DDraceNetwork - developer

shouldn't be

01:20

use curl-easy

Ewan

is there a good Google Calendar alternative?

I use rem on the command line

i see

02:40

i need to be able to sign in through my phone

chillerdragon

I mean more harm than is already possible. If you say that Bombay can now redirect you to the china servers and tencent has your ip that is not a valid argument. Because Bombay probably already shares your ip with the Chinese government with some discord moderation tool. You just don’t notice it.

but isnt that illegal?

06:10

they cannot collect data in europe and just send it to china

06:11

but anyway chiller. get a lawyer in this chat. i have many other questions too

sjrc6

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #8265 m_vPending in log.cpp is a memory leak device

!image Every chat message leaks 4000bytes As far as I can tell m_vPending does nothing, but I could be wrong. I could only observe it getting cleared when the game launches and it also doesn't get accessed otherwise.

morning rust devs and others

morning guy who isnt single anymore

morning rust devs and ryo's gf

07:38

or bf

morning

‍

07:40

Jupstar ✪

morning rust devs and ryo's gf

gf

@Ryozuki 1st gf or.. ?

2nd altho first was rly short

07:41

does anyone know how clang and gcc find the paths to the c runtime libs?

07:41

ld.so --list-diagnostics ?

Ryozuki

2nd altho first was rly short

short in height?

ye xd

07:41

no

07:41

in time

07:41

but also short

07:41

kek

xDDD

i found its with ld.so --list-diagnostics

07:47

path.prefix="/usr"
path.rtld="/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2"
path.sysconfdir="/etc"
path.system_dirs[0x0]="/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/"
path.system_dirs[0x1]="/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/"
path.system_dirs[0x2]="/lib/"
path.system_dirs[0x3]="/usr/lib/"
version.release="stable"
version.version="2.36"

GitHub

Click to see attachment 🖼️

that usage lmao

08:09

now i know why i cant run 2 clients at once troll

cyberFighter

now i know why i cant run 2 clients at once troll

that is because your pc does not have enough horse power

i cant fit no horses anymore

08:12

already have a whole ram in it already

I think it's impossible for the ddnet client to violate GDPR, unless it automatically violates it by default. If a server redirects you to a non GDPR compliant server then it's the server who redirects that is at fault. Ddnet is the browser entity in this context.

the ddnet licende included a non liabability thing doesnt it?

Tater

I think it's impossible for the ddnet client to violate GDPR, unless it automatically violates it by default. If a server redirects you to a non GDPR compliant server then it's the server who redirects that is at fault. Ddnet is the browser entity in this context.

yes, the point was more about that it makes it very easy

08:32

similar to how browsers dont prevent you to violate it

We are not the GDPR police

08:33

Any server can already violate gdpr trivially

Tater

We are not the GDPR police

yes, but there are ppl that have nothing better to do in their life

Jupstar ✪

yes, the point was more about that it makes it very easy

not our problem right? xD maybe put a warning referring to legal reference

Just store and track ips who connect to your server for identification purpose and you violate gdpr. Anyone can do it already

Teero

not our problem right? xD maybe put a warning referring to legal reference

i mean it's not a justice problem for us. but the few ppl that take GDPR very serious will probably complain here first

Tater

Just store and track ips who connect to your server for identification purpose and you violate gdpr. Anyone can do it already

but a server in the EU obviously has to not violate GDPR anyway, since EU laws apply here

08:34

but sending your IP to USA is harder, bcs there USA laws apply

08:35

so redirecting to a EU server is different than redirecting to USA server

It's not impossible to violate gdpr inside the eu, just send the ip to another server in usa

1

08:35

You don't need redirects (edited)

yes, but then you obviously do it on purpose

08:35

not by accident

Or send the ip to a third party in the eu. That also violates it since the user didnt consent to that either

08:36

You can argue joining the server is them consenting to us processing the ip, but they didn't consent to that third party processing it

are ips rly personal?

Learath2

You can argue joining the server is them consenting to us processing the ip, but they didn't consent to that third party processing it

but i think here it depends on how they are processed, aka are they logged etc.

I don't think there's any reason to even be concerned about user tracking from a ddnet redirect.

Anyway, I still maintain the position that this has nothing to do with us

It's not really possible

Ryozuki

are ips rly personal?

Tragically GDPR says yes

Jupstar ✪

but i think here it depends on how they are processed, aka are they logged etc.

Actually apparently doesnt. There was a legal theory that transient processing of personal data wasnt covered by gdpr, but I think it was tested in a german case

cant we put lile a accept redirect yes no popup?

1

Learath2

Anyway, I still maintain the position that this has nothing to do with us

not directly, but at least indirectly i'd say. bcs we give the power to redicrect but not the power to get a consent from the client

Ryozuki

cant we put lile a accept redirect yes no popup?

We don't need to, but if we do we should make it opt in so people can still make seamless redirects for stuff like multiservers

@Learath2 we can do a allowlist

08:40

like discord does with external links

08:40

aka remember i accepted this ip etc

Ryozuki

like discord does with external links

that is different tho. the user actively clicks the link

Problem is that allowlists use domains. This will be ips, which can change and make your experience less seamless again

discord just warns to prevent scam

Again, not our concern imo. There are many ways to break gdpr with ddnet client and server

Learath2

Again, not our concern imo. There are many ways to break gdpr with ddnet client and server

but through our service directly?

yes

08:42

Well

08:42

Ddnet does not store user data so there is no violation from ddnet only 3rd party servers who can do anything

Jupstar ✪

but through our service directly?

Depends on what you mean by "our service". Our services as in the master server and the gameservers we host?

imho the client is not a liability for ddnet.org but services provided are

Learath2

Depends on what you mean by "our service". Our services as in the master server and the gameservers we host?

if someone downloads unmodified client & server do these applications in itself violate GDPR

The client is never liable

u accept the MIT license when usingnit

Tater

The client is never liable

well what does never mean? if the client downloads a virus on purpose

Ryozuki

u accept the MIT license when usingnit

ddnet isnt even licensed under MIT

Jupstar ✪

if someone downloads unmodified client & server do these applications in itself violate GDPR

Why would they? Assuming they consent to sending their ip to the master server and whatever server they join, there is no other personal information being handled

Learath2

Why would they? Assuming they consent to sending their ip to the master server and whatever server they join, there is no other personal information being handled

well that is my question

08:45

do they or don't they

They don't in my non lawyer opinion

GDPR is not about theoretical tracking its about actual tracking. You can send user ip to hundreds of server around the world as long as they don't track them

if the master server is hosted outside of EU you could maybe argue they do. Then you could only argue that the master server is such an essential part of the game, that when u installed it and started it, u accepted that the client connects to the master server

It doesn't matter if it's outside the EU because it's compliant already

im in the dentist and i already wanna go away

Tater

GDPR is not about theoretical tracking its about actual tracking. You can send user ip to hundreds of server around the world as long as they don't track them

yes but that's only partially the point. in USA the laws allow u to track whenever you want. so why would a USA hoster care about EU laws

That doesn't make sense

it's not the task of the USA hoster to not violate GDPR

Jupstar ✪

yes but that's only partially the point. in USA the laws allow u to track whenever you want. so why would a USA hoster care about EU laws

They have to if they want to legally serve eu customers

Learath2

They have to if they want to legally serve eu customers

nope

Jupstar ✪

it's not the task of the USA hoster to not violate GDPR

It is if they want to serve eu customers 100%

since YOU connect to USA, the USA laws apply for the server hoster

That's why a lot of US sites straight up don't allow you to browse the website if you are from the EU

connecting to hoster is essential part of your service so is exempt

I think you are wrong on this one

Learath2

It is if they want to serve eu customers 100%

afaik it is not, at least not if they didn't host a service that the user used directly

08:48

aka a redirect

Downloading fonts was deemed not essential because they can be hosted locally

Jupstar ✪

afaik it is not, at least not if they didn't host a service that the user used directly

https://commission.europa.eu/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/rules-business-and-organisations/application-regulation/who-does-data-protection-law-apply_en

Who the General Data Protection Law applies to

Find out who the data protection law applies to.

Learath2

I think you are wrong on this one

downloading a font from google CDN is NOT googles fault

Check point 2 at the start (edited)

it's the website that has the HTML that tells the client to download from google CDN

08:49

assuming it's in USA

That's still allowed if it's essential download

Learath2

Check point 2 at the start (edited)

but google doesnt offer the service for a end user, but for a website hoster

08:50

so it's the task of the website hoster to get the consent

Tater

That's still allowed if it's essential download

no

08:50

it's 100% not

Source?

https://cookiefirst.com/de/google-fonts-und-die-dsgvo-wie-funktioniert-das/#:~:text=Ist%20die%20Verwendung%20von%20Google,die%20Server%20von%20Google%20gesendet.

CookieFirst

Google Fonts und die DSGVO: Wie funktioniert das?

Setzt Google Fonts Cookies? Ist die Verwendung von Google Fonts GDPR-konform? Wir beantworten diese Fragen in diesem Artikel.

Do you think Google CDN is just illegal everywhere in EU

08:51

Fonts are non-essential

eng version: https://www.cookieyes.com/documentation/google-fonts-and-gdpr/

Google Fonts and GDPR: How to Stay Compliant? - CookieYes

On January 20, 2022, the German court ruled that websites that include Google Fonts violate the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR).

Jupstar ✪

so it's the task of the website hoster to get the consent

Let's return to ddnet. This would be the server hosters responsibility. Currently you can also break the gdpr even without any redirect functionality

Learath2

Let's return to ddnet. This would be the server hosters responsibility. Currently you can also break the gdpr even without any redirect functionality

i agree with that, it's just the question if we want to make it easy to break GDPR

It's already trivial

but by accident

08:53

is the question

08:53

that it is easy on purpose is obvious xD

I think I don't care, if you do a redirect you figure out whether it's legal or not

but remember a developer wants to make a service easy to use and laws by nature are very hard. So in this case we'd make it easy to fuck up. And i also dislike this part about browsers btw. Downloading a font through google's API sounds completely sane as a developer

08:56

bcs u don't directly trigger some annoying laws in your head all the time

08:57

"annoying" - ofc it has a sense. it's just that it's too easy to break this law by accident

Jupstar ✪

but remember a developer wants to make a service easy to use and laws by nature are very hard. So in this case we'd make it easy to fuck up. And i also dislike this part about browsers btw. Downloading a font through google's API sounds completely sane as a developer

It is easy to use. It's just MAYBE not easy to use legally. I don't want to code for the eu gdpr

08:59

If it's very important for you maybe our info json can be used to force enable a "you are being redirected" prompt for eu players

You can make a check box that says "don't show redirect page again" and they only need to see it once

Or maybe a prompt at startup that you consent to the transfer of your ip address to the master server, all servers you connect to and all servers that you might get redirected to

since ddnet traffic is not encrypted, u could also say that it is even more important. imagine all chat msgs are sent through a server in russia or china which a very state controlled. But anyway, i am no lawyer and i also don't want to claim to be one. I could talk shit, but if i'd be 16 i'd 100% not have cared about some GDPR law and just redirect to whereever i wanted to. and then some hobbyless lawyer could sue me and most probably even win

Jupstar ✪

since ddnet traffic is not encrypted, u could also say that it is even more important. imagine all chat msgs are sent through a server in russia or china which a very state controlled. But anyway, i am no lawyer and i also don't want to claim to be one. I could talk shit, but if i'd be 16 i'd 100% not have cared about some GDPR law and just redirect to whereever i wanted to. and then some hobbyless lawyer could sue me and most probably even win

Thankfully a 16yo has no reasonable way to pay any fines, so you'd get away with it even if you lose

Someone make tater purple

Ryozuki

im in the dentist and i already wanna go away

checking up or getting work done?

ill have my wisdom tooth removed by 10th may