DDraceNetwork - off-topic

Ewan

have we actually tried using a different gfx backend

didnt he already try that and it worked? seems like they are just trying to make it work on vulkan

12:11AM

unless im misreading convo i didnt really read much and dont know a lot on this shit anyway kek

Idk that’s why i asked

12:18AM

i just think that if it’s happening on both vulkan drivers then it could be a higher level bug in ddnet

12:19AM

but it seems like the bug is within the vulkan library itself. unless i’m mistaken

12:19AM

it may also be a bug in the vulkan graphics implementation

12:22AM

12:22AM

is this part possible 2p

12:22AM

most skillz maps are designed to be 3p but i can still beat them 2p

12:23AM

but this one seems rly nuts

the answer is No

Ewan

have we actually tried using a different gfx backend

The idea was to check if, when both use Mesa software renderer and same config if both get the bug Which apparently is not the case. So it might be a driver bug after all

Jupstar ✪

but even with intel, u should have more than 50 fps

How many should it be?

hundreds

6:42AM

Maybe i have shitty ahh cpu

it’s more gpu dependent

I dont even use gpu

6:42AM

I use cpu to run game

6:42AM

Dont i? :clueless: (edited)

Well u mean the gpu inside ur cpu

6:46AM

But it's still a GPU, just a integrated one

Oh, yeaaah

6:46AM

And its shitty

Yes, but u should have around 500-1000 fps in entities even with a bad gpu

6:47AM

I've seen that in gentoo u can somehow use a newer mesa version

6:47AM

I'd highly recommend try to update it and see if that makes it better

6:48AM

Even the stable version is newer than yours

6:48AM

So your system is outdated

a gg

6:49AM

at least it works pepeW

6:49AM

not that good

6:49AM

but it does

I'd actually even try the yellow version, if u can easily do that

6:49AM

That's the one I use

Jupstar ✪

I'd actually even try the yellow version, if u can easily do that

yea

6:50AM

and spotify doenst work, great

Did have 50 fps before we did the stuff yesterday?

6:57AM

Or much more

Jupstar ✪

Did have 50 fps before we did the stuff yesterday?

i had like ~150

6:59AM

but now game feels much better

6:59AM

idk why

Anyway. Update drivers, afterwards go ingame settings->graphics and take a screenshot

i... installed ig 0_o

7:11AM

MilkeeyCat

i... installed ig 0_o

Select Intel or auto in graphics cards, then restart

ok and

Then check fps

7:14AM

Also would be nice to see output of f1 again.. purple text

~250

7:14AM

Is the bug on purple panic finally gone?

lmfao

7:16AM

now i have at least 18 fps with entities off

7:16AM

before i had 6

Wtf

7:16AM

Does i3 allow fullscreen window?

yea

7:17AM

0_o

Btw do u compile with lto on?

no idea the hell is that kek

Well a compile flag

7:18AM

If we both use the same mesa... Software rendering and for me it works and for u its broken.. it basically has to be smth like that

do i have to turn on this myself

7:19AM

if so, how do i do it justatest

I had bugs with mesa when compiling ofast and lto. But i guess in my case it was the ofast causing problems ^^

-DIPO?

MilkeeyCat

do i have to turn on this myself

I dunno. But if it's on, it should be off instead xd

MilkeeyCat

-DIPO?

My point was about disabling it

i didnt use that shit

7:20AM

so its off

7:20AM

:D

Tbh just use the OpenGL backend for now. I've no idea wtf going on

xD

It simply makes no sense

Jupstar ✪

I had bugs with mesa when compiling ofast and lto. But i guess in my case it was the ofast causing problems ^^

lto is linkage related only. it could not cause such an issue

Ewan

lto is linkage related only. it could not cause such an issue

That's incorrect

7:21AM

It does a full program optimization

7:21AM

That's also why it's so insanely slow

7:23AM

I mean it is linking related. But its not just glewing the objects together

so what is it optimizing other than dead code that's missed in the compile-time optimization step

It treats all individual translation units as one. So it also optimizes loops etc

hmmm

We had few funny lto bugs in ddnet xd

7:26AM

it optimized away some calls which made the bug visible

Ewan

lto is linkage related only. it could not cause such an issue

it causes issues which is why u cant have global lto enabled in gentoo

Ewan

so what is it optimizing other than dead code that's missed in the compile-time optimization step

lto can do cross (static?) library optimizations iirc

8:00AM

in rust its rly helpful cuz its nearly always static linking

Ryozuki

in rust its rly helpful cuz its nearly always static linking

The best thing ever bout rust xd

8:07AM

Today on FFR

#developer

Lto = Link time optimization= optimizations at linking time(/linking stage)

xd

Just wanted to explain the word xd

Alex

Click to see attachment 🖼️

i loooove c++

2

Phasma

Ryozuki

Click to see attachment 🖼️

bruh

its only 5:30pm and ive already updated all packages

epic

MilkeeyCat

lmfao

i still wonder wtf going on here

Jupstar ✪

i still wonder wtf going on here

if i install nvidia proprietary drivers, will vulkan work on gpu?

vulkaninfo | grep driverInfo says Mesa 23.2.1-1 right?

MilkeeyCat

if i install nvidia proprietary drivers, will vulkan work on gpu?

yes

mh ok

2:27PM

so same version

Jupstar ✪

so same version

can i have low fps because im on laptop? 0_o

what is ur hardware

:p

you should get good fps

2:53PM

not amazing but at least like 250 on the gpu (edited)

but its fucking trash

it's not

2:53PM

that's a pretty good laptop

i mean fps xD

oh

2:53PM

lmfao

2:53PM

btw i have dedicated my dummy to the noble cause justatest

Ewan

that's a pretty good laptop

yea i like it owo

$points daddy

but i wish there was an amd gpu

why

2:53PM

so it can suck?

i could easily install right drivers pepeW

MilkeeyCat

:p

tbh it should be like 500fps minimum

2:54PM

i dunno wtf going on

bruh

can u turn off energy saving mode?

is there even such a thing? XD

2:55PM

googling time (edited)

MilkeeyCat

i could easily install right drivers pepeW

just follow the nvidia gentoo page. it's basically just setting your video cards envvar, emerging nvidia and re-emerging packages which care about video cards

2:55PM

very easy

2:55PM

then you will get mad fps

2:55PM

nouveau is horse shit

2:55PM

performance-wise at least

Ewan

just follow the nvidia gentoo page. it's basically just setting your video cards envvar, emerging nvidia and re-emerging packages which care about video cards

iirc the kernel module stuff is done for you

my phone from 2014, that runs on 32bit, reached 240 FPS with GLES 3

for me its just a black box :clueless: and i would like to never touch it

why

Ewan

why

hard

just follow the wiki page

so your 2020 laptop with much more power should do double xd

unfailable

MilkeeyCat

hard

gentoo is hard

true

2:57PM

i just copy random commands

2:57PM

and it works :D

then copy these random commands https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/NVIDIA/nvidia-drivers

2:57PM

which kernel are u using

2:58PM

dist ?

MilkeeyCat

:p

it says so

o yea

but i though i used compiled one

well good it should be even easier

MilkeeyCat

but i though i used compiled one

you did. you compiled the distribution kernel source

2:59PM

as opposed to downloading a precompiled kernel for your arch

2:59PM

but you didn't rice it out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO8HlVwaZw4

Chris Hendricks

How The Penguin Avatar Was Made

@Jupstar ✪ btw not all map is fukced xD

1

wtf is this

3:57PM

and why u only have 5 fps xD

3:57PM

and why is it not reproducable between software renderers

its getting laggy when i zoom out

3:57PM

:p

did u try fullscreen btw?

im playing fullscreen

MilkeeyCat

@Jupstar ✪ btw not all map is fukced xD

but this is not nvidia is it?

i gues..

Jupstar ✪

but this is not nvidia is it?

its not

MilkeeyCat

im playing fullscreen

fullscreen = no i3 visible

Jupstar ✪

fullscreen = no i3 visible

yea (edited)

MilkeeyCat

its not

if u got it installed, defs try it with nvidia

first i want to get my god damn 500 fps with intel gpu (edited)

3:59PM

whats the difference between these 3 thonk

intel = auto

3:59PM

auto just means pick the best

3:59PM

llvmpipe = run on your CPU.. like actually

4:00PM

run it as if no graphics cards exist

oh, thanks for explanation :D

4:01PM

(i thought llvmpipe is better lmao)

4:02PM

aaand i have ~200 fps, its not 500 :madge:

ya well try ur nvidia graphics card

4:03PM

which exists in your system for no other reason than this

4:03PM

also i think optimus is only supported on nvidia driver

but it looks so fukcing laggy

what

even tho it shows 200 fps

yea cuz of nouveau

4:03PM

the open source nvidia driver that comes with most linux kernels

but i dont even use

4:03PM

i use intel gpu

4:03PM

if you use the closed-source nvidia driver made by nvidia themselves it will perform so much better

4:04PM

and it is not hard to install

MilkeeyCat

@Jupstar ✪ btw not all map is fukced xD

Close blackhole

4:04PM

It will summon kraken

Ewan

also i think optimus is only supported on nvidia driver

if he has optimus, he is clamped to like 400 fps tho

4:05PM

optimus is evil

yea

4:05PM

but he has dgpu

tru

4:06PM

he should at least try

indeed

its laggy when i use fullscreen pepeW

4:12PM

its time to download drivers

did u know that u can do /map pp2

4:13PM

random ddnet facts #1

4:14PM

@MilkeeyCat btw what ddnet version do u even use

4:14PM

maybe it's not even a driver bug xd

4:15PM

@Jupstar ✪

LMAO

4:15PM

indeed

4:15PM

nightly is broken

4:15PM

@Robyt3 what do you have to say about that

i just pulled all changes

4:16PM

xd

17.3 (release) works

4:16PM

nightly from website broken

4:16PM

same commit as the screenshot

4:17PM

@Robyt3 is the texture leak fix in 17.3 already?

4:17PM

i have 0 overview xd

4:18PM

https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/compare/17.3...HEAD

@Robyt3 if u not doing any git bisect

4:31PM

i'd do it now

MilkeeyCat

did u try a stable ddnet?

MilkeeyCat

its 17.3

nice

4:32PM

but ur fps still suck

yes

4:32PM

and it really feels laggy

4:32PM

MilkeeyCat

:p

pin xd

Jupstar ✪

pin xd

for wat

4:33PM

if i was a mod, i would pin gigachad

xd

4:33PM

i just searched it

Jupstar ✪

i'd do it now

you do, I'm eating atm

already started

Robyt3

you do, I'm eating atm

bon appetite

Jupstar ✪

Click to see attachment 🖼️

how to see dis

ctrl shift d -> ctrl shift g

The map's freeze asset doesn't seem to have a name on latest master. Removing the asset and adding it again with a different name seems to fix the rendering issue.

furo

The map's freeze asset doesn't seem to have a name on latest master. Removing the asset and adding it again with a different name seems to fix the rendering issue.

oh weird

4:43PM

do u know the commit?

4:43PM

else i continue

I don't

furo

The map's freeze asset doesn't seem to have a name on latest master. Removing the asset and adding it again with a different name seems to fix the rendering issue.

I assume it's related to GetStringData changes

does it have to look like this justatest

my heartbeat fr

QUITTING PLEASE WAIT

4:46PM

7acf2c157317155a63f1af9f1f7561f666890fb0 is the first bad commit
commit 7acf2c157317155a63f1af9f1f7561f666890fb0
Author: Robert Müller <robytemueller@gmail.com>
Date:   Sun Aug 13 11:50:35 2023 +0200

    Add functions for reading/writing strings from/to datafile
    
    Simplify the usage of datafile reader and writer by adding utility functions to read and write zero-terminated UTF-8 strings.
    
    Improve validation of string data read from datafiles. It is ensure that string data is null-terminated, has no internal NUL-characters and is valid UTF-8.
    
    Fix loading of external sounds in the editor. The wrong path variable was being used, so the sound files would not be loaded from correct folder.
    
    Add tests for new datafile reader/writer functions.

4:46PM

email leak

Is that for the map rendering issue?

apparently

4:47PM

if i didnt fuck up git bisect xd

Then I'd assume the map has a broken string

would be funny

Jupstar ✪

7acf2c157317155a63f1af9f1f7561f666890fb0 is the first bad commit
commit 7acf2c157317155a63f1af9f1f7561f666890fb0
Author: Robert Müller <robytemueller@gmail.com>
Date:   Sun Aug 13 11:50:35 2023 +0200

    Add functions for reading/writing strings from/to datafile
    
    Simplify the usage of datafile reader and writer by adding utility functions to read and write zero-terminated UTF-8 strings.
    
    Improve validation of string data read from datafiles. It is ensure that string data is null-terminated, has no internal NUL-characters and is valid UTF-8.
    
    Fix loading of external sounds in the editor. The wrong path variable was being used, so the sound files would not be loaded from correct folder.
    
    Add tests for new datafile reader/writer functions.

remove name? xd

MilkeeyCat

remove name? xd

it's public anyway

4:47PM

in the git repo

oh

4:47PM

oke

MilkeeyCat

does it have to look like this justatest

I actually get this kind of extremely jagged fps graph aswell, I want to debug it one day to see why so inconsistent

Learath2

I actually get this kind of extremely jagged fps graph aswell, I want to debug it one day to see why so inconsistent

i mean he has 74 fps

4:48PM

xDD

Jupstar ✪

i mean he has 74 fps

HEY

4:48PM

it 200

oh true

dont you fucknoing dare (edited)

We don't really do any pacing but still it shouldn't be this inconsistent

its ping

Learath2

We don't really do any pacing but still it shouldn't be this inconsistent

i agree, but tbf, 200 fps on modern hardware is a joke too

Jupstar ✪

i mean he has 74 fps

I get very severe spikes, like 1700 to 500 to 1800 to 300

in entities

4:48PM

not design

ok, its time fore driver fr fr feelsbadman

@MilkeeyCat hey but at least u found a bug

4:49PM

an actual bug

4:49PM

gj

4:49PM

+1 for mod

4:49PM

im so good

4:49PM

holy fuck

@Jupstar ✪ what bug?

Ryozuki

@Jupstar ✪ what bug?

some null terminated string that would not happened with rust

4:50PM

yes

4:50PM

say it

https://open.spotify.com/track/0TxPln0uhql4ucFGk1XISM?si=d9d9835be1a9499a

4:50PM

gerdoe

Click to see attachment 🖼️

nice waifu

Jupstar ✪

some null terminated string that would not happened with rust

I KNEW IT

its a guy though

its always c++ fault

yes

What's the name of the map with the issue? Did you use highest console output level already? I think there should be an error message for the string (edited)

pp2

@Robyt3 /map pp2

4:51PM

when c++ enters the room:

4:51PM

https://youtu.be/LdgzsF_O7oI?t=55

Dslak

Moppy + Star Wars Theme = Floppy Vader's Theme

Yeah, it outputs editor/load: Error: Failed to read name of image 0.

So either the string is not valid utf-8, not null terminated, or has an internal null

i'm kinda impressed it worked before

gerdoe

Click to see attachment 🖼️

was probably just luck

4:52PM

xd

4:52PM

@Patiga when do u verify all maps

@Jupstar ✪ how does one completely uncap the fps?

now that we found a huge bug

like no throttling no nothing

Learath2

like no throttling no nothing

cl_refresh_rate 0; gfx_refresh_rate 0; gfx_vsync 0

Jupstar ✪

say it

it

Voxel

it

IT

4:53PM

rust is for IT

Put net_udp_recv in a thread justatest

@Jupstar ✪ is there a setting to disable the fps getting capped when I tab out?

Robyt3

Put net_udp_recv in a thread justatest

THAT'S THE FUCKING SPIRIT

Jupstar ✪

@Patiga when do u verify all maps

huh? All maps pass through my parser

at least one person understands it

Jupstar ✪

rust is for IT

information tech

Robyt3

Put net_udp_recv in a thread justatest

I think noby benched this and didn't find it making too much of a difference

Robyt3

Put net_udp_recv in a thread justatest

huh

Learath2

I think noby benched this and didn't find it making too much of a difference

on macos

4:54PM

lmao

4:54PM

it's a windows problem

4:54PM

won't help here btw

4:54PM

he is using linux

i wanna troll more but im still on shift

like all normal ppl

4:54PM

4:55PM

normal ppl like not Voxel

4:55PM

2% of normal ppl

xD

4:55PM

truest story

4:55PM

i am the normal one, you are all weird

furo

The map's freeze asset doesn't seem to have a name on latest master. Removing the asset and adding it again with a different name seems to fix the rendering issue.

send map pls ^^

Patiga

send map pls ^^

/map pp2

4:56PM

on ddnet servers

bizarre behaviour

4:56PM

but much more consistent than I remember

whats wrong with purple panic 2? on my client version it loads normally

4:57PM

sure its not a client issue?

Learath2

bizarre behaviour

hardware issue tho

Jupstar ✪

normal ppl like not Voxel

ik not normal but are You?

Patiga

whats wrong with purple panic 2? on my client version it loads normally

One of the image names appears to be invalid with the new validation I added for strings

Jupstar ✪

hardware issue tho

I'm fairly certain it has a similar shape on a rtx 6090 with i7 99999999k, why would the shape of the graph be any more consistent when we aren't doing any pacing? (edited)

mine is also pretty stable

ah, are you now checking for invalid utf-8?

4:58PM

I think there is plenty of that in ddnet maps

4:58PM

my graph

4:59PM

ignore the first half, was tabbed out

my library just replaces those with placeholder symbols (https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/string/struct.String.html#method.from_utf8_lossy)

Jupstar ✪

Click to see attachment 🖼️

Hm, I can only get it that consistent with a cap there

ah

5:01PM

yeah i only use gfx_refresh_rate cap

5:01PM

wait let me remove that

5:02PM

i used to have 10k fps WTF happened xd

5:02PM

did my CPU degrade or what xD

5:03PM

ah

5:03PM

the graph itself destroys 3k fps

5:03PM

xD

Robyt3

One of the image names appears to be invalid with the new validation I added for strings

apart from invalid utf-8, the strings which are stored in integers are sometimes fully zeroed out, which doesn't really make sense

Those strings aren't yet validated I think

5:03PM

On those stored in data items

ah, okay

Jupstar ✪

the graph itself destroys 3k fps

then id have -2800 fps justatest

MilkeeyCat

then id have -2800 fps justatest

xd

Jupstar ✪

i used to have 10k fps WTF happened xd

I'd be really curious about what those massive spikes you get are, at 6000fps not the end of the world, same spike at 200fps and you get far below acceptable

5:06PM

Why did the game take so long to render around those frames, especially since these happen on an empty server too

@MilkeeyCat friendly reminder

5:07PM

5:07PM

17k fps with a rtx 4090

5:07PM

by chillerdragon

Learath2

I'd be really curious about what those massive spikes you get are, at 6000fps not the end of the world, same spike at 200fps and you get far below acceptable

but it never dropped below 3k fps

Jupstar ✪

@MilkeeyCat friendly reminder

maybe one day, when i will be getting paid for writing shit code ill buy a pc. and i will show off with my fancy 1k fps

i guess it's not as massive as it looks

5:08PM

i mean

5:08PM

relatively its massive

Jupstar ✪

but it never dropped below 3k fps

As I said, not the end of the world at 6000 fps, but relatively you got almost half the framerate

but absolute not unplayable

DOTA TI

5:08PM

https://www.twitch.tv/dota2ti

Learath2

As I said, not the end of the world at 6000 fps, but relatively you got almost half the framerate

yeah

MAIN STAGE

5:08PM

What do we even do randomly that can double our render time?

@Learath2 but to be really honest with you.. i would not trust our ingame graph for this

It's just curious that's all, it's fine and playable for any machine but the toasters

and my laptop with intel gpu pepeW

Learath2

What do we even do randomly that can double our render time?

i am not really sure if it's caused by us

5:09PM

could be the OS doing smth or whatever

5:09PM

or we hit a unlucky sys call

5:09PM

or change a thread

5:10PM

i mean u the expert

My graph has even more spikes :D

Ryozuki

https://www.twitch.tv/dota2ti

gaben live rn

Jupstar ✪

@Learath2 but to be really honest with you.. i would not trust our ingame graph for this

Well I can feel the stutters too on my weaker machine, so there definitely is something happening there, so they are real. I wouldn't trust the graph on the actual amount either though

5:10PM

I wonder how actual game studios optimizing their games handle these kinds of things, there surely has to be some gpu level tooling to get proper numbers

well i played on my android phone and felt no lag

5:11PM

it seems kinda hardware dependent xD

5:11PM

pog

@Learath2 but i'd be interested too

Jupstar ✪

could be the OS doing smth or whatever

It could definitely be the OS stealing our execution, or maybe we are yielding it because of some unlucky lock or sth

Learath2

It could definitely be the OS stealing our execution, or maybe we are yielding it because of some unlucky lock or sth

with 16 cores, my OS actually does this anyway, to lower the pressure per core

5:13PM

probably also prevents overheating in a different way

I wonder if there are hints we should be using to ensure we yield the least possible amount

@Learath2 nice -n -20 ./DDNet "gfx_backend vulkan; gfx_render_thread_count 8;"

5:14PM

that's what i use

damn this arena is epic

5:16PM

@Ewan r u near seattle

yea i was looking at the venue and was rly amazed

5:17PM

no im not near seattle

5:18PM

esports is so funny

dota esports is different

5:19PM

league sucks

5:19PM

nothing more tense than a game at 60 mins on TI

it's all funny

its modern sports shows

5:21PM

i wish i was in that arena tho

5:21PM

but its quite expensive

yea

fakenews

5:31PM

xd

-935

5:31PM

ping has consistently doubled even when not in a lag spike

@Ryozuki can you send a screenshot of neofetch and output of this command readlink -f /usr/src/linux please justatest

(edited)

cant rn

poor nouns

?

Ryozuki

https://www.twitch.tv/dota2ti

q

Ewan

poor nouns

mine are they slash them (edited)

7:25PM

wait

what

wdym nouns

wtf is this part

Learath2

I wonder how actual game studios optimizing their games handle these kinds of things, there surely has to be some gpu level tooling to get proper numbers

they simply incorporate dlss/fsr into the game and call it a day

Ewan

wtf is this part

nvm

Wtf, now i lose the game™️ every day

murpi

they simply incorporate dlss/fsr into the game and call it a day

I miss the days of real frame pacing

1