DDraceNetwork - developer

DDraceNetwork

Development / developer

Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.org/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories — IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet

Between 2023-08-27 00:00:00Z and 2023-08-28 00:00:00Z

tarball?

if done right a tar has very little extra runtime cost

Voxel

Figured out how to package all the folders into ZIP files (edited)

you're using import zipfile?

heinrich5991

you're using import zipfile?

yes

and compressing a collection of PNGs with weak zip compression will not do much

same for zip btw. you can store data into zips uncompressed

yes but it's harder to make an uncompressed zip

00:01

if we just rely on the tool to pack it then a tarball would work fabulously

i dont think zipfile compresses by default

Ewan

if we just rely on the tool to pack it then a tarball would work fabulously

the problem is that tar files are less supported on windows

why would they need to be if the game is reading the archive in full, and the tool would pack and unpack as needed

Ewan

why would they need to be if the game is reading the archive in full, and the tool would pack and unpack as needed

because it's nice to analyse stuff with standard tools

i love reusing code from my personal projects

(this checks if a folder exists or not and if it does creates a numbered duplicate. there is a max so that it doesn't scan forever)

Image attachment

Voxel

i dont think zipfile compresses by default

that seems to be correct from my reading the docs

Now that we have a sort of, beta way to slice images, now we just have to completely rework the imaging system to impliment this yaaaaaay

00:06

I don't know how nor do I want to be responsible for this amount of backlash

good luck with that

I'm just rethinking about something. Should we REALLY package EVERYTHING into ZIPs, or have each category its own ZIP file? Because with each category being a ZIP we can still customize our ddnet experience easily

00:09

Plus, in the future when we can brodcast our weapons/particle skins we don't have to read FROM EVERY ZIP file, we can just open each respective Weapons and Particles ZIP

00:09

and maybe prodcast emotes too

00:09

it won't be a hard thing to impliment server sided, we just brodcast the name of the pack we use (most will be default)

00:10

ones with arrows can be broscasted

Image attachment

00:10

the rest is purely client sided

why does the server have to care about any of this

Because we have tee skins, right? Why not be able to share over Weapon skins too? Or Particles?

all the server knows about the tee skin is the name

00:11

and colors

00:11

it doesn't have the image or anything

00:11

server has no idea about any other sort of asset

Voxel

it won't be a hard thing to impliment server sided, we just brodcast the name of the pack we use (most will be default)

Refer to this comment:

that doesn't clear up why the server has to care about it

00:12

why would the client need to know what pack is being used by whoever else (edited)

Because we have tee skins, right? Why not be able to share over Weapon skins too? Or Particles?

that doesn't make any sense

00:13

it literally helps me understand it 0% better than the first time you said it

00:13

why are you trying to share any of this over the server

I'm literally giving you the answer.

why would you want that

It's going to be exactly like hoe tee skins are treated except it's with weapon skins

so it would show others' custom weapons?

Yes

hmm

Because this game is free and open source

that is kind of a neat idea but i am concerned about network load

00:15

well i guess it woudl be individual sprites and not the whole sheet

00:15

yeah sounds cool

But then again, it's only going to broadcast the NAME of the pack, like the tee skin

00:16

But that raises the problem, how loaded would the servers be holding This Many Assets

you'd just need to expand the api. like, skins.tw already holds other assets

00:16

and the ddnet dbs... no comment

One ZIP file of everything is like, 570 bytes for a default.

00:17

Not sure about the rest of the packs.

uhh

00:17

570 bytes??

yeah

00:18

want proof

00:18

lemme dm

and this zip contains what?

I FORGOT TO PACKAGE THE IMAGES!!!

00:20

AUGH IM SO DUMB

00:20

one second

yeah lmfao

00:20

sorry

00:20

570 bytes is like less than a paragraph

about a paragraph, I'd say

depends on the length of a paragraph

the paragraph lengths of https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Paragraph&oldid=1165204553 are

A paragraph (from Ancient Greek παράγραφος (parágraphos) 'to write beside') is a self-contained unit of discourse in writing dealing with a particular point or idea. Though not required by the orthographic conventions of any language with a writing system, paragraphs are a conventional means of organizing extended segments of prose.

cool

00:30

looks like 570 is pretty above average

Voxel

One ZIP file of everything is like, 570 bytes for a default.

Scratch that. ~500 KB, With images (edited)

sounds more like it

I'm going to post the link to the slicer in #6753

https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/6753

Implement zip/directory asset handling · Issue #6753 · ddnet/ddnet

DDNet should switch from texture atlasses to individual textures for each sprite. This will allow us to fall back to default textures if a game asset doesn't contain a new sprite. old text #672...

this works awesome now that i don't have to wait

01:14

using a custom status, i can put the file load thread into yield mode, and i check the mode of the other thread every frame on the main thread & only access when it's in yield mode. then when i'm done, i just put it back in run mode, and the other thread stops waiting

01:18

3

01:18

it's lockfree since where i was waiting on a mutex before i now just ignore it for this frame and check again later

01:19

the stutters near the end are just my poor laptop igpu i'm pretty sure

01:26

but the way it's integrated into the job system rn is kind of a mess

01:26

maybe m_Status from IJob should be protected instead of private? @Robyt3 thoughts?

01:27

i ended up changing the access specifier for my implementation but i don't like to do that, it would make more sense to be protected anyway

Ewan

maybe m_Status from IJob should be protected instead of private? @Robyt3 thoughts?

I think it'd be preferable if you introduced your own status variable for that

i guess that works too

01:34

just noticed that the .png is a part of the name, idk why, i made it not do that

i am Here

Image attachment

true

01:45

@daria now u can rock the xynthix pack again

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #7080 Record previous game ID in teehistorian

This allows to trace a complete server execution.

Checklist

[ ] Tested the change ingame
[ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
[ ] Tested in combination with possibly related configuration options
[ ] Written a unit test (especially base/) or added coverage to integration test
[ ] Considered possible null pointers and out of bounds array indexing
[ ] Changed no physics that affect existing maps
[ ] Tested the change with [ASan+UBSan or valgrind's memch...

also @Robyt3 i responded to your reviews from 3 days ago

03:10

resolved the ones i was able to fix immediately, left questions on the other ones (edited)

[ddnet-maps:master] 1 new commit

a498baa A Barbra Streisand_remake - ddnet-maps

Ewan

i got it to work, though it's definitely not linking against vulkan 1.1.0

That means it didn't work. Also you don't need the vk sdk GitHub ci also uses msvc Do you build in 32 bit?

No

Hmm weird cuz I was getting build issues before I hooked up the sdk iirc

there is no cl_port for dummy is there?

07:47

cl_dummy_port

07:47

nvm

07:47

i expected cl_port_dummy

07:48

would be so epic if the console search would be fuzzy. This fakin ordering of words always breaks my search results

Ya same

https://tube.zillyhuhn.com/video.php?t=ddnet_flawless_07_dummy.mp4&u=chiller

08:12

smooth dommi support for 0.7

omg so smooth

08:15

i'm sooo hyped

LMFAO

08:16

Awesome web btw

Image attachment

thanks

when 0.8 support

wot 0.8

08:21

0.8 doesnt release for another decade i assume

Does he even care to continue teeworlds development now that DDNet is a thing

08:21

I really don’t keep up

he being "oy" ?

08:22

oy doesnt really care about ddnet

Magnus

magnus xd

08:22

he gone

08:22

since forever

Damn

he was here once. i should have asked him to give me full access to teeworlds

Lol

08:22

Yeah I remember the desk pic

magnus top3 least influencal tw actors in 2023

08:23

#jopstiforpresident

at least he takes everything with humor

magnus?

yeah

cool

08:23

idk the guy

08:23

i only sent him a email once and he was nice

i wish we'd have the name "teeworlds" xd

unlike oy who ignores my email since motnhs

it's so much cooler

08:24

;~;

DUMMY DRACE RACE NETWORK

08:24

waz

cock

DUMMY DRAG RACE NET WORK?

dummy drag race network

xd

silly name tbh

08:24

we should just call it ball game

xd

08:24

ballracer

yea

i'd already be happy if i'd have teeuniverse

08:25

does someone still have contact to that guy?

who owned it?

necro smth

a

08:25

he gone

https://github.com/necropotame

necropotame - Overview

necropotame has 14 repositories available. Follow their code on GitHub.

08:26

yeah he gone, but can someone contact him? xD

08:26

i'd like to continue his dream

https://github.com/teeworldsmods2

TeeworldsMods - Keep The Great Necropotame's Great project.

We miss you! Necropotame! When will you come back! - TeeworldsMods - Keep The Great Necropotame's Great project.

Legend says it that if you spend enough time in infclass servers he shows up

xd

08:26

Embedded image

s/says/has/

or mr english

how to open pull request on github?

click green button

xd

Astral|Crying🌙

how to open pull request on github?

tbh, just search in the internet

08:28

nobody here is better in explaining than someone who wrote a blog and wasted his life to explain it

create fork

08:28

create branch

08:28

goto ddnet/ddnet

08:28

click green button

08:29

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxBwyEIeaRQ

Teeworlds programming #014 - github

1

08:29

@Astral|Crying🌙 full tutorial xd

Jupstar ✪

nobody here is better in explaining than someone who wrote a blog and wasted his life to explain it

lmfao

Don’t show a botter how to code please justatest

justatest

ChillerDragon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxBwyEIeaRQ

wtf is that length of video

08:36

troll

08:37

21 minutes explaining how do a pull request

has dev badge but doesn’t know how to code

Image attachment

08:37

doesn’t know how to open a pr rather

08:37

is it really that easy to get it

Ewan

has dev badge but doesn’t know how to code

discord =/ know all

i heard way back it was easy but

08:37

i didn’t know it was free

You just have to be in a discord developer group to get it, nothing more

@Astral|Crying🌙 i sent you the 3 steps it needs as text if you lack the fundamentals of what git and github is you can watch the lengthy video going into great detail

step 1: take adderall

08:39

step 2: watch the video

step 3 depression

ChillerDragon

@Astral|Crying🌙 i sent you the 3 steps it needs as text if you lack the fundamentals of what git and github is you can watch the lengthy video going into great detail

all is good bro

@Jupstar ✪ lerato might have a point you can try contacting the infclass fanatics like this @kaffeine dude he might know where necro hides

08:43

fuck dummy works half of the time

08:43

best debugging scenario

@Kaffeine where does necro hide, he also was a infclass fanatic like you

xd

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #7081 Update serbian.txt

Update Serbian translation (by Jurai!)

Checklist

[ ] Tested the change ingame
[ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
[ ] Tested in combination with possibly related configuration options
[ ] Written a unit test (especially base/) or added coverage to integration test
[ ] Considered possible null pointers and out of bounds array indexing
[ ] Changed no physics that affect existing maps
[ ] Tested the change with [ASan+UBSan or valgrind's memcheck...

Astral|Crying🌙

21 minutes explaining how do a pull request

wait lol maybe he wasn’t kidding https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/871738312849752104/1145277026786357248

discord link moment

09:08

i feel discriminated

09:08

as a irc minority

use matrix

09:08

it's to latest wiki msg

thank

chillerdragon: also let's face it u had to use discord

09:09

to change your name, after discord name change

09:09

we all know you use it secretly

wasnt that secret at all

09:15

i discussed in this very channel multiple times

09:15

and used heinrichs phone num to login back again :D

lol

but i didnt use it after

09:16

i quickly went tru ma dms

09:16

and closed dc

it's ok secret dc fan

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #7082 extract code from editor mapitems into separate files

Checklist

[x] Tested the change ingame
[ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
[ ] Tested in combination with possibly related configuration options
[ ] Written a unit test (especially base/) or added coverage to integration test
[ ] Considered possible null pointers and out of bounds array indexing
[ ] Changed no physics that affect existing maps
[ ] Tested the change with [ASan+UBSan or valgrind's memcheck](https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/#using-ad...

._.

09:21

im proud skype enjoyer

09:21

microsoft all the way

True

i love it when i have to look at ads between my chats

:D

09:22

i dont remember any ads

09:22

maybe you didnt buy skype pro

skype pro? glad i didnt buy it

xd

09:25

neither did i lol i dont think it existed

09:26

but fr i can not remember any ads

09:26

maybe it was a windows thing

09:26

back then i was mac enjoyer

ChillerDragon write @everyone

oh god

09:31

no

09:31

im nice person and would never trol

troll

2

Image attachment

09:39

who even made these epic icons xD

09:39

i like the puzzle item

09:39

puzzle tee

idk

09:40

i liked old better

09:40

especially #developer is a downgrade

the supporter should be maybe be for questions xd

09:40

anything better than default tee

09:40

hehe

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #7083 improve code style in proofmode, mapgrid and mapview

These were suggested in #7017.

Checklist

[x] Tested the change ingame
[ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
[ ] Tested in combination with possibly related configuration options
[ ] Written a unit test (especially base/) or added coverage to integration test
[ ] Considered possible null pointers and out of bounds array indexing
[ ] Changed no physics that affect existing maps
[ ] Tested the change with [ASan+UBSan or valgrind's memcheck](https:...

09:46

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #7084 Update darwin_strip_rpath.py

Handling the subprocess.CalledProcessError exception when executing otool, to display the error output if it occurs. Outputting information about which specific rpath was removed from the executable file. Handling the subprocess.CalledProcessError exception when executing install_name_tool, to display the error output if it occurs.

Checklist

[ ] Tested the change ingame
[ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
[ ] Tested in combination with possibly related c...

Embedded image

09:48

pink dragon!

09:48

0.7 skins pog

it's ogay

chiller, how much kog do you play

qog

i rage quitted playing all together around a year ago when my ineternet died

10:07

before that i played in phases. Idk i did play somewhat active id say

i remember him playing 7 years ago xd

pst name changer

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #5660 [DRAFT] Start working on 0.7 skins menu

^ u got me there for a second

isn’t kog clan for top 100

axaxax

or did u just give them so many maps that they’re like whatever

back when i joined kog it was top70

10:11

i dont think i ever made it into top70

nerd

10:11

Lmfao

idk how i got in

wild

i think top70 was more like the only technical metric they had

10:13

it was more a community thing

10:13

of active players that enjoy koging

chiller i really respect you for working on it

on 0.7? xd

but if heinrich merges it, i have to say that this is a completely wild decision and pretty ego

i was super active on kog skype group and kog forum etc

10:13

yikes

i don't know any dev that actually wants this

lerato is 0.7 enjoyer

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #7085 Update darwin_strip_rpath.py

Handling the subprocess.CalledProcessError exception when executing otool, to display the error output if it occurs. Outputting information about which specific rpath was removed from the executable file. Handling the subprocess.CalledProcessError exception when executing install_name_tool, to display the error output if it occurs. & fix tabulation

Checklist

[ ] Tested the change ingame
[ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
[ ] Tested in combination with p...

thanks for the respect unless i didnt get the irony

i think deep in his mind, learath also knows that we bloat the source code quite a bit

10:14

i've seen him saying smth similar to the bridge

10:14

no no, the respect is serious

pog

10:15

yea if he doesnt merge ima cry

i know

waiting for almost 1 year to get it merged

that's why i wanted to prevent it in first place

10:15

well who am i i should just do my own things lmao

ddnet2

ddnet 3

wot

i skip 2, because future

10:15

xd

bleeding edge

no just kidding

but tbh, my plan is actually mostly to get to vanilla support and then add fng stuff

10:16

i am not really the best to implement all the ddnet quirks xD

0.7 is the vanillast protocol of them all

it's really hard even understanding the source code

10:17

or we actually break physics in ddnet 2

oof

i mean core physics stay ofc

heinrich hammer moment

but stuff like draggers are so fucking bad implemented

10:17

it hurts me to read it

ok pro dev

yeah np

10:18

you owe me smth for this amazing real talk

Those are skins from https://ddnet.org/skins. I'm open to suggestios for better room icons (or more fitting skins)

Replying to Jupstar ✪ who even made these epic icons xD

for the respect you gave me? :D

yes XDDDDD

eh oke

10:19

you get respect back

10:19

for ddnet2

thanks, i owe u smth

honestly idk much about it but what i saw looked really cool

what do u need?

a gf

ah ok

@ insanity, chiller is still free

wingman jopsti

10:22

jopsti when come to munich?

i dunno, i was there once

why didnt u tell me mf

it was from school Bauma messe

xd

where they flex by building a 200000$ house for 3 days

10:23

(no joke) xD

sounds cool

yeah xd i mean it was impressive

10:24

ngl

10:24

when the tires of a tractor are like 10 meters

10:24

u fucking scared

litle school jopsti being 1m

i mean they were literally so huge

10:25

it's these machines used for grabbing coal and stuff

a pickaxe?

exactly xd

xd

a wheel out of pickaxes

such #developer talk

yeah

github-merge-queue[bot]

[ddnet:master] 2 new commits

605a937 improve code style in proofmode, mapgrid and mapview - Marmare314 d11bbbc Merge pull request #7083 from Marmare314/style-7017 - Robyt3

10:26

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #7083 improve code style in proofmode, mapgrid and mapview

now that you can read&write offtopic... it's lame to not write in developers

10:27

before that it was cool to write in dev channel bcs there was no choice

10:27

now that there's no excuse, we have to break the system

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #7086 Update darwin_strip_rpath.py

Handling the subprocess.CalledProcessError exception when executing otool, to display the error output if it occurs. Outputting information about which specific rpath was removed from the executable file. Handling the subprocess.CalledProcessError exception when executing install_name_tool, to display the error output if it occurs.

Checklist

[ ] Tested the change ingame
[ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
[ ] Tested in combination with possibly...

bro so many prs lately

10:28

aimazing

yea offtopic is still matrix only

10:37

but developer is nicer channel and heinrich told me spamming chillerbot stuff is more accepted in developer than offtopic i rather vibe here

what's written in dev channel stays in dev channel

exactly

the only rule in this channel xD

and dont talk about the dev channel outside of the dev channel

10:43

@Patiga if i select vulkan as backend for wgpu are out of bound reads inside a shader all checked? like is wgpu adding runtime checks to the shader or even at the render command?

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #7084 Update darwin_strip_rpath.py

10:54

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #7085 Update darwin_strip_rpath.py

oha chiller, nicht nur deutschi, sondern auch münchner, kimm a mal nunter aufs land, lel

hi

hello, nice to meet you how are you?

wanted to test it

Jupstar ✪

hello, nice to meet you how are you?

good, and you?

neutral

xd

in the map 007 and 069 theres these things that circle you built into the background of the map. i was wondering if its possible to code something into the client and have that on every map?

Image attachment

12:03

but make them circle your actual self and not be part of the map. so even if you zoom out it wont get bigger

no code needed for that

12:04

you can already set custom background maps

12:04

and play with para to make it not zoom

ouu

12:05

ima try to figure out how to do that real quick

im not sure if you can leave the map design on for that

12:05

i think the custom background map only works with entities but not sure whats possible there

what is para to make it not zoom

iirc ddnet zooms all quads

12:09

unless they have parlax

12:09

on the group

12:09

set para x and para y

12:10

it makes it shift depending on your pos

12:10

if the value is low enough it should make it not zoom and move barley

oh so thats a map feature not a client feature (edited)

12:12

all g

ChillerDragon

and play with para to make it not zoom

i think you can use para zoom instead of normal para if ur client is updated (edited)

ohhh

12:44

lemme update

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #7087 Add streamer mode to avoid leaks

Made for the top1 teeworlds tiktoker teeworldseasy. Who is live 24/7 and occasionally leaking his save password. !image !image !image ![image](https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/assets/2034...

wot non 0.7 related pr!?

NO WAY

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #7088 Enter hotkey to connect to server should not be triggered when country selection popup open

Instead, the enter hotkey should confirm the selection in the popup. Probably got broken by #6840.

GitHub

Click to see attachment 🖼️

lol

13:40

i cant see this being a ddnet thing though

13:41

more like just chillerbot ux

Jupstar: you might get ddnet physics implemented in rust from Zwelf ^^

yeah i know, that's really cool but tbh it won't be really compatible sadly

13:55

i already looked into it

why is it not possible to make it compatible?

it's certainly possible

13:56

but it might be too big of a rewrite to be more useful than the c code we have rn

ah

also tbh i am not sure how compatible i want to stay at all maybe i want to try out fixed point floats for physics

13:57

that's a slight physic break, but in the end all my stuff breaks everything anyway xd

oh yea, fixed point would be soo nice

13:57

unfortunately breaking

i'd assume most maps still work

13:58

so if we really ever plan a second season, that would be the time to do such stuff

@heinrich5991 @Ryozuki I made unique sql backups public here, feel free to pull a copy. I update these kind of irregularly https://files.uniqueclan.net/backups/

wot timakro

14:11

u alive

ello

why are you a bot chiller?

no proof

i mean why does it say bot next to your name :D

i refuse any allegations

14:12

plase talk to my lawyer mr jopsti

matrix bridge? :P

irc bridge :)

aha

u still active?

14:14

@timakro why havent i seen u in ages? u still play? u still do some unique stuff?

@timakro mind if I annoy you every six months about it? every year?

@heinrich5991 nah, would actually be good if I did backups more regularly :D

six months it is

14:16

automating backups is the way to go btw

timakro.de for sale o.O

14:23

korb

@ChillerDragon I'm not playing anymore but I still maintain unique

@timakro I can't configure my alerts for longer than a month :/

on your phone/calendar?

oh wow you fully quit? :(

14:25

sadge

timakro

on your phone/calendar?

I'll figure something out

idk just stopped playing some day ^^

sad to hear

no, selfhosted https://healthchecks.io/

Healthchecks.io – Cron Job Monitoring

Simple and efficient cron job monitoring. Get instant alerts when your cron jobs, background workers, scheduled tasks don't run on time.

will have to check this out, because if you automate backups then you still can't be sure they really run, but this seems to be target at exactly that problem

yea you usually do some http request at the end of the backup

14:27

and it alerts if it didnt receive it

@timakro yes, quite nice project. I use it for backups, certificates and ddnet https master server monitoring

is it public?

14:30

status.heinrich5991.de ?

hc.heinrich5991.de

14:34

but not accessible

yo @heinrich5991 you have only one vps right? not too big cpu with a hughe drive right? If that thing dies how painful would it be? Do you have some provision scripts and backups? How much data would be lost and how long would it take you to restore the whole thing?

Chiller planning his next attack xd

that thing would actually be pretty painful, now that you mention it

not trying to cause you any sleepless nights :D just asking if you have some rock solid strat that i can copy so i can sleep better

aren't u using github as backup? that sounds pretty solid xD

me?

14:44

yea i have some things in place

yes

i spread it up on two vps

I'm backing up other stuff using some tool I forgot

and basically ALL data is backuped to github

14:45

and github is backed up to gitlab

14:45

stll wouldnt be nice

14:46

where do you back it up to heinrich?

my computers are backed up using zfs

14:46

nas at home

ou my computers are only backed up to github xd

14:46

that worked fine every time my drive died

14:47

i have no private data on my laptop so thats fine. Its all on my vps .-. so thats scary xd

do you use a password manager btw?

yes

good

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #7089 Notify antibot of round start after initializing teehistorian

This allows the antibot to start pushing data into teehistorian immediately.

Checklist

[ ] Tested the change ingame
[ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
[ ] Tested in combination with possibly related configuration options
[ ] Written a unit test (especially base/) or added coverage to integration test
[ ] Considered possible null pointers and out of bounds array indexing
[ ] Changed no physics that affect existing maps
[ ] Tested the change with [ASa...

Jupstar ✪

@Patiga if i select vulkan as backend for wgpu are out of bound reads inside a shader all checked? like is wgpu adding runtime checks to the shader or even at the render command?

in wgsl, out of bounds loads usually return garbage values, probably implementation defined. I haven't encountered yet that it encounters a 'Trap'. You can still also just use spir-v shaders directly, which ofc won't get new checks or anything What do you mean with 'at the render command' exactly? wgpu will verify that you have the appropriate bind groups and shader buffers set, before it allows you to execute pipelines

15:45

https://gpuweb.github.io/gpuweb/wgsl/#out-of-bounds-access-sec

Patiga

in wgsl, out of bounds loads usually return garbage values, probably implementation defined. I haven't encountered yet that it encounters a 'Trap'. You can still also just use spir-v shaders directly, which ofc won't get new checks or anything What do you mean with 'at the render command' exactly? wgpu will verify that you have the appropriate bind groups and shader buffers set, before it allows you to execute pipelines

well my question generall is, if it prevents undefined behavior of any kind in pure safe code that indeed also includes stuff like casting NaNs to ints even in shaders

in the shader code, no. out of bounds accesses do return values, without you being sure what they may be. they are called 'indeterminate values' https://gpuweb.github.io/gpuweb/wgsl/#indeterminate-values and are used in the function definitions in the spec, often when operations are done on NaNs.

Implementations may assume that overflow, infinities, and NaNs are not present at runtime.

just skimmed past that, sounded interesting https://gpuweb.github.io/gpuweb/wgsl/#bit-reinterp-builtin-functions sounds like casts from NaNs to ints is fine in theory

i mean i know they kinda implement webgpu API but in fact they have a VK backend and i kinda doubt it has the same guarantees as the WebGPU API or to rephrase: i generally don't trust any drivers i wonder if one should really trust these new APIs in terms of security.. I mean sure, the GPU stuff is isolated, and e.g. dedicated GPUs are itself an isolation already

I am asking all this bcs i was wondering if i should rewrite the shaders to wgls and use their compiler, which should make anything that happens on the GPU itself (not vk API) just as safe as wgpu proving buffer/memory correctness is probably easier than that

(edited)

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #7090 Use new format for country flags

Suggested by Jurai! on Discord. We currently use old format of some flags like: Mongolia (Using now: Mongolian People's Republic), Martinique (Using now: Snake Flag what stepped down at October 2018 year), Reunion (Using now: Drapo la Rényon what stepped down at 28 March 2003 Year) Links of old flags: Old Mongolia flag: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_People%27s_Republic Old Martinique flag: https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:Snake_Flag_of_Martinique.svg Ol...

Jupstar ✪

i mean i know they kinda implement webgpu API but in fact they have a VK backend and i kinda doubt it has the same guarantees as the WebGPU API or to rephrase: i generally don't trust any drivers i wonder if one should really trust these new APIs in terms of security.. I mean sure, the GPU stuff is isolated, and e.g. dedicated GPUs are itself an isolation already

I am asking all this bcs i was wondering if i should rewrite the shaders to wgls and use their compiler, which should make anything that happens on the GPU itself (not vk API) just as safe as wgpu proving buffer/memory correctness is probably easier than that

(edited)

well what kind of safe-ness are you looking for? Do you want the shader to terminate with an array upon out-of-bounds accesses? I don't think wgpu offers that feature. One thing it does offer is ensuring uniformity in io accesses https://gpuweb.github.io/gpuweb/wgsl/#uniformity

Patiga

well what kind of safe-ness are you looking for? Do you want the shader to terminate with an array upon out-of-bounds accesses? I don't think wgpu offers that feature. One thing it does offer is ensuring uniformity in io accesses https://gpuweb.github.io/gpuweb/wgsl/#uniformity

well let's say you allow an attacker to run any webGPU code he wants on your computer for a week Would you feel comfortable? xd

ah, I mean to all the questions from before I think the answer is "yes, wgpu allows that"

16:04

oof

16:04

I mean I don't want someone else to use my gpu for a week xd

yeah besides that xd

16:05

but considering how ez i can crash my system with vulkan xD

16:05

i kinda wouldnt feel confortable

ah

16:06

like, I'm not highly informed in all the security aspects of wgpu. It does seem to be high-level enough to keep you from crashing your system, yes

16:06

as long as you don't use wgpu-core maybe

and aslong as the driver of the computer is trust worthy

16:06

which webgpu cant really proof

16:07

with trust worthy i mean bug free

16:07

chrome and firefox defs use vulkan as backend for webgpu api

thats a big thing to ask. I don't think anyone would be capable of answering you with a comfortable "yes"

so u kinda have to trust these drivers to not be buggy to a point where they can be abused

exactly

16:08

I haven't audited the entire code base. chrome seems to think that they can ship it to the public. firefox still has it in nightly I think

16:09

like honestly I wouldn't give you a confident yes if you would ask me if connecting to a DDNet server is completely save ^^

it's probably not safe

16:09

we had buffer overflows before

well i was thinking about allowing mods to use graphics. I kinda like the idea generally, but maybe as an extra security level it should only allow mods that are pre-checked by a human. (e.g. by hash of the wasm module or smth) that would allow modders to do stuff that I don't want to see in my base code, while still giving flexibility

(edited)

I would strongly assume that you can safely execute shaders

laptop GPUs share the same memory as CPUs at least

16:11

so i even don't directly trust that

wouldn't be access to shaders sufficient for user graphics?

16:11

eh, depends if you also wanna do gui I guess

yeah they generally need to know about buffers

16:12

e.g. if they want to alter rendering of certain stuff

so you are thinking about accepting wasm code that you where you give the module a queue and device and they are allowed to do anything with that

Patiga

so you are thinking about accepting wasm code that you where you give the module a queue and device and they are allowed to do anything with that

well it must be in a higher level source code

16:13

if i can read the rust code and i can compile it i can also host the wasm module and make it trusted

16:13

e.g. tater client modifies rendering a bit (HUD, map)

16:13

would be cool if this is allowed generally (from a trusted source)

16:14

or freeze stars vs snowflakes xD

16:14

the endless debate

16:14

dont want to support both in the base code

yes, if you either audit the code or retrieve it from a trusted source (the latter is ofc more fishy), it sounds fine, no?

16:15

then its not anymore about the question if it is safe to execute arbitrary wgpu wasm modules, but if you trust that you can build a trusted ecosystem

yeah ofc in theory it would be cooler to allow any wasm module

16:16

even untrusted ones

16:16

that's why i was interested

yea it is indeed interesting

16:18

I mean wasm by default has no io, so I can see where you are coming from

16:19

as soon as you give it access to io operations via wasi, I think the answer is a clear no

yeah it has no access to anything

actually, it might not be able to do more than DOS by using memory/runtime/shader runtime. all the unsafe functions where you get lower level access seems to be unavailable in webassembly

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Can_Eat_Glass

I Can Eat Glass

I Can Eat Glass was a linguistic project documented on the early Web by then-Harvard student Ethan Mollick. The objective was to provide speakers with translations of the phrase "I can eat glass, it does not hurt me" from a wide variety of languages; the phrase was chosen because of its unorthodox nature. Mollick's original page disappeared in o...

when does 17.2.1 release?

kaan

when does 17.2.1 release?

on 2023-08-20

isnt it 27th today

yes

so its released?

yes

when does 17.2.2 release then xd

16:42

my bad

what are you hoping to get released?

just asking

it's released if there is a need to release it

16:42

e.g. a bug fix

16:43

else the next version is 17.3

oh okay

16:43

thanks

https://github.com/lwthiker/curl-impersonate

GitHub - lwthiker/curl-impersonate: curl-impersonate: A special bui...

curl-impersonate: A special build of curl that can impersonate Chrome & Firefox - GitHub - lwthiker/curl-impersonate: curl-impersonate: A special build of curl that can impersonate Chrome &...

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #7091 sv_ipv4only 1 doesn't work

I'm not sure if I'm using it wrong but the server still attempts to register IPV6.

18:39

github-merge-queue[bot]

[ddnet:master] 2 new commits

70bf739 Notify antibot of round start after initializing teehistorian - heinrich5991 225603e Merge pull request #7089 from heinrich5991/pr_ddnet_antibot_after_teehistorian - Robyt3

18:39

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #7089 Notify antibot of round start after initializing teehistorian

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #7002 Add pixelart tool to editor

19:02

github-merge-queue[bot]

[ddnet:master] 2 new commits

946be50 Add tileart tool to editor - Marmare314 3988877 Merge pull request #7002 from Marmare314/pixelart - Robyt3

is #7002 not a duplicate of the map_create_pixelart tool?

https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/7002

Add pixelart tool to editor by Marmare314 · Pull Request #7002 · dd...

Generate tilelayers and color maps from an image. This could be useful for all sorts of things from importing shapes like circles to creating maps like pokemon gen 1. For each 255 colors one color ...

https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/blob/master/src/tools/map_create_pixelart.cpp

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #7092 Don't register to ipv6 when sv_ipv4only is enabled. (fixes #7091)

It makes no sense to try to register server to IPv6, when it's not enabled.

Checklist

[x] Tested the change ingame
[ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
[ ] Tested in combination with possibly related configuration options
[ ] Written a unit test (especially base/) or added coverage to integration test
[ ] Considered possible null pointers and out of bounds array indexing
[ ] Changed no physics that affect existing maps
[ ] Tested the change with [ASan...

A

@Ryozuki the i can eat glass wiki link and curl impersonate were funny and interesting are those some kind of replies or random uncontextulized shares?

19:42

i rate those links 9/10 would click again

19:43

but be warned posting links without further comments can get your message deleted on this censorship channel

wat

wat wat

19:49

you posted two links

ye i mean ur last msg

ah that

19:49

is me making fun of the one mod

19:49

who deleted a message in this channel

19:49

that only contained a link

19:49

i forgot who it was

19:49

but i will keep shaming him

lmfao

ah it was @Vy0x2

19:53

axaxax

lmfao

https://github.com/TeeworldsDB/irclogs/blob/f38239c1aa3e8ee10b9a7065a2d538e8f0972d63/ddnet/2022-11-14.log#L107-L127

irclogs/ddnet/2022-11-14.log at f38239c1aa3e8ee10b9a7065a2d538e8f09...

Mirror of https://ddnet.tw/irclogs/. Contribute to TeeworldsDB/irclogs development by creating an account on GitHub.

lmfao

19:56

power tripping

a: buse

19:56

power tripping is a cool term

19:57

havent heard that before

https://www.pcgamer.com/a-guy-with-19-youtube-subs-executed-perhaps-the-greatest-gta-speedrun-in-history-six-weeks-ago-and-no-one-noticed/

A guy with 19 YouTube subs executed perhaps the greatest GTA speedr...

"You avoid damage with set-up and preparation, and by killing everybody else first."

F

damn

why F?

press F to pay respects

GTA IV No Damage, No Hit Full Game Speedrun

because he didnt get respect yet

20:03

since "nobody noticed"

well since pcgamer published it

20:03

everybody noticed

20:03

xd

yea thats what i said

20:03

"nobody noticed"

20:03

who reads fakin pcgamer

https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/162b4n9/a_guy_with_19_youtube_subs_executed_perhaps_the/

From the gaming community on Reddit: A guy with 19 YouTube subs exe...

Explore this post and more from the gaming community

20:03

i read reddit

L

https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/releases

Releases · llvm/llvm-project

The LLVM Project is a collection of modular and reusable compiler and toolchain technologies. Note: the repository does not accept github pull requests at this moment. Please submit your patches at...

20:10

soon llvm 17 releases

then what

llvm 18 i guess

Chairn

is #7002 not a duplicate of the map_create_pixelart tool?

It works differently. The tool integrated in the editor uses tile layers so the maps render fast for reasonable image sizes. The separate tool uses quads, so it's much slower, but support arbitrary colors. We can probably remove the separate tool now, I don't see much merit in using quads instead of tiles and it's more inconvenient to use over the command line.

ChillerDragon

ah it was @Vy0x2

glad i didnt leak months of server logs with ips in it (edited)

❓

dude had his own server logs public until i told him

21:47

xaxaxa

❓

Yikes

21:54

Zwelf: the new bridge mostly shows (null) as text in the reply’s. That was smoother in the old bridge.

22:00

Now it shows the text idk matrix is so bugged wtf

22:01

Yea that was a oopsi daisy

Replying to @Vy0x2 gald i didnt leak months of server logs with ips in it

https://blog.unity.com/technology/debugging-memory-corruption-who-the-hell-writes-2-into-my-stack-2

Debugging memory corruption: who the hell writes “2” into my stack?...

22:25

‍

i am surprised i never read this sooner

xDD

Exported 606 message(s)