Teeworlds - bridge

Can we end to end encrypt whisper? To make sure the server owner can’t read it even on a modded server?

I don't see why not

11:27

You could prototype that with a client mod actually

It should be possible to fallback to clear text with a warning on failed encryption I guess . For older clients.

So how do you know which key to encrypt with if you don't trust the server? You'll exchange it out of band?

Im not much into coding, but if you dont send they key trough the server and instead send directly to the other player, could that lead to player ip leaks?

im no crypto exper what so ever. How do other systems do it where they advertise end to end encryption without trusting the server. Like whatsapp.

13:01

I thought of exchanging public keys over whisper before sending the messages.

trust on first use, usually

Yea i guess send a test message and see if it was encrypted with the correct public key. To make sure the server didnt send his own public key,

i.e. you store someones pubkey the first time you talk to them and then make sure it's the same one for future messages

sounds possible to me

you could just use OTR

13:05

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-the-Record_Messaging

Off-the-Record Messaging

Off-the-Record Messaging (OTR) is a cryptographic protocol that provides encryption for instant messaging conversations. OTR uses a combination of AES symmetric-key algorithm with 128 bits key length, the Diffie–Hellman key exchange with 1536 bits group size, and the SHA-1 ...

13:06

it's designed to add a layer of encryption to existing IM protocols

Sounds like the server could send a false pubkey and forward cleartext to the sendee

14:34

But players could find out it is a malicious server I guess by noticing the unencrypted warning

y

yes, on the first message, anything else requires exchanging keys out-of-band or some web of trust or whatever model

14:36

a problem might be that players use different clients and then have different keys under the same name

what do you mean?

if you play on your laptop and desktop pc using the same name, you will have changing pubkeys

the encryption should only make sure that if you send a message to another tee that this tee recives it and nobody else. No sort of authentication of proof that this tee is the tee you think it is.

14:38

This shoulnd t be used as signature or something just to make messageing private.

14:39

All other stuff would involve some sort of accounts or what ever something complicated and unteeish i guess

and how would you do that without allowing the server to intercept messages?

14:40

there doesn't have to be any central account registry, just clients exchanging pubkeys

14:40

(via servers)

yes? i dont see the problem

you receive the pubkey from the server, so encrypting with that is useless for the most part

14:53

unless you have some way to verify that it indeed belongs to whoever you are talking to

I thought the clients wishper pubkeys to each other and then send a sample message first. So if the sample message can be encrypted correctly with the private keys the clients know the server didnt manipulate the pub keys.

so you want clients to talk directly to each other? how would they do that?

no

14:57

they use normal wispher over the server

14:58

and they verifiy the publickeys with a sampel message to check if the server manipulated them

14:58

Oh wait the server can still man in the middle right?

yes, the first message (containing the pubkey) would have to be unencrypted, so the server can intercept the pubkey and send a different one to the other player

14:59

then reencrypt each message

sen dhis own key and then recrypt with the other key ftwards ye si see

exactly

but how does encryption then work usually? Idk