Teeworlds - development

Teeworlds

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For discussions around the development of the official Teeworlds

Between 2020-09-19 00:00:00Z and 2020-09-20 00:00:00Z

[teeworlds/teeworlds] Issue opened: #2746 Custom text window(s) for interactive help for mods

Problem: complex mods like infClass have a steep learning curve and a new player have a hard time to get game mechanics and even the basics. Currently most of players leave because they don't get what's going on and are too frustrated and overloaded with game events they don't get. This strikes a retention of complex mods like infClass and infNext very hard. Most modern games, complex and even very simple ones have interactive help or onboarding interactive tutorials of some kind and it re...

are we turning the game into an engine?

i don't hope so

Well, there are gameplay issues too, like Water

doggo_lol

indeed

(Therefore I encourage commenting on that)

i have nothing more to say about that personally

what @Sonix said, teeworlds is not a game engine

maybe such issue could have benefits for non-mods?

how so?

14:34

I mean, I think some more flexibility would be nice, but you can't expect teeworlds to implement all your specific needs, like implementing a window dialog protocol

hmmm... not sure. but @Deleted User, you should try to theorize how it could help out vanilla too (the issue)

sounds far fetched on this one

I mean, I think some more flexibility would be nice, but you can't expect teeworlds to implement all your specific needs, like implementing a window dialog protocol

just allow moving MOTD?

14:38

OK, I haven't expected much/any support on this from teeworlds. Teeworlds is not for mods after all.

14:38

Thanks for your feedback

there isn't really a reason to move motd window too. since it is "message of the day" not "message of the moment". and the cursor wont allow you to move it anyway, because when motd is showing you only have your in game cursor which it clamped (and not even in screen space)

I don't mean to move it by a player iteraction in a client. I mean allow server to place it on client screen. (edited)

14:43

I am not about to implement X window system in teeworlds, no.

for motd?

I haven't started it with a MOTD. I've falled back to MOTD enhancing because you don't want to implement anything else.

14:44

Not you personally ofc.

14:44

Anyway I've got feedback, and got the message. Thanks for a discussion anyway.

14:45

I will not bother dev team with more requests.

14:45

but you can't expect teeworlds to implement all your specific needs

yeah, right, I've started with "implement all my specific needs" right

14:46

Thanks, I don't want to turn it to a drama and the message was clear.

teeworlds is not a game engine

14:46

= it's not for mods. I've just thought something might have changed. Asked here just to be sure I don't miss an opportunity.

14:47

Seems that everything is ok.

personally, i believe modding is about utilizing constraint.

14:48

not only for teeworlds

14:48

for any games.

Nice for you

14:49

I don't want to continue, really

for real tho, if you want a full fledged experience, deviate from teeworlds is usually the way to go. that is exactly what ddnet and nodes did.

teeworlds is not a game engine also means, that the game just lacks a lot of stuff that mods might want to use. The whole game is tailored for vanilla needs and changing this is a lot of work. It's probably easier to use a full featured game engine like godot or unity. If you start adding such stuff to tw you never end. And to not have a big mess of compatibility code at the end, you would need a compatibility break for each new feature.

godot is lit tho (edited)

to clear some misunderstandings as well, Teeworlds actively supported and helped modding through its development. For example, if broadcast was brought back in the game at all (+ colors), that's almost solely for mods

even ddnet only adds the stuff they really need. If you base your mod on it you can use ddnet features, but it's not like they offer a huge framework for modding.

14:56

Other than tw they try to keep compatibility at any cost though... not sure if that's a good idea

they have more dedicated ppl to maintain compat codes. they will be fine

doesn't it just stack a technical debt? at some point you have to break and clean up imo

still i don't get it... they basically support vanilla 0.6, and any version of ddnet that was ever released. Just to keep a ton of ugly code

I just don't get why you get so defensive against my request. 2 people commented against it before actually reading it just on reflexes.

thinkeyes

15:00

i was giving suggestions you can do right now

All those suggestions were mentioned in original ticket body already. Its a sign for me nobody have read it.

old 0.7 clients would not support it though

That's not a problem at all.

it is as many people don't update

And that's not a problem at all.

there are still a lot people with < 0.7.3 around

thinkeyes

Nice, but that's too not a problem at all as they will just not get something optional.

15:02

And I can ask them to install 0.7.6 or anything if they wanted it.

that means you have a different experience for different players

We support older ddnet because people get very annoying when their 10 year old client doesn't work and the new one adds something they don't like

I have it already.

i mean i cant say for dune. but it is pretty common for me to reply after light skimming.

Nice for you.

10 months would be okay > 2 years is not

my problem is i cant read english that long

15:03

thinkeyes

15:03

is it pretty headache inducing

15:04

for me

Ok, it doesn't matter now.

I was playing a game at the same time and thought while reading the notification that you didn't know about the MOTD hack as it seems to answer the problem quite well. Sorry for that, I'll slash away my comment

Don't delete please.

fwiw, I don't think ddnet will get "netgui" either, it's a really meh bolted on thing imho

It would be useful for people who skim too.

I said slash ;)

Not you, Dune.

15:06

Not more bolted than a SkinChange message.

15:07

I don't feel like argumenting in pro of this because I think that reasons that prevent you from viewing this issue from other side for a moment are not about arguments.

15:07

Everyone tired of this project and lack of devs and lack of players.

15:08

So everyone seems to be just burned up already for any additions.

15:08

That's what I think.

thinkeyes

Except for you @TsFreddie you're new I know it

15:08

But you're inheriting this mentality too I guess.

well i guess the addition of race support and CJK characters wasnt additons.

Being defensive against proposals on reflexes.

15:09

Not a big deal. I am not a person to teach you. You're all mature.

15:09

I am too, I can just get it as it is.

it seems like you're taking the opportunity to rant about teeworlds not being friendly enough to mods yet @Learath2 just mentionned ddnet wouldn't be too keen on implementing netgui stuff either. Would you say ddnet is not mod-friendly either then?

I've got my try and a result. It's ok.

15:10

I don't want to rant. Don't continue this and you will not get responses.

15:10

I've stated I've got everything I need already.

15:11

It's nice we have developers that are doing their work in a declining stage of this project.

15:11

I respect your work.

15:11

Also I cannot change DNA of this project too and I am not stupid to try.

again, nobody is dev.

^

Every contributor is a dev. Come on.

adding one window with text is of really limited use. It would fulfill your needs now, but it's not flexible. The solution would be a netgui, but most people here seem to agree, that this is a hard task. At least if you try to do it right (edited)

Thanks everybody.

15:12

And I mean it. Thanks for your time discussing it. I just don't feel I need more. (edited)

@TsFreddie your english is pretty good with no noticeable flaws though. how long have you been out of china?

5 i think

damn, that's crazy good

15:15

unless you're 6 years old

i mean i've been using english way before i left china for college

15:16

mostly thanks to teeworlds? reading forums taught me a lot.

Everyone tired of this project and lack of devs and lack of players.

@Deleted User tbh, having talked to many & read many posts, I feel like there indeed is a 'degree of pessimism' within the community

thinkup

well i too wish we can just add stuff without consequences, so we don't even need to discuss about it. but that's not how the project works.

15:32

although it seems i'm not helping much in terms of discussion.

I have a question. When is a "design discussion" resolved?

when oy says so

where is oy from? his profile is so mysterious. (edited)

"oy" isn't from anywhere. He is a mystical being that has "always" existed

olways

oyways

I find a hypothesis of oy being a merge bot less disturbing tbh.

i knew it.

15:43

i always believed he's a merge bot

15:44

~~was he even a he~~

unless you're 6 years old

~~wait a sec, did that mean i sound like a 6yo~~

@Stiopa hey, would you look a that

16:42

i'm excited

@TsFreddie I too am hoped

17:48

Hopeful

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