Teeworlds - bridge

Teeworlds

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One-way IRC channel bridge. If you want to be able to send messages to IRC, contact @Dune or @heinrich5991. https://www.teeworlds.com/?page=docs&wiki=rules/irc_rules

Between 2020-02-01 00:00:00Z and 2020-02-02 00:00:00Z

@Assa way overkill imo :(

so I think I have a reasonable idea for how to do balancing in this game so it is better than this no-balancing or balancing-programmed-by-hedgehog, and basically my thought is that each player has a "max armor/health" variable that is changed by player kill streak

05:40

so basically if you ARE CURRENTLY ON a kill streak your armor + health can drop to some certain minimum, I think a good baseline is probably 5 each so you can actually be one-shot killed, because that's the only way to make it fair against the fucking 10

05:40

-year-veteran DDRACE players

05:40

so this is clear this is NOT a game mode suggestion, this is a way to fix this dogshit fairness situation

05:41

or at least, a proposed starting point of trying to fix how dogshit the balancing/fairness is in this :D

05:42

also corollary idea, if you're on a negative streak/death streak, maybe it's fair to nerf-up the noobs who aren't going to hit anybody anyway

05:42

up to 15/15 health/armor

@JewZeus you should open an issue about this topic on github

@Dune ???

10:41

ah the namespace

rand: no gameplay issues on github, they become very messy :/

11:00

Btw it would mean that dying regularly is necessary to be a flagger

oops, my bad

i made a mistake: a process spawning 10 workers, but each worker spawning 10 more workers ...

Dune, it basically needs that adjustment, but the mechanism of it also nerfs up the noob players in CTF so they stand a few more hits

16:41

-5 armor/health or +5 health armor if you get on a losing streak

16:41

I mean, at this point its a lot of people letting kids play type stuff too

Well why do players tend to try to make games easy nowdays? If you are Bad and die a lot that just means to get better

17:20

Also all those good vanilla players are not playing ctf5(no really often)

17:22

The evolution of "games" and "players" are just a joke, compared to 15years ago

17:23

Games which doesnt require a brain are mostly mainstream

Agree with shootxen

I agree with the sentiment but I think Teeworlds is ill-equipped to be a competitive game and achieves the "casual community game" pretty well

shootXen, this whining about people "trying to make the game easy" does not fit. There's a clear need for this, because the MOST COMMON order of events on a game server is 1 long-term empty server gets a player, 2) a second, usually more advanced player also joins, 3) the more advanced player swings around and the newer player can't play the game effectively until they 4) ragequit and leave an EMPTY SERVER AGAIN

21:20

making a game that induces rage-quitting means you are inducing players to not-play. none of the physics have to change, I don't want to nerf the game so it's not fun for the advanced players, but fuck, if you can get a 5-kill streak in this game, basically you don't need full health and full armor

that's why a training ground/mod could be a nice improvement for teeworlds

no

21:21

insufficient

21:22

it's unreasonable to demand the average player sink 50 hours of learning JUST TO PLAY

21:22

that's stupid

I strongly disagree with the unfair solution you are stating

what is unfair?

21:23

come on, be specific, "if you're on a killing streak you have less HP, if you're on a dying streak you have more HP"

21:23

I won't say this is a perfect solution?

I find this idea interesting as well

21:23

it gives some more challenge to the pros, even

but it's better than this "oh lets just treat the 10 year veterans and the 10 minute noobs as equals"

21:24

because, they fucking aren't

making harder for tees to survive

yes

this is already the case

harder for SKILLED tees to survive

21:24

but only on in-game data

21:24

not even server records

then, newbies will die on second hit

no they won't

21:25

the noobs get the extra HP

some sort of autobalancing sounds isn't too bad, I think, rand

then starting a killing streak

yeah, and then de-nerf a bit

and loosing their advantage

yes

and then re-nerf as they die more

it shouldn't apply capgames ofc

so dying just aftes

it's not like any of these are 1-life games?

21:26

I mean some ddrace maps

21:26

but not the vanilla game

this is only about delaying the frustration

why won't you entertain the idea at all, rand?

the delaying of the frustration is what lets a new player get better for a little while longer

ilj

instead of moving on to a less-frustrating game, of which we are in the middle of a rennaissance, perhaps y'all have also noticed

21:28

this game has staying power, it is a good game, but the fairness basically doesn't exist, and the 10 years of reflexes basically give some players what may as well be cheat mode from the other side of the learning curve

21:29

I've only played since december? and I'm already making people ragequit. I don't mind this handicap on myself.

21:30

I want people to have fun, so that they'll play and I can fucking well play with them. that's why this needs fairness.

one would have to see whether these mechanics can be abused though

they probably can, I don't think they're so suitable for 1v1 matches, especially of equally skilled players

21:31

but in general? on a 2v2 ctf, and every scale above that? I think it works

21:31

in a 1v1 of a noob vs pro, I think it has potential to work also

21:31

somebody gets ahead and their HP is down by the amount they are ahead by

21:31

etc

I don't think community issue should be handled by changing the gameplay

21:40

while autobalancing could bu improved by better statistics on player

21:40

in teambased game I mean

is it a community issue if I want to play against lower-skilled players and have fun?

ctf = camp the flag >:D

it would be cool if it was possible, don't you think?

That's called smurfing, a term I also learned of recently :o.

my experience is: quit when noobs are playing, level down when it's interesting enough, do my best when there are better player

rand: some games have casual modes that bend the gameplay to make it less frustrating for newbies

21:43

newcomer retention is an issue :(

basically, play when it is fun/challenging

I guess rand is right with, old pro players should learn when to "level down", in order to make the game more appealing for new players.

Dune: are we talking about vanilla ?

Yes

21:45

I guess iCTF was a casual mode in a way back in the days

21:45

I don't like changing the gameplay based on your K:D, but I don't think the general idea is so bad

I liked dune's (implicit) idea of putting it in another gametype

my point is, this is not suited for current vanilla gametype

21:47

my opinion

21:48

but I do think it could be and should be tested as a mod

21:50

training mod/stuff should be implemented to though

rand part of the reason the training stuff is fundamentally not an actual solution is that muscle memory is built up by successive repitition, over thousands of iterations, and there is no reasonable way to put a player through that other than making the game fun enough to play that they'll play it

21:53

I'm not against "raw mode" for advanced players or something, but this game is very unforgiving of the noobs who should be staying and hanging out, getting better

21:54

I mean, for fucks sake, there's slither.io that's been out for 5 years unchanged despite this also being a generic category of game now

21:54

mass play the whole time, because it's so accessible via browser

21:55

but there's teenet as a thing that existed for a minute? this game can do that stuff, but it has to be welcoming enough to new players that they stay

trainging repeating stuff to actually be better right after

22:01

*training

meh

bunch of games start with a tutorial or something to get the mechanics of the game

22:03

*training is about repeating...

I think all new multiplayer games have some way of equalizing the skill amongst players

the main mechanics I see is to avoid disbalanced games

22:06

because players are ranked

plus comeback mechanics

22:07

e.g. in dota

22:07

you get more gold for kills if you're behind

well, I want to be able to switch out comptuers with my kids in a lan party, type going-by-current-score dynamics

22:51

which is part of why I think the way to do it by score

22:52

<also to avoid confusion? I use two different screen names on IRC, one's a pi that's basically text only and one's to be able to check media links and such, I'm also JewZeus>

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