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DDraceNetwork
Development / developer
Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.org/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories — IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet
Between 2024-05-17 00:00:00Z and 2024-05-18 00:00:00Z
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AssassinTee
Working on something useful 🙂
♂S1mple♂ 2024-05-17 05:54:28Z
What it's going to do?
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 06:31:09Z
morning
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Teero 2024-05-17 06:50:13Z
gm
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MilkeeyCat 2024-05-17 06:50:50Z
Morning GMT+3 enjoyers and others
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meloƞ 2024-05-17 07:36:21Z
Morning systemd enjoyers and others
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 07:36:37Z
hi after gym
07:36
now rust
07:36
gigachad
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Ryozuki
hi after gym
meloƞ 2024-05-17 07:39:18Z
Did you think about what you wanna do as a package Manager yet ? gigachad
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 07:47:18Z
https://iroh.computer/
Iroh
Sync Anywhere
07:47
https://iroh.computer/docs
Documentation - Iroh
Learn about Iroh and how to integrate into your own project.
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meloƞ
Did you think about what you wanna do as a package Manager yet ? gigachad
Ryozuki 2024-05-17 07:48:32Z
hmm no but ill do something basic first
07:48
git based
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Ryozuki
git based
meloƞ 2024-05-17 07:48:56Z
owo
07:51
I thought about doing Something similar once with the declarative Part of nixOS for different Versions to Upgrade/downgrade and ease of linking different Versions But still easy to use (without having to manually specify each Version in a File)
07:53
Package Change python@2.7 you are using python3.0, are you Sure you want to Switch to Python Version 2.7? This will keep python3.0 installed But remove its symlink Something Like that
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 07:54:02Z
thats pyenv
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♂S1mple♂
What it's going to do?
AssassinTee 2024-05-17 07:54:42Z
It'll generate automappers for your tileset, you just need to configure each tile, but they're preconfigured. With the current state I can create an automapper for all of grass_main in under a minute
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meloƞ 2024-05-17 07:54:47Z
Yesyesyes, now do that for clang where you want clang17 But clang-format 10 without having to manually Download Compile and symlink/move it to /User/bin
07:55
I would want IT to Work with Git Tags aswell as releases
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AssassinTee
It'll generate automappers for your tileset, you just need to configure each tile, but they're preconfigured. With the current state I can create an automapper for all of grass_main in under a minute
♂S1mple♂ 2024-05-17 08:01:24Z
That's interesting
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Ryozuki
https://iroh.computer/
Teero 2024-05-17 08:02:31Z
first thing i see xd
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GitHub BOT 2024-05-17 11:13:15Z
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JSaurusRex
[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #8372 Presend inputs
The goal of this pr is to improve antiping player prediction https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/assets/50572621/3111e860-4684-48d0-9121-c2881c7a6dc5 This change sends inputs that already arrived at the server to the clients ahead of time. Under normal circumstances it can make the antiping ~1 tick more up to date because by default the clients run 10ms (as controlled by cl_prediction_margin) ahead of server time. But for higher ping players it can help greatly if the other party is wi...
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 11:18:35Z
Image attachment
11:20
https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/option/index.html#representation
std::option - Rust
Optional values.
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chillerdragon BOT 2024-05-17 11:51:10Z
That is amazing! I wanted to have such tool for a while now. But was too lazy to build it. Seems quite complex.
Replying to @AssassinTee SimpleDDNetAutomapper.PNG
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chillerdragon BOT 2024-05-17 12:06:20Z
abuse
Replying to @heinrich5991 (I kicked them and set the channel +m, having no ability to communicate …
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MilkeeyCat 2024-05-17 12:43:36Z
bans chiller
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Ewan 2024-05-17 13:12:12Z
you’re banned
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Ryozuki
https://iroh.computer/
Ewan 2024-05-17 13:13:25Z
looks like ipfs
13:13
with better marketing
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 13:26:05Z
https://blog.rust-lang.org/2024/05/17/enabling-rust-lld-on-linux.html
Faster linking times on nightly on Linux using rust-lld | Rust Blog
Empowering everyone to build reliable and efficient software.
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-05-17 13:30:23Z
sadly i already use mold
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 13:32:49Z
but good default for ppl who didnt change it
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-05-17 13:33:10Z
true, i just need zen5
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 13:34:30Z
@Jupstar ✪ why does the C ABI require 16 byte alignment for int128
13:34
when the cpu only needs 8 for efficient load/stores
13:34
AngryAwooGlitch
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Ryozuki
when the cpu only needs 8 for efficient load/stores
Jupstar ✪ 2024-05-17 13:35:10Z
bcs c must also run on my GPU
13:35
😏
13:36
tbh abi stability is such an impossible topic
13:36
but at least for debug mode i'd also like to see it on rust
13:36
simply bcs of hot reloading puposes
13:36
for release it should ofc prefer max perf
13:38
i'd already be happy if it's stable between two invocations of the same compiler
13:38
and per arch
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Ewan 2024-05-17 13:40:53Z
f3
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Ryozuki
@Jupstar ✪ why does the C ABI require 16 byte alignment for int128
Learath2 2024-05-17 13:40:54Z
ackshully C does not define an ABI 🤓
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Ewan 2024-05-17 13:41:11Z
i was about to say it
13:41
but 👽
13:41
where is the C language
13:41
find it
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Learath2
ackshully C does not define an ABI 🤓
Ryozuki 2024-05-17 13:42:15Z
so what does it?
13:42
the c call convention?
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Learath2 2024-05-17 13:42:33Z
C doesn't define a calling convention either
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 13:42:44Z
so its gcc and clang?
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Learath2 2024-05-17 13:43:07Z
it's the OS
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-05-17 13:43:07Z
i guess u simply mean alignment requirements
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 13:43:23Z
x86 needs just 8 byte for efficient load store of a i128
13:43
but to interface with C u need to use 16
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Ewan 2024-05-17 13:44:11Z
says who
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Learath2 2024-05-17 13:44:21Z
https://groups.google.com/g/x86-64-abi ask here y
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 13:44:26Z
In C and C++, on x86_64 Linux, alignof(__int128) is equal to 16. However, in Rust, align_of::<u128>() is equal to 8. C++: https://gcc.godbolt.org/z/YAq1XC Rust: https://gcc.godbolt.org/z/QvZeqK This will cause subtle UB if you ever try to use i128s across FFI boundaries; for example: C++: https://gcc.godbolt.org/z/PrtHlp Rust: https://gcc.godbolt.org/z/_SdVqD
13:44
this was fixed in rust 1.77
13:44
to be 16 too
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Ewan 2024-05-17 13:45:00Z
rplace
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-05-17 13:45:12Z
does c even have a 128 bit integer type standarized?
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Ewan 2024-05-17 13:45:17Z
No
13:45
maybe in modern C
13:45
idk actually
13:45
but i think it’s extensions
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Learath2 2024-05-17 13:45:50Z
Ah, I do have an idea why they do 16 byte alignment
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 13:47:05Z
simd?
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Ewan
maybe in modern C
Ryozuki 2024-05-17 13:47:25Z
C23 defines a int with arbitrary size i think
13:47
https://blog.tal.bi/posts/c23-bitint/
Arbitrary-sized Integers in C23
13:47
constexpr size_t K = /* compile time value */; typedef _BitInt(K) color; struct RGB { color R; color G; color B; }; /* sizeof(RGB) == 3 * K */
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Ewan 2024-05-17 13:48:54Z
wild
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Ryozuki
simd?
Learath2 2024-05-17 13:50:07Z
this was my guess but I couldn't find a source for it
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 13:50:15Z
simd requires 16byte align
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Learath2 2024-05-17 13:51:26Z
I meant as in a source that states that that is indeed the reason
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-05-17 13:52:36Z
friendly reminder:
13:52
Embedded image
13:52
that is what i call an alignment
13:53
16 bytes ,pff
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 13:53:10Z
whats that from
13:53
gpu?
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-05-17 13:53:14Z
yes
13:53
allocating memory for a texture
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 13:54:31Z
why that alignment?
13:54
is that the bus transfer alignment or smth
13:55
explain gpu expert
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-05-17 13:55:47Z
well i guess it has to do with such things yeah, but why exactly i dunno. could also simply be that when 2000 shader cores read from memory it sucks latency wise if they are too close
13:55
guess u'll need to ask chairn
13:56
i wonder anyway when GPUs actually cache memory vs when not
13:56
it's different to CPUs
13:56
time to sneak into nvidia corp
14:02
@Ryozuki do you often have to interact with low level stuff like alignment when working on your compiler? or does llvm abstract most stuff away and u just sometimes hit those?
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 14:06:15Z
you pass a data layout to llvm
14:06
and it handles those in store,loads and allocas
14:06
but the hack here is that when we want to call a function of the program from jit or as a lib we need to care (edited)
14:06
xd
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 14:19:40Z
friday
14:19
rust
14:19
@Jupstar ✪
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Ryozuki
@Jupstar ✪
Jupstar ✪ 2024-05-17 14:20:58Z
i updated quinn and rustls and have a bug now
14:21
epyc friday rust moment
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Learath2 2024-05-17 14:22:31Z
I did dig around a bit out of curiosity. Intels optimization guide for Intel 64 bit processors suggests that instructions that move data operate best with destinations that are aligned to the natural alignment of the type
14:23
Also, store to load forwards for 128-bit integers don't stall the pipeline if the destination of the load is aligned to the natural size
14:27
Finally I think it also allows compilers to optimize using SIMD registers to move 128 bit values more efficiently
14:28
http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/manuals/64-ia-32-architectures-optimization-manual.pdf here is what I was digging around it, mainly section 3.6.4, observe that the table only guarantees non stalled 128 bit store to load forwarding if both the store it naturally aligned and the load is from a dqword aligned address (also the natural alignment)
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 14:33:20Z
https://increment.com/software-architecture/exit-the-haunted-forest/
Exit the haunted forest – Increment: Software Architecture
Enough is enough with that thicket of code impeding nearby work, trapping the unwary, discouraging the inexperienced, and exhausting veteran developers!
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Learath2
http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/manuals/64-ia-32-architectures-optimization-manual.pdf here is what I was digging around it, mainly section 3.6.4, observe that the table only guarantees non stalled 128 bit store to load forwarding if both the store it naturally aligned and the load is from a dqword aligned address (also the natural alignment)
Ryozuki 2024-05-17 14:34:15Z
interesting, thanks
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 16:48:48Z
dead chat
16:50
https://www.osnews.com/story/139444/gentoo-bands-use-of-ai-tools/
Thom Holwerda
Gentoo bans use of “AI” tools
16:50
did we have trouble with ai prs and commits?
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Ryozuki
dead chat
meloƞ 2024-05-17 16:50:17Z
u
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 16:50:41Z
we should ban them to make a marketing pr post
16:50
gigachad poggers2
16:51
@Scrumplex did u have issues with ai prs
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Ryozuki
https://www.osnews.com/story/139444/gentoo-bands-use-of-ai-tools/
meloƞ 2024-05-17 16:51:17Z
imagine beeing called "osnews" and having a typo in your url
16:51
gentoo bands? what kind of music they playing!
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 16:51:37Z
xd
16:52
i hate mobile
16:52
https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/s/7ZezDaY9Ne
From the programming community on Reddit: NetBSD bans all commits o...
Posted by pyeri - 706 votes and 155 comments
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-05-17 16:54:31Z
"Gentoo Council" lmao
16:54
100 users have a council
16:54
to feel better
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meloƞ 2024-05-17 16:54:47Z
i like this one: This is a disturbing trend. The AI kids believe they can automate software engineering with AI chatbots yet they not even know what the software development process of software is. And they are very confident of what they don't have experience about A call it the new cargo cult programming
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Jupstar ✪
to feel better
Learath2 2024-05-17 16:55:29Z
don't be jealous you don't have a cool council making your decisions
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-05-17 16:55:32Z
the problem is, aren't gentoo ppl also rather script kiddies than actual software architects?
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Jupstar ✪
the problem is, aren't gentoo ppl also rather script kiddies than actual software architects?
meloƞ 2024-05-17 16:55:48Z
oh god what have you done, ryo will launch all his fishies at once
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Jupstar ✪ 2024-05-17 16:55:49Z
i mean they don't develop the software themself do they?
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Learath2 2024-05-17 16:56:19Z
They do develop some software, mostly distro management stuff like the package manager
16:56
Also in the past they maintained a fork of eudev when eudev took the systemdpill, and ofc the most important, they maintain OpenRC
16:57
Well technically nowadays openrc has split off a bit more, but it's still mostly the same people
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fokkonaut 2024-05-17 16:58:08Z
ping
pepeangryping 1
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Learath2 2024-05-17 16:58:13Z
There is also the linux kernel patchset they maintain for gentoo
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fokkonaut 2024-05-17 16:58:27Z
@melon
16:58
@meloƞ
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Learath2 2024-05-17 16:58:45Z
Are you having a stroke?
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fokkonaut 2024-05-17 16:58:49Z
Kinda
16:58
Sorry to interrupt haha
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Learath2 2024-05-17 16:58:57Z
rip, you'll be missed
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Learath2
rip, you'll be missed
fokkonaut 2024-05-17 16:59:07Z
oh, that's very kind
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meloƞ 2024-05-17 16:59:08Z
!ban fokkonaut 0
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fokkonaut 2024-05-17 16:59:10Z
❤️
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meloƞ 2024-05-17 16:59:49Z
i wanna know if NixOS will follow the same path in declining PR's that used AI
17:00
espacially because NixOS changes daily, whatever the AI spits out, is 99% wrong :D
17:03
i find it so interesting that we're all playing the same game and contributed to such - but everyone has his own preferences and does things differently, we have ~10 people in here activly chatting and every single one codes differently. Their environment, their toolchain, OS - it all differs at some point and i find that quite interesting. (edited)
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Learath2 2024-05-17 17:06:41Z
diversity is our power
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fokkonaut 2024-05-17 17:08:56Z
I'm still using windows and visual studio 😤
cat1 1
17:09
xDD
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Learath2 2024-05-17 17:09:31Z
That's okay, we still like you as is
❤️ 1
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meloƞ 2024-05-17 17:09:50Z
yeah.. haha hides knive we respect you totally!!
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fokkonaut 2024-05-17 17:10:05Z
🔫
monkaStop 1
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meloƞ
i find it so interesting that we're all playing the same game and contributed to such - but everyone has his own preferences and does things differently, we have ~10 people in here activly chatting and every single one codes differently. Their environment, their toolchain, OS - it all differs at some point and i find that quite interesting. (edited)
fokkonaut 2024-05-17 17:13:03Z
I think that kind of diversity can be applied to all human beings
❤️ 1
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Ryozuki
@Scrumplex did u have issues with ai prs
Scrumplex 2024-05-17 17:16:25Z
nope :o
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 17:18:23Z
17:18
@meloƞ right now
crythumbsup 1
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meloƞ
i find it so interesting that we're all playing the same game and contributed to such - but everyone has his own preferences and does things differently, we have ~10 people in here activly chatting and every single one codes differently. Their environment, their toolchain, OS - it all differs at some point and i find that quite interesting. (edited)
Ryozuki 2024-05-17 17:20:13Z
this channel is also a rust sanctuary
17:20
church*
17:20
in rust we trust
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meloƞ 2024-05-17 17:20:50Z
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Ryozuki
https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/s/7ZezDaY9Ne
EGYT 2024-05-17 17:24:29Z
my instance died again :^( (edited)
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 17:25:17Z
@meloƞ we also discuss compilers, C stuff, abis, the meaning of life and more
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Ryozuki
@meloƞ we also discuss compilers, C stuff, abis, the meaning of life and more
meloƞ 2024-05-17 17:25:46Z
!!
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 17:26:16Z
will ur kid learn rust? 🧐
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meloƞ 2024-05-17 17:26:49Z
at the age of 6 she will learn assembly, at the age of 8 she will learn how to build her own phone
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 17:26:56Z
good
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meloƞ 2024-05-17 17:26:59Z
rust will be learned to write the phone's backend
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 17:27:12Z
make sure to make her wear the appropiate programming socks
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Ryozuki
@meloƞ we also discuss compilers, C stuff, abis, the meaning of life and more
Learath2 2024-05-17 17:27:46Z
I'm always here to provide any knowledge you need from the old world
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meloƞ 2024-05-17 17:27:46Z
i will buy her some!
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Learath2
I'm always here to provide any knowledge you need from the old world
Ryozuki 2024-05-17 17:28:09Z
is it old if its needed?
17:28
learn the sys v abi by memory
17:28
the abi wizard
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Learath2 2024-05-17 17:28:44Z
It's not needed. You must be doing things wrong. Have you considered just using python?
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 17:28:51Z
justatest
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Ryozuki
learn the sys v abi by memory
Learath2 2024-05-17 17:29:35Z
This is a bit of a useless exercise imo. Atleast the details. I know the outline of it and where to look when needed instead
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MilkeeyCat 2024-05-17 17:29:40Z
Is there any haskell enjoyers?
brownbear 1
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 17:29:47Z
no
17:29
use elixir
17:29
more useful
17:29
look at phoenix
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MilkeeyCat
Is there any haskell enjoyers?
Learath2 2024-05-17 17:29:59Z
Deen used to be one iirc
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Learath2
Deen used to be one iirc
MilkeeyCat 2024-05-17 17:30:19Z
He's the only one i know about
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 17:30:24Z
but rust covers my functional needs already
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MilkeeyCat 2024-05-17 17:30:30Z
He made real time gif thingy in haskell
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 17:30:36Z
who doesnt love lazy iterators
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Ryozuki
use elixir
Learath2 2024-05-17 17:30:49Z
Let me tell you something funny. Most of my current job is migrating an old backend from elixir to golang
justatest 1
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 17:30:58Z
lmao
17:31
i guess they arent up to par
17:31
golang doesnt have a otp like elixir
17:31
elixir runtime is better for big scale
17:31
golang was made by google to train interna
17:31
interns
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Learath2 2024-05-17 17:32:05Z
If I understood correctly, their biggest snag was the lack of type safety
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 17:32:07Z
its a stupid simple ez lang
17:32
ah ye
17:32
not like golang shines lmao
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meloƞ 2024-05-17 17:32:22Z
i like golang °-°
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 17:32:22Z
interface{}
17:32
elixir is improving that tho
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meloƞ 2024-05-17 17:32:38Z
i have no real use-case for it - but i respect its existence :D
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Learath2 2024-05-17 17:32:44Z
Golang is statically typed. Interface{} is like a variant
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 17:32:54Z
its the hack used before generics
17:33
its like having no type safety
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MilkeeyCat 2024-05-17 17:33:02Z
https://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2010/12/haskell-researchers-announce-discovery.html?m=1
Haskell Researchers Announce Discovery of Industry Programmer Who G...
The worldwide Haskell community met up over beers today to celebrate their unprecedented discovery of an industry programmer who gives a shi...
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Ryozuki
its like having no type safety
Learath2 2024-05-17 17:33:33Z
It's more like opt-in dynamic typing
17:33
Most of everything I write is statically typed
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Ryozuki 2024-05-17 18:09:54Z
NekoDrink
Exported 211 message(s)