DDraceNetwork - general

so are they gonna change the server banner or not..? xD

nah

03:21

winter is coming bro

03:22

no really need to change

Freezy

I don't think the rule has to be adjusted in its wording but you guys have to stop holding onto the way it's phrased so badly. Things that should be valued in addition to the phrasing should be: 1. The purpose of the rule 2. The reason why the rule has come into effect (Adorenarine incident in this case) 3. The "admin's discretion" that was also embedded into the same rule and totally puts the admins in charge as it's basically up to them how to handle each case so the rule itself is just kind of invalidating itself Additionally the handling of the rule in the past is so insanely unclear that it is just kind of a joke. Bit 3 skip is apparently just completely untouchable because of the rule. Meanwhile Hostile 3 was allowed to be fixed if certain criteria was met (agreement of players who finished it the "legit" way while the ones who skipped apparently didn't need to be asked which basically already implies that their way was "illegal" even though the rule doesn't say so). Basically everyone does whatever one wants with the rule right now. At least that's how it seems and it's just kind of funny at this point xDD

Additionally the handling of the rule in the past is so insanely unclear that it is just kind of a joke. Bit 3 skip is apparently just completely untouchable because of the rule. Meanwhile Hostile 3 was allowed to be fixed if certain criteria was met (agreement of players who finished it the "legit" way while the ones who skipped apparently didn't need to be asked which basically already implies that their way was "illegal" even though the rule doesn't say so).

Allow me clear this up then. They were asking you without our knowledge and we didn't agree to fixing Hostile 3. There was no "certain criteria". The admin discretion rule is intended for situations like those with dummy maps, which aren’t allowed to have team ranks. I didn’t provide exact examples in the disclaimer because of the wide range of potential issues, like exploits or the illegal dummy teamranks. The "handling" shouldn't be unclear. We established this rule, and we will notify everyone if any actions are taken under it. Any claims to the contrary are just rumors.

<BµmM>

but this has nothing to do with h3

Not only that, it has nothing to do with testing or mapping either.

VéNa

I know it takes time, and that why i mentionned which rank need check and which rank doesn't also all rank older than the first time they skipped dont need to be verify. And in 6 months they is probably more rank now, anyway i don't mind about dummy map, gl with it i've done my job, ty spur for the help. (edited)

I'd like to give you an example for how long this would take me personally, to give you even a better understanding HOW LONG this actually can take. First, I need to obtain both the original map and your fixed version. Using twmap tools, I’ll compare the two maps to identify differences. This includes manually checking the changes since I'm not aware of what exactly was fixed or how the skip works. Estimated Time: 30 minutes to 1 hour. Next, I’ll fetch the rankings, focusing on at least the top 10 players, and retrieve their associated UUIDs from our database. Estimated Time: 10 to 20 minutes. Afterwards, I need to download the teehistorian files and convert them into demo files for viewing. This step can vary in time depending on whether there are any issues with fetching or converting the files. Estimated Time: 1 to 2 hours. Then, I’ll review the demos. Depending on the server’s uptime, each demo can take between 10 to 20 minutes to check. For 10 ranks, this adds up to approximately 2 hours and 30 minutes. Estimated Time: 2 hours and 30 minutes. Lastly, I need to document all the problematic ranks and proceed to delete them, along with any bad saves. This part is usually the most time-consuming. Estimated Time: Up to 2 hours. Combining all these steps, the total time to thoroughly check one map on a very demanding day can be around 6 hours. This is just for one single map. Please consider how long this entire process takes, knowing that we are all just human, juggling jobs, and having little free time. Can you rest easy with this understanding, especially knowing that none of us, including you, are compensated for this work? (edited)

Depends I need more details. How would you break in? Would I be home when it happens? Why are you asking? Xd

Replying to @🐵Bonzi Buddy🐵 CHILLERDRAGON what would you do if i broke into your house

This is just one part of what it means to be an admin. We're frequently criticized for working too slowly or for not meeting demands without thorough discussion. This is, by far, the most disheartening aspect of being an admin for DDNet.

@murpi: that sounds like a painful process. How good is the twmap tooling you use for diffing? What exactly do you use I am also interested in seeing differences in map changes.

chillerdragon

@murpi: that sounds like a painful process. How good is the twmap tooling you use for diffing? What exactly do you use I am also interested in seeing differences in map changes.

You unpack both maps and then simply use a diff tool (i.e that comes with linux) and compare both unpacked directories. It should give you a list of blocks that were changed

05:39

(I'd need to check my cheatsheet for the exact commands, I don't have them around atm)

Unpack as in to json?

05:39

The mapdir format?

05:40

I use a similar process actually. But I use a crappy shell script to do the diffing. It shows me in a overview where in the map which layer was changed as ascii art preview.

chillerdragon

The mapdir format?

From patiga:

what I did was
twmap_edit dm1.map dm1 --mapdir
twmap_edit dm1_changed.map dm1_changed --mapdir
and then did diff -r dm1 dm1_changed

Ok sad that’s nothing new for me :(

05:41

BTW I have a script that can generate patch scripts that represent the difference between two maps if you need that @murpi

chillerdragon

BTW I have a script that can generate patch scripts that represent the difference between two maps if you need that @murpi

No idea what that means, but sure

Let’s say you have map A.map and map A_edited_added_new_part.map if you yeet both maps into my script it generates a python script that can be applied to map A.map and it will place the tiles to create the new part. (edited)

05:43

Almost like a git patch that can be applied to any version of the map

chillerdragon

Let’s say you have map A.map and map A_edited_added_new_part.map if you yeet both maps into my script it generates a python script that can be applied to map A.map and it will place the tiles to create the new part. (edited)

That wouldn't really assist with the specific process I mentioned earlier, would it?

05:44

But sounds interesting

Not necessarily but it also creates a diff that can be viewed. And more interestingly can be applied.

05:49

but the diff preview might help you see for example here https://github.com/DDNetPP/maps/actions/runs/9660167359/job/26645119450

Update to BlmapChill v0187 (no bonus tile in useless cp) (#139) · D...

Official ddnet++ maps. Contribute to DDNetPP/maps development by creating an account on GitHub.

05:49

05:50

This might actually add time.

I need to actually see the parts as well to understand how a specific skip is done.

05:52

But that's hella cool anyway

05:54

Actually, this might help find unintentional fixes (edited)

murpi

I'd like to give you an example for how long this would take me personally, to give you even a better understanding HOW LONG this actually can take. First, I need to obtain both the original map and your fixed version. Using twmap tools, I’ll compare the two maps to identify differences. This includes manually checking the changes since I'm not aware of what exactly was fixed or how the skip works. Estimated Time: 30 minutes to 1 hour. Next, I’ll fetch the rankings, focusing on at least the top 10 players, and retrieve their associated UUIDs from our database. Estimated Time: 10 to 20 minutes. Afterwards, I need to download the teehistorian files and convert them into demo files for viewing. This step can vary in time depending on whether there are any issues with fetching or converting the files. Estimated Time: 1 to 2 hours. Then, I’ll review the demos. Depending on the server’s uptime, each demo can take between 10 to 20 minutes to check. For 10 ranks, this adds up to approximately 2 hours and 30 minutes. Estimated Time: 2 hours and 30 minutes. Lastly, I need to document all the problematic ranks and proceed to delete them, along with any bad saves. This part is usually the most time-consuming. Estimated Time: Up to 2 hours. Combining all these steps, the total time to thoroughly check one map on a very demanding day can be around 6 hours. This is just for one single map. Please consider how long this entire process takes, knowing that we are all just human, juggling jobs, and having little free time. Can you rest easy with this understanding, especially knowing that none of us, including you, are compensated for this work? (edited)

More ppl need to see messages like this cuz for some reason everyone thinks their idea has no potential flaws or isnt time consuming and proceed to dunk on the state of the game xD

This might sound dumb, but can't you just ask the mapper how the skip is done / changes made when you lack the context? You are supposedly on the same team, a bit of trust wouldn't hurt. Idk if it would make the process shorter but at least it would feel less like a bother?

Devinci

This might sound dumb, but can't you just ask the mapper how the skip is done / changes made when you lack the context? You are supposedly on the same team, a bit of trust wouldn't hurt. Idk if it would make the process shorter but at least it would feel less like a bother?

Not dumb. My only issue is that bringing more people into this type of task can be a hassle. I find it quicker to use twmap tools since there's no waiting around for a mapper's response. The map fixes were done by VeNa (and spur), so I don't check for any errors either, given VeNa is a Tester and is trustworthy.

Gazebr

More ppl need to see messages like this cuz for some reason everyone thinks their idea has no potential flaws or isnt time consuming and proceed to dunk on the state of the game xD

I usually don't like complaining publicly because victimizing myself or other admins doesn't solve the problem and can create unnecessary drama. This is just to illustrate how exhausting some aspects of our work can be and why we set certain rules to make things more manageable for everyone.

07:35

However, if you DM me and bring up anything about being an admin, I’ll vent as much as I can.

1

@Fussel

?

Fussel

?

Can you come and take care of it at 69 ger10?

^^

Fussel

^^

thxx!

^^

wow, someone is using 2 accounts to spawnblock me

09:47

am i really THAT hated

adds a third pvp bot

usually its only been one bot but damn

pipa

guys

10:48

i need help

Can u get cactus network

11:03

On steam like

11:03

Ddnet

replace ddnet folder with cactus and never update from steam

zhn

replace ddnet folder with cactus and never update from steam

How I do that

murpi

This is just one part of what it means to be an admin. We're frequently criticized for working too slowly or for not meeting demands without thorough discussion. This is, by far, the most disheartening aspect of being an admin for DDNet.

Sadly this happens in every project, where someone is responsible. As a player its easy to complain about something, because it doesnt fit.

Avolicious

Sadly this happens in every project, where someone is responsible. As a player its easy to complain about something, because it doesnt fit.

hi avo

1

Avolicious

Sadly this happens in every project, where someone is responsible. As a player its easy to complain about something, because it doesnt fit.

complains about false VPN positives

Fussel

complains about false VPN positives

I am not talking about false VPN positives

^^

IP Intel is challenging. But I talk about hosting something in general, either a teeworlds server or just a simple forum. For someone who is not responsible nor accountable, its easy to change something within a day.

chillerdragon

Let’s say you have map A.map and map A_edited_added_new_part.map if you yeet both maps into my script it generates a python script that can be applied to map A.map and it will place the tiles to create the new part. (edited)

that sounds really good for versioning maps and reverting things if one f'ed up

Avolicious

IP Intel is challenging. But I talk about hosting something in general, either a teeworlds server or just a simple forum. For someone who is not responsible nor accountable, its easy to change something within a day.

IP intel is challenging

I guess I know this :D

Idk if you know. How should I? xD

where ukr servers?

водонос

where ukr servers?

in ukraine

if you received some unlisted VPN's in the recent past, it's not unlikely that the information came from me

ok maybe in shadow realm justatest

водонос

where ukr servers?

Hoster is switching them back to dedicated server, I hope the new server will be provided to me soon

11:42

Play on POL/GER in the meantime

Fussel

if you received some unlisted VPN's in the recent past, it's not unlikely that the information came from me

But the internet is changing every day

Its very likely that sometimes our passive dataset is not up2date due to scheduling ^^

11:42

I try to avoid too much manual interaction, because this would be another full-time job

deen

Hoster is switching them back to dedicated server, I hope the new server will be provided to me soon

Avolicious

I try to avoid too much manual interaction, because this would be another full-time job

Kinda mandatory for vpn detection sadly, even the smartest most proactively scanning automatic solutions miss some because ips change use all the time

Learath2

Kinda mandatory for vpn detection sadly, even the smartest most proactively scanning automatic solutions miss some because ips change use all the time

Thats true, but you need more people & more intel to get more insights.

12:40

Just scanning the IPv4 space is not enough

12:41

I dont wanna expose all my methods I use to detect, but honestly if you google for it you'll find all of them for sure

12:41

Its just about data correlation and accurate/cleaned data

Even the paid solutions have false negatives, there is always some amount of manual intervention needed. I wish it would be a requirement to publish the use of an ip through some manner that's easy to query

12:43

With fines for false reporting ofc

Well, for domains we already do this

Whois is deprecated, now its RDAP

12:44

But not exactly for the purpose of the website, but machine readable information

12:44

So in case somethings wrong, you can easily send emails or whatever to the person

Now we just need the same for ips, build it on top of dns like with PTR records

Learath2

Now we just need the same for ips, build it on top of dns like with PTR records

Mhmmm, I would prefer TXT records, but tbh I would not do it via DNS

Well whatever, it's just an idea. Put it somewhere, have legal consequences to misreporting

It would be nice if its an extension of the BGP protocol, so upstreams can decide if they want to route this type of traffic through their infra

13:00

But with IPv6 this will be much more pain

melon i wnna upload a video where i do that

👣♦ 𝕄ùร𝓼𝓐_ү𝓣 ✎✊

melon i wnna upload a video where i do that

u dont

Learath2

There were 3 broad requests:

Change of testing/mapping rules.
Adding of new roles and tester levels.
Adding of two new categories, for two new maps, one each. The first one we didn't even argue about, it was just published as written.

Second one I questioned why this sort of role hierarchy was needed with this little amount of testers. I got adequate-ish explanations, this was going to be added with just one role slightly renamed. Third one was the contentious one, of the 6 admins. 1 was willing to give it a try, 2 did not see the reason to add two whole categories for two maps, 1 did not give an opinion, 1 thought this sort of solo gameplay is not in the nature of ddnet, 1 I don't remember right now. I'm not going to say who said what, that's their own prerogative to reveal. So I asked if you had any maps that would be moved to this category. I got 1 person replying that you had 6 maps in testing that could fit + the short catalog that could be recategorized. These two categories are speedrunning categories, the reason they got a lot of traction among the testers was that you are all very good players that want a challenge. I got no other/further information about why these categories were a good idea, I was not referred to the discussion you guys had. I went back and reported my findings to the others, none were swayed by a handful of short maps being recategorized into a category that was no different . So exactly why would we make a change that none of us really think is a good idea, given no reason other than: "We'll put some maps that already fit other categories but are short in there".

not sure if this discussion is still going on but i can give a lot of good reasons for why i think the 3rd point is an idea worth exploring / implementing

I'm planning on adding a forum to discord this weekend, need to discuss it a little first, but I think that'd be the appropriate place to have this sort of discussion

The category being completely misunderstood is entirely the testers doing. As per your second point you don't really care much what we think, so none of you thought you even had to explain anything.

imo, this is not really valid. it seemed to me that the admins involved in the discussion went off recent messages in the tester channel to form their opinions and quickly misunderstood the concept we were trying to put forth. i wouldn't say it's entirely the testers' doing, but rather a failure of the communication system the tester system used to have (essentially what we were trying to communicate did not come across clearly, fault of both testers/testing leads + admins) edit: it is true that testers themselves did not have an agreed-upon view on how they wanted the new category to work, but i feel like that was given since it was just a concept/prototype (edited)

14:04

ah okay then i'd be happy to discuss there, no use yapping here ig

what happend to the report room

Hizuna

what happend to the report room

See #✉-create-a-ticket

oh ok thx

why do ukr servers not working?

зеркало

why do ukr servers not working?

https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/342454474117218334/1255488206837776486

ScReeNy

https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/342454474117218334/1255488206837776486

oh thanks

@Draggory im a fan

Dead chat

u

meloƞ

u

damn

15:13

ok

muhaahhah

how to build a client via VS + CMake

meloƞ

ok

Bro can you deal with reports?

no

rah

bigY

how to build a client via VS + CMake

DDNet client? - please refer to my own handcrafted tutorial on the githubs readme! https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet.git

GitHub - ddnet/ddnet: DDraceNetwork, a free cooperative platformer ...

DDraceNetwork, a free cooperative platformer game. Contribute to ddnet/ddnet development by creating an account on GitHub.

meloƞ

DDNet client? - please refer to my own handcrafted tutorial on the githubs readme! https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet.git

Building on Windows with the Visual Studio IDE

15:19

this?

exactly!

yes no? Sorry im russian

hewoo its me the aincient monke

meloƞ

exactly!

yes no? Sorry im russian

yes

ok

15:21

hello

🐵Bonzi Buddy🐵

Click to see attachment 🖼️

the hell

do you have a problem with purple monkeys?

hui

how to do i change the background off all maps?

hi

16:10

what should I do to open a project?

@Tater ^

give me the german launguage txt i wnna write in urdu

https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/blob/f21976b0ede9f7723b04b50302217377cdf9267e/data/languages/german.txt

ddnet/data/languages/german.txt at f21976b0ede9f7723b04b50302217377...

DDraceNetwork, a free cooperative platformer game. Contribute to ddnet/ddnet development by creating an account on GitHub.

bigY

what should I do to open a project?

Search for SSP in #developer (https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/293493549758939136/1215406680876130385)

didn't notice i'm playing so much ddnet

-StormAx

didn't notice i'm playing so much ddnet

i noticed when i wanted to reply to you with the same screenshot but then remembered that my ddnet isnt on steam so i literally didnt use steam at all justatest

2

-StormAx

didn't notice i'm playing so much ddnet

mine is freakishly similar justatest

chillerdragon

BTW I have a script that can generate patch scripts that represent the difference between two maps if you need that @murpi

if u do that can u sahre with me too?

909 sessions (edited)

where to enter it git submodule update --recursive --init

17:26

HOW TO BILD SOURS CODE VIA VS CODE???

deen

Hoster is switching them back to dedicated server, I hope the new server will be provided to me soon

the servers now is complete shit

boohoo

UKR servers are quite laggy today

(edited)

ikr