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Between 2020-02-04 00:00:00Z and 2020-02-05 00:00:00Z

aaand more ragequit. you guys need to fix the fucking balance, if you're still talking about programming this game. :P

02:39

it's not fun to get 3 kills and then the rest of the players leave server. I hate it on the 'pro' side just as much as on the noob side of getting ass handed to me by people with, what, 10+ years of reflexes honed by practice?

02:39

come on

02:39

fix this shit

02:41

put in SOME kind of balancing, this shit of "3 players have over 100 score and the rest under 10" is CLEAR EVIDENCE that there is a need to account for the different skill levels of players :P

02:44

also ChillerDragon I like your server but I'm sick as fuck of ctf5

02:44

:P

02:44

(relevant because it's the only reliable server to play on!)

This was discussed before

03:55

Accounts cant be implemented without a proper server

03:58

From my point of view separating players is a bad idea, this is supossed to be a FAST paced shooter,

03:59

noobs are slow, they should catch up, and will do, eventually. separating noobs and pros wont help, no one said this was an easy game

skayland, if you think accounts are the thing I want out of this then I'm not communicating clearly because I don't want that at all or think it's of benefit in a game without players because it has no balance

05:26

FURTHER I ALSO do NOT want player separation

05:26

I want advanced and new players to be able to play together in a way that at least is not so infuriating as to constantly drive both to ragequit or borequit

05:27

TLDR what I ACTUALLY WANT is some kind of HP and armor max value adjustment, based on kill/death streak averages

05:27

ie, you CAN TELL DYNAMICALLY BY SCORE who's the advanced player, they do this thing where they do ALL THE SCORING

05:28

it's not uncommon to see 3 or more tiers of player in a game, the 2% who've played the whole time and get 100's of points and are impossible to play against, and who will be impossible to play against even if you can one shot them, because they'll never let you hit them

05:29

and then there's the 96% of the players who can basically play CTF and hold their own

05:29

and then there's some noobs, who tend to either get good fast or to not stick around.

05:31

and, adjusting by streak, means even players keep roughly even amounts of hp and armor through the game, as it is now- and the nerfing happens for the noobs that need it, and the assholes that only want full HP and armor to be able to rocket jump across any map in three rockets without having to get health.

I wonder if reducing armor/heart pickups can have a similar effect

i see a million loopholes to counter JewZeus proposed solutions :P

08:56

suicide to reset the killstreak

08:56

quit/rejoin

08:56

stop killing all together and go for flags

08:59

rocket jumping is a requirement, the game would be dirtslow without it. i guess you could reduce the self damage to 1, but then nades would be even more viable in melee range than they already are

github is not the correct place for gameplay discussion, but I don't find any thread on the forum about it

11:46

JewZeus, Choscura: could you make a thread on teeworlds forum ?

Development

day the rocket jump thing, the advanced players have SO MANY options for going fast, and can get health on the jump too, and the CURRENT SPEED of gameplay means I literally have to rocket jump, catch up, GET AHEAD of the advanced player, fire AHEAD of them, and hope that the lag means by the time they get to my rocket, it has spawned and can hit them.

12:56

so, lol, whatever the hell your concept of "you need to be going 900 mph with grenades" thing is, just doesn't wash. You made a game that's better as ddrace because of that stuff.

12:57

Also, yes, dickhead players CAN kill themselves, but the thing is, they'll have to keep doing that to keep undoing their score

12:57

and the ctf thing, we can treat score streak like kill streak

13:03

oh yeah, one other thing that would also help add some balance day, and deal with your dickhead player problem at the same time, give credit for grappling hook in contact with falling player or in contact when player hits spikes.

rand I'll try to get an account made and start a thread and lay this out today

JewZeus: i still think it is too slow :| or hooking to easy.

15:47

there are multiple issues, but tbh. I don't really know how to fix them either without causing new issues.

15:49

however punishing players who are good can't be good. moba's simply do the opposite, they reward players who kill good players. the the play modes (ctf,dm, etc.) make this difficult to implement. like what would be a tangible reward?

15:50

in ctf points are meaningless. in dm i guess you could assign points to players based on their streaks, however this simply will lead to players purposely ending their streaks (lol has or had this problem afair)

15:53

i guess you could spawn bad players with armor, or even some weapons. that wouldnt really hurt the overall gameplay

that would probably be gamebreaking in competitive games on smaller maps though, where the attackers always have terrible kdr's. at some point the defense will likely not have enough firepower to even kill them :D

A peak level player doesnt need to use grenade to be fast or score points, and doesnt need to rjjump more to get ahead the enemy

16:56

Once noobs get tired of gettin hit in the face they’ll start to used their head hopefully and read enemy moves

16:57

The fittest should rise above and not the dumb ones with game play helps

17:00

I agree and i know vanilla could use some more balance improvements and overall improve matchups

17:00

But i also dont want to dumb it down

"the fittest should rise above"... and the rest will stop playing

17:43

not sure if that's what we want

i didnt say nor mean ditch the rest and let them ragequit

18:44

matchmaking would help in that case

18:45

which is, i believe, possible even without accounts

18:46

to better say, "i hope"

I see, how would you prevent very good players from sabotaging lower level matches?

why would they even do that?

18:54

lesser rewards on lower level games if you're high level

18:56

then "smurfs" and things related to that are common issues in every game i believe you cant do much about it

sure but I don't think many people would care much about basically glorified server levels

matchmaking would probably be a better approach than trying to balance a running game but most of the time there are just not enough players to fill more than one ctf server =\

even if there were, I'm not sure how you'd do matchmaking that splits per level

19:53

how do you do anything that isn't basically glorified server levels

to be honest... balancing a shooter is kinda hard. even big commercial games with matchmaking and extensive statistical data fail to create balanced games

most big commercial shooter games have mandatory accounts, that makes it easy to do a proper ladder/matchmaking

19:55

it's also less of an issue when the game is young, because the average playtime of people is much lower and the skill gap is much easier to bridge

19:55

telling people to "just get better now" would mean to catch up with years of trainings

just adding some scaling of the armor / health might completely fail. There should definitely be some tests before adding something like this to the game. Solo attacking with max 5+5 hp on ctf5 when rest of your team is just camping the flag would be really frustrating. Just as an example where this might create some problems

Yeah

20:00

My approach to the problem would just be to make the game fun without having to be in the top 30% of the server

20:00

anyone joining teeworlds now or coming back casually has no shot at that

waiting for anyone to implement BalancedCTF mod

I doubt any significant change to the vanilla gameplay would go through without backslash, it has fossilized in everyone's minds at this point

starting by reverse weakhook so that people that dies a lot get a better hook

not enough players (servers with players) to do proper match making

yeah

because noobs rageguit because of poor balancing !

I think most newcomers do a few games then stick to PvE

20:05

I'm positively surprised at how many newcomers we still get though

well, kinda hard when u can't move with the hook

oh yeah, I remember taking forever to get the hang of the thing :D

thing you can't learn properly with ennemies

I think the newbie ddrace maps barely use hook?

(in a short span)

I guess there aren't that many polished games that run well on linux/toasters

we need server bots, then people could learn with easier enemies

if the server gets a bit of traction, then some regular player will come in and destroy them, though

20:08

so it'd have to be PvE?

could be server bots on a server started locally from client

local practice with bots yeah

oh

20:09

not sure if that's fun if you can't play wiht friends though

20:09

and hosting a server is hard

the idea is to start a party from client, that spawn a server on map X with Y bots on game mode Z

then there should be an ingame "create local server" ui and all that comes with servers configuration

yeah but without port forwarding, meh

its local

yeah

ah bots right

20:10

cant connect

wrote a feature like that back in the days, people used it to test maps they made and that's it afaik

20:11

well no bots, nvm

don't have to be local

20:12

think newcomers liked the royal bot server back in 0.6

oh, right

20:14

they were terrible iirc :)

good enough

20:18

hardcoded path + waypoint to camp somtimes

20:18

server side bots don't need to connect

camp the flag.

newcomers aren't good either, just need someone to play and learn it that way

jxsl13: that is a simple enough to get a bot that defends the flag

that was ctf criticism.

isn't defending a part of ctf ?

but yeah, might be a good approach for a server side ctf training mod with bots

20:24

or ask chilli for his client bot to be added to some more servers if he likes. the bot's not overpowered and is still fun to play against.

yeah I meant they were positively terrible

20:45

but client bots shouldn't be the preferred option to get CTF with bots :( they don't integrate well with teeworlds (player count, skins)

server side bots are at a standstill on my side

20:49

last thing about bot is a attempt to add a lua API to the server codebase in order to prototype simple bots mechanics

@Dune sv_maprotation test/test test/test2 is not working for me :C

I doubt folders work

ffolders work with sv_map

22:17

and change_map

try "test/test" "test/test2"

22:32

was the delimiting character a space or a ; ?

22:33

I'd test the behaviour without the subfolders first, if that works as expected, continue to subfolder stuff.

the quotes won't work

outrageous

22:34

xD

delimiting character is just space

22:58

like in the above not working example

23:00

add_vote "afternoon" "sv_map test/test" is working

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