Teeworlds - general

Teeworlds

discord.gg/teeworlds / general

Teeworlds Discord Server.

Between 2020-08-14 00:00:00Z and 2020-08-15 00:00:00Z

Deleted User joined the server. 2020-08-14 11:51:08Z

A simple question: are there any features upcoming in 0.8 that are aiming at boosting teeworlds popularity?

no

13:05

xD

Like giving the game more freedom to mod so modders could use teeworlds almost as a general purpose 2d game engine.

13:06

it's 2020 and modders stills make custom entities from laser.

13:06

and server still cannot update fully custom graphics for skins from a server

13:07

though engine is mature and capable enough to make this possible

13:08

imagine tw where modders could add interactable objects like real doors, gizmos, NPCs to the game

13:09

and it's not just a lack of server code, current tw client is so restricting that I could not just make red eyes for a skin (edited)

13:09

cause it reverts to black in some cases ruining my idea (temporary daemon posession) (edited)

13:10

also imagine battlefield mod had real vehicles that would look like an actual thing and also didn't have to fight prediction on client side moving objects with a player or a player to custom trajectories (edited)

13:11

are there people who still capable or want to do something like that? I know that's tw is declining, but we can slow this down

13:14

even just adding ability to turn off prediction for some objects or characters from server side would be a step forward

13:14

or adding linear trajectories to the game instead of parabolic ones

teeworlds is beyond help

13:16

not sure at which point you joined into teeworlds

I've been here for 10 years

13:17

though casually

13:17

any linux distro had tw in a repository

so this was a go-to game to kill some time and gain some skill (edited)

13:21

I see newcomers every week even in my very niche mod. That's not "teeworlds is beyond help" (edited)

13:22

we still have devs with in depth knowledge of a project and very skillfuls modders community

"devs" Oy that blocked development for years
certain gamemode that "destroyed" teeworlds / includes some of our ddos boys here

(edited)

13:24

certain someone that brought shit to 0.7

13:24

ever since the ddos shitshow started on 0.6 the game died really quick

13:24

and I see the comeback now on 0.7

thanks for clarifications. Are all those factors still there?

13:30

or we can just do something if we'd found right people who wanted to implement and test something new?

13:30

is something blocking us now?

Oy is really slow, works occasionally nowdays (edited)

is it still a blocking factor?

13:37

is he the only person who can approve PRs?

yea

what about bugfixes on #development ?

13:41

who merges them?

Oy

1

so if anyone wanted to do something completely new and fast he would better go to DDNet or fork 0.7, right?

what about a dark mode (edited)

what is it?

what do you mean?

I guess that maybe a joke on that almost pointless feature request devs get too often from some folks

14:45

some websites have night mode

"imagine tw where modders could add interactable objects like real doors, gizmos, NPCs to the game"

14:57

@Deleted User asked that mostly 1year ago

14:57

still waiting :v

Oy is doing much better nowadays, more friendly towards mods too from what I've seen

sorry for such a noob question but why is Oy taking charge? is he an original game author or just a current maintainer

is he Magnus Auvinen from license.txt?

no

Nope. That's matricks, the original author. He had a very concrete vision of the game and he explicitly said that teeworlds does not support mods. He then left the game and handed it over to oy. Why him? Because he has a similar mentality about this "vision". "Keep it simple stupid"

15:57

That was many years ago and as learath said, today he's more mod friendly but that still does not mean that there will be big, new features that are not used in vanilla.

16:01

On the technical side: the game is designed to do what's needed for vanilla. Many things are hardcoded, very minimal and not really flexible. You want to have a general online 2d network enging? That needs quite some work and restructuring. I doubt that will ever happen.

FoxyF joined the server. 2020-08-14 16:02:58Z

And consider one thing: most of that code was written more than 10 years ago. Some features were added, bugs fixed, but is still far away what you expect from an engine today. There is basically no tools for example, no docs ...

16:04

Better start from scratch or use an existing engine

when teeworlds in UE5?

Launch title

@redix pretty sure that would attract more people if teeworlds supports all of that

18:04

a general online 2d network enging? That needs quite some work and restructuring. I doubt that will ever happen.

I just need some features. "Almost" a general purpose game engine, but not actually. Like linear predictions, turning off them, movable interactable sprites and so on. (edited)

@Deleted User @redix matricks made bluesky after handing head of development to Oy, so I'm pretty sure he was favorable to this sort of ideas. Some 0.7 features were exclusively introduced for mods. The "not supporting mods" meme is about Teeworlds not being responsible for what mods do

I am still fighting with eyes color on some skins it fallsback to black on some body colors (edited)

18:06

18:07

modding is fighting in tw

18:07

I wish that could be changed somehow

I agree skin modding got worse, not on purpose though

@Dune thanks for commandmanager and protocol change, good things x)

there are 200-300 SLOC about validating eyes color on client. That's crazy

@gerdoe none of my doings

and some heavy math and magic numbers in it

about whole community ofc

@Deleted User because it's very abuseable

modding is abusing

sure, but you don't want people having unfair advantages in CTF because of skin modding, especially that you don't need to install those skins to see them now

it's eyes only

18:09

how can it be abused to an advantage (edited)

same color as skin

18:09

looks strange

^

I understand that

18:10

but still no way to turn it off from server itself

invisible eyes should never be a thing

they're not invisible. medium-quadtratic distance is 80.0f

18:10

it's really high

yes, but without that code, they could be

18:11

I understand everything. But I'd wish some 0.7 client existed which would support more tunings from a server (edited)

18:12

to turn off prediction, to turn off eyes validations, to update clan tag w/o hacks and so on

18:12

all things which stands on the way to make trivial and minor but useful modifications

18:13

we have skin updates from a server, this is nice! but we don't have client info updates

18:13

so we have to fake quiet leaves

18:14

this trick is working, thanks god. But it's so restrictive in general (edited)

18:15

many modders do same tricks to make something work -- like send random fake tunings params or fake disconnects

18:15

I'd wished some tutorials/repos on that would exist

18:15

with documented caveats at the very least (edited)

18:16

I've even had idea of some package manager for modders. So they could install mods on vanilla from it

18:16

with hacks already done

18:17

or to make updates from upstream easier

But I'd wish some 0.7 client existed which would support more tunings from a server

Yeah, I'm with you there

Also as I've said, I still struggle to get those fake settings to work and I don't know why they don't

18:17

I've talked with every person who implemented that on 0.6 or 0.7 and doing the same

18:18

spend 4 days on debugging the client

18:24

still don't have an idea why this code is working for them not me

18:24

I will learn everything eventually. But still this is a hard way of modding for an opensource game (edited)

18:25

Maybe I will start a wiki for modders to write anything I know as I learn (edited)

question; can I make a .cfg file autoexecuted when changing to a certain map

if you're a modder you can just add code to execute a file after a map change (edited)

18:30

and split configuration to two files -- common parameters that could not be changed (like server name, port to listen) and map specific

18:30

infCroya even has lua autoloading for a map

18:30

though there is no need in infCroya to use lua. Yaml would do just as good

well, that requires extra work, so if there is a way I can do it without more changes I want to exploit it :d

I am not a tw expert, but afaik the config is loaded once (edited)

18:32

if you could modularize it that would be cool (edited)

18:32

so someone could reuse this

18:33

we need a modding recipes library/wiki/repo

18:33

I can give a paid notion.so workspace for that to anyone who will add things to it (edited)

make the map change command two commands separated by ;?

^this add_vote "ctf5" "change_map ctf5; exec my_ctf5_config.cfg"

Image attachment

20:02

"vanilla" is the only 0.7 server only @Assa

20:02

everything else is bridged

no, what about gctf and catch64 for example?

not in the top

20:04

bridged servers are dominating the 0.7 serverbrowser

20:04

the vanilla server is temporarily up in the top with players

true, but it's not 0.6 servers only containing players

I'm fine if it's 2 or 3 servers but cmon

20:06

whole "Network"

I think 0.7 would be dead if you wouldn't allow the bridge

take ddnet out of tw

20:08

without ddnet, teeworlds could move onto 0.7

Why should you do smth like that?

20:12

0.6 and 0.7 bridge is a good thing, more players

for whom?

20:13

vanilla is the only scene that moved to 0.7

20:13

everyone else stayed back at 0.6

20:14

ddnet just massivly overthrows the browser with servers and players, new players will be mostly play ddnet (edited)

20:14

or get stuck at the worst "mod" map in this game called block

Not everyone wants to play vanilla

20:14

Where is the problem

tw is fking dead of mods

20:15

just only ddnet nowdays

20:15

ictf dead

And btw. vanilla was anyways already dead, before anyone did a bridge srv

vanilla dead only played by coreplayers

20:16

fng only casual plebs that I laught at

20:16

not sure about zcatch 1server? (edited)

20:17

were is kog, panic, infection ball etc.

20:17

all dead

@ShootXen PMed you invite to infection server

20:18

not official one

on 0.7 start many players played vanilla

20:18

for half of month maybe

20:19

and... ddnet came

20:19

also modders have no reason for porting/making new mod to/on 0.7

I have a reason. It's a recent one. It's on steam and in any linux repo (edited)

one reason for making 0.7 mod is new community

20:21

no more

also modders have no reason for porting/making new mod to/on 0.7

DoSes?

20:21

0.7 fixed vulnerabilities by reworking the protocol

20:22

I'd liked to add a 0.6 compatibility layer but I don't want to end up as @fokkonaut fighting DoSes

Kappa

1

rei you dont say anything

feelspepoman

2

okey, second reason, but its good for hostings

@ShootXen why tho :v

u know why (edited)

I'm not the one attacking

porting may sometimes be hard until gerdoe comes along and saves you your sanity <3

@Deleted User those are good ideas, they just need a lot of work

we just need http masters

20:24

would already solve lots of things

@Deleted User if we would talk about clear 0.7, without any bridges - yes

even if it was me @ShootXen why would I send that to my own server

root@pvm1:~# vnstat -l -i eno1
Monitoring eno1...    (press CTRL-C to stop)

   rx:   756.68 Mbit/s 930261 p/s          tx:    12.57 Mbit/s  7157 p/s

20:24

@Dune also some plan and coordination, yes

20:24

cause right now things added staying on mods or hackclients

return 0.5 with patches

of course, but it's also several months long work, and requires quite some skill too

@ShootXen + http masters is not enough, on server & client smth has to be done

people that are this skilled rarely have this much time

Too bad I have near zero expertise in C++

20:25

which doesn't prevent me to add shitty code to my infCroya fork (edited)

is Oy on the discord server?

IRC only

@Stiopa no

20:26

he's on IRC sometimes

real shame

it's good actually

20:26

because people would start to annoy him (edited)

IRC is ok

I guess that's true

it's not much harder than discord

@Deleted User I don't think it matters too much. Most of Teeworlds is just C :P

Oy 0.8 when?

@Dune I mean C/C++

@Stiopa why would you want a compatibilty break

I am a rubyist

20:27

with some basic knowledge of other languages

20:27

0.7 is already a compatibility break

I'm just joking around about having faster updates :d

yeah, for good reasons

still has been done badly, things could be better I think

20:28

but well, people recognize it now

limited manpower

too bad no one written tutorial on how to migrate 0.6 mod server to 0.7

20:28

and no docs exists

at least teeworlds is an open source repository so updating side by side is not that difficult

@Deleted User there's complete commits for that

@Deleted User here's the tutorial: download 0.7 sources and rewrite it

@Deleted User ah u mean that, thought about implementing the proto

just merge an 8 year old code into 0.7 5head

20:29

(that's what I tried and I cried)

I've failed to merge 100 commits from 0.7.5 to 0.7.4 mod server

20:29

0.7 will be released in 2015 Kappa

Kappa

2014

saw 2015 once

maybe im wrong

we all've seen some shit

20:30

maybe if 0.7 came way before, people would not be on 0.6

0.7 needed more gameplay addition

20:30

and more mature in release

0.8 will be released on mars exclusively as part of spaceX colony program

0.7 is full of bridged DDNet servers

Sooo..... bridges are EXIST!

we had a network break from 7.3 -> 7.4

20:31

if I remeber correctly

20:31

or was it from 2 to 3? (edited)

masterban bridges on 0.7 :troll:

well, gameplay additions... gameplay additions... (edited)

20:33

what to add onto the gameplay? new powerups like ninja?

actually I don't see any big diff on that side so

@ShootXen I don't remember that

make ninslash 2.0

many consider the core gameplay to be pretty good, and I can't disagree

I mean there was a update with the networkcode on 0.7

20:34

@Dune

7.3 - 7.4

ninslash is a bit overklill imo with all the particle effects but there are awesome things like slopes and liquid simulation which would be awesome to have in TW as well

liquids

also huh 45° walls

20:37

that omg

@ShootXen only backwards compatible changes afaik

1

20:38

there were some functional slope implementations on 0.6

20:38

I was told that didn't turn out well, but wasn't there to try

ah slope is the word xdd

vector based maps with interactive objects!

will be never a thing in teeworlds

flexible map structure!

grenade impacting the map

https://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/tutorials/make-a-splash-with-dynamic-2d-water-effects--gamedev-236

Make a Splash With Dynamic 2D Water Effects

Sploosh! In this tutorial, I'll show you how you can use simple math, physics, and particle effects to simulate great looking 2D water waves and droplets. Note: Although this tutorial is written...

20:43

something like this for water would be awesome

20:43

and then have diving physics to the tee

just allow adding custom sprites and animate them

20:44

NES hardware could do that

20:45

it was all about managing sprites and generations of games arisen from this very basic feature

20:45

we can have custom sprites only engraved into map tiles and cannot programmaticaly create a manageable entity which uses this sprite

20:46

would be supercool if not only very limiting skinned tees and built in projectiles were physical objects in game

20:46

but any sprite would, nice if animated, but ok if not

20:47

any NES game could be recreated perfectly on top of that

20:47

only prediction could be disable-able for that custom objects for smooth

20:48

or just adding a linear one, like trajectory

20:48

currently on mods everything is made from laser beams or powerups which teleports every tick from a server

20:48

there is no linear motion in fact and client doesn't make this movement too smooth

20:48

sometimes fighting with that

20:49

battlefield mod for me was the most glorious attempt to break rules and limitations of teeworlds limited game system

20:49

and it sucked cause client struggled with a server

20:49

and it looked awful

that needs unify networkcode afaik

but it was SO playable

teeworlds is not a game engine :p

remember the lua rewrite back in 0.6?

no?..

20:52

i had lua courses 2y ago and my teacher said that teeworlds written on lua

20:52

with love engine

I've seen lua in infCroya and hated it instantly

20:53

no 2d arrays even

20:53

and matrixes are not the same thing

20:53

much complexity out of nothing

20:56

teeworlds is not a game engine :p

teeworlds is a game engine, see all the mods

not teeworlds maybe...

just a very limited one

it has own engine xd

ok

like basement of whatever you want to make

that's just wording

ok ok

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