DDraceNetwork - developer

the spambots?

12:01AM

so did deen

:O

I'm pretty sure they just copied every name under https://ddnet.org/staff/

2023-11-05 02:03:31 I chat: *** 'TsFreddie' has left the game (You have been banned (spambotlikedeen))

Voxel

looks so fun

ye, i'm blown away while i was finding something that could work with sfx designing other than just using a standard daw. this looks pretty insane for non-tempo based effects

apparently blockhead's rendering is done with godot

iirc they were doing roby before deen

it's probably just randomly chosen

ddnet-maps

[ddnet-maps:master] 1 new commit

75d5cea A AipKoule - ddnet-maps

pTarget->TakeDamage((vec2(0.f, -1.0f) + Temp) * Strength, g_pData->m_Weapons.m_Hammer.m_pBase->m_Damage,
                m_pPlayer->GetCID(), m_Core.m_ActiveWeapon);

how to determine which direction the player pressed for this function?

He11o, wor1d

pTarget->TakeDamage((vec2(0.f, -1.0f) + Temp) * Strength, g_pData->m_Weapons.m_Hammer.m_pBase->m_Damage,
                m_pPlayer->GetCID(), m_Core.m_ActiveWeapon);

how to determine which direction the player pressed for this function?

that's not how hammer works

12:46PM

hammer checks which entities are possible hittable in the dir you are looking

12:47PM

but if u hit it, the cursor dir doesn't really matter

Robyt3

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #7417 Add mode selection to color picker popups (RGBA, HSVA, HSLA)

Add buttons for selecting the color mode (RGBA, HSVA, HSLA) in color picker popups in menu and editor. Previously, the color picker popups always showed the color components in HSVA. Now the mode can be switched so the components are shown in either RGBA or HSLA. The hex color code is always RGBA, same as before. In the editor, the RGBA mode is used per default, to prevent any loss of information due to color conversions, as the map format stores RGBA values. In the menus, the HSVA mode is...

github-merge-queue[bot]

[ddnet:master] 2 new commits

3e5a288 Support writing maps with more items/data - Robyt3 dfb99e1 Merge pull request #7415 from Robyt3/Datafile-Writer-Unlimited - Jupeyy

1:13PM

Jupeyy

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #7415 Support writing maps with more items/data

github-merge-queue[bot]

[ddnet:master] 3 new commits

91e6fca Add parameter Enabled to DoButton_PopupMenu - Robyt3 78217c4 Add mode selection to color picker popups (RGBA, HSVA, HSLA) - Robyt3 5090532 Merge pull request #7417 from Robyt3/UI-ColorPicker-RGBA - Jupeyy

1:31PM

Jupeyy

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #7417 Add mode selection to color picker popups (RGBA, HSVA, HSLA)

1:31PM

Jupeyy

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue closed: #7409 Editor PointPopup displays invalid hex color value

why these spambots don't get banned by some sort of text match?

accounts are the only way

2

? my idea was: every message has to go through the server and therefore can be filtered before it is send to the other clients

while i agree, nobody seems interested in having a halfway solution like this

4:16PM

if it was proposed it probably wouldnt be merged

doesn't seem like such a bad idea. a message could be identified by a number of factors like content, lenght, sender, and idk. it's not necessarily a halfway solution

what if there are false flags

4:22PM

ddnet 1984

Voxel

what if there are false flags

it's not necessarily a problem. if some spam is detected it could just mute the user or just not sending that message to other players. Best case scenario there aren't any x)

guys i didn't mean a full automatic solution: just adding a pattern by mod/admin on an as-needed basis

well, that would be easily avoidable and probably end up as beeing useless. So I would understand it not beeing merged

user bans are easily avoidable too, but it works somehow …

they do not work... :/ The ones who really should get banned aren't

^^

Voxel

accounts are the only way

Not really, accounts wouldn't solve spambots for very long, the spammers could just make new accounts

Ewan

if it was proposed it probably wouldnt be merged

I can merge it just so everyone sees how fast it gets bypassed and stops talking about a filter

Robyt3

Not really, accounts wouldn't solve spambots for very long, the spammers could just make new accounts

not if the accounts are tied to something like email. i feel like this has been said a billion times

So they can make new emails, how does that stop anyone?

emails are hard to make

I have infinite emails addresses with one gmail

4:34PM

no

4:35PM

maybe if it was tied to a phone number

4:35PM

but nobody wants that

Tied to SSN, real consequences for real dickheads

Robyt3

but nobody wants that

that's for sure

well it seems to be working for kog

i think kog is tied to phone numbers ? not sure

Ewan

well it seems to be working for kog

because their account system is far from beeing automated (edited)

4:36PM

mods need to manually accept new players

why would the account system need to be completely automated

Ewan

why would the account system need to be completely automated

Are you going to be the one manually accepting the accounts? That's so kind of you offering your time like that

well, ddnet has a fairly big playerbase...

it would not be too much for mods to handle

4:40PM

also having a hard time keeping a serious conversation when everything you're saying is masked in sarcasm learath

well, and for asian players? as far as I know we don't have that many mods for them...? And getting some english speakers talk with chinese ones may not be the bestest idea (edited)

4:42PM

it's still a burden for mods + players

idk, it seems worth it to prevent spammers and blockers and whatnot

vouch system?

What happens when someone spams 8000 account registrations?

then they get denied

Like every player can vouch for 1 or 2 players

4:43PM

and each player needs 2 vouches to be seen by the automantion or smt

Mr.Gh0s7

vouch system?

Also thought about such a system

Mr.Gh0s7

and each player needs 2 vouches to be seen by the automantion or smt

then just 2 randoms need to get accepted somehow and whole system is useless

Devinci

then just 2 randoms need to get accepted somehow and whole system is useless

Add some spice to it. If a vouched player gets a punishment, the voucher gets half the punishment

1

Mr.Gh0s7

Like every player can vouch for 1 or 2 players

if that works it will kill the userbase ^^

Ewan

then they get denied

What is the advantage to having the mods in the middle? There is no way they go through and deny 8000 applications. So we are assuming an automated system can catch and deny these

4:45PM

Or we get some money to hire staff

Avolicious

Add some spice to it. If a vouched player gets a punishment, the voucher gets half the punishment

yeah well. what I meant by that is, 2 guys spammers get accepted for some reason. From that point it's a matter of time before there's thousands of spammers accepted. a punishment wont do anything

Learath2

What is the advantage to having the mods in the middle? There is no way they go through and deny 8000 applications. So we are assuming an automated system can catch and deny these

or they can just expire

4:45PM

and not be explicitly allowed

but Ewan, how do you know those 8k applications need to be denied

Avolicious

Add some spice to it. If a vouched player gets a punishment, the voucher gets half the punishment

I think there's merrit to that. If the vouching player gets a punishiment the player that he has vouched to should be in question

Devinci

mods need to manually accept new players

Its just for the start

4:47PM

If you want a full automated system, you need a fresh start. But using existing stats, its impossible to add on top without having some sort of manual review

I know where the shader code is, but where is the shader LOGIC located? I want to see if I can decrypt it and make something out of it

wdym

Ewan

or they can just expire

How will mods even use this system? A stream of applications are coming in, how will they spot the legit ones in it?

i hope it'd be fairly obvious

even if it's faily obvious and only takes 1 second per application, that's a few hours to go through 8000 applications (edited)

it's like you don't even read

Avolicious

Its just for the start

I wasn't criticising it. I just think it's a big reason why you have no spammers. Does the kog community also have diehards spammers/ddosers? If so it would be interesting to see how are you doing after automation takes place

Learath2

How will mods even use this system? A stream of applications are coming in, how will they spot the legit ones in it?

Just accept the legit/known players (I am talking about the vouch system btw) and they can vouch for 1-3 friends of them that way you don't have to manually go through them (atleast not as much)

Honestly the only way I see something that manual working out is if we just pray to god that the spammer spamming messages wont spam account applications

Devinci

I wasn't criticising it. I just think it's a big reason why you have no spammers. Does the kog community also have diehards spammers/ddosers? If so it would be interesting to see how are you doing after automation takes place

Accounts dont stop ddos

Learath2

Honestly the only way I see something that manual working out is if we just pray to god that the spammer spamming messages wont spam account applications

Captchas would be a good start tho

I was just wondering if you had those kinda players x). I don't play kog thatoften

Mr.Gh0s7

Just accept the legit/known players (I am talking about the vouch system btw) and they can vouch for 1-3 friends of them that way you don't have to manually go through them (atleast not as much)

So no new players ever again except by vouch? Good luck convincing anyone that's a good idea

Learath2

So no new players ever again except by vouch? Good luck convincing anyone that's a good idea

hmm you gotta a point

Ouch

Avolicious

Captchas would be a good start tho

I just wouldn't put humans in the middle of the process, that's like an extremely obvious bottleneck to overwhelm

4:52PM

Captchas, some other hard pow, it has to be automated, the more manual the process the less robust it is to any sophisticated attacker

Mr.Gh0s7

hmm you gotta a point

ig it's just gotta be as hard for the spammers to make accounts as for humans/mods to detect them

No harm in adding a simple spam filter and hoping the attacker is just not smart enough to bypass it is not the worst idea. If anyone wants to help that's what I would do

4:58PM

Or if you want to get more mileage out of it something like a fuzzy checksum based spam detection would last a little longer

5:05PM

Or regex filters that can be added through rcon so mods can filter it out, that'd also be not the worst idea

that's actually quite smart as it should take more time for the spammer to avoid it than for the mods + the dev to make it?

yes, efficient use of time and mods are much smarter than whatever naive algorithm we can think of

Ewan

well it seems to be working for kog

not really. all my friends couldn't create accounts there. they are relatively new, but they do have a few finishes. there are too few non-account servers on kog for us to vote the easy maps that we need, so I straight up can't play kog with my friends

5:41PM

their applications were first rejected, then ignored and at one point no new applications were possible due to discord channel count limits or smth

messed up

5:47PM

their problem is relying on discord

chat captcha would be good for spam

5:54PM

i think some other games have it

Ewan

well it seems to be working for kog

the new kog account system is a dumpster fire lmfao

yea

5:56PM

it's not awesome

5:56PM

but it's working fundamentally

bad user experience = doesn't work

Im not even sure which issue you try to solve with accounts?

7:16PM

What Spam? In the Chat? That should be a non issue in the first place. Every client can mute other clients so everyone can build their own spam filter or mute players if needed.

would you mute deen kek

if you let the spammers stay you are pretty much just encouraging ddnet lobbies to become malware spreading spaces

7:24PM

the average user is not gonna think to or want to mute these ppl

7:24PM

it's just gonna reflect negatively on ddnet

7:24PM

wow these ppl obviously don't care about their players

If i get annoyed by his messages yes

Replying to @Mr.Gh0s7 would you mute deen

but it's not deen that's what I mean

7:26PM

if you mute the spambot you also mute deen

Depends on how I mute

7:26PM

I usually mute per id and only rarely the names

the bots reconnect every 2 or 3 minutes

7:27PM

gl keeping up

I see that point. If that is so important than you can still make spamming impossible rather than optimizing the punishment for it. Punishing behavior in games seems wrong to me. Why not change the game to disallow the behavior.

Replying to @Ewan it's just gonna reflect negatively on ddnet

7:29PM

Oh i have not seen those. But then yea I would go for their names or message content depending on what is more consistent

Replying to @Mr.Gh0s7 the bots reconnect every 2 or 3 minutes

Yes the goal is to make the spamming impossible in the first place

chillerdragon

Oh i have not seen those. But then yea I would go for their names or message content depending on what is more consistent

ddnet client cannot mute players based on message content

Wait hold on

8:57PM

I managed to make sound happen when you open and close the top menu! If I merge this I will change the sounds, but for now I'm using Terraria's sound effects as a placeholder.

Kaffeine

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #7418 UX: Store the list of muted players (like we store the friends list)

Use-case: a player is stalkering another player — follow on the servers and sends insults. Mute by name could help (until the 'follower' evalute and also change the name every time but it'll make 'friends' function useless (the follower friends won't be able to find him/her).

idk if im a big fan of having sounds in the ui

8:58PM

maybe if they are off by default

Ewan

maybe if they are off by default

yeah. just like the fucking sit pose

8:59PM

nice try

wat

when there was the whole sit pose arguement people wanted an option with it being off by default

8:59PM

which is like... why even bother

it would be silly to deny a feature that some people obviouslyt want

9:00PM

but if the amount of people that want it is not the majority than it can just be off by default

9:00PM

you don't want to go against the average user's wishes

9:02PM

also where would these sounds come from

9:03PM

afaik all sounds in the game so far are from teeworlds

i.. make them?

how are u gonna make them match

Voxel

I managed to make sound happen when you open and close the top menu! If I merge this I will change the sounds, but for now I'm using Terraria's sound effects as a placeholder.

Thanks, I hate it. When PR?

1

Ewan

how are u gonna make them match

why so many questions

is there a problem

Ewan

Yes the goal is to make the spamming impossible in the first place

Can DDNet organize a (preferably public) blocklist? The spammers change IPs but I don't believe that they can afford enough resources to deal with global bans. Spammer bot joins a DDNet server => the server submits the IP to the global ddnet blocklist => all other servers pull the update and also ban that IP.

i would love that

Ewan

is there a problem

??

i had collected a few IPs in the past and asked noby if he would share his but got no response

oh well. i guess its just another thing to stack onto ddnet 2.0

what is the point in not sharing the banlist anyway

9:05PM

literally just makes the rest of the community suffer

Ewan

i had collected a few IPs in the past and asked noby if he would share his but got no response

I also have a list but it does not really help for a fellow lonely server.

yeah

Voxel

oh well. i guess its just another thing to stack onto ddnet 2.0

i don't think it's uncool i just think it'd be the first introduction of any foreign sounds and it would be for something as minor as the menu

9:07PM

just seems sorta weird

Voxel

I managed to make sound happen when you open and close the top menu! If I merge this I will change the sounds, but for now I'm using Terraria's sound effects as a placeholder.

@bencie

ohh nice lol

9:13PM

i used to have a soundpack which was mostly terraria sounds

9:14PM

for like pistol and hammer swing etc

Kaffeine

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #7419 Infrastructure: Add and maintain a shared blocklist with spammer IPs

Invent a service to maintain a "shared blocklist of IP". Wanted API capabilities: 1. Submit spammer IPs (if you allow only your own DDNet servers to add IPs it would be good enough; if you'll let the community to submit IPs then it 'll be great). 2. Get the current list of blocked IPs with info "IP, added_timestamp, added_by_id (e.g. ddnet), expiration (optional?)". Maybe we'd need a pagination. This is a DRAFT of the idea, feel free to edit the description in the process of the ...

Voxel

I managed to make sound happen when you open and close the top menu! If I merge this I will change the sounds, but for now I'm using Terraria's sound effects as a placeholder.

good one

9:29PM

What happend

spammers joined advertising leaked nude discord servers

chillerbot-ux can :p

Replying to @Ewan ddnet client cannot mute players based on message content

cool?

9:30PM

How do accounts make spamming impassible?

Replying to @Ewan Yes the goal is to make the spamming impossible in the first place

cuz spammers can't get accounts

Can they then also not play?

i guess you aren't familiar with the spammers we're talking about

No

9:32PM

But I assume they are owned by someone who also plays the game

they're not real people. they're fake clients set up on a server somewhere that just join and spam their preprogrammed message advertising a bot client

9:32PM

it's hard to ban them by name because they are always changing

9:32PM

at first they were colors

9:33PM

now they seem to take a random pick of all admin/moderator names

So you want to use accounts to make bans stronger and not make spamming impossible

well these spammers could never get accounts in the first place because in theory they'd be backed by some sort of other identifier that everyone has 1 of

9:33PM

like an email

Then they use their email?

the spam bots are not real people

Ewan, has Robyt said before, emails aren't hard to make. Accounts by themselves wont solve anything (edited)

they are hard to make

Are they created by AI?

???

9:35PM

harder than the average spammer is willing to put effort into i'd bet

I assumed the bots were operated by a human

making an email requires manual human intervention (edited)

Ewan

harder than the average spammer is willing to put effort into i'd bet

I'd bet you differently

Yea same manual intervention it took the spammer to download the game and code the spambots

9:36PM

Now there is one extra step to login

9:36PM

Which every player would have to go to. And also the spammer can do.

I don't know that much about mails. But I'd trust Robyt when he said he had endless email adresses with one gmail

I still do not see how you intent not giving out accounts to malicious people

who is rearranging channels xd

This is the exact same topic we had a few hours ago

I assume he meant the + feature of mail. Could be solved with one regex. But yea you can also register 100 gmails

Replying to @Devinci I don't know that much about mails. But I'd trust Robyt when he said he …

given the account system is fully automated, which isn't even guaranteed, it'd go something like this spammer makes a new email and joins the server to spam with their single allowed client at a time account gets banned within minutes, and by extension, so does the email the spammer then has to create a new email for every client they want to have join & spam

Not really I’m trying to understand how ewan thinks that accounts are not used for harder punishment but instead make spamming impassible

Replying to @Devinci This is the exact same topic we had a few hours ago

unless they're hosting their own mailserver, emails typically require captchas to create. and it's easy to detect burner emails anyway

Yes you just proof my point. Spamming is still possible. Just punished harder using accounts.

Replying to @Ewan given the account system is fully automated, which isn't even guaranteed…

9:39PM

I suggest to not punish spammers at all but Filter the chat instead.

if accounts have to be manually verified then it would be very very hard

To Spam twice

9:40PM

But you still have to be caught once

Just ban all players and i can ensure you the problem is solved

chillerdragon

I suggest to not punish spammers at all but Filter the chat instead.

and that's where Learath ideas come in. "Or regex filters that can be added through rcon so mods can filter it out, that'd also be not the worst idea"

And then you life ban a player from playing the game for using the chat

Ewan

if accounts have to be manually verified then it would be very very hard

either by moderator, or by vouch system, or by some sort of automated system which checks how many accounts have been created by that ip + with emails on that domain + with emails whose names are gibberish + whatever

Yes that makes way more sense than accounts

Replying to @Devinci and that's where Learath ideas come in. "Or regex filters that can be ad…

chillerdragon

And then you life ban a player from playing the game for using the chat

there is #✉-create-a-ticket in the rare event that someone has a false positive

9:41PM

i still do not think you understand how the spambots work

9:41PM

this is not a real person

9:41PM

the only info we have on the person behind it is that he owns a vps at some ip lol

@Ewan: technically allowing spam and then punishing it is still a bad process.

nobody is allowing spam

It purely depends on the motivation of the spammer anyway

I mean technically. You can spam in the chat. If that wasn’t possible due to ratelimits and filters. The problem would be solved.

sure but the filters would need to adapt

As said depends on motivation of them

Anyways. I doubt that if accounts ever become a thing it will be to stop spammers x)

It’s like saying. Everyone who moves in freeze tiles gets banned. Instead of locking movement.

It's same for accounts

chiller what are u talking about

9:43PM

this is not for ppl who message too many times

But you both could team up and provide a solution xd

this is for ppl who promote a bot client

I don’t like your approach

9:44PM

Bans are bad

a bot client whose virustotal scan very strongly suggests it's intentional malware

Just Filter bot ads

whats the tea this time

He wants to use accounts to ban people from the game

Xd

9:44PM

Rage bait

i mean i would happily collect chinese ids just to ban them

9:45PM

Xd

especially the ppl who keep lureing ppl out and doxxing our players

9:47PM

the leak of national database made doxxing entry barrier so low that kids are doing it for cool factors

Let's just do lan events from now on

oh man i would love to host lan events

yes!

In chiller Villa

its just not legally viable

9:48PM

here at least

9:49PM

ive been wanting to do a lan fng tournament since 2014

9:49PM

9:50PM

partially bcs ppl keep calling me bot and i want to destroy them in person (back in 2014 i mean)

in jopstis big garden

Replying to @Jupstar ✪ In chiller Villa

9:50PM

Outdoor lan best

also my coughing came back this weekend

Why

Replying to @TsFreddie its just not legally viable

i tried to eat healthier yesterday and i felt asleep at noon

9:51PM

wake up 5pm. then fell asleep at 11pm again

Yes healthy food is the worst

chillerdragon

Why

illegal gathering is a criminal offense

9:52PM

A lan party?

9:52PM

With friends?

9:52PM

Or you wanted a big event?

with enough ppl probably

yeah, what's considered "illegal gathering"

like 10+

I know a few guys who would have big problems Shrugeg

I always thought I’m western brain washed. And china could be chill. But Fred you make it sound no fun.

im probably exaggerating

I See

like if you eat out with a whole classroom of 45 ppl is probably fine

How legal is it for you to complain about china in this discord?

but i dont think getting 10 ppl online to a place to play a unregistered video game is a good look

chillerdragon

How legal is it for you to complain about china in this discord?

i dont mind dying

mood

speaking of complaining. someone in other discord did once link our irclogs and says he found my work info and tried to threat me

9:57PM

9:58PM

i dont think a google search is that threatening

lmfao

imma get some breakfast

one day fred is gonna disappear from the internet

10:04PM

and we will know he's in prison for 200 years for unlicensed internet use

10:04PM

among various other china crimes

i could disappear rn if you want

no thx

WTF

can chiller see discord stickers

probably not

chillerdragon

his taskbar is so flashing rn

~~chillerdragondeeznuts~~

10:11PM

apparently they made QR codes longer

10:11PM

youtube recommendation is weird

10:12PM

https://www.qrcode.com/en/codes/rmqr.html

rMQR Code | QRcode.com | DENSO WAVE

Code that can be generated with either square modules or rectangular ones. Can be printed as a turned-over code, black-and-white inversion code or dot pattern code (direct part marking).

TsFreddie

Click to see original message

idk

VoxelDoesCode

[ddnet/ddnet-data-svg] Issue closed: #46 WIP: Several GUI elements

10:59PM

VoxelDoesCode

[ddnet/ddnet-data-svg] Issue closed: #46 WIP: Several GUI elements

New spammer IP: 178.66.145.127, now they use ddnet version 170312

11:58PM

Use sv_banned_versions 170312,170399 to auto kick the bots.