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DDraceNetwork
Development / developer
Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.org/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories — IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet
Between 2024-10-08 00:00 and 2024-10-09 00:00
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morning peeps
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A little early innit
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MilkeeyCat 2024-10-08 05:41
I know the language im doing advent of code in santatrollet
kek 1
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MilkeeyCat
I know the language im doing advent of code in santatrollet
Imagine
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Ryozuki
morning peeps
morning 🌄🌅
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Jupstar ✪
didnt expect more than 1 million entries 😄
there a lot of generated names, like 5 symbols random strings p.s ok you were talking about the ddnet base (edited)
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Jupstar ✪
didnt expect more than 1 million entries 😄
Avolicious 2024-10-08 06:32
I guess it stores namechanges during the Game too?
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Avolicious
I guess it stores namechanges during the Game too?
Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 06:33
Yeah. I guess if he played for at least 5 seconds or something he is in the list already ^^
06:35
In pm furo told me even with a finish that were like 1.3m. With at least 100 points it were around 100k (edited)
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what is the order based on?
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Tater
what is the order based on?
Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 06:50
The order in the video?
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 06:50
I shuffled it, so random
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pppArgv is insane naming kek
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triple pointer is insane variable
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GitHub BOT 2024-10-08 07:16
9630e16 fix CFGFLAG_STORE commands not getting stored when executed from reset file - dobrykafe 4dbf9a1 Merge pull request #9025 from dobrykafe/pr-fix-reset-file-crash - def-
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MilkeeyCat 2024-10-08 07:49
@Learath2 syntactic macros look so cool https://interpreterbook.com/lost/ 5.1 5th paragraph
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Andre mozg. 2024-10-08 09:34
ПРИВЕТ
09:34
КАКДЕЛА
09:34
Я ВАХУЙ
09:34
ЕТО ПЕЗДЕЦ
09:34
Я ИГРАЮ И ТУТ МЕНЯ ЕБУТ
✅ 1
09:34
АЩАЗЗААЗАЗАЗАААЗВХАЗФЫВПЩФЫВАП
09:34
ХВ-ХВХВВХХВХВХВХВХВХВХХВХВ
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Andre mozg.
ПРИВЕТ
Sir this is a Wendy's ?
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guys how to host public server? please help
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Fredy
guys how to host public server? please help
$lan
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This command was not found.
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$wiki lan
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There we go -> setting up your lan server for online play
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meloƞ
There we go -> setting up your lan server for online play
i used sv_register 1 but its not making my server public
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Did you port forward ?
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oh i thought there is 2 ways to make it public, mb
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Ryozuki
Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 10:25
Yeah it's based on https://github.com/EmbarkStudios/rust-gpu Actually found the project really interesting, but it's also rather slow moving
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MilkeeyCat 2024-10-08 10:28
I thought client sends like 1-2 messages and you're ready to play but holy molly it does so much more xd CLIENT SERVER CClient::Connect NET_CTRLMSG_CONNECT -----------------------> CNetServer::OnTokenCtrlMsg CNetConnection::Feed: 445 <------------------ NET_CTRLMSG_CONNECTACCEPT (sets state to online & sets security token recieved from da packet) NET_CTRLMSG_ACCEPT ------------------------> CNetServer::TryAcceptClient CClient::PumpNetwork: 2492 CClient::SendInfo NETMSG_CLIENTVER --------------------------> CServer::ProcessClientPacket NETMSG_INFO -------------------------------> CServer::ProcessClientPacket CServer::SendRconType CClient::ProcessServerPacket: 2141 <--------- NETMSG_RCONTYPE SendCapabilities CClient::ProcessServerPacket: 1477 <--------- NETMSG_CAPABILITIES SendMap CClient::ProcessServerPacket: 1453 <--------- NETMSG_MAP_DETAILS CClient::ProcessServerPacket: 1493 <--------- NETMSG_MAP_CHANGE NETMSG_READY ------------------------------> CServer::ProcessClientPacket: 1584 CClient::ProcessServerPacket: 1665 <--------- NETMSG_CON_READY CGameClient::OnConnected NETMSGTYPE_CL_STARTINFO -------------------> CGameContext::OnStartInfoNetMessage CGameClient::OnMessage: 978 <---------------- NETMSGTYPE_SV_READYTOENTER CClient::EnterGame NETMSG_ENTERGAME --------------------------> CServer::ProcessClientPacket: 1607
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heinrich5991 2024-10-08 10:33
how did you generate this?
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MilkeeyCat 2024-10-08 10:33
i wrote it myself xd
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heinrich5991 2024-10-08 10:34
what are the numbers?
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MilkeeyCat 2024-10-08 10:34
line numbers
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heinrich5991 2024-10-08 10:34
ah
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so much effort
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 10:35
Uff, when I try to have the debug console of chromium open while I scroll in our skin database i get
10:35
SIGILL
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heinrich5991 2024-10-08 10:35
chrome 0day? :p
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 10:35
Apparently chrome changed smth about max xmlhttp requests
10:35
so i wanted to dbg it
10:36
But no chance xD
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heinrich5991
chrome 0day? :p
Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 10:36
Dunno 😄 But only happens if console is open, so maybe a bug in the debugging tools
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can anyone help me please, how to fix this problem? I just want to make public server
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 12:41
Stop posting in all channels
12:41
sv_register ipv4
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thanks
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Jupstar ✪
sv_register ipv4
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 12:56
if you don't understand this msg, use google
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i used already, i did a lot of things and nothing
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 12:57
i wont help you to bypass the protection of yout NAT tho
12:57
it doesn't look like you host the server on a VPS
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what is vps
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 12:58
Search the world's information, including webpages, images, videos and more. Google has many special features to help you find exactly what you're looking for.
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so how can i host the server on a vps?
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 12:59
buy a vps
12:59
read tutorials
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cant i host without vps?
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 12:59
you can, but i wont help you with that. ask others
12:59
alr thanks
13:03
But yes, you need to open port 8303 (or to whatever sv_port is set to in your config) in order to register the server in the internet tab.
13:03
and to do that, you need access to your router interface, if you don't know how, then either read your routers manual or google the routers brand
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i did everything there and still no results...
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 13:18
Even if you did everything right, there is a chance that your internet provider simply doesn't allow it
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Fredy
i did everything there and still no results...
Since you've did everything, can you screenshot your routers port forwarding interface which clearly displays you've opened port 8303?
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murpi
Since you've did everything, can you screenshot your routers port forwarding interface which clearly displays you've opened port 8303?
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Fredy
Click to see attachment 🖼️
and does the internal IP address match the local IP of the device you're using to run the server?
13:23
(screenshot that too) ^^
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murpi
and does the internal IP address match the local IP of the device you're using to run the server?
yes its 100% right, i copied that ipv4 address from cmd and typed it there (edited)
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Can you screenshot that? Just making sure
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ill dm you, ok?
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@Learath2 @Jupstar ✪ @heinrich5991 any weird language u find interesting to learn? for the upcoming https://adventofcode.com/
14:31
maybe ill learn ocaml
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Ryozuki
@Learath2 @Jupstar ✪ @heinrich5991 any weird language u find interesting to learn? for the upcoming https://adventofcode.com/
Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 14:31
go-lang
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Jupstar ✪
go-lang
i already know golang
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Ryozuki
@Learath2 @Jupstar ✪ @heinrich5991 any weird language u find interesting to learn? for the upcoming https://adventofcode.com/
I was planning on trying it in zig
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Ryozuki
@Learath2 @Jupstar ✪ @heinrich5991 any weird language u find interesting to learn? for the upcoming https://adventofcode.com/
Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 14:32
do at least one puzzle in the GPU
14:32
with risv-v
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Learath2
I was planning on trying it in zig
if i dont find a interesting alternative ill probs try zig too
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Ryozuki
@Learath2 @Jupstar ✪ @heinrich5991 any weird language u find interesting to learn? for the upcoming https://adventofcode.com/
Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 14:33
Whitespace is an esoteric programming language with syntax where only whitespace characters (space, tab and linefeed) have meaning – contrasting typical languages that largely ignore whitespace characters. As a consequence of its syntax, Whitespace source code can be contained within the whitespace of code written in a language that ignores whi...
14:34
As a consequence of its syntax, Whitespace source code can be contained within the whitespace of code written in a language that ignores whitespace – making the text a polyglot.
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Crystal is a general-purpose, object-oriented programming language. With syntax inspired by Ruby, it’s a compiled language with static type-checking. Types are resolved by an advanced type inference algorithm.
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Todays useless word no one has heard since 1856: salubrious, means healthy
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Learath2
Todays useless word no one has heard since 1856: salubrious, means healthy
gonna use that in an upcoming exam
15:21
thx
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didn't know why i replied that
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16:11
is header less c++ a thing justatest
16:11
No words, only emotions
16:13
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 16:14
I think you wanted to post that in #showroom ? XD
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MilkeeyCat 2024-10-08 16:14
cool #developer content
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 16:14
But thanks for sharing
16:14
I feel your sorrow
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Not a sorrow, rather anger
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Jupstar ✪
I think you wanted to post that in #showroom ? XD
nah, developers should finally fix physics to run 100x perf
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Teero
nah, developers should finally fix physics to run 100x perf
Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 16:18
Ok i have a secret for you: You are a developer too
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When RTX in DDNet...?
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Xen
When RTX in DDNet...?
Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 16:19
As soon as you created the pr for it
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MilkeeyCat 2024-10-08 16:20
noone looked at my pr in 3 weeks feelsbadman
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Jupstar ✪
As soon as you created the pr for it
I create the PR to let you do the job? 👍
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Xen
I create the PR to let you do the job? 👍
that would be called an issue
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MilkeeyCat
noone looked at my pr in 3 weeks feelsbadman
Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 16:22
I look at it sometimes. Then close it again
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Jupstar ✪
I look at it sometimes. Then close it again
MilkeeyCat 2024-10-08 16:22
D:
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 16:22
k wtf
16:22
0.7 pr
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no way
16:23
where
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 16:23
closed again
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Teero
that would be called an issue
mhh..my issues are orders...
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 16:24
dictatorships are discussed in #off-topic
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I'm not sure if this is intentional, but if you register a chat command, like /logout, you won’t be able to use it because the same command name exists for both rcon and econ
16:35
says access denied
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heinrich5991 2024-10-08 17:24
./x test library/std -- os::unix::net::tests::test_unix_datagram_connect_to_recv_addr (code of test) causes macOS to crash. The following is a minimized version of that test: use std::os::unix::net...
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 17:26
Wow that is quite minimal code to reproduce such a issue xD
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┴═╦╕ Авторитет гей клуба 2024-10-08 17:37
кто няшка?
17:38
I wonder how US courts can rule that google is more of a monopoly wrt. app store than apple
17:38
but here we are
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Kaffeine BOT 2024-10-08 18:14
Crazy news.
18:15
btw, thanks heinrich, I have setup caddy and supplied the necessary urls to NETMSG_MAP_DETAILS and it actually works.
18:16
(I added some baseurl config var and append the map name in CServer::SendMap())
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crazy :0
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GitHub BOT 2024-10-08 18:25
When using Ninja and MSYS2, the resource files cannot be compiled: ``` [1/5] Building RC object CMakeFiles/game-client.dir/other/icons/DDNet.rc.obj FAILED: CMakeFiles/game-client.dir/other/icons/DDNet.rc.obj X:\msys64\usr\bin\windres.exe -O coff -DCONF_AUTOUPDATE -DCONF_BACKEND_VULKAN -DCONF_GLEW_HAS_CONTEXT_INIT -DCONF_INFORM_UPDATE -DCONF_VIDEORECORDER -DGAME_RELEASE_VERSION="18.7" -DGLEW_STATIC -DNOMINMAX -DNTDDI_VERSION=0x06000000 -DUNICODE -DWIN32_LEAN_AND_MEAN -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=...
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 18:57
@murpi is the skin upload bot still not in auto start? xd it's down again
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I don't know :$
🫠 2
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what did youtube say?
19:35
about that paper
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 19:38
And where is their mistake?
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Jupstar ✪
And where is their mistake?
I don't know enough math to say that, but I'm fairly certain nothing "obvious" was missed with this problem given how long it stood 😄
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Learath2
I don't know enough math to say that, but I'm fairly certain nothing "obvious" was missed with this problem given how long it stood 😄
Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 19:41
I mean where is the flaw in the proof xd Was it all so easy or what?
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Jupstar ✪
I mean where is the flaw in the proof xd Was it all so easy or what?
As said, I'm not the calibre of mathematician required to critique this guys proof. All I'm saying is that it's unlikely someone found a simple direct proof that fits in 7 pages and can be demonstrated on geogebra 😄
19:43
and it's even more unlikely that someone that solved a millenium problem refuses to post in an established journal
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Learath2
As said, I'm not the calibre of mathematician required to critique this guys proof. All I'm saying is that it's unlikely someone found a simple direct proof that fits in 7 pages and can be demonstrated on geogebra 😄
Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 19:43
Ah yeah, looks to good to be true, him just casually using some paint skillz lol
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but hey, maybe I'm wrong and the riemann hypothesis is actually proven true, either way win win 😄
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 19:45
I have to assume they just want some attention. My brain doesn't allow it
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I think this dude has been talking about his "direct proof" of the remann hypoethesis for a long time now
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His last update video starts off by saying the original paper had a mistake in it that could be shown with simple algebra, so he fixed it to this current version by reducing the proof to a single lemma
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idk you would think if his approach had any merit then it would have been confirmed by now
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Tater
idk you would think if his approach had any merit then it would have been confirmed by now
if he was close people would flock to fix and complete his proof
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exactly
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heinrich5991 2024-10-08 19:50
this is 2020. if this had any merit, you would have heard of it already
19:50
what everyone else already said
19:50
nvm
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heinrich5991
this is 2020. if this had any merit, you would have heard of it already
Last update is Sept 24 2024, he fixed the "trivial issue" reduced it to a single lemma 😄
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 19:51
Fake it 'til you make it 😬
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Learath2
and it's even more unlikely that someone that solved a millenium problem refuses to post in an established journal
directly disproven: Grigori Jakowlewitsch Perelman
19:52
iirc arxiv.org
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jxsl13
directly disproven: Grigori Jakowlewitsch Perelman
He was an eccentric person, whose proof was confirmed mostly quickly and furthermore it wasn't 5 pages
19:52
😄
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there are a lot of schizo marhematicians
19:52
vixra is a fun place to find them btw
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Actually this paper is quite short, I wonder if you could type it up in something like Coq and have the computer check it
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kog mentioned
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Then you could write a paper on how this supposedly trivial proof of riemann hypothesis was disproven using computer assisted proof tech
19:54
or Lean 3 or sth
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heinrich5991 2024-10-08 19:54
nah, that doesn't work
19:55
only the reverse works
19:55
you can't say a proof doesn't work just because you weren't able to formalize it in lean
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Hm, that's interesting. Can't you somehow show that you did formulate it properly? As in show the equivalence between the papers claims and your formalization (edited)
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heinrich5991 2024-10-08 19:56
two problems with that
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 19:57
My professor proved his statements by saying "trivial". That's my spirit.
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Jupstar ✪
My professor proved his statements by saying "trivial". That's my spirit.
The proof is trivial, alas too large for this margin, it's left as an exercise for the reader
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heinrich5991 2024-10-08 19:57
a) no, you can't. that's one of the fundamental problems of formalization. you can't show that the model you have corresponds to what you want to have b) even if it has the correct model, that doesn't mean the absence of a proof means anything — it could just be you being too stupid to fill in the gaps the author left
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heinrich5991
a) no, you can't. that's one of the fundamental problems of formalization. you can't show that the model you have corresponds to what you want to have b) even if it has the correct model, that doesn't mean the absence of a proof means anything — it could just be you being too stupid to fill in the gaps the author left
Interesting, I would have thought proofs like this one would be rather simple to put into computer language, then a computer can check whether the claims hold at each step
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heinrich5991 2024-10-08 20:00
a paper proof is almost never detailed enough for a computer to check
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IOW whether atleast the papers claims are valid under the assumption that all it's assertions hold
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heinrich5991 2024-10-08 20:01
you always have to fill in the gaps
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aint they working on formalizing the riemann hypothesis in lean or something
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I see, interesting. I've never seen a computer assisted proof done except for examples so complex that I can't follow
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heinrich5991 2024-10-08 20:02
try proving something really trivial from your first semester
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the four color theorem is probably the only one that comes to my mind
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heinrich5991 2024-10-08 20:03
I actually like working with proof assistants 🙂
20:03
kinda like a small puzzle game
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heinrich5991
I actually like working with proof assistants 🙂
Which one would you suggest playing around with?
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heinrich5991 2024-10-08 20:03
lean is the hip shit, I heard
20:03
I mostly worked in coq so far, but would try lean nowadays
20:04
one of the first things I did after going through various coq tutorials was proving that a group is commutative if each element is self-inverse
20:04
this was slightly nontrivial but still interesting
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Say I filled in "all" the gaps/hidden assumptions in this mans proof, would it still not be enough to show that this paper doesn't hold?
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heinrich5991 2024-10-08 20:04
if you filled in all the gaps, then you'd have the proof
20:04
so there must be some gap missing
20:05
this is probably where a false statement appears
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hm, maybe I misunderstood the word "gap" there
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heinrich5991 2024-10-08 20:05
you can find that counterexample if it's simple enough
20:05
but if you do, the answer is going to be that this doesn't matter for the correctness of the proof
20:05
and that you just need slightly different assumptions
20:06
(which is also something that happens for actual mathematics btw, that statements have slightly wrong assumptions, but the whole proof still works if you correct them)
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Is it not possible to show that a gap is "unfillable"?
20:06
I'm guessing not in general
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heinrich5991 2024-10-08 20:07
you can sometimes prove that statements are false, yes. but since this is a well-known hypothesis, both a proof and a proof of the inverse are very hard
20:07
so if you construct your fake proof well enough, the person trying to show that your proof doesn't work has to almost prove the riemann hypothesis right or wrong
20:07
to conclusively prove that you're wrong
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I see, that makes some sense yeah
20:09
btw my favourite mathematical problem ever is the Collatz conjecture. I really hope one day we have a beautiful proof for it
20:09
not one of those billion page computer generated proofs, nor a 2 sentence counterexample 😄
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some of the very hard long standing problems are in a little gap between the problem having sufficient complexity to encode a turing machine, and the problem being solvable. So you end up almost running into the halting problem but not quite (edited)
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It does feel very closely related to something like the halting problem though, so idk maybe it can be shown to actually be impossible to prove
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heinrich5991 2024-10-08 20:12
concrecte examples are probably not impossible to prove
20:13
*for concrete, non-constructed, examples, it's probably hard to prove that it's impossible to prove
20:13
but turing showed really early that the generalized collatz problem is equivalent to the halting problem
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 20:14
Impossible is just the lack of entering the world of infinity
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heinrich5991
but turing showed really early that the generalized collatz problem is equivalent to the halting problem
What sort of generalization are we talking about here?
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heinrich5991 2024-10-08 20:15
instead of 2 cases, choose n cases and give a polynomial step formula for each
20:15
IIRC
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I read about busy beaver numbers a couple months back, it's such an interesting way to "quantify" complexity
20:18
Proving the Collatz Conjecture is as hard as computing BB(15) apparently
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 20:18
@Learath2 What do you think, how many percent of today's known math do you know?
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Jupstar ✪
@Learath2 What do you think, how many percent of today's known math do you know?
Probably less than 10%, say 10 with all the curiousities I skimmed over my life
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Learath2
Proving the Collatz Conjecture is as hard as computing BB(15) apparently
wow really? bb(15) is absurd
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can anyone recommend gameskin?
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Fantrap
can anyone recommend gameskin?
Try #general or #questions
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Fantrap
can anyone recommend gameskin?
Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 20:19
default is legendary
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Learath2
Try #general or #questions
Opps sorry
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 20:19
try that
👍 1
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Tater
wow really? bb(15) is absurd
There is a 15 state Turing machine that halts if and only if a conjecture by Paul Erdős (closely related to the Collatz conjecture) is false. Hence if BB(15) was known, and this machine did not stop in that number of steps, it would be known to run forever and hence no counterexamples exist (which proves the conjecture true). This is a completely impractical way to settle the conjecture; instead it is used to suggest that BB(15) will be very hard to compute, at least as difficult as settling this Collatz-like conjecture.
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heinrich5991 2024-10-08 20:19
10% sounds like too much IMO. even for some math researcher
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heinrich5991
10% sounds like too much IMO. even for some math researcher
I guess it's hard for me to estimate that percentage given I don't know what I don't know
20:20
So that 10% is more like, I know some things about 10% of the math I've heard about ever even in passing
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Learath2
Proving the Collatz Conjecture is as hard as computing BB(15) apparently
heinrich5991 2024-10-08 20:20
the longer text states the opposite: computing BB(15) is at least as hard as proving the collatz conjecture
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 20:21
It's still interesting to philosophy about such questions. We probably cannot even comprehend how much math there is xd What do you think, how many percent do you know? :DD
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If you consider the ability to understand the cutting edge math of any subject in under a week I think Tao knows more than 10%
20:21
just because he hasn't read every paper ever seems unfair to say that he only understands <10% of mathematics
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heinrich5991
the longer text states the opposite: computing BB(15) is at least as hard as proving the collatz conjecture
Hm, perhaps I misremembered, it's been months since I took a gander at bb
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terence tao is a genius
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Tater
If you consider the ability to understand the cutting edge math of any subject in under a week I think Tao knows more than 10%
Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 20:24
Possible. What I often notice in software development is, how many libs we don't know but depend on. So much random code that is actually used by many ppl, but I never heard of. Ofc some code solves the same problem as others. But generally there are always new things. So if you say ok, but if you know most stuff about CPU arch and GPU arches and how memory works and what do I know, how much do you really know about software dev then? (edited)
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To be fair, isn't it fact that there is no consistent system of axioms that can prove all truths of natural numbers? So some of the true things will never be provable
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Idk it's hard to find a parallel to Terence Tao is the computing world
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So there is "math" if you can even call it "math" that we would never be able to ever explore 😄
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 20:26
It's also kinda two sided. A good kernel dev might understand the problems of a "normal" program. But does that make him a good developer in this field? 😄
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Terence Tao competes against great mathmaticians, and he is alive, probs the best math guy in the world rn
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software is mostly about labor than it is deep insights.
20:28
I think there's probably many software engineers who given enough years could replicate the linux kernal, but no one has time for that.
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Tater
software is mostly about labor than it is deep insights.
Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 20:28
Well is that so? 😄 Do you learn by doing this labor? If you can learn from it, what is there to learn if it's just about doing stuff 😄
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well there are many great software guys
20:28
alan turing
20:28
i forgot the other big name
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 20:28
@Patiga gg
👋 1
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omg
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I don't mean computer science, I mean software as a practical industry
20:28
the part that has a $10 trillion dollar value
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Tater
software is mostly about labor than it is deep insights.
Well there is still theoretical computer science going on, with many deep insights required
20:29
Software engineering is just putting pieces together, so yeah, that is a little less "deep" I guess
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Tater
I don't mean computer science, I mean software as a practical industry
software practical industry is driven by computer science imho
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yes but those deep insights alone do not get you to useful software
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but they kind of do
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the field of computer science is hugely influenced by industry moreso than pure mathematics
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Tater
I don't mean computer science, I mean software as a practical industry
Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 20:30
Yeah I can defs understand your point. It seems like development doesn't require huge skills, since so many ppl can create useful stuff.
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a language like rust is based on computer science, the borrow checker is literally a paper
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there is no deep insight you can have that lets you reproduce the linux kernal in a week or a month
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 20:30
Probably bcs our computers are so fast 😄
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with lot of theory
20:30
and rust is useful software
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I'm talking about the ratio of theory:work
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Tater
there is no deep insight you can have that lets you reproduce the linux kernal in a week or a month
I just had a very deep insight that will allow me to do that
20:31
git clone https://github.com/torvalds/linux.git 🙃
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Ryozuki
a language like rust is based on computer science, the borrow checker is literally a paper
Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 20:31
And do you feel the theory is needed to invent smth like Rust? Or could you just do it and do the theory later? 😄
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Jupstar ✪
And do you feel the theory is needed to invent smth like Rust? Or could you just do it and do the theory later? 😄
rust lies strong on the theory to prove its safe
20:31
in its definition of safe
20:32
engineering is just an application of science
20:32
there are ofc good engineers
20:32
imho its 50/50
20:32
LLVM the best compiler in the world, along gcc is powered by its R&D
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Jupstar ✪
And do you feel the theory is needed to invent smth like Rust? Or could you just do it and do the theory later? 😄
After looking into making my own, I can confirm that just going at it is not possible unless you are like a savant for whom it's immediately obvious
20:33
If you are not careful and don't have a strong theoretical background you immediately run into the halting problem trying to implement a borrow checker 😄
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just because you can use theory to make software doesn't mean it's necessary. strictly speaking you could write every program in C with enough time, and the end user would not notice
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its true tho that a lot of science papers are crazy and ignore completly how a computer works in the real world
20:34
and dont do optimized algorithms
20:34
whathever
20:34
what i mean is sometimes they are far fetched fro mreality yes
20:34
but there is some practical stuff
20:34
(for example, of useless things: galatic algorithms)
20:35
A galactic algorithm is one with record-breaking theoretical (asymptotic) performance, but which is never used in practice. Typical reasons are that the performance gains only appear for problems that are so large they never occur, or the algorithm's complexity outweighs a relatively small gain in performance. Galactic algorithms were so named ...
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Learath2
To be fair, isn't it fact that there is no consistent system of axioms that can prove all truths of natural numbers? So some of the true things will never be provable
heinrich5991 2024-10-08 20:35
yes. gödel's incompleteness theorem
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There are more theoretical papers and there are more concrete practical papers, I've seen both kinds in the wild
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like you make a program will only run if you input the lean proof of the Poincaré conjecture and then say that "see you need theory in order to make software" (edited)
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An example of a galactic algorithm is the fastest known way to multiply two numbers,[3] which is based on a 1729-dimensional Fourier transform.[4] It needs O ( n log ⁡ n ) {\displaystyle O(n\log n)} bit operations, but as the constants hidden by the big O notation are large, it is never used in practice. However, it also shows why galactic algorithms may still be useful. The authors state: "we are hopeful that with further refinements, the algorithm might become practical for numbers with merely billions or trillions of digits."[4]
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pepeW (edited)
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Ryozuki
Terence Tao competes against great mathmaticians, and he is alive, probs the best math guy in the world rn
heinrich5991 2024-10-08 20:36
thought he's mostly the most visible one of the very good mathematicians
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from the ppl i know he is held as the best math alive
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Ryozuki
An example of a galactic algorithm is the fastest known way to multiply two numbers,[3] which is based on a 1729-dimensional Fourier transform.[4] It needs O ( n log ⁡ n ) {\displaystyle O(n\log n)} bit operations, but as the constants hidden by the big O notation are large, it is never used in practice. However, it also shows why galactic algorithms may still be useful. The authors state: "we are hopeful that with further refinements, the algorithm might become practical for numbers with merely billions or trillions of digits."[4]
mind you, im NOT implementing it in Tee Galaxy
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heinrich5991
thought he's mostly the most visible one of the very good mathematicians
i recommend u read the biography paper i sent
20:37
its rly interesting
20:37
he was identified as a genius and was raised as such, not ignored
20:37
lucky to have rich parents tho
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Tao is very impressive because of his breadth, it's hard to say if there is an equally smart mathematician who only focused on one subject their entire career.
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His research includes topics in harmonic analysis, partial differential equations, algebraic combinatorics, arithmetic combinatorics, geometric combinatorics, probability theory, compressed sensing and analytic number theory.[4]
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Tater
like you make a program will only run if you input the lean proof of the Poincaré conjecture and then say that "see you need theory in order to make software" (edited)
Well not all theory fits to computation. You can't really "just make" an AI without understanding any theory. AI is about as close to "just theory" as you can get
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Tater
Tao is very impressive because of his breadth, it's hard to say if there is an equally smart mathematician who only focused on one subject their entire career.
his dedication must've been insane
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 20:38
There are probs tons of legendary mathematicans alive today, that we don't know. The world also doesn't know us, the Legends.
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Childhood A child prodigy,[20] Terence Tao skipped 6 grades.[21][22] Tao exhibited extraordinary mathematical abilities from an early age, attending university-level mathematics courses at the age of 9. He is one of only three children in the history of the Johns Hopkins Study of Exceptional Talent program to have achieved a score of 700 or greater on the SAT math section while just eight years old; Tao scored a 760.[23] Julian Stanley, Director of the Study of Mathematically Precocious Youth, stated that Tao had the greatest mathematical reasoning ability he had found in years of intensive searching.[6][24] Tao was the youngest participant to date in the International Mathematical Olympiad, first competing at the age of ten; in 1986, 1987, and 1988, he won a bronze, silver, and gold medal, respectively. Tao remains the youngest winner of each of the three medals in the Olympiad's history, having won the gold medal at the age of 13 in 1988.[25]
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god damn, at the age of 9
20:39
young neilson would shit itself
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Ryozuki
a language like rust is based on computer science, the borrow checker is literally a paper
heinrich5991 2024-10-08 20:39
hmmm. rust is a very practical language I think, very distant from academic languages. it tries to solve real-world problems, such as interactions with C, something that academics are largely unconcerned about
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heinrich5991
hmmm. rust is a very practical language I think, very distant from academic languages. it tries to solve real-world problems, such as interactions with C, something that academics are largely unconcerned about
yeah, i dont disagree (?)
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heinrich5991 2024-10-08 20:40
it still relies on a lot of CS, just like other languages
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i wish they made a movie about tao
20:41
i seen the ramanujan one
20:41
i like seeing movies about smart ppl
20:41
xd
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Learath2
Well not all theory fits to computation. You can't really "just make" an AI without understanding any theory. AI is about as close to "just theory" as you can get
I think all theory does fit in computation, by definition. Even cutting edge AI research doesn't not require math knowledge as deep as physics or other areas, most people can learn all the math for transformers in a couple years it's not insane stuff.
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Ryozuki
from the ppl i know he is held as the best math alive
What does it mean to be the "best" mathematician anyway? He is exceptional in his field but is he say better than everyone in every subbranch of mathematics? Is he the best to ever live? Is he "better" than say Euler e.g.? or Ramanujan?
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@Tater tell tao to invent better ultraforce if you see him around
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Learath2
What does it mean to be the "best" mathematician anyway? He is exceptional in his field but is he say better than everyone in every subbranch of mathematics? Is he the best to ever live? Is he "better" than say Euler e.g.? or Ramanujan?
idk
20:42
the nice thing is he is alive
kek 1
20:42
xd
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 20:43
@Teero You could also be legendary with your intellect. So learn Rust today
20:43
And you are young
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@Jupstar ✪ u can become legendary vulkano
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 20:43
I am old, I missed my chance 😬
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how old are u
20:43
im 24
20:43
im old already
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Ryozuki
@Jupstar ✪ u can become legendary vulkano
Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 20:43
Some day in future
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retiring stages of rust
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Ryozuki
im 24
Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 20:43
28 :c
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Tater
I think all theory does fit in computation, by definition. Even cutting edge AI research doesn't not require math knowledge as deep as physics or other areas, most people can learn all the math for transformers in a couple years it's not insane stuff.
Make me a program that uses the fact that Poincare Conjecture holds. A deep proof about three dimensional topological manifolds just doesn't lend itself to very interesting software 😄
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Learath2
What does it mean to be the "best" mathematician anyway? He is exceptional in his field but is he say better than everyone in every subbranch of mathematics? Is he the best to ever live? Is he "better" than say Euler e.g.? or Ramanujan?
it's hard to overstate how good Tao is. There's a joke where mathemeticians who are struggling on a problem could spend their time more productively by trying to get Tao interested in their problem. Even if he knew nothing about it previously. (edited)
😂 1
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Ryozuki
retiring stages of rust
put some WD40 on and everything is fine again
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Tater
it's hard to overstate how good Tao is. There's a joke where mathemeticians who are struggling on a problem could spend their time more productively by trying to get Tao interested in their problem. Even if he knew nothing about it previously. (edited)
i heard that too
20:44
also he co authors a lot with others
20:44
even if the others arent as good
20:44
which they arent
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he's done it multiple times too so it's not even a fake stategy lol
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@Learath2 dont u think the current problems in the math world are the highest difficulty? since usually by logic the older stuff tends to be "easier" and discovering "new" is harder
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ryozuki greatx50 grandson say that again in 1000 years
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? xd
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Ryozuki
@Learath2 dont u think the current problems in the math world are the highest difficulty? since usually by logic the older stuff tends to be "easier" and discovering "new" is harder
Well, that's by definition, as our understanding of a field improves there is less and less low hanging fruit. But the problems Euler faced at his time were also the hardest of his time.
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if i have a kid he will probs learn rust or whathever future safe gcless lang there is
20:47
owo
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Ryozuki
if i have a kid he will probs learn rust or whathever future safe gcless lang there is
Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 20:47
And if your kid doesn't like computer science?
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then he can go kick a ball
20:47
it will be sad but thats life
20:48
but i think parentsh ave lot of influence on what a kid likes
20:48
my dad taught me about fishkeeping aquariums and here i am
20:48
im sure deens kid will love sql
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20:48
gigachad
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 20:48
I don't think so. Maybe 50:50
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20:49
Most humans alive are no computer scientists 😄
😄 1
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true
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Ryozuki
but i think parentsh ave lot of influence on what a kid likes
subtly feed him rust propaganda
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Jupstar ✪
Most humans alive are no computer scientists 😄
but also because nobody taughts them ever
20:49
i have neverb een taught at basic school
20:49
u have to go out of ur way
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not nowadays lol
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maybe now it changed
20:49
xd
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everyone is doing cs
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im old
👴 1
20:49
sadHamster
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Ryozuki
but also because nobody taughts them ever
Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 20:50
Teaching is one side, but if you have no will, you will maybe loose interest, or only do it by force and actually dislike it
20:50
I dunno
20:50
We open harder and harder topics rn
20:50
lol
😳 1
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but teaching opens u the door to know abut it
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What annoys me the most is the current standard of physics. We always use models that are supposed to represent real life behavior but are pretty annoying to deal with since it won't be 100% accurate and if you want to simulate something over a longer time the solution will become so inaccurate that it is unrecognizable. But people just accept that.
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most kids dont even know about "code" itself
20:50
or how a program is made
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Tater
I think all theory does fit in computation, by definition. Even cutting edge AI research doesn't not require math knowledge as deep as physics or other areas, most people can learn all the math for transformers in a couple years it's not insane stuff.
You know I see a lot of early me in you, you need to be careful, find a new path before it's too late
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or that they can do a program
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Learath2
You know I see a lot of early me in you, you need to be careful, find a new path before it's too late
tell me more 😮
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Learath2
You know I see a lot of early me in you, you need to be careful, find a new path before it's too late
I await your advice sage Learath 🙏
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 20:51
@Learath2 Ok last question, then I rq. Do you believe in sudden geniuses? Like let's say until 35 you sucked hard in math, but suddenly you like it insanely for no reason and are super good and still do smth epyc?
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i hope thats me
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two potatoes awaiting the teachings
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I think the young lads say touch grass or sth. It's very good for you
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i need to master math someday in my life
20:52
but i got no time
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mash our brains
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math is the programming language of the world
👍 1
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jxsl13
two potatoes awaiting the teachings
make it there (edited)
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Jupstar ✪
@Learath2 Ok last question, then I rq. Do you believe in sudden geniuses? Like let's say until 35 you sucked hard in math, but suddenly you like it insanely for no reason and are super good and still do smth epyc?
There is one of those people I've read about. Sucked at math until uni, took a class in uni accidentally, loved it, won a fields medal
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Jupstar ✪
@Learath2 Ok last question, then I rq. Do you believe in sudden geniuses? Like let's say until 35 you sucked hard in math, but suddenly you like it insanely for no reason and are super good and still do smth epyc?
happened once to a guy who got a concussion from pool diving, maybe try that
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Ryozuki
math is the programming language of the world
I don't think you can represent all of nature with math
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i believe u can
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Tater
happened once to a guy who got a concussion from pool diving, maybe try that
Jupstar ✪ 2024-10-08 20:53
👌 Cya later
💀 4
😄 1
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Ryozuki
math is the programming language of the world
you mean the world was made by mathematical process?
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Learath2
I think the young lads say touch grass or sth. It's very good for you
:0 it's too profound. Is it the naivity?
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Fantrap
you mean the world was made by mathematical process?
i mean you can describe all the world by math
20:54
and if so, probs what u said hold true
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Ryozuki
i mean you can describe all the world by math
I got it
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Ryozuki
i believe u can
Math is made up by humans to describe the world around us I don't think it is able to describe everything as it is right now. I'm pretty sure there is behavior that you cannot describe with our current "set" of math. So it will need to get extended over time
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i also believe there is no destiny all is predetermined by a nearly or infinite state machine, whose input before was all the atoms or whathever particle is the smallest, and it produces an output
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I'm old btw
20:55
😢
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its just so complex it looks like its ur own decision
20:55
to move ur hand
20:55
to write here
20:55
but no
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Learath2
There is one of those people I've read about. Sucked at math until uni, took a class in uni accidentally, loved it, won a fields medal
June E Huh (Korean: 허준이; born June 9, 1983) is an American mathematician who is currently a professor at Princeton University. Previously, he was a professor at Stanford University. He was awarded the Fields Medal and a MacArthur Fellowship in 2022. He has been noted for the linkages that he has found between algebraic geometry and combinatorics...
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Ryozuki
i also believe there is no destiny all is predetermined by a nearly or infinite state machine, whose input before was all the atoms or whathever particle is the smallest, and it produces an output
An atom is also just a model we use to describe nature. We have no idea if we are correct. It is just that it fits with everything we have seen so far
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I liked maths before university
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yeah thats why i said whathever particle is the smallest
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i mean it depends how much of 'math' u mean by math
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what would a world be like without mathematics?
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like are u including random variables, statistics, etc.
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jxsl13
:0 it's too profound. Is it the naivity?
Thou shalt touch grass, or thou shalt end up talking about mathematicians at 11pm on a week night
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louis
like are u including random variables, statistics, etc.
Chaos theory is an interdisciplinary area of scientific study and branch of mathematics. It focuses on underlying patterns and deterministic laws of dynamical systems that are highly sensitive to initial conditions. These were once thought to have completely random states of disorder and irregularities. Chaos theory states that within the appare...
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Dayjob is so far away from theory as can be.
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Entropy is a scientific concept that is most commonly associated with a state of disorder, randomness, or uncertainty. The term and the concept are used in diverse fields, from classical thermodynamics, where it was first recognized, to the microscopic description of nature in statistical physics, and to the principles of information theory. It ...
20:57
gigachad
20:57
did i tell u yet i love isaac asimov
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"let's fix the http/s proxy parameter not being set"
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A project towards a universal library. By this art you may contemplate the variation of the 23 letters.
20:58
this library is made with maths
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Ryozuki
i also believe there is no destiny all is predetermined by a nearly or infinite state machine, whose input before was all the atoms or whathever particle is the smallest, and it produces an output
Wait, so you do believe in destiny?
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it holds all the info in the world
20:58
and all the possible books
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babel was iirc before the internet
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Learath2
Wait, so you do believe in destiny?
well not in the romantic way
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Wait what?
😳 1
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now they got a website
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in the way of our brain is made of chemicals that drive how we act
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20:59
xd
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Ryozuki
and all the possible books
The website is fake tho
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im watching the office on the side screen
😳 1
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Bookmark a:524 - page 234 of a book entitled vhlodxv.x, from volume 3838tb6q65u1fg8ng1naqva9fnd21jkjxseqbel...-w4-s4-v22 of the Library of Babel.
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Teero
The website is fake tho
how so
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do you guys think there will be super intelligent computers within the next 5 years that will replace all of us?
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Tater
do you guys think there will be super intelligent computers within the next 5 years that will replace all of us?
Yes
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Bookmark jtpxuv vvy69 - page 69 of a book entitled jtpxuv vvy from volume 1dbhwtmonikgw1lw2sae15xrdqx9054i5ddjb28...-w3-s3-v11 of the Library of Babel.
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Bcs why not¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Tater
do you guys think there will be super intelligent computers within the next 5 years that will replace all of us?
No, there will be medium intelligent computers that'll replace all of us within 2026
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Ryozuki
how so
Idk i have searched for stuff that shouldn't exist because the character set doesn't support it but it will still give me an output
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Sam Altman said there will be ASI in <3000 days
21:01
which is about 5 years
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Companies don't need many medium smart people, they need a handful of very smart people
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Atleast the search function is not legit
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sam likes marketing
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it's true
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same as elon
21:02
where is the tesla roadster
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but also I give him a little bit of credit because he might know more secrets about ai than the general public
21:02
all the models that openai release seem to be delayed by 1 year
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you can give him credit in case he lives in a basement and programs all day
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Tater
Sam Altman said there will be ASI in <3000 days
I don't think the current theory is good enough
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they had O1 since last october
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Tater
Sam Altman said there will be ASI in <3000 days
This I don't buy. Unless he has a secret unpublished novel AI
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except they did for the last year (edited)
21:03
their most recent release was secret for a whole year
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but all signs point that pouring more and more data into the models has exponentially diminishing returns
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they seem to be hitting a boundary there
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but inference time scaling is a thing now
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They'd need to be doing something extremely novel under the wraps
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Tater
Sam Altman said there will be ASI in <3000 days
Except there is some crazy new theory on how to do AI without transformers I do not think this is going to happen
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they do kind of layer their models
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sam is fake
21:04
he wants mony
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which might improve training time
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did u see those e/acc guys? xd
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https://arxiv.org/pdf/2404.04125 I read this a while ago, it's quite a decent read
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Ryozuki
he wants mony
this for sure
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Effective accelerationism, often abbreviated as "e/acc", is a 21st-century philosophical movement that advocates for an explicitly pro-technology stance. Its proponents believe that unrestricted technological progress (especially driven by artificial intelligence) is a solution to universal human problems like poverty, war and climate change. Th...
👍 1
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time to invest into nasdaq?
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The technological singularity—or simply the singularity—is a hypothetical future point in time at which technological growth becomes uncontrollable and irreversible, resulting in unforeseeable consequences for human civilization. According to the most popular version of the singularity hypothesis, I. J. Good's intelligence explosion model of 196...
21:05
justatest
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but I'm fairly sure a lot of computer engineers will be replaced within 5 years. We are just not very efficient at our work
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i hope im not replaced, i know rust
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Ryozuki
sam is fake
ok but consider that some people who left his company founded a new company to make a "straight shot to safe superintelligence" it's such a bold claim that surely they think they have a chance right? (edited)
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Ryozuki
i hope im not replaced, i know rust
You are a bit more safe as you are doing some novel work, you'll at least be needed to prompt the AI
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I'm like super chill and learath2 totally not sarcastic there
21:06
100% real
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Tater
ok but consider that some people who left his company founded a new company to make a "straight shot to safe superintelligence" it's such a bold claim that surely they think they have a chance right? (edited)
they're not even going to release anything to the public, they're just gonna make super ai and then get money
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this is the point where you might wanna touch some grass
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Tater
they're not even going to release anything to the public, they're just gonna make super ai and then get money
if they actually manage to make super ai, the super ai will manipulate them into putting itself in charge and murder all of us
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jxsl13
this is the point where you might wanna touch some grass
See I'm telling you, it's still not too late to fix your lives
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Learath2
if they actually manage to make super ai, the super ai will manipulate them into putting itself in charge and murder all of us
Imagine some math and energy takes over humans
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Software engineering is dying anyway, we'll all be replaced by offshore prompt farms and AI
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jxsl13
this is the point where you might wanna touch some grass
I was touching grass yesterday I'm done for the week
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make some fries then
21:09
👀
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Learath2
Software engineering is dying anyway, we'll all be replaced by offshore prompt farms and AI
i want to see amovie about this
21:09
distopian
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idk it seems like you guys are pretty skeptical which is what I was curious about.
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Learath2
Software engineering is dying anyway, we'll all be replaced by offshore prompt farms and AI
I discussed with @Jupstar ✪ recently how it would be nice for time to be ~stopped so you can code and create new things indefinitely. (edited)
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tbh the pinacle of tech dev wuld be that no person on earth has to work and there is no scarcity, but we are greed personified so it wont happen (edited)
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Ryozuki
i want to see amovie about this
I have seen apes pressing random buttons somewhere in a movies.
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Learath2
Software engineering is dying anyway, we'll all be replaced by offshore prompt farms and AI
my dads company outsources a lot of work to overseas because the executives want to save money and he always complains about it, so I'm not too worried
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ur a company boy?
21:11
get out!
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we have the same problems
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kek
21:11
the company where he works at
21:11
he doesn't own it
21:11
xd
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Ryozuki
tbh the pinacle of tech dev wuld be that no person on earth has to work and there is no scarcity, but we are greed personified so it wont happen (edited)
The second technology gets that good the people who own it will wall us off and live in tech utopia while we graze fields and trade with them to stay alive
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ur safe
21:11
for now
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I don't work for him either
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what dou you do :0?
21:12
freelance?
21:13
megacorp?
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He farms taters ofc
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in texas?
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texas aPES3_EmuRide
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howdy pals!
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jxsl13
what dou you do :0?
it's a small company, I work remote. If I said the industry or what it is you could find it instantly xd
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when i ehar texas i think of this
21:14
he says texas
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@Tater do you own a gun to defend yourself if the taters act up?
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oh its american interrogation day
21:15
we used to do this to gdin
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taters are the ruling class
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I already got rid of all the other Taters so I don't need it
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@gdin hi
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@gdin hii
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fritoes are the underlings
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Tater
I already got rid of all the other Taters so I don't need it
What did you do? justatest
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continues writing his script for a pixar movie
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I'll go play some zzz and sleep. Gn everyone, nice chat as always
zzzz 3
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Learath2
I'll go play some zzz and sleep. Gn everyone, nice chat as always
is it good
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Ryozuki
is it good
You have a gf, you don't need these superficialities
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Ryozuki
is it good
I'm always live frozen when waking up
👀 1
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wat
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you just waiting for the sleep paralysis to stop
21:20
somehow
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jxsl13
you just waiting for the sleep paralysis to stop
I can still hook
feelsbadman 1
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bro, what is the topic here, even
21:21
what is this fever dream talk
21:23
more ideas for the pixar movie
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Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? (edited)
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HARBFEaDtUEGWtdLML?
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I have once never hold my own do like ? Or are so pure derive
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friggin fever dream
21:33
i'm probably on sick leave tomorrow if this continues
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Teero
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? (edited)
"to use Go[lang] even [cuz awesome, skibidi rizz]" (edited)
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meloƞ
I have once never hold my own do like ? Or are so pure derive
MrHub momento
21:34
I want to spin him up
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https://lkml.org/lkml/2024/10/5/453 the new linus is boring, I want the old Linus back
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