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Between 2023-12-11 00:00:00Z and 2023-12-12 00:00:00Z

yea i agree

00:00

i want his head.

lerato is forgotten feelsbadman

feelsbadman

feelsbadman

4

Stepfunn

Hello ddnet admins & devs So me and a bunch of other people were just wondering about what happened to the account system and if there will ever be one to potentially come. It would be nice to know about the problems and plans surrounding this topic. Especially as it seems like the whole community wants something like this implemented (i. e. the survey that was done in the past in ⁠announcements ). Probably the whole community would like to know about what's actually going on there so that perhaps solutions could be found. Be it by funding and therefore paying the devs if that is the problem or by anything else (depending on how this whole thing turns out), I think many people would be glad to help. Best regards @deen @murpi @Robyt3

do it yourself pepega

FrogeConcern

Image attachment

4

LMAO (edited)

thats my account yes

00:07

you dont need to remind me

they be talking wild

1

a a a all my fellas

LCSG47 would pay you (edited)

Mio would slide y'all some crypto dw about it

Voxel

do it yourself pepega

we do not want to force anyone to work on it. we just want to have an open discussion because it kinda got swept under the rug with no communication at all

1

Does anyone have a bind to change the buttons of different binds? Example: I am doing hammerfly and I want to stop doing that and the dummy doesn't hit anymore.

z0rba

Mio would slide y'all some crypto dw about it

frfr

ngl, if ever we get account systems in ddnet, I'll 100% try funding that.

Yes, I would get a 3rd job just for funding ddnet

I feel like the whole thing didn't progress because the voices of the people who didn't want the account system were louder and because of non-agreement on the 'type' of the actual implementation. Each active dev has his own ideas, and ofc each idea has pros and cons

go talk louder than konsti then

Stepfunn

we do not want to force anyone to work on it. we just want to have an open discussion because it kinda got swept under the rug with no communication at all

it never got swept under the rug with no communication at all, the communication is in a place where if you urself had self interest would have found, its always available and you got linked to it already: https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/3411#issuecomment-1534189301

Accounts · Issue #3411 · ddnet/ddnet

Summary by UnlucksMcGee (thanks a lot!)

10:23

the thing is, this is a volunteer project, this is a complex feature involving many moving parts and its hard to coordinate, there are many ways to go on about it, each with different drawbacks and pros, it also needs quite lot of work, people have jobs, their life etc, we don't have many new devs too, i dislike how u make it seem like people who work on this project tried to hide the accounts work, not at all, people just have their lifes

10:24

dont assume bad faith

10:26

also about paying devs: maybe a money incentive may make some dev work on it, but ultimately people need to keep their jobs and monthly wage, im sure it would be rly hard to afford to pay fulltime someone, even then i myself would think it hard before becoming a full time dev on a volunteer project, there is almost 0 job security as in you could stop being funded anytime unlike in a real company etc

10:28

in case u dont want to click the link

10:28

ill paste the text

10:28

---

struggle

Summary of this Accounts discussion as of 2023/03/31

Benefits of Account system

Verified users, preventing impersonations with fake finishes, and easier event organising.
Player roles/badges in-game, e.g. moderator, mapper, donator, tournament winner etc.
Moderation simplified for bans, mutes etc. Can't evade bans through a new IP.
Friend lists.
Clans.
Maps and skins can be bound to author accounts.

Drawbacks of Account System

No reasonable way to correctly link unverified accounts to new accounts for points transfer. Perhaps players can "link" their account to an old accountless username, but this won't be verified and will show up as a separate section on the account page.

Concerns

Worry about unknowingly leaking private keys related to login ("just send me this file and that file"), if credentials are stored locally. ## Design Requirements

Must-haves

Playable without authentication
Authenticate client via a login mechanism
Records and identity moved from name to a unique identifier UID (only necessary between client and master e.g. /w stays same)
Support account recovery

Desirables

Preserve old points so progress is not lost
Avoid storing confidential information
Decentralized authentication

Undesirables

Force accounts onto users

10:29

Future plans/suggestions to consider

PlayerRoles: Needed when wanting to grant permissions based on role e.g. tester, mapper, admin etc. (can be left out for now)
Clans: Needed when wanting to support clans (can be left out for now)
ConfigSettings: Save certain user config settings for syncing across devices? ## Proposal 1 by kyle-bradley

Suggested database structure Explanation for existing tables:

RaceCheckpoints: I noticed the majority of maps had these columns unused and when they did it was variable. Felt it could benefit from being its own table for that flexibility
DifficultyTiers: There is a coupling between difficulty levels, tiers (i.e. stars), and points. Unless I am mistaken, you wouldn't have a map with the same level, tier but different points. This allows for a singular location to maintain that association
Server: This logic is housed informally somewhere, so useful to bring it in here where the data is structured and queryable
User Flow
1. /login - email in server || alternative is to have a login UI button

1. /otp - email -code in server || alternative is to have a dialog post clicking login 1. Success!

Implementation

1. Client sends the email address to the master server 1. Master server sends an email with a pin to the address. The pin is a unique identifier generated off the email similar to a hash 1. Client sends the pin, email address, name, and country code to the master server 1. Master server checks if the pin matches the email address. If so, sends back access_key and upserts the account info. Master server doesn't have to be the same as the current.

10:29

The objective was to create a secure account system while still adhering to the principle of an open database. This is achieved through a static secret salt and generated salt per pin. 1. User requests login 1. Entry into PinTable made with:

Lookup: Hash of email address and secret salt

Readable Code: Deterministic Guid created from the email address, salt, and a different secret salt

Valid Timestamp: 12 hours

1. User supplies readable code and email address - client will send through name and country code as well

Lookup: hash of email address and secret salt. If still within valid period, fetches readable code

Compares associated readable code with the supplied code

If valid gets or creates the user with a new access key

1. Future account requests to be made with the access key. I'm no security expert so welcome any feedback.

Proposal 2 by def-

1. Central account server to register on and log in to administer your account 1. Account server returns private key token to player, stores public key token 1. When client joins a game server, game server asks account server for the currently valid public key tokens. 1. Game server sends challenge to client, client uses its private key token to solve it. Thus evil server hosters can't steal tokens and impersonate players. 1. Allow every username to be registered an unlimited number of times, assign a random integer to the username (similar to Discord). Players add friends using the name+id. Nicknames can be used in-game, but actual name+id are also shown. Thus we have no effort to make sure players are claiming names of known players already.

10:29

Don't move points from old accountless world. Keep them around as non-account players and players can keep using them forever. Alternatively, start a season 2 of DDNet instead where account players start at 0 points, but can collect new achievements, only available for logged in players. Something like the Duolingo achievements, to motivate players to use accounts. "There seem to be a lot of conflicting ideas and wishes for season 2 and accounts. After some discussions, instead of a reset we will keep gradually improving DDNet." - deen Some additional discussions regarding new setups proposed in season 2 are here, but could be useful for general account discussions.

10:29

Next steps

1. Check if the community likes this idea, done 1. Figure out how to safely get authentication data from other players to your client. We could only trust the http master server for this, which we also run, and not the game server. Registration server could tell the http master who is logged in where. 1. Implement a backend to register accounts from website/client. In case of DoS attacks put it behind cloudflare and force registration from website 1. Implement a frontend to administer your account from website/client. Register, delete account (disables but keeps ranks), change email address, change password, connect to some auth service (mainly Steam I guess). 1. Figure out how to make registration for Steam users "one-click". Can we get their Steam ID and connect them to Steam automatically to sign up? Then no email and password required. 1. Think about what achievements we want to have and make them show up on website/client. Some should be stackable so you can improve on them, design some nice graphics for them:

Number of days with finishes every day: 7 days / 14 days / ...

Long finish: 4 hours / 8 hours / ...

Reach points: 1000 / 2000 / ...

Team rank with same friend on number of maps: 10 / 20 / ...

Perfect time finish with :00.00

Team finish with large number of players: 16 / 32 / 64

Top ranks: 1 / 2 / 4 / 8 / ...

All maps finished on server: Novice / Moderate / ...

Account age and still active: 1 year / 2 years / ...

10:29

Are there any other major things we should change now that we have the chance of a "new season"? Things which could not be changed normally because of backwards compatibility? Skeith suggested disallowing team finishes "cheated" with dummies.

Additional notes by heinrich5991 and Learath2

Each client generates an asymmetric key and uses it to authenticate against each game server. This is transparent to the user. The user can "log in" to an account by giving an email address while authenticating with its private key. The account server will store a constant, never changing mapping of public key hash → account ID. This mapping is public and can be queried via an HTTPS endpoint so third party servers can also use it. The fact that the mapping is constant can be used to aggressively cache the mapping on all servers, lowering the impact if the authentication server is down. A user might play from multiple clients – the private keys aren't shared by default, instead the user logs in from multiple private keys. There are two methods I can think of to support logout. Either the client generates a new key (might have a bit of a bad UX because we then don't trust the client anymore), or we include an increasing login index, and use hash(public key + login index) as login identifier instead of hash(public key), meaning that logout would simply be incrementing the login index. In order to securely support login, the client-server connection must be encrypted and authenticated, otherwise MITM and proxying issues immediately appear. The login protocol should bind to the cryptographic session so that the login sequence cannot be forwarded to other servers.

10:29

Also see issue #5411 about secure server connections.

Another proposal from discussion in #developer channel

Perhaps accounts are mandatory. e.g. Old username is: MyCoolName New account name could be: MyCoolName#1234 You can opt-in to include the points of your former username with this account (but they're marked as "unverified")? Allow players to hide their account name (MyCoolName#1234) in-game to play anonymously. While that option is enabled, they lose the ability to add friends and other features (/points and showing rank in scoreboard) that need the account name etc. But they can still finish maps that can count toward their points. Mods can still see the account name. If someone has their account name hidden trying to impersonate someone, then you can just automatically assume that it's an impersonator.

10:29

---

10:29

enjoy the read

Can you dm me? For some reason i cant dm you. The new discord app broke.

i say we do anything except whatever the hell kog did

Duuuh

chillerdragon

windows

.

who are u trying to dm

Chillerdragon

i dont think you can dm webhooks/bridges?

This is what I see

Image attachment

10:33

Wait thats not a discord account

thats what im saying

to dm chiller join irc

just write public in #developer you request isn't really secret

K

Ryozuki

Summary of this Accounts discussion as of 2023/03/31

Benefits of Account system

Verified users, preventing impersonations with fake finishes, and easier event organising.
Player roles/badges in-game, e.g. moderator, mapper, donator, tournament winner etc.
Moderation simplified for bans, mutes etc. Can't evade bans through a new IP.
Friend lists.
Clans.
Maps and skins can be bound to author accounts.

Drawbacks of Account System

No reasonable way to correctly link unverified accounts to new accounts for points transfer. Perhaps players can "link" their account to an old accountless username, but this won't be verified and will show up as a separate section on the account page.

Concerns

Worry about unknowingly leaking private keys related to login ("just send me this file and that file"), if credentials are stored locally. ## Design Requirements

Must-haves

Playable without authentication
Authenticate client via a login mechanism
Records and identity moved from name to a unique identifier UID (only necessary between client and master e.g. /w stays same)
Support account recovery

Desirables

Preserve old points so progress is not lost
Avoid storing confidential information
Decentralized authentication

Undesirables

Force accounts onto users

read the linked text and maybe we can have a look at what community likes most, altho u need to understand the security and technical drawbacks copying @Jupstar ✪ comment on github:

kyle-bradly - centralized Account system, mentions implementation details ❤️ Def - centralized Account system. User gets private key for auth. As far as I see ddnets account server would tell if the pub key is valid

Learath - from discord it sounds like he wants a classic centralized Account system with steam integration for easier registering.. so I assume for ddnet only(?)

Heinrich - accounts are decentralized(or partially? or are they at all?), but a list of keys bound to the user are account is hosted by ddnet which all game servers can download. Recovery is optionaly doable by setting an email. Account names like discord(?)

Jupeyy - decentralized or semi-centralized. Let the user choose if they want to use ddnet register service which also supports steam login or classic email login. Allow fully decentralized account where user has to make sure not to loose keys(can be used for new players that don't register over ddnet service directly to automatically have an account). Pub key is used to indentify. Key pairs per server group. Other game servers don't need to know about ddnet except for account recovery. For normal users this should feel like a centralized Account system. Can still be implemented even when starting with centralized accounts I guess for all system possible UI would be integrated into the client direclty React with emojis. I tried to only use positive emojis (edited)

10:38

@Jupstar ✪ xddd

also i rly think we shouldnt do login commands in chat

10:39

instead we need a secure UI

10:39

so users dont leak anything xD

my approach needs no UI

7dm jupstar send nudes pls

it doesnt even need any login

10:39

it doesnt even need any database access

10:40

the login is the encryption process

10:40

and the hash of the pub key can be stored directly into the rank

10:40

so it can never fail bcs of database outage

Didn't all the new season (accounts) thing "stop" because there was so much hype devs got overwelmed? With so much "new stuff" being asked and none of it already being there

Devinci

Didn't all the new season (accounts) thing "stop" because there was so much hype devs got overwelmed? With so much "new stuff" being asked and none of it already being there

bcs deen forgot he has a fulltime job xddd

That's a bit how it felt

Devinci

Didn't all the new season (accounts) thing "stop" because there was so much hype devs got overwelmed? With so much "new stuff" being asked and none of it already being there

that too, deen mentioned just accounts, but ppl started saying achievements and more stuff

10:41

also deen is busy rn

10:41

10:41

deenjr

Jr Deen

Image attachment

soon

10:43

when he is 6y old

10:43

or she

Ryozuki

also i rly think we shouldnt do login commands in chat

Uh yeah lmao

Ryozuki

also deen is busy rn

ayo bro is daddy now poggers2

poggers2

feelsamazingman

1

Ryozuki

dont assume bad faith

I never did. I mention this all the time. I'm really thankful for every second people invest into developing the game. I'm just really sad because the account topic was brought up with a discord announcement which seemed like the devs came to the conclusion to actually work on a collective plan. Sadly the whole idea was delayed because people expected too much which ment there was no plan of actually implementing it still (edited)

Stepfunn

I never did. I mention this all the time. I'm really thankful for every second people invest into developing the game. I'm just really sad because the account topic was brought up with a discord announcement which seemed like the devs came to the conclusion to actually work on a collective plan. Sadly the whole idea was delayed because people expected too much which ment there was no plan of actually implementing it still (edited)

Adding accounts of something existing isnt that quite easy - been there done that.

Avolicious

Adding accounts of something existing isnt that quite easy - been there done that.

Yea we all know about the points problem. Thats one of the big questions. Should points be reset or not?

Stepfunn

Yea we all know about the points problem. Thats one of the big questions. Should points be reset or not?

Well, we tried not to reset points

12:42

Long term players, like the ones playing for years, they trust server hosters to keep their stats available

even with points reset, trolls will steal names (edited)

Thank you @Ryozuki for providing the github summary! I haven’t read it full at this point but I will do so as soon as I get the time. However, I understand that there are different approaches by the devs anf expectations overall. The whole topic as of now simpy just seems a little off because of the publicly announced stop of working on it because „people expected too much“ and the closing of all channels etc. If the project is actually still in process then I think it would be good to have some kind of channel or at least something similar. Like this the whole thing wouldn’t seem so dead and people could actually talk about the issues and problems and discuss about which approach would be the best.

<BµmM>

even with points reset, trolls will steal names (edited)

An option to the ticket system allowing people to contest for their names if it was stolen by a troll would be a way to "fix" this (edited)

Freezy

Thank you @Ryozuki for providing the github summary! I haven’t read it full at this point but I will do so as soon as I get the time. However, I understand that there are different approaches by the devs anf expectations overall. The whole topic as of now simpy just seems a little off because of the publicly announced stop of working on it because „people expected too much“ and the closing of all channels etc. If the project is actually still in process then I think it would be good to have some kind of channel or at least something similar. Like this the whole thing wouldn’t seem so dead and people could actually talk about the issues and problems and discuss about which approach would be the best.

Discussions are great, but at some point someone has to decide which way to go. All of the listed approaches are good and valueable but there is always a trade-off. After the decision has been made, someone has to actually implement it.

Avolicious

Discussions are great, but at some point someone has to decide which way to go. All of the listed approaches are good and valueable but there is always a trade-off. After the decision has been made, someone has to actually implement it.

Yes I understand this but at some point the whole thing has to be started in order to even get there.

Freezy

Yes I understand this but at some point the whole thing has to be started in order to even get there.

It has been started over 1 year ago

It has been officially started and officially been cancelled. At least this is basically how it seems to be stated to the most of the community. Even now the whole process seems to be stuck because of complications that are being addressed on the one hand but not being discussed on the other hand so that solutions can be found and actual progress be made. Because as of now people can't even work on it because admins, devs & the community aren't sure about how exactly this should turn out. Therefore I'd say this is a call of the community to actually talk about those things. (edited)

Because as of now people can't even work on it because admins, devs & the community aren't sure about how exactly this should turn out.

13:27

thats false

13:27

the only thing cancelled is deen himself working on it

13:27

any dev or ppl at any point can work on this

The biggest issue is that all 3 of those have to agree on a compromise for any work to be done. None of the devs really want to put in time for something this large that might not be merged or liked by the community

Ryozuki

the only thing cancelled is deen himself working on it

ah it's good to have this clarified, thank you!

Learath2

The biggest issue is that all 3 of those have to agree on a compromise for any work to be done. None of the devs really want to put in time for something this large that might not be merged or liked by the community

That's totally understandable and it's obvious that you can't make progress there alone This is why we, the community (I'd just say that I speak for the community) are offering to help so that it can actually be discussed again how exactly this could work out.

13:36

Like if it for example was too much work as stated in the past because of too many expectations, I'm sure that people might already be justified by the basics of an account system in the first place

Some part of the community will always be mad about changes

13:37

But imo if you just implement it, they’ll get tame over time

thats not the problem here tho

13:38

its there are lot of ways to go on about this

Well its what learath said

btw i think the first thing we need is to add support for a secure encrypted communication channel

13:39

it will be needed regardless of the method

I think the first thing that ddnet needs is an agreement between all admins

not rly

13:40

we rly need the secure thing

it's agreed that accounts, be it optional etc., are wanted

all devs agree about wanting accounts xd

but anything else is still subject to change xd

Ryozuki

all devs agree about wanting accounts xd

But not about how its going to be implemented

yeah

13:41

and not just admins need to agree

Iza

I think the first thing that ddnet needs is an agreement between all admins

nah, the secure channel thing is fine anyway

(jupstar and i are not admins :d)

everyone wants that, or at least nobody is opposed

Ryozuki

all devs agree about wanting accounts xd

communtiy agreed to abt 90 % in the past also iirc

I don't think we have a way to poll the community tbh

13:42

but most voices we heard were positive, there were also negative ones

13:42

the devil is in the details though

13:42

while "most people" might be in favor of accounts in the way they imagine it

13:43

you don't know how many people would be able to agree with any particular implementation

Personally i'd just say to look over some other games with a successful account system and just copy paste

Yeah. Let's not copy discord nor league. Thanks (edited)

most arent open source and centralized by a company

Devinci

Yeah. Let's not copy discord nor league. Thanks (edited)

Why not discord

13:45

Its a pretty standard acc system

discord allows people to participate without an email address btw

No. you need an email

13:45

if you want an account

13:45

you don't need to verify it though

thats the same as not requiring one xd

Those accounts get easily flagged as spam and most big servers exclude those accs

yes and no. I could create an account using Ryozuki@whatever.com. but if you decide to do something about it I couldn't use it anymore

also, discord locks out people randomly, too

13:47

requiring a phone number

13:47

not a good role model

Well just leave out the phone number part

13:47

And its a great acc system

13:48

But does ddnet have to have an open source acc system?

The only "great" thing it has that would suit ddnet is the separation between account id and account name, which you can change however you feel like

Iza

But does ddnet have to have an open source acc system?

afaik most dev want that?

In my eyes it just brings more complications than not

Iza

In my eyes it just brings more complications than not

well, there's no way part of ddnet is going to be closed source

yeah, but then we would become the thing clearly most hated in this community, which is kog

but I'm not sure what complications you see in an open-source acc system

Jokes aside it it would ruin a big part of the purpose of this game

I see some in a "decentralized" one, but I also want to have that ^^

Im not an expert but i thought that you’d have to go out of your way to make the acc system private, where as in a closed source code you dont have to bother with it

no, open-source isn't really a problem in any way here

13:53

"decentralized" might be a problem

Ahh okay

13:54

So why not centralized then?

At this point I'd be okay with giving up on decentralized. It's a developer thing, we enjoy decentralized stuff but it's not that important for the end user at all imo

13:57

But the idea is that if ddnet dies a decentralized account system doesnt die along with it

13:58

And that other mods can use the accounts without having to rely on infrastructure we'd have to host (like a central authentication server)

or that people aren't able to DoS the authentication server easily

or that you need db access for the login process

Anyway, all cool stuff, for us. But also a massive engineering hurdle as there really aren't many examples around that we can take inspiration from (edited)

there aren't many examples indeed

14:03

teamspeak3 is one

we should all do our own idea. And who finishes first wins

14:06

then i'm motivated

xddd

14:08

the idea is easier to implement if we have a secure channel already

that is true

14:09

i honestly fear to rewrite SQLs for the website most xD

14:09

-100% motivation

Ryozuki

the idea is easier to implement if we have a secure channel already

https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/6961

QUIC PoC by heinrich5991 · Pull Request #6961 · ddnet/ddnet

Still missing: timeout protection works on computers other than my own? works on windows? works for cross-compiling review protocol for segmenting messages, is there some sort of standard may...

14:10

but yea, definitely not finished

Jupstar ✪

i honestly fear to rewrite SQLs for the website most xD

thats deen job

14:11

he is a magician now

I can write SQL that makes your DBMS segfault or write wrong results, does that count as magic?

14:13

that's not supposed to be possible

14:13

not even OOM, but segfault?

Yes, thus I'm trying to find such cases in my main job, bugs to be fixed

14:14

(now with Rust mostly panics instead of segfaults luckily, but C++ was worse previously)

Jupstar ✪

git submodule update

what is that

Avolicious

Well, we tried not to reset points

u cant compare it, ddnet is way bigger

Ali Furkan

what is that

fetch latest ddnet-libs

Avolicious

Adding accounts of something existing isnt that quite easy - been there done that.

the most visited kog servers are the ones where you don't need an account, right?

14:35

for me its like, why should i make a acc for just a mod of a game

like ddnet? ^^

accounts are cool but not rly needed for teeworlds

heinrich5991

like ddnet? ^^

i think its better to have a account for the whole game yes (edited)

ddnet is just a mod of teeworlds, I doubt teeworlds is going to introduce accounts

i was hoping u know what i mean

Cøke

i was hoping u know what i mean

I think client-based accounts is the direction this is going already (edited)

14:40

Anyway, I was really hoping to get an extra channel on this server on the whole account debate so it isn't just forgotten in a few days again already as this is a constant wish of the community (at least from what I can tell)

14:40

or at least something similar

You got github for that

14:41

if you mean something like a thread, imo it would also just get forgotten

you can use github like a forum

14:41

make an account and post a comment

I feel like only devs use github like ever - whenever I see a github post it always shows some dev talk that no one without IT-knowledge is able to understand so I always just ignore these posts

14:43

maybe it's just me but I don't think so

feel free to make a post on the ddnet github

14:43

it's literally making an account like on any other website

14:43

and the post field is just a text box

14:43

if you can unzip ddnet, you can make a comment

14:44

oof, they modified the sign up form

14:44

it looks like a game now

But what do you want that extra channel to be used for anyways? Most of the talk would be about the possible implementation of the acc system, it's already known it's (mostly?) wanted. If you were thinking about talking about more stuff than just accs, I feel it will just end up like the last time

why would you enforce ppl to use github if we literally have an official community server on here, I just don't get it

there are many smaller things that are already causing big problems... accounts will never come I think

Freezy

why would you enforce ppl to use github if we literally have an official community server on here, I just don't get it

because discord isn't suited to this discussion

1

we wait for months now for only new dc roles (edited)

discord is suited to short-term things

Cøke

there are many smaller things that are already causing big problems... accounts will never come I think

A lot of issues would be solved with acconts

Devinci

A lot of issues would be solved with acconts

i liked the time where u didnt even had points

14:47

just -2344

14:47

and only when u finished (edited)

Yeah, and I bet on those times you didn't have 100 players a day advertising some bot client, blockers, or whatever

Devinci

But what do you want that extra channel to be used for anyways? Most of the talk would be about the possible implementation of the acc system, it's already known it's (mostly?) wanted. If you were thinking about talking about more stuff than just accs, I feel it will just end up like the last time

I don't think there should be focus on more stuff than just accs, one could think about that after the basics of the account system are there but no need to do that as of now. However, it seems like talk about the implementation of it is what's necessary as of now

Yeah, so github is a perfect place for that

heinrich5991

because discord isn't suited to this discussion

Iam still a fan of building a small team and discuss it in a private server, collect all informations, pros and cons and a clear plan and than present it from time to time.

the next step of the accounts system (from my PoV) is a secure server connection

14:49

we don't have that yet

Devinci

Yeah, and I bet on those times you didn't have 100 players a day advertising some bot client, blockers, or whatever

it was another time, ppl were just playing and had fun

14:49

no sadness

1

I remember people botting >10 years ago

heinrich5991

the next step of the accounts system (from my PoV) is a secure server connection

it seems like many people already agree on that

but nobody care about them

I can't really see how people with not enough knowledge to open a github account could potentially help on that discussion. One thing is how users want them to be, then ig here it may be relevant to ask everyone on discord. But the biggest issue rn is about how to implement them

in the begin i helped without acc

14:51

just by saying what to do

14:51

14:52

or tell my ideas

Freezy

it seems like many people already agree on that

this is a possible start of an implementation. but it's not finished: https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/6961

Devinci

I can't really see how people with not enough knowledge to open a github account could potentially help on that discussion. One thing is how users want them to be, then ig here it may be relevant to ask everyone on discord. But the biggest issue rn is about how to implement them

Alright, see that's very disrespectful and you're making assumptions, I know that you're a moderator but then you should probably just delete this message. It's not about the knowledge here and I am sure I would pretty easily be capable of creating an account. I just don't see the sense of it. Additionally the community is obviously an important factor on this whole matter.

yes, anyone is welcome to comment on the ddnet github

Devinci

I can't really see how people with not enough knowledge to open a github account could potentially help on that discussion. One thing is how users want them to be, then ig here it may be relevant to ask everyone on discord. But the biggest issue rn is about how to implement them

Is the biggest issue about how to implement them? From my understanding it's less about making it work and more about finding something that fits for everyone

14:55

Implementation comes after a consensus of what to do no?

Draggory

Is the biggest issue about how to implement them? From my understanding it's less about making it work and more about finding something that fits for everyone

i would say its more about actually doing it xd

Devinci

I can't really see how people with not enough knowledge to open a github account could potentially help on that discussion. One thing is how users want them to be, then ig here it may be relevant to ask everyone on discord. But the biggest issue rn is about how to implement them

i had also never a account on the website

Freezy

Alright, see that's very disrespectful and you're making assumptions, I know that you're a moderator but then you should probably just delete this message. It's not about the knowledge here and I am sure I would pretty easily be capable of creating an account. I just don't see the sense of it. Additionally the community is obviously an important factor on this whole matter.

Yeah sorry for the disrespect, didn't really mean it (didn't know how to formulate it differently). But if I understood correctly the only thing we need to proceed with the creating of an account system is the common agreement of devs about how to implement it. Community is a very important factor but not for this exactly? idk

Ryozuki

i would say its more about actually doing it xd

I thought y'all were still deciding on who's idea you're going to use to implement, I get that the implementation is hard but don't you still need to agree to a method first?

Ryozuki

i would say its more about actually doing it xd

like testing things? ppl already waiting for it but nobody is doing the work

14:58

‍♂️

Cøke

like testing things? ppl already waiting for it but nobody is doing the work

no, like writing the code

15:00

xd

yes what i mean

nobody took on the task, its a big feature

15:00

which is why i always mention ppl have their own lives jobs, family

15:00

and that we dont have new devs

Devinci

Yeah sorry for the disrespect, didn't really mean it (didn't know how to formulate it differently). But if I understood correctly the only thing we need to proceed with the creating of an account system is the common agreement of devs about how to implement it. Community is a very important factor but not for this exactly? idk

Given that the entire game is community based*, why wouldn't the community be important for this? If the devs put something in that no one really likes then it renders it kinda useless no?

we are more experienced now but lack time, vs when we where younger and had insane time

15:01

atleast its how i feel about me XD

it rly take so much time to bring new map category with new points?

i did a bit of work to get new devs tho

15:01

i made https://edgarluque.com/categories/ddracenetwork/ and the wiki page https://wiki.ddnet.org/wiki/Development

My personal website.

Devinci

Yeah sorry for the disrespect, didn't really mean it (didn't know how to formulate it differently). But if I understood correctly the only thing we need to proceed with the creating of an account system is the common agreement of devs about how to implement it. Community is a very important factor but not for this exactly? idk

I'LL JUST PRETEND LIKE I KNOW YOU DON'T MEAN IT DISRESPECTFULLY!

I think it depends on how exactly you look at it. I think it was @Learath2 who said that basically admins, devs and community must share the same idea and therefore it's actually really important to know about the community wishes and needs. (edited)

1

Ryozuki

and that we dont have new devs

we do have new devs

heinrich5991

we do have new devs

regular new devs*

15:02

devs that stay

robyte

15:03

and probably more

well robyte been around a bit now

15:03

also we lost some old devs

15:03

like eeee or HMH

I think the project looks healthy currently

it looks yes

15:03

just not enough for this feature? xd

I think it is healthy, currently

15:03

ah

Draggory

Given that the entire game is community based*, why wouldn't the community be important for this? If the devs put something in that no one really likes then it renders it kinda useless no?

Because honestly I don't think users really care about if the system is centralised, or not. or if they will realise their communication will secured or not, and a big etc. I would trust the judgement of the guys who implement it and are supposed to be more knowledgeable than most of us in this aspect. Community comes into play when adding features that they can see

1

Freezy

I'LL JUST PRETEND LIKE I KNOW YOU DON'T MEAN IT DISRESPECTFULLY!

I think it depends on how exactly you look at it. I think it was @Learath2 who said that basically admins, devs and community must share the same idea and therefore it's actually really important to know about the community wishes and needs. (edited)

look whatever, I'll just say a last thing before going. The idea was adding accounts, and most of us ( admins, devs and community) agree with it. if Somehow you are an expert at making account systems go at it and give all your propositions. I'm not really. So I'll trust them

Devinci

look whatever, I'll just say a last thing before going. The idea was adding accounts, and most of us ( admins, devs and community) agree with it. if Somehow you are an expert at making account systems go at it and give all your propositions. I'm not really. So I'll trust them

I think we terribly misunderstood each other but whatever

‍♂️

Cøke

u cant compare it, ddnet is way bigger

You can compare it. DDNet and KoG shares the same playerbase, currently we have 100k "registered" names and ddnet 800k. Not all of those names are unique players, some of this names do have 0 points or 1 point. You have to consider how you want the transition from non-accounted to accounted

Avolicious

You can compare it. DDNet and KoG shares the same playerbase, currently we have 100k "registered" names and ddnet 800k. Not all of those names are unique players, some of this names do have 0 points or 1 point. You have to consider how you want the transition from non-accounted to accounted

im not sure

15:11

only one map has more players than whole kog

15:11

sometimes kog has more but yeah its one map

So you assume that every name is a different player?

im talkin about active playing

Theoretically spoken, if I Multimapeasy with 3 different names, those are 3 different players

not ranks

Cøke

im talkin about active playing

The only one who is currently able to outperform KoG and DDNet on 1 server with the same map is @fokkonaut, because he did 128 players support

cyberFighter

i dont think you can dm webhooks/bridges?

can you explain me how chillerdragon works in more stupid terms

Avolicious

The only one who is currently able to outperform KoG and DDNet on 1 server with the same map is @fokkonaut, because he did 128 players support

idc about all this, just saying

15:14

i also never understand why ppl play block

‍♂️

1

Because some devs offers such service

but whats the most visited kog server?

15:15

without A ?

Avolicious

The only one who is currently able to outperform KoG and DDNet on 1 server with the same map is @fokkonaut, because he did 128 players support

I think he's referring to online players on all servers in the category,

Image attachment

Image attachment

Cøke

i also never understand why ppl play block

‍♂️

Next time try to keep personal preferences out of a discussion like this xd It's about the technical part that makes this possible, not block itself.

Draggory

I think he's referring to online players on all servers in the category,

yes like that but for one map

Draggory

I think he's referring to online players on all servers in the category,

And now a statistic without dummys, please

Avolicious

And now a statistic without dummys, please

You make a good point

15:17

I do think the chn server makes a bulk of it though

15:18

Granted, idk how many chn dummies there are

with accounts we could know dummies more or less iirc

poggers2

1

15:18

actually rn we could but it would be ez to bypass

Ryozuki

actually rn we could but it would be ez to bypass

Accounts dont offer protection against this

true

But it adds proper moderation

why is he saying stop discussing this? xd

He scared of accounts

not that

well ill talk about what i want as long as i dont break rules

15:20

idk what hidden motives u have

idiot

troll

2

ok xd

what to do if you get a ban for a bind (kfg) [I wrote it myself!] which changes colors and it says cheat client in the ban (edited)

A bind that changes your tee color's wont ban you as far as I'm aware, so it's probably not that. Open a ticket on #✉-create-a-ticket if you want to appeal for your ban (edited)

Devinci

A bind that changes your tee color's wont ban you as far as I'm aware, so it's probably not that. Open a ticket on #✉-create-a-ticket if you want to appeal for your ban (edited)

am i stupid or does that sentence make so sense? xd

Nah not just you

it deosn't make sense

I updated my ddnet-libs but it gave same error

Image attachment

Ali Furkan

I updated my ddnet-libs but it gave same error

you dont need to install the vulkan sdk

I did ?

i mean you screenshot includes the directory called VulkanSDK

Ali Furkan

I updated my ddnet-libs but it gave same error

anyway can you take a screenshot of your ddnet-libs directory

Image attachment

ok that looks fine

20:45

so in the directory in your screenshot is there no glslang.exe?

there is

20:45

I checked

20:45

alsa Validator is ok

ah btw

20:45

did u not select 64bit generator

I did I guess

20:46

wait a sec

bcs it wants to install it to 32bit program files

20:46

that's a bit weird

I didnt understand

20:47

what should I do

delete the current config and try again with 64-bit

I did

Image attachment

20:48

it gave same error

Ali Furkan

I did

ah ok

20:49

is the install path still x86?

path of what ?

send new screenshot

20:49

when it failed

Image attachment

20:50

same

can u copy paste the error?

20:50

as text

9.55 KB

very useful error message xD

20:52

not your fault

20:53

did you install vulkansdk only for ddnet?

yes I installed for it, but I installed all things about vulkan

20:53

libs exc.

do you want you client to have vulkan support?

no

then just disable it

20:54

it's one of the red options

I triede but dont know how

20:54

wait

20:58

Configuration succed, and I clicked "Generate"

nice

20:58

now u can press open project

but when I click to open project anything doesnt open

look in the build dir

20:59

if there is a visual studio project

@Jupstar ✪ Iam ashamed but.. which one

Image attachment

ddnet.sln

Image attachment

did u install rust?

yes

21:19

is access about my user profile ?

ah u also need to set ddnet as start project

21:20

ALL_BUILD is not startable

I understand nothing justatest

justatest

open the project list

21:22

project overview

21:22

whatever its called

21:23

"Solution Explorer" it's called apparently

and

rightclick ddnet

21:24

"as start project"

21:24

cant help you better, i dont use VS sry

21:25

that's what i did 5 years ago

thanks for all

since then i didnt start it

no problem I understood

21:25

probably be fine from now on

21:25

said at the end :D

@Jupstar ✪ I did btw. it is working

21:33

I WANNA HUG YOU

21:34

all the ideas in my mind would blow my head

21:34

now I have opportunity to do whatever I want

21:34

my fingers... shaking...

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