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DDraceNetwork / off-topic
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Between 2023-07-18 00:00:00Z and 2023-07-19 00:00:00Z
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Could say i domt think about it at all
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Agreed
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A millisecond pulsar (MSP) is a pulsar with a rotational period less than about 10 milliseconds. Millisecond pulsars have been detected in radio, X-ray, and gamma ray portions of the electromagnetic spectrum. The leading theory for the origin of millisecond pulsars is that they are old, rapidly rotating neutron stars that have been spun up or "r...
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The final opinion polls allowed under Spanish law before the July 23 general election showed the conservative People's Party (PP) well ahead of the ruling Socialists on Monday, but at the very least needing the support of far-right Vox to govern.
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i dont enable anyone
10:40
i vote for my interest
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you are holding the door wide open
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god i hate this narrative
10:40
if u dont support x it doesnt mean u support Y and i always found that stupid
👍 1
10:41
and u wont change my mind
10:41
and if people vote those through democracy, it just tells us about democracy
10:41
thats what people wanted
10:41
i vote what i want
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Worst thing is if U like some of the promises from each and same for dislikes so its really hard to decide on whom to vote
10:45
I for example dislike every possible option here
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i guess im just left disappointed in ryos decision to put a theoretical political systme over human rights
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Nazis? fr? is everyone right winged a nazi now? Have you even stopped to look at what they propose?
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They are a populistic right wing party harming human rights. Sure nazi is hyperbolic, but adequate from my pov. And yes ive looked into it
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Could you be a bit more precise about the "harming" part?
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very opposed to lgbt rights
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I wouldn't really say opposed from what I just read, but I could understand how it could bother. Anyways, they are far from majority and if they win by getting allied with someone else I doubt they'd have that much power . (edited)
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xd ok lets say strongly against
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ScReeNy
They are a populistic right wing party harming human rights. Sure nazi is hyperbolic, but adequate from my pov. And yes ive looked into it
Yeah human rights have gone too far . people can not pay rent for years and not be evicted because it costs too much to get people evicted its not worth the hassle
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Middle class is dying out so there really will be only poor and rich left
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im hearing this since the year 2000 . and i feel like im middle class
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same - the definement of "middle class" is: can pay stuff without worrying all the time, but doesnt have enough to do "insert moneywaste thing here"
11:36
i can pay rent and buy food without struggle, i cant buy a ticket to phuket for 2K out of the blue tho
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If U are a renter U arent middle class atleast thats my take
11:37
What U describe sounds more like financial stability
11:37
Poor people can be financially stable too
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i mean being a renter is nice as it doesnt make you tied to 1 spot
11:38
as you are flexible with your life and can go anywhere without caring about the 30 year mortgage
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also depends on what you rent, living with your 6 headed family in a 50m² apartment is something i would describe as poor
11:39
but that is personal
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Not that many years ago mortgage was 15 max 20 years
11:40
U see, i personally believe people shouldnt live in flats/blocks
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many years ago buying a house didnt cost million's
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I know it works for ants, but mammals arent ants
11:41
Also while U own a home, and really wish to not live there U can either sell or rent, and then even being a renter to somone else always leave U with a real backup
11:41
Tho as Ama said, have fun evicting some junkie out
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Ama
Yeah human rights have gone too far . people can not pay rent for years and not be evicted because it costs too much to get people evicted its not worth the hassle
Honestly your opinion starts with "Human rights have gone too far", there isn't much more to read after that
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using apartment's as a financial backup is what exploits poor people (BIG: IN MY OPINION) (edited)
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Commodification of housing is indeed the cancer of modern society
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ӎěłŏƞ
using apartment's as a financial backup is what exploits poor people (BIG: IN MY OPINION) (edited)
Well yes, because it"s no longer home owning, its buying 10 flats from developer and then renting them
11:42
In short U have to be already rich to do so
11:43
Middle class can at most afford two homes and thats usually the upper middle class
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from where i live (near munich) there are over 45 thousand empty apartments, because rich people have those for their kids
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Housing in big cities is great investment
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ӎěłŏƞ
from where i live (near munich) there are over 45 thousand empty apartments, because rich people have those for their kids
"for their kids" = waiting until they appreciate enough so they can be sold to buy more houses in a poorer country
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you have to take into account that middle class varies form country to country, germany for example has a very low home ownership, thats why i would consider more people without a home here still as middle class
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Buy now, rent, and everyyear value goes up
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step 1 in your 3 step way to make money, means either knowing people to buy one, beeing lucky to play the lottery, or just dont
11:44
paying off a mortage to buy yourself financial security, is straight up not it
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ScReeNy
you have to take into account that middle class varies form country to country, germany for example has a very low home ownership, thats why i would consider more people without a home here still as middle class
Afaik in netherlands its similar where U rent house but its urs, but not urs
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Learath2
Honestly your opinion starts with "Human rights have gone too far", there isn't much more to read after that
I mean the take sounds really bad . but what human rights have become in developed countries just goes too far in my opinion . People dont face consequences for their actions anymore . Climate/trans activist are braindead people
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ӎěłŏƞ
step 1 in your 3 step way to make money, means either knowing people to buy one, beeing lucky to play the lottery, or just dont
Yes, but every year it gets harder to do so, so it still applies aka do NOW then profit
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Ama
I mean the take sounds really bad . but what human rights have become in developed countries just goes too far in my opinion . People dont face consequences for their actions anymore . Climate/trans activist are braindead people
Which action would you like them to face consequences for?
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@Ama i wish the self defense laws actually were for victim not preparator that fucked around and found out
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Learath2
Which action would you like them to face consequences for?
For making people stupid, for example, as with religion same for "ideologies" leave kids alone till they"re 20-25 and then indoctrinate them
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Learath2
Which action would you like them to face consequences for?
hormone blockers on 9-11 year old kids . people should go to jail for that in my opinion
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Climate activists in munich get dragged down the streets before the first camera is beeing put on, trans people i really dont fucking mind, they have one specific day in the year where they have the "CSD parade" (christopher street day) where they walk around and throw rainbow glitter
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Ama
hormone blockers on 9-11 year old kids . people should go to jail for that in my opinion
Who are you to decide what is an appropriate medical decision for anyone? You are not a doctor, I'm not a doctor. Should that not be a decision made by medical professionals and the parents?
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Ama
hormone blockers on 9-11 year old kids . people should go to jail for that in my opinion
oh yeah absolutely. did you hear the story about the family who labeled their 2 month old baby as NON BINARY?!
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Learath2
Who are you to decide what is an appropriate medical decision for anyone? You are not a doctor, I'm not a doctor. Should that not be a decision made by medical professionals and the parents?
hormone blocker's before hitting puberty is straight up wrong
11:48
i wore leather and had my hair dyed black when i was 12
11:48
i cringed at that when i turned 14
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ӎěłŏƞ
hormone blocker's before hitting puberty is straight up wrong
I mean I don't know it's exact effects and I'm pretty well read on useless information like this. I'm fairly sure you aren't a doctor either
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@Learath2 as former hospital employee and somone who has had bad familly doctor i can only laugh at the statement that, only doctors can come to these decisions, there is also something called common sense
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Do you think the medical professionals don't consider the extremely trivial fact that messing with hormones is dangerous?
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Puberty blockers, also called hormone blockers, help delay unwanted physical changes that don't match someone's gender identity
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One rabbi says to cut the hemorroids, the other will offer to heal them with salve/paste
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Overlord
@Learath2 as former hospital employee and somone who has had bad familly doctor i can only laugh at the statement that, only doctors can come to these decisions, there is also something called common sense
Does your common sense tell you whether radio isotopes are safe within the human body?
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Learath2
Does your common sense tell you whether radio isotopes are safe within the human body?
Yes, they arent afaik because they halvr every now and then
11:50
But even if i had 0 knowledge on topic @Learath2 i do know to look for second opinion, and also i do know that doctors can be bought
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ӎěłŏƞ
Puberty blockers, also called hormone blockers, help delay unwanted physical changes that don't match someone's gender identity
You know what they do from a very rough sense. I also understand that much, but I don't claim to know what it's effects are in the long term or the mental health of a person
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Learath2
Who are you to decide what is an appropriate medical decision for anyone? You are not a doctor, I'm not a doctor. Should that not be a decision made by medical professionals and the parents?
Im not a doctor but i have seen what doctors did during covid and its enough to not trust them anymore with decisions as they are motivated by money even more in the USA where the problem is way bigger
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Remember 70-80s where sugar was pushed as HEALTHY?
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its effects interfere with the natural developement of the body
11:52
remember back then when smoking was never advertised as deadly?
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Aleo i want to remind everyone that in commie poland when there was shortage of butter, margarine was pushed as way healthier and superb product
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when cocaine was advertised as "the kick for the future"
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Overlord
Yes, they arent afaik because they halvr every now and then
Yet they are very safe in the controlled doses used in nuclear radiology, as you can see your common sense does not apply to the medical field, because "common sense" is meant to be applied to daily stuff, not science
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its common sense to not cut someones throat when he has an itch
11:52
its common sense to not fuck with biological nature
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Learath2
Yet they are very safe in the controlled doses used in nuclear radiology, as you can see your common sense does not apply to the medical field, because "common sense" is meant to be applied to daily stuff, not science
Ye, but how do U find the controlled dose if not on failed experimentation, nearly all meds are deadly in too much of a. Dose even paracetamol
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if it does NOT include medication and such
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U can go buy 10g of paracetamol and lead to organ failure
11:53
Yet doctor will tell U to eat 500-1000mg a day
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ӎěłŏƞ
its common sense to not cut someones throat when he has an itch
Yet if a sizeable enough body of doctors told you cutting you open will help them diagnose an itch would you still say no or consider the fact that maybe there is something you don't quite get here?
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that doesnt add up to what you were saying
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Learath2
Yet if a sizeable enough body of doctors told you cutting you open will help them diagnose an itch would you still say no or consider the fact that maybe there is something you don't quite get here?
Each cutting can lead to sepsis and death
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@Learath2 we will talk another time about this as i like how our opinions are diffrent and always like to talk to you but this conversation got hijacked by them 2 so its not worth the time to talk about 3 topics at once . cya another time
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when my teeth hurt its common sense for every doctor to not do a rectal exam
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ӎěłŏƞ
that doesnt add up to what you were saying
Are you saying that medical professionals don't have consensus that puberty blockers are the best way they could come up with to manage gender dysphoria?
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Ama
@Learath2 we will talk another time about this as i like how our opinions are diffrent and always like to talk to you but this conversation got hijacked by them 2 so its not worth the time to talk about 3 topics at once . cya another time
👋
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@Ama hi
11:55
i love ur maps
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Look @Learath2 U are going into extremes, situation is more like " i see okayish without glasses, and very good with them, i can go get a laser surgery to see as good as with glasses but there is possibility of not seeing at all" do U just flip a coin and go?
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gender dysphoria is getting spread amongst the youth over social media. when someone really doesnt feel well in what they were born as, they can obviously change what ever they want to
11:56
but dont let kids do that
11:56
what shit did you as a child do, which you thought is right, where you later learned that it was fucking stupid
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@Ama dont call me a hijacker i was here all morning
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i think its bad to tell people they are bad for caring about issues that they directly face and not "actively" support something that doesnt affect them directly (about the if you dont support x ur against it)
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Overlord
Look @Learath2 U are going into extremes, situation is more like " i see okayish without glasses, and very good with them, i can go get a laser surgery to see as good as with glasses but there is possibility of not seeing at all" do U just flip a coin and go?
It's not a coin flip, you are insane if you think LASIK is coinflip (edited)
11:57
A lot of people make that decision every hour of every day and get LASIK
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ӎěłŏƞ
what shit did you as a child do, which you thought is right, where you later learned that it was fucking stupid
wasnt this about hormone blockers? they are really harmless and in use for children as normal medical treatment for 40 years
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Learath2
It's not a coin flip, you are insane if you think LASIK is coinflip (edited)
There isnt only lasik, there are also PRK ASA LASEK LBV SMILE PTK YAG SLT PRP
11:57
There were people who did suffer consequences of getting us to LASIK
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its about forcing and talking childs into doing it, because they get told they aren't a boy or girl
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ӎěłŏƞ
but dont let kids do that
I'm not saying kids should decide. I'm saying it's a decision that should be made by doctors and the parents with input from the kid. Definitely not by some governmental body or busybodies like us that have nothing better to do then discuss other peopls lives on the internet
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forcing coming from the parents mostly, talking into it comes from social media
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ScReeNy
wasnt this about hormone blockers? they are really harmless and in use for children as normal medical treatment for 40 years
There is huge difference of having genetic problem, and treating healthy child on ur whims
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Overlord
There is huge difference of having genetic problem, and treating healthy child on ur whims
i was just saying the medical is practiced long time
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Also people like to get cut so easily, why is there even orthopediatrics (edited)
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ӎěłŏƞ
its about forcing and talking childs into doing it, because they get told they aren't a boy or girl
thats exactly what blockers are there for they give them time to think about it.
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Why even work out if U can cut fat flaps out
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when THEY decide, i am always talking about people talking them into it
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Overlord
There is huge difference of having genetic problem, and treating healthy child on ur whims
The ethics of medicine on kids is an extremely difficult problem that you are reducing here to internet banter. It's extremely complicated to even talk about who is responsible for what here.
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ScReeNy
i was just saying the medical is practiced long time
Eye surgeries were practiced in rennesance too so its really old yet till 2000s there were huge risks
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oh i think he is talking about hormone blockers, not the eye surgery thing
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Learath2
The ethics of medicine on kids is an extremely difficult problem that you are reducing here to internet banter. It's extremely complicated to even talk about who is responsible for what here.
Do i really?
12:00
Im all in for experimental treatment as long as there is no alternative
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im all in for saving lifes before making lifes "better"
12:01
more money to cancer research
12:01
^
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Overlord
Im all in for experimental treatment as long as there is no alternative
It's not really experimental when there is a huge body of research into it that has already finished. If you want to refute it you need to bring similar quality evidence of your own
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And as somone whose cousin just died after fighting entire life a genetic condition and being treated by expert from all western world i can say its not miracle its just trail of error
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Learath2
It's not really experimental when there is a huge body of research into it that has already finished. If you want to refute it you need to bring similar quality evidence of your own
But in that same group of doctors U have those that disagree who to trust then?!
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we are going into a direction that i find weird, we cant talk about if medical treatment is pure trial and error, because it always is and always was
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Your evidence is "common sense", the psychiatric associations around the world are operating on (iirc) half a dozen double blind trials that haven't been refuted
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the first person to heal a bone fixated it and hoped for it to work
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Overlord
But in that same group of doctors U have those that disagree who to trust then?!
Whoever brings better quality evidence
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i mean because in earlier times they didnt have tools to research more properly
12:02
predicting a outcome is a huge thing
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research = trial and error
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and modern scienc ehelps
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Learath2
Your evidence is "common sense", the psychiatric associations around the world are operating on (iirc) half a dozen double blind trials that haven't been refuted
Its very easy to label somone as psychotic, there has been huge case about that in poland where hospital tried to frame a lady and her mother as such along with prosecutor
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We don't live in 2000BC, they didn't do double blind trials with modern statistical models back then
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Overlord
Its very easy to label somone as psychotic, there has been huge case about that in poland where hospital tried to frame a lady and her mother as such along with prosecutor
Doesn't have anything to do with what we are discussing
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Yet opinion of some unrelated doctors were opposite to the hospitals
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Learath2
Doesn't have anything to do with what we are discussing
U are saying to "trust the doctors" and leave all the decision to them and parents
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can we all agree that doctors who help others rock, that science rocks, and medical treatment is awesome, and we can be glad we have those?
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But in same sentence U say i cant decide on common sense, so what parents are deciding on?
12:04
Yep doctors opinion
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you guys are discussing ifs and whatabouts (edited)
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Overlord
U are saying to "trust the doctors" and leave all the decision to them and parents
I'm saying trust the research, not trust any individual doctor
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ӎěłŏƞ
can we all agree that doctors who help others rock, that science rocks, and medical treatment is awesome, and we can be glad we have those?
i think we agree but there is always ifs
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Learath2
I'm saying trust the research, not trust any individual doctor
And i said before that researchers can be BOUGHT
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ӎěłŏƞ
can we all agree that doctors who help others rock, that science rocks, and medical treatment is awesome, and we can be glad we have those?
I mean sure, but you are the one saying this one specific part of research can't be trusted because "common sense".
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Even pointed to cases where it happend
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a doctor wont always apply science as is, they are humans, commit errors, and have biases
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@Learath2 you're confusing my texts
12:05
never said they are dangerous, i said we shouldnt intervene in the live of kids WITH those meds
12:05
because thats just wrong, AND can lead to medical issues later on
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Ryozuki
a doctor wont always apply science as is, they are humans, commit errors, and have biases
They also have other human flaws like "i cant be wrong" and "angry juice issues"
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ӎěłŏƞ
never said they are dangerous, i said we shouldnt intervene in the live of kids WITH those meds
And I never said you said they are dangerous. I said you told me that part of medical science can't be trusted
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@ӎěłŏƞ @Learath2 neither of U is in the field of medicine so why are U both so strong to ur opinions
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Overlord
And i said before that researchers can be BOUGHT
How many? Truth comes out sooner or later, all those papers you mentioned on sugar have all been retracted by their publishers. Are you claiming a similar thing will happen to these papers?
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@Overlord its called reading
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Learath2
How many? Truth comes out sooner or later, all those papers you mentioned on sugar have all been retracted by their publishers. Are you claiming a similar thing will happen to these papers?
Sometimes it comes out 40 years later, now imagine how many people are lead poisoned, or in this case mutiliated by the
12:07
@Learath2 all im saying is unless its LIFE SAVING dont randomly undergo treatments
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oh @Learath2 i think you meant the text where i said":its common sense to not fuck with biological nature"
12:08
yeah i agree, that text was stupid
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Overlord
@Learath2 all im saying is unless its LIFE SAVING dont randomly undergo treatments
What constitutes life saving?
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Learath2
What constitutes life saving?
In case of laser surgery, it would be losing sight, in case of hemorroids, it would be if regular treatment failed
12:09
So anything that saves ur life from being alive in hell
12:10
And as i said earlier im not against hormone blockers and so on, but only do so in adult stages? Those people somehow lived before then, and if U want more estrogen specificallu GET IT FROM FOOD
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the point of puberty blockers is to block puberty, I think. that's only possible before puberty, i.e. before you're an adult (edited)
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Overlord
So anything that saves ur life from being alive in hell
Okay, so your claim is that people experiencing gender dysphoria don't experience suffering?
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isnt puberty something u need to go through?
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heinrich5991
the point of puberty blockers is to block puberty, I think. that's only possible before puberty, i.e. before you're an adult (edited)
But its inevitable? Its like saying i want to stay a kid forever, or be alive forever
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sry my collegue interrupted and i had to go
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The changes to your body that happen during puberty can be distressing if they are not in line with your gender. Puberty blockers can help relieve this distress. Delaying puberty gives you more time to explore your gender identity, before changes happen to your body that can't be reversed.
12:12
thats from the PHSA
12:12
"not in line with your gender"
12:12
its not about wanting to be, its about health
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im skeptical delaying puberty doesnt have side effects
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Learath2
Okay, so your claim is that people experiencing gender dysphoria don't experience suffering?
My claim is, how come there is massive spike of people suddenly experiencing this specific condition and theyre ages 0-40?
12:12
Eapecially the group thats 20-40 year old why didnt they experience it 20 years earlier
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Overlord
My claim is, how come there is massive spike of people suddenly experiencing this specific condition and theyre ages 0-40?
I can give you a dozen reasons but you won't like any of them. Should I try?
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but if u ask me, i dont care what other parents to with their children, i just want a fair use of tax money, and ofc prioritize issues that i find more important to me
👍 1
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Learath2
I can give you a dozen reasons but you won't like any of them. Should I try?
Give me just 6
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like any human would rationally think
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damn the fair use of tax money is a big plus
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Overlord
Eapecially the group thats 20-40 year old why didnt they experience it 20 years earlier
its interesting to compare it to the share of people being lefthanded, when it wasnt outlawed anymore
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Overlord
Give me just 6
It's far more accepted now, so people feel more comfortable saying it and getting help. (Look up the "spike" of left handed people)
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ScReeNy
its interesting to compare it to the share of people being lefthanded, when it wasnt outlawed anymore
Not everywhere were people prosecuted and mentally damaged for that
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im left handed and i never had trouble saying it or felt less
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Overlord
Not everywhere were people prosecuted and mentally damaged for that
Doesn't matter, it's just an example of the effect, there are many others
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Ryozuki
im left handed and i never had trouble saying it or felt less
Wrong generation, you need to have been born a little earlier
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its the same discussion about severe depression
12:14
talking about it is awesome
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Learath2
It's far more accepted now, so people feel more comfortable saying it and getting help. (Look up the "spike" of left handed people)
Okay, so how come there is no issue like this in asia? How come even ladyboys understand that they are not ladies?
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self diagnosing? not so much
12:14
and the same happens to gender identity imo
12:15
people are forcing themselfs to change because they always hear how its the right thing
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both also suffer from instagram wannabes claiming stuff
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Ryozuki
im left handed and i never had trouble saying it or felt less
Yeah just 40 years ago U would have problems at school and probably forced to use right hand
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"i have depression im cool and emo"
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Ryozuki
"i have depression im cool and emo"
Atleast we got sudden dip of emos
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"i am a girl now because my favourite streamer told me its cool to be trans"
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Overlord
Okay, so how come there is no issue like this in asia? How come even ladyboys understand that they are not ladies?
Now you are moving the goalpost, subtly. What is the "issue like this"?
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Overlord
Yeah just 40 years ago U would have problems at school and probably forced to use right hand
they would also hit u with a ruler for being stupid
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with the italian hand
12:16
italian_hand
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Learath2
Now you are moving the goalpost, subtly. What is the "issue like this"?
All im saying is, not all the world is europe and usa, if this is a problem of homosapiens then how come other homosapiens dont experience it?
12:16
Why none of the african migrants go mutiliate their genitals when they arrive in europe
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Overlord
Why none of the african migrants go mutiliate their genitals when they arrive in europe
hmm they do lot of weird stuff over there
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Overlord
All im saying is, not all the world is europe and usa, if this is a problem of homosapiens then how come other homosapiens dont experience it?
Isn't it obvious people in asia also experience it? Do you think trans people don't exist in asia because a subset of them call themselves "ladyboy"s?
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Also any problem U see in usa trickles down to EU (social problems)
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not rly?
12:17
we dont have gun problem
12:17
we dont have school shootings
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we have health insurance
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Ryozuki
we dont have school shootings
We have lots of illegal guns from balkans in cirrculation and we have school stabbings
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not in spain atleast
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ӎěłŏƞ
people are forcing themselfs to change because they always hear how its the right thing
I would be extremely surprised if this was at all statistically significant. Same fearmongering was made back in the 50s about homosexual people, do you have any evidence to back up this very shallow claim?
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i havent heard any
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Learath2
Isn't it obvious people in asia also experience it? Do you think trans people don't exist in asia because a subset of them call themselves "ladyboy"s?
Maybe because system didnt force down their head that they can change who they were born as?
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Overlord
Maybe because system didnt force down their head that they can change who they were born as?
What system in the EU forces you to become trans?
12:18
or US if you are more comfortable discussing that
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I too would like to dress like astolfo from time to time and be cute as fuck, wont change the fact who i am
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Learath2
What system in the EU forces you to become trans?
Retarded attentiom whoring parents who are growing exponentially
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overlord coming out of the closed as trap
12:19
closet
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Ryozuki
overlord coming out of the closed as trap
I always said, if it looks like a girl and sounds as one its a girl
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@Learath2 parents can influence kids heavily
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Overlord
Retarded attentiom whoring parents who are growing exponentially
Growing exponentially yet them and their children make up such a small amount of the population that they might aswell not exist?
12:19
Also how is that a system?
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Learath2
Growing exponentially yet them and their children make up such a small amount of the population that they might aswell not exist?
If U compre current usa situation regarding gender now and in 2013 its exponential growth
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Learath2
It's far more accepted now, so people feel more comfortable saying it and getting help. (Look up the "spike" of left handed people)
got a good source for the left-handed thing?
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Overlord
If U compre current usa situation regarding gender now and in 2013 its exponential growth
exponential is a very defined notion. do you have a source?
12:20
exponential means that something doubles every N years
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Ryozuki
@Learath2 parents can influence kids heavily
Sure, but I doubt they can actually change a kids gender. At least I haven't seen any body of evidence suggesting it
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Learath2
Also how is that a system?
Everything that is done systematically is a system? U have entire "month" dedicated to that, U introduce it to kids at school wether they are willing or not
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Learath2
Sure, but I doubt they can actually change a kids gender. At least I haven't seen any body of evidence suggesting it
i guess, but this is very hard to study
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This is just as bad as army recruiter coming to schools
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but im sure if a parent says "you are a woman" during 15 years of ur childhood u will be influenced AF
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Overlord
Everything that is done systematically is a system? U have entire "month" dedicated to that, U introduce it to kids at school wether they are willing or not
you also introduce kids to gravity at school, whether they want it or not. and you're also doing sex ed in civilized countries
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Ryozuki
but im sure if a parent says "you are a woman" during 15 years of ur childhood u will be influenced AF
do you have a source that something like that is happening? I doubt it for the single case, but much more for the general case
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heinrich5991
you also introduce kids to gravity at school, whether they want it or not. and you're also doing sex ed in civilized countries
Show me somone who can PHYSICALLY or on meds disregard gravity
12:22
Dont mix social concepts with real laws governing universe (as we know it)
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Overlord
Dont mix social concepts with real laws governing universe (as we know it)
we also teach pupils about democracy at shcool. or sex ed, like I mentioned above
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heinrich5991
we also teach pupils about democracy at shcool. or sex ed, like I mentioned above
U also have teachers subtly forcing their preffered party when speaking about politics
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When several measures such as these are aggregated, associations between parent attributes and children’s behavior can be quite substantial. Parenting variables have typically accounted for 20% to 50% of the variance in child outcomes (Conger & Elder 1994, Reiss et al 1995). Exceptionally robust connections are reported in the recent large-scale study of adolescents in never-divorced and step-families, Hetherington and colleagues (Hetherington et al 1999). Using composite scores for both parenting styles and children’s attributes, report a concurrent coefficient of 0.76 between mothers’ “authoritative parenting” and adolescents’ “social responsibility” (the coefficient for fathers is 0.49). Parental negativity has very strong connections for both parents with adolescents’ depression and internalizing behavior. 1 Patterson and colleagues have also found substantial correlations between parental characteristics (e.g. disciplinary practices and monitoring) and children’s antisocial behavior (Patterson & Forgatch 1995). They are able to show connections between parental behaviors and the children’s negative, coercive behavior both at home and in out-of-home contexts.
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Ryozuki
When several measures such as these are aggregated, associations between parent attributes and children’s behavior can be quite substantial. Parenting variables have typically accounted for 20% to 50% of the variance in child outcomes (Conger & Elder 1994, Reiss et al 1995). Exceptionally robust connections are reported in the recent large-scale study of adolescents in never-divorced and step-families, Hetherington and colleagues (Hetherington et al 1999). Using composite scores for both parenting styles and children’s attributes, report a concurrent coefficient of 0.76 between mothers’ “authoritative parenting” and adolescents’ “social responsibility” (the coefficient for fathers is 0.49). Parental negativity has very strong connections for both parents with adolescents’ depression and internalizing behavior. 1 Patterson and colleagues have also found substantial correlations between parental characteristics (e.g. disciplinary practices and monitoring) and children’s antisocial behavior (Patterson & Forgatch 1995). They are able to show connections between parental behaviors and the children’s negative, coercive behavior both at home and in out-of-home contexts.
this says nothing about people being told to be a certain gender AFAICT
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Overlord
If U compre current usa situation regarding gender now and in 2013 its exponential growth
Sure, I'll bite, let's see if there is actually exponential growth there
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heinrich5991
this says nothing about people being told to be a certain gender AFAICT
well ok i dont have such concrete thing at hand
12:24
this is in general
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2012 3.5% of adults indentify as other than heterosexual, 2021 7.1%
12:25
U can google by percentages as im on phone at work
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yes. parents influence their children, I agree with that. it's called upbringing (not sure if that's the correct english word)
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And in the time span i provided 2013 vs 2023 it is exponential
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Overlord
2012 3.5% of adults indentify as other than heterosexual, 2021 7.1%
are we now also saying homosexuality isn't a thing? oO
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Only henrich claims it has to be everyyear
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Overlord
2012 3.5% of adults indentify as other than heterosexual, 2021 7.1%
You moved the goalposts again
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Learath2
You moved the goalposts again
Im still 20 messages above regarding source of my expjential claim
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What happened to trans people, why did you bring in "other than heterosexual"
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Overlord
Only henrich claims it has to be everyyear
I have absolutely not claimed that "exponential" means doubling every year
12:26
I said doubling every N years
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heinrich5991
exponential means that something doubles every N years
.
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Ach sorey didnt seee the N
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also looked exponentially in 1940
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Either way it indeed is expnential then isnt it
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Overlord
Either way it indeed is expnential then isnt it
you can't infer exponentiality from 2 data points
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ScReeNy
also looked exponentially in 1940
Left handed are always 10-20% of population as an advantage mechanism and competition mechanism
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heinrich5991
you can't infer exponentiality from 2 data points
Next data point is 10 years into future
12:27
Because issue came to be 10 years ago
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Overlord
Left handed are always 10-20% of population as an advantage mechanism and competition mechanism
and that cant be applied for transpeople or homosexuals?
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Also gay people in poland lived fine 1000 years ago and now they cant, so the graph would again be fucked up?
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ScReeNy
and that cant be applied for transpeople or homosexuals?
Homosexuality is normal ~~ roman soldier
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it just goes to show that different levels of suppression has an impact on the amount of people freely living it
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Overlord
Next data point is 10 years into future
by your argument, firefox version numbers are exponential, because it's now 115 and (checks wikipedia) firefox 57 was released in 2017
12:28
but firefox version numbers are absolutely linear
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heinrich5991
by your argument, firefox version numbers are exponential, because it's now 115 and (checks wikipedia) firefox 57 was released in 2017
Firefox is becoming a provlem true
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watafak
12:29
😄
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and the point i was making is that if there is 0 suppression it wouldnt mean everyone becoming trans or gay
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They added themselves ability to turn off Ur extensions on any site they deem so
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as seen in different examples like lefthandedness
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@Overlord the point here is that if u miss data points, everything can be interpreted exponential kinda
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Learath2
Sure, I'll bite, let's see if there is actually exponential growth there
(It seems the census bureau in the US hasn't even been tracking gender identity for any significant amount of time, so I can't check)
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Ryozuki
@Overlord the point here is that if u miss data points, everything can be interpreted exponential kinda
Well as i said i based on 2013 and now, since i personally started notocing the trend then
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what I said about firefox version numbers is between 2017 and now
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So why would i compare to 2018 where i have no idea because i slept half a day and been depressed af
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and it seems much worse!
12:30
doubling every 6 years!! (edited)
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heinrich5991
and it seems much worse!
They also removed ftp in version 88.0
12:30
So U are indeed right, with each iteration it gets worse
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sorry, I can't take this discussion seriously anymore
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Bet in firefox 230 it will be chromium based
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you're disregarding my argument completely
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Well what can i say, if U are hellbent on word exponential
12:31
And i said it in regard to my earlier messages
12:31
What can i say?
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don't claim it's exponential
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Nothing?
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without backing
this 1
12:31
and I'm fine
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heinrich5991
don't claim it's exponential
But it is if U read conversation from top
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it is not
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All you can say is that it's growing, nothing else
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My god im not suddenly choosing thise 2 time years
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that doesn't matter
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Learath2
All you can say is that it's growing, nothing else
Whispers *exponentially * ~~ just a joke
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two data points cannot make an argument for an exponential growth
12:32
at all
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heinrich5991
two data points cannot make an argument for an exponential growth
Then how can they make predictions for future?
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that's just not how maths works ^^
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If its prediction?
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Overlord
Then how can they make predictions for future?
use more than two data points
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Overlord
Then how can they make predictions for future?
Not with 2 points
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you can't make predictions with two points. at most you can make a linear prediction, but even that is veery wonky
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heinrich5991
use more than two data points
That would require me to spend time investigating statistical data and choosing what source is real and whats not
😂 1
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Overlord
That would require me to spend time investigating statistical data and choosing what source is real and whats not
I'm gonna frame this and remember this the next time I'm gonna argue in #off-topic? ^^
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Exactly, instead you went with your gut feeling and the weirdos that tell you it's an epidemic
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And regarding statistics when it comes to social things i dont have much faith in, because it all depends on how the "researcher" wanted study to go
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you can be the researcher here
12:34
just take the numbers
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Overlord
And regarding statistics when it comes to social things i dont have much faith in, because it all depends on how the "researcher" wanted study to go
Clever, now your position is unfalsifiable
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Overlord
And regarding statistics when it comes to social things i dont have much faith in, because it all depends on how the "researcher" wanted study to go
while true, science has tools to improve that
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heinrich5991
just take the numbers
Sounds like research they do at universitt where they choose X company and product Y works for all their needs but flops in real world setting
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Because whatever any researcher claims, the ones you don't like because you don't have faith in it can be just discarded
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Learath2
Because whatever any researcher claims, the ones you don't like because you don't have faith in it can be just discarded
Issue is not just pure math but propaganda and wording
12:35
If nytimes says X and reuters Y
12:35
Then do i look for 30 more sites
12:35
That say either x or y
12:35
While lots are just copies of one felieton?
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Overlord
Issue is not just pure math but propaganda and wording
You made a pure math claim, I responded with a pure math argument
12:36
Well technically statistics but still (edited)
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Learath2
You made a pure math claim, I responded with a pure math argument
My pure math claim still stands but two time points dont satisfy U
12:36
BUT if the LINEAR trend goes up
12:36
In 2033 we will double
12:36
So my claim might "MIGHT" even stand
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maybe its log n
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You can't make any prediction with 2 data points, any curve can fit 2 data points
12:37
I hereby say that the number of trans people is actually a sine wave, and in 2033 it'll be 0 (edited)
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Learath2
You can't make any prediction with 2 data points, any curve can fit 2 data points
No i said this based on that "gallop" article i randomly found on work pc which had somewhat linear data
12:38
Either way
12:38
Back to main topic
12:38
Dont do random treatment on kids
12:38
Unless its necessity
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It's not random
12:38
The medical professionals think it's necessary for their mental wellbeing
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Its random unless 3 different doctors from around the country talk to child without parent supervision
12:39
Also lots of kids will say anything their mothers want to hear
12:39
Young me included
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Overlord
Its random unless 3 different doctors from around the country talk to child without parent supervision
What does random mean in your mind?
12:40
For me random treatment would be just trying something absolutely random, just shooting a person with a cough
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It means unnecessary in case of medical procedurs
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With that definition yes, don't do random treatments on anyone not just kids
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Like " i have problems defecating"
12:40
Ok we will add U extra teeth to chew
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Overlord
It means unnecessary in case of medical procedurs
So don't do unnecessary procedures unless it's necessary?
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As i said bedore certain % is natural
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Do you see the issue with how you define random treatments and the two statements you gave?
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ScReeNy
and that cant be applied for transpeople or homosexuals?
No. There's hasn't been an absurd amount of propaganda for lefthanded people. Now we have come to the point where a lot of teens who "felt" different are going back to how they were.
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No way im believing population of 340mln went from 3% to 7.1% of gender sysmorphia
12:41
Dys
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@Devinci r u the one from spain?
12:42
u changed pfp right
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In just 10 years
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Overlord
No way im believing population of 340mln went from 3% to 7.1% of gender sysmorphia
It's not 3 or 7.1 for gender dysmorphia, you said it yourself, it's "non heterosexuals"
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or im confusing u
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Devinci
No. There's hasn't been an absurd amount of propaganda for lefthanded people. Now we have come to the point where a lot of teens who "felt" different are going back to how they were.
And everything payed with taxes xd
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Ryozuki
@Devinci r u the one from spain?
I am I am
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how is the study going
12:42
xd
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Devinci
No. There's hasn't been an absurd amount of propaganda for lefthanded people. Now we have come to the point where a lot of teens who "felt" different are going back to how they were.
what kind of trasn propaganda do people even mean? educational work?
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lmao decently enough. I should find some kind of job soon
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Learath2
It's not 3 or 7.1 for gender dysmorphia, you said it yourself, it's "non heterosexuals"
I said non heterosexuals but article said "people indentyfiying as lgbt"
12:42
So i lumped them
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Overlord
So i lumped them
You can't, gender dysphoria is what trans people experience, gay people or lesbian people don't experience it and won't ever be prescribed hormone blockers
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I wonder if super straight counts
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Learath2
You can't, gender dysphoria is what trans people experience, gay people or lesbian people don't experience it and won't ever be prescribed hormone blockers
U know i will drive home and instead of sleeping after sleepless night i will spend 40min to look for data regarding slukr of ONLY trans people
12:44
So see U in 1h or so
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ScReeNy
what kind of trasn propaganda do people even mean? educational work?
For example. But can be anything really. From speeches at school ( schools realy shouldn't be for that, just go to some specialized doctor if you need sexual orientation), to social media.
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Overlord
U know i will drive home and instead of sleeping after sleepless night i will spend 40min to look for data regarding slukr of ONLY trans people
You won't find anything decent, because they are such a tiny population that they weren't even properly tracked until like 3 years ago. That is how I know most of the claims you make can't have any grounded source
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I bet i can find even earlier data we will go to medieval times
12:45
Because its just like laser surgeries nothing new
12:46
Nature of world and human is cyclical so same issues appear
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Devinci
For example. But can be anything really. From speeches at school ( schools realy shouldn't be for that, just go to some specialized doctor if you need sexual orientation), to social media.
Well im not sure if u can call that propaganda. If children dont know there even is a thing like that, they cant visit a doctor for it.
12:46
(Crashes on motorbike)
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Overlord
U know i will drive home and instead of sleeping after sleepless night i will spend 40min to look for data regarding slukr of ONLY trans people
You'll find an 2017/2014 paper that tried to estimate the amount of trans people in the US and came up with 0.56% of the entire US population. You'll find the census bureau HPS statistic of 2021 at 0.6% and a final study in 2023 that estimated it around 0.6% again. All different methodologies, none refuted, none show any growth even
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ScReeNy
Well im not sure if u can call that propaganda. If children dont know there even is a thing like that, they cant visit a doctor for it.
It is propanda. Schools aren't just saying "hey Lgbtqia+ groups exists". It's a recurrent topic on almost everything. it appears through history and biology subjects all the time... And well, ofc they wont go to doctors by themselves, like everything else parents are there for something as long as they are minors (edited)
12:49
smiley face feels toxic af
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But to make you happy let's pick the extremities of uncertainty, and thus you can show a 0.1% growth on the amount of trans people from 2017 to 2023, congratulations, they'll have enough to be represented in a couple millenia
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But can u base that on anything, this is just your persuation. I also dont want to be advertised or anything, but it should be a normal part of sex ed. Unfortunally Parents fail to educate their children about some stuff.
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what to teach or not is a political issue and propaganda ofc plays a big thing there
12:51
u can influence a generation
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This one is a more interesting discussion, atleast there is something to discuss with this one
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ScReeNy
But can u base that on anything, this is just your persuation. I also dont want to be advertised or anything, but it should be a normal part of sex ed. Unfortunally Parents fail to educate their children about some stuff.
ofc I can, just need to take a look at school books. At least that's the education I got. Sex ed (for example )should be something extra. Not constantly included on other subjects. at least that'smy pov
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Well in my education i havent had that topic a single time unfortunaly (25 now). I dont think its as easy to find some data for this
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Devinci
It is propanda. Schools aren't just saying "hey Lgbtqia+ groups exists". It's a recurrent topic on almost everything. it appears through history and biology subjects all the time... And well, ofc they wont go to doctors by themselves, like everything else parents are there for something as long as they are minors (edited)
Are they actually doing this? I've only heard this from people that I wouldn't really trust to do accurate reporting. If it is an actual thing, where is it a thing?
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Devinci
It is propanda. Schools aren't just saying "hey Lgbtqia+ groups exists". It's a recurrent topic on almost everything. it appears through history and biology subjects all the time... And well, ofc they wont go to doctors by themselves, like everything else parents are there for something as long as they are minors (edited)
in what country do you go to school to experience "lgbt propaganda" ? In the time i used to go to school i cant think of a single incident where the school tried to talk about lgbt people (just my experience) (edited)
12:56
we just learned the stuff that we needed to pass exams
12:56
nothing more
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Maybe in the US it's a thing?
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in spain occasionally comes like 2 people to explain stuff
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I could see it being a bigger topic in schools, because it is just a really relevant topic in society atm.
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specially with feminism
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I doubt it, I've never heard it from anyone that didn't also support the Iraq war and think trans people are a disease
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ScReeNy
I could see it being a bigger topic in schools, because it is just a really relevant topic in society atm.
I can see it mentioned in a sex ed class, or maybe a passing remark in history if they are talking about a historical lgbtq figure. What else would you even talk about this in? There is no LGBTQ math
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I've gone to a french school, and even tho it was trying to be as neutral as possible, I still kinda received it like that. But well, maybe I'm overreacting a bit for lgbt stuff, but it's definitely there. like a lot of other political matters (edited)
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Learath2
I can see it mentioned in a sex ed class, or maybe a passing remark in history if they are talking about a historical lgbtq figure. What else would you even talk about this in? There is no LGBTQ math
biology and history
12:58
mainly
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What was mentioned that you felt was propaganda?
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oh yeah I forgot, also on languages.
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Learath2
I can see it mentioned in a sex ed class, or maybe a passing remark in history if they are talking about a historical lgbtq figure. What else would you even talk about this in? There is no LGBTQ math
We would discuss relevant topics in classes like philosophie, ethics. Or maybe its the gender neutral language for some languages that just puts this in the focus of many people so often (edited)
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Learath2
What was mentioned that you felt was propaganda?
can't exactly remember... was like 2-5 years ago :/
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Devinci
can't exactly remember... was like 2-5 years ago :/
the propaganda couldnt have been that bad then right xd?
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It was clearly not very efficient
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Knuski
the propaganda couldnt have been that bad then right xd?
Ig, but I really don't remember a lot of stuff from when I was in school, mainly vague ideas. but yeah, definitely not the worst one.
13:05
So I was trying to get my books back but wont get them for a few weeks :/
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@Devinci given ur pfp
13:08
i have this to say
13:08
13:08
actually, have you seen the manga?
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Learath2
This one is a more interesting discussion, atleast there is something to discuss with this one
But this was the topic, that came after too much human rights and before medical treatments, that theyre like army recruiters, also i didnt crash
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Ryozuki
Click to see attachment 🖼️
Mistakes into miracles
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Overlord
But this was the topic, that came after too much human rights and before medical treatments, that theyre like army recruiters, also i didnt crash
No no no, you don't get to back out of your extraordinary claims unless you retract them
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@Devinci
13:10
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You claimed a growth, nay an exponential one of the amount of trans people in the US. All the data suggests they aren't even growing at any significant rate
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Learath2
No no no, you don't get to back out of your extraordinary claims unless you retract them
Why do U assume i back out of anything?
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@Ryozuki dont stop
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Ryozuki
Click to see attachment 🖼️
this might be meme, but author is dangerously getting close to it xD
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ScReeNy
@Ryozuki dont stop
xdd
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Learath2
You claimed a growth, nay an exponential one of the amount of trans people in the US. All the data suggests they aren't even growing at any significant rate
Did an hour pass yet? Just got back home
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Knuski
in what country do you go to school to experience "lgbt propaganda" ? In the time i used to go to school i cant think of a single incident where the school tried to talk about lgbt people (just my experience) (edited)
There is plenty of „lgbt propaganda“ going on rn in the schools, whether you’ve experienced it or not (edited)
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Also @Learath2 i only want to point out one personal thing U notice when "i move goal post" but never when U do urself (no attack just pointing out)
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Iza
There is plenty of „lgbt propaganda“ going on rn in the schools, whether you’ve experienced it or not (edited)
Give example
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Overlord
Also @Learath2 i only want to point out one personal thing U notice when "i move goal post" but never when U do urself (no attack just pointing out)
Point it out when I do. All I've been doing was responding to your arguments though, no goals so no posts to move
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Iza
There is plenty of „lgbt propaganda“ going on rn in the schools, whether you’ve experienced it or not (edited)
probably also a good idea to give an example of what you mean by "lgbt propaganda"
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there is no lgbt propoganda at my school or nearby schools and i am in the us
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Source would also be nice
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Learath2
Give example
There’s stories of american teachers pushing lbtq agenda onto their students, like asking them what they’re identifying as etc
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Learath2
Point it out when I do. All I've been doing was responding to your arguments though, no goals so no posts to move
With the speed of conversation i would never be able to do so on phone but will try wherever im on pc but those convos nearly always happen on company time
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Learath2
Source would also be nice
Tucker Carlson saying it doesn't really do much for me e.g. May aswell be the CIA saying they don't do coups
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conservatives will say anything is pushing an lgbt agenda
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I also dont even understand why there should be lgbt propaganda. Nobody even wants this. LGBT People just want to live their lives
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Iza
There’s stories of american teachers pushing lbtq agenda onto their students, like asking them what they’re identifying as etc
asking what they're identifying as counts as "lbgt propaganda"? (edited)
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ScReeNy
I also dont even understand why there should be lgbt propaganda. Nobody even wants this. LGBT People just want to live their lives
facts honestly
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I used that term because screeny used it
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god, finally personal computer mustard race, idk how people can type on those screen keyboards
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Devinci
this might be meme, but author is dangerously getting close to it xD
monkalaugh 1
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Iza
There’s stories of american teachers pushing lbtq agenda onto their students, like asking them what they’re identifying as etc
honestly that's more a problem with some teachers. I was thinking more about the whole system.
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ScReeNy
I also dont even understand why there should be lgbt propaganda. Nobody even wants this. LGBT People just want to live their lives
Also yeah, it's not like it's a cult and they need members 😄
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Ryozuki
Click to see attachment 🖼️
shell nah justatest justatest
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Devinci
honestly that's more a problem with some teachers. I was thinking more about the whole system.
What system?
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Iza
I used that term because screeny used it
would you say that's lgbt 'propaganda'? to me it sounds like a teacher asking what 'luck' is to someone when studying the subject of 'luck'
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ScReeNy
I also dont even understand why there should be lgbt propaganda. Nobody even wants this. LGBT People just want to live their lives
unfortunately to have their voice heard and to push for more rights a lot of the community has to be very vocal
13:15
which honestly just leads to more polarization in the short term
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Iza
What system?
educational one. like the books they give. But I may be wrong? idk I should look into it again when I can
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The educational system is a problem of itself in many countries
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trust me that schools here do not push what youre describing as lgbt propoganda
13:17
things that align with inclusivity? for sure
13:17
but its not like propoganda is being fed to elementary schoolers
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louis
which honestly just leads to more polarization in the short term
Yea its a bit of a dilemma with most activism. But the only answer can be to keep on going
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louis
trust me that schools here do not push what youre describing as lgbt propoganda
well, would you say there is feminist propanganda at school?
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I wouldn’t use the word propaganda, i just used it to answer screeny
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Devinci
well, would you say there is feminist propanganda at school?
nope
13:18
women have an edge in academia anyways (generally)
13:18
but theres no propaganda (edited)
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Iza
I wouldn’t use the word propaganda, i just used it to answer screeny
so the answer is there is no lgbt propaganda that you know of?
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Iza
I wouldn’t use the word propaganda, i just used it to answer screeny
We were debating over whats propaganda in that regard earlier, not really sure whats the clear answer
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louis
women have an edge in academia anyways (generally)
fun fact
13:18
Adrian Mehic, a post-doctoral researcher at Lund University, analyzed the scores of 300 male and female engineering students in Sweden before and after Covid hit.
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What do you mean by propaganda
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Well, then we clearly don't agree. For me talking about topics repeatedly where there really shouldn't is propaganda
13:18
i had a physics teacher who always prefers girls
13:18
it was kind of annoying
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I do think there is a problem with people pushing the lgbt agenda onto other people yes, but propaganda is an exaggeration
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also men on university are lower and lower
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Iza
I do think there is a problem with people pushing the lgbt agenda onto other people yes, but propaganda is an exaggeration
What is the lgbt agenda?
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Decline in male college enrollment For example, male enrollment at 4-year public institutions has dropped nearly 6% more than women, according to the National Student Clearinghouse Research Center. Among all student demographics in this sector, white men experienced the sharpest decline in enrollment, falling nearly 20%.
13:19
this is an issue
13:19
that no one cares about
13:19
cuz its a men issue
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white men*
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Earlier some people said that sexual education about lgbt topics is already propaganda and thats why i used propaganda. This is clearly not my opinion tho
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do yall remember lynn
santatrollet 1
ddnet_lgbt 1
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of course
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what has lynn anything to do with this tho
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@Learath2 I should learn from journalists how to not provide data "Reliable national data on how many children receive care for gender dysphoria – defined as a feeling of distress from identifying as a gender different from the one assigned at birth – have long been unavailable"
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Devinci
what has lynn anything to do with this tho
he she was trans
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@Ryozuki do u know what affirmative action is
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Ryozuki
he she was trans
yeah I know
13:20
but still?
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Iza
I do think there is a problem with people pushing the lgbt agenda onto other people yes, but propaganda is an exaggeration
is what you gave as an example "people pushing the lgbt agenda onto other people"? (edited)
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Overlord
@Learath2 I should learn from journalists how to not provide data "Reliable national data on how many children receive care for gender dysphoria – defined as a feeling of distress from identifying as a gender different from the one assigned at birth – have long been unavailable"
As I told you, your claim has no data to back it
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louis
@Ryozuki do u know what affirmative action is
just tell me what u mean
13:21
lynn left cuz disagreements with ddnet dev iirc
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Learath2
What is the lgbt agenda?
The lgbt agenda is my perception of a current movement going on in the world right now
13:21
Whether you think that movement is good or not is up to you
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Learath2
As I told you, your claim has no data to back it
i will go bilingual route and i plan to win, unless it's impossible to win, then i will agree with U ...somewhat
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Iza
The lgbt agenda is my perception of a current movement going on in the world right now
That's a bit of a non-answer. What are the goals of this "agenda"?
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Learath2
That's a bit of a non-answer. What are the goals of this "agenda"?
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Ryozuki
just tell me what u mean
it was this thing univeristies in the USA used, was overturned recently. it's basically race-based admissions (only used in certain contexts though)
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Overlord
i will go bilingual route and i plan to win, unless it's impossible to win, then i will agree with U ...somewhat
What does being bilingual have to do with it, are you saying maybe you misunderstood the source you were quoting earlier?
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Learath2
That's a bit of a non-answer. What are the goals of this "agenda"?
make peasants busy, with imaginary problems, make them fight among each other? simple things?
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Knuski
Click to see attachment 🖼️
facts, I tried
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Learath2
What does being bilingual have to do with it, are you saying maybe you misunderstood the source you were quoting earlier?
no, im saying i can draw from atleast two different sources
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Overlord
make peasants busy, with imaginary problems, make them fight among each other? simple things?
how does the lgbt agenda lead to that 💀
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louis
how does the lgbt agenda lead to that 💀
it doesnt have to be lgbt agenda, it just currently is
13:23
U take any problem for specific group, divide people into groups and they're busy
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Overlord
no, im saying i can draw from atleast two different sources
Sure, you can use many sources for your claim, as long as you can show me any kind of significant growth beyond the uncertainty of the sources you used
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@Learath2 also U constantly said about gender treatment and im gonna draw on that too
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that's not the goal of the agenda though
13:24
for the LGBT 'agenda' it's more like pushing for inclusivity and belonging for a certain minority group
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Overlord
@Learath2 also U constantly said about gender treatment and im gonna draw on that too
Gender affirming treatment is given to trans people, you can't use lumped stats with LGB people to infer anything there (edited)
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the controversy comes as a side effect cuz some people are just close minded
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Learath2
Gender affirming treatment is given to trans people, you can't use lumped stats with LGB people to infer anything there (edited)
what, so i cant use data on puberty blockers and hormone pills?!
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Learath2
That's a bit of a non-answer. What are the goals of this "agenda"?
I am only pointing out the more extreme cases here which I don’t agree with. The goal of some of these people pushing these agendas is to for example teach their kid students something that only the parents of these kids should teach them
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Overlord
make peasants busy, with imaginary problems, make them fight among each other? simple things?
How is the problem imaginary if actual people are having it?
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Overlord
what, so i cant use data on puberty blockers and hormone pills?!
You can try, but I don't see how you can connect it to the amount of trans people in the US
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Overlord
U take any problem for specific group, divide people into groups and they're busy
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Learath2
How is the problem imaginary if actual people are having it?
problem is imaginary, like most non physical problems.
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Learath2
How is the problem imaginary if actual people are having it?
A problem can be created from nothing. not saying this is necessarily the case here
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a problem can exist by simply wanting to do something
13:26
like wanting to code in C, a segfault will appear
13:26
boom problem
13:26
trollet
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boom bus error trollet
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Devinci
A problem can be created from nothing. not saying this is necessarily the case here
The source of a problem is irrelevant to the damage it causes. E.g. I'm extremely depressed for no reason at all, am I not depressed?
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yeah and big oil company BP also coined the term carbon footprint, and instead of focusing on their own, they focused on individual person footprint :()
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Whether it's a problem I'm imagining or not, it's still harming my mental state
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@Ryozuki why notepad on linxu so weird, where regular notepads
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Learath2
The source of a problem is irrelevant to the damage it causes. E.g. I'm extremely depressed for no reason at all, am I not depressed?
Yeah, it's irrelevant, but it's the cause. If the cause is "imaginary", ie, didn't exist at first then there should have been no repercussion.
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Overlord
problem is imaginary, like most non physical problems.
i wouldn't say its non physical
13:28
at least for trans people
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louis
i wouldn't say its non physical
it is, delete humans problem solved
13:28
problems are things like laws of physics, those are problems, bodies moving, this is as much of a problem as women being unable to vote
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Iza
I am only pointing out the more extreme cases here which I don’t agree with. The goal of some of these people pushing these agendas is to for example teach their kid students something that only the parents of these kids should teach them
What are things that only parents should be teaching?
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Devinci
Yeah, it's irrelevant, but it's the cause. If the cause is "imaginary", ie, didn't exist at first then there should have been no repercussion.
the cause isn't imaginary and it's pretty easy to understand why
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they couldn't vote, now they can, give or take 400 years and they might not be able to vote again
13:29
so problem will be back, despite being previously solved
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louis
the cause isn't imaginary and it's pretty easy to understand why
Are you talking about lgbt? well, I'm not going into this.
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Learath2
What are things that only parents should be teaching?
Sexuality
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Learath2
What are things that only parents should be teaching?
how to read analog clock obviously
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Iza
Sexuality
So are you also against sex ed in schools?
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theres more arguements over characters being trans
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That’s not what I said
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Iza
That’s not what I said
So it's not sexuality being taught you have a problem with
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god why i didnt choose windows, no notepad, no paint the fuck is this
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Overlord
god why i didnt choose windows, no notepad, no paint the fuck is this
vim/emacs/nano, gimp
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Overlord
god why i didnt choose windows, no notepad, no paint the fuck is this
you on mac?
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Overlord
god why i didnt choose windows, no notepad, no paint the fuck is this
lmfao
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Learath2
So are you also against sex ed in schools?
this is as stupid as saying "are you against teaching politics at school?" it depends on the teacher because they're human and they're biased, they like to push their opinion on people
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Devinci
you on mac?
my trusty dusty lainux, that i only use for webbrowsing
👍 1
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Overlord
god why i didnt choose windows, no notepad, no paint the fuck is this
gedit is a notepad
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Learath2
vim/emacs/nano, gimp
ok but ms paint is chad
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Overlord
this is as stupid as saying "are you against teaching politics at school?" it depends on the teacher because they're human and they're biased, they like to push their opinion on people
You should focus on looking for evidence of exponential growth instead
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Learath2
So it's not sexuality being taught you have a problem with
A kid should be taught by its parents under their terms, meaning if the parents wish to teach the kid how to fit into a male or female role, then they have all the right to do so
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@Overlord leafpad is a good notepad
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Overlord
my trusty dusty lainux, that i only use for webbrowsing
use it to install windows
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Learath2
You should focus on looking for evidence of exponential growth instead
im having trouble pasting sources into "texteditor"
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either way i will just use pastebin
13:33
U will have to look at graphs on sites Urself
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Iza
A kid should be taught by its parents under their terms, meaning if the parents wish to teach the kid how to fit into a male or female role, then they have all the right to do so
Let's ignore for a second that roles have little to do with gender identity, do you still agree with that sentiment if the parents are teaching values that are frowned upon in your society?
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Devinci
Are you talking about lgbt? well, I'm not going into this.
if u understand genetics and biology then its easy to understand
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Iza
A kid should be taught by its parents under their terms, meaning if the parents wish to teach the kid how to fit into a male or female role, then they have all the right to do so
nah, teach ur kids open mindedly ngl
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idk whats going on but im just meme-ing around
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its better for them to learn the world for themselves
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louis
if u understand genetics and biology then its easy to understand
Nah, that might be the case at start. Nowadays it's more of a mental idea for the majority
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stray thoughts wont change what your body is wired to do
13:36
unless your genetics already made you susceptible in the first place
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it.. does?
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Learath2
Let's ignore for a second that roles have little to do with gender identity, do you still agree with that sentiment if the parents are teaching values that are frowned upon in your society?
As long as they’re not overdoing it to an extend that is damaging to their physical or mental state. And ofcourse as long as it is legal, that is common sense
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Nah, cultural education plays a BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG PART
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yes but the thing is we are not culturally educating children to think "you want to fuck the same gender as you"
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like, let's take depression for example. if you are depressed your body will just act differently. And that's a "mental" state
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louis
yes but the thing is we are not culturally educating children to think "you want to fuck the same gender as you"
that's the thing, I think we do ^^. Social media plays a huge part here
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Voxel
idk whats going on but im just meme-ing around
we bash linux
13:39
i want to point out, that psychotrophes or however medicine for psychatric treatment is called in anglo-saxon, can affect U for the rest of Ur life
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Devinci
that's the thing, I think we do ^^. Social media plays a huge part here
if u can find examples then sure
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Iza
As long as they’re not overdoing it to an extend that is damaging to their physical or mental state. And ofcourse as long as it is legal, that is common sense
And if the schooling system isn't allowed to touch on any of the topics that the parents deem aren't allowed, how are the kids ever supposed to know the legality or the wider societal stance on the issue?
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but imo the most youll see is .. lgbt people existing? like pictures or media of people just existing
13:39
not any sort of propaganda (edited)
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then you are just blinding yourself idk
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Devinci
that's the thing, I think we do ^^. Social media plays a huge part here
Do you actually believe you can become gay by seeing gay people in media?
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Devinci
like, let's take depression for example. if you are depressed your body will just act differently. And that's a "mental" state
Well most depression types can be looked at physically too, like looking at neurotransmitters. And for gender identity there are multiple physical factors too, this is a good explaination: https://genderdysphoria.fyi/en/what-is-gender
How do we define the concept of Gender, and how does it differ from Sex?
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children already see enough thirst traps and swimsuit models of the other gender. having a few gay people thrown in will not change anything
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@Devinci U can look with me, because they only trust math, but i only trust math after 40 years pass, because the topic is no longer "problematic/causing problems for researchers"
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Learath2
And if the schooling system isn't allowed to touch on any of the topics that the parents deem aren't allowed, how are the kids ever supposed to know the legality or the wider societal stance on the issue?
Touching topics and pushing an agenda are two very different things
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Learath2
Do you actually believe you can become gay by seeing gay people in media?
yes? it gives you an idea, that you might want to explore. If everyone next to you is gay, you may end up thinking "well, why aren't I?"
13:41
I'm not saying that by watching gay people you turn gay!!
13:41
just to be clear
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Iza
Touching topics and pushing an agenda are two very different things
give an example of pushing an agenda
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if everyone around you is gay then you might be gay as well ngl 😹
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Iza
Touching topics and pushing an agenda are two very different things
As far as I understand, they are touching the topics. I can show you the actual legislation and textbooks. If you think they are pushing something you need to show me
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louis
if everyone around you is gay then you might be gay as well ngl 😹
fair point monkalaugh
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louis
if everyone around you is gay then you might be gay as well ngl 😹
this argument reversed is not "valid" right?
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Devinci
yes? it gives you an idea, that you might want to explore. If everyone next to you is gay, you may end up thinking "well, why aren't I?"
You might want to explore it and you might figure out that you are gay, but I don't see it changing your sexual orientation somehow
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Ryozuki
this argument reversed is not "valid" right?
thats cuz being straight is a majority, idk
13:43
also i was kind of joking
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heinrich5991
give an example of pushing an agenda
I believe I already did, but for example if the teacher is asking their kid students for their pronouns, what they’re identifying as and embracing the lgbt ideologies as a whole towards kids
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ÅÅÅH ALPERNE
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Ryozuki
this argument reversed is not "valid" right?
bruh, stop using logic albiet i had a laugh
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Iza
I believe I already did, but for example if the teacher is asking their kid students for their pronouns, what they’re identifying as and embracing the lgbt ideologies as a whole towards kids
I see. if that's "pushing an agenda", then I don't think I have a problem with that
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Iza
I believe I already did, but for example if the teacher is asking their kid students for their pronouns, what they’re identifying as and embracing the lgbt ideologies as a whole towards kids
Ok, how would you handle it instead of asking them their pronouns?
13:44
(fwiw I also don't think I have a problem with that)
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Iza
I believe I already did, but for example if the teacher is asking their kid students for their pronouns, what they’re identifying as and embracing the lgbt ideologies as a whole towards kids
except the "embracing thte lgbt ideologies as whole". what does that mean?
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Learath2
You might want to explore it and you might figure out that you are gay, but I don't see it changing your sexual orientation somehow
I'm pretty sure I would have NEVER even though of the idea of changing genders if hadn't seen it before. Like a lot of teens. What I am criticising if "forcing" ideas. Like I said before, it's a bit strange that some people who swapped genders are now swapping back.
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I wouldn’t ask them their pronouns at all if I already know their biological gender. As long as no parent asks me to use other pronouns onto their kid
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Devinci
I'm pretty sure I would have NEVER even though of the idea of changing genders if hadn't seen it before. Like a lot of teens. What I am criticising if "forcing" ideas. Like I said before, it's a bit strange that some people who swapped genders are now swapping back.
This is getting a little philosophical in nature (maybe even unanswerable) but just because you don't know the possibility exists, does that make you not trans?
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It clearly it's unanswerable until we get to know more about how the brain works. so might take a couple centuries
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Iza
I wouldn’t ask them their pronouns at all if I already know their biological gender. As long as no parent asks me to use other pronouns onto their kid
What harm does asking the kid directly cause?
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img onna say now i hate gender conformity
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its like the quantum thing, if u observe it, its altered forever
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Learath2
This is getting a little philosophical in nature (maybe even unanswerable) but just because you don't know the possibility exists, does that make you not trans?
I personnaly think that unless you have a genetic disorder, then you aren't, no.
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trans is literally a genetic disorder
13:47
ngl
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it was
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in a respectful way
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unclear why it needs to be genetic
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Ryozuki
its like the quantum thing, if u observe it, its altered forever
It's a bit tough to even think about because the question in itself is unfalsifiable. I don't even know if you can design a study around it
13:48
The Game is a mind game in which the objective is to avoid thinking about The Game itself. Thinking about The Game constitutes a loss, which must be announced each time it occurs. It is impossible to win most versions of The Game. Depending on the variation, it is held that the whole world, or all those who are aware of the game, are playing it ...
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heinrich5991
unclear why it needs to be genetic
I would bet it appeared like that. Just a wild guess
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Learath cant understand that, kids are easy to manipulate, especially by parents, whom they deem best in the world untill certain age
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(I don't even care tbf, whether your lived experiences somehow changed your sexual orientation or it's black magic doesn't really matter to me)
13:48
rip 2 years streak
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Overlord
Learath cant understand that, kids are easy to manipulate, especially by parents, whom they deem best in the world untill certain age
Fwiw, @Iza was saying it should be the parents decision completely how they expose the kid to that
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heinrich5991
unclear why it needs to be genetic
well being transgender is at its core a genetic thing
13:49
do you think being transgender due to environmental factors is also valid? actually thats an interesting question
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[citation needed]
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when i get the money and time im gonna put so much effort into looking androgynous 🔥
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louis
well being transgender is at its core a genetic thing
but see? as heinrich just showed nowadays it's not that clear anymore. You can just "feel" trans
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louis
well being transgender is at its core a genetic thing
That is the leading theory, but as far as I'm aware no one managed to show a gene or set of genes that influence this, nor demonstrate any inheritability
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Human Sex (the adjective, not the verb) is broken down into three categories: Genotype: The genetically-defined chromosomal kareotype of an organism (XX, XY, and all variants thereof) Phenotype: The observable primary and secondary sexual characteristics (genitals, fat and muscle distribution, bone structure, etc.) Gender: The unobservable sexual characteristics, the internal mental model of a person’s own sex, and the way that they express it.
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Learath2
Fwiw, @Iza was saying it should be the parents decision completely how they expose the kid to that
that's also terrible
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Learath2
That is the leading theory, but as far as I'm aware no one managed to show a gene or set of genes that influence this, nor demonstrate any inheritability
a single gene might not even be the answer
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ScReeNy
Human Sex (the adjective, not the verb) is broken down into three categories: Genotype: The genetically-defined chromosomal kareotype of an organism (XX, XY, and all variants thereof) Phenotype: The observable primary and secondary sexual characteristics (genitals, fat and muscle distribution, bone structure, etc.) Gender: The unobservable sexual characteristics, the internal mental model of a person’s own sex, and the way that they express it.
where did you get that from? I would completely understand a man with XX turning trans, that's a genetic disorder. Others seems more like mental stuff
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The kid can become confused and start questioning what their pronouns even should be, which would go beyond of how the parents wish to raise their kid
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@Learath2 i found one really nice source, that i really do like, but it's extremely long, imagine reading all that D:
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rather acombination of diff genes that all influence gender
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Iza
The kid can become confused and start questioning what their pronouns even should be, which would go beyond of how the parents wish to raise their kid
@Learath2
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which still makes cents
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@Learath2 it's direct source not an article
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I understand that parents have influence on kids btw, contrary to popular belief I'm not stupid. I'm just saying I very much doubt that parents can manipulate the gender identity of a kid nor have I seen any data that might suggest it
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Voxel
cents
its a dialect
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Devinci
where did you get that from? I would completely understand a man with XX turning trans, that's a genetic disorder. Others seems more like mental stuff
from the link i sent some minutes ago.
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aww shit, link gone 5km up there
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im dumb stupid
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Voxel
when i get the money and time im gonna put so much effort into looking androgynous 🔥
do u need money
13:52
other than hair maybe
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Iza
@Learath2
and if they pick some random/"the wrong" pronouns how does that affect their life?
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@Learath2 btw remember when i said like 2h ago, that american problems always trickle down to europe
13:52
this is polish people, kneeling / lying down in memory of george floyd, who died in america, and had nothing to do with them ever
13:52
unless they're all drug addicts kekw
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Devinci
where did you get that from? I would completely understand a man with XX turning trans, that's a genetic disorder. Others seems more like mental stuff
But what about people having different chromosomes to their assigned at birth sex? Should they have to change their whole life now?
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Overlord
this is polish people, kneeling / lying down in memory of george floyd, who died in america, and had nothing to do with them ever
this seems sooo out of context. THey look like exercising
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U can google it urself, was pretty big deal among the masses
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Overlord
this is polish people, kneeling / lying down in memory of george floyd, who died in america, and had nothing to do with them ever
Okay, this is cringe, but what does that have to do with what we are discussing? I have a feeling your wider distaste of anything remotely liberal is coloring your judgement
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not the death of the guy, but them doing this
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Learath2
Okay, this is cringe, but what does that have to do with what we are discussing? I have a feeling your wider distaste of anything remotely liberal is coloring your judgement
the answer to question is same sentence, that american problems trickle to europe
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ScReeNy
But what about people having different chromosomes to their assigned at birth sex? Should they have to change their whole life now?
you mean different chromosomes that what should be "normal"? Well, they do whatever they want and feel like? I think I'm not understanding the question
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Overlord
the answer to question is same sentence, that american problems trickle to europe
What does BLM trickling down to europe have to do with transgender people?
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Learath2
What does BLM trickling down to europe have to do with transgender people?
trans people was a virus created by donald trump
GuraTinfoil 1
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Learath2
What does BLM trickling down to europe have to do with transgender people?
not blm but american problems, it's still in regard of gender dysmoprhia, U will soon start noticing it prelevant here too
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Devinci
you mean different chromosomes that what should be "normal"? Well, they do whatever they want and feel like? I think I'm not understanding the question
For example a Man that always lived as a man, but then at 16 finds out his chromosomes say he isnt by that definition. Should he now have to change his life? I disagree because chromosomes arent the only factor on identifying the sex/gender
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it's also in regard to what me and @Knuski said earlier, about keeping masses busy
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Overlord
not blm but american problems, it's still in regard of gender dysmoprhia, U will soon start noticing it prelevant here too
Could it be that maybe every human on earth can potentially experience gender dysphoria, given it's a mental issue not an american issue?
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Learath2
and if they pick some random/"the wrong" pronouns how does that affect their life?
At this point all sorts of different questions will arise. Does the kid know how to identify itself? Is the kid in the right state of mind to throw away the norms and be troubled with finding their „real“ identity? How much weight does that put onto a kid mentally? Why should a kid be concerned with their gender identity before being grown up? How much does puberty play a role in this? And many more questions. This would just trouble the kid more than it needs to, the kid should focus on more important things in their stage of life
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Overlord
it's also in regard to what me and @Knuski said earlier, about keeping masses busy
and unlike the masses you're not playing their game and are totally not focused on this discussion? 🤔 (edited)
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Learath2
Could it be that maybe every human on earth can potentially experience gender dysphoria, given it's a mental issue not an american issue?
i sometimes wonder if U're blind on purpose, if there's Trend in people drinking chlorox, there's rise in statistic of hospital treatments regarding stomach and airways
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ScReeNy
For example a Man that always lived as a man, but then at 16 finds out his chromosomes say he isnt by that definition. Should he now have to change his life? I disagree because chromosomes arent the only factor on identifying the sex/gender
No it's not. As I said before nowadays it's more of a mental idea. I'm just not sure that person would really feel like a man. But idk didn't happen to me...
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heinrich5991
and unlike the masses you're not playing their game and are totally not focused on this discussion? 🤔 (edited)
i even lose sleep to be here, but just because i said i will do so, which i regretted on my way back, especially considering im only on 2nd article
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Overlord
i sometimes wonder if U're blind on purpose, if there's Trend in people drinking chlorox, there's rise in statistic of hospital treatments regarding stomach and airways
You are talking about statistically insignificant amounts of people as if they represent anyone
13:58
There is a rise from 0 to 10, what is that in the american population, 1 in 30.000.000
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Learath2
You are talking about statistically insignificant amounts of people as if they represent anyone
ok then if gender dysmoprhia is 0.6% of population as U claimed earlier, then they're insignificant too imo
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nah, 0.6% and 3.33333333e-6% are quite different (edited)
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Yes, a very very small minority. Insignificant doesn't mean their problems are to be disregarded
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louis
do u need money
clothes
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Devinci
nah, 0.6% and 3.33333333e-6% are quite different (edited)
That aswell, a different order of magnitude of insignificance
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do they just die out, or there is simply agenda and people do it because it's trendy
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i dont want to take estrogen because i like my hair and i dont rly want boobs on me
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god i miss emos
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Voxel
i dont want to take estrogen because i like my hair and i dont rly want boobs on me
man boobs, if U have them for years, can be permanent gnycomastia
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Voxel
i dont want to take estrogen because i like my hair and i dont rly want boobs on me
if u want to secure ur hairline take estrogen NOW
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ScReeNy
if u want to secure ur hairline take estrogen NOW
facts
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i prefer my boobs to be a bit muscular tbh not too muscular but yk
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Overlord
do they just die out, or there is simply agenda and people do it because it's trendy
Changing your gender because it's trendy honestly has to be the silliest thing I've ever heard. What evidence do you have to support this at all?
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ScReeNy
if u want to secure ur hairline take estrogen NOW
justatest
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Learath2
Changing your gender because it's trendy honestly has to be the silliest thing I've ever heard. What evidence do you have to support this at all?
the image he just sent is a bit of an evidence
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Overlord
do they just die out, or there is simply agenda and people do it because it's trendy
Also notice how this graph lumped all LGBT people together and you used it, it's because you don't have any data
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Should look for other sources, but if that is true then there's clearly some impact
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If you want to change your claim that trans people are an exponentially growing demographic, we can also talk about the growing numbers of lgbt people
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Learath2
Changing your gender because it's trendy honestly has to be the silliest thing I've ever heard. What evidence do you have to support this at all?
that it's a rising trend
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Learath2
Also notice how this graph lumped all LGBT people together and you used it, it's because you don't have any data
yes i said it's from the earlier one i used at work
14:03
btw regarding picture above
14:03
i linked entire article in the "sources" im making
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Overlord
that it's a rising trend
What is this supposed to show me?
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the fact that people under 25 make 43% of the transgender population
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Overlord
the fact that people under 25 make 43% of the transgender population
That is unsettling to say the least
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and there is less people aged 25 and less than above
14:04
so minority makes nearly majority which can be shown as rising trend
14:05
as i have said U cant understand that CHILDREN will do a lot to please their parents
14:05
if Ur mom tells U to tell the doctor X and Y U will tell him X and Y
14:05
and i dont believe they spend hours making sure the kid came up with it on his/her own
14:05
bah U can even tell children it's a game and they will want to WIN thus they wont say truth
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I disagree with the fact that parents tell that to children. I doubt parents play a big role in this
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Iza
That is unsettling to say the least
Why is it unsettling? How would you expect the demographics to look like if there wasn't a problem?
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Overlord
and i dont believe they spend hours making sure the kid came up with it on his/her own
It depends on the country, but usually they do. Its a really long process actually
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Devinci
I disagree with the fact that parents tell that to children. I doubt parents play a big role in this
have U met "current" parents?
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they're children themselves imo, atleast their behavior, i have the displeasure to meet them sometimes at work
14:07
when something doesnt work for them or their children that is supplied by school
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Learath2
Why is it unsettling? How would you expect the demographics to look like if there wasn't a problem?
It becomes unsettling when you start looking at the transgender suicide rate
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I'm not really sure what group of people you are talking about... never gave it a though
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Overlord
that it's a rising trend
You are conveniently ignoring the fact that many older people probably underreported this because of the societal pressures of their time
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ScReeNy
It depends on the country, but usually they do. Its a really long process actually
kid did what U wanted, give reward - > now association is made
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Learath2
You are conveniently ignoring the fact that many older people probably underreported this because of the societal pressures of their time
ok then what U want me to do? work on one NYtimes article?
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Iza
It becomes unsettling when you start looking at the transgender suicide rate
And you think the rate is less in people not receiving gender affirming care? (It's not, atleast not by any piece of data I could find)
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Overlord
kid did what U wanted, give reward - > now association is made
I mean the talk with professionals to validate this. You have to undermine any medical professional for that claim
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also most statiscis dont include 2023
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Learath2
And you think the rate is less in people not receiving gender affirming care? (It's not, atleast not by any piece of data I could find)
Or do you think if people simply never hear about trans people they would never become trans
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ScReeNy
I mean the talk with professionals to validate this. You have to undermine any medical professional for that claim
im just basing it on my experience with doctors that maybe 1 in 10 will really care and spend time, U know, when U work as a doctor, it's kinda like fixing cars, and the scheldue is tight
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Learath2
Or do you think if people simply never hear about trans people they would never become trans
I think we shouldn’t make it such a norm, and actually help people with mental illnesses
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Overlord
ok then what U want me to do? work on one NYtimes article?
No, I want you to prove your initial claim that there is a growing amount of trans people in the US. The graph you gave in the second picture is part of one study. How is it supposed to show a time trend?
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Overlord
im just basing it on my experience with doctors that maybe 1 in 10 will really care and spend time, U know, when U work as a doctor, it's kinda like fixing cars, and the scheldue is tight
but you are not getting gender affirming care so easily xd especially as a child. Where i come from a series of therapy is needed actually
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Iza
I think we shouldn’t make it such a norm, and actually help people with mental illnesses
Provide actual help they need instead of encouraging to impact their mental state even more
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Learath2
Or do you think if people simply never hear about trans people they would never become trans
as i have said way earlier, it happens every now and then, U have it in history, be it gay or trans, bah U EVEN HAVE ANIMALS that change gender when it's required (but it actually works)
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Iza
I think we shouldn’t make it such a norm, and actually help people with mental illnesses
(It's not a norm anywhere but in conservative fantasy land, I can right now show you that there is no significant increase in the amount of trans people, atleast in the US and probably in other places too)
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Learath2
(It's not a norm anywhere but in conservative fantasy land, I can right now show you that there is no significant increase in the amount of trans people, atleast in the US and probably in other places too)
There has become a mass media attention towards it and its more socially accepted than ever
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It shouldn't be socially accepted?
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Learath2
(It's not a norm anywhere but in conservative fantasy land, I can right now show you that there is no significant increase in the amount of trans people, atleast in the US and probably in other places too)
it is a norm. If not political parties wouldn't a whole part of their program talking about it.
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It shouldn’t be accepted to ignore mental illnesses and not provide the correct help
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(I do in some sense agree that media is distracting us with this problem for max 0.6% of the population, but I don't agree with anything else you say really)
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Learath2
No, I want you to prove your initial claim that there is a growing amount of trans people in the US. The graph you gave in the second picture is part of one study. How is it supposed to show a time trend?
14:13
it's stable in older generations while it can be understandable to fall in the oldest because they die
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Iza
It shouldn’t be accepted to ignore mental illnesses and not provide the correct help
How do you decide what is the "correct help"? You obviously don't agree with the doctors assessment
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there's sharp jump in "youngest adults"
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Overlord
Click to see attachment 🖼️
You again had to resort to the lumped statistic, you can't use it, you claimed trans people are increasing, not lgbt people
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let me coin a phrase " covfefe" nobody ever did statistics for covefefe but it was known under a different name previously, now the topic grew and there's covfefe and papapax tehre is no statistics for papapax
14:14
thank You for attending my ted talk
14:15
and DSM-5 was treated as mental ilness
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Overlord
let me coin a phrase " covfefe" nobody ever did statistics for covefefe but it was known under a different name previously, now the topic grew and there's covfefe and papapax tehre is no statistics for papapax
Nice try, but trans people are a subset of LGBT, not a synonym
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so i would have to go trough mentally ill registers to check what it was refering to
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Learath2
How do you decide what is the "correct help"? You obviously don't agree with the doctors assessment
Doctors that are handling transgender treatments are not going to stop a grown person from giving them money
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Learath2
Nice try, but trans people are a subset of LGBT, not a synonym
read it again?
14:15
the topic grew so they split it
14:15
it's like IT programmer, and networker
14:15
they're all IT
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Look, I'm not the one who made the insane unsatisfiable claim, if there are no statistics for it you shouldn't have claimed it, period (edited)
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as i said, U have a term and U cant have data for that term, what people now call pentester, used to be hacker while hacker can mean bad actor today (edited)
14:16
there are statistics, U just decide there are none, because U look for specific TERM word by word
14:17
also im nearly finished with the paste
14:17
all i have left to find is the spike of puberty blockers sold and hormone pills
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Iza
Doctors that are handling transgender treatments are not going to stop a grown person from giving them money
Ok, so who decides what is the "correct help"? I'm not qualified to do it, you aren't qualified to do it (yet you somewhy feel you do have some authority on the subject), the doctors are not to be trusted either they only want money
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because those did exist before and they werent BARRED for older generation
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Learath2
Ok, so who decides what is the "correct help"? I'm not qualified to do it, you aren't qualified to do it (yet you somewhy feel you do have some authority on the subject), the doctors are not to be trusted either they only want money
that's why U organise meetings, with doctors in each country, and then they should represent their stance on it
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Overlord
there are statistics, U just decide there are none, because U look for specific TERM word by word
There are actually statistics about trans people separately btw, you just couldn't find one that fits your in brain image of them growing exponentially
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that's actually how WHO should work
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Learath2
There are actually statistics about trans people separately btw, you just couldn't find one that fits your in brain image of them growing exponentially
sure, now U say that, while just a moment ago U said there is no data pre 2017
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Learath2
You'll find an 2017/2014 paper that tried to estimate the amount of trans people in the US and came up with 0.56% of the entire US population. You'll find the census bureau HPS statistic of 2021 at 0.6% and a final study in 2023 that estimated it around 0.6% again. All different methodologies, none refuted, none show any growth even
.
14:20
and im aware it's the first google link
14:20
U will get
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Overlord
sure, now U say that, while just a moment ago U said there is no data pre 2017
There is no data pre 2017 that I could track down, but what do you think such data would show if it was tracked? It has been stable for 5 years, that's all I can find
14:21
(Your "proof" that used the wrong statistic also just starts at 2017 btw)
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@Learath2
14:21
-non farmacological treatment by american collegue of pediatricans - this is to combat Ur claim about the need of surgery/treatment as if it's life saving surgery ( living hell othwersie )
  • also it sets them on a path of no return, and i would personally like to point out that brain being a chemical computer can be affected by chemicals U consume. -
https://acpeds.org/position-statements/gender-dysphoria-in-children -archive because of a paywall Teenagers and adults under 25 make up an estimated 43 percent of the transgender population it's probably also the article U refer to when U say data is as earliest ast 2017 and it;s just 0.5 with jump to 0.6% of population https://web.archive.org/web/20230629094613/https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/10/science/transgender-teenagers-national-survey.html -LGBT Identification Has Been Stable in Older Generations, Rising in Younger Since Gallup began measuring LGBT identification in 2012, the percentage of traditionalists, baby boomers, and Generation X adults who identify as LGBT has held relatively steady. At the same time, there has been a modest uptick among millennials, from 5.8% in 2012 (when some members of the generation had not yet turned 18) to 7.8% in 2017 and 10.5% currently. The percentage of Gen Z who are LGBT has nearly doubled since 2017 https://news.gallup.com/poll/389792/lgbt-identification-ticks-up.aspx
New estimates based on C.D.C. health surveys point to a stark generational shift in the growth of the transgender population of the United States.
The percentage of U.S. adults who identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender has increased to 7.1%. This is driven by high LGBT self-identification, particularly as bisexual, among Generation Z adults.
14:21
actually focus only on first link
14:21
if U read that entire paper i will never again touch this topic
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Learath2
Ok, so who decides what is the "correct help"? I'm not qualified to do it, you aren't qualified to do it (yet you somewhy feel you do have some authority on the subject), the doctors are not to be trusted either they only want money
And on the other side of the coin you can also say, who’s qualified to tell people to embrace being a transgender and making life changing choices that could impact their mental health for their rest of their lives? (edited)
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the first one is the only real paper based on research rest are articles
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Iza
And on the other side of the coin you can also say, who’s qualified to tell people to embrace being a transgender and making life changing choices that could impact their mental health for their rest of their lives? (edited)
Sure, and I say it's the doctors and parents that should be deciding that, one is the actual authority and the other is the guardian. Definitely not you and me
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all i want U to know is language is a living thing, and even 15 years ago, male and female meant both sex and gender
14:23
but now it's not, so why do i care to prove the point that U cant see manipulation ( or refuse to acknowledge it because it's so "small")
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Overlord
if U read that entire paper i will never again touch this topic
The ACP paper?
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yes (edited)
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Sure, I'll give it a read
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btw as i have said before the trend is only on the rise, and i hope we will see each other in 10 years
14:24
just so either U or me can prove the other right/wrong
14:26
im going to sleep, because what was supposed to be 40 min turned into 100min, have a good day, and on personal note as i have said, we're not fish to change genders on demand, but astolfo is cute as fuck :v
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those last 5 words just invalidated everything you said before, gj
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Overlord
im going to sleep, because what was supposed to be 40 min turned into 100min, have a good day, and on personal note as i have said, we're not fish to change genders on demand, but astolfo is cute as fuck :v
based
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wow you almost made it from beginning to end of work
14:32
TLDR; Learath is based (edited)
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TLDR everyone has their own biases and opinions and should be accepted regardless of it (edited)
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I wanted to say something about my own observations on pornhub and xvideos but i reminded myself, that i will get scolded yet again because its public discord
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Overlord
I wanted to say something about my own observations on pornhub and xvideos but i reminded myself, that i will get scolded yet again because its public discord
what you wanted to say may also be valid for netflix shows
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Devinci
what you wanted to say may also be valid for netflix shows
Yes but opposite to netflix the thing is making more money than regular / vanilla or non degrading, but with porn we have to also account for viewers curiosity and or going to extremes like those people who go so deep regular things do nothing for them yet they still seek same high
14:35
I still think problem isnt the group itself but people around it
14:35
By the power of white girl im offended on ur behalf bb
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weed was allowed because it kills your brain for money, trannies are allowed because they kill your psyche for money
15:15
and thats a facts
15:16
you can bazaar as much as you like for freedom of speech and action, but when a person is legally allowed to destroy himself, but you keep saying that this is "personal preference" this is bullshit
15:17
@Overlord how much do you like astolfo?
15:17
dm me
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i wonder what type of content smetanolub watches on youtube
15:19
probably those dumb "anti woke" bs videos
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Overlord
I wanted to say something about my own observations on pornhub and xvideos but i reminded myself, that i will get scolded yet again because its public discord
justatest what
15:21
how do ppl have the audacity to just reveal shit like thay about themselves in public servers (edited)
15:22
and feel no guilt
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Ryozuki
Click to see attachment 🖼️
corrected that for you
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Smetanolub
you can bazaar as much as you like for freedom of speech and action, but when a person is legally allowed to destroy himself, but you keep saying that this is "personal preference" this is bullshit
you can say that about many things that are legal everywhere tbh
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Overlord
-non farmacological treatment by american collegue of pediatricans - this is to combat Ur claim about the need of surgery/treatment as if it's life saving surgery ( living hell othwersie )
  • also it sets them on a path of no return, and i would personally like to point out that brain being a chemical computer can be affected by chemicals U consume. -
https://acpeds.org/position-statements/gender-dysphoria-in-children -archive because of a paywall Teenagers and adults under 25 make up an estimated 43 percent of the transgender population it's probably also the article U refer to when U say data is as earliest ast 2017 and it;s just 0.5 with jump to 0.6% of population https://web.archive.org/web/20230629094613/https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/10/science/transgender-teenagers-national-survey.html -LGBT Identification Has Been Stable in Older Generations, Rising in Younger Since Gallup began measuring LGBT identification in 2012, the percentage of traditionalists, baby boomers, and Generation X adults who identify as LGBT has held relatively steady. At the same time, there has been a modest uptick among millennials, from 5.8% in 2012 (when some members of the generation had not yet turned 18) to 7.8% in 2017 and 10.5% currently. The percentage of Gen Z who are LGBT has nearly doubled since 2017 https://news.gallup.com/poll/389792/lgbt-identification-ticks-up.aspx
Reading this paper I was a bit confused at first since I was sure I knew APA's opinion and this was going completely against it. Then I noticed this wasn't APA but ACP. It's a weirdo conservative advocacy group of "physicians and healthcare professionals" that split off from the APA because the APA wouldn't support conversion therapy
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(The fact that it's posted on a random site and not a peer reviewed journal should have tipped me off before I started reading it tbf)
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((I still gave it a read, out of respect to you and I find it to be a fairly low quality piece of research that is full of malicious misquotes, as an example citation 31 is used for a stat in it, yet the paper in citation 31 ultimately acknowledges the novel approach to be very promising, yet that part is obviously not quoted since it doesn't fit this un peer reviewed text put out by a handful of healthcare professionals))
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louis
do yall remember lynn
worlds most annoying human
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pretty much LOL
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louis
do yall remember lynn
she was cool when she was a tw player
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i remember her trying to revolutionise ddnet testing or sth and then she ragequit cause no one heard her out
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because she didnt try and code any updates
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lynn was fucking annoying
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the only reason why half of my ideas are in ddnet was because i had to code it
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they just happened to be trans
18:09
And a mod
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Voxel
the only reason why half of my ideas are in ddnet was because i had to code it
rather that or marmare
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Voxel
rather that or marmare
Marmare ? the player?
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Knuski
i remember her trying to revolutionise ddnet testing or sth and then she ragequit cause no one heard her out
rest in deep
18:09
you wont get clipped
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cyberFighter
rest in deep
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Knuski
Marmare ? the player?
yea theyve been doing a lot of awesome editor updates
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lol didnt know my homie marmare was chill like that (edited)
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thats why i dont give recommendations, because the recommendations i have would take enough to waste a dev's time for weeks, and i sure wont do that myself lol
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its fun-ish to learn tbh i grew up on scratch and somehow that helped me
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well i have an idea for a 3D version of DDnet, with nice color's and a dance room and......
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3dracenetwork
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absolutely
18:12
i would play it.. only with RTX and 8K resolution obviously
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ive had ideas for overclocking ddnet's visuals and content but i can only code based off of other ppl starting on my own is the hardest thing
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i usually start with int main () std::cout << "Hello World!";
18:14
and go from there
18:14
not forgetting the iostream include and return obviously
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i hate hello world programs.. i wanna write programs with actual meaning! not code a game of snake when it already exists
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ha i loved those tutorial's back in the day
18:15
"hey lets code a much worse game of snake but it has colors in 600 lines of code"
18:16
nah but fr. i would love to have a few things optimized, like a better organized Friendlist, optimized Server filters and such
18:16
i was actually thinking about looking into that.. but meh, time is money and i dont have any of both
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Smetanolub
weed was allowed because it kills your brain for money, trannies are allowed because they kill your psyche for money
18:17
is this allowed
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the gif or the text? lol
18:18
the gif gets a 2/10
18:18
to many pixels
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Smetanolub
weed was allowed because it kills your brain for money, trannies are allowed because they kill your psyche for money
does the chinese government pay people in the western world to become trans to destroy the peoples' psyches? santatrollet
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ӎěłŏƞ
i was actually thinking about looking into that.. but meh, time is money and i dont have any of both
Excuses :p
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actually 😄
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ӎěłŏƞ
the gif gets a 2/10
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cyberFighter
Click to see attachment 🖼️
18:20
alright, i am off to drink tonight
18:20
have a good one yall
18:20
and @cyberFighter i hate you and your gifs
18:20
❤️
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Voxel
because she didnt try and code any updates
tbf you dont need to code your own suggestions
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Voxel
i wonder what type of content smetanolub watches on youtube
at least you didnt think i use reddit
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just give detail to them and make them flushed out
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Ravie
you can say that about many things that are legal everywhere tbh
yeah
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Smetanolub
at least you didnt think i use reddit
redditors are just incels
19:08
idk who or what you are
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Voxel
redditors are just incels
i never did use reddit and i dont use yt, only for comments sometimes
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reddit is useful, redditors are cringe
20:19
@cyberFighter erm pull out the gif!!
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louis
reddit is useful, redditors are cringe
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