DDraceNetwork - general

DDraceNetwork

DDraceNetwork / general

This channel is for all Teeworlds/DDNet and related chat. Gameplay questions can be asked here as well rather than in #questions. Ingame screenshots and any other Teeworlds related media goes to #showroom.

Between 2024-06-24 00:00:00Z and 2024-06-25 00:00:00Z

simple hitbox skin bc bored (have somebugs) (edited)

Image attachment

04:42

yellow - hook from other tees red - entities like hookable and unhookable (that you can't walk through) blue - entities like freeze (that you can walk through)

@Headshot check messages

xewoiy

simple hitbox skin bc bored (have somebugs) (edited)

Thats 100% like that?

05:21

Hmmm interesting

xewoiy

simple hitbox skin bc bored (have somebugs) (edited)

nice skin

yeah, i like it

hi guys

07:32

can anyone tell me how u change a tee's skin

07:32

i cant do it

07:32

like

07:32

i wanna download

07:32

tee skin

07:32

then use it

cher

tee skin

What's the name of the skin?

https://ddnet.org/skins/ Here are all the skins you can use.

*all skins that are supported by our own database. You can obviously use other skins not in our database as well.

murpi

*all skins that are supported by our own database. You can obviously use other skins not in our database as well.

You should make a bot entry

IS THAT WR FOR HIGHEST SPEED

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_Sznugler_

IS THAT WR FOR HIGHEST SPEED

#records

O I GOT 3600

09:59

NOW

10:04

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guys, tell the command to see the skins of people in the frieze

tesoni

guys, tell the command to see the skins of people in the frieze

cl_show_ninja 0

thx ❤️

THIS IS DEFENITLY WR

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try going as fast as possible in horizontal and u might find some funny behavior.

_Sznugler_

THIS IS DEFENITLY WR

nope its not

10:30

do u really think ur the first one discovering this?

_Sznugler_

O I GOT 3600

using the shotgun bug it's as easy as shelling pears

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_Sznugler_

THIS IS DEFENITLY WR

There are 2 bugs in-game that cause insane y-achsis acceleration. 1 involves sg and the other a specific speed booster set up. You also have 2 solo maps then have an almost infinite fall setup after the finish. "Acq" and "slack" are the maps if you want to see them in action. (edited)

12:17

The speed booster set up is used at the final part of https://ddnet.org/maps/Broken-32-brain .

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mass skill issue

᲼Ka3dr᲼

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Report it here if you want help #✉-create-a-ticket

@Huuurb 감사합니다 ㅎㅎ

Polector

The speed booster set up is used at the final part of https://ddnet.org/maps/Broken-32-brain .

Cosyris also has a secret area using this

after 20 mins of trying...

Image attachment

https://youtu.be/HbJmFbFx4bY?si=9L6e3PubnsTGI4zV

анонимчик

аллварю на мультимапе! Свято

14:54

bad

_Sznugler_

THIS IS DEFENITLY WR

mało

потный лавандышъ

https://youtu.be/HbJmFbFx4bY?si=9L6e3PubnsTGI4zV

so you're self-reporting to being a blocker?

Iza

so you're self-reporting to being a blocker?

I usually don't block/fun pvp, allvar for video

потный лавандышъ

https://youtu.be/HbJmFbFx4bY?si=9L6e3PubnsTGI4zV

what even is this

My video bro

but what are you trying to show

Allwar block

against people that dont know how to play the game ?

at the beginning of the video it was shown that the playground is empty

then just go on royal or copy love

15:42

much more impressive to win over there

no problem, I'll shoot the next video in CLB

I've noticed Kobra is really godawful for beginners, we really should think of some way to funnel players to an easier map

17:31

at the first part people just clutter because there is no place to not be in the way, then no one can do the part

hi! How can i apply for DDNet Mod?

Sky

hi! How can i apply for DDNet Mod?

We are about to open applications soon. Just watch out for the announcement

Okay okay! Thanks!

Learath2

We are about to open applications soon. Just watch out for the announcement

can it be based on activity too laso

17:45

i dont want mods that get on the game every full moon

17:45

and never else

Learath2

I've noticed Kobra is really godawful for beginners, we really should think of some way to funnel players to an easier map

there could be a new difficulty like beginner, tutorial maps or something

Learath2

I've noticed Kobra is really godawful for beginners, we really should think of some way to funnel players to an easier map

many old novice maps and some new ones are not really good for new players imo, so i'm not sure where new players should be funneled to

user31456173

there could be a new difficulty like beginner, tutorial maps or something

which'd include maps that teach mechanics in a beginner friendly way, along with some team 0 maps

Learath2

at the first part people just clutter because there is no place to not be in the way, then no one can do the part

When .me' and I wanted to test Kobra for the tournament we joined the test server with the in-progress map version Zerodin made, and it turned out he mapped the entire design without any game tiles. So our test was looking at the parts

When was the first version of Kobra released?

Balami

many old novice maps and some new ones are not really good for new players imo, so i'm not sure where new players should be funneled to

old ones are horrible, pick literally any new map and itll be better

user31456173

can it be based on activity too laso

Eh, we'll just need more mods, you can't really expect volunteers to put in consistent time

Learath2

Eh, we'll just need more mods, you can't really expect volunteers to put in consistent time

but i still think having mods' recent activity on ddnet checked before accepting them would be good

what's most important is that they are trustworthy people, these people get a fair amount of power and autonomy, we don't want anyone abusing that, after that probably activity is second most important

18:22

but it's kinda getting hard as we don't consistently get new players but we get them in bursts, so there are some times when there just aren't any active enough people that have been around long enough to have the trust of the community

The situation is way worse in the mapping section

There are almost no active testers currently... The last released map was at 06/01/2024 (24 days ago lol) I hope it will get better in future but atm its a bit sad

Yeah if only we could find testers the same way we find mods

yeah understandable (edited)

I don't really know what to do with testing, it always just goes out of control with an insane amount of drama

some testers want to be annoying, it has always been like that, throwback when someone declined Grandpa

Maybe the "2 approvals" rule wasn't that good after all. It can be beneficial for code review if you have a lot of potential reviewers, but for this small team, it doesn't work well (just my opinion). Of course, the main problem is that the number of testers is really low. Perhaps it makes sense to lower the requirements to become a tester. There isn't even a page on "how to become a tester." now...

There isn't even a page on "how to become a tester." now...

if i recall correctly there were multiple pages of text with literally everything you could possibly need to make a good map, dont know why they reduced it to only 2 website pages that have the bare minimum

Perhaps it's time to just start releasing maps by community vote. It might become a huge hit in quality but atleast we'd get maps

Learath2

but it's kinda getting hard as we don't consistently get new players but we get them in bursts, so there are some times when there just aren't any active enough people that have been around long enough to have the trust of the community

but it doesnt really matter when these mods are inactive tho

18:34

there has to be trustworthy active mods

user31456173

there has to be trustworthy active mods

well we'll see who we get when the applications open

Learath2

Perhaps it's time to just start releasing maps by community vote. It might become a huge hit in quality but atleast we'd get maps

100% agree on that

Learath2

Perhaps it's time to just start releasing maps by community vote. It might become a huge hit in quality but atleast we'd get maps

i think a point limit would be nice

18:35

like top 500

Learath2

Perhaps it's time to just start releasing maps by community vote. It might become a huge hit in quality but atleast we'd get maps

less starkiller maps

18:35

lul

xd

you definitely don't want top 500 players releasing maps

kek

They are all insane enjoyers, we'd only get 8* insane maps

Learath2

you definitely don't want top 500 players releasing maps

trolls?

18:36

yea but i meant it as in quality

18:36

i think top 500 players would better distinguish bad maps from good maps

deen

When .me' and I wanted to test Kobra for the tournament we joined the test server with the in-progress map version Zerodin made, and it turned out he mapped the entire design without any game tiles. So our test was looking at the parts

mapped design first and then the gameplay??

They would only come in to vote yes on insane maps, then leave

i dont know then

how do you become a tester?

Balami

how do you become a tester?

You just test maps, and if you are active enough in testing you'll become a trial tester, and if you are active enough in testing, you'll become a tester

yeah but there is no process? i mean do i have to ask someone? if so who do i ask?

No need to ask anyone anything, you can just pick a map, test it, give feedback

@0x314 ban my fake

18:38

xd

Learath2

They are all insane enjoyers, we'd only get 8* insane maps

not all... i know people with very high points that can abrely play brutal xD

18:38

ddmax mod and novice grinders

Learath2

No need to ask anyone anything, you can just pick a map, test it, give feedback

if i wanted to become a tester now i had to ask someone, since i already tested alot of maps

since there is no test lead role, murpi organizes the whole process now as far as I understand

how would anybody know that

Maybe a process would help I guess. The idea was that testers would self-regulate that

yeah thats why I said "there is no how to become a tester" page

The idea was that testers would see you are active and one of them would approach you to ask you if you want to be a trial tester

18:40

Though it seems it's not working too well

18:40

I miss having jao

i heard that testers are annoyed that an admin does all the decisions about testing, without participating in testing

This is as free as testing gets, if they still don't like it testers as an idea just needs to be scrapped as it's just a position that seems to poison minds

18:42

They are literally free to self regulate, they pick trial testers, they pick testers, they decide testing rules

just become friends with one of the testers, favouritism is deeply rooted within the testing scene for the past years

murpi changed the mapping rules afaik

Ryu

just become friends with one of the testers, favouritism is deeply rooted within the testing scene for the past years

This has been the issue for a decade, one no one could really solve except jao with his iron fist

bring back jao

what did jao solve?

I love jao

Balami

murpi changed the mapping rules afaik

If you look at the mapping rules, the credits clearly states who they were written by mostly

Learath2

If you look at the mapping rules, the credits clearly states who they were written by mostly

someone told me murpi cut them down and i guess pipou didnt agree to that

this someone seems awfully biased

might be true idk

ive heard from multiple people now that the testers are refusing to accept maps to "send a message"

testing definitely needs scrapping, these secret conversations people have behind the scenes spreading dissent just makes me nauseaus

i'm sorry to spread stuff that might be false then

It doesn't matter whether it's true that murpi cut the rules or not, the rules are up to the testers, they can just amend them

when i saw the testing section i was so confused about rules and guidelines (2 different links), because some stuff in the guidelines are rather rules and the other way round, they are not written clearly at all, alot of stuff is missing. also if you click on rules, it links you to a forum post about bugs, which are not allowed (while actually alot of maps use those mechanics) it's not very clean in any way

Learath2

It doesn't matter whether it's true that murpi cut the rules or not, the rules are up to the testers, they can just amend them

maybe that tester didnt understand that they could change the mapping rules? i guess there is also a communication problem (not blaming anyone)

Perhaps, I don't really see how to fix testing, I've been here a decade and we've tried like every form of governance imaginable. It all has issues

Learath2

Perhaps it's time to just start releasing maps by community vote. It might become a huge hit in quality but atleast we'd get maps

and then a map gets declined because people dont understand how to use it

We had a single testing leader, we had 3 leaders, we had 2 leaders, we had independent testers, we had testing teams

subjective things are always hard

I wonder how well chatgpt-4o would do with this task

Learath2

Perhaps, I don't really see how to fix testing, I've been here a decade and we've tried like every form of governance imaginable. It all has issues

i think it's hard to see from the outside, why stuff causes drama?

oh yeah

Balami

i think it's hard to see from the outside, why stuff causes drama?

It's always very obvious why the drama happens. I just don't know what sort of system would minimize the drama

18:57

Or maybe just release everything, see what sticks

Learath2

It's always very obvious why the drama happens. I just don't know what sort of system would minimize the drama

explain the planet 9 drama to me (you say its obvious)

add accounts and trusted ppl can like or dislike trial maps. and if they are succesful they get upgraded to real maps that count points, all trial finishes are counted too

18:58

if a map gets changed, finishes are removed xd

Learath2

Perhaps it's time to just start releasing maps by community vote. It might become a huge hit in quality but atleast we'd get maps

Would prefer that honestly

Learath2

I wonder how well chatgpt-4o would do with this task

we could try it out

Balami

explain the planet 9 drama to me (you say its obvious)

I don't mean drama about individual maps. I mean the general scope of it. Why the testing in general breaks down is usually obvious. Testing teams broke down when teams just started releasing their own maps. Multiple leaders broke down when one only worked on his own maps, one wanted to release everything. This one is breaking down because we just don't have enough engaged people to sustain a system like this.

Learath2

I don't mean drama about individual maps. I mean the general scope of it. Why the testing in general breaks down is usually obvious. Testing teams broke down when teams just started releasing their own maps. Multiple leaders broke down when one only worked on his own maps, one wanted to release everything. This one is breaking down because we just don't have enough engaged people to sustain a system like this.

lack of leadership problem no?

go unpaid slaves, do your job

Learath2

I don't mean drama about individual maps. I mean the general scope of it. Why the testing in general breaks down is usually obvious. Testing teams broke down when teams just started releasing their own maps. Multiple leaders broke down when one only worked on his own maps, one wanted to release everything. This one is breaking down because we just don't have enough engaged people to sustain a system like this.

I don't want to offend you here, but it seems like you don't know whats going on in testing. As i mentioned, the lack of communication is one problem in my opinion.

Learath2

It's always very obvious why the drama happens. I just don't know what sort of system would minimize the drama

i think its because nobody kicks unactive testers

Brokecdx-

lack of leadership problem no?

I think so, it seems a dictatorship is the only way to run testing. Those were the most successful times

and they continue to fill the role

19:03

when they dont do anything

Learath2

I think so, it seems a dictatorship is the only way to run testing. Those were the most successful times

You have no idea how testing dictators annoyed alot of mappers who then stopped mapping or didnt even think about participating in testing

Balami

I don't want to offend you here, but it seems like you don't know whats going on in testing. As i mentioned, the lack of communication is one problem in my opinion.

Well, you fix it then since you seem to know what's going on

MoonTea

i think its because nobody kicks unactive testers

i guess it's normal ppl loose interest, it would require so many testers that whenever someone goes inactive, another tester comes back from his inactivity

Balami

I don't want to offend you here, but it seems like you don't know whats going on in testing. As i mentioned, the lack of communication is one problem in my opinion.

"lack of communication" -didnt even know when my own map was gonna release

Learath2

Well, you fix it then since you seem to know what's going on

I am sorry this conversation is intense. I want to point out lack of communication, which seems to be the problem to me. We can talk about solutions, i don't say that i know THE solution.

Cammodude

"lack of communication" -didnt even know when my own map was gonna release

thats hardly an important info (but you are kinda right)

also all testers should have golden glowing names in scoreboard to make clear these ppl are smth better

Who is current testing lead?

Brokecdx-

Who is current testing lead?

no one

great LOL

Jupstar ✪

also all testers should have golden glowing names in scoreboard to make clear these ppl are smth better

what would that achive exactly?

I.K.U

what would that achive exactly?

some kind of reward for the unpaid unloved undesired hated work they do

Jupstar ✪

some kind of reward for the unpaid unloved undesired hated work they do

ah i see

19:07

maybe a community contributor badge or something xd

I.K.U

thats hardly an important info (but you are kinda right)

well its important to be there when more than half dont know how to play :>)

Jupstar ✪

i guess it's normal ppl loose interest, it would require so many testers that whenever someone goes inactive, another tester comes back from his inactivity

its normal no problem but they took a responsibility when become official testers (edited)

MoonTea

its normal no problem but they took a responsibility when become official testers (edited)

easier said than done tho

So ddnet needs a testing lead again?

Balami

I am sorry this conversation is intense. I want to point out lack of communication, which seems to be the problem to me. We can talk about solutions, i don't say that i know THE solution.

Lack of communication with whom. If you are saying with us, we don't touch testing: There are categories, there are maps, testing is the job of getting good quality maps placed into the correct category. How it's done is something we try to touch as minimally as possible

Jupstar ✪

easier said than done tho

no

19:08

theres should be a system which kicks unactive testers

Brokecdx-

great LOL

It is intended, we wanted to try something new, closer to what we had working well for development for a decade now

MoonTea

theres should be a system which kicks unactive testers

and who follows?

Learath2

It is intended, we wanted to try something new, closer to what we had working well for development for a decade now

which is?

some random ppl that just started the game?

why?

MoonTea

theres should be a system which kicks unactive testers

There is just not enough of them, with mods it might work since there are almost always qualified and interested people

there's many people (edited)

kicking inactive testers doesnt solve anything xd

Brokecdx-

which is?

Testers are all equal
Everyone can test
Testers decide who the new testers will be

I.K.U

kicking inactive testers doesnt solve anything xd

it can provide the influx and replacement of testers

MoonTea

there's many people (edited)

There are many players, but not many are interested in the thankless job of testing and even fewer are qualified, testing is subjective and takes a lot of experience to do right (edited)

Learath2

Lack of communication with whom. If you are saying with us, we don't touch testing: There are categories, there are maps, testing is the job of getting good quality maps placed into the correct category. How it's done is something we try to touch as minimally as possible

it looks like murpi is doing the decisions, testers cant hire more testers, because they would have to ask murpi. i heard that murpi also did some of the decisions on testing (e.g. the no fix 2 weeks after release rule) nor he uploads the fixes of the dummy maps (teamranks) testers sent to him educate me if im wrong

MoonTea

it can provide the influx and replacement of testers

you can get new testers without removing the old ones

One could try adding a whole seperate testing team in china community

I.K.U

you can get new testers without removing the old ones

but u can become trial testers not testers who can set ready to map (edited)

19:15

and theres too many testers who cant even that isnt they

ScReeNy

One could try adding a whole seperate testing team in china community

outsourcing to china, classic

@Learath2 do you consider rerating unfairly rated maps?

ScReeNy

One could try adding a whole seperate testing team in china community

would probably work tho

Learath2

There are many players, but not many are interested in the thankless job of testing and even fewer are qualified, testing is subjective and takes a lot of experience to do right (edited)

but theres a many thankless job and that? people just take a responsibility for their action (edited)

You should give Pipou and the french team open hands to run testing thing, it looked hella good imo and something new. can always try it out and if it doesn't workout then that's that (edited)

1

Balami

it looks like murpi is doing the decisions, testers cant hire more testers, because they would have to ask murpi. i heard that murpi also did some of the decisions on testing (e.g. the no fix 2 weeks after release rule) nor he uploads the fixes of the dummy maps (teamranks) testers sent to him educate me if im wrong

I've been pretty busy for the last 2 months or so (I don't believe I've missed something as huge as murpi becoming the shadow tester lead), but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and investigate these claims. We don't believe the "no fix 2 weeks after release" is a testing decision. It's a necessary decision to ensure competitive integrity. It's a huge problem if maps change, all ranks need to be deleted if it's anything altering physics

man all i wanna do is release maps that push ddnet to its limits, why does testing have to be so complicated

paradise

You should give Pipou and the french team open hands to run testing thing, it looked hella good imo and something new. can always try it out and if it doesn't workout then that's that (edited)

message sponsored by vena

and continue to do because they are interested in work

paradise

You should give Pipou and the french team open hands to run testing thing, it looked hella good imo and something new. can always try it out and if it doesn't workout then that's that (edited)

the hostile 3 incident excluded

justatest

3

paradise

You should give Pipou and the french team open hands to run testing thing, it looked hella good imo and something new. can always try it out and if it doesn't workout then that's that (edited)

Pipou had the exact same position jao had, all he had to do was to communicate and we were completely okay with him running testing forever. I actually still to this day do not understand why it had to blow up

feelsbadman

2

Learath2

I've been pretty busy for the last 2 months or so (I don't believe I've missed something as huge as murpi becoming the shadow tester lead), but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and investigate these claims. We don't believe the "no fix 2 weeks after release" is a testing decision. It's a necessary decision to ensure competitive integrity. It's a huge problem if maps change, all ranks need to be deleted if it's anything altering physics

ye but some maps have huge issues (back in time 3) and it couldnt be fixed cuz of rule

Learath2

I've been pretty busy for the last 2 months or so (I don't believe I've missed something as huge as murpi becoming the shadow tester lead), but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and investigate these claims. We don't believe the "no fix 2 weeks after release" is a testing decision. It's a necessary decision to ensure competitive integrity. It's a huge problem if maps change, all ranks need to be deleted if it's anything altering physics

Thank you for your answer, i mean you can debate on the latter, because fixing 2p finishes usually shouldnt affect speedruns, it doesn't explain, why nothing got fixed imo

Learath2

I've been pretty busy for the last 2 months or so (I don't believe I've missed something as huge as murpi becoming the shadow tester lead), but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and investigate these claims. We don't believe the "no fix 2 weeks after release" is a testing decision. It's a necessary decision to ensure competitive integrity. It's a huge problem if maps change, all ranks need to be deleted if it's anything altering physics

fixing bit3 skip would've kept it pretty competitive tho

Learath2

Pipou had the exact same position jao had, all he had to do was to communicate and we were completely okay with him running testing forever. I actually still to this day do not understand why it had to blow up

what I heard frenchies was just waiting for confirmation from admins if they can

19:18

they had whole plan I think

I.K.U

ye but some maps have huge issues (back in time 3) and it couldnt be fixed cuz of rule

Yeah but can you put it into a rule? I really hate the bit3 skip aswell but I don't know what the rule is then. Would you be okay with a vibes based decision?

19:19

I don't like the vibes of the bit3 skip, that's the best I can do for you

Learath2

Yeah but can you put it into a rule? I really hate the bit3 skip aswell but I don't know what the rule is then. Would you be okay with a vibes based decision?

Maybe community votes can justify vibe based stuff

(edited)

Learath2

Yeah but can you put it into a rule? I really hate the bit3 skip aswell but I don't know what the rule is then. Would you be okay with a vibes based decision?

tbh all out of bounds skips should be fixed imo (except oldschool ones)

2

in testing there are alot of vibe based decisions, i dont think there is something wrong about them in general

Learath2

Yeah but can you put it into a rule? I really hate the bit3 skip aswell but I don't know what the rule is then. Would you be okay with a vibes based decision?

using brain neural network for decision > using gay 20 minute rule heuristic

Vibe based decisions before a maps release is fine. Vibe based decisions after can imply all ranks being deleted because it's not really possible to calculate what ranks are being made impossible by a given change

if anyone can replicate a skip on @Cipy29 's client within 1hour the skip deserves to stay

pepeW

2

I think we need discord forums/thread (how is it even called). So anyone can create a thread to discuss some topic, so general/other channel wouldn't be a mess and we could see how important is fixing that issue

2

3

Sometimes it's obvious, like a missing freeze tile allowing you to get out of bounds. We have tooling to detect runs that use the exploit so when fixed we can just delete those

1

Learath2

Vibe based decisions before a maps release is fine. Vibe based decisions after can imply all ranks being deleted because it's not really possible to calculate what ranks are being made impossible by a given change

yeah i get that point, it's hard to make a decision in some cases, but e.g. there is a 80% community vote to do something (even if it means cheated undeleted ranks for a few lucky individuals) then you can make that decision imo

3

Ryu

if anyone can replicate a skip on @Cipy29 's client within 1hour the skip deserves to stay

cipy29 client jokes are outdated mf

0x314

I think we need discord forums/thread (how is it even called). So anyone can create a thread to discuss some topic, so general/other channel wouldn't be a mess and we could see how important is fixing that issue

Something like wikipedia village pump where people can discuss this sort of stuff would be nice now that the forum is pretty much dead

feelsbadman

1

Learath2

Something like wikipedia village pump where people can discuss this sort of stuff would be nice now that the forum is pretty much dead

I mean the discord feature (edited)

Yes

1

ddnet forum is dead indeed

what happened to lfg discussion channel

19:25

it was so cool

paradise

what I heard frenchies was just waiting for confirmation from admins if they can

The last testing team just decided something we thought wasn't in their scope of decisions. Then they refused to even explain the decision to us. Then just ghosted us for more than a month.

greenthing

3

lmao

Believe me I want nothing more than to have a testing leader, those setups always worked better. You just need to be a team player though, you lead testing it doesn't make you supreme leader of ddnet, we decide things together

Learath2

The last testing team just decided something we thought wasn't in their scope of decisions. Then they refused to even explain the decision to us. Then just ghosted us for more than a month.

what was the decision about?

Balami

what was the decision about?

It wasn't even the entire decision, they wanted to create some new categories of maps, which we thought wasn't really needed or distinct enough from the current categories. I was even willing to give it a go just to see if we'd get some traction on them, but no one even wanted to discuss whether ddnet needed 2 new categories

Ahh i see

nightmare category

Jupstar ✪

nightmare category

gores category greenthing

greenthing

0x314

I think we need discord forums/thread (how is it even called). So anyone can create a thread to discuss some topic, so general/other channel wouldn't be a mess and we could see how important is fixing that issue

good idea

epyc

I'm very supportive of new things, if you make a good value proposition for your new thing, I'll probably support it. But you have to atleast try to make a proposition, you can't just pull up and say ok we decided, don't care what you 5 think

2

MoonTea

good idea

@Learath2 is it hard to add?

@Learath2 maybe u will explore this idea?

0x314

@Learath2 is it hard to add?

Not really, it can be done. Maybe make a thread on the internal forum and I'll write a description/some rules for it later this week

wow! thank u!!

19:34

very much

nice idea tho

Something like a town hall would be nice to have so things can be discussed by regular players not involved in the project aswell

forum romanum

19:39

i wonder if there is anything to make the testing process itself more appealing. Like let's say there is some design bug, you get smth similar to an editor and just mark that part and it automatically uploads it to discord

19:40

or smth like that

I.K.U

the hostile 3 incident excluded

based

Cipy29

cipy29 client jokes are outdated mf

Ok buddy

Jupstar ✪

i wonder if there is anything to make the testing process itself more appealing. Like let's say there is some design bug, you get smth similar to an editor and just mark that part and it automatically uploads it to discord

Hm, should ask the testers what the pain points are, but I think the issue we are having right now doesn't have much to do with the tooling

Learath2

Hm, should ask the testers what the pain points are, but I think the issue we are having right now doesn't have much to do with the tooling

mh ok, one dev per team always sounds great (in theory), since they think more technical

Speaking about tooling, I was curious how does $optimize command work I mean, I have a file of tiles and I just don't use some tiles there. will those tiles be cut from the file? to optimize the file size.

19:47

It seems that this thing can be easily done automatically

we have a tool for that at least

I don't remember if $optimize does that but $optimize is basically twmap-edit --remove-everything-unused --shrink-layers

Learath2

I've noticed Kobra is really godawful for beginners, we really should think of some way to funnel players to an easier map

maybe introduce a new difficulty "Beginner" its basically novice 1 star but with friendly and modern map design

Jupstar ✪

we have a tool for that at least

how can I use the tool?

i would even say that a better multeasymap might be good, like a long map for groups of beginners, maybe even easier

20:41

easy multeasymap /j

Do you need help? @- q w 1 z

21:09

@no ego ?

Cipy29

fixing bit3 skip would've kept it pretty competitive tho

it is still competitive, nothing changed in the competitive

21:54

i also dont get how some people cry about the bit3 skip but skip EVERY other map

yes

2

0x314

how can I use the tool?

i dunno if there is a pre-compiled version, but if you know how to compile, download ddnet, compile map-optimizer and then it's simply drag and drop as far as i remember

Learath2

It wasn't even the entire decision, they wanted to create some new categories of maps, which we thought wasn't really needed or distinct enough from the current categories. I was even willing to give it a go just to see if we'd get some traction on them, but no one even wanted to discuss whether ddnet needed 2 new categories

To respond and provide some context, after more than a week of discussions (not a random proposal and all the channels are accessible on your side), we came up with this new category (not useless, it facilitates rerating and future rating and adds new styles to play) and for the first time, all the testers agreed among themselves along with a general hype from other players who participated and followed the discussion. The admins responded with "no" and never brought the debate back to the table even though the testers did 2 or 3 times, with the only argument being "you did not clearly present the proposal to the admins," which I find rather hypocritical considering what is added by the devs (who are mostly not very active or qualified players). I'm specifically thinking about the physics changes (the rocket map tunes that are unplayable), random changes in the editor, and the change in the way of /tp which was reinstated afterward (by the way, still not fixed for the test server rcon).

yeah i agree that /tp change was absurdly stupid

22:15

now i have to seriously convolute my binds just to get it to behave how it used to

22:17

i think this would be less of a problem if ddnet admins actually played the game and heard about distaste for a lot of these decisions most players know nothing about

22:17

not just from angry players

VéNa

To respond and provide some context, after more than a week of discussions (not a random proposal and all the channels are accessible on your side), we came up with this new category (not useless, it facilitates rerating and future rating and adds new styles to play) and for the first time, all the testers agreed among themselves along with a general hype from other players who participated and followed the discussion. The admins responded with "no" and never brought the debate back to the table even though the testers did 2 or 3 times, with the only argument being "you did not clearly present the proposal to the admins," which I find rather hypocritical considering what is added by the devs (who are mostly not very active or qualified players). I'm specifically thinking about the physics changes (the rocket map tunes that are unplayable), random changes in the editor, and the change in the way of /tp which was reinstated afterward (by the way, still not fixed for the test server rcon).

Thankfully we keep archives so this is all very well documented. There are many instances of one of us coming into the channel and asking clarification, explanation. Even Coke asking things and receiving no answers, you wouldn't even grace us with a log of your own discussions where you decided stuff unilaterally

22:19

You don't get to ghost us because you think we are "not very active or qualified players". What did you think was going to happen? If you don't answer long enough you'd win the argument by default and the changes would make themselves?

1

justatest

HY

I need to check the log, but I remember explaining (either myself or another tester) the category to a lot of players and staff, and we never ghosted the admin.

Whether you like it or not, this is a community project. It takes everyone to run it, all the mods, all the testers, all the devs, they all need to communicate for it to work. You don't just get to decide since you are all very experienced players

and i can even say that all the discussion about this category was in 2 maps : escacez and a map by nehr i forgot the exact name

Learath2

Whether you like it or not, this is a community project. It takes everyone to run it, all the mods, all the testers, all the devs, they all need to communicate for it to work. You don't just get to decide since you are all very experienced players

ok but then why admins cut the project instantly ? as i said all tester or active tester were agree on it, and many others were on the discussion, some of them were mods and i remember talking with a mod that said me that they were talking about it in the mod channel + i think that it's important for everyone, but more related to tester section to have a category and a rerate with it.

Image attachment

Image attachment

Finish the write omg

VéNa

ok but then why admins cut the project instantly ? as i said all tester or active tester were agree on it, and many others were on the discussion, some of them were mods and i remember talking with a mod that said me that they were talking about it in the mod channel + i think that it's important for everyone, but more related to tester section to have a category and a rerate with it.

There were 3 broad requests:

Change of testing/mapping rules.
Adding of new roles and tester levels.
Adding of two new categories, for two new maps, one each. The first one we didn't even argue about, it was just published as written.

Second one I questioned why this sort of role hierarchy was needed with this little amount of testers. I got adequate-ish explanations, this was going to be added with just one role slightly renamed. Third one was the contentious one, of the 6 admins. 1 was willing to give it a try, 2 did not see the reason to add two whole categories for two maps, 1 did not give an opinion, 1 thought this sort of solo gameplay is not in the nature of ddnet, 1 I don't remember right now. I'm not going to say who said what, that's their own prerogative to reveal. So I asked if you had any maps that would be moved to this category. I got 1 person replying that you had 6 maps in testing that could fit + the short catalog that could be recategorized. These two categories are speedrunning categories, the reason they got a lot of traction among the testers was that you are all very good players that want a challenge. I got no other/further information about why these categories were a good idea, I was not referred to the discussion you guys had. I went back and reported my findings to the others, none were swayed by a handful of short maps being recategorized into a category that was no different . So exactly why would we make a change that none of us really think is a good idea, given no reason other than: "We'll put some maps that already fit other categories but are short in there".

any mods that have acess to ukr servers online?

To be fair, it'll always be "Why do 6 people that don't even hold any rank1s get to decide anything?". So there is little point in us discussing this (edited)

its never too late to start a ddnet speedrunning career

23:00

deen was a speedrunner long time ago

the original crew were all pretty good players, except for the tech team

1- yes, new testers are added by a vote of the testers / the new mapping rules were created by pipou 1 year ago then cut in half by murpi then he added the 2 weeks rule, contested by the majority of testers, but murpi decided that we keeps the rule. 2-imo I'd like a lead tester or a team of testers to decide for themselves and not an admin. For the tester trials, it's a way of integrating players interested in testing to become testers and to have a more important channel in testing. 3- 2 admins against because a new category doesn't come with 200 map????? And it's not just for 2 maps as you say, some maps had to change category and others were being created (quix on a solo and sickcunt on a duo). That would make 3/5 or 3/4 if that's the only reason for their refusal, because 1 admin doesn't have an opinion and 1 other where we don't know. I also have the impression that the category has been misunderstood, it's a whole style, not just for speedrun even though it's part of it. As for the other information, it's in the channel logs from when we were discussing it for 1 week, and also in the pipou rules before they were cut off by murpi. If any information is misunderstood I can always explain it later (edited)

any mods here?

Learath2

To be fair, it'll always be "Why do 6 people that don't even hold any rank1s get to decide anything?". So there is little point in us discussing this (edited)

This has nothing to do with the rest. All the testing team are not competitive player, i'm the only one trully in the speedrun

there are a lot of blockers on linear rus1

23:40

with dark skins

23:40

idk what to do

#✉-create-a-ticket

ok mb

VéNa

1- yes, new testers are added by a vote of the testers / the new mapping rules were created by pipou 1 year ago then cut in half by murpi then he added the 2 weeks rule, contested by the majority of testers, but murpi decided that we keeps the rule. 2-imo I'd like a lead tester or a team of testers to decide for themselves and not an admin. For the tester trials, it's a way of integrating players interested in testing to become testers and to have a more important channel in testing. 3- 2 admins against because a new category doesn't come with 200 map????? And it's not just for 2 maps as you say, some maps had to change category and others were being created (quix on a solo and sickcunt on a duo). That would make 3/5 or 3/4 if that's the only reason for their refusal, because 1 admin doesn't have an opinion and 1 other where we don't know. I also have the impression that the category has been misunderstood, it's a whole style, not just for speedrun even though it's part of it. As for the other information, it's in the channel logs from when we were discussing it for 1 week, and also in the pipou rules before they were cut off by murpi. If any information is misunderstood I can always explain it later (edited)

1. Don't blame just murpi for the 2 weeks thing, it took us a lot of discussion to figure out what the rule should be. You are up, give us the correct way to handle map changes. 2. Decide what for themselves, that's the only issue we had. 3. The category being completely misunderstood is entirely the testers doing. As per your second point you don't really care much what we think, so none of you thought you even had to explain anything. If you still think these two categories would be a good addition to ddnet, let's talk about it. I was planning on starting a new forum section on here where the community can discuss things. It would be interesting to see what other people think

23:54

(2. The testing teams always get extreme leeway in how they test and what they deem is "good quality", they already get to decide almost anything they want within testing. If that is not enough, what should be the scope of testers?)

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