DDraceNetwork - developer

OR, the mods can monkeypatch ddnet by compiling their code at runtime and injecting into memory

with a launcher, one could support multiple executables, given, they live in some specific folder

Learath2

OR, the mods can monkeypatch ddnet by compiling their code at runtime and injecting into memory

sounds reasonable

Jupstar ✪

bcs of fast input?

whats that

the sub tick aiming stuff?

it functionally applies antiping to your tee based on the inputs you're currently holding

00:18

idk if that makes any sense

Ewan

tclient is a complete game changer for gores

what do u mean exactly, can u elaborate? I thought it just adds some visuals, does it change how pred works completely?

1

oh, is it for gores gameplay

Gumba

what do u mean exactly, can u elaborate? I thought it just adds some visuals, does it change how pred works completely?

it was just explained 10 minutes before u replied (with the ping on steamsuffering

)

louis

oh, is it for gores gameplay

it's not really related to the gamemode at all but it's probably much more useful in gores? idk

00:39

I couldn't tell you because I suck at ddrace

louis

oh, is it for gores gameplay

works on ddnet too but the use of pretty much anything but static map tiles and player movement is buggy

I remember smth abt antipi g applying whether youre frozen or not too

that's a different feature but that one is almost entirely for gores

related, itd be nice for mods to send their custom prediction or antiping

yea there’s not really a model that works for that atm

what does that mean

server could theoretically send some kind of data to help the client predict its stuff

ah

00:41

ddpg works that way

00:41

the server sends the entire game physics so everything is predicted

00:41

it would be nearly impossible to do that in ddnet though

It would just require major refactoring and would be incompatible with old clients and servers

00:42

so yeah. nearly impossible

i will be switching to ddpg on release

I have bad news for u

the issue is you need ddpg servers and every mod needs to be written based on ddpg

00:43

there's no cross compatibility

00:43

but maybe some mod authors will make cool mods that use super different physics

its okay ill be good at rust by the time it releases

gerdöh already implemented insta kek

louis

its okay ill be good at rust by the time it releases

you have ~1 1/2 months

00:45

i'll be implementing zombies boys

ill do bomb tag poggers2

louis

ill do bomb tag poggers2

I think that's reserved to furo: and bencie I'm afraid feelsbadman

ok then im taking zombies so you can find something else

Ok I code battlefield

ChillerDragon

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #7598 Add OnSnapPlayerScore() controller hook

ddnet-maps

[ddnet-maps:master] 1 new commit

838ef45 M Kobra - ddnet-maps

TsFreddie

Click to see attachment 🖼️

I am in a public space and was just enjoying some reading in dev chat :(

MilkeeyCat

anyone pro in tree-sitter? I was trying to make highlighting for this keyword so it should be of type @variable if it's used in a function or @keyword if it's inside a method. I tried using has-ancestor? predicate and.. it did nothing, here's the whole thing:

((this) @variable
    (#has-ancestor? @keyword method_declaration))

https://github.com/MilkeeyCat/tree-sitter-meraki/compare/master...feat/this-highlighting

I didn't even need a separate rule for this, I just slapped this and it works xd:

((identifier) @variable.builtin
    (#eq? @variable.builtin "this")
    (#has-ancestor? @variable.builtin method_definition))

(edited)

louis

whats that

I just spam you with my brainstorming about it. But it kinda removes the time until next tick

07:24

Fast prediction code (lower input lag) brainstorming

Biggest problem is a direction change (looks jittery and is FPS dependent). One thing is clear. this gives up to 20ms less input lag (visually).

Tick        0 --------------- 1 Tick  
                 ^ input to move right at 0.25 intra tick
Tee-pos (0,0) --------------- (1,0) Predicted tee-pos 
                 <----------> in this range the tee has to do
                              the full movement from non-redicted
                              to predicted pos

holding move:

Tick        1 --------------- 2 Tick  
                         ^ input to STOP moving at 0.75 intra tick
Tee-pos (1,0) --------------- (1,0) Predicted tee-pos 
                         ^ (1.75, 0) at this moement the tee is here visually
                          <-> in this range the tee has to do
                              the RESET the movement from non-redicted
                              to predicted pos
                              So literally reverting 0.75 moved units
                              Additionally it would need to keep a second prediction
                              world, to even have something to interpolate against.

Since this is kind of anti-input lag (similar to anti-ping) this should maybe be configurable
How can we make the impact of the reset less?
How to keep track of the second prediction world (or even more?)
Can it be less FPS dependent? probably not. bad FPS itself make the game feel like

it's jumping around anyway Generally I'd like to have it active on by default. I thought maybe we can activate it if FPS are over 200, since more FPS make the jumping interpolation smoother. (also monitor's refresh rate)

I've had a lot of people on 60hz say they prefer it

07:41

idk if fps has any impact

07:41

the real issue is that it makes jump timing way harder

07:42

any action that sets your velocity instead of giving you acceleration feels worse

07:43

How to keep track of the second prediction world (or even more?)

the client already saves the positions of every tee on every tick of prediction so you don't need multiple worlds for most things unless you care about non-tee objects

heinrich5991

@Avolicious do you have info on the above? how often do players lose access to their email accounts and have a problem with the kog account due to this?

The number of ppl losing their e-mail account is not very accurate as they can login with their username password on the website. But after most people registered and have their ingame login, they dont reach out to us for months until they leaked it & then the fun begins. As we cant give out information & mods dont see e-mails at all, they have to escalate it to admins

Tater

How to keep track of the second prediction world (or even more?)

the client already saves the positions of every tee on every tick of prediction so you don't need multiple worlds for most things unless you care about non-tee objects

ah, i think that part was about our idea to make it more smooth

07:48

it kinda would need multiple prediction worlds i think

07:48

to interpolate between the predicted worlds xd

ah

But that part is defs the hardest

07:49

esp. for dd-pg bcs all mods would need to implement it

07:49

I wonder if it would look better anyway xd

07:50

I've had a lot of people on 60hz say they prefer it idk if fps has any impact

Ah ok, well I'm not very used to 60hz. But for me it felt extra terrible

(edited)

Avolicious

The number of ppl losing their e-mail account is not very accurate as they can login with their username password on the website. But after most people registered and have their ingame login, they dont reach out to us for months until they leaked it & then the fun begins. As we cant give out information & mods dont see e-mails at all, they have to escalate it to admins

does regeneration of the ingame login invalidate the old token?

heinrich5991

does regeneration of the ingame login invalidate the old token?

Yes

Jupstar ✪

Fast prediction code (lower input lag) brainstorming

Biggest problem is a direction change (looks jittery and is FPS dependent). One thing is clear. this gives up to 20ms less input lag (visually).

Tick        0 --------------- 1 Tick  
                 ^ input to move right at 0.25 intra tick
Tee-pos (0,0) --------------- (1,0) Predicted tee-pos 
                 <----------> in this range the tee has to do
                              the full movement from non-redicted
                              to predicted pos

holding move:

Tick        1 --------------- 2 Tick  
                         ^ input to STOP moving at 0.75 intra tick
Tee-pos (1,0) --------------- (1,0) Predicted tee-pos 
                         ^ (1.75, 0) at this moement the tee is here visually
                          <-> in this range the tee has to do
                              the RESET the movement from non-redicted
                              to predicted pos
                              So literally reverting 0.75 moved units
                              Additionally it would need to keep a second prediction
                              world, to even have something to interpolate against.

Since this is kind of anti-input lag (similar to anti-ping) this should maybe be configurable
How can we make the impact of the reset less?
How to keep track of the second prediction world (or even more?)
Can it be less FPS dependent? probably not. bad FPS itself make the game feel like

it's jumping around anyway Generally I'd like to have it active on by default. I thought maybe we can activate it if FPS are over 200, since more FPS make the jumping interpolation smoother. (also monitor's refresh rate)

This scheme doesn’t sound very fps dependent. Why is it?

Learath2

This scheme doesn’t sound very fps dependent. Why is it?

At least my brain thinks the impact is negitble on 240hz

07:51

I think it's a brain thing

07:51

the frames come out faster so the brain has more info

07:52

On 60hz it felt like it jumped quite hard xd

they dont reach out to us for months until they leaked it & then the fun begins.

@Avolicious what's the fun there? going back and cleaning up the malicious logins?

Jupstar ✪

ah, i think that part was about our idea to make it more smooth

I was going to implement variable amount of fast input between 0-20ms so you can set it to 10ms and experience less jitter but the issue with this is that it requires the client to lerp between 3 world states during a single intratick period. Basically like this

0 -------------- 1 -------------- 2
        ^ Intratick = 0 here
                           ^ Intratick = 1 here

but the client only saves 2 values at a time which makes it so you have to change a bunch of stuff

Tater

I was going to implement variable amount of fast input between 0-20ms so you can set it to 10ms and experience less jitter but the issue with this is that it requires the client to lerp between 3 world states during a single intratick period. Basically like this

0 -------------- 1 -------------- 2
        ^ Intratick = 0 here
                           ^ Intratick = 1 here

but the client only saves 2 values at a time which makes it so you have to change a bunch of stuff

Yeah that is defs also a cool idea

07:53

At least to see if that still feels smoother

yeah but it probably doesn't feel as good

07:54

idk if there is any perfect solution, I think there probably isn't because the game will always run on 50tps steps

yep

heinrich5991

they dont reach out to us for months until they leaked it & then the fun begins.

@Avolicious what's the fun there? going back and cleaning up the malicious logins?

They forget their e-mail they used, mostly creating new discord accounts, so its hard to verify if they are the real owner of this account

07:55

This is the "fun" part

ah

07:55

so it does happen

Tater

idk if there is any perfect solution, I think there probably isn't because the game will always run on 50tps steps

There can be no perfect solution to prediction, it’s a prediction after all

let's hope there's less of this with steam-bound accounts

Unless you invent time travel I guess

well this is like a meta sub-tick prediction where you try to fake a higher tickrate

07:56

you're predicting where the tee will be in 0.5 ticks from now

heinrich5991

let's hope there's less of this with steam-bound accounts

I was also thinking of linking steam accounts too

Tater

you're predicting where the tee will be in 0.5 ticks from now

But it still increases the odds of a mispredict by predicting at all

well if you don't predict there cannot be a mispredict

07:57

so infinity% increase in odds

Exaclty, and thus less jitter

Learath2

But it still increases the odds of a mispredict by predicting at all

Tbf "normal" prediction almost always works for the local tee. This one always breaks it even for the local tee

07:58

fast input is like a bet

07:58

that u don't change the direction xD

also you pay 20ms ping penalty if you have antiping on for the privilege to make this bet

Jupstar ✪

Tbf "normal" prediction almost always works for the local tee. This one always breaks it even for the local tee

If it always breaks you might be doing something wrong. Afaik, the client technically actually has all the information needed to pretend there is 0 ping and even do this subtick fakery perfectly. As long as it’s the local tee and there are no other tees in the way

Learath2

If it always breaks you might be doing something wrong. Afaik, the client technically actually has all the information needed to pretend there is 0 ping and even do this subtick fakery perfectly. As long as it’s the local tee and there are no other tees in the way

this isnt anti ping

08:00

this is predicting the future

08:00

i also call it future prediction

08:01

it doesnt have enough info inside the sub tick

All predictions are by definition about the future, it’s just that you are using a different reference time

so it kinda has to hope the input doesnt change during the same sub tick

Learath2

All predictions are by definition about the future, it’s just that you are using a different reference time

Yeah but, normally u talk about ticks here u talk about subticks

08:02

in some sense, if u say 1 tick is 1 time unit. then this doesn't make sense

regular prediction is just the client pretending to be the server, this is like trying to know what the next tick will be before the server or the client knows

heinrich5991

does regeneration of the ingame login invalidate the old token?

Ah, and we have people trying to iterate over login codes

08:04

Generating them randomly & trying to login

Jupstar ✪

so it kinda has to hope the input doesnt change during the same sub tick

Why don’t you stay behind one subtick at all times? Then you will never get jitter from this and you will only be 1 subtick behind of “truth”

Avolicious

Ah, and we have people trying to iterate over login codes

lmao

Avolicious

Ah, and we have people trying to iterate over login codes

I thought the login codes are huge, why would anyone even attempt that

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Avolicious

Generating them randomly & trying to login

Kids ™️

It gets detected anyways

08:05

then they open a ticket & ask why they cant login

1

08:05

Seen that a few times now

08:05

Learath2

Why don’t you stay behind one subtick at all times? Then you will never get jitter from this and you will only be 1 subtick behind of “truth”

u'd need to be 1 tick behind. in other words, u get what ddnet is doing rn anyway

08:05

well up to 1 tick

08:06

to be precise

to be fair I think all games do it how ddnet does it atm, it's sort of the objectively correct way to do it

I don’t seem to have the right words to convey this. Worry not, I’ll show you how when I make ddnet-asm

idk what minecraft does tho

guys, who knows how to add such a thing to their server, or create their own???

1

somehow it runs at 20tps and I don't think the client has any input lag or server desyncs

Tater

to be fair I think all games do it how ddnet does it atm, it's sort of the objectively correct way to do it

yeah, normally games simply do more ticks if u need better gameplay xd

Tater

to be fair I think all games do it how ddnet does it atm, it's sort of the objectively correct way to do it

A fair bit of games just let the client run their own simulation entirely and they trust the client for it mostly

true

Jupstar ✪

yeah, normally games simply do more ticks if u need better gameplay xd

And in CS case the server and client can negotiate the tick-rate

i think minecraft also trusts the client?

08:08

at least in past u could just fly xD

Jupstar ✪

i think minecraft also trusts the client?

This would be my guess with all the rampant cheating

it's not so simple

08:08

the minecraft client and server have a complex relationship

08:08

a highly janky one

time for minetee, the better minecraft

https://wiki.vg/Main_Page

@Avolicious is it a secret how your login tokens are generated?

08:09

like what algo

Algo = os.random

i see so just random bytes, 32?

Yep

08:10

No need for complex computing

МотКот

guys, who knows how to add such a thing to their server, or create their own???

who knows???

yeah, that is defs unbreakable for any normal player

ok wtf

08:10

minecraft has 50ms input delay??

08:10

The physics engine runs at 20 ticks per second, meaning the game's physics are updated every 50ms. This includes the player’s position and speed, the environment, and entities. In-game actions are performed at the end of each tick, regardless of the time or order in which they were called. Due to the game working this way, inputs may take up to 50ms of delay between the button press and their activation.

i mean in 3d everything feels different anyway

idk how I never noticed it

08:11

I guess you get used to it

guys help please

also minecraft is kinda slow

jumping is a fast action

if it would add osu gameplay u'd probs notice it easier xdd

Jupstar ✪

yeah, that is defs unbreakable for any normal player

We detect bruteforce attacks & block the ip

So yeah, its pretty unbreakable

Avolicious

We detect bruteforce attacks & block the ip

So yeah, its pretty unbreakable

i guess even without it would be unbreakable, but yeah that makes it impossible

Tater

The physics engine runs at 20 ticks per second, meaning the game's physics are updated every 50ms. This includes the player’s position and speed, the environment, and entities. In-game actions are performed at the end of each tick, regardless of the time or order in which they were called. Due to the game working this way, inputs may take up to 50ms of delay between the button press and their activation.

https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia might be interesting tho

I think some crypto wallets might use less bits than the kog login token

also kog servers need to actively report if the token was correct. that alone is a rate limit

yes

Jupstar ✪

also kog servers need to actively report if the token was correct. that alone is a rate limit

It works async, so you could theoretically spam login tokens

08:14

As its just a chat message/command

08:14

every chat message/command is an event

08:14

and treated that way

a ed25519 is also just 32bytes long

08:14

and u often have the public key to it

МотКот

guys, who knows how to add such a thing to their server, or create their own???

1) you need to come up with a name for the community 2) draw a logo sized 128x64 3) launch about 20 servers with a Linear map 4) wait until there are 30-40 people online 5) create a request to add a community via GitHub https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues or Discord bot #✉-create-a-ticket

Avolicious

https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia might be interesting tho

idk this is a lot of work to get a less stable version which doesn't support plugins and still only has 2x-3x total players

Jupstar ✪

yeah, that is defs unbreakable for any normal player

It’s probably unbreakable period. I don’t imagine any modern linux kernel shipping with subpar /dev/urandom

Tater

idk this is a lot of work to get a less stable version which doesn't support plugins and still only has 2x-3x total players

Paper is fairly stable, Folia is just an addition

Matodor

1) you need to come up with a name for the community 2) draw a logo sized 128x64 3) launch about 20 servers with a Linear map 4) wait until there are 30-40 people online 5) create a request to add a community via GitHub https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues or Discord bot #✉-create-a-ticket

thank you, I'll try

1

Avolicious

Paper is fairly stable, Folia is just an addition

did you read the github?

08:16

Current broken API Most API that interacts with portals / respawning players / some player login API is broken. ALL scoreboard API is considered broken (this is global state that I've not figured out how to properly implement yet) World loading/unloading Entity#teleport. This will NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE come back, use teleportAsync Could be more

Tater

The physics engine runs at 20 ticks per second, meaning the game's physics are updated every 50ms. This includes the player’s position and speed, the environment, and entities. In-game actions are performed at the end of each tick, regardless of the time or order in which they were called. Due to the game working this way, inputs may take up to 50ms of delay between the button press and their activation.

Conclusive proof that tickrate isn’t that important. It’s all in the brains of impressionable young men

Matodor

1) you need to come up with a name for the community 2) draw a logo sized 128x64 3) launch about 20 servers with a Linear map 4) wait until there are 30-40 people online 5) create a request to add a community via GitHub https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues or Discord bot #✉-create-a-ticket

20 servers? and how do people who have only 3 servers create?

МотКот

20 servers? and how do people who have only 3 servers create?

20 for example

Avolicious

Paper is fairly stable, Folia is just an addition

I think Folia is a fork of paper not an addon, it's rewrites the entire engine

Matodor

20 for example

okay

it is cool tho

Tater

I think Folia is a fork of paper not an addon, it's rewrites the entire engine

Folia and Paper is from the same devs

08:17

But yeah, they are adding multithreads to it

08:18

or atleast they try

08:18

but all the minecraft server implementation differ a bit

08:18

from the original implementation

Tater

Current broken API Most API that interacts with portals / respawning players / some player login API is broken. ALL scoreboard API is considered broken (this is global state that I've not figured out how to properly implement yet) World loading/unloading Entity#teleport. This will NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE come back, use teleportAsync Could be more

Did they multithread minecraft?

yes

08:19

it's region based

That’s smart, I wonder how they handled the boundaries of the threads

Learath2

That’s smart, I wonder how they handled the boundaries of the threads

Hardware

08:20

What hardware will Folia run best on? Ideally, at least 16 cores (not threads).

I think it would be cool if there was a multi instance version and associated client mod so you could scale a single world to infinite players at the cost of boundaries

Lets assume they have 16 cores and HT enabled

08:21

Thats an expensive server tho

I meant as in how they handled something crossing the boundary from one threads authoritative region to the other

I think it's dynamic

08:22

For a server with many spread out players, Folia will create many spread out regions and tick them all in parallel on a configurable sized threadpool. Thus, Folia should scale well for servers like this.

contention incoming

https://docs.papermc.io/folia/reference/region-logic

i wonder how fast it would be in a system programming language

08:23

java is always like twice as slow xd

it appears to be very complicated (edited)

Tater

For a server with many spread out players, Folia will create many spread out regions and tick them all in parallel on a configurable sized threadpool. Thus, Folia should scale well for servers like this.

Hm, this sounds very hard to do, I’ll have to read it

I agree and it looks like they tried very hard

Inter-region operations Inter-region operations refer to operations that work with other regions that are not the current ticking region that are in a completely unknown state. These regions may be transient, may be ticking, or may not even exist.

Stuff like redstone crossing the boundary sounds impossible to handle properly

they probably do not care

08:25

paper does not even have vanilla redstone mechanics normally

hi, what should I do if I was banned for a bot client, but I don't use it and no CFGs, please help

YourParanoia

hi, what should I do if I was banned for a bot client, but I don't use it and no CFGs, please help

were you using any custom client

no

08:34

client or stiam

08:34

steam*

for how long did you get banned

1 day , next time for a year , I don 't want to , it 's a Varna - type system

08:35

\

it should be a week next time if i remember correctly

YourParanoia

\

if you are 100% certain u used steam version. #✉-create-a-ticket -> ban appeal But be prepared to be rejected

okey

08:37

thanks

https://www.reddit.com/r/yuzu/s/5XNp0ISC2i Nintendo going all out

From the yuzu community on Reddit: The creator of Ryujinx, gdkchan,...

Explore this post and more from the yuzu community

Learath2

https://www.reddit.com/r/yuzu/s/5XNp0ISC2i Nintendo going all out

Is this the past?

08:40

Or what is different this time

It's today. They took down another emulator, Ryujinx

Ah I was confused by the yuzu subreddit xD

Oh, yeah the subreddit is still there

morning fellas

ohayou mr ryozuki owo

Learath2

https://www.reddit.com/r/yuzu/s/5XNp0ISC2i Nintendo going all out

fuck Nintendo lmao

who knows how to fix the fact that emotions cannot be spammed on my server?

МотКот

who knows how to fix the fact that emotions cannot be spammed on my server?

https://ddnet.org/settingscommands/

thx

sv_emoticon_ms_delay is probably what u want

@Learath2 what do you think about variable shadowing?

MilkeeyCat

@Learath2 what do you think about variable shadowing?

Idk, no strong opinions on it

MilkeeyCat

@Learath2 what do you think about variable shadowing?

depends on the language, I'd guess

I like it in rust so Ill yoink it to my language xd

https://github.blog/changelog/2024-10-01-evolving-github-issues-public-preview/

Allison

Evolving GitHub Issues (Public Preview) · GitHub Changelog

Evolving GitHub Issues (public preview)

def-

[ddnet-web:master] 1 new commit

1ca1e27 Add BagleR to staff - def-

GitHub

Click to see attachment 🖼️

@Learath2 ? :(

LOL, I guess BagleR got bored of waiting for me to add people

14:49

Ok ok, I'll do it now

14:50

It's your weird name you know. I started adding people, then I couldn't find your player profile link then I stopped

1

xd