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DDraceNetwork
Development / developer
Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.tw/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories — IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet
Between 2023-06-28 00:00:00Z and 2023-06-29 00:00:00Z
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fee4fae Try steam upload more often - def-
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/bin/sh ../libtool --tag=CC --mode=link x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -O2 -pipe -march=native -mtune=native -ftree-vectorize -Wl,-E -Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed -fuse-ld=lld -o pppd pppd-auth.o pppd-ccp.o pppd-chap-md5.o pppd-chap.o pppd-demand.o pppd-eap.o pppd-ecp.o pppd-fsm.o pppd-ipcp.o pppd-lcp.o pppd-magic.o pppd-main.o pppd-options.o pppd-session.o pppd-tty.o pppd-upap.o pppd-utils.o pppd-sys-linux.o pppd-chap_ms.o pppd-crypto_ms.o pppd-cbcp.o pppd-mppe.o pppd-ipv6cp.o pppd-eui64.o pppd-eap-tls.o pppd-tls.o pppd-peap.o -lcrypt -ldl libppp_crypto.la libtool: link: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -O2 -pipe -march=native -mtune=native -ftree-vectorize -Wl,-E -Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed -fuse-ld=lld -o pppd pppd-auth.o pppd-ccp.o pppd-chap-md5.o pppd-chap.o pppd-demand.o pppd-eap.o pppd-ecp.o pppd-fsm.o pppd-ipcp.o pppd-lcp.o pppd-magic.o pppd-main.o pppd-options.o pppd-session.o pppd-tty.o pppd-upap.o pppd-utils.o pppd-sys-linux.o pppd-chap_ms.o pppd-crypto_ms.o pppd-cbcp.o pppd-mppe.o pppd-ipv6cp.o pppd-eui64.o pppd-eap-tls.o pppd-tls.o pppd-peap.o -lcrypt -ldl ./.libs/libppp_crypto.a -L/usr/lib -lssl -lcrypto ld.lld: error: /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/12/../../../../lib64/Scrt1.o is incompatible with elf32-i386 ld.lld: error: /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/12/../../../../lib64/crti.o is incompatible with elf32-i386 ld.lld: error: /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/12/crtbeginS.o is incompatible with elf32-i386 ld.lld: error: pppd-auth.o is incompatible with elf32-i386 ld.lld: error: pppd-ccp.o is incompatible with elf32-i386 ld.lld: error: pppd-chap-md5.o is incompatible with elf32-i386 ld.lld: error: pppd-chap.o is incompatible with elf32-i386 ld.lld: error: pppd-demand.o is incompatible with elf32-i386 ld.lld: error: pppd-eap.o is incompatible with elf32-i386 ld.lld: error: pppd-ecp.o is incompatible with elf32-i386 ld.lld: error: pppd-fsm.o is incompatible with elf32-i386 ld.lld: error: pppd-ipcp.o is incompatible with elf32-i386 ld.lld: error: pppd-lcp.o is incompatible with elf32-i386 ld.lld: error: pppd-magic.o is incompatible with elf32-i386 ld.lld: error: pppd-main.o is incompatible with elf32-i386 ld.lld: error: pppd-options.o is incompatible with elf32-i386 ld.lld: error: pppd-session.o is incompatible with elf32-i386 ld.lld: error: pppd-tty.o is incompatible with elf32-i386 ld.lld: error: pppd-upap.o is incompatible with elf32-i386 ld.lld: error: pppd-utils.o is incompatible with elf32-i386 ld.lld: error: too many errors emitted, stopping now (use --error-limit=0 to see all errors) collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status make[2]: *** [Makefile:936: pppd] Error 1 make[2]: Leaving directory '/var/tmp/portage/net-dialup/ppp-2.5.0-r3/work/ppp-2.5.0/pppd' make[1]: *** [Makefile:803: all] Error 2 make[1]: Leaving directory '/var/tmp/portage/net-dialup/ppp-2.5.0-r3/work/ppp-2.5.0/pppd' make: *** [Makefile:524: all-recursive] Error 1 * ERROR: net-dialup/ppp-2.5.0-r3::gentoo failed (compile phase): * emake failed
10:08
@Learath2 i get this compiling ppp
10:08
do u think this is a lld specific error?
10:08
i use lld on gentoo
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looks like something was compiled for the wrong arch?
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elf32, how did that happen?
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i wonder too xD
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Well best way to check if its an lld issue is to try with ld
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can i override the linker for this specific package only
10:10
LDFLAGS="${LDFLAGS} -fuse-ld=lld"
10:10
is whati have
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Seems gcc produced 64bit objects as requested, why lld is linking them into an elf32 binary idk
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ppp version 2.5.0 Prefix...............: /usr Runtime Dir..........: /run/pppd Logfile Dir..........: /var/log/ppp Plugin Dir...........: /usr/lib64/pppd/2.5.0 System CA Path ......: /etc/ssl/certs With OpenSSL.........: yes With libatm..........: no With libpam..........: no With libpcap.........: no With libsrp..........: no C Compiler...........: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -O2 -pipe -march=native -mtune=native -ftree-vectorize Linker...............: /usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld -m elf_x86_64 -Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed -fuse-ld=lld Features enabled Microsoft Extensions.: yes Multilink............: no Plugins..............: yes CBCP.................: yes IPV6CP...............: yes EAP-TLS..............: yes PEAP.................: yes systemd notifications: no
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Yes you can override for one package
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quick guide? xd
10:13
i think i know
10:13
LDFLAGS="${LDFLAGS} -fuse-ld=ld"
10:13
right
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/etc/portage🔒 ❯ cat env/ld-linker LDFLAGS="${LDFLAGS} -fuse-ld=ld" /etc/portage🔒 ❯ cat package.env net-dialup/ppp ld-linker
10:17
configure: error: in `/var/tmp/portage/net-dialup/ppp-2.5.0-r3/work/ppp-2.5.0': configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables
10:17
xd
10:17
i think the env is incremental right? so how can i set fuse-ld back to ld
10:17
is that the correct way?
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hm this seems to happen when ldflags is wrong
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Why not use mold systemwide?
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because it may have bugs
10:33
like lld here
10:34
using mold with ppp fixed it tho
10:34
maybe i should use mold xD
10:34
iim just not sure its the best idea to use it systemwide
❓ 1
10:35
oh
10:35
in gentoo wiki they show it
10:35
LDFLAGS="${LDFLAGS} -fuse-ld=mold -Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed"
10:35
i guess ill use mold
10:36
@Learath2 what is the -O1 in ldflags?
10:36
is o2 better?
10:40
anyway fixed
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clang: symbol lookup error: clang: undefined symbol: _ZN4llvm24DisableABIBreakingChecksE, version LLVM_16
11:30
my clang broke
11:34
oh nvm
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Magical Deterministic Simulator for distributed systems in Rust. - GitHub - madsim-rs/madsim: Magical Deterministic Simulator for distributed systems in Rust.
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There is a reason even gentoo users who love messing with things don't usually replace the linker and compiler 😄
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the clang thing was cuz another unrelated reason t ogentoo
11:46
its cuz i had set manually ld library path for smth in a rust project that uses llvm
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Ryozuki
like lld here
might not be a bug, just a difference in interface
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i guess
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Specific for solo though, this problem can appear anywhere (i guess). Two players join solo server, changing map, player loses his progress in a moment. Same thing can happen with people in team.
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@Learath2 i have a coworker who met stallman and got his laptop signed
bluekitty 1
13:39
TOOBASED
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whos stallman
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@Voxel kinda like a god
13:56
autistic god
13:56
he made GNU
13:56
the c/c++ compiler: gcc
13:56
emacs
13:57
GPL
13:57
the free software foundation
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Since 1983, developing the free Unix style operating system GNU, so that computer users can have the freedom to share and improve the software they use.
13:57
Richard Matthew Stallman (; born March 16, 1953), also known by his initials, rms, is an American free software movement activist and programmer. He campaigns for software to be distributed in such a manner that its users have the freedom to use, study, distribute, and modify that software. Software that ensures these freedoms is termed free sof...
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And not to forget, pedo
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[citation needed]
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Jupstar ✪
And not to forget, pedo
proof or its fake
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I already posted it here. Ryo knows that
14:04
He protects him anyway
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Here it's even in Wikipedia
14:06
Section criticism
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oh ew i read the controversies page on the wiki
14:07
i hate this guy
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that was quick
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Jupstar ✪
Here it's even in Wikipedia
I did not find any statement that implies he's a pedophile
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Then u are a fan buy
14:08
Boy
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no
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I'm pretty sure u are not blind
14:09
So it must be the first
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please cite a sentence if you think that it's obvious
14:09
I see a controversy about him talking about pedophilia
14:09
not about him being a pedophile
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Yeah. He basically said it's ok to be pedo
14:10
And that is what a pedo days
14:10
Says
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saying "it's ok to kill people" is different from actually killing people
14:11
if you want to dilute definitions like that, sure
14:11
Pedo is nothing active
14:11
He doesn't need to fuck kids to be a pedo
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he is not pedo
14:11
he never did anything to kids
14:12
u may think he is weird sure
14:12
he did not commit any crime
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Jupstar ✪
He doesn't need to fuck kids to be a pedo
I think you need to be very clear on that. I'd guess a non-vanishing amount of people would connect "pedo" to be someone actively abusing children
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Ryozuki
u may think he is weird sure
You think way too good about people
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you go for the "possible" bad things in people to make their arguments less
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There are no good people
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by this, you are a pedo too
14:13
just cuz i think ur weird
14:14
and u like ur nephew right?
14:14
isnt this view rly diluted
14:14
but its ur view
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Voxel
oh ew i read the controversies page on the wiki
critical thinking
14:16
False accusations were made against Richard Stallman in September 2019. They started a cascade of difamatory reactions that spread like wildfire, fueled by misquotes and misrepresentation of events in mainstream headlines, blogs, and social media that ultimately led to Stallman's resignation from his positions at Mit and the FSF
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Ryozuki
and u like ur nephew right?
My niece is awesome, but i don't feel in any way sexually attracted to her, nor would I want anyone to have this kind of attitude. This is simply a red flag for me. Even if medicine would say it's not their fault
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Jupstar ✪
My niece is awesome, but i don't feel in any way sexually attracted to her, nor would I want anyone to have this kind of attitude. This is simply a red flag for me. Even if medicine would say it's not their fault
it doesnt matter how u feel
14:16
ur a pedo
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The damage done to kids is simply too big
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he also never said he feels "sexually attracted to kids" that i remember
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Ryozuki
critical thinking
bro im not gonna support with shit takes like his
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Ryozuki
it doesnt matter how u feel
It matters how i think about this topic. I can not relate to other people having sexual thoughts about kids. And because I don't like the damage done, i don't support it or support others supporting it
14:18
All of these are red flags
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Voxel
bro im not gonna support with shit takes like his
which takes
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Jupstar ✪
It matters how i think about this topic. I can not relate to other people having sexual thoughts about kids. And because I don't like the damage done, i don't support it or support others supporting it
i meant that more as in accusing someone of being a pedo, it doesnt matter according to ur arguments
14:19
u didnt do any crime, but by ur logic, that doesnt matter
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the takes on?? how he defended a sex offender??
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Voxel
the takes on?? how he defended a sex offender??
where?
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If i tell my kids killing others every day. Then it's my fault if they go on assaults
14:20
Killing others is good*
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Richard Stallman has been accused of things he did not do. Events from decades ago were dug up, misrepresented and exaggerated ad nauseam. His writings were misquoted. He has been accused of being a misogynist, a transphobic or a defender of pedophilia and sexual assault. These accusations are false.
14:20
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Bro u quote a fan page
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Jupstar ✪
Bro u quote a fan page
no, i quote the reality
14:20
ur just being misguided by cancel bros
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This is like saying CO2 is good for climate change and quoting some bullshit websites
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tbf you're not quoting anything
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I said where u can read it
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if u mean the images, its cuz i dont want to lose the format
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"do you research"
14:21
"believe me!"
14:21
(I meant @Jupstar ✪
14:21
)
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Ok Heinrich i know u are the last person to ever accept u are wrong and not a good person. But when I say at this link, in this section. Then it's basically like a quote
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what link?
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I think he refers to the controversy section of the wikipedia article on stallman
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the link i sent literally debunks the "controversies" on the section of the wiki
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What is there to debunk?
14:25
It's a quote
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In September 2006, Stallman wrote, “I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily [sic] pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren't voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing.” In 2019, after conversations with victims, he changed his opinion that it does cause harm. [117][118][119]
14:25
it seems at one point, he said "I don't think voluntary pedophilia causes harm". later, after a controversy, he reversed that opinion
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And the section after
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please tell me what I should read (edited)
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Quoting on phone sucks
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In September 2018, Stallman again attracted controversy when he wrote on his website, “However, it is normal for adults to be physically attracted to adolescents,” in a defense of convicted sex offender Cody Wilson. [120]
14:26
this?
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Yes
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yeah that
14:27
ryoz apperantly cant read so idk why he asked me where
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idk whether it's normal to be attracted to the same sex or to children, but we can look up data on that I guess. it also doesn't say anything about the morality of it AFAICT
14:29
ah, according to wikipedia, pedophilia stops at age 13? so the quote doesn't even relate to the strict sense of the word?
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Well as i explained. To me it's a red flag
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👀 wtf is going on here
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I really love IRC and logs
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moderation discussion always goes to DM
14:33
its good read it all, stallman rly likes being pedantic
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Jupstar ✪
I really love IRC and logs
❤️❤️❤️
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The article refers to the sex worker as a "child", but that is not so. Elsewhere it has been published that she is 16 years old. That is late adolescence, not childhood.
In this case, the effect of that mislabeling is to smear Wilson. It is rare, and considered perverse, for adults to be physically attracted to children. However, it is normal for adults to be physically attracted to adolescents. Since the claim sbout Wilson is the latter, it is wrong to present it as the former.
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[citation needed]
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However, it is normal for adults to be physically attracted to adolescents.
14:34
wikipedia suggests that there are no studies on this
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look on pornhub, the amount of vids with "teen" in the title
14:34
xd
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The prevalence of hebephilia within the general population is unknown. There is evidence suggesting that within clinical and correctional samples,[29][30] as well as anonymous surveys of people sexually interested in children, there are more individuals with an erotic interest in pubescent rather than in prepubescent children.[31][32]
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heinrich5991
In September 2006, Stallman wrote, “I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily [sic] pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren't voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing.” In 2019, after conversations with victims, he changed his opinion that it does cause harm. [117][118][119]
@Ryozuki voluntary pedophilia is already a red flag
14:35
How should a kid be able to decide this?
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Ryozuki
The article refers to the sex worker as a "child", but that is not so. Elsewhere it has been published that she is 16 years old. That is late adolescence, not childhood.
In this case, the effect of that mislabeling is to smear Wilson. It is rare, and considered perverse, for adults to be physically attracted to children. However, it is normal for adults to be physically attracted to adolescents. Since the claim sbout Wilson is the latter, it is wrong to present it as the former.
i almost laughed when it said she was 16
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Were u so self aware with 12?
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Jupstar ✪
@Ryozuki voluntary pedophilia is already a red flag
he changed his stance on that after someone talked him about this
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also?? no it isnt normal for adults to be attracted to adolescents?? go for someone your own age you creep
😂 1
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Voxel
also?? no it isnt normal for adults to be attracted to adolescents?? go for someone your own age you creep
society seems to like em tho, look at porn sites
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what do you mean by "normal"?
14:36
should be accepted by society? is accepted by society? happens a lot? (edited)
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saying normal also doesnt mean he says its correct tho
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In Germany there currently is lot of discussion about the church and priests abusing children and they often talk about it in their adult age firstly
14:38
If we want to talk about, what is moral. Then we can change topic
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heinrich5991
should be accepted by society? is accepted by society? happens a lot? (edited)
it isnt morally right like its insinuating a big age gap
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There is no good and evil
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Voxel
it isnt morally right like its insinuating a big age gap
so "normal" = "should be accepted by society"?
14:38
in your sentence
14:38
or the same said differently: "not normal" = "should not be accepted by society"? (edited)
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Even that is hard. Slavery was once normal
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but u dont see the irony here?
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The slaves still suffered
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he never said otherwise
14:40
for the adolescents
14:40
saying something is normal as in it frequently happens doesnt mean u agree with it
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Anyway. This discussion is too creepy. A person of public has the risk to lose his image. Be it by accident, by stupidy or what ever
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Adds teleport prediction for tees, projectiles, lasers, and hook. The client will incorrectly predict teleports with multiple exits unless sv_teleport_seeds is 1. The seeding is based on gametick a...
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a person of public?
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A person in pubic
14:42
I dunno
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any idea how one could statelessly figure out the target of a grenade/hook teleporter?
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Use tick as seed
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this opens the cheat problem
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Ryozuki
@Learath2 what is the -O1 in ldflags?
That is a flag for the linker, not for the compiler, as indicated by the -Wl, prefix
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where a cheat could help you hit the teleporter at the right time
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re: i guess discussing "taboos" being seen as bad is why they still are taboos, a self feeding cycle
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it'd be nicer if it was timing-independent
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deen
That is a flag for the linker, not for the compiler, as indicated by the -Wl, prefix
ye, i wanted to know what it does and if there is o2
14:43
i cant find any docs
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I think the game should be fully predictable
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Jupstar ✪
I think the game should be fully predictable
I agree
14:43
but it'd be nice if it was predictable for humans, too
14:43
so you don't have to time it for the correct tick
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@Jupstar ✪ it should be machine predictable imho, but not in a way a player can predict something in a obvious way
14:44
just to support prediction
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Ryozuki
@Jupstar ✪ it should be machine predictable imho, but not in a way a player can predict something in a obvious way
I don't like that. this encourages cheats
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Well then i don't have a strong opinion
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then whats the point of the random teleports
14:44
just force 1 out tele
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Any of them are better than what we have now
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Ryozuki
ye, i wanted to know what it does and if there is o2
Mostly optimize the symbol table, I haven't seen -O2 for any linker
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Ryozuki
just force 1 out tele
I think so people don't clutter so much
14:45
also, we have tons of legacy maps 😉
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Oh, lld has -O2 as well for string tail merging
14:45
and compresses debug sections
14:45
and mold? xd
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mold doesn't have it documented in their manpage 😄
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true xd
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Mold: A Modern Linker 🦠. Contribute to rui314/mold development by creating an account on GitHub.
14:47
So don't read weird guides but read the source code 😄
14:48
In the calculus of communication, writing coherent paragraphs that your fellow human beings can comprehend and understand is far more difficult than tapping out a few lines of software code that the interpreter or compiler won't barf on. That's why, when it comes to code, all the documentation probably sucks.
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I remember this back from my Gentoo times, random websites were posting weird compiler flags that make your system faster (supposedly)
14:48
without any benchmarks of course
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I probably recompiled world once or twice before I learned my lesson 😄
14:51
today i had to compile llvm 2 times
14:52
cuz llvm 16 released
14:52
but there was also a llvm 15 update
14:52
and some packages still use 15
14:52
❯ sudo genlop -t llvm * sys-devel/llvm Wed Oct 12 11:40:22 2022 >>> sys-devel/llvm-14.0.6-r2 merge time: 29 minutes and 24 seconds. Mon Nov 7 09:16:22 2022 >>> sys-devel/llvm-15.0.3 merge time: 30 minutes and 11 seconds. Mon Dec 5 12:55:12 2022 >>> sys-devel/llvm-15.0.5 merge time: 23 minutes and 43 seconds. Mon Dec 19 09:49:24 2022 >>> sys-devel/llvm-15.0.6 merge time: 23 minutes and 14 seconds. Mon Jan 9 09:18:39 2023 >>> sys-devel/llvm-15.0.6-r1 merge time: 23 minutes and 6 seconds. Thu Jan 26 09:50:32 2023 >>> sys-devel/llvm-15.0.7 merge time: 23 minutes and 11 seconds. Fri Feb 17 14:26:51 2023 >>> sys-devel/llvm-15.0.7 merge time: 25 minutes and 37 seconds. Tue Jun 27 12:29:14 2023 >>> sys-devel/llvm-16.0.5 merge time: 29 minutes and 49 seconds. Wed Jun 28 11:49:01 2023 >>> sys-devel/llvm-15.0.7-r3 merge time: 26 minutes and 3 seconds.
14:52
Deadneko
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computers are so fast nowadays. My initial Gentoo setup was on an Athlon XP, that would have taken a day probably if I didn't have to start swapping, then a few days
14:53
also i have only 1 job at 16 cores
14:54
i find its faster for me
14:54
so it was dedicated at compiling llvm
14:54
and the files are on a tmpfs on ram
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Ryozuki
also i have only 1 job at 16 cores
(1 emerge job, make at 16 threads)
14:56
most bloated are llvm, firefox, nodejs
14:56
in decreasing time
14:56
30, 15, 10
14:56
i guess nodejs builds v8 or smth
14:56
python is fast af
14:56
50 secs
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rust software is slow?
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i dont have rust compiled, i use the binary, which is probs faster because they use LTO + the BOLT
14:57
and i use rustup anyway
14:58
go also takes 1 min
14:58
rust would probs be slow af
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heinrich5991
rust software is slow?
Yes, do you have any tips to make huge Rust projects compile faster? 😄
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deen
Yes, do you have any tips to make huge Rust projects compile faster? 😄
yes
14:58
u can make a dev profile that compiles libraries dynamically
14:59
bevy suggests this for quick iterations when making games
14:59
Bevy is a refreshingly simple data-driven game engine built in Rust. It is free and open-source forever!
14:59
read
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deen
Yes, do you have any tips to make huge Rust projects compile faster? 😄
it seems to me that speed is a fundamental problem, and would need to be designed in from the get-go
14:59
I don't think you'll get large performance increases on existing software
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i rly wonder where the bottleneck in rust is, apparently its not the borrow checker
15:00
i think its rust spitting out a lot of unneeded llvm IR instructions and llvm needing to do lot more work
15:00
unneeded but make writing the compiler frontend probs easier
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deen
Yes, do you have any tips to make huge Rust projects compile faster? 😄
that being said, there are a couple of hints out there, I think. e.g. https://endler.dev/2020/rust-compile-times/
When it comes to runtime performance, Rust is o…
15:01
hmm
15:01
I think this wasn't the blog post I meant
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but rust is faster than rly big c++ projects i think
15:01
or so i heard
15:01
(comparing big projects)
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unfortunately, it's still slow
15:02
C++ isn't exactly known for its fast compilation
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deen
Yes, do you have any tips to make huge Rust projects compile faster? 😄
do you mean locally (incremental) or in CI (full builds)?
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@deen if u make heavy use of proc macros, i recommend setting the proc macro crate to build with optimizations
15:03
sqlx recommends this
15:03
i read this somewhere too in a proc macro to serialize json at build time
15:03
[profile.dev.package.sqlx-macros] opt-level = 3
15:03
Compile-time verified queries do quite a bit of work at compile time. Incremental actions like cargo check and cargo build can be significantly faster when using an optimized build by putting the following in your Cargo.toml (More information in the Profiles section of The Cargo Book)
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heinrich5991
do you mean locally (incremental) or in CI (full builds)?
full
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cache your dependency compilation, like https://github.com/Swatinem/rust-cache/
A GitHub Action that implements smart caching for rust/cargo projects - GitHub - Swatinem/rust-cache: A GitHub Action that implements smart caching for rust/cargo projects
15:05
it shaved off a couple of minutes in a big project I contribute to
15:05
but first, reduce the unnecessary dependencies, I guess :p
15:06
e.g. I found that the project depended on both async-std and tokio
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That looks promising, I played around with https://github.com/mozilla/sccache already, but wasn't that helpful
sccache is ccache with cloud storage. Contribute to mozilla/sccache development by creating an account on GitHub.
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jobs: check: name: clippy runs-on: ubuntu-latest env: CARGO_REGISTRIES_CRATES_IO_PROTOCOL: sparse steps: - uses: actions/checkout@v3 - uses: dtolnay/rust-toolchain@nightly with: components: clippy - uses: Swatinem/rust-cache@v2 - name: Clippy run: cargo clippy
15:06
xd
15:06
also use the dtolnay action
15:07
not the other everyone uses which is abandoned
15:07
it has a neat feature
15:07
with: toolchain: stable 18 months ago
15:07
u can have a window in the toolchain
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I prefer to have fixed versions that you manually upgrade
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it also supports that
15:08
but this may be e.g for a check on supported versions
15:08
toolchain: stable minus 8 releases
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@heinrich5991 could you maybe specify what your cheating concern is exactly so I can think about if it can be avoided? Are there any maps where influencing the teleport result is a huge advantage?
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Tater
@heinrich5991 could you maybe specify what your cheating concern is exactly so I can think about if it can be avoided? Are there any maps where influencing the teleport result is a huge advantage?
my cheating concern is that this can be used to influence teleporter output to get faster runs
15:18
the only way to do this would be a custom client, because we can't integrate anything like that in the ddnet client (I think)
15:19
however, if we design it in a way a human could determine the target teleporter in our ddnet client
15:19
then the cheating angle goes away completely
15:19
because there's nothing the ddnet client can't do
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I don't agree with the second part
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where does the second part start?
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lets say the teleport seed changes every time you teleport and not at other times. If the map heavily rewards teleporter rng then knowing the exit doesn't matter because you will get a new seed at the start of each run. so the human player will need to just go through every teleporter as fast as they can and hope they get good rng, even if they know the teleporter exit each time they would still need to enter another teleporter to change it which takes time, so a speedrun would effectively play the same. A cheater can know the teleport result of all teleports in the run at the time they spawn so they still have the advantage because they can just kill over and over until they see every teleport in the run is good for them.
15:24
we would effectively need to implement advanced teleport forecasting tools in order to be on par with the cheater if the seed is fixed (edited)
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I think that situation would be better
15:25
people could create third-party tools to check whether teleporters align
15:25
and then execute their run
15:25
whereas in the "dependent on tick" thing, we now introduce pixel-perfectness into the run
15:25
which isn't really possible except with letting the client steer the tee
15:25
which is something we'd like to avoid
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sure but the cheater is also dependent on the tick, they wouldn't be able to predict every teleport in the run at the start which is the same as the player
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heinrich5991
people could create third-party tools to check whether teleporters align
I guess the question is whether this tool is still a cheat. I'd say no, it's just some information you get before you start executing your run
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ok but I thought we don't allow prediction path cheats isn't this the same?
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Tater
sure but the cheater is also dependent on the tick, they wouldn't be able to predict every teleport in the run at the start which is the same as the player
yes, this means they'll need to use their tool all the time during the run
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Tater
ok but I thought we don't allow prediction path cheats isn't this the same?
at that point, I'd say this is no longer a cheat ^^
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I think you're underestimating the power of that kind of tool
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why is that?
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I can turn ddnet into a rhythm game where the player doesn't even need to know how to play
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ah
15:29
wait
15:29
I think I misunderstood
15:31
no, we don't allow to show how your tee should move
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isn't it the same as the teleport predicter? you get your velocity and position and map from debug info, you could read them in real time and put them into a third party tool (edited)
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one of them happens once and can be done asynchronously
15:34
what I want is not giving cheaters more advantages
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I still think it's reasonable to just set sv_teleport_seeded 0 on the maps where it matters.
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I'm not going to go through 2000 maps
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Tater
I still think it's reasonable to just set sv_teleport_seeded 0 on the maps where it matters.
if it doesn't matter, could we just use the solution where it's predictable?
15:36
since it doesn't matter anyway?
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I dont even know how to impliment that solution
15:37
this one is so elegant :(
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yes, in fact the solution isn't fully thought out yet (see grenades/hook)
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Tater
this one is so elegant :(
I think it's not that elegant that it depends on the tick
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lots of games already do it like this
15:37
thats where I got the idea
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which games e.g.?
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randomizing based on tick?
15:38
mario maker
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do they have teleprots? oO
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no but it's the same idea
15:38
they make a truly random seed at the start then seed it with the tick
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I don't see the advantage of doing that instead of stepping the rng each time you ask it for a random number
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because this is stateless
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also seems pretty "elegant" to me
15:39
I see
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C/C++ frontend for MLIR. Also features polyhedral optimizations, parallel optimizations, and more! - GitHub - llvm/Polygeist: C/C++ frontend for MLIR. Also features polyhedral optimizations, parall...
15:53
this reminds me of moving data in vulkan buffers
15:53
15:53
it even handles the async part
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Notice i changed the check to > 0 microseconds.. The net wait cant handle nanos, busy waiting sounds bit overkill.. Notice also, i added a comment to the issue, which might be interesting before merging fixes #6751

Checklist

  • [ ] Tested the change ingame
  • [ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
  • [ ] Tested in combination with possibly related configuration options
  • [ ] Written a unit test (especially base/) or added coverage to integration test
  • [ ] Considered ...
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indeed reminds me of vertex arrays, which are similar to pipeline layouts ^^ (edited)
16:29
(for buffers)
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@Jupstar ✪ the epic things is, this can compile to cuda IR or ROCM ir or vulkan
16:47
thats the power of MLIR
16:48
+ polyhedral opts
16:48
etc
16:49
Existing renewable energy adoption trends put us closer to 1.5C of warming than to 2.5C of warming.
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16:49
xd
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Ryozuki
@Jupstar ✪ the epic things is, this can compile to cuda IR or ROCM ir or vulkan
time to join khronos and work on next lvl graphics API
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hey where are projectiles rendered?
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Teero
hey where are projectiles rendered?
src/game/client/components/items.cpp
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ChillerDragon BOT 2023-06-28 17:17:08Z
can we get more ger2 servers?
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Do you need one for each of your clients?
🔥 3
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Hi DDNet team! can someone give me a query code that show best time on a map that occurs within 5 hours ? best time i mean rank 1
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ws-client1 BOT 2023-06-28 17:46:48Z
<ChillerDragon> @Learath2 justatest
17:49
<ChillerDragon2> there is only ger10 and ger2 and ger10 lags and ger2 has no empty server to mapvote :c
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@Ryozuki // Avoid `Option::ok_or_else` because it bloats LLVM IR. Can you verify this 😂
18:07
this is your job right, llvm ir 😄
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@Jupstar ✪ idk but there is a trick to avoid lot of monomorphication
18:10
the std does it extensively
18:10
fck i forgot the example
18:11
but for example say u have a fn accepting
18:12
pub fn a<T>(a: impl Into<X>) -> bla { let x = a.into(); // ... lots of code here! } // beter pub fn a_better<T>(a: impl Into<X>) -> bla { a_impl(a.into()) } fn a_impl(a: X) -> bla { // ... lots of code here! } (edited)
18:12
this
18:12
the generic function has a small body
18:12
so it only duplicates the least amount of code
18:13
i think its good method to reduce code size
18:13
i found it on a blog i forgot sadly
18:13
a_impl is private obv
18:14
this obviously reduces emitted ir
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i c
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i wonder if rust does this automatically sometimes
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with lto it will probably choose the best path
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best code is no code
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thought this trick heavily used in libtw2 but seems its not
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@Jupstar ✪ also its recommended to put #inline in pub methods of crates meant to be libraries
18:18
cuz inline allows cross crate inline
18:18
otherwise not
18:18
btw u can put inline in trait impls iirc
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Ryozuki
@Jupstar ✪ also its recommended to put #inline in pub methods of crates meant to be libraries
yeah, kinda annoying tbh without LTO world ends
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gerdoe
thought this trick heavily used in libtw2 but seems its not
its tryhard trick anyway 😂
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the callback and warning systems in libtw2 look tryhard
18:25
xd
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@admin can we host a gores section and also remove the kog tab btw?
18:30
lel
18:30
hi adm
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Jupstar ✪
@admin can we host a gores section and also remove the kog tab btw?
@murpi @deen @heinrich5991 @Robyt3 @Learath2 with forced accounts that we can't control this does not require active support from us anymore imo
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welcome to apple, closed ecosystem
18:34
eat or die
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i think players should be able to categorize their favorite servers
18:37
like making lists
18:37
for context
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so ddnet will go with no ddnet and kog tabs
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ye was reading i dislike the company-talk on a open source game looks so fake xd
18:37
repeated msg
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also theres filter for official servers?
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is this technically any different from fokkonaut?
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i never joined it, does it force accounts too?
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I think for most features you need it
18:40
idk either
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we shouldnt actively support these communities
18:41
this game is free: free as in money free as in open source free as in no forced accounts (edited)
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What is tonights drama?
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idk I feel like you need accounts for some gamemodes, fokkonaut seems justified because the players can store coins
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@Learath2 kog corpo speak news that accounts only
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Tater
idk I feel like you need accounts for some gamemodes, fokkonaut seems justified because the players can store coins
just to be clear, they can do what they want idc we just should not actively promote these communities
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Ok how does that concern us?
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its already a pain that they are closed source
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Learath2
Ok how does that concern us?
kog tab in ddnet client
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Learath2
Ok how does that concern us?
i can never play gores again?
18:42
it concerns me a lot
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Jupstar ✪
i can never play gores again?
Ok how does that concern us as in ddnet?
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@Learath2 kog tab promotes this
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Learath2
Ok how does that concern us as in ddnet?
well without gores i basically dont play this game
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replace kog tab for unique ty
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we need to make a good alternative to kog, so the gores community can continue without this bullshit
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I mean complaining at kog people would be a better use of your time in that case, no?
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no, ddnet has control over client
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I suspect thats not true lol
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also we shouldnt promote a community with forced accounts, optional is ok, but this looks like info laundering project
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Jupstar ✪
we need to make a good alternative to kog, so the gores community can continue without this bullshit
I don't think we can. @heinrich5991 thinks we are too much of a monopoly already, he would never approve a hostile takeover of the gores community
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Ryozuki
also we shouldnt promote a community with forced accounts, optional is ok, but this looks like info laundering project
Having interacted with kog people before I highly doubt it's a info laundering scheme. They just probably got bored of not being to enforce any rules
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people who dont want to share their info or have a fingerprint (account) cant play gores now
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Learath2
I don't think we can. @heinrich5991 thinks we are too much of a monopoly already, he would never approve a hostile takeover of the gores community
@heinrich5991 pls dont have this strong opinion, @heinrich5991 pls dont have this strong opinion, @heinrich5991 pls dont have this strong opinion, @heinrich5991 pls dont have this strong opinion, @heinrich5991 pls dont have this strong opinion, @heinrich5991 pls dont have this strong opinion, @heinrich5991 pls dont have this strong opinion, @heinrich5991 pls dont have this strong opinion, @heinrich5991 pls dont have this strong opinion, @heinrich5991 pls dont have this strong opinion, @heinrich5991 pls dont have this strong opinion, @heinrich5991 pls dont have this strong opinion, @heinrich5991 pls dont have this strong opinion, @heinrich5991 pls dont have this strong opinion, @heinrich5991 pls dont have this strong opinion,
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Learath2
Having interacted with kog people before I highly doubt it's a info laundering scheme. They just probably got bored of not being to enforce any rules
doesnt matter
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i cant even ping him, lel
18:45
or i pinged his role
18:45
xd
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Learath2
I don't think we can. @heinrich5991 thinks we are too much of a monopoly already, he would never approve a hostile takeover of the gores community
kog was always a pain bcs they never updated... now they finally did, and start new shit xD
18:46
lets just get monopoly, who cares
18:47
open source monopoly 😬
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Fwiw if I was hosting a network it would be accounts only too. Not very identifying accounts but accounts only
18:47
The only thing I despise more than breaching privacy is edgy children. It drives me mental
18:48
These 10 year olds coming to this discord after getting banned for botting bragging about how they evaded their bans make me want to put my fist through my monitor
18:48
the only annoying ones for me are the wanna be coders trying to make bots
18:49
makes me lose faith in new gen coders
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Not being able to enforce any rules is so annoying when managing a community
18:50
You can't steer the ship at all. It's sinking and the best you can do is get more mods to bucket the water out of the ship
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@Learath2 well trouble wouldnt stop
18:50
a dedicated troll can do lots of acc
18:50
proxies
18:50
etc
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Anyway, we were planning to drop the kog and ddnet either way, maybe it's a good motivator for someone to code an alternative
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buy some nigerian princes to skip captcha cheap
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Learath2
Anyway, we were planning to drop the kog and ddnet either way, maybe it's a good motivator for someone to code an alternative
Why though
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murpi
Why though
its deeply discussed
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Ryozuki
@Learath2 well trouble wouldnt stop
I would so ID everyone with their real government ids. I seem to have gotten too old for the internet shenanigans
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see t he issue
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sort browser by gamemodes instead @murpi (edited)
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murpi
Why though
People don't like that we promote any server at all
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Learath2
People don't like that we promote any server at all
wasnt the plan just to rename it
18:52
to community
18:52
and even add other communities xD
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Nah, I think in the issue the best we came up with was to add groupings in the Internet tab
18:52
best clan
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Learath2
Nah, I think in the issue the best we came up with was to add groupings in the Internet tab
Oh, that's nice I guess
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the master server itself is already an authority of sorts by enforcing bans and rules
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I made some concepts a long time ago for a different server browser style but no one gave feedback so idk if people want it. https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/5665#issuecomment-1198110266
As the discussion at #5654 depends on a lot of things, different problems and opinions. I'm creating this issue to propose the idea to implement filtering by game modes for all tabs. This is no...
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ooh i like this!
19:22
maybe this will get ppl to play other gamemodes more
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ChillerDragon BOT 2023-06-28 19:26:02Z
@Learath2 if you make up rules in a online game where you fully control the server software and can't enforce them. You should drop the rules imo.
f3 1
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I can enforce them, but not without making the privacy nuts mad
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ChillerDragon BOT 2023-06-28 19:26:46Z
rules is just a legacy leftover from the offline world
19:26
online games should be anarchy
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chiller is alive
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Voxel
maybe this will get ppl to play other gamemodes more
like teesmash, the best mod
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ChillerDragon BOT 2023-06-28 19:27:53Z
jopsti ddnet has gores maps so all good right?
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i also found out i have a map in kog
19:28
i forgot totally
19:28
xdd
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ChillerDragon BOT 2023-06-28 19:28:16Z
the deep fried
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ChillerDragon: no u
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ChillerDragon BOT 2023-06-28 19:28:21Z
wo
19:28
t
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DDNet client is now 100€, I reserve all rights to revoke your server privileges with no refund
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ChillerDragon BOT 2023-06-28 19:28:25Z
it has
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There all rules are now enforceable
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Ryozuki
like teesmash, the best mod
So true
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ChillerDragon BOT 2023-06-28 19:28:44Z
lerato being edgy once again
19:29
jopsti wats ddnet gores missing?
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You were the one who said if you can't enforce it they should be removed. I've shown that they can be enforced thus there is no need to remove them
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ChillerDragon BOT 2023-06-28 19:30:07Z
ok go enforce em then
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Can I start by enforcing the no more than 4 tees rule on you?
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ChillerDragon BOT 2023-06-28 19:30:36Z
making ddnet client more expensive than free is instant playerbase drop
19:30
oh no
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ChillerDragon: all insane, all mind maps, 99% fliplipp, ckis maps, bzw maps
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ChillerDragon BOT 2023-06-28 19:30:44Z
im quiet
19:30
rules good
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basically all cool
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ChillerDragon BOT 2023-06-28 19:30:51Z
dont enforce all
19:30
thank
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ChillerDragon: and chillerdragon 18
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ChillerDragon BOT 2023-06-28 19:31:08Z
so u miss maps?
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the best map
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ChillerDragon BOT 2023-06-28 19:31:12Z
cring
19:31
then take goresmaps.zip
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Ryozuki
like teesmash, the best mod
teesmash underratrd
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ChillerDragon BOT 2023-06-28 19:31:24Z
put on ddnet maps discorc channel
19:31
and submit
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i wish ppl could play teesmash with me
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lmao
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i would smash some tees (@Voxel)
i wish ppl could play teesmash with me
19:32
i wanna smash twinbop so bad
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Voxel
i wish ppl could play teesmash with me
I’ll play teesmash
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A teeworlds mod. Contribute to timazuki/TeeSmash development by creating an account on GitHub.
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botondus
i wanna smash twinbop so bad
get out of here sp
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timazuki = timakro + ryozuki
19:32
best name
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never (@Voxel)
get out of here sp
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also ddnet gores is missing mutual strong and no weapon buffering
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whats with all the japanese shit
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🐀
🦔 1
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i need to get rats🐀🔥🔥
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what are the improvements?
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Ewan
also ddnet gores is missing mutual strong and no weapon buffering
ddnet has a config for this now
👍 1
19:33
atleast the strong
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Ewan
what are the improvements?
? its the og mod, i made with it with timakro
19:33
im blind
19:34
2016
19:34
👴
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why horse
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ChillerDragon BOT 2023-06-28 19:35:26Z
he tate enjoyer
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ChillerDragon BOT 2023-06-28 19:37:13Z
19:37
horse
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ChillerDragon BOT 2023-06-28 19:37:26Z
u posting mysagonistic emojis
19:37
ban
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fuck that guy
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Voxel
How cool would it be if maps had area boxes that could color correct the screen? This is post processing BTW Pulsar called it useless but ngl I think this would make maps feel more immersive
thinking about making an editor concept art for this too
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ChillerDragon
Click to see attachment 🖼️
thats a chess knight
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ChillerDragon BOT 2023-06-28 19:41:00Z
yes
19:41
kd4
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Voxel
How cool would it be if maps had area boxes that could color correct the screen? This is post processing BTW Pulsar called it useless but ngl I think this would make maps feel more immersive
entered the mexican border i see
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cyberFighter
entered the mexican border i see
cant believe it.. breaking bad map
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ChillerDragon
Click to see attachment 🖼️
top g 👍
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@Ryozuki :(
19:47
it took more than 2 mins?
19:47
or 1 min
19:47
i forgor
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Dunno, probably a minute
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what r utrying to do
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Fetch Pipous favorite partners
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ChillerDragon BOT 2023-06-28 19:52:18Z
hot
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Jupstar ✪
where did u got the client from btw?
Github ddnet I think
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Smetanolub
Github ddnet I think
did u forget to build in release mode?
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Anyone know where a local server stores sqlite database? I can't find it (edited)
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Config dir
20:55
Everything that is written, is config dir
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ok but the sqlite file in that directory is empty and yet my server is still showing ranks
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old versions seem to write directly in game folder
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it seems like they get saved in the sqlite-wal file but I have no idea how you're meant to view those (edited)
21:45
opening the .sqlite file is empty
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Here is my proposal, any client dev want to implement the client part for DDNet + KoG as we have them now? Then I'll implement the serverside part: https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/5654#issuecomment-1612162585
The current situation is unfair to good faith server owners whose servers don't have the checkmark, a more healthy way is to provide a way to apply to have the checkmark or be added to this new...
f3 2
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what is your opinion on #5665 ?
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As the discussion at #5654 depends on a lot of things, different problems and opinions. I'm creating this issue to propose the idea to implement filtering by game modes for all tabs. This is no...
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@ChillerDragon
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Tater
what is your opinion on #5665 ?
Oh, I didn'T see that, looks cool
22:42
but still prefer my proposal 😄
👍 1
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251edfd Continue sleeping, with cl_refresh_rate if packet waked client up - Jupeyy 0e72dc3 Merge #6781 - bors[bot]
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Ok.
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@cyberFighter did you see my boomerang idea
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nope
23:43
idk if i did actually
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Voxel
ok so basically the boomerang will have a different gameplay style, but still similar you click to throw the boomerang, and it goes to its max distance before heading back to you. if you're running the boomerang adapts to your velocity too. if it hits a ground tile, reaches its lifetime limit or if its too far away from you, it will stop flying and despawn
here
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Voxel
here
would it go clockwise or counterclockwise
23:44
or just straight
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cyberFighter
would it go clockwise or counterclockwise
itd probably depend on velocity
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using shift + leftclick with an empty brush on a hookthrough shortcut deletes only the unhookable block, using shift + leftclick with an air brush correctly deletes both of the tiles https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/assets/107697448/f48454bf-5466-4c30-bda4-e5f7b9cee021 this also creates these weird fake hookthrough tiles !image
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ok put it as an issue now
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which one? @Tater
23:58
ah wtf
Exported 618 message(s)