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DDraceNetwork
Development / developer
Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.org/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories — IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet
Between 2024-02-27 00:00:00Z and 2024-02-28 00:00:00Z
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ChillerDragon BOT 2024-02-27 00:21:32Z
@Zwelf I quoted you in my protocol docs. Let me know if thats not okay. https://chillerdragon.github.io/teeworlds-protocol/07/snap_items.html#obj_character_core
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ws-client BOT 2024-02-27 00:27:43Z
<ChillerDragon> This guy just forked the biggest garbage repo I had https://github.com/berkcelc So i wondered why. Now I see it. He is building a github portfolio with forks lmao. Looks like a active githubber at first glance but i am not sure if he ever published even a single commit.
Kod uzmanı. berkcelc has 183 repositories available. Follow their code on GitHub.
00:28
<ChillerDragon> Oh yes 2 commits and 183 forks xxxxxxxxxD
00:29
<ChillerDragon> I need to learn from this guy to boost my stats
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ws-client
<ChillerDragon> This guy just forked the biggest garbage repo I had https://github.com/berkcelc So i wondered why. Now I see it. He is building a github portfolio with forks lmao. Looks like a active githubber at first glance but i am not sure if he ever published even a single commit.
turkish moment
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can someone explain why the code checks if IsSeqInBackroom? It doesnt seems to make sense to me
02:11
the future ack is calculated with % NET_MAX_SEQUENCE
02:15
so the reset of the ack number is already predicted, no? (edited)
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ws-client BOT 2024-02-27 02:57:01Z
<ChillerDragon> oh im so looking forward to reading your ack docs :3
02:57
<ChillerDragon> might fix chat messages being printed twice in my client hehe
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is DD opensource?
02:58
like can any joe contribute to the code?
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ws-client BOT 2024-02-27 02:59:54Z
<ChillerDragon> yes @ratsoup ddnet is open source and very community driven
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cool is there a link to the github i would like to read the docs and maybe contribute
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ws-client BOT 2024-02-27 03:00:51Z
DDraceNetwork, a free cooperative platformer game. Contribute to ddnet/ddnet development by creating an account on GitHub.
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It is opensource, I'm about to graduate from software engineering at my respective university so I will no doubt contribute.
🔥 2
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ws-client
thx
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ws-client BOT 2024-02-27 03:01:18Z
<ChillerDragon> where are two ppl coming from wanting to contribute at the same time? woo
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im new to the game and just want to give back to the community
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Haha well I won't be contributing until atleast 6 months down the line, I'm graduating in May then taking a very extended vacation to travel after suffering for the past 5 years
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ws-client BOT 2024-02-27 03:03:26Z
<ChillerDragon> cool
❤️ 1
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ws-client
<ChillerDragon> oh im so looking forward to reading your ack docs :3
man u will see the snaps doc, I'm rewriting it right now. I just implemented a snap handler on teeframe and its working 100% (edited)
03:10
now I have the power of snaps kek
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Leaders in Industry Support White House Call to Address Root Cause of Many of the Worst Cyber Attacks Read the full report here WASHINGTON – Today, the White House Office of the National Cyber Director (ONCD) released a report calling on the technical community to proactively reduce the attack surface in cyberspace. ONCD makes the…
😂 1
06:35
@Learath2 THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!!!
06:35
🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸
06:40
good morning btw
06:43
Government mandated rust rewrite
06:43
GovRIIR (edited)
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can yall check #bugs
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its 8:41 bro
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its safe
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I guess you could argue a memory bug is a logic bug. But having no memory bugs then means having less logic bugs. But obviously not zero
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MilkeeyCat
what is this black magic.
Fair
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Patiga
trait Trait { fn abs(self) -> Self; } impl Trait for i64 { fn abs(self) -> Self { 2 * self } } fn main() { let x = 42; println!("{}", x.abs()); println!("{}", x.abs()); println!("{}", x.abs()); } New Rust riddle 🎉 with non-suggestive print calls: What will this program output?
that's really weird. I'd usually say all of them print the same. since you say they don't, maybe 84, 42, 42?
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Ryozuki
I guess the type infer cause first x.abs() call search abs method and Trait::abs is found. Once the type of x is inferred to be i64, then it will use core::num::abs.
(edited)
ah, not the reason I thought
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Hi, in my opinion communities are either a very weird and unresolved topic currently or the admins don't really care to some extend. I've been texting with @heinrich5991 and @def- and did not get a clear yes nor no to gain community status. It's kinda sad hosting a server for probably half a decade and actively maintaining it (more or less) and not getting that status even though that's one of the reasons the whole feature got created; So that servers like BW and mine don't have to be list...
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MilkeeyCat
Fair
I'm surprised it doesn't crash in debug mode tho
10:15
Are there no debug checks enabled
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🤷‍♂️
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@fokkonaut bw servers have more than 1 tw server hosted in different places, they share the same rules. teesports has more that only 1 modified ddnetpp server (that i would say joined teesports eventually) like fng servers (refng by k0rae). idk why you don't get the community status though but bw and teesports host more than one server
10:37
than*
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true, BW made a RUS server
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My servers don't even show in master server at all anymore
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are there error messages in the log?
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I wonder if the attacker switched to dosing them with spoofed IP of my server xd
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heinrich5991
are there error messages in the log?
I haven't really looked into it yet. But I checked my iptable rules
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fokkonaut
true, BW made a RUS server
i agree with the "needed requirements" since it's not clear to anyone as of today having a single server in the community filter seem's... weird - maybe support a custom badge and an approved stamp for single server's ? so you can atleast get rid of the KoG tab ._. - but i agree with you fully there, dont get me wrong :P (edited)
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I know that BW and TeeSports have multiple servers, hence I said "de facto 1 server"
10:57
Last time I checked only 1 server of each community was actually active
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oh im sorry i somehow overread the "de facto" - sry
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teesports are quite popular though
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russian fng gets filled 20/32 and players are switching to them instead
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i also agree with this: Other than that: I have no problem hosting multiple servers or different gamemodes, but I'm not sure if doing the same as other communities and spamming the list with useless servers is the way to go, but if that's the only possibility to gain community status I'll do so. forcing you to open new server's that just sit there as placeholder's shouldnt be a way to get a community tag
10:59
(bw opened them for future plans tho) pepelaugh
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meloƞ
i agree with the "needed requirements" since it's not clear to anyone as of today having a single server in the community filter seem's... weird - maybe support a custom badge and an approved stamp for single server's ? so you can atleast get rid of the KoG tab ._. - but i agree with you fully there, dont get me wrong :P (edited)
I can only speculate since I consciously distanced myself from this set of decisions because... well you see. One of the primary reasons the community feature was made was to group large networks so they don't overwhelm the list. So with the lack of any concrete rules, I'd guess it's indeed the fact that having one server in a group is just weird
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add another way to filter |communities|gamemodes|
11:18
block,fng,city,gores,ddrace,zcatch,ctf
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Learath2
I can only speculate since I consciously distanced myself from this set of decisions because... well you see. One of the primary reasons the community feature was made was to group large networks so they don't overwhelm the list. So with the lack of any concrete rules, I'd guess it's indeed the fact that having one server in a group is just weird
Initial thought for this feature was definitely KoG hosting BW and my server
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only problem is someone needs to do the work to sort all that XD
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And the original concept was to make "any" server verifiable to prevent them being copied and spoofed
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Neither were really the point tbf. But I'm not in the mood to argue
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Well, that was the origin
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You can check Ryozuki's initial issue if you are curious what the original request was. It was Ryozukis obsession with kog getting unfair treatment to begin with
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But anyways, it doesn't matter if we can agree and decide on any other way to make this issue resolvable
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Then me and a couple others suggested grouping large networks in another way so independent servers can be visible in the list too
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For now I'm gonna stick with KoG
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Learath2
You can check Ryozuki's initial issue if you are curious what the original request was. It was Ryozukis obsession with kog getting unfair treatment to begin with
😬
11:30
and i won
11:30
well the current situation doesnt give kog preference
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does the client use the system wide libraries or its own? (edited)
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Mixed
13:06
The website mostly uses system libs
13:06
Steam own + steam runtime + system
13:07
Self build: system
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can ayone show a function which gets called when u press spec key pepeW (q by default)
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on server or client side?
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Client
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it's roughly say /pause
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You can use F1 to show what your key is bound to: bind q should tell you which command it executes
15:48
But it is probably what Heinrich said
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ok, what does /pause do ;-;
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MilkeeyCat
ok, what does /pause do ;-;
It calls the CGameContext::ConTogglePause function on the server.
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Oh, that's why i couldn't find anything in client code (edited)
15:59
Pog
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some json files in stats archives broken
17:06
2023-09-17
17:08
maybe stats collector tools was restarted, next json is empty {"servers":[]}
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I can confirm that it looks broken
17:08
the replacement is supposed to happen atomically, if it is not, that's a bug
17:08
it shouldn't be impacted by restarts
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If I see any more broken ones, I’ll let you know
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DDraceNetwork, a free cooperative platformer game. Contribute to ddnet/ddnet development by creating an account on GitHub.
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Matodor
If I see any more broken ones, I’ll let you know
thanks!
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Matodor
maybe stats collector tools was restarted, next json is empty {"servers":[]}
the next couple of jsons are missing
17:17
maybe it was a problem with the disk being full
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Interactive article explaining the physics of an airfoil and what makes airplanes fly
17:54
the best physics blog has a new post!
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Omg, bunch of good visualizations really!
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matricks
Omg, bunch of good visualizations really!
wussup
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Forgejo is a self-hosted lightweight software forge. Easy to install and low maintenance, it just does the job.
19:34
i think ill start using this
19:34
for git.edgarluque.com
19:34
19:34
sad it uses MIT
19:34
AGPL would be so pog
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you can also use it under the AGPL license
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(but others can also use it under the MIT license, so maybe you're complaining about that)
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heinrich5991
you can also use it under the AGPL license
can i do modifications under agpl?
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yes, AFAIK
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heinrich5991
(but others can also use it under the MIT license, so maybe you're complaining about that)
partly this yes
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although the original author will always be able to use it however they like (at least in germany)
19:37
so I guess you can't get that kind of restriction from the author, not even with AGPL
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heinrich5991
although the original author will always be able to use it however they like (at least in germany)
yeah
19:40
well the author is not the objective
19:40
its the free software users
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Ryozuki
partly this yes
bad opinion
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agpl is not dev centric, its user centric
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Jupstar ✪
bad opinion
urs yes
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Jupstar ✪
bad opinion
stallman opinion
19:41
*very radical
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zhn
stallman opinion
pedo opinion
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stallman has nothing to do with this (edited)
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@Jupstar ✪ @Ryozuki please don't call each other's opinions bad
19:42
and especially not pedo
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heinrich5991
@Jupstar ✪ @Ryozuki please don't call each other's opinions bad
i can survive his critique
19:42
he is my brother
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that's okay, do it in DMs then
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Ryozuki
stallman has nothing to do with this (edited)
didn't torvalds refuse to be gnu since stallman radicalized by his own speeches xd
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Jupstar ✪
he is my brother
as long as u use rust
19:42
😬
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zhn
didn't torvalds refuse to be gnu since stallman radicalized by his own speeches xd
eh idk
19:43
people can be rly good and have opinions that dont align and doesnt mean they are correct
19:43
otherwise we would all believe jeff bezos opiniosn are the best
19:43
cuz he is billionare
19:43
but well gpl2 is not a bad license, use agpl if possible
19:44
i wonder if greydon hoare uses rust
19:45
@Jupstar ✪ if i made the most perfomant vulkan driver agpl would u use it
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Ryozuki
@Jupstar ✪ if i made the most perfomant vulkan driver agpl would u use it
ofc
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mm idk if it would require u to do agpl too
19:46
i hope yes but i think not
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probably not
19:47
you're exposing a standard API
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could u make a OS with all under agpl
19:47
or a license that enforces such a free software license ffor all software used?
19:47
and developed
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probably not. wine exists
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@heinrich5991 are u goign to eurorust
19:48
EuroRust is a 2 day conference for the European Rust community – October 10th & 11th, 2024 – in Vienna & online
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haven't planned anything that far yet
19:50
are you going? is something interesting about this conference?
19:51
but core devs go
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Ryozuki
mm idk if it would require u to do agpl too
all non permissive licenses are dev unfriendly all licenses are
19:52
u'd need to make sure to not fuck up
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180€ ticket lol
19:52
@heinrich5991 how much does ccc cost
19:54
apparently 175€ last year (edited)
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hmm i see
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uff, so expensive. more expensive than a football match lol
19:56
and u can watch it for free in the internet
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also more days than a football match :p
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but also more boring xd
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380 euros for https://cppconf.ru
С++ Russia 2024 — конференция для CPP-разработчиков. Несколько десятков технических докладов о современном C++, инструментах, многопоточности и многом другом.
justatest 3
20:04
justatest
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I've seen C++ conferences for 1000€ ^^
20:07
you gotta have a corporate sponsor for that, I think
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corporate ticket rises up to 600 euros kekw
20:10
its quite a lot anyway if you are just an individual
20:10
in sense that the stage used for kinda strange performance
20:11
and also advertising open source projects driven by companies xd
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zhn
380 euros for https://cppconf.ru
just to get free sigsegvs
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Problem

I usually join servers where many players are on, so I have people to play with (and for enough tees to build boats). However, player count is often misleading, for example if half of the server's players is in non-t0 teams.

Possible Solution

Add options to the server browser to filter out:
  • players in teams
  • players that haven't acted in a while (those sleeping ones)
  • dummies
  • dummy players (they only want to play with their dummy anyways)
  • players that haven...
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Going to kubecon
20:22
There's some rust-related topics
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ReiTW
Going to kubecon
why are you going? 🙂
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heinrich5991
why are you going? 🙂
I'm currently learning k8s since some time + there's some goals that we want to achieve at work, some topics that will be discussed at the kubecon will help us for that
20:27
And also cuz there's the Cilium + eBPF day
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ah 🙂
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ReiTW
And also cuz there's the Cilium + eBPF day
oy vey
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PRESS ENTER
20:49
my brain isnt made for this
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@Scrumplex 🥺🥺🥺 Access to image at 'https://skins.scrumplex.net/skin/glowfox.png' from origin 'null' has been blocked by CORS policy: No 'Access-Control-Allow-Origin' header is present on the requested resource.
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I've been thinking about some sort of backend infrastructure that connects all of ddnet together but I'm having a bit of a hard time settling on a design. My initial design:
  • Network Entities are members of the network that provide or request Services
  • Services are either streaming or non-streaming. Streaming services are provided on a pubsub scheme, they are things like logs, bans, game-state, hardware-state. Non-streaming services are like RPC calls, things like rcon commands
  • Brokers provide a gateway into the network, entities register their services on brokers, brokers connected to eachother route streams and requests through the network
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why is the origin 'null'? ^^
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Matodor
@Scrumplex 🥺🥺🥺 Access to image at 'https://skins.scrumplex.net/skin/glowfox.png' from origin 'null' has been blocked by CORS policy: No 'Access-Control-Allow-Origin' header is present on the requested resource.
oh
20:50
Lemme allow any origin then
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Now after looking at this structure for an hour or so, I've noticed that maybe there is something that already implements this as this sounds so much like the internet itself to begin with
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the pubsub stuff should keep state
20:52
otherwise you'll get out of sync if you miss a ban
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heinrich5991
why is the origin 'null'? ^^
image.src = skin url on local index.html
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heinrich5991
otherwise you'll get out of sync if you miss a ban
It provides a separate non-streaming endpoint that you can use to synchronize yourself, and every update comes with the new bulk hash
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Matodor
image.src = skin url on local index.html
ah, local
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Learath2
It provides a separate non-streaming endpoint that you can use to synchronize yourself, and every update comes with the new bulk hash
works, but why isn't it part of the protocol?
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heinrich5991
works, but why isn't it part of the protocol?
The messaging solution I was considering does not have builtin support for this. (0mq)
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I see
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Matodor
@Scrumplex 🥺🥺🥺 Access to image at 'https://skins.scrumplex.net/skin/glowfox.png' from origin 'null' has been blocked by CORS policy: No 'Access-Control-Allow-Origin' header is present on the requested resource.
try again ^^
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Scrumplex
try again ^^
poggers2heartw
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But there are lots of problems ranging from mild to difficult with this kind of setup:
  • Something like DHCP is needed to give addresses to entities
  • Something like DNS is needed to sanely address network entities
  • Something like BGP or atleast some static routing tables are needed so brokers can route stuff around
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why can't we simply™ connect to the local server at a given port
21:01
and the local server simply™ connects to a hardcoded masterserver
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heinrich5991
why can't we simply™ connect to the local server at a given port
If we keep the flow of data unidirectional that works
21:02
Actually maybe I can make it work like that, I just need to split the generic broker concept and have a "Central Broker" and "Local Broker"
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even bidirectionally, it could work, no?
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It works only if we enforce the hub and spoke hierarchy
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spoke?
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point-to-point looks brittle for our servers
21:08
hard enough to ensure connectivity to the main server
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heinrich5991
hard enough to ensure connectivity to the main server
There would be some benefit to having multiple routes to the main server, like the chinese servers regularly lose connection to the main server but they are usually reachable through the one server we have outside mainland china
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ah
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Anyway, I'll just have to think much much more on this, I want something simple, yet powerful 😄
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maybe we can do a voice call at some point, if you'd like
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Might be a nice idea actually, after I get my thoughts a little more concrete we should talk them over
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Learath2
There would be some benefit to having multiple routes to the main server, like the chinese servers regularly lose connection to the main server but they are usually reachable through the one server we have outside mainland china
Like peering or something?
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Yek-H
Like peering or something?
Well peering is two autonomous systems exchanging traffic. My initial thinking was something similar to that indeed
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Learath2
I've been thinking about some sort of backend infrastructure that connects all of ddnet together but I'm having a bit of a hard time settling on a design. My initial design:
  • Network Entities are members of the network that provide or request Services
  • Services are either streaming or non-streaming. Streaming services are provided on a pubsub scheme, they are things like logs, bans, game-state, hardware-state. Non-streaming services are like RPC calls, things like rcon commands
  • Brokers provide a gateway into the network, entities register their services on brokers, brokers connected to eachother route streams and requests through the network
this sounds like u want elixir/otp
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I imagined brokers as routers, but instead of packets they route very high level stuff. To solve what the next hop should be you need some sort of routing algorithm
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Ryozuki
this sounds like u want elixir/otp
I'll check it out
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Phoenix is a web framework for the Elixir programming language that gives you peace of mind from development to production
21:16
i only heard good word of this
21:16
my company uses elixir for any distributed stuff that isnt cpu bound
21:16
elixir/erlang/otp
21:16
for cpu we use rust
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@Ryozuki what part does elixir/erlang/otp implement?
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Learath2
@Ryozuki what part does elixir/erlang/otp implement?
elixir and erlang are kinda compatible since they both use the BEAM
21:17
otp is like a std library available in the BEAM for concurrency
21:17
whatsapp uses this
21:17
OTP stands for Open Telecom Platform. It is based on Erlang and contains a huge set of libraries from BEAM that follow system design principles. In the core of OTP, we have processes which make Elixir very efficient. Let’s have a look at the processes.
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But what parts of my issue do you think it solves?
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hm like having lot of services
21:18
idk
21:18
xd
21:18
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Hm, but what is it's advantage over, say Rust or C++?
21:19
I can send packets with Rust, I can receive them with Rust. There is reliable transport, there is unreliable transport.
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there is server crashes, there is internet issues, etc
21:20
otp deals with that
21:20
elixir and erlang both are based around an actor system
21:20
they make it incredibly easy
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Does erlang e.g. have a concept of processes being remote?
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async rust isnt easy
21:20
@Learath2 yes
21:20
the erlang beam machine can work across servers
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But in what way? As in cooperative processing? Or can I say message servers across it?
21:21
A distributed Erlang system consists of a number of Erlang runtime systems communicating with each other. Each such runtime system is called a node. Message passing between processes at different nodes, as well as links and monitors, are transparent when pids are used. Registered names, however, are local to each node. This means that the node must be specified as well when sending messages, and so on, using registered names. The distribution mechanism is implemented using TCP/IP sockets. How to implement an alternative carrier is described in the ERTS User's Guide.
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have you used elixir? if not, it might be a bit hard for to help Learath2 who hasn't used it yet
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i havent used it much
21:22
but its on my priority list
21:22
its rly interesting
21:22
and its industry proven
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that doesn't mean we can gauge what it's useful for
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true xD
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It does look like it has some semblance to being useful to what I'm thinking about
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i just wanted to mention the first thing i thought when reading his comment was elixir and otp
21:23
btw
21:23
there is a rusty language that works on BEAM
21:23
The Gleam programming language
21:24
and thanks to BEAM u have access to OTP too https://github.com/gleam-lang/otp
📫 Fault tolerant multicore programs with actors. Contribute to gleam-lang/otp development by creating an account on GitHub.
21:24
@Learath2 a big pro of BEAM is its fault tolerant
21:24
its meant to even survive server crashes
21:24
provided u have more than 1 ofc
21:25
Reliable Software doesn’t crash : Hardware has errors The network can be unreliable Programmers make mistakes! The software has bugs( in very rare cases software has bugs as well ) Perceptions vs Reality Instead of denying reality, we Acknowledge that software has bugs, the system may fail Instead of having uncontrolled failures, Erlang turns failures, exceptions and crashes into tools that we can use and control.
21:25
Process in Erlang : The basic building block in Erlang is the process. A process is fully isolated and shares nothing i.e you can’t access to its memory location directly( Actor Model ) If a process dies, it won’t propagate the failure to other processes. An Erlang process is very lightweight and we can spawn 1000 ‘s of them easily. Messages: Message passing is the only way how processes can communicate with each other As I already mentioned, message passing in Erlang is a non-blocking operation. This means communication is always asynchronous .you send a message and go back to your normal activity. When needed, you can check if you got a reply back in your mailbox. If you send a message and then die, the receiver will still get your message
21:25
rly interesting language
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This is quite intriguing, it seems it truly is "distributed", I wonder how they handle synchronization of shared memory and stuff
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Learath2
This is quite intriguing, it seems it truly is "distributed", I wonder how they handle synchronization of shared memory and stuff
it also provides lot of observavility
21:27
i.e u can see all the processes and their memory
21:27
i saw a gui my company had and was smth else
21:28
21:28
this one is a cli tool xd
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What does "total memory" even mean in the context of a distributed "machine" 😄
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Assert on failures in all thread_* and sphore_* functions on all operating systems instead of only printing log messages on Unix, as these functions are only expected to fail when used with incorrect arguments or in some cases when a dead-lock is detected. On macOS, sphore_wait was not correctly calling sem_wait in a loop to repeat the wait operation if it is interrupted by a signal. On Windows, the AIO tests were failing with the additional assertions. The maximum count that se...
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Learath2
I've been thinking about some sort of backend infrastructure that connects all of ddnet together but I'm having a bit of a hard time settling on a design. My initial design:
  • Network Entities are members of the network that provide or request Services
  • Services are either streaming or non-streaming. Streaming services are provided on a pubsub scheme, they are things like logs, bans, game-state, hardware-state. Non-streaming services are like RPC calls, things like rcon commands
  • Brokers provide a gateway into the network, entities register their services on brokers, brokers connected to eachother route streams and requests through the network
It seems something like Apache Qpid implements something very close to this
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I saw how 4er team doing part with tp and it was uncomfortable to watch cus camera just shaken.
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Read the full report here Read the fact sheet here Today, the Office of the National Cyber Director released a new Technical Report titled “Back to the Building Blocks: A Path Toward Secure and Measurable Software.” This report builds upon the President’s National Cybersecurity Strategy, addressing the technical community to tackle undiscovered ...
22:30
greenthing
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GitHub
Click to see attachment 🖼️
@heinrich5991 trikiman's link opens the channel just fine, while your's gives me this: or did i understand your msg wrong? ^^ (edited)
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meloƞ
@heinrich5991 trikiman's link opens the channel just fine, while your's gives me this: or did i understand your msg wrong? ^^ (edited)
you can post it into any discord channel and you'll see the video
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oh i see - thanks for the clarification.
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i just uploaded it to gh
Exported 305 message(s)