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DDraceNetwork
Development / developer
Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.org/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories — IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet
Between 2024-05-18 00:00:00Z and 2024-05-19 00:00:00Z
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when will the database problem of the discord bot be fixed 😦
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never ,,,
01:27
c8f6811 Also print external module/symbol names in parse_drmingw.sh - Robyt3 554f244 Remove redundant graphics backend functions returning RGBA format - Robyt3 1cb9f07 Merge pull request #8370 from Robyt3/Scripts-DrMingw-Show-All-Modules - def- 058382f Merge pull request #8367 from Robyt3/Graphics-Backend-Image-Format-Cleanup - def-
01:28
bba606f Translate back-button to escape-key on Android - Robyt3 91848f0 Quit if Android back-button is pressed 3 times within 1 second - Robyt3 fcacef5 Merge pull request #8362 from Robyt3/Android-Backbutton-Handling - def-
02:31
has anyone seen this? (edited)
02:39
although a language without for loop is a bit wild for me (edited)
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I think high level gpu programming generally doesn't work
03:04
the GPU does not like to do complex things, it wants to be a SIMD machine
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also using a 4090 to benchmark against is a little unfair, it's so overpowered, it should be able to get more OPS than a 32 thread cpu at like 10% utilization
03:15
most people do not have 15% of a 4090 in their pc xd
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Ewan
never ,,,
Murpi said he is rewriting the entire bot right now, no ETA yet iirc tho
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never...
justatest 2
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Do you save ur ssh keys somewhere or you create new when you change os?
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MilkeeyCat
Do you save ur ssh keys somewhere or you create new when you change os?
i always create new, its not like someone should swap os 2 times a day :D
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morning statically typed language devs
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louis
has anyone seen this? (edited)
yes, and its slow for simple examples
08:03
Twirrim 14 hours ago | next [–] For what it's worth, I ported the sum example to pure python. def sum(depth, x): if depth == 0: return x else: fst = sum(depth-1, x*2+0) # adds the fst half snd = sum(depth-1, x*2+1) # adds the snd half return fst + snd print(sum(30, 0)) under pypy3 it executes in 0m4.478s, single threaded. Under python 3.12, it executed in 1m42.148s, again single threaded. I mention that because you include benchmark information: CPU, Apple M3 Max, 1 thread: 3.5 minutes CPU, Apple M3 Max, 16 threads: 10.26 seconds GPU, NVIDIA RTX 4090, 32k threads: 1.88 seconds The bend single-threaded version has been running for 42 minutes on my laptop, is consuming 6GB of memory, and still hasn't finished (12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-1270P, Ubuntu 24.04). That seems to be an incredibly slow interpreter. Has this been tested or developed on anything other than Macs / aarch64? I appreciate this is early days, but it's hard to get excited about what seems to be incredibly slow performance from a really simple example you give. If the simple stuff is slow, what does that mean for the complicated stuff? If I get a chance tonight, I'll re-run it with -s argument, see if I get anything helpful.
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Ryozuki
morning statically typed language devs
Morning i3wm enjoyers and others
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meloƞ
Morning i3wm enjoyers and others
hope u enjoy ur bugs 😬
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Ryozuki
yes, and its slow for simple examples
prolly bcs it looks like pyson
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Morning nvim gangs and others (edited)
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MilkeeyCat
Morning nvim gangs and others (edited)
stream or did not happen
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nvim 0.10 pog
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Ryozuki
nvim 0.10 pog
stream or did not happen
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Jupstar ✪
stream or did not happen
I can when i install debian 😏
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MilkeeyCat
I can when i install debian 😏
u can also stream on gentoo
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Nono
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show me some epyc commands
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I plan on installing it today
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are you tired of self compiling or why
09:11
or are u just in a try out phase
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It's too complicated for my reptile brain
09:12
And i dont have hundreds of cores to compile all that shit
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well the problem is, you don't have to understand everything to do whatever you do. Learning gentoo might give you some skills, but maybe u dont even want these skills
09:13
i personally mostly dislike compiling so much. else i'd probably also use arch or smth
09:13
but it feels like 70% of all good packets are required to be compiled xd
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Do you also have to compile stuff on arch?
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well lot of packets are only in the AUR
09:14
is there a binary version for this?
09:14
for me it always compiled stuff
09:14
rocm took like 1h to compile or smth xd
09:14
was horrible
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It's very rare but I will sometimes use a flatpak
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flatpak :(
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Especially for packages that use qt webview
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are u on the gentoo
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that would explain
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Oh btw that is if there is no official binpkg for it
09:29
If there is an official binpkg, I'll use that one
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@Learath2 when do you stream
09:36
brownbear
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What would you like me to stream?
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Learath2
What would you like me to stream?
coding smth in ur preferred language and setup
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It wouldn't be very exciting. I write code in bursts. Lots of idle time while I plan things out in my head
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u can take an easy project. i think it's funny to see how other ppl solve problems
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Learath2
Especially for packages that use qt webview
i compile qt web and gtk web like a chad
09:43
gtk web literally is more bloat than firefox
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Ryozuki
i compile qt web and gtk web like a chad
You use a 64 core beast though 😄
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webkit-gtk
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Learath2
You use a 64 core beast though 😄
is this true
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My processor is from 2013, it has 4 cores 8 threads 😄
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Ewan
is this true
No, it's 16c ai think
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24 core*
09:44
at 5.5ghz iirc
09:44
64gb ram
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Ewan
haswell?
Yep
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Ryozuki
24 core*
24 core or 24 thread
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thread
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Learath2
Yep
good
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Ryozuki
thread
same
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mimimi
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similar config
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gotta say 16 cores are really cheap nowadays
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i think u have my processor on steroids
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AMD Desktop von AMD | AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 16x 3.40GHz So.AM4 WOF :: Lagernd :: über 16.240 verkauft :: 27 Jahre Kompetenz | Hier bestellen
09:45
318€
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I'm getting a new laptop soon(tm)
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do u travel so much that u can only use laptop
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Need to pick a distro for it
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i can't do serious work on laptops xd
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Learath2
Need to pick a distro for it
arch linux.
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Ewan
do u travel so much that u can only use laptop
I'd like to work outside a bit
09:46
distcc on ur home network
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gentoo
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I also do travel quite a lot
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Ewan
i can't do serious work on laptops xd
i also cant do that, but i think it's mostly about how you sit and if u use laptop keyboard etc. 😄
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i cant use other distroa
09:46
its unholy
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Ryozuki
gentoo
not interested in draining half of my battery to install one package
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@Learath2 repend for not using gentoo
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Hm gentoo with distcc would be a nice idea actually
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repent*
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Though the cpu of my desktop is probably weaker than whatever laptop I get 😄
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Learath2
Hm gentoo with distcc would be a nice idea actually
i tried it and see like no benefit over arch other than to just flex on the peons lol
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i have a bare metal wiyh a ryzen 3600
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Ewan
i tried it and see like no benefit over arch other than to just flex on the peons lol
it takes a million yrs to do anything
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and 128gb ram
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or 64 i forgor
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Ewan
i tried it and see like no benefit over arch other than to just flex on the peons lol
Hard disagree. USE flags and not having to use systemd is easily enough of a difference
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you can use other init systems on other distros
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I would never use arch btw. When I need an archlike I use artix
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i like openrc
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i like systemd because it makes sense
09:48
and it's what ppl are using
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sadly i think i use systemd udev or smth
09:49
i forgot
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I'm an eudev user
09:50
There are many sane init systems, all of them except systemd come to mind
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i think systemd does service dependencies better than other init systems
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We need a poetteringlike marketing campaign for openrc. Maybe pay off redhat or fedora to use it
09:54
i think for a laptop (if you use them like i do) gentoo is too much hassle
09:55
i just use mine when i leave the house
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I usually have artix on my laptops
09:55
Or way back in the day I used to have devuan on them
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biggest systemd hater
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Gentoo is fot elite power users
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keep telling urself that
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while u wait half an hour for firefox to compile
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i like to tease you
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i dont like being teased
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actually just 10 monst
09:56
mins
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Ewan
biggest systemd hater
I would gladly trade my life for systemd never having existed
09:56
Saving the world of this plague before I go would be a huge honor
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i run my script go shower and its done
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Learath2
Saving the world of this plague before I go would be a huge honor
lmfao
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Ryozuki
i run my script go shower and its done
routine W
09:57
my routine is very very bad lately
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Learath2
Though the cpu of my desktop is probably weaker than whatever laptop I get 😄
what cpu do u use on your desktop?
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Ewan
while u wait half an hour for firefox to compile
It happens in the background btw. I slowly compile stuff over the day
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yea i don't like doing that
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smudge
what cpu do u use on your desktop?
I have a 4770k
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Learath2
I have a 4770k
that's a banger cpu ngl
09:57
still holds up great today
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It's a classic. Sadly I wasn't lucky enough to get the 4790k upgrade on it. Mine still has the thermal troubles
09:59
i had an i5 4570
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Learath2
I have a 4770k
I have the non K version and it's performing very well still to this day
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and it was by no means a performant processor but it opened my eyes
09:59
got a ssd upgrade and i had an actually usable computer for quite cheap
09:59
$100 for old optiplex + cost of drive
09:59
+ eventually ram upgrade
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Ewan
i had an i5 4570
My upstairs neighbour had the 90 version of that for a very long time
10:00
also recently acquired a third gen i5. yet to do anything with that computer
10:00
at the new apartment we have to pay our own power bill so i can't homelab like i used to
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Sell it off
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i'd get nothing for it tbh
10:01
to most ppl these computers are e-waste
10:02
to me they are helpful for just being a computer that can be on all the time without major power succ (edited)
10:02
i think if i move again the only one i'd keep is my 9th gen i5 system
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As soon as I figure out where I'll live, I'll get an upgrade on my desktop
10:03
I desperately need a gpu upgrade too
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what are u on
10:03
i just upgraded from 1070 TI
10:03
to 3060
10:03
same perf lol
10:03
but 4GB more vram + more efficient
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It is pretty strong. But it doesn't have any rt cores, it has little vram
10:03
how much is little these days?
10:04
idk what 1080 came with
10:04
less than 8?
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It's 8, it's not little for gaming
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buy its not gddr6
10:05
but
10:05
i have 3080
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WHEN ZEN 5
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True, and AI stuff guzzles vram like it's nothing
10:05
i never do AI stuff
10:05
not rly that interesting to me
10:05
at least not in this medium
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in my personal, expert AI, opinion, VRAM is still very very far from what we'd need for proper AIs
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I will probably bump all the way up to a 4080 when I move
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1TByte VRAM is minimum
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idk if current GPUs are even the best for AI applications
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Jupstar ✪
1TByte VRAM is minimum
LOL. Do you mean AGI by proper AI?
10:07
In that case I do kinda agree yeah
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Learath2
LOL. Do you mean AGI by proper AI?
not even, but i always see these "ai learns to ..." videos
10:07
and they simply are too stupid out of box
10:07
they need some kind of understanding of the world.. basically a gpt-4
10:07
that can explain wtf going on
10:08
and then based on that i needs to build its expertise
10:08
and gpt-4 is still too bad actually
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Have you seen 4o? That looks interesting. I like multimodal stuff
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yeah looks interesting indeed, heinrich shared it here
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But yeah, there is imo a limit to what this sort of ai can achieve and there are papers slowly coming out suggesting I'm not wrong on that
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These don't actually "understand" anything per se. They are just very very good auto completers. Their "knowledge" doesn't quite match our understanding of knowledge
10:10
they can see the bigger picture but they can't put together proper code snippets
10:10
cuz it's all just copy paste shit from elsewhere
10:10
inconsistent api or whatever
10:10
and it can't understand that that's bad lol
10:11
also can't learn on the fly even when told something directly which is huge imo
10:11
you can give it some conditions but if it doesn't already grasp the fundamentals of ur idea then good luck
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I'd never really seen copilot in action until I started working. And it produces some stellarly stupid snippets sometimes
10:12
The demos are always like "isPrime" or "AStar", ofc it does these things good, just look how many people have implemented it in stackoverflow
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I saw an interesting ai that had say like 8 models and a router model that coordinated the 8 other models. The aim was to have "expert" models and a "manager" model. It didn't happen but it was a curious experiment
10:19
The AI ended up with expert models but the experts were not specialized at all. They were experts at things the authors couldn't even put into words very well. Like an expert at token placement in a programs first 40 lines
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Learath2
1080
1080 isn't bad at all ngl it's on par with 3060
10:20
980 and 1080 is the best 2 gpus nvidia has ever released to the market ngl
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smudge
980 and 1080 is the best 2 gpus nvidia has ever released to the market ngl
rtx 4090 is the best
10:20
with a huge huge margin
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smudge
1080 isn't bad at all ngl it's on par with 3060
This entire computer is starting to show it's age and I'm having trouble even pinpointing where it's falling short now. It seems the games are just not well optimized for this architecture anymore
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also 3060 is probably much more efficient
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Jupstar ✪
with a huge huge margin
yeah undoubtedly but despite 1080's age it's still holding up like a chad to this day
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it's good enough for 1080p gaming i guess
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Learath2
This entire computer is starting to show it's age and I'm having trouble even pinpointing where it's falling short now. It seems the games are just not well optimized for this architecture anymore
probably DX12 because 1080 wasn't really made for DX12 titles
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The fact that I'm on a 1440p monitor isn't helping either
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ddnet is also a vulkan title
10:22
😏
10:24
if u ask me most low level GPUs are failures, simply bcs they do exactly what GPU should not do: low core(shader core) count, clocked high
10:24
a 4090 that isnt at like 80% is super efficient
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Like elden ring ran fine-ish. But I could only ever get consistent 50fps. That's not great
10:28
look how the power consumption increases for almost nothing
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Lesgoo
😃 1
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Ryozuki
thread
16 core masterrace
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MilkeeyCat
Lesgoo
And i didnt lost data from home dir, yippee
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dont make git repo in home folder
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Ewan
dont make git repo in home folder
chillerdragon moment XD
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see https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/8356#issuecomment-2106043277 i want to bring this up again since i dont expect any response on a small and closed PR. we currently have /un{weapon} and /removeweapon {weapon-id}. from my previous PR comment:
can't we just remove the un{weapon} thingies and do it like this: first use of /shotgun gives the weapon second use of /shotgun removes the weapon Commands Like deep shotgun etc. should just toggle between on and of...
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All questionmarks are solids where tiles are missing ^^ minimal automapper test map
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MilkeeyCat
Lesgoo
Time to install LXQt --no-install-recommends! (edited)
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proof that grass_main_0.7 is full
justatest 1
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i couldnt figure out why my sound didnt work and then realized it was muted by default for some reason kek
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Always use black color to clear the window with all graphics backends, instead of using cl_background_color or cl_background_entities_color, respectively, as the clear color. The respective map background color is rendered using a quad in CMapLayers instead, so this should not affect appearance of maps. This does not have any noticeable effect on FPS. Previously, the unused part of the window (when it is resized smaller than 5:4 aspect ratio), was colored using the map background color,...
14:27
caa062c Always clear window with black color instead of background color - Robyt3 85b00ba Merge pull request #8374 from Robyt3/Graphics-Clear-Black - def-
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AssassinTee
All questionmarks are solids where tiles are missing ^^ minimal automapper test map
is it provably minimal? justatest
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Suggestion: Add function in f1 save_config to save config without quiting the game (edited)
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louis
is it provably minimal? justatest
xrd
16:16
hm, one off keyboard
16:16
yes
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ladies, gentlemen and arch users, what lib has this file? justatest
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i'd say libcrypto.so
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what package then? thonk
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openssh probably
17:08
(at least openssh)
17:09
i beat many packages depend on it indirectly (edited)
17:09
17:10
steam
17:11
17:11
but the real openssl is used by many more
17:12
so your answer is openssl provides libcrypto.so
17:12
i guess that is what you wanted to know?
17:12
or do you care which packages use this file
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i cant compile ddnet coz it has error No rule to make target '/usr/lib64/libcrypto.so', needed by 'DDNet-Server'. Stop. but i already have it ;-;
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did u do clean make after installing it?
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ooohh...
17:14
lets see justatest
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but tbh
17:16
"No rule to make target"
17:16
this sounds like it wants to compile it
17:16
not depend on it xd
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it compiled kek (edited)
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17:17
🌟
17:17
ok.. we need better star emojis
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time for nvidia drivers
17:18
ah shit here we go again
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MilkeeyCat
time for nvidia drivers
rip
17:18
only reason i still buy amd GPUs over nvidia
17:18
xdd
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welp, gg i guess Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable distribution that some required packages have not yet been created or been moved out of Incoming. The following information may help to resolve the situation: The following packages have unmet dependencies: nvidia-driver : PreDepends: nvidia-installer-cleanup but it is not installable PreDepends: nvidia-legacy-check (>= 495) but it is not going to be installed Depends: nvidia-driver-libs (= 525.147.05-7~deb12u1) but it is not going to be installed Depends: nvidia-driver-bin (= 525.147.05-7~deb12u1) but it is not going to be installed Depends: xserver-xorg-video-nvidia (= 525.147.05-7~deb12u1) but it is not going to be installed Depends: nvidia-vdpau-driver (= 525.147.05-7~deb12u1) but it is not going to be installed Depends: nvidia-alternative (= 525.147.05-7~deb12u1) but it is not going to be installed Depends: nvidia-kernel-dkms (= 525.147.05-7~deb12u1) but it is not going to be installed or nvidia-kernel-525.147.05 or nvidia-open-kernel-525.147.05 but it is not installable or nvidia-open-kernel-525.147.05 but it is not installable Depends: nvidia-support but it is not installable Recommends: nvidia-settings (>= 525) but it is not installable Recommends: libnvidia-cfg1 (= 525.147.05-7~deb12u1) but it is not going to be installed Recommends: nvidia-persistenced but it is not installable
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do you know what's even worse. a 7950x3d is only around 33% faster than my current CPU in 16core benchmarks my hopes for Zen 5 are huge
17:35
i need at least 66% more perf compared to my current cpu
17:35
somehow intel seems a better option
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MilkeeyCat
welp, gg i guess Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable distribution that some required packages have not yet been created or been moved out of Incoming. The following information may help to resolve the situation: The following packages have unmet dependencies: nvidia-driver : PreDepends: nvidia-installer-cleanup but it is not installable PreDepends: nvidia-legacy-check (>= 495) but it is not going to be installed Depends: nvidia-driver-libs (= 525.147.05-7~deb12u1) but it is not going to be installed Depends: nvidia-driver-bin (= 525.147.05-7~deb12u1) but it is not going to be installed Depends: xserver-xorg-video-nvidia (= 525.147.05-7~deb12u1) but it is not going to be installed Depends: nvidia-vdpau-driver (= 525.147.05-7~deb12u1) but it is not going to be installed Depends: nvidia-alternative (= 525.147.05-7~deb12u1) but it is not going to be installed Depends: nvidia-kernel-dkms (= 525.147.05-7~deb12u1) but it is not going to be installed or nvidia-kernel-525.147.05 or nvidia-open-kernel-525.147.05 but it is not installable or nvidia-open-kernel-525.147.05 but it is not installable Depends: nvidia-support but it is not installable Recommends: nvidia-settings (>= 525) but it is not installable Recommends: libnvidia-cfg1 (= 525.147.05-7~deb12u1) but it is not going to be installed Recommends: nvidia-persistenced but it is not installable
it's installing 😎
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Jupstar ✪
i need at least 66% more perf compared to my current cpu
Just make your code more efficient lol (edited)
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Teero
Just make your code more efficient lol (edited)
yeah, when do we get AI driven optimizations. rekognize patterns and optimize them with known optimizations 100% faster software would ofc be cool too 😄
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Jupstar ✪
yeah, when do we get AI driven optimizations. rekognize patterns and optimize them with known optimizations 100% faster software would ofc be cool too 😄
that would be so cool
18:02
you would literally help the whole world by making that xd
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the problems of the future need more ram
18:04
lot more ram
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just download more ram
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for that we need faster internet, and for faster internet we need more ram
18:13
every 4 years the ram doubles
18:13
jupstar's law
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I dont have screen tearing, pog
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MilkeeyCat
I dont have screen tearing, pog
lmao i just trained my brain i don't even see it anymore xd
18:19
and i'll do it again if it means i don't get input delay
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Teero
lmao i just trained my brain i don't even see it anymore xd
before i had huge ahh line in the middle of my screen
18:19
now i dont see it
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if you don't have a >60hz monitor response time kills me
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screen tearing is just like ram u need more hertz
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480hz and u probably cant see tearing anymore
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i need more ram for algo :(
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how much u have
18:21
when zen 5 finally drops in 20 years i want at least 64
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only 16 + 4swap
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rip (edited)
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Partial antping, adds cl_antiping_percent. If you ever played on higher ping servers and you use antiping you can see how much players jump, but without antiping your actions have a lot of delay. With this PR you can go somewhere inbetween the 2 extremes. cl_antiping_percent 50, only predicts 50% ahead, etc.

Checklist

  • [X] Tested the change ingame
  • [ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
  • [ ] Tested in combination with possibly related configuration options
  • [ ] Wr...
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hate this
18:24
it crashes on release
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get rich
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it doesn't on debug
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Teero
it crashes on release
turn on sanitizers
18:24
or is it out of ram xd
18:25
how do i turn off timeouts....
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ddnet server timeout
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debugging server while playing the game justatest
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Teero
ddnet server timeout
look into the ddnet commands overview
18:26
there is one that u can simply set to 400 or smth
18:26
then u have 400 minutes
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example:in /practice useing Dyn Cam and using /tc to teleport often results in ur teleporting very unprecise into a kill tile and then u respawn + ur view resets. so u have to go all the way over again with ur view quite annoying so I would add kill immunity atleast for 1-2frames, so u should be able to use /lasttp and still change ur postion with /tc
19:01
imagine a killtile map where u know u will fail mostlikely in the next 10sec but then u may wanna train that part. so make it like it was once before that u can set a /tc /tp position without beeing in practice
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a /practice modus where u can keep ur speed/fallspeed (velramp); like with blue teleporters. for many reasons like , parts where u should be fast or special maps like slide space is key flappy bird etc. alternative a /tcblue /tpblue /lasttpblue command instead of a new /practice modus
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whatever this is i like it
19:17
also @teini94 why did you open 3 issues, just put everything in one justatest
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@RUSt-devs twsnap is now on crates.io 🚀 crates.io: https://crates.io/crates/twsnap repo: https://gitlab.com/ddnet-rs/twsnap Its a collaboration between @Zwelf and me, to have interoperability between his physics and my renderer :) The main thing is the Snap (snapshot) struct, which is heavily typed and focused on usability. It is compatible with the ddnet snapshot and it also already includes a (ddnet) demo reader and writer. Compatibility with ddnet snapshot is possible thanks to @heinrich5991's libtw2, which is now also available on crates.io! twsnap is ofc still unstable, and it is still missing net messages
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why rus ping?
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discord weirdness
20:26
@rust-devs
20:28
there is no rust-devs role
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it was a made-up ping ^^
20:29
though imo it would be nice to have
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i feel like commands that are straight up disabled shouldnt be shown in /cmdlist
f3 2
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Patiga
@RUSt-devs twsnap is now on crates.io 🚀 crates.io: https://crates.io/crates/twsnap repo: https://gitlab.com/ddnet-rs/twsnap Its a collaboration between @Zwelf and me, to have interoperability between his physics and my renderer :) The main thing is the Snap (snapshot) struct, which is heavily typed and focused on usability. It is compatible with the ddnet snapshot and it also already includes a (ddnet) demo reader and writer. Compatibility with ddnet snapshot is possible thanks to @heinrich5991's libtw2, which is now also available on crates.io! twsnap is ofc still unstable, and it is still missing net messages
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