DDraceNetwork - developer

<ChillerDragon> opengfw is still trending hard on github i get it recommended on all my accounts

<ChillerDragon> it takes 50 seconds to run shellcheck on the bash script that launches my ddnet server justatest

04:40

<ChillerDragon> bloat? no

#!/bin/bash

nohup ./DDNet-Server &

<ChillerDragon> started out as this and then somehow got out of control over the years

04:48

<ChillerDragon> yo btw heinrich ill stop sending you matrix bug reports but i got another 2 bugs right now in the 10 seconds i used matrix to send a code snippet xxxxxD

@heinrich5991 how to community

07:32

would be cool if you would explain instead of ignoring

fokkonaut

@heinrich5991 how to community

you want community logo for 1 blmapchill server xD ?

of course

it's a community, which needs to be verified :)

fokkonaut

would be cool if you would explain instead of ignoring

Step one. Go open source

2

Not required currently.

Currently there is no community accepted that wasn't previously too

That's news to me, Avo told me to apply for community so that my server can get out of KoG tab and that currently there is no open source enforcement. I hope it's not double standards again

Currently it's just as it was before the update. Nothing else

fokkonaut

That's news to me, Avo told me to apply for community so that my server can get out of KoG tab and that currently there is no open source enforcement. I hope it's not double standards again

again?

07:43

heinrich started discussion about communities on gh

fokkonaut

That's news to me, Avo told me to apply for community so that my server can get out of KoG tab and that currently there is no open source enforcement. I hope it's not double standards again

Also why should ddnet suddenly start advertising ur closed source mod on a clean config

07:44

There are exactly 0 double standards

07:44

Kog will need to go open source too

Jupstar ✪

Step one. Go open source

big mistake, example - I developed a big interesting mod, with its own rules, for example, no swearing and insults, online on the server is small, you force the mod to be open source - some schoolboy starts a server, allows you to insult each other there (like on block servers), adds other garbage because of which the online on his server flies into the skies, and the original mod dies

2

Matodor

big mistake, example - I developed a big interesting mod, with its own rules, for example, no swearing and insults, online on the server is small, you force the mod to be open source - some schoolboy starts a server, allows you to insult each other there (like on block servers), adds other garbage because of which the online on his server flies into the skies, and the original mod dies

Good but it's not ddnets task to advertise your awesome mod

original xpanic didnt go open-source - only kurosios copy is alive

07:46

alive in terms we have the code of his code only

Matodor

big mistake, example - I developed a big interesting mod, with its own rules, for example, no swearing and insults, online on the server is small, you force the mod to be open source - some schoolboy starts a server, allows you to insult each other there (like on block servers), adds other garbage because of which the online on his server flies into the skies, and the original mod dies

Also if the mod is closed source and the maintainers are as holes it's nothing better. So your argument is a double sided sword

07:48

If your mod is as good as you think, then the advertisement you get will probably overweight the fact that others can copy it in future

good norming

2

07:48

morning

Do you think a second gores mod would instantly be a hit?

why did ddnet not do gores

Ewan

why did ddnet not do gores

I dunno xd

it's stupid kog shouldn't really exist

07:49

it's just ddnet

Jupstar ✪

Also why should ddnet suddenly start advertising ur closed source mod on a clean config

It's about protecting players and letting them know which server is real. That's the entire reason why KoG added bw and my server to their list, because we had to fight against fake servers. If it was not possible for us to join communities, then it would not have to be done in the first place.

2

fokkonaut

It's about protecting players and letting them know which server is real. That's the entire reason why KoG added bw and my server to their list, because we had to fight against fake servers. If it was not possible for us to join communities, then it would not have to be done in the first place.

You can join communities

@Ryozuki do you manually remove files from /boot after installing a new version of kernel? owo

BW aswell as I will probably not go open source just for that

fokkonaut

It's about protecting players and letting them know which server is real. That's the entire reason why KoG added bw and my server to their list, because we had to fight against fake servers. If it was not possible for us to join communities, then it would not have to be done in the first place.

Why do you fear so much that your server will be replaced?

Why do you project so much?

You are visible on first install

Or interpret

@fokkonaut just run 10x ddnet servers, get a community logo and after some weeks run blmap chilll server, profit

1

You probably get most new payers bcs u have 128p support

You don't seem to get it. By fake servers I mean proxy servers who tried to collect IPs of our players, in order to use them for attacks against us

fokkonaut

You don't seem to get it. By fake servers I mean proxy servers who tried to collect IPs of our players, in order to use them for attacks against us

But of you are in communities ur server will have a logo

07:52

So better now then never

fokkonaut

You don't seem to get it. By fake servers I mean proxy servers who tried to collect IPs of our players, in order to use them for attacks against us

How does that work can someone just copy (wrong term but I think you get it) and paste IPs?

Please stop trying to make me publish my mod, ty

and where are the requirements for communities?

Then stop converting ddnet to advertise your mod

Matodor

and where are the requirements for communities?

for example, how many servers should be the minimum, etc.

Jupstar ✪

Then stop converting ddnet to advertise your mod

Do you have some kind of bad mood today? Maybe take a rest for now

Matodor

and where are the requirements for communities?

There are ofc open questions. But to rephrase it. The communities that will be active on first install, will probably need to be oss. We can still think about communities that are not pre selected

07:54

But they will be less visible

Jupstar ✪

There are ofc open questions. But to rephrase it. The communities that will be active on first install, will probably need to be oss. We can still think about communities that are not pre selected

what is oss?

Open source

07:55

(Software)

fokkonaut

Do you have some kind of bad mood today? Maybe take a rest for now

He's filling for Ryozuki since he's on vacation

Jupstar ✪

But they will be less visible

That doesn't make any sense, as then it's better to not have any community at all, cuz then the server is visible at leats. Lol.

i have one open source server online, have discord server, can i get community tab now? brownbear

Haha ^^

07:55

Exactly my humor

fokkonaut

That doesn't make any sense, as then it's better to not have any community at all, cuz then the server is visible at leats. Lol.

That your server got this attention at all was a mistake, that's right

fokkonaut

Exactly my humor

I'm not kidding justatest

I think though Jupstar's point is that real != safe.

@Jupstar ✪ envious?

07:57

Btw, following your points we have to remove mods as blockZ from DDNet now (closed src)

Jupstar ✪

There are ofc open questions. But to rephrase it. The communities that will be active on first install, will probably need to be oss. We can still think about communities that are not pre selected

Another question, if the author of the mod (source code) has not created his own community, then by forking the mod I create my own, what happens in this case?

fokkonaut

@Jupstar ✪ envious?

Accept that this game is advertised on steam as oss. And that the game only lives thanks to many contributors that voluntarily help it. Why should it now make a turn around just because of you being mad af

Lol. It's funny how much you interpret xD

Matodor

Another question, if the author of the mod (source code) has not created his own community, then by forking the mod I create my own, what happens in this case?

I don't understand this The author of the source code did is not the author of the mod idea?

07:59

This already happened for e.g Fng

Jupstar ✪

This already happened for e.g Fng

and how will it be, one FNG community?

You're totally going nuts @Jupstar ✪

Matodor

and how will it be, one FNG community?

It isn't right now. But most players will probably play noby fng

Jupstar ✪

I don't understand this The author of the source code did is not the author of the mod idea?

for example, imagine ddnet community not created, i fork ddnet mod, run servers and want get a community tab

Jupstar ✪

It isn't right now. But most players will probably play noby fng

you didn't answer, it will be one community or NOBY FNG Communuty, Alive FNG Community and more...

Matodor

for example, imagine ddnet community not created, i fork ddnet mod, run servers and want get a community tab

Well that's an open question. I guess at first step we can make existing communities get a higher priority to join

Matodor

you didn't answer, it will be one community or NOBY FNG Communuty, Alive FNG Community and more...

He's not in the mood to answer correctly today

What is generally meant by community, a game mode or a community of players united, for example, by a discord server?

"correctly"? If we knew what was correct we wouldn't be having this conversation tbh

fokkonaut

He's not in the mood to answer correctly today

It doesn't help that you try to trashtalk me. It's obvious from the start that you are the mad one

08:05

We have an open issue where we discuss the requirements

Projection big time.

08:05

Have a good day my dear

08:05

xD

Thanks you too bae

<3

Matodor

What is generally meant by community, a game mode or a community of players united, for example, by a discord server?

Matodor

big mistake, example - I developed a big interesting mod, with its own rules, for example, no swearing and insults, online on the server is small, you force the mod to be open source - some schoolboy starts a server, allows you to insult each other there (like on block servers), adds other garbage because of which the online on his server flies into the skies, and the original mod dies

btw did you see any copy of mrpg/mmotee/infclass with schoolboy as host/developer

08:08

have you seen*

zhn

btw did you see any copy of mrpg/mmotee/infclass with schoolboy as host/developer

I have already met with someone who stole my ideas and implemented them on the block server)

Matodor

I have already met with someone who stole my ideas and implemented them on the block server)

who is it lol

Matodor

I have already met with someone who stole my ideas and implemented them on the block server)

but yes, this is different, these are not running sources

Jupstar projecting his madness onto others today:

- maintainers are as holes - stop converting ddnet to advertise your mod - That your server got this attention at all was a mistake, that's right - just because of you being mad af - It doesn't help that you try to trashtalk me. It's obvious from the start that you are the mad one

Can you please stop to quote out of context

08:10

This is pure evil

Just showing that you're the one trashtalking xD Anyways, keep projecting.

zhn

who is it lol

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kBxlKhJ397o

Towik

TEEWORLDS | CASINO IN COPY LOVE BOX #shorts #ddnet #teeworlds

it's simply that this is a lie

Jupstar ✪

Also if the mod is closed source and the maintainers are as holes it's nothing better. So your argument is a double sided sword

"Also if the mod is closed source and the maintainers are as holes it's nothing better. So your argument is a double sided sword"

Get better arguments than "This is pure evil" or "It's simply that this is a lie" xD

dude can you read

We can discuss this properly, if you want

you completely quoted out of context

08:14

just accept that you are 100% evil in this case

Ok, I think you're not able to dicuss properly currently. Tell me when you're in a better state of mind, I'm here

if there are still so many questions about communities, then why are they already in production?)

1

that wasn't my decision

advertisement of ddnet and kog poggers2

#7699

https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/7699

Forcing mods to be open-source to be included as a community · Issu...

What would you think about fostering the open-source spirit of DDNet/Teeworlds and requiring all future communities that are included to be open-source? The KoG case is special IMO and should be gr...

1

if it makes you happy, i personally would accept communities that are closed source, BUT not allow them to be filtered on clean config by default

08:19

filtered in*

I think a checkbox for verified servers would be enough with the application form plus an API for the master server, so that verified servers can specify links that would be displayed somewhere in the client

08:24

today communities filtered by name, everyone adds their prefix to the server name (edited)

aaaeee

I Love that jupi and foko are beeing a little AFmerumad

at each other and U have matodor basically chatting with himself gigachad

3

2

️

09:19

<ChillerDragon> @meloƞ lmao true

Matodor

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kBxlKhJ397o

city mod has casino too, hasnt it?

zhn

city mod has casino too, hasnt it?

yes, I showed it to some people, but they didn’t just take the idea, they even took the 1 in 1 map

<ChillerDragon> ye mats C# mod is really cool! owo

zhn

btw did you see any copy of mrpg/mmotee/infclass with schoolboy as host/developer

I seen a few infclass servers, pretending to be better because they have ~~ruined balancing~~ increased damage and limits. Stronger = better, you know. Add a huge gun and you're a 'next generation'. Have the server located in a different country and you'll get players "by default" because the smaller ping is attractive, especially for newcomers.

<ChillerDragon> but it sucks that you can not use rude words and its closed source

10:04

<ChillerDragon> i would fork and make it a toxic server axaxax @Matodor

who even is schoolboy

Jupstar ✪

Good but it's not ddnets task to advertise your awesome mod

It seems to be DDNet (client) responsibility to give equal (at least comparable) discoverability and convenient access for all servers.

fokkonaut

BW aswell as I will probably not go open source just for that

I'm going to quote a big guy:

Give even more power to people who DDoS servers and steal mods/players Make putting in the work to create and maintain a good mod even less rewarding

<ChillerDragon> who u quote?

zhn

original xpanic didnt go open-source - only kurosios copy is alive

no closed source only gpl, make ddnet gpl

<ChillerDragon> gpl vs MIT is the new tabs vs spaces or what

good morning its 7:11

1

<ChillerDragon> @Ryozuki make ur github status "I use gpl BTW"

why do i wake up so early

<ChillerDragon> good evening its 18:12

asian chiller

why chiller relocate?

aksually its 12:12

<ChillerDragon> better ping on singapore servers

10:12

<ChillerDragon> for ddnet gaming

Kaffeine

It seems to be DDNet (client) responsibility to give equal (at least comparable) discoverability and convenient access for all servers.

No. Ddnet has an interest to make ddnet servers be the most visible. Communities is already a way to make other mods more equal. In this step it additionally makes sure these communities have similar values. From ui perspective I've nothing against making mods generally more visible. But it should be clear that these mods are not part of ddnets ecosystem

so to add that: it's not unlikely that ddnet will even enforce certain rules (e.g. "be nice") for these servers

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/750301928499707935/1198647918803026060/image.png?ex=65bfaadd&is=65ad35dd&hm=e23f3789705067d4143a756e80d2a37415ed3c8179a8a41e7d6f64b43eec758e& how to fix?

Тимофей

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/750301928499707935/1198647918803026060/image.png?ex=65bfaadd&is=65ad35dd&hm=e23f3789705067d4143a756e80d2a37415ed3c8179a8a41e7d6f64b43eec758e& how to fix?

don't use beta for now

10:22

@Learath2 any plans to fix above error? been broken for quite some time now

10:23

how did you get that skin then?

chiller that can’t really be why you moved

np

<ChillerDragon> @Ewan no singapore servers are boring af and my internet here is ass anyways xd

so why you move

<ChillerDragon> only place i would move to for ping is russia so i can play Copy Love Box

10:25

<ChillerDragon> @Ewan secret

@Kaffeine i can understand that you want your player base being kept together. But I want to make very clear that my point is really about what the player sees first, when starting the ddnet client. If there are only servers that are closed source, and in worst case the player base is very toxic. Then: 1. ddnet will get the bad review 2. ddnet, advertised as OSS, seems the opposite 3. ddnet can almost not control that anymore, because the player base will be mad at this point maybe a new game is better that is not called ddnet

chiller is wanted by the government

<ChillerDragon> justatest

Ewan

chiller is wanted by the government

0.7 propaganda?

perhaps

<ChillerDragon> ye i spread the word of 0.7 in local asian communities

1

Jupstar ✪

No. Ddnet has an interest to make ddnet servers be the most visible. Communities is already a way to make other mods more equal. In this step it additionally makes sure these communities have similar values. From ui perspective I've nothing against making mods generally more visible. But it should be clear that these mods are not part of ddnets ecosystem

Communities is already a way to make other mods more equal.

As I see, the communities idea (the new servers browser) in its current state only hurts the UX and reduces "other mods" discoverability.

In this step it additionally makes sure these communities have similar values.

There are many servers which do not care. On the first step you reduce the visibility for everyone except DDNet, on the second step you add requirements to get an half of that visibility back, pretending that you're improving something. Decide what you want: if you want better UX for the players then try asking players. If you want more contributions to DDNet then ask for that.

<ChillerDragon> woah replies in irc

10:28

<ChillerDragon> i can see replies!

Kaffeine

Communities is already a way to make other mods more equal.

As I see, the communities idea (the new servers browser) in its current state only hurts the UX and reduces "other mods" discoverability.

In this step it additionally makes sure these communities have similar values.

There are many servers which do not care. On the first step you reduce the visibility for everyone except DDNet, on the second step you add requirements to get an half of that visibility back, pretending that you're improving something. Decide what you want: if you want better UX for the players then try asking players. If you want more contributions to DDNet then ask for that.

the UX is not even part of this discussion in my opinion. i never said i like the UI at all

Jupstar ✪

@Kaffeine i can understand that you want your player base being kept together. But I want to make very clear that my point is really about what the player sees first, when starting the ddnet client. If there are only servers that are closed source, and in worst case the player base is very toxic. Then: 1. ddnet will get the bad review 2. ddnet, advertised as OSS, seems the opposite 3. ddnet can almost not control that anymore, because the player base will be mad at this point maybe a new game is better that is not called ddnet

I see your point. You care about DDNet reputation. How the request to be "open source" matches that idea?

10:31

For me UI is just destroying and making a nonsense all this approach of "hey everyone! do you wanna be one of our communities? then publish your code and we'll give you an half of what you had a few months ago". (edited)

Kaffeine

I see your point. You care about DDNet reputation. How the request to be "open source" matches that idea?

i don't understand how it does not match? this is how ddnet was build. I can also rephrase it: ddnet's values rn are, being transparent (donations), being open source, being "nice" <- not being too toxic.. ofc this is a hard to moderate topic so the player that starts ddnet, should see these values reflected

Jupstar ✪

@Learath2 any plans to fix above error? been broken for quite some time now

The one introduced by curl was fixed by Robyt before I ever got home

Learath2

The one introduced by curl was fixed by Robyt before I ever got home

oh ok, sry then

Kaffeine

For me UI is just destroying and making a nonsense all this approach of "hey everyone! do you wanna be one of our communities? then publish your code and we'll give you an half of what you had a few months ago". (edited)

well if you ask me, i'd also be ok if communities would be completely moved to a new tab and internet will be as before. again, for me this is not a about UI design

You want to have a non-toxic servers visible by default. Yet you say you don't see a sense in applying the "be nice" policy to those servers; you want to have them open sourcing the code instead. Does it make any sense?

i just want to make clear, that if comminities will, however it will look like, be shown as the first, default look into the client. Then these communities should share ddnet's value up to a certain amount

Kaffeine

You want to have a non-toxic servers visible by default. Yet you say you don't see a sense in applying the "be nice" policy to those servers; you want to have them open sourcing the code instead. Does it make any sense?

as said, i can imagine that the "be nice" rules will apply too additionally

<ChillerDragon> banning toxic servers is fucked

1

The day that first issue was made I knew there was no way we could make anyone happy with that

right now we dont even have guidelines, so i cannot foresee how it will look like

ws-client

<ChillerDragon> banning toxic servers is fucked

it's not at all about banning

10:35

this is already completely wrong. i give a shit about if u go closed source, or take 10000000 euros to play your game

Open source and players being toxic are two different things. Open source wont solve this problem

1

2

<ChillerDragon> agreed

10:36

<ChillerDragon> also being toxic is not a problem

1

Toxic is a problem

<ChillerDragon> i see ddnet rules more as a problem

There are kids playing this game

Avolicious

Open source and players being toxic are two different things. Open source wont solve this problem

how does that argument help. i said that I, personally, see both as a requirement sooner or later

<ChillerDragon> if their parents dont want kids in the toxic internet they should install OpenGFW on their router

1

bcs there 100% will be bad servers, and this will influence ddnet's decision making

Chiller is a freespeech absolutist. Best ignore his opinions on that specific matter

1

<ChillerDragon> :c

10:37

<ChillerDragon> :c

The right to say racist slurs and cyber bully kids shall not be breached by the ddtyrants

<ChillerDragon> +1

10:38

<ChillerDragon> also i like using "kys" as smalltalk o.O

See, delulu, best not pay too much attention

Jupstar ✪

bcs there 100% will be bad servers, and this will influence ddnet's decision making

I doubt that closed source servers will influence ddnets decision

<ChillerDragon> whats delulu xd

10:39

<ChillerDragon> > Delulu is an internet slang used to describe the belief that one can influence one's own destiny through sheer willpower. Derived from the English language word "delusional", the term has its origins in K-pop communities where the term delulu is used to refer to individuals who were in a parasocial relationship with celebrities and had hopes of meeting them someday. The term has subsequently been adopted by Generation Z and

10:39

Generation Alpha, popularized by viral Tiktok trends such as the catchphrase, "delulu is the solulu", which implies that self-confidence is the solution. Wikipedia

Avolicious

I doubt that closed source servers will influence ddnets decision

but as said. it's about making 100% clear that these servers are not part of ddnet's ecosystem

<ChillerDragon> lerato flexing english agaun

Jupstar ✪

but as said. it's about making 100% clear that these servers are not part of ddnet's ecosystem

Which is in the new UI visible

10:39

You can see DDNets logo infront of the server

<ChillerDragon> i love how "tiktok" is mentioned on wikipedia pages explaining words xd

Avolicious

I doubt that closed source servers will influence ddnets decision

if u install a minecraft mod and join a custom minecraft server, and ppl there are mad and the mod sucks Then it's unlikely u blame mojang for it

<ChillerDragon> no we blame microsoft for that

1

Avolicious

You can see DDNets logo infront of the server

only as long as ddnet servers are the top ones

Jupstar ✪

only as long as ddnet servers are the top ones

I dont get why people shouldnt enjoy other gamemodes aswell, this will kill the entire ecosystem

1

<ChillerDragon> i wrote magnus an email when my kog account didnt work

10:40

<ChillerDragon> you didnt?

10:41

<ChillerDragon> ok sorri i close irc now enuff trolling

Avolicious

I dont get why people shouldnt enjoy other gamemodes aswell, this will kill the entire ecosystem

this is just so wrong, where did i ever say that?

10:41

you are 100% ignoring my arguments

Jupstar ✪

this is just so wrong, where did i ever say that?

It implies it. Its in peoples nature to join full servers and I do have proof for this thesis

Fwiw, I did want to keep the ddnet tab just to make it obvious which servers we provide support for

i don't deny that, and if we add a tab "toxic servers not related to ddnet, be careful" then idc if we list all toxic servers there.

Jupstar ✪

i don't deny that, and if we add a tab "toxic servers not related to ddnet, be careful" then idc if we list all toxic servers there.

Wow... so you are telling us that we dont care about our servers? and we are toxic?

10:43

ggs

Avolicious

Wow... so you are telling us that we dont care about our servers? and we are toxic?

i can only repeat myself. MY point, which might be different to other ddnet maintainer's point, is really about the first experience in the game

10:43

kog is not toxic

Jupstar ✪

i can only repeat myself. MY point, which might be different to other ddnet maintainer's point, is really about the first experience in the game

But we do care about the experience too

2

10:44

So do block servers

you try to make me say smth i NEVER said

and other communities

@Jupstar ✪ I don't care about communities or advertises. I see DDNet as the main client for Teeworlds, and thus I want it to have a reasonable UI, allowing it to be the universal client. You want DDNet servers be separated from the "unofficial" servers, and you want only "nice" servers be visible by default. That's fine, let's add a "18+" checkbox, and make all servers exposing their "be nice" status to the master server. It would be a practical solution for the actual problem of "players randomly joining toxic servers".

and if we add a tab "toxic servers not related to ddnet, be careful" then idc if we list all toxic servers there.

Avolicious

But we do care about the experience too

but apparently not about being an OPEN, TRANSPARENT community

I'm guessing "might be toxic" is the issue there

what's so hard to understand about this?

Jupstar ✪

but apparently not about being an OPEN, TRANSPARENT community

we are open and transparent, even about the funding

10:44

lol

10:45

we are just not OPEN SOURCE

good then you agree with my argument

please different between how we handle communities and how we handle source code

1

10:45

this are two different things

1

that's your opinion

It's kinda fact though. What does the visibility of the source code have to do with community management?

1

i am also part of the community.. the developer part.. How is your kog community open about that?

Jupstar ✪

i am also part of the community.. the developer part.. How is your kog community open about that?

Depends on what you wanna do, we are searching for devs

Learath2

It's kinda fact though. What does the visibility of the source code have to do with community management?

i think you downplay the word community at this point

We posted some news about that

Jupstar ✪

i think you downplay the word community at this point

There is no developer community for kog though. They just indirectly leech off of ours

<ChillerDragon> kog sucks at open communication too btw. Its only discord -.-

Learath2

There is no developer community for kog though. They just indirectly leech off of ours

Well, this is your fault xD You wanted us to streamline it for the features

I mean it's completely fine under the current license. So I don't really have an issue with it anyway

10:49

I would like to see everyone open source their mods, but I also know humans are not built like that.

3

Avolicious

Toxic is a problem

f3

at this point i'm rather for reverting communities than keeping them. Apparently that was less of a problem KoG tab can be renamed to Community and all problems solved

should servers with toxic shit in them even be in community tab

we try to make universal rules for community guide lines so mods that weren't in KoG tab have a chance, but instead even those are argumentining against it

10:51

i defenitely don't want new players to not see ddnet servers as official

(looking at fokkonaut with all the slurs)

Jupstar ✪

i defenitely don't want new players to not see ddnet servers as official

But you see DDNets logo next to the server? Whats the problem about it?

Avolicious

But you see DDNets logo next to the server? Whats the problem about it?

i gave you the arguments, you don't want to hear them. whats the point?

You want a generic client & support even backwards comp.

Avolicious

But you see DDNets logo next to the server? Whats the problem about it?

Doesn't stand out that much anymore now that everyone has a logo

Learath2

I would like to see everyone open source their mods, but I also know humans are not built like that.

I would like to see everyone working on ddnet base game and making their mod as plugins for that. I also 'd love to see the idea of DDoS attacks forgotten, and all servers be nice. But you're absolutely right, "humans are not built like that."

Learath2

Doesn't stand out that much anymore now that everyone has a logo

Well not everyone but you get the gist of it.

i am 100% for permissive licenses or no licenses i give a shit about how ppl want to design their community, fundings etc. i am 100% for more discoverbility, even to a extend where we have KoG tab back i am 100% against destroying ddnet's values for new players already

Jupstar ✪

i am 100% for permissive licenses or no licenses i give a shit about how ppl want to design their community, fundings etc. i am 100% for more discoverbility, even to a extend where we have KoG tab back i am 100% against destroying ddnet's values for new players already

The discoverbility could be solved if we group servers. DDNet is hosting 664/1044 servers. KoG 91 (edited)

10:57

So if we add proper grouping, you would have more discoverbility, because the server list doesnt gets flooded as of now

Grouping is what I wanted from communities, this current UX is far from optimal

(kaffeine is hosting 1 server with 8-16 players daily, yet complaining so loudly, like if the infclass community had 816 players instead) (edited)

ok but when buff medic

1

Jupstar ✪

you try to make me say smth i NEVER said

Everybody is against you today!!1!1!

fokkonaut

Everybody is against you today!!1!1!

Without teeworlds being open source you couldn't even be against me today

11:11

So maybe value it a bit

11:11

And the work ppl put into the client ppl use to join your server

cyberFighter

(looking at fokkonaut with all the slurs)

I do not support slurs and actively ban people for that when it goes too far. I also ban people for doxxing, threatening, and so on. A little bit of toxicity is amongst every teeworlds server, even DDNet. But when things go too far, I definitely do something about it specifically for younger players.

idc about toxic or not here

11:12

being open source should be a requirement to be listed as a community

11:12

simply because it should be open source

11:12

there is no need for any other reason

11:12

also i dislike open source word, i prefer free software

Jupstar ✪

So maybe value it a bit

Lol, you're so damn weird today xD

11:13

Really, get some rest bro

I don't sell ddnet under value just to justify your needs

It's funny, you tell @Avolicious to not put things in your mouth, yet you do the same

11:14

Keep projecting, mr. delusional, wont argue with you anymore

a good quote

11:14

Proprietary software development does not contribute to our community, but its developers often want handouts from us. Free software users can offer free software developers strokes for the ego—recognition and gratitude—but it can be very tempting when a business tells you, “Just let us put your package in our proprietary program, and your program will be used by many thousands of people!” The temptation can be powerful, but in the long run we are all better off if we resist it.

But I'm pragmatic enough to try to value your work as good as possible without that (edited)

Jupstar ✪

But I'm pragmatic enough to try to value your work as good as possible without that (edited)

u mean pragmatic?

1

Ryozuki

being open source should be a requirement to be listed as a community

My point (besides to my opinion that the UI decision is frustrating) is that there should be a pragmatical, real reason for any requirement.

11:19

open source should be a requirement to be listed as a community

Do you care about the players or about the devs or about DDNet contribution? What is the goal?

its a ideological requirement

11:19

free software gives end users the most rights

11:19

we should strive for that

11:20

ddnet is open source, mods featured should be open source (edited)

Imagine every Minecraft server needs to be open source in order to be allowed to show their icon using the official protocol next to their server in the list

Kaffeine

open source should be a requirement to be listed as a community

Do you care about the players or about the devs or about DDNet contribution? What is the goal?

its ideological, i believe all users should fully own the software they use and be able to fullfil their 4 rights

(ik, Minecraft doesnt "advertise" open source)

(0) to run the program, (1) to study and change the program in source code form, (2) to redistribute exact copies, and (3) to distribute modified versions.

fokkonaut

Imagine every Minecraft server needs to be open source in order to be allowed to show their icon using the official protocol next to their server in the list

but its a weird take since minecraft is closed source itself

11:21

and i wouldnt be against that if miencraft was open source and required that

11:21

in fact i would be extremely happy

If I am not mistaken, the initial idea was that when the creator of a mod leaves and closes servers, the mod should still remain and can be hosted by others if wanted. Where did this approach go? Why can't we allow DDNet to be a contributor in a private repository, or hand the code to the community after we "leave"?

Ryozuki

its a ideological requirement

I see, I wanted to assume it. Then I'd repeat my comment:

In case of teeworlds, permissive license attracts more developers, which is beneficial for the players.

This ideological requirement can hurt mods and thus hurt the game and DDNet. That's how I see it, and as I see, many mod devs agree.

that idea is a result of having some of the 4 rights

11:22

free software gives u

11:22

permissive license attracts more developers,

11:22

tbh i dont care about that

better idea than forcing people to go open source for a logo which basically only protects a server from being faked and makes it distinguishable

The GNU GPL is not Mr. Nice Guy. It says no to some of the things that people sometimes want to do. There are users who say that this is a bad thing—that the GPL “excludes” some proprietary software developers who “need to be brought into the free software community.” But we are not excluding them from our community; they are choosing not to enter. Their decision to make software proprietary is a decision to stay out of our community. Being in our community means joining in cooperation with us; we cannot “bring them into our community” if they don't want to join.

11:23

another quote :)

It's kinda far fetched to compare all of that to a game like teeworlds, imo

11:24

But I understand your point

fokkonaut

better idea than forcing people to go open source for a logo which basically only protects a server from being faked and makes it distinguishable

forcing ppl to go open source sounds like a epic idea to me

Yeah, ideas and beliefs are different

fokkonaut

It's kinda far fetched to compare all of that to a game like teeworlds, imo

?? game is software xD

11:24

as i said

11:24

this is ideological for me

11:24

its ok for u to not agree

11:24

but its my reason for this

Ryozuki

its ok for u to not agree

I know, lol :)

(and kaffeine asked my reason)

No worries!

ultimately if a dev didnt want to join in cooperation with us by being open source, then its ok, but he wont be featured

11:26

why give handouts? xD its fine to not be ok with everyone

Ryozuki

tbh i dont care about that

You don't care about mods => you don't care about the players, I see. (sorry for the exaggeration) The number of players who care about the freedom is negligible. @Jupstar ✪ has a good point about Steam and players impression. I have to say that the most of the games are not open source and the players do not need it. (edited)

i care the most about players xD which is why i think GPL is the best

11:26

gpl removes devs some rights and gives them to users

11:26

which is why some dislike it

Realistically, most players dont care about open sourceness, that's something from within our nerd/dev bubble right here

11:27

Keep that in mind

i think they would care

If they'd investigate, maybe, but as I said... Realistically...

11:28

We use Discord, lots of people play LoL... What does Tencent do with our data? Nobody "cares"

Kaffeine

I see, I wanted to assume it. Then I'd repeat my comment:

In case of teeworlds, permissive license attracts more developers, which is beneficial for the players.

This ideological requirement can hurt mods and thus hurt the game and DDNet. That's how I see it, and as I see, many mod devs agree.

But permissive license doesn't mean that the developer of that software should advertise closed source software that was built on that

i talked with my father about this, e.g he sometimes find stuff he cant do in software or things that arebroken, i told him in a world of free software i could fix it for him :)