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DDraceNetwork / mapping
Here you can talk about mapping, ask mapping related questions or request new ratings for released maps
Between 2023-12-14 00:00:00Z and 2023-12-15 00:00:00Z
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Broso56
It's your first map, just take some of the feedback and move on, play some new maps like a moderate, and make a new map with new knowledge and feedback
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:00:26Z
Oh yeah, that was my goal from this. But I didn't get feedback, instead I was called unexperienced and a "low efford" mapper.
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
But that's exactly what I focused on. Apparently you deducted that from a still image with 2 extra hidden teleports and 1 hidden weapon.
Because i know what a map requires to be good xD ive been mapping for 6 years. + you already told me the idea of the map so ik its 2 times run. Also just based on looking at simple parts someone can deduce those issues, you dont have to actually play it. Im trying to make you undrestand that those parts we dont accept no more, this has nothing to do with the concept of the map or it being short. The structre of the map is too tight and parts outdated.
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It seems like you got some feedback from quix atleast
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Broso56
It seems like you got some feedback from quix atleast
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:01:29Z
Took at while, but yes. Now I understand where ddnet's standards are.
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
Took at while, but yes. Now I understand where ddnet's standards are.
You can also do that by playing the game more
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what should i say about one outdated part
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Broso56
You can also do that by playing the game more
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:02:37Z
I was aware that most published maps are long. I just didn't know it was a standard to publish.
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Broso56
It's probably better to just make a few maps you personally enjoy, and then to move on without submitting them until you have both more gameplay and mapping experience
This is the actual best advice, tbh
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The most recent map, teeasy, is not long
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Playing more maps, both good and bad will let you know intuitively what to do for your map
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Draggory
The most recent map, teeasy, is not long
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:05:54Z
Yeah, it's not that long, 7 interesting parts if we ignore the easy freezes. Just a lot of walking in between. It's a good novice map. I wish the standard of novice was like that though. (edited)
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QuiX
Because i know what a map requires to be good xD ive been mapping for 6 years. + you already told me the idea of the map so ik its 2 times run. Also just based on looking at simple parts someone can deduce those issues, you dont have to actually play it. Im trying to make you undrestand that those parts we dont accept no more, this has nothing to do with the concept of the map or it being short. The structre of the map is too tight and parts outdated.
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:07:54Z
I didn't focus on the complexity of the parts, as I was exploring the core mechanic of the map.
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And it is, why do you think it got released? its a nice novice map, it has good simple design, flow is good and transitions are okey. Structure is good, enough space for tees too move and feel free etc...
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
I didn't focus on the complexity of the parts, as I was exploring the core mechanic of the map.
Okey, but if its just tests and trying things out and learning, dont complain that it gets declined xD
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JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:08:52Z
The parts are well structured, yes. But the map doesn't have an interesting map mechanic. It's just "standard" hooking
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
The parts are well structured, yes. But the map doesn't have an interesting map mechanic. It's just "standard" hooking
a map doesnt have to have complex mechanic
00:09
its novice
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it should be just hooking and walking, if u are playing u will see there is nearly no easy maps (edited)
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Maps dont require a gimmick
00:09
Just look at the hundreds of hammerhit maps
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you can map whatever you want, only IF you follow all rules and is fun to play
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Or very hard but impossible to fail drag maps
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JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:10:21Z
I never said it was mandatory to have. I was saying that some shorter maps might try to focus more on an interesting mechanic instead of well-structured hooks. (edited)
00:10
It's just difficult to do that when the standard is just hooking and walking.
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JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:11:07Z
No twist.
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Harder maps are more likely to introduce a mechanic or two
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best drama since twilight
😂 2
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But yea a 1* should be the most basic map, for first time players
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FJP
best drama since twilight
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:12:38Z
I'm sorry you're seeing this a drama. I'm hoping at the end of this at least I would understand how ddnet standards work. xd
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its simple, look at newer maps
00:13
😛
00:13
but keep in mind that 1* is not 5*
00:13
especially for novice server
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JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:14:01Z
Even the lowest ddnet difficulty has long maps.
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There is not a specific standard, you just need to follow the rules, make sure everything works and see other maps to guide you.
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Long, yes
00:14
Most don't have a specific mechanic, since well the whole game is new to the player
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QuiX
There is not a specific standard, you just need to follow the rules, make sure everything works and see other maps to guide you.
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:15:24Z
Yeah, now I get that there's more that's written about. Now I know what it is.
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
I'm sorry you're seeing this a drama. I'm hoping at the end of this at least I would understand how ddnet standards work. xd
i feel like this is a common sense issue
00:17
idk
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Broso56
Most don't have a specific mechanic, since well the whole game is new to the player
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:17:49Z
Simple hooking and walking is nice for new players. Just not if the map takes new players multiple runs of 30 minutes to finish.
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A lot of them are short
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FJP
i feel like this is a common sense issue
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:20:52Z
No, if the problem is how easy an easy novice map should be. With the fact that short maps are already out of the question.
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
No, if the problem is how easy an easy novice map should be. With the fact that short maps are already out of the question.
i dont think u can build a novice map
00:21
its harder, u need to know much more (edited)
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
No, if the problem is how easy an easy novice map should be. With the fact that short maps are already out of the question.
No, the problem is parts has to be well mapped and map have a good structure overall xD
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QuiX
No, the problem is parts has to be well mapped and map have a good structure overall xD
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:22:43Z
If the only good structure you're looking for is hooking and walking... then sure.
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who said that?
00:22
im talking about this
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 00:23:01Z
there is a non written roadmap in terms of progression in this game, its not set in stone, but many follow these rules in terms of length, complexity, game knowledge, and the introduction and usage of game physics. you cant expect someone to know how to properly drag, grenade up, do anything gores related or actually play with someone else without struggels before introducing him to things like basic drags, jumping, swings etc. - yes the tutorial map exists, but its fully solo, and i mean.. just look at people on multeasy :P, you need to look and play multiple different maps to unterstand the difference between them and what is/could be difficult for someone, the difficulty doesnt come from length (edited)
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idk why you won't just suck it up and admit the map is bad. nothing wrong with having a bad first map
00:23
end of discussion
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You went for feedback and got your feedback now
00:24
If you want more specific feedback for maps specify that when you first share it
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ
there is a non written roadmap in terms of progression in this game, its not set in stone, but many follow these rules in terms of length, complexity, game knowledge, and the introduction and usage of game physics. you cant expect someone to know how to properly drag, grenade up, do anything gores related or actually play with someone else without struggels before introducing him to things like basic drags, jumping, swings etc. - yes the tutorial map exists, but its fully solo, and i mean.. just look at people on multeasy :P, you need to look and play multiple different maps to unterstand the difference between them and what is/could be difficult for someone, the difficulty doesnt come from length (edited)
play maps but do not compare anything, bcs most of the maps are wrong rated
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QuiX
im talking about this
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:24:54Z
That was literally the first and most simple thing to separate the players. That's why I used it, the map still doesn't focus on that. It focuses on reruning the map as solo, after coop.
00:25
Anyways....
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 00:25:06Z
change rating then monkaStop
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its much work
00:25
this is what we have done, tridemy and me
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
That was literally the first and most simple thing to separate the players. That's why I used it, the map still doesn't focus on that. It focuses on reruning the map as solo, after coop.
Separate what, its just 1 part and then finish map (edited)
00:26
with really hard rocket movement for novice player
00:27
+ the first part being crowded
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Cøke
its much work
BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 00:27:15Z
changed my paragraph accordingly, i didnt keep in mind that the rating is that bad 😛
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its not about the idea of doing it twice, its about the parts themselves, i tried explain you 10 times already xD
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ
changed my paragraph accordingly, i didnt keep in mind that the rating is that bad 😛
yes most of the rating is wrong
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you can have a short good map, yes, but not this what you made, and we told you everything you need to know, now try make it more interesting and keep mapping so you get practice @JUST A SNIPER ツ
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ
there is a non written roadmap in terms of progression in this game, its not set in stone, but many follow these rules in terms of length, complexity, game knowledge, and the introduction and usage of game physics. you cant expect someone to know how to properly drag, grenade up, do anything gores related or actually play with someone else without struggels before introducing him to things like basic drags, jumping, swings etc. - yes the tutorial map exists, but its fully solo, and i mean.. just look at people on multeasy :P, you need to look and play multiple different maps to unterstand the difference between them and what is/could be difficult for someone, the difficulty doesnt come from length (edited)
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:28:30Z
Sadly the only way for me to understand how low I can push a map in terms of simplicity to start as a mapper is to have the discussion that I have been having in this channel. I wish I would have known from reading what's available before getting myself into this situation. I don't even understand what's happening right now, I am being made fun of for starting simple.
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QuiX
you can have a short good map, yes, but not this what you made, and we told you everything you need to know, now try make it more interesting and keep mapping so you get practice @JUST A SNIPER ツ
Exactly lmao
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 00:29:43Z
you're not beeing made fun off @JUST A SNIPER ツ , you are stating things multiple people including tester's disagree with, and from our perspective, you're not accepting, but arguing, and its human behaviour to react that way 🙂
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
Sadly the only way for me to understand how low I can push a map in terms of simplicity to start as a mapper is to have the discussion that I have been having in this channel. I wish I would have known from reading what's available before getting myself into this situation. I don't even understand what's happening right now, I am being made fun of for starting simple.
Nobody is making fun of you, we dont allow that here xD this is saint
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
Sadly the only way for me to understand how low I can push a map in terms of simplicity to start as a mapper is to have the discussion that I have been having in this channel. I wish I would have known from reading what's available before getting myself into this situation. I don't even understand what's happening right now, I am being made fun of for starting simple.
Not really being made fun of. You asked for feedback and got feedback. It's your first map and every good mapper has been there
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
Sadly the only way for me to understand how low I can push a map in terms of simplicity to start as a mapper is to have the discussion that I have been having in this channel. I wish I would have known from reading what's available before getting myself into this situation. I don't even understand what's happening right now, I am being made fun of for starting simple.
00:29
we waiting for it (edited)
00:31
your map fits not even in this category
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ
you're not beeing made fun off @JUST A SNIPER ツ , you are stating things multiple people including tester's disagree with, and from our perspective, you're not accepting, but arguing, and its human behaviour to react that way 🙂
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:31:41Z
Yes, the discussion skewed a bit after asking what exactly ddnet wants and what exactly is better for novice players. But there was more before that point.
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Probably couldve avoided this discussion entirely if you specified your feedback/questions, if you just wanted to see how simple or short a map can be, directly ask for that
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QuiX
Nobody is making fun of you, we dont allow that here xD this is saint
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:33:19Z
I'm not saying it from you, FJP, or some others. There was definitely a lot of feedback, and I already agreed with it.
00:34
Although there was misunderstanding and some other things.
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 00:35:08Z
when you build a bridge, and you let 100 people walk over it, and 98/100 people say that the bridge is bad and needs work, there is no reason to discuss, ask for help, or a source to look into - say thanks and bye 😛 - good luck in your future maps @JUST A SNIPER ツ - trust me, everyone started they way you did!
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Again it's probably best to just make maps completely ignoring ddnet's rules and simply learn the editor itself, and what makes a good map. Simply being told what makes a good map won't work, its likely going to take lots of personal experience
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ
when you build a bridge, and you let 100 people walk over it, and 98/100 people say that the bridge is bad and needs work, there is no reason to discuss, ask for help, or a source to look into - say thanks and bye 😛 - good luck in your future maps @JUST A SNIPER ツ - trust me, everyone started they way you did!
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:37:45Z
Like I said to Broso, that was what I hoped for when asking for feedback. At first, they didn't say why the map was declined, nor what I should improve. It came from a different thread, and the first feedback I got was that I was a "low effort" mapper. (edited)
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
Like I said to Broso, that was what I hoped for when asking for feedback. At first, they didn't say why the map was declined, nor what I should improve. It came from a different thread, and the first feedback I got was that I was a "low effort" mapper. (edited)
we cant teach everyone how to build a map
00:38
its too much work
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Worth mentioning I dont personally map often but just from what I've seen and the gameplay experience I have, I can't imagine my first map ever being on ddnet
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its all done by just playing and build own ideas time by time
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pay me money and i'll write you an essay
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Cøke
we cant teach everyone how to build a map
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:39:02Z
I'm just hoping for you to say why you didn't like the map. Should be too difficult, since you already had to think before declining it.
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FJP
pay me money and i'll write you an essay
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:39:22Z
Don't worry, QuiX already did it for free. xd
💀 1
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
I'm just hoping for you to say why you didn't like the map. Should be too difficult, since you already had to think before declining it.
i was not thinking a singke sec what to do with this map tbh
00:40
i saw from picture its one part
00:40
there is nothing to play or to look
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 00:40:14Z
@JUST A SNIPER ツ the way you're asking coke.. - please remember he and every tester has to look at maps from an objective POV, if your map is objectivly bad, he has to decline it, giving proper feedback is when he see's potential to work on so a full map can be build out of it. (edited)
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Cøke
there is nothing to play or to look
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:40:48Z
You really should have tried it, since you don't even know what the red thing does...
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
You really should have tried it, since you don't even know what the red thing does...
i can see u have not even read the rules/info (edited)
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JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:41:46Z
It has information on it.
kek 2
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if u have, the questions should be different
00:42
bcs ur map is not even fitting in trials category (edited)
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JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:42:31Z
I would be okay with that answer.
00:42
Then I would ask why, and I'm sure we would be happy. ^^
00:43
I just didn't even get the first answer.
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i saw u wrote about hidden ways/teles (edited)
00:43
read the info again pls
00:43
i still think most of the stuff u have to know is done by playing and reading the info
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Cøke
i saw u wrote about hidden ways/teles (edited)
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:43:54Z
You were there when I asked how I can stack multiple game tiles.
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thats not the point
00:45
better try a map that is hard but doable for u
00:45
with not just the same parts over and over again
00:45
🤷‍♂️
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JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:46:06Z
I'm not exactly sure what to take from that.
00:46
Nor where that comes from.
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Just map more and play more
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That's it
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JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:46:41Z
I'm not a new ddnet player.
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Again most of your time is from a novice map
00:47
And in the scale of ddnet 400h is not a lot
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JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:47:28Z
This is still an absurd thing to say.
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 00:47:31Z
@JUST A SNIPER ツ i think - for us to actually give you anything, you must understand where WE got that knowledge from. look at this for example: https://ddnet.org/rules/
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I never said you were new
00:47
Unless someone else said that
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ
@JUST A SNIPER ツ i think - for us to actually give you anything, you must understand where WE got that knowledge from. look at this for example: https://ddnet.org/rules/
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:48:09Z
Btw, the website's rules are outdated.
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You are guaranteed to get better at mapping by playing and mapping more
00:48
And you objectively are new to mapping
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
Btw, the website's rules are outdated.
BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 00:49:12Z
the website rules are the building stone of a map, which is precisely and shorty described. i would still recommend giving it a good read - espacially the first line!
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It's simply just an issue with experience
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ
@JUST A SNIPER ツ i think - for us to actually give you anything, you must understand where WE got that knowledge from. look at this for example: https://ddnet.org/rules/
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:49:18Z
This was what started this channel's discussion. The fact that I'm being called an unexperienced ddnet player. Somehow.
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what we want to tell you is just the normal progression when you play the game, that's for now the most important thing @JUST A SNIPER ツ
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
This was what started this channel's discussion. The fact that I'm being called an unexperienced ddnet player. Somehow.
Cause you are, and that's fine. Compared to other mappers that is
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u cant build a car when u just know how the wheels work (edited)
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Cøke
what we want to tell you is just the normal progression when you play the game, that's for now the most important thing @JUST A SNIPER ツ
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:50:11Z
I'm aware of progression, short maps don't have enough length for that. But, now I know short maps aren't welcome in ddnet. (edited)
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
I'm aware of progression, short maps don't have enough length for that. But, now I know short maps aren't welcome in ddnet. (edited)
they welcome, but we need new category and good maps
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
I'm aware of progression, short maps don't have enough length for that. But, now I know short maps aren't welcome in ddnet. (edited)
Not this short
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Cøke
u cant build a car when u just know how the wheels work (edited)
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:50:55Z
You're assuming that I don't know how the wheels work because I made a single simple hook part? (edited)
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 00:51:13Z
were not assuming, we saw with what you gave us
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boi u have to know much more to build a good map
😂 2
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ
were not assuming, we saw with what you gave us
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:51:55Z
Because that's what I made so far to explore how ddnet mapping tools work. Should you assume that's all my experience on ddnet?
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
You're assuming that I don't know how the wheels work because I made a single simple hook part? (edited)
i have ur new map already in mind, it will be the same but with more parts
00:52
same problems, outdated parts
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
Because that's what I made so far to explore how ddnet mapping tools work. Should you assume that's all my experience on ddnet?
BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 00:52:13Z
we're still not assuming, we saw what you gave us, please keep in mind this discussion is still running because it feels like you wont accept a no? (edited)
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If you're trying to "explore how ddnet mapping tools work" then uploading it is pretty unnecessary
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ
we're still not assuming, we saw what you gave us, please keep in mind this discussion is still running because it feels like you wont accept a no? (edited)
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:52:56Z
I know you're not assuming because you're a logical person, it comes from programming. Coke is calling me unexperienced, he's assuming.
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 00:53:15Z
Coke is one of the oldest ddnet player's i know, when he says a map is bad, i believe in his word
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i tell facts uhave to know b4 mapping a good map (edited)
gigachad 1
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He is calling you unexperienced based on what you provided
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
I know you're not assuming because you're a logical person, it comes from programming. Coke is calling me unexperienced, he's assuming.
I mean it's your first map, how are you going to be experienced
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Draggory
If you're trying to "explore how ddnet mapping tools work" then uploading it is pretty unnecessary
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:53:32Z
I polished my first map, and I thought short 3-part maps were allowed.
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It's not meant to be an insult
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why should i insult a new player for his map
00:54
i telled facts
00:54
nothing more
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ
Coke is one of the oldest ddnet player's i know, when he says a map is bad, i believe in his word
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:54:41Z
We are not even talking about the map here. He's saying I'm unexperienced in ddnet. Not in mapping.
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And for gameplay, 400h isn't a lot, especially if it's all spent on a novice map
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again, the most simple way is just play the game
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
We are not even talking about the map here. He's saying I'm unexperienced in ddnet. Not in mapping.
its ok that u have not the experience in all of it
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Do you think that you're not inexperienced with ddnet?
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just grow a bit
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
We are not even talking about the map here. He's saying I'm unexperienced in ddnet. Not in mapping.
He's still not assuming, you said way earlier half of your time was spent on multeastmap
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Draggory
Do you think that you're not inexperienced with ddnet?
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:56:12Z
I'm experienced in casual ddnet. I have experienced a lot of novice maps. I'm not a competitive player.
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
I'm experienced in casual ddnet. I have experienced a lot of novice maps. I'm not a competitive player.
as i said, its harder to build a novice map
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JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:56:45Z
I'm not looking to make brutal maps. Just a nice, clean novice experience.
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
I'm not looking to make brutal maps. Just a nice, clean novice experience.
im waiting for it
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Broso56
He's still not assuming, you said way earlier half of your time was spent on multeastmap
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:57:11Z
How is that an unexperienced ddnet player?
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Casual ddnet =/= novice only
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That's a single map
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Broso56
That's a single map
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:57:55Z
I have finished a lot other maps, and attempted many more.
00:58
Do I need to be a brutal ddnet player to make a clean novice map experience?
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
I polished my first map, and I thought short 3-part maps were allowed.
Its not really polished @JUST A SNIPER ツ i already explained you everything you would need to consider as a beginnier and to try practice them more. The map doesnt have design, and parts are outdated, this is not called polished map. And you could have also asked this in here before posting (edited)
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
Do I need to be a brutal ddnet player to make a clean novice map experience?
maybe u need it
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QuiX
Its not really polished @JUST A SNIPER ツ i already explained you everything you would need to consider as a beginnier and to try practice them more. The map doesnt have design, and parts are outdated, this is not called polished map. And you could have also asked this in here before posting (edited)
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 00:58:55Z
I read the rules and what was available to be.
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Clearly not @JUST A SNIPER ツ
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
I have finished a lot other maps, and attempted many more.
You can still learn how to make a good novice map by playing harder maps
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Broso56
You can still learn how to make a good novice map by playing harder maps
its more about understanding how noobs play etc
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because if u would have done so, you saw the rule that before posting, everything should be done @JUST A SNIPER ツ (edited)
00:59
if u just wanted feedback, just ask here
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Considering there are over 2000 maps on ddnet, yes I would call you inexperienced (edited)
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whats ur ingame name @JUST A SNIPER ツ
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Cøke
its more about understanding how noobs play etc
Yeah, I more mean a good map overall, and then learning to apply that to a novice map
01:01
But as I've said earlier I don't have personal mapping experience, but I really do think that would still apply
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@JUST A SNIPER ツ its literally the second line of the channel
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QuiX
@JUST A SNIPER ツ its literally the second line of the channel
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 01:02:56Z
What did I miss from that line?
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@JUST A SNIPER ツ u finished 71 maps of over 2000
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QuiX
bruh xD
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 01:03:30Z
No, seriously. I'm asking you to help me to see what information I missed.
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2 main problems people have
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
I read the rules and what was available to be.
BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 01:03:44Z
please keep in mind, that there are 154 novice maps only, you finished 61 of them, and then keep in mind the 200 ddmax.easy and ddmax.next maps! and the 1.5 thousand maps you didnt even try! we can Objectivly say your map is not in any manner ready for deployment, because almost all of us played almost ALL of those! we're not calling you a bad or inexperienced player, we're talking purely objective that creating a map takes knowledge you need to farm up yourself! (edited)
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this game needs a lot of time and attention, you are not good after a few months
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ
please keep in mind, that there are 154 novice maps only, you finished 61 of them, and then keep in mind the 200 ddmax.easy and ddmax.next maps! and the 1.5 thousand maps you didnt even try! we can Objectivly say your map is not in any manner ready for deployment, because almost all of us played almost ALL of those! we're not calling you a bad or inexperienced player, we're talking purely objective that creating a map takes knowledge you need to farm up yourself! (edited)
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 01:04:58Z
How many maps do I need to complete to be deemed worthy to attempt to make a simple map?
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 01:05:06Z
to attempt? 0 - but keep in mind every tester is free to decline it the second you submit when its "OBJECTIVLY" bad (edited)
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
How many maps do I need to complete to be deemed worthy to attempt to make a simple map?
stop it and play maps
01:05
at least all novice maps
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ
to attempt? 0 - but keep in mind every tester is free to decline it the second you submit when its "OBJECTIVLY" bad (edited)
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 01:05:22Z
Then what am I doing wrong here?
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@JUST A SNIPER ツ Im not gonna post more, cause i already explained you with huge texts quick and easy the whole rules
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ
to attempt? 0 - but keep in mind every tester is free to decline it the second you submit when its "OBJECTIVLY" bad (edited)
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 01:05:43Z
Am I free to ask why it was declined?
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 01:05:59Z
you are, but it seems you dont accept the answer, thats why Coke is arguing ^^
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QuiX
@JUST A SNIPER ツ Im not gonna post more, cause i already explained you with huge texts quick and easy the whole rules
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 01:06:26Z
The map follows all those rules.
01:06
Its tight
01:06
and does not contain good flow and transition
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you don't want to understand that you need much more experience, you want to create a map without any experience..that's the problem
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QuiX
Its tight
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 01:06:56Z
The spawn can hold more than 10 players.
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look at the first part
01:07
this doesnt not have enough room
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ
you are, but it seems you dont accept the answer, thats why Coke is arguing ^^
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 01:07:52Z
The only thing I could accept was Coke saying that I was unexperienced.
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i told you already
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
How many maps do I need to complete to be deemed worthy to attempt to make a simple map?
None, you can do as I said earlier and make more maps that are NOT intended to be released. You need to start low, learn the editor first. And attempt making some maps you personally like. ignore ddnet's rules. After a few months at best you should have both more game and mapping experience. It really is as simple as practice more. (edited)
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Let's look at it this way, if someone built a chair for the first time, would you say they're experienced enough to build a house?
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ
you are, but it seems you dont accept the answer, thats why Coke is arguing ^^
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 01:09:21Z
Coke only gave feedback in the middle of this discussion. And I only got significant feedback when QuiX actually wrote why he didn't think the map was to standards.
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Draggory
Let's look at it this way, if someone built a chair for the first time, would you say they're experienced enough to build a house?
i said it with a car
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How else can we tell you @JUST A SNIPER ツ ? i dont understand
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 01:09:31Z
😄 you both just gave the same example lmao
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I don't even remember that icl xD
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Broso56
None, you can do as I said earlier and make more maps that are NOT intended to be released. You need to start low, learn the editor first. And attempt making some maps you personally like. ignore ddnet's rules. After a few months at best you should have both more game and mapping experience. It really is as simple as practice more. (edited)
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 01:10:47Z
How should I have known the map wasn't to be submitted due to didn't standards? It wasn't written anywhere.
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
Coke only gave feedback in the middle of this discussion. And I only got significant feedback when QuiX actually wrote why he didn't think the map was to standards.
BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 01:10:54Z
hey so you were a little maddy that your map got declined, which is totally fine i think, and you got your feedback regarding as to WHY it got declined! - so why are we having this discussion 🙂 i've only seen a handful of people that got their very first map released, and all of those were year long players before touching the editor once!
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it's as if an apprentice comes to me and thinks he can do everything
01:11
bcs he know how to use a hammer
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
How should I have known the map wasn't to be submitted due to didn't standards? It wasn't written anywhere.
its a bit clear that u cant submit a outdated map, u should check the standards of today
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
How should I have known the map wasn't to be submitted due to didn't standards? It wasn't written anywhere.
When Coke is saying you to get more experience is because if you look at latest released maps you would learn that this design is not accepted, and the gameplay itself is poorly made or rushed. So all we saying is, play more and map more thats it.
01:13
i told you
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
How should I have known the map wasn't to be submitted due to didn't standards? It wasn't written anywhere.
I'm not saying you should've known, I mean currently. It's unlikely a relatively new player and objectively new mapper is going to make a releaseable map
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maps take weeks even months
01:13
to map
01:13
a releaseable map
01:13
and this is for experienced mappers
01:13
for newers can be even more
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@texnonik can tell
01:14
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
The map is simple and really small, it's my first map to learn. I was trying to keep that simple look.
You literally made this yesterday, and you said you just started mapping. Dont you think its common sense that it wouldnt be up to today standards?
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ
hey so you were a little maddy that your map got declined, which is totally fine i think, and you got your feedback regarding as to WHY it got declined! - so why are we having this discussion 🙂 i've only seen a handful of people that got their very first map released, and all of those were year long players before touching the editor once!
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 01:15:42Z
I respect discussions, and I can see you do too. I'm glad has programmers we respect arguing. I understand you might not have the full context of the discussion. I was already expecting the map to be declined, and I have no problem with that because that's how I learn. I'm frustrated that Coke, someone who already has experience in this community, assumed since the start of this whole interaction I was a new ddnet player with low efford attempting to map.
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i dont think thats what he said at all
01:16
he said for you to play more maps
01:16
and map practice more
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QuiX
You literally made this yesterday, and you said you just started mapping. Dont you think its common sense that it wouldnt be up to today standards?
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 01:16:50Z
We already went through this, I wasn't aware of the didn't standards was factored in submitting since it wasn't mentioned anywhere.
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you could have asked
01:17
you could have said, "Hey i have made this, is this releaseable or not?" simple as that
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
I respect discussions, and I can see you do too. I'm glad has programmers we respect arguing. I understand you might not have the full context of the discussion. I was already expecting the map to be declined, and I have no problem with that because that's how I learn. I'm frustrated that Coke, someone who already has experience in this community, assumed since the start of this whole interaction I was a new ddnet player with low efford attempting to map.
can u ping it
01:17
where i said u are low effort mapper
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then you could have asked for more feedback or why it would be declined
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JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 01:17:58Z
You know what they said when they saw my map? "You might as well try, the worst it can happen is to be declined"
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QuiX
@JUST A SNIPER ツ Maps should look like up to date standards. And you can mainly see those standards by looking at new released maps, see how their designs are done, parts, flow, structure, ideas etc... Another thing that they didn't mentioned is that, mapping a map takes weeks even months too map, even for expert mappers, this is because: Map should be complete, this means: A proper and suitable length (this is common sense of how long a map should be you cant really have short short maps because its mainly boring and meaning low effort mapping, i dont remember the fastest map so im gonna do a wild guess and say more than 5 min map now dont make it exact 5 min because i said so xD), this includes interesting/creative parts (depending on the category of map); The map should also have a clean and up to date teeish design (You can go for a more creative design if you are good mapper and you do it decent), this also includes nice color palettes. I've seen lots of maps with different color distribution and just looks awful; And finally all parts should be working properly, tested with friends or by people, no bugs, no skips, good flow, and good transitioning between them. Keep in mind, it is CRUCIAL to leave room in parts/transitions for the players throughout the map. And by this i mean, depending of the map structure of your map, you should leave enough space for players to feel comfortably on playing, like moving, doing a nice throw, flying, good hammer hit lenght/height, the parts themselves shouldn't have a 5 tiles gap and then the ceiling. You can have creative tight parts, but this all depends if you are experienced mapper and know how to do it so its not annoying, you get this experience by mapping and mapping and then ask people to play it and see opinions. But it is bad habit to map tight, make things nicier for players. Discord has a word limit xD But to summarize, you cant expect in 1 or 2 days to map, and even more if you are a beginner mapper.
I said it here, maybe he misunderstood when i said "this is common sense of how long a map should be you cant really have short short maps because its mainly boring and meaning low effort mapping" Which i was meaning in general not him just in general that short maps do intend to be that (edited)
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Cøke
where i said u are low effort mapper
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 01:19:08Z
You said I'm a new player, mapping before knowing how ddnet works, which is the same thing as QuiX said when saying "low efford".
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
You said I'm a new player, mapping before knowing how ddnet works, which is the same thing as QuiX said when saying "low efford".
No, you are confused xD
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im starting a timer on my phone rn
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01:19
its been like what
01:19
2 hours at least
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 01:20:10Z
@FJP send @BaumWolle to sleep for me, luring for hours now!
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it will be same until he plays
01:20
😄
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JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 01:20:13Z
@Cøke You were the guy who said car and wheels. lol
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 01:20:37Z
yeah, it means you're unexperienced in mapping @JUST A SNIPER ツ ?
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yes u cant build a car when u just know how the wheel works
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ
yeah, it means you're unexperienced in mapping @JUST A SNIPER ツ ?
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 01:21:09Z
No, it was about unexperience with ddnet.
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 01:21:16Z
no, i saw his context
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Are we all reading the same channel? im confused
f4 2
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QuiX
Are we all reading the same channel? im confused
Lmao who knows
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Broso56
And in the scale of ddnet 400h is not a lot
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 01:22:04Z
The context at the time was about the hours.
01:22
Unless you guys are not following a context and are just throwing things around.
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 01:23:02Z
everyone on ddnet would agree that 400h is not a lot, i wouldnt take that personally, most people (me included) have over 10-20K hours in this game ^^
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you don't want to accept that your experience is also recognized through your map
01:23
🤷‍♂️
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ
everyone on ddnet would agree that 400h is not a lot, i wouldnt take that personally, most people (me included) have over 10-20K hours in this game ^^
thank god it was never tracked (edited)
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ
everyone on ddnet would agree that 400h is not a lot, i wouldnt take that personally, most people (me included) have over 10-20K hours in this game ^^
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 01:24:01Z
Most people who work in the game. Not a player who runs everyday.
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 01:24:04Z
tracking started like.. 2016? right?
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Can we just end it here? This has been going on for way too long for anyone to be fully focused for and commit enough useful information, and it can only get more confusing and more misunderstanding each msg sent. This is hardly even about mapping anymore.
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ
tracking started like.. 2016? right?
2021 if it's off the website (edited)
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 01:24:24Z
@Draggory just wants to go to bed
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ
tracking started like.. 2016? right?
idk i never used steam
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Draggory
Can we just end it here? This has been going on for way too long for anyone to be fully focused for and commit enough useful information, and it can only get more confusing and more misunderstanding each msg sent. This is hardly even about mapping anymore.
f3
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Yes end this
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If y'all still wanna argue I'll just give you a timeout, I'm kinda done with it at this point
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Thats some power abuse
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 01:25:30Z
01:25
(jk i love you Draggory)
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I'd rather not spend the rest of the night running around in circles when my alarm is going off in 4hr 30
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Draggory
If y'all still wanna argue I'll just give you a timeout, I'm kinda done with it at this point
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JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 01:26:10Z
I'm just gonna take the useful feedback that I got from this.
f3 5
f3 3
f3 3
f3 3
f3 3
f3 3
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Good. Let's move on with our days shall we?
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Draggory
I'd rather not spend the rest of the night running around in circles when my alarm is going off in 4hr 30
your own fault
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
I'm just gonna take the useful feedback that I got from this.
If you have any questions write in here 🙂 or dm me ill help you (edited)
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Cøke
your own fault
True, I reap what I sow
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@JUST A SNIPER ツ try to grow ur tee
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 01:27:03Z
dont feed it spicy food, they dont like that!
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Cøke
Click to see attachment 🖼️
real footage of coke
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Seriously where do these GIFs come from
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 01:27:52Z
damn now im sad, anyone wanna discuss something stupid with me so i can have smth to do? netflix aint netflixin for me rn
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Go sleep
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 01:28:10Z
never
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I wanna thank you all for entertaining me for the last 2,5 hours owo
kek 5
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Or go Dev :)
justatest 1
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FJP
real footage of coke
you would like to know
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Draggory
Or go Dev :)
BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 01:28:38Z
you go dev :c
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I'm so fucked on my comp sci project
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Draggory
I'm so fucked on my comp sci project
channel is about mapping
01:29
keep in mind
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But that's off topic~
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ
damn now im sad, anyone wanna discuss something stupid with me so i can have smth to do? netflix aint netflixin for me rn
if there are an infinite amount of numbers, and an infinite amount of decimals in between those numbers, does that mean that the infinity of decimals is bigger than the infinity of numbers
01:29
therefore infinity is greater than infinity
01:30
?
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BlaiZephyr | meloƞ 2023-12-14 01:30:13Z
hmu in general chat for the answer, Coke's right, lets not mix channels!
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Cøke
Click to see attachment 🖼️
This is the real footage of Coke
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only a few ppl know the real one
pepeH 2
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JUST A SNIPER ツ
I'm just gonna take the useful feedback that I got from this.
JimmyJazzThe1st 2023-12-14 03:39:18Z
Would you listen to a musician that plays guitar once a month and does no practice or an experienced one that plays 8 hours a day 7 days a week. Would you let someone build your house who has 400 hours experience building sand castles? Same logic can be applied to mappers and their relative game experience. I think all mappers look back at their first few maps and cringe. And they usually have a decent amount of game experience when they first attempted mapping. Based on your images/ video your parts are lacking in everything. But that is to be expected. It takes a long time to develop mapping knowledge and skills. It's life.
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FJP
the real multimap
Multimap>Multieasymap
✅ 6
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JimmyJazzThe1st
Would you listen to a musician that plays guitar once a month and does no practice or an experienced one that plays 8 hours a day 7 days a week. Would you let someone build your house who has 400 hours experience building sand castles? Same logic can be applied to mappers and their relative game experience. I think all mappers look back at their first few maps and cringe. And they usually have a decent amount of game experience when they first attempted mapping. Based on your images/ video your parts are lacking in everything. But that is to be expected. It takes a long time to develop mapping knowledge and skills. It's life.
I think a general problem is that the game is so old. 10 years ago or earlier it was easier to create a map that met the requirements. Nowadays many mappers have been playing for years or even a decade, have released many maps and have gathered a lot of knowledge about the editor. The barriers to entry are getting higher and higher because the demands have grown over the years. I can generally understand why this can be frustrating for "newer" mappers. A map that a new mapper has created in 10 hours can sometimes be created by an experienced mapper in 10 minutes. I have no idea how to counteract this, perhaps with more and better tutorials. Idk. (edited)
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iTom
I think a general problem is that the game is so old. 10 years ago or earlier it was easier to create a map that met the requirements. Nowadays many mappers have been playing for years or even a decade, have released many maps and have gathered a lot of knowledge about the editor. The barriers to entry are getting higher and higher because the demands have grown over the years. I can generally understand why this can be frustrating for "newer" mappers. A map that a new mapper has created in 10 hours can sometimes be created by an experienced mapper in 10 minutes. I have no idea how to counteract this, perhaps with more and better tutorials. Idk. (edited)
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Cøke
only a few ppl know the real one
Teeasy , nice map) (edited)
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JimmyJazzThe1st
Would you listen to a musician that plays guitar once a month and does no practice or an experienced one that plays 8 hours a day 7 days a week. Would you let someone build your house who has 400 hours experience building sand castles? Same logic can be applied to mappers and their relative game experience. I think all mappers look back at their first few maps and cringe. And they usually have a decent amount of game experience when they first attempted mapping. Based on your images/ video your parts are lacking in everything. But that is to be expected. It takes a long time to develop mapping knowledge and skills. It's life.
JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 18:23:23Z
Like I already said before, I'm not trying to create a 15-part map. I'm not building a castle. Unless you expect every ddnet map to be a castle. I tried to create a map that explored the interesting concept of forcing the player to do the same map twice in 2 different ways. The concept works on the 2nd version, now I just have to extend it as far as I can. I didn't submit the map with the expectation that it would offer the player the same experience of a fully complete 15-part map.
18:24
Now I know that's what ddnet expects, every map submitted needs to be a castle. There's no room to explore, I get it now.
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There’s no way this is still going on
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JUST A SNIPER ツ 2023-12-14 18:26:03Z
I'm just replying. lol
18:27
Apparently everyone has something to say about this situation, even when it's already over. xd
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JimmyJazzThe1st 2023-12-14 19:52:33Z
Exported 324 message(s)