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DDraceNetwork / general
This channel is for all Teeworlds/DDNet and related chat. Gameplay questions can be asked here as well rather than in #questions. Ingame screenshots and any other Teeworlds related media goes to #showroom.
Between 2024-09-05 00:00 and 2024-09-06 00:00
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hi
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JUST A SNIPER ツ 2024-09-05 02:19
report ticket are down?
02:20
@DDNet
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that is a bot pinging an admin would be a better solution
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fixed
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тиджой 2024-09-05 06:01
qq all
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RonIn
Hello Dear moderators! I hope next time you will be more consistent to check any teehistorian demo more careful to not call 4hours runs as a TAS 🫵 lol 🫵
Did you make multiple finishes with different names? That alone should be worthy of a ban, it's extremely annoying having to clean those up all the time
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ChillerDragon BOT 2024-09-05 08:10
Since when is finishing with multiple names a reason for banning? @deen do these ranks really get deleted?
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ChillerDragon
Since when is finishing with multiple names a reason for banning? @deen do these ranks really get deleted?
catseyenebulous 2024-09-05 08:30
Multiple names is not a problem I think but spamming the top ranks with it is.
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ChillerDragon
Since when is finishing with multiple names a reason for banning? @deen do these ranks really get deleted?
justatest
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xewoiy
justatest
catseyenebulous 2024-09-05 08:37
ggbanhammer (edited)
08:39
How come the old ranks are not being overwritten?
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its probably technically different names
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honestly just delete them all at this point
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exy
kestu raconte c'est toi qui me rejoins tout le temps
crois pas tes le centre du monde par contre je rejoin le serveur et non une personne :D
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tahiou
si j'avais un zeub tu t'étoufferais avec
mon reve
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catseyenebulous
How come the old ranks are not being overwritten?
changing eng letters like a,p,o,x,H,B,c,e,T,m with rus
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Thats cringe
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catseyenebulous 2024-09-05 09:24
Indeed.
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xewoiy
changing eng letters like a,p,o,x,H,B,c,e,T,m with rus
catseyenebulous 2024-09-05 09:26
I'm telling you now rather than later: Don't do that please. Admins will have to remove those ranks now which is unnecessary work.
👍 1
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ItsL
@exy_55 viens pas me cassez les couille pour ne rien dire dire . Vas dire à tes cleps dallez bien ce faire foutre (edited)
I don't understand what are you saying
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deen
Did you make multiple finishes with different names? That alone should be worthy of a ban, it's extremely annoying having to clean those up all the time
Does it mean u can't finish for people banhammer who helps you doing ur rank and without them it wouldn't be possible? cammo (it's not this case, but i'm just asking saddo ) I thought all the ranks were wiped on suspicion of tas think_bot cuz r1 wasn't transferred to main name feelsbadman but if u done it as punishment nobot i understand bluekitty Are there any rules that i can read wiki and no longer commit such sin? nouis
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RonIn
Does it mean u can't finish for people banhammer who helps you doing ur rank and without them it wouldn't be possible? cammo (it's not this case, but i'm just asking saddo ) I thought all the ranks were wiped on suspicion of tas think_bot cuz r1 wasn't transferred to main name feelsbadman but if u done it as punishment nobot i understand bluekitty Are there any rules that i can read wiki and no longer commit such sin? nouis
n9drunk
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zhn
n9drunk
I've not been drinking alco for exactly 1506 days gigachad
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RonIn
I've not been drinking alco for exactly 1506 days gigachad
baked u rn
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n9 cracking the code
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RonIn
Does it mean u can't finish for people banhammer who helps you doing ur rank and without them it wouldn't be possible? cammo (it's not this case, but i'm just asking saddo ) I thought all the ranks were wiped on suspicion of tas think_bot cuz r1 wasn't transferred to main name feelsbadman but if u done it as punishment nobot i understand bluekitty Are there any rules that i can read wiki and no longer commit such sin? nouis
So you expect us to be nice about it and move all the spammed ranks to your name afterwards as a thank you for the extra work you gave the admins?
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аратич 2024-09-05 10:30
🆒 1
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n9 rediscovering common sense greenthing
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people like him are the reason we dont have accounts yet!!
brownbear 1
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deen
So you expect us to be nice about it and move all the spammed ranks to your name afterwards as a thank you for the extra work you gave the admins?
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cyberfighter 2 2024-09-05 11:00
dont make deen angry
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^☆CCF☆^ ( 's version) 2024-09-05 11:17
why ppl keep sending address on gen 😭
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ScReeNy
people like him are the reason we dont have accounts yet!!
become better than him and say "we need accounts" (edited)
11:20
ez way
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DDNet RUS1 - Novice Address: ddnet://37.230.162.50:8355 My IGN: NEI
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RonIn
Does it mean u can't finish for people banhammer who helps you doing ur rank and without them it wouldn't be possible? cammo (it's not this case, but i'm just asking saddo ) I thought all the ranks were wiped on suspicion of tas think_bot cuz r1 wasn't transferred to main name feelsbadman but if u done it as punishment nobot i understand bluekitty Are there any rules that i can read wiki and no longer commit such sin? nouis
can i bind it?
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no u should pay for copy it
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manikoo
no u should pay for copy it
oh :C
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or just select text and press ctrl+c
11:24
try
11:24
maybe u can
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NEI
DDNet RUS1 - Novice Address: ddnet://37.230.162.50:8355 My IGN: NEI
Stop spamming with server ips here. Use voice channel text chat
🇼 2
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btw General 1 vc chat is locked.
11:45
check general 2, it's being used correctly, i think general 1 could be unlocked too
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RonIn
Does it mean u can't finish for people banhammer who helps you doing ur rank and without them it wouldn't be possible? cammo (it's not this case, but i'm just asking saddo ) I thought all the ranks were wiped on suspicion of tas think_bot cuz r1 wasn't transferred to main name feelsbadman but if u done it as punishment nobot i understand bluekitty Are there any rules that i can read wiki and no longer commit such sin? nouis
I hope it's satire towards deen, cuz rules state you cannot do that, like years ago and people got punished for it, regardless of what you think about it
11:54
Rules state that you are not allowed to finish on behalf of another player's name, unless the name's is yours to behold
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Cellegen
Rules state that you are not allowed to finish on behalf of another player's name, unless the name's is yours to behold
so where u found that rule?
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they told me and others, again, years ago
11:55
Same with Aoe, same with other guys
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Cellegen
Same with Aoe, same with other guys
They told me that as well bro
11:56
i'm hyprocrite
11:56
What can u do with that (edited)
11:56
🫵 lol
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So, even if an admin says you cannot do that, you'd ignore his request cuz it's not there?
11:57
Well your choise on how you wanna get punished imo
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tbf if anyone is getting punished for that, then rules should be updated to clearly state that rather than a semi unwritten rule that people may or may not act on imo
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I mean it would be nice to have those rules be written somewhere, maybe even with an exlanation (fake ranks are destroying the competetiveness of the game)
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Broso56
tbf if anyone is getting punished for that, then rules should be updated to clearly state that rather than a semi unwritten rule that people may or may not act on imo
until accounts are in place, it doesn't really need a statement, cuz it's just common sense to people
11:58
those who intentionally want to find out loopholes to do some unhinged activities care about it
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So, would it count if u went in top20 rankpoints with different names, but got rankpoints from different maps?
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well would giving finishes to those who request it still be against the rules?
banhammer 1
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RonIn
So, would it count if u went in top20 rankpoints with different names, but got rankpoints from different maps?
The reason deen would ban a person for finishing maps in another existing player's name which is not yours, is that the other person didn't finish it and it's not how ddnet should work in the first place. Deen would ban you in case of continuing this behaviour cuz as he said, he needs to clean up after you, deleting the ranks you finished for another player (edited)
12:00
i asked u another question
12:00
answer (edited)
12:01
If i hold 2 different names
12:01
i don't wanna transfer my points and etc
12:01
and went in top20 teamrankpoints/rankpoints
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If you have another name which is actually yours and finished maps with it, and that is the only name you finished with it, it's fine
12:02
Idk about transfering points, it's not rule based or anything
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Cellegen
If you have another name which is actually yours and finished maps with it, and that is the only name you finished with it, it's fine
Okay
12:02
heartw
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Just, about finishing maps with other players' names
12:02
it's shit
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Cellegen
Just, about finishing maps with other players' names
not really bro
12:03
it's uncleared
12:03
What if u were running in big team, and half of it dead?
12:03
Can't u finish for them for real? (edited)
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I don't think so
12:03
U wanna wipe half of ddnet finishes with that rule xD
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First, how it would look like in a demo? 2 same names have a run, one of them dies, one of them finishes... in an admin's perspective, which one is true?
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Cellegen
First, how it would look like in a demo? 2 same names have a run, one of them dies, one of them finishes... in an admin's perspective, which one is true?
Depends on the map
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Not on the player?
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And if the second guy truly played that map and didn't stay at start and changed his name in the end of run to avoid the rule
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I would think, unless the player truly consents of a switch, inside a team, perhaps...
12:05
Otherwise, not rly
12:06
I would say, the only reason it would be a bad thing, is whenever you want to give that win for someone else outside the team
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We were playing 4k yesterday and i killed @meloƞ in the end of map, i finished for him, so u wanna wipe this teamrank now?
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Cellegen
I would say, the only reason it would be a bad thing, is whenever you want to give that win for someone else outside the team
Good point
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But again, otherwise it's just not a fair ingagement
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Cellegen
Same with Aoe, same with other guys
Someone please finish Cliff Charge for me
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DDNet servers could actually detect whenever the name change happens, it could have a condition whenever it's on a team and the name change matches with your teammates' names at run start
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CBA ngl 😄
12:08
start a run, kill, then let others finish u idk
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Cellegen
DDNet servers could actually detect whenever the name change happens, it could have a condition whenever it's on a team and the name change matches with your teammates' names at run start
It's better if someday account system exists
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@RonIn Mind you, regardless of what I think about it, it's never a good thing to listen to me
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RonIn
It's better if someday account system exists
In kog u will be banned if finished for others
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listen to Deen instead
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RonIn
It's better if someday account system exists
I share password with you for sure and you finsih starkiller maps for me ok?
greenthing 2
12:09
50 euro each
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Aoe
I share password with you for sure and you finsih starkiller maps for me ok?
It kog u gonna be banned same way xd
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if u share ur account with someone
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mega trolls
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Aoe
50 euro each
deal kek
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I just hope I can play with fakename once account system gets released
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Aoe
I just hope I can play with fakename once account system gets released
+
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I mean if.. 😦
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Aoe plays > getting ddosed
12:10
It's not fun
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Aoe
I just hope I can play with fakename once account system gets released
like an Alias of names randomly getting selected as you join server?
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Cellegen
like an Alias of names randomly getting selected as you join server?
what is tihs rng will set Cellegen name for me????
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Nah not necessarily.. Just being able to change my name or maybe an anonymous mode of some kind?
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yeah anonymous mode would be perfect for it
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Nameless tee mode 😄
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having 64 tee related alias names to cycle from and randomly having one at server join, ez
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Would u be able join ur account and change ur name in half of the map then?
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If there would be an actual way for ddnet devs to detect proper name changes happening during the run, it might have a better system to prevent my own statements from happening
12:14
such as finishing for only team members that were on the team (and probably played for half the recent time frame) (edited)
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Imagine you log in, you play with fake name and you finish map with fake name. But it counts towards your real name 😮
poggers2 1
✅ 1
12:14
So you dont have to change name at end
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Account wouldn't let u to finish with different names sound good
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Aoe
Imagine you log in, you play with fake name and you finish map with fake name. But it counts towards your real name 😮
that was how I imagined it, it would be stupid af to finish AS an alias
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Ye that would be nice
12:16
Is login going to be mandatory once it gets released or will you let people play without accounts?
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migration possibility
🇰 1
🇴 1
🇬 1
nope 2
12:16
or the most insane but refreshing senario, point resets
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Cellegen
migration possibility
The more people come the harder it's getting to migrate in future
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ye
12:17
In order to have ddnet 2.0, we need an engine 2.0 as welll
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Aoe
Is login going to be mandatory once it gets released or will you let people play without accounts?
I would guess it will be mandatory. One of the reasons we need accounts is for moderation reasons. If anyone could still play we would have the same issues we have now ^^'
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Cellegen
In order to have ddnet 2.0, we need an engine 2.0 as welll
ddnet 20.0 justatest
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Devinci
I would guess it will be mandatory. One of the reasons we need accounts is for moderation reasons. If anyone could still play we would have the same issues we have now ^^'
Oh ye that would make bans etc alot easier
12:18
And might prevent just changing your ip?
12:18
Unless someone just makes new accs xD
12:18
But would be nice to have servers with 1000+ points etc then
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 12:18
You'll also be able to play without any account
✅ 1
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Jupstar ✪
You'll also be able to play without any account
Oh fr? then I am just confused. Wasn't moderation one of the biggest reasons we asked them?
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 12:19
Also the ingame name can be changed as wanted even with account. but the finish counts towards the account
poggers2 3
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shouldn't there be server for only accounts then
gigachad 5
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if you dont want ur messages to get lost in time, i suggest to use the #deleted-channel post
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Devinci
Oh fr? then I am just confused. Wasn't moderation one of the biggest reasons we asked them?
Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 12:20
It could still be discussed wether accounts could be a must have in specific conditions (e.g. playing non novice or whatever). But if newcomers open the game, they should be able to play the game without an account. (edited)
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Aoe
Unless someone just makes new accs xD
not exactly, you may not have the same name under different ips, unless the original (or previous account) confirms it
12:21
or the server
12:21
f.e, if you got banned you cannot have another account use that name
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An incentive to make an account could be that you only gain points when finishing on an account instead of the free to play
✅ 1
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Jupstar ✪
It could still be discussed wether accounts could be a must have in specific conditions (e.g. playing non novice or whatever). But if newcomers open the game, they should be able to play the game without an account. (edited)
Fair enough. I just hope we will at least be able to have what paradise said.
shouldn't there be server for only accounts then
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 12:22
As soon as accounts landed we can still think about such stuff, but the first version focuses on getting them in at all
👍 4
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Ryu
An incentive to make an account could be that you only gain points when finishing on an account instead of the free to play
Yes, encouraging people to register an account to finish maps is indeed a valid move
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 12:22
Before we add 3000 features and it's never done
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cant wait to see proper implementation of it
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Jupstar ✪
As soon as accounts landed we can still think about such stuff, but the first version focuses on getting them in at all
So accounts are actually coming? I havent really been following the town hall post
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Aoe
So accounts are actually coming? I havent really been following the town hall post
Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 12:25
The account system is 95% done. What is missing and I can not tell the progress is secure connections between the client and the game servers. Which is not done by me
poggers 5
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Wow 😮 Nice
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Previous time people expected toooooo much from this system, so the topic was closed. Account system doesn’t need a bunch of millions features at start of its existing, it’s possible to add features step by step feelsbadman
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 12:27
With account system here I mean that you can finish a map with an account. There is still the questions how /rank /top5 etc display the account information. But these things are easier to change afterwards, once the account information is linked to the finishes. Because that is the crucial information needed
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^☆CCF☆^ ( 's version) 2024-09-05 12:31
accounts for 18.6 update? ;0
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 12:32
no
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^☆CCF☆^ ( 's version) 2024-09-05 12:32
grr
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 12:32
What is missing and I can not tell the progress is secure connections between the client and the game servers. Which is not done by me
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أنا لا أعطي اللعنة 2024-09-05 12:32
guys who have ddnet version 16.1 plz give me it owo
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Are you going to be able to login with client? Or is it going to be text based like KoG?
👀 1
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Aoe
Are you going to be able to login with client? Or is it going to be text based like KoG?
Avolicious 2024-09-05 12:33
DDNet can go for client-side integration, KoG cant
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Aoe
Are you going to be able to login with client? Or is it going to be text based like KoG?
Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 12:35
For email login it's this: https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/293493549758939136/1264968518319997043 For steam it's basically simply clicking "Login with steam"
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Would be sick if it logged in from Steam 😮
12:35
Oh lmao nice
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RonIn
We were playing 4k yesterday and i killed @meloƞ in the end of map, i finished for him, so u wanna wipe this teamrank now?
please don't justatest justatest justatest justatest justatest justatest justatest
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is there a fight going on
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Avolicious
DDNet can go for client-side integration, KoG cant
I wish to see the general planned structure of the client side Integration - would be interesting to see if this is something that could be used by other communities as well (Blockworlds / KoG) etc
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meloƞ
I wish to see the general planned structure of the client side Integration - would be interesting to see if this is something that could be used by other communities as well (Blockworlds / KoG) etc
Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 12:45
DDNet's accounts work on all game servers
12:45
Directly
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kekw I have to rewrite BW source a third time
saddo 1
12:45
pepeW
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 12:45
Yes you need the secure server connection patch
12:46
Good luck rebasing against 0.7 change lol
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Jupstar ✪
Good luck rebasing against 0.7 change lol
xd
12:47
still sitting on 17.4 for a reason greenthing
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meloƞ
still sitting on 17.4 for a reason greenthing
Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 12:47
We both know the better ddnet anyway 😏
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Jupstar ✪
We both know the better ddnet anyway 😏
gigachad
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 12:48
Your 4th rewrite
12:48
xd
12:48
Oh shit boss coming - ttyl
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spur
is there a fight going on
I would start a fight with u on my bed buddy owo
🔥 1
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meloƞ
I wish to see the general planned structure of the client side Integration - would be interesting to see if this is something that could be used by other communities as well (Blockworlds / KoG) etc
Avolicious 2024-09-05 12:48
The implementation of this account system is built for ddnet. There are several questions open/unanswered
  • What happens if this service is not available due to maintenance?
  • How are account terminations handled?
  • How can we ensure the integrity of this system - currently its based on trust As KoG currently has 2 account systems ( old + new ) - thats why the migration phase - adding another one doesnt sound intuitive.
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RonIn
I would start a fight with u on my bed buddy owo
thonk
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RonIn
I would start a fight with u on my bed buddy owo
mom and dad are wrestling again
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RonIn
I would start a fight with u on my bed buddy owo
when where widePeepoHappy
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How can I fix the problem of not being able to log into Ger10 servers?
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podven0
How can I fix the problem of not being able to log into Ger10 servers?
You need to visit http://ger10.ddnet.org/ before joining a GER10 server.'
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Thanks
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cyberfighter 2 2024-09-05 12:52
theres a chance it still doesnt work
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What do I do if it doesn't work?
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^☆CCF☆^ ( 's version) 2024-09-05 12:54
how do i activate the new mapping thingy that when you change smt in the map in changes at the moment on the server owo
12:56
nvm me smart figurated out
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hot_reload ?
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Souly
hot_reload ?
^☆CCF☆^ ( 's version) 2024-09-05 12:57
yeah i forgot i can read for a min
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Avolicious
The implementation of this account system is built for ddnet. There are several questions open/unanswered
  • What happens if this service is not available due to maintenance?
  • How are account terminations handled?
  • How can we ensure the integrity of this system - currently its based on trust As KoG currently has 2 account systems ( old + new ) - thats why the migration phase - adding another one doesnt sound intuitive.
Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 13:02
1. There can be multiple account servers. If all are down, a client's certificate signed by the account server still is valid a few hours probably. Additionally the game server could still link finishes to the account later using the public key fingerprint of the client cert. The client's private key is as the name suggests private. So not even ddnet's account server knows about it and thus can not fake generate client certificates for a TLS client auth handshake. 2. Since no private information is leaked to game servers they theoretically don't need it, but we can still think about keeping a list of deleted accounts on the account server. 3. It's based on trust just like all account systems. If i hack google I can also sign into stuff with it. The client's private key could be used on its own to re-identify the client, So in theory you could even use the whole account system without trusting ddnet by "authing" the client's public key finger print (which cannot be faked in TLS client auth handshakes). That ddnet's account server gives you a unique account id is a service to make it easier for game servers to integrate the account system without interaction of the user. (edited)
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Jupstar ✪
1. There can be multiple account servers. If all are down, a client's certificate signed by the account server still is valid a few hours probably. Additionally the game server could still link finishes to the account later using the public key fingerprint of the client cert. The client's private key is as the name suggests private. So not even ddnet's account server knows about it and thus can not fake generate client certificates for a TLS client auth handshake. 2. Since no private information is leaked to game servers they theoretically don't need it, but we can still think about keeping a list of deleted accounts on the account server. 3. It's based on trust just like all account systems. If i hack google I can also sign into stuff with it. The client's private key could be used on its own to re-identify the client, So in theory you could even use the whole account system without trusting ddnet by "authing" the client's public key finger print (which cannot be faked in TLS client auth handshakes). That ddnet's account server gives you a unique account id is a service to make it easier for game servers to integrate the account system without interaction of the user. (edited)
Avolicious 2024-09-05 13:03
That ddnet's account server gives you a unique account id is a service to make it easier for game servers to integrate the account system without interaction of the user.
Its just easier for ddnet and the users, but not the case for every project
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 13:06
If you think that extra user interactions are better, then that is totally fine to me, do as you please. But ddnet's account system will work like that and the user will not have to interact/login anywhere except once in the client for all game servers that use this system. So I'd say it's at least easy to use as an end user (edited)
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Avolicious 2024-09-05 13:06
? I just stated exactly your statement 😄
Its just easier for ddnet and the users,
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 13:07
And I just stated that it will not suite every project and that is by design
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Avolicious 2024-09-05 13:08
But I did this as well?
but not the case for every project
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 13:08
And why did you write this sentence at all then?
13:08
You clearly implied you don't like to use it for KoG
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Avolicious 2024-09-05 13:09
Because it adds another account system, where we dont have any sort of control. Yes, we can host our own account server, but then we have to tell people to change something in the client -> extra user interaction
13:10
But thats fair enough, because its DDNet Client and DDNet Servers
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 13:10
I can just suggest you to do what you think is better for your project. If you think another account system sucks for KoG, then don't use it at all
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Avolicious 2024-09-05 13:10
Yeah, we wont use it
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 13:10
Alright
13:12
But as soon as the account system hit and ppl complain that KoG doesn't want to use it, don't blame DDNet. The account system is designed to work for all game servers. That's a simple fact. The fact that you don't like that design is a different problem. You can still do a KoG client if you prefer a better version for accounts on KoG.
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Avolicious 2024-09-05 13:16
The account system is designed to work for all game server
It obv. doesnt work for all gameservers. You need gameserver support & you need to adopt your account policy, so it does work only for DDNet servers or servers that implemented support for it.
The fact that you don't like that design is a different problem
Because your "design" implies that users have to create an account at DDNet, which is fine if the users uses DDNet as client.
You can still do a KoG client if you prefer a better version for accounts on KoG.
This is absolutely being taken out of context. There are several forks of DDNet out there, but its not part of this discussion
13:17
To sum up: Its fair enough for DDNet and players playing on DDNet servers. Adding sovereignty to each community adds complexity
13:18
I never blamed the system nor the decision, I just had and have open questions 🙂
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Aoe
Nah not necessarily.. Just being able to change my name or maybe an anonymous mode of some kind?
stream mode
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Aoe
Imagine you log in, you play with fake name and you finish map with fake name. But it counts towards your real name 😮
that is currently done in kog
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How can I fix Unsported client error?
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podven0
How can I fix Unsported client error?
update ur client (edited)
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why is my game stuttering so much ?
15:01
i tried to limit my fps and everything but nothing works
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everything but nothing kek
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podven0
How can I fix Unsported client error?
Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 15:04
Server has to restart
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chillerdragon BOT 2024-09-05 15:05
Persian servers? Then you need their client to play
Replying to @podven0 How can I fix Unsported client error?
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عبدالرحمن$ 2024-09-05 15:06
hi
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chillerdragon BOT 2024-09-05 15:08
BTW chillerbot-ux has auto rename before finish for that so you don’t have to manually change.
Replying to @Aoe So you dont have to change name at end
15:10
No sharing? But I purchased ddnet family account for the entire household!
Replying to @RonIn It kog u gonna be banned same way xd
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chillerdragon
No sharing? But I purchased ddnet family account for the entire household!
How much for a month?
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Avolicious
The account system is designed to work for all game server
It obv. doesnt work for all gameservers. You need gameserver support & you need to adopt your account policy, so it does work only for DDNet servers or servers that implemented support for it.
The fact that you don't like that design is a different problem
Because your "design" implies that users have to create an account at DDNet, which is fine if the users uses DDNet as client.
You can still do a KoG client if you prefer a better version for accounts on KoG.
This is absolutely being taken out of context. There are several forks of DDNet out there, but its not part of this discussion
What sort of sovereignty are you missing in this system? It provides the absolute minimum, a unique id that is unforgeable. You can use it however you like, you can ban on it, you can store extra data about it. There isn't much that is ddnet specific in there at all
16:08
In fact I can't think of anything
16:10
Even the concept of "Creating an account on ddnet" doesn't make much sense. They would be registering an account on the central account server, they won't even need to connect to a ddnet gameserver or anything
16:12
@Jupstar ✪ I'm not wrong, right?
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Learath2
@Jupstar ✪ I'm not wrong, right?
Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 16:16
The only thing they need is the public key of ddnet's account server to verify the client cert was signed by the ddnet account server. so the account server itself is still a ddnet thing. I guess you could argue if ddnet is evil you could sign fake certs. So if you absolutely don't trust ddnet's account ids, you can still use the public key fingerprint of the client cert, which is validated in the TLS client auth process. This information could be used to create a session for that private key with whatever method you want to use for your accounts.
16:17
(it would at least not require a manual login every time)
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how do i find maps that need 3 or more players
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vote menu have categories if u scrool down will see a something like "maps for 3"
16:33
or just look on wiki.ddnet.org
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lookram
how do i find maps that need 3 or more players
DDNet allows players to play maps in teams with friends without interacting with the rest of the server. All teams are numbered and there are 63 teams available from team 1 to team 63. When joining a server everyone is in team 0 (also called t0) by default and can interact with everyone else in team 0. Some map types like in the Dummy Server cat...
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i guess pretty much every server rn is lagging yea?
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AcoTheBest 2024-09-05 18:44
someone up to speedrun kobra 1 quick? (edited)
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Avolicious
Because it adds another account system, where we dont have any sort of control. Yes, we can host our own account server, but then we have to tell people to change something in the client -> extra user interaction
you already are essentially insisting that they bind something for logon
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Ewan
you already are essentially insisting that they bind something for logon
Avolicious 2024-09-05 19:52
Because there is no proper client support, how else should we solve this issue? I am curious now
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Learath2
Even the concept of "Creating an account on ddnet" doesn't make much sense. They would be registering an account on the central account server, they won't even need to connect to a ddnet gameserver or anything
Avolicious 2024-09-05 19:59
They would be registering an account on the central account server
We never had central accounts, all communities had to create their own account system to have accounts in this game. Now the main argument is to "protect the users data", but its actually up to the user where he wants to register. With your idea, DDNet users would be in a centralized database. Please dont sell it as "for all gameservers" feature if it isnt.
  • All gameservers would need proper support or change their current login mechanism to support this login method.
  • All gameservers need to accept "signed data" from a server that is controlled by ddnet.
I havent said its a bad idea nor I blamed anyone for deciding it. Its your client & your network, so you have control over it - but please also respect that there might be networks who dont want to "trust" blindfolded what a "sessionserver" just signed.
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как конфиг засейвить?
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admin fng pls krx var
20:48
admin lazım
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Avolicious
They would be registering an account on the central account server
We never had central accounts, all communities had to create their own account system to have accounts in this game. Now the main argument is to "protect the users data", but its actually up to the user where he wants to register. With your idea, DDNet users would be in a centralized database. Please dont sell it as "for all gameservers" feature if it isnt.
  • All gameservers would need proper support or change their current login mechanism to support this login method.
  • All gameservers need to accept "signed data" from a server that is controlled by ddnet.
I havent said its a bad idea nor I blamed anyone for deciding it. Its your client & your network, so you have control over it - but please also respect that there might be networks who dont want to "trust" blindfolded what a "sessionserver" just signed.
It is for all gameservers that want to use it. You don't want to support it, that's your prerogative. Don't make strawman arguments. It's a very open setup that's very extensible. Our session server would just provide a signature that the user holds the private key and that key maps to a certain ddnet user id. There is no trust needed at all, if you don't trust us you can verify the client key yourself.
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Learath2
It is for all gameservers that want to use it. You don't want to support it, that's your prerogative. Don't make strawman arguments. It's a very open setup that's very extensible. Our session server would just provide a signature that the user holds the private key and that key maps to a certain ddnet user id. There is no trust needed at all, if you don't trust us you can verify the client key yourself.
Avolicious 2024-09-05 21:30
Our session server would just provide a signature that the user holds the private key and that key maps to a certain ddnet user id. There is no trust needed at all, if you don't trust us you can verify the client key yourself.
How should we verify the key ourselves? If your server signs it? 😄
(edited)
21:32
Why wasnt OAuth sufficient?
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As far as I'm aware the key is also part of the initial TLS connection, you can verify it just fine
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Avolicious
Why wasnt OAuth sufficient?
Exactly because we didn't want to be a central authority if we can avoid it
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Avolicious 2024-09-05 21:33
?????
21:33
But you know that OAuth2 is just a standard?
21:33
Every community that wants accounts just provide a .well-known/openid-configuration and then you can pick the login url from there
21:34
Its registered in the masterserver
21:35
You can even federate accounts if you want to connect two communities
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It was discussed extensively on github, on here, for months. If you are truly curious you can just read up. I'm not going to reiterate everything again. I'm very happy with what we ended up with. It's extensible, transparent, has very nice UX and can be used by any gameserver that wants to use it.
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Lil Motive Vert 2024-09-05 21:38
Abi ne zaman geliyor
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Learath2
It was discussed extensively on github, on here, for months. If you are truly curious you can just read up. I'm not going to reiterate everything again. I'm very happy with what we ended up with. It's extensible, transparent, has very nice UX and can be used by any gameserver that wants to use it.
Avolicious 2024-09-05 21:38
I never questioned that its good for the users nor for ddnet 🙂
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Don't go around making false claims about how it's "not for every gameserver", you just want to have your own, which is fine. It's your server
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Learath2
Don't go around making false claims about how it's "not for every gameserver", you just want to have your own, which is fine. It's your server
Avolicious 2024-09-05 21:39
Thats not a false claim, lol
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It 100% is
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Avolicious 2024-09-05 21:40
But dont get me wrong.
But as soon as the account system hit and ppl complain that KoG doesn't want to use it, don't blame DDNet. - Jupstar
This sounds like we have to use it - otherwise we should just keep silent.
21:40
I am not going to use the account system nor blame anyone for the implementation
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Avolicious
Why wasnt OAuth sufficient?
Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 21:41
You had 2 years time to contribute 😉
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YOU not wanting to implement it has nothing to do with how we implemented it or what we implemented
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 21:41
I'd claim that OAuth is very hard to use, and the concept is pretty bloated => many implementation bugs
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Learath2
YOU not wanting to implement it has nothing to do with how we implemented it or what we implemented
Avolicious 2024-09-05 21:42
Because we already have an account system. We are migrating from a 2019 account system, to our new system now for about a year.
21:43
Now we would have to "support" this account system as well to use it, which is absolutely confusing. But as I said, its your client, your network, so its the best user experience for them
21:44
If a user downloads a bad-client ( not going to name any ) and then their key gets stolen, how can they get their account back?
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Avolicious
If a user downloads a bad-client ( not going to name any ) and then their key gets stolen, how can they get their account back?
Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 21:44
They can log out all sessions
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Avolicious 2024-09-05 21:45
How?
21:45
Their key gets stolen
21:45
How should they notice?
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 21:45
E.g. with email logins, they generate a logout request for that email
21:45
if he also looses his email, he is doomed
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Avolicious 2024-09-05 21:45
Ah, good to know.
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 21:46
Stealing keys won't be enough btw. On windows we read a key from the registry, so the attacker needs that too.
21:46
At least for signing on the account server
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Jupstar ✪
Stealing keys won't be enough btw. On windows we read a key from the registry, so the attacker needs that too.
Avolicious 2024-09-05 21:46
This bad clients are mostly ddnet forks 😄
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Avolicious
This bad clients are mostly ddnet forks 😄
Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 21:47
Against viruses nothing is safe xd
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Avolicious 2024-09-05 21:48
Thats true, I just want to know the workflow. The bad-client rate increases
21:48
people try new clients, then they open a support ticket because they lost their key
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Avolicious
This bad clients are mostly ddnet forks 😄
Even now there are such clients, they just steal other information, so this is not an argument
21:49
WHAT
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Avolicious 2024-09-05 21:49
But we have control over our random "password" strings 🙂
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Avolicious
people try new clients, then they open a support ticket because they lost their key
Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 21:49
Yeah I mean it depends on what you can do with that information. But they simply do a logout request, which invalidates all sessions on the account server and then they can log in again
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Avolicious
But we have control over our random "password" strings 🙂
you have server protection, it is impossible to provide client protection, these are just different things
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RedRay32
you have server protection, it is impossible to provide client protection, these are just different things
Avolicious 2024-09-05 21:50
?
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Jupstar ✪
Yeah I mean it depends on what you can do with that information. But they simply do a logout request, which invalidates all sessions on the account server and then they can log in again
Avolicious 2024-09-05 21:50
Is the logged in user persistent until he leaves a server?
21:50
Or will the logout be immediately?
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Avolicious
?
in the sense that it is not easy to steal your keys, when it is easy to do on the client side
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Avolicious
Is the logged in user persistent until he leaves a server?
Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 21:51
Yes it stays logged in
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RedRay32
in the sense that it is not easy to steal your keys, when it is easy to do on the client side
Avolicious 2024-09-05 21:51
Huh??? I am more confused now
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Avolicious
Huh??? I am more confused now
It is impossible to ensure the protection of such keys on the consumer side, because there are literally any clients for any program that can take your keys
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Avolicious 2024-09-05 21:52
Is there 2FA support planned?
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RedRay32
It is impossible to ensure the protection of such keys on the consumer side, because there are literally any clients for any program that can take your keys
Avolicious 2024-09-05 21:52
Teeworlds protocol is unencrypted 😄
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 21:52
For what? 2FA is already in the email or steam
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Avolicious
Teeworlds protocol is unencrypted 😄
I would say that there is no such protocol that cannot be hacked
21:53
there are simply no people willing to do it, or opportunities
21:53
but again this is just going to extremes
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Avolicious 2024-09-05 21:53
There is encryption
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RedRay32
It is impossible to ensure the protection of such keys on the consumer side, because there are literally any clients for any program that can take your keys
Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 21:54
We thought about storing the keys in the steam inventory 😂
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Avolicious 2024-09-05 21:54
Thats why I was in favor of the public/private key client thingy
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You can come to terrible consequences from any situation, but this does not mean that it must happen
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Jupstar ✪
We thought about storing the keys in the steam inventory 😂
I don't use Steam on a regular basisKannaSuicide
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Avolicious 2024-09-05 21:55
You're right, but before we rely on something self-made, I'd like to know the workflow 🙂
21:55
People will ask us if they lose their key
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Avolicious
There is encryption
it’s enough to create an AI based on this and about tens of years of training pepehappi
21:56
or quantum computer
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RedRay32
or quantum computer
Avolicious 2024-09-05 21:56
Post-quantum cryptography (PQC), sometimes referred to as quantum-proof, quantum-safe, or quantum-resistant, is the development of cryptographic algorithms (usually public-key algorithms) that are currently thought to be secure against a cryptanalytic attack by a quantum computer. Most widely-used public-key algorithms rely on the difficulty of ...
21:57
Anyways, fair enough that people cant do something with just the private key
21:57
Atleast there is any 2nd factor
21:58
Can they just upload their public key to the account?
21:58
To get all prev. ranks they finished before their account gets stolen
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 21:58
I honestly wonder how attractive it is to steal an account anyway.. For moderators: They should report a stolen key anyway. For "normal" players.. What can you do with that? Finish maps for them? lol
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Avolicious 2024-09-05 21:58
It is. Credentials are credentials
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Does anyone have this skin, my friends?
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Avolicious 2024-09-05 21:59
Our random strings are stolen everyday
21:59
because they use bad-clients
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Avolicious
To get all prev. ranks they finished before their account gets stolen
Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 22:00
I don't quite understand it tbh
22:01
Attackers can steal a session of an account
22:01
They cannot overtake the account.
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Avolicious 2024-09-05 22:01
If a key gets stolen & they recover their account. How can they re-link to all previously finished maps?
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Jupstar ✪
Attackers can steal a session of an account
Avolicious 2024-09-05 22:01
They can get their private keys
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Avolicious
They can get their private keys
Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 22:01
The private key is a session on the account server
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Avolicious 2024-09-05 22:01
But how does the user authenticate against the account server?
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Avolicious
But how does the user authenticate against the account server?
Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 22:02
Email or steam
22:02
every time you do that a new key-pair (as session) is created
22:02
the private key stays on the client
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Jupstar ✪
every time you do that a new key-pair (as session) is created
Mh, then its kinda unfair to state that a third-party server not trusting DDNet account system can use the fingerprint of the public certificate. Since they're just ephemeral and the account system doesn't bother to retain them between game data resets, a third-party server can't reliably use them for authentication.
22:06
Unless a way is provided to export/import such ephemeral keys and the user gets responsible for keeping them.
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DynamoFox
Mh, then its kinda unfair to state that a third-party server not trusting DDNet account system can use the fingerprint of the public certificate. Since they're just ephemeral and the account system doesn't bother to retain them between game data resets, a third-party server can't reliably use them for authentication.
Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 22:07
I never claimed that they alone are enough
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And then it wouldn't be helpful anyway because such a key pair probably can't be revoked once lost.
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 22:07
But they can use it similar to a session
22:08
a session token
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a server not trusting DDNet’s account system when they expect most or all of their users will use the DDNet client is quite short-sighted anyway
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Jupstar ✪
The only thing they need is the public key of ddnet's account server to verify the client cert was signed by the ddnet account server. so the account server itself is still a ddnet thing. I guess you could argue if ddnet is evil you could sign fake certs. So if you absolutely don't trust ddnet's account ids, you can still use the public key fingerprint of the client cert, which is validated in the TLS client auth process. This information could be used to create a session for that private key with whatever method you want to use for your accounts.
Last paragraph. (Can I quote text in discord? :s)
22:09
>
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 22:10
This information could be used to create a session for that private key with whatever method you want to use for your accounts.
22:11
In other words. You can use this information to automatically log someone in, after you authed this key-pair in your account system
22:11
How this auth'ing looks like, I purposely left open
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kdo
yo
Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 22:12
Wazzup
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Oh, I see. A client still needs an "out of bounds" way to register the public cert FP to an account on a independent account system of the third-party server. I mean there needs to be a way for a user to tie the public cert FP to an external account.
22:16
And they'll need to re-tie the public cert FP once it has changed.
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 22:18
Yep
22:18
If you use the external accounts
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For instance KoG could add some webpage where an authenticated user could upload their public cert to get it tied to their KoG account. Then the KoG server will automatically recognize the connecting client as connected to a specific account on their account system. (edited)
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-09-05 22:21
If they don't trust DDNet that would be the option to go, yes
👍 1
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Hey, does anyone have experience with skin recolors?
23:04
no matter what program i use, i just can't use my recolored skin
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wdym you cant use your recolored skin? is there some error ingame?
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