DDraceNetwork - developer

Peter0x44

It can't be worse than sysvinit

I would just out of pure ideology use sysvinit and spend an extra minute booting

I'm using systemd-boot and systemd for DHCP and I think DNS And it has "just worked" as much as it can But I'm not defending it on some experienced level

i don't think systemd does dns

00:01

network-manager or dhcpcd

What's even more disgusting is how systemd slowly absorbed other projects into it. Such as udev, they promised it wouldn't become dependant on systemd. It was dependant immediately the next version. Gentoo had to maintain eudev for a decade

Ewan

network-manager or dhcpcd

I think it does

00:02

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/systemd-resolved

Systemd-resolved

00:02

This thing

systemd does everything worry not

oh i see

it's a nasty tumor that just has it's hand in every pie so that it becomes undissectable

i guess it's more, like

00:03

backdoor prone

Learath2

What's even more disgusting is how systemd slowly absorbed other projects into it. Such as udev, they promised it wouldn't become dependant on systemd. It was dependant immediately the next version. Gentoo had to maintain eudev for a decade

"had to maintain" are they still maintaining it?

they ate consolekit, they ate polkit, they even ate cgroups support from the kernel

Ewan

backdoor prone

Wasn't the xz thing related to systemd in some way?

Peter0x44

"had to maintain" are they still maintaining it?

A few volunteers are still keeping it kinda up to date, but systemd gracefully allowed us to have udev back so we can use systemd-udev without systemd too

00:06

Why on gods green earth does my init system need to be connected to my dns resolver in any way? Why is my dns resolver going over dbus? Why is my init system involved in spawning containers? Why is my init system booting my computer? Why is my init system doing ntp?

Ewan

backdoor prone

ofcourse it is, just imagine the attack surface

00:07

good luck backdooring sysvinit, it's not connected to anything, it won't interpret anything itself

I think for DHCP I'm actually using whatever thing iwd has built in for it

Anyway, I don't really need any of these logical reasons to not like systemd. It completely goes against everything I believe fundamentally. It's like saying "autocracy is good because a good dictator can make better decisions faster than a democracy"

00:09

I still wouldn't want to live in a dictatorship

Learath2

I still wouldn't want to live in a dictatorship

You already do

1

00:10

But... lets keep it technical I guess

It's a hypothetical

00:13

and systemd kept me up for an extra hour, so I'll never forgive it for that either

anybody wanna play? (edited)

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76935 There was this incident also that managed to annoy Linus

<ChillerDragon> ddnet 9 finds no ger servers? @heinrich5991 did we drop support for 10 yr old ddnet versions? xd

00:17

<ChillerDragon> @Ryzen I sent you the exact code. I sent you two projects that implemented dummies and are ready to use. And the command you can use to get ddnet up and running with dummies. If you have trouble with any of those let me know some details.

00:17

<ChillerDragon> but if you keep asking for a func name you won't progress here.

00:19

<ChillerDragon> @David i don't remember seening a svg template but maybe this helps https://github.com/TeeworldsDB/graphictemplates/blob/master/grids/grid_skins_07.png

graphictemplates/grids/grid_skins_07.png at master · TeeworldsDB/gr...

Templates for teeworlds graphic creators. Contribute to TeeworldsDB/graphictemplates development by creating an account on GitHub.

Peter0x44

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76935 There was this incident also that managed to annoy Linus

Yeah, see these people there is something wrong with them. Added Kay Sievers to my list of prayers

<ChillerDragon> @David here is greensward as svg maybe that helps you too :) https://github.com/teeworlds/teeworlds/files/3294053/greensward.zip

Learath2

Yeah, see these people there is something wrong with them. Added Kay Sievers to my list of prayers

I don't remember if the fix was done on the kernel side or not

00:23

But just... Not prefixing your own configuration seems ridiculous

Peter0x44

But just... Not prefixing your own configuration seems ridiculous

I'll tell you my opinion on it, they are entitled. This is the behaviour I've observed from these people ever since that first blog post about "Reimagining PID 1". They would eat the kernel whole if they had the development capacity

1

Learath2

I'll tell you my opinion on it, they are entitled. This is the behaviour I've observed from these people ever since that first blog post about "Reimagining PID 1". They would eat the kernel whole if they had the development capacity

And regarding the init systems, is openrc or runit better? Any opinions there?

00:29

Regarding systemd-boot I think it might be the only part of systemd that can kind of be described as "minimal"

Peter0x44

And regarding the init systems, is openrc or runit better? Any opinions there?

I've been using openrc, on everything, for a decade, it works, it's fast, it doesn't overreach

It's basically just a menu that lets you pick a boot entry, nothing more

00:30

Way better than grub ime

00:30

But of course grub sucking doesn't excuse systemd

Peter0x44

Regarding systemd-boot I think it might be the only part of systemd that can kind of be described as "minimal"

I've used it before and it is surprisingly well isolated, but I've moved back to refind nowadays

Peter0x44

Way better than grub ime

Grub is absolutely terrible and I hate how it's pushed on new users

<ChillerDragon> lmao lerato and the big systemd conspiracy

It's the source of one of my 3 full arch breakages so far

Learath2

I've used it before and it is surprisingly well isolated, but I've moved back to refind nowadays

Mostly because again, I find the way systemd and it's main developers conduct themselves abhorrent. Don't want anything conjured up by them anywhere near me

<ChillerDragon> @Learath2 yea the ddnet prs were indeed piling up. It almost hit the magic number 69 which would match the stale prs in teeworlds o.O

Peter0x44

It's the source of one of my 3 full arch breakages so far

yeah, grub has grown very troublesome, I think it's all the legacy and advanced configuration that's making it so prone to breakage

00:33

refind just works, it's a single efi binary, no configuration required

I think I updated it and had to regenerate the config to make my system boot again

I even patched a couple things in refind, that's how nice the codebase is

Peter0x44

I think for DHCP I'm actually using whatever thing iwd has built in for it

what distro are u using?

<ChillerDragon> gentoo

honestly network-manager worked for all of my network needs

ewan was asking peter

00:34

<ChillerDragon> omg xd

00:34

<ChillerDragon> reply moment

ah

00:34

u don't get those

<ChillerDragon> i wanted to flex that i am lerato fan 1

chiller i think matrix bridge supports replies

<ChillerDragon> yes but i dont support matrix

so true

gentoo user would never give up a moment to mention gentoo

gn big boys

<ChillerDragon> do a grep for ChillerDragon.heinrich.matrix in ddnet/teeworlds irc and u know why

I've been using network-manager on my laptops, it's quite a nice piece of software aswell. Surprising that it came out of Red Hat

1

<ChillerDragon> ye good morning time to make some coffee

whats bad with red hat

00:36

i thought they were the messiahs of the nerd world.

stallman is

louis

whats bad with red hat

Coporatization of linux gives me the heebie jeebies

and gnu community

Learath2

I've been using network-manager on my laptops, it's quite a nice piece of software aswell. Surprising that it came out of Red Hat

Nm has given me nothing but problems I avoid it as much as I can

i have a hard time listening to a guy who eats goo from his foot

2

<ChillerDragon> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxD

Ewan

i have a hard time listening to a guy who eats goo from his foot

wha

Peter0x44

Nm has given me nothing but problems I avoid it as much as I can

iwd does everything for me, except bluetooth But I don't care for it anyway

<ChillerDragon> you don't know the clip?

PulseAudio is another one of Red Hats messes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I25UeVXrEHQ

John Rearick

Richard Stallman Eats Something From His Foot

why is that age restrictedl mao

the way he takes off his sock and just goes in

00:37

LOL

Peter0x44

iwd does everything for me, except bluetooth But I don't care for it anyway

iwd shouldn't even try to do something with bluetooth, i think

Honestly whenever I see freedesktop.org I get chills down my spine

bluez exists xd

zhn

iwd shouldn't even try to do something with bluetooth, i think

It doesn't

00:38

Can I just say another one of my hates is gitlab instances

Ewan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I25UeVXrEHQ

ew, I forgot this gem

Including now freedesktop and arch

<ChillerDragon> > Taste of freedom.

true

Peter0x44

Including now freedesktop and arch

gnome

Peter0x44

Including now freedesktop and arch

anything these ppl can do to rebel from microsoft tho

00:39

they will do

Gitlab is the worst for reporting bugs Bugzilla and flyspray are both better, Arch's new thing is just crazy

bugzillas are pretty straightforward

When you open an issue on a package it just assigns this random dude instead of the package maintainer

I wonder who wrote bluez. Yet another banger stack of software

And he's so obnoxious

One of the few times I have felt that everything justworked

Learath2

I wonder who wrote bluez. Yet another banger stack of software

I've seen people say bluez is really bad codebase wise

i actually had a lot of issues with bluez

00:40

devices would connect but not be remembered

00:41

and audio was a complete shitshow

Peter0x44

I've seen people say bluez is really bad codebase wise

The kernel half is awful

00:41

The userland is quite nice

Ewan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I25UeVXrEHQ

"stallman only obtains food from free and open sores"

it's true

I don't use bluetooth so I don't really care though

Ewan

and audio was a complete shitshow

Huh, maybe I got lucky with my headphones, both my sony headphones and my samsung ones worked great

i use bluetooth mouse, keyboard, headset

00:42

it was mainly the pulseaudio integration i had issues with

AHA

yea

Peter0x44

When you open an issue on a package it just assigns this random dude instead of the package maintainer

Why not the maintainer? I have no idea If you agree to maintain a package you should agree to respond to bugs on it

Ewan

and audio was a complete shitshow

idk worked for me with all my zoo of blueshit

Ewan

yea

I have been enjoying pipewire a lot. It is so flexible and works so well

00:42

And designed by sane people this time

it seemed overhyped to me

00:43

bad memory footprint

00:43

but that's when it first came out

PA never caused big issues for me but I figure it's obsolete now, so I switched to PW anyway

polymorphism via overloading global function fires

like imagine you have one exactly indirection in your vector of objects with no vtable lookup

00:45

nah with vector it will be always +1

00:45

\

vtable lookup isn't particularly expensive though

Ewan

vtable lookup isn't particularly expensive though

depends

00:51

but anyway its kinda neat that you have that way of doing things

00:51

https://godbolt.org/z/xEPrf7azx

Compiler Explorer - C++

template <typename T> void draw(const T &x, std::ostream &out, size_t position) { out << std::string(position, ' ') << x << std::endl; } class myclass_t {}; void draw(const myclass_t &, std::ostream &out, size_t position) { out << std::string(position, ' ') << "myclass_t" << std::endl; } class object_t; using document_t = std::vector<obje...

this is the C way

00:52

essentially

00:52

it is nice that it offloads the "lookup" to compile time (edited)

00:54

but then u have to lookup every method access

wait does c have function overloading

sort of

00:55

the typical way of doing this in C is method_for_a/method_for_b but there have been C additions to add overload behavior

zhn

like imagine you have one exactly indirection in your vector of objects with no vtable lookup

I don't get it, this is exactly how a vtable is implemented

check the link

00:55

as ewan said it moves all lookup to compile time

yea it moves that one

00:55

but all the rest in ur codebase, no

00:56

may be more expensive in the long run

(Compilers can also do that btw, devirtualisation has gotten better over time)

00:56

I'll have to take a look tomorrow, I'm on a phone

ow

watafak chat updates every minute, not second

wdym

discord updates the chat in a very strange way

00:59

for me*

can someone tell me why gores players use 5:4

01:00

i can't fathom a benefit

01:00

if it's about FOV just zoom out 1 or 2

Learath2

(Compilers can also do that btw, devirtualisation has gotten better over time)

the cool thing there is that operator << in ostream overloaded for most standard types so you don't have to overload your function for them by hands

01:03

https://sean-parent.stlab.cc/papers-and-presentations/#value-semantics-and-concept-based-polymorphism

Papers and Presentations

Too many projects, too little time.

Ahhh, this thing. I have posted this here before, from the talk

1

neat idea but it only seems viable if you're working in a codebase with no C++ dependencies

Ewan

can someone tell me why gores players use 5:4

everyone i've asked just says "it feels nicer"

01:09

i just don't get it

01:09

maybe it's just cuz they're pushing less pixels

Ewan

everyone i've asked just says "it feels nicer"

5:4 covers ~same amount of tiles in all directions from the center of screen

01:11

really helps on vanilla

01:11

dk/dc about gores

Ewan

can someone tell me why gores players use 5:4

cause they think it has benefits

01:12

i mean it can have benefits in games like cs but a lot of it is pseudo feeling

more questionable why they stretch it over the screen

01:12

like

01:12

play in window mode wth

bad delay

01:12

tho on most ppl's monitors non-native resolution will also introduce delay

zhn

more questionable why they stretch it over the screen

cuz they want the stretch

the stretch is so bizarre

01:13

i don't want to aim in an oval

that's why cs players play with stretch, it makes hitboxes look bigger

Ewan

tho on most ppl's monitors non-native resolution will also introduce delay

opposite for mine builds then :/

01:13

my*

there's probably some similar placebo effect with gores

Ewan

neat idea but it only seems viable if you're working in a codebase with no C++ dependencies

wdym

01:13

it exactly uses all benefits of raii doesn it

raii unrelated

01:14

u need some abstract class to call methods on a type representing any of its children

perhaps it scales better with the human aspect ratio

i'd say the area of peripheral focus is more like 5:4 than 16:9

Ewan

u need some abstract class to call methods on a type representing any of its children

which doesn't exist in this 'paradigm'