DDraceNetwork - developer

Is there a way to change the gravity in my map?

ask in #questions or #mapping

Oh ok

09:03

Thanks

dont ask me why but for whatever reason i reimplemented bash word split and quotes in javascript...

09:57

!sh echo hello"world''"

helloworld''

!sh x='$HOME'

09:58

!sh echo $x

$HOME

!sh x="$HOME"

09:58

!sh echo $x

/home/pi

!sh ls LICENSE;ls *.md;ls "Docker'file"

LICENSE

09:58

README.md

09:58

ls: cannot access '/home/pi/Docker'file': Permission denied

close enough xd

09:59

!sh ;;

-bash: syntax error near unexpected token `;'

Easy peasy

10:00

Now write a javascript engine in bash for ultimate troll

holy fuck

10:00

thats impossible in a human life time

Xd

jk its 10lines of bash cuz bash op

!sh rustup

bash: rustup: command not found

this guy

!sh curl --proto '=https' --tlsv1.2 -sSf https://sh.rustup.rs | sh

bash: curl: command not found

!sh apt install curl

E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend - open (13: Permission denied)

10:02

E: Unable to acquire the dpkg frontend lock (/var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend), are you root?

!sh sudo apt install curl

sudo: a password is required

install curl

10:02

!sh wget

bash: wget: command not found

no u

10:02

u dl virus

No rust no ryo

!sh function wget() { : ${DEBUG:=0} local URL=$1 local tag="Connection: close" local mark=0 if [ -z "${URL}" ]; then printf "Usage: %s "URL" [e.g.: %s http://www.google.com/]" \ "${FUNCNAME[0]}" "${FUNCNAME[0]}" return 1; fi read proto server path <<<$(echo ${URL//// }) DOC=/${path// //} HOST=${server//:} PORT=${server//:} [[ x"${HOST}" == x"${PORT}" ]] && PORT=80 [[ $DEBUG -eq 1 ]] && echo "HOST=$HOST" [[ $DEBUG -eq 1 ]] && echo "PORT=$PORT" [[ $DEBUG -eq 1 ]] && echo "DOC =$DOC" exec 3<>/dev/tcp/${HOST}/$PORT echo -en "GET ${DOC} HTTP/1.1\r\nHost: ${HOST}\r\n${tag}\r\n\r\n" >&3 while read line; do [[ $mark -eq 1 ]] && echo $line if [[ "${line}" =~ "${tag}" ]]; then mark=1 fi done <&3 exec 3>&- }; wget http://example.iana.org/

bash: function: command not found

f

10:04

!sh lynx -dump http://www.google.com

Google

Search the world's information, including webpages, images, videos and more. Google has many special features to help you find exactly what you're looking for.

10:04

is it broken

bash: lynx: command not found

!sh echo a

a

!sh /usr/bin/printf 'GET / \n' | nc www.google.com 80

bash: /usr/bin/printf: command not found

!sh which printf

which: no printf in (/home/pi/.cargo/bin:/home/pi/.nvm/versions/node/v18.16.0/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games)

!sh echo 'GET / \n' | nc www.google.com 80

GET / \n | nc www.google.com 80

wot

10:04

i forgot to put printf in right place

10:05

!sh printf

printf: usage: printf [-v var] format [arguments]

!sh (echo 'GET /'; echo ""; sleep 1; ) | telnet www.google.com 80

bash: (echo: command not found

10:05

bash: sleep: command not found

10:05

bash: ): command not found

oh

10:05

u removed everything

10:05

but if u cant do anything its boring

i didnt add everything yet*

10:05

its just running my javscript claiming to be bash xd

10:06

so its a safe honeypot and u got potted mate

10:06

but yea its so amazing that you can build wget in 10 lines of bash

10:06

i actually used that once to fix broken apt

nobo

!sh bash -c 'bash --version; echo just curius'

unsafe bash

!sh echo $BASH_VERSION

5.1.4(1)-release

Lies

xd

12:54

!sh BASH_VERSION="trust me bro"

12:54

!sh echo $BASH_VERSION

trust me bro

!sh a=1; b=2

12:58

!sh echo $a $b

1 2

!sh echo !sh echo $$b

!sh echo

!sh printf %d 1

%d

1

!sh which sh

/usr/bin/sh

!sh $a$b

bash: 12: command not found

!sh a=s; b=h

13:01

!sh $a$b --version

unsafe bash

!sh which awk

which: no awk in (/home/pi/.cargo/bin:/home/pi/.nvm/versions/node/v18.16.0/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games)

!sh timeout 0 $a$b --version

bash: timeout: command not found

(I can stop if playing with pentesting isn't appropriate)

13:07

!sh c=;; echo $c

-bash: syntax error near unexpected token `;'

wot lerato that should work xd

13:09

ok my printf tests are not very elaborate tbh

!sh which find

which: no find in (/home/pi/.cargo/bin:/home/pi/.nvm/versions/node/v18.16.0/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games)

!sh PATH=

13:09

get fucked xd

13:09

!sh which which

which: no which in ()

:p

rffontenelle

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #6556 Readd cargo to Arch Linux dependencies in README.md

Previously I replaced "cargo" with "rust" in the Arch Linux's list of dependencies in the README (d10c4480) in order to use rust package directly, instead of the 'provides=cargo' flag feature. This turned out to not be beneficial, because rustup package also has 'provides=cargo' flag, which means that both rust and rustup packages are satisfied when installing 'cargo'; howeve...

!sh ls /usr/bin | head -2

apt

13:10

bash

13:10

cat

13:10

chmod

13:10

max output ...

pipes are still wip

XD isn't | head working

no

13:11

im suprised it didnt say unsafe bash xd

oh ok good you have the max output... limit

!sh PATH=/usr/bin:/bin:/games

13:11

xd

Is it rm -rf / time yet?

!sh command -v reboot

/usr/bin/reboot

rm isnt supported very well

13:12

im still focussed on the input parser so pipes redirects quotes etc

!sh which unlink rmdir

which: no unlink in (/usr/bin:/bin:/games)

!sh which rmdir

which: no rmdir in (/usr/bin:/bin:/games)

but you shouldnt be able to break stuff @Learath2 xd

13:13

so rm all you want

I'll find a v8 zero day

!sh which mv

which: no mv in (/usr/bin:/bin:/games)

yikes

!sh echo 'oops file trucated' > hopefullynewfile

!sh cat hopefullynewfile

oops file trucated

!ls hope*

!sh echo FATAL: EXPLOIT FOUND

FATAL: EXPLOIT FOUND

!sh ls hope*

hopefullynewfile

!sh echo gettruncatedagain > hopefullynewfile

13:17

!sh echo 'isthisappended?' >> hopefullynewfile

13:17

!sh cat hopefullynewfile

oops file trucated gettruncatedagain isthisappended? >

hahaha your truncation is broken XD also no '>>'

13:18

!sh echo $PPID

24411

!sh command -v kill

/usr/bin/kill

!sh ls -l /proc/self

ls: cannot access '/proc/self': Permission denied

!sh echo 1; echo 2

1

13:21

2

!sh /usr/bin/true --version

bash: /usr/bin/true: command not found

!sh which true

which: no true in (/usr/bin:/bin:/games)

yea im currently refactoring the whole redirect thing is a bit of a buggy implementation

13:25

!sh kill $PPID

bash error

xd

lol did it kill anything?

it self? xd

13:26

no wait

13:26

ppid is parent right?

13:26

pid is $$

PPID is parent yes

!sh echo $$

24410

!sh ps

PID TTY TIME CMD

13:26

24410 pts/1 00:00:00 bash

13:26

24614 pts/1 00:00:00 ps

!sh who

bash: who: command not found

what is who?

13:27

a "w"

13:27

i only use w xd

!sh w

bash: w: command not found

:p

it seems that you only allow programs you specifically selected

13:28

!sh echo bash --version > abcdef1234985

13:29

!sh . ./abcdef1234985

bash: .: command not found

!sh source ./abcdef1234985

bash: source: command not found

!sh which env

which: no env in (/usr/bin:/bin:/games)

!sh ENVVAR=val printenv ENVVAR

bash: printenv: command not found

!which ln

13:31

!sh which ln

which: no ln in (/usr/bin:/bin:/games)

!sh python -V

bash: python: command not found

!sh which xargs

which: no xargs in (/usr/bin:/bin:/games)

!sh which chmod

/usr/bin/chmod

!sh -ls -l abcdef1234985

bash: -ls: command not found

!sh ls -l abcdef1234985

-rw-r--r-- pi pi Apr 30 10:10 abcdef1234985

!sh chmod +x abcdef1234985

13:36

!sh s=/; echo $s$sa${s}a

//a

!sh echo .${s}abcdef1234985

./abcdef1234985

!sh eval 'a=1; echo $a; a=2; echo $a'

bash: eval: command not found

:p

!sh .${s}abcdef1234985

bash: ./abcdef1234985: command not found

!sh ls -l abcdef1234985 # remember this one tho?

-rwxr-xr-x pi pi Apr 30 10:10 abcdef1234985

!sh cat <<EOF hey $(ls) hmm EOF

cat: <<EOF: No such file or directory

!sh alias echoe=bash

bash: alias: command not found

!sh which make

which: no make in (/usr/bin:/bin:/games)

!sh echo "$@"

$@

!sh echo $0

!sh wget

bash: wget: command not found

!sh ping

bash: ping: command not found

!sh ls

.env

14:11

Dockerfile

14:11

LICENSE

14:11

README.md

14:12

max output ...

14:12

cat: Dockerfile|: No such file or directory

14:12

unsafe bash

!sh cat Dockerfile

unsafe bash

wow

14:13

!sh which nc

which: no nc in (/usr/bin:/bin:/games)

!sh ls /bin

bash

14:13

cat

14:13

chmod

14:13

dmesg

14:14

max output ...

@ChillerDragon you could maybe do a block of code instead of spamming multiple messages

14:18

!sh echo test > /dev/udp/149.202.19.227/8603

14:18

lmao do u think it would work

14:18

!sh echo "toto" > /dev/udp/149.202.19.227/8603

14:19

nop, ig u made it so u can't send packets

@ReiTW how?

14:46

i dont know how to send multiple lines from irc

you can't

sad noises

IRC only allows single-line messages, by design

and discord doesnt accept blocks of code if its a single message right?

14:46

only those

heinrich5991

IRC only allows single-line messages, by design

Can't he pass \n?

multi\nline xd

IRC's protocol is line-based

Maybe discord will format it

each message is separated by a newline

14:47

no

Ah

IRC messages look like this:

14:47

JOIN #ddnet

14:47

PRIVMSG #ddnet :hello, world!

14:48

QUIT

the only good chat protocol

Aah

Truly a great chat protocol

@Ravie @Pipou @marmare_314 I updated the screenshots in https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/6546#issuecomment-1533261655. What about the "Refocus" button? Seems redundant, as is just goes to (0,0) which you can also do with "Goto".

move some editor buttons into menus by Marmare314 · Pull Request #6...

The entities and unused buttons are now in a new "Settings" menu. The border and goto buttons got moved to the "Tools" menu. Checklist Tested the change ingame Provided scr...

@Robyt3 it looks like goto 0, 0 is on the tile and not coord 0, 0

do mappers use refocus often and is it useful that it's different from goto?

I use it often for quad stuff, idk about others

15:41

at exactly 0, 0 parallax has no effect

What do you think about moving the Anim and Move buttons together with the other buttons that they toggle?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35791205

informalo

Building a Compiler with Multi-Level Intermediate Representation (MLIR) (2020) [pdf]

16:57

Q6T46nT668w6i3m 22 hours ago | next [–]

>

I love MLIR. The modularity and friendly abstractions make it incredibly flexible. I've now used it to write multiple domain-specific optimizations and transformations for some of my recent research! It truly bridges the gap between different devices (CPUs, GPUs, TPUs, etc.). I pray more people adopt it so it doesn't end up abandoned!

16:57

@Jupstar ✪ MLIR on hn yesterday xd

please, can you stop with spam bot here? It's getting annoying to read all the feed just to see garbage...

i agree a bit xd

17:03

the bot is simply not fun

PostmarketOS booting let's hope it works

@Chairn send #off-topic bridge then

17:08

postmarket pog

im no admin here

me neither

17:09

@admin

17:09

@admins

17:09

we need more bridges

17:10

gimme a webhook token and ill host

17:11

we can make the irc channel mute by default so no moderation needed

Ryozuki

@Jupstar ✪ MLIR on hn yesterday xd

ez

Robyt3

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #6557 Add tests for `CPacker` error handling, fix minor bug, minor refactoring

Closes #6525.

Checklist

[X] Tested the change ingame
[ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
[ ] Tested in combination with possibly related configuration options
[X] Written a unit test (especially base/) or added coverage to integration test
[ ] Considered possible null pointers and out of bounds array indexing
[ ] Changed no physics that affect existing maps
[ ] Tested the change with [ASan+UBSan or valgrind's memcheck](https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNOBOL

SNOBOL

SNOBOL ("StriNg Oriented and symBOlic Language") is a series of programming languages developed between 1962 and 1967 at AT&T Bell Laboratories by David J. Farber, Ralph E. Griswold and Ivan P. Polonsky, culminating in SNOBOL4. It was one of a number of text-string-oriented languages developed during the 1950s and 1960s; others included COMIT an...

17:37

@Jupstar ✪ @Chairn are u SNOBOLs?

17:38

          OUTPUT = "This program will ask you for personal names"
          OUTPUT = "until you press return without giving it one"
          NameCount = 0                                            :(GETINPUT)
AGAIN     NameCount = NameCount + 1
          OUTPUT = "Name " NameCount ": " PersonalName
GETINPUT  OUTPUT = "Please give me name " NameCount + 1 
          PersonalName = INPUT
          PersonalName LEN(1)                                      :S(AGAIN)
          OUTPUT = "Finished. " NameCount " names requested."
END

(edited)

wtf

https://frame.work/blog/announcing-the-framework-laptop-13-powered-by-amd-ryzen

Announcing the Framework Laptop 13 powered by AMD Ryzen™ 7040 Series

We're using Ryzen 5 7640U and Ryzen 7 7840U processors, both of which offer incredible CPU and GPU performance. These are both pre-orderable now.

17:41

@Jupstar ✪ kek

17:41

today is ryo news day

they so expensive

17:42

that u probably better bew a new one after a few years xd

xd

17:43

it has upgradable

17:43

graphics

17:43

xd

bors[bot]

[ddnet:master] 5 new commits

f24d755 Add windows_utf8_to_wide and windows_wide_to_utf8 - Robyt3 bc7c347 Use std::string for windows_format_system_message - Robyt3 b7a0f12 Log error message in cases where only GetLastError is logged - Robyt3 d34ed69 Use windows_utf8_to_wide and windows_wide_to_utf8 - Robyt3 ab83a04 Merge #6555 - bors[bot]

17:53

bors[bot]

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #6555 Add convenience functions to convert between UTF-8 encoded strings and wide character strings on Windows

Robyt3

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #6558 Bors publicly hosted instance is deprecated

bors comments

The publicly hosted instance of bors-ng is deprecated and will go away soon. If you want to self-host your own instance, instructions are here. For more help, visit the forum. If you want to switch to GitHub's built-in merge queue, visit [their help page](https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/configuring-branches-and-merges-in-your-repository/configuring...

quick question, is it possible to implement a mac address detection into the ddnet client?

technically yes sure everything is possible

18:05

or do you mean by is it possible server side? or if it would be merged into official client?

18:05

then no i would assume

ChillerDragon

or do you mean by is it possible server side? or if it would be merged into official client?

merged into the client

doubt

it's not possible?

i do not think it would get merged

18:06

but i do not make that decision so..

@Learath2 is that something open for discussion?

if your motivation is ban tracking or something like that itll just cause botters to downgrade client or bot devs to mod the client

mac can be faked

yes that too

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/MAC_address_spoofing

MAC address spoofing

18:08

arch wiki

ye ik

18:08

but why spoof if you can just change the open src code xd

18:09

@Iza for that do you need it?

ChillerDragon

if your motivation is ban tracking or something like that itll just cause botters to downgrade client or bot devs to mod the client

i've come to the conclusion that alot of botters aren't the brightest light bulbs

oh so for that

18:10

but all bot devs will send random macs

18:10

so the botters can stay stupid

18:10

and still bypass

18:11

also i share a physical device with my brother Konsti and he uses a lot of bots

technically bot devs can spoof anything, and if done right then they can keep the bot client undercover, but its not often done right. Mac address would serve as an extra factor on top of alot of other factors to determine botters and ban evaders

yea maybe

18:13

question is do we want to waste network bandwith, dev time, code complexity, privacy on some finger printing war

depends

i could add it to chillerbot-ux if u want :)

ban

18:13

no mention bots

hrhr

whats chillerbot ux

virus

18:14

https://chillerbot.github.io/

18:15

download here

18:15

xd

18:15

its my fork of ddnet which has like 1 user

that definitely doesnt look sketchy

:p

18:16

i didnt pay the web dev

18:16

maybe there could be a ddnet ext msg thats only for fingerprinting

18:17

and the server can send it if wanted

18:17

to request all kinds of info that could be extended

18:17

to start a nice fingerprint war with botters

18:17

good ol cat and mouse

ChillerDragon

its my fork of ddnet which has like 1 user

i dont trust using this

imo stuff like that can be fun. but ddnet is more on the serious side than on the fun side

sounds like a good war

18:18

all this wouldnt be needed if we just had an account system xd

oh boi

18:18

botters just make new accs

ye but it takes time and effort for them

18:18

more than our current thing we have

and the more time and effort it takes to start playing w out account

18:19

the more annoying it is for casuals and new players

how would it be more annoying? you just register once, login and play

how would it be time and effort to bot? you rust bot, register again, login and play

18:19

rust* xd

18:19

axaxax

18:20

freudian typo

if its an email account system, then they would have to create an email everytime

i see

18:20

or u use the + hack xd

or if its linked with steam, they'd be having to make a new steam account on top of that

chillerdragon+bot1@gmail.com

ChillerDragon

or u use the + hack xd

i think you can counter that

if steam is needed to play on ddnet id quit ddnet xd

then you're not a true ddnet fan

i just play the ddnet version w out steam then i mean

anyway account system would be better in general

18:25

for me it takes like 5 seconds to ban a botter, while it takes them several minutes to create a new account

Accounts in ddnet justatest

how do you even know someone is a botter?

several factors which i won't discuss about

wow..

18:27

just transform those factors into code and auto ban

18:27

then it takes 0 seconds

im not a dev

then discuss the factors in this dev channel xd

Checksum I think

is it even sent?

that would give bot client devs the opportunity to note it, like this individual @Mʎɹ シ

ah u mean in the finger print thingy

18:28

yea

I think it hard for spoof, I tried, need spoof a lot of stuff, then yea, It can be used for auto ban I think

bors[bot]

[ddnet:master] 6 new commits

ef48a2f Use sizeof(int) instead of 4 - Robyt3 fd4491b Use bool instead of int - Robyt3 f6015be Add default parameter for CPacker::AddString - Robyt3 8794cc9 Add tests for packer error handling - Robyt3 c5e336f Fix off-by-one error when adding raw data to buffer - Robyt3 b3f384f Merge #6557 - bors[bot]

18:43

bors[bot]

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue closed: #6525 Refactor packer error

18:43

bors[bot]

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #6557 Add tests for `CPacker` error handling, fix minor bug, minor refactoring

Iza

technically bot devs can spoof anything, and if done right then they can keep the bot client undercover, but its not often done right. Mac address would serve as an extra factor on top of alot of other factors to determine botters and ban evaders

kinda stupid thing to solve in open-source

19:00

quake had the same problem after making code public

Iza

@Learath2 is that something open for discussion?

this sort of protection is pointless for an opensource game, it's just a single line to edit out in the code, trivially bypassed, and old clients won't even support it

carmack just said "open-source preventing antibot is useless" and went straight with closed sourced antibot check

There is not much point to discussing it as it'd be useless no matter how you look at it, malicious people just won't update their clients or use a "cracked" one

http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/quake-cheats.html

The Case of the Quake Cheats

19:03

1999 -> 2023

19:03

24 years passed

19:03

like

19:03

there is no actual solution

gerdoe

http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/quake-cheats.html

heyt

19:04

you quoted a good blog

19:04

i recommend reading this http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html

i remember you sent this like year ago

19:04

or half year ago

19:05

alzheimer

lol

19:06

ye i see protecting an open source software from unwanted code like cheats is not something easy fixable

gerdoe

alzheimer

yep

19:07

its that good

19:07

it aligns with what i think so hard

Iza

ye i see protecting an open source software from unwanted code like cheats is not something easy fixable

honestly, the only approach that is even worth pursuing imho is the approach noby took, try detect it at the server

Learath2

honestly, the only approach that is even worth pursuing imho is the approach noby took, try detect it at the server

noby antichots is not perfect either, you should monitor every value and use nobybot to test them troll

Supplement it with accounts so you can make it extra annoying for banned people to evade

To follow the path: look to the master, follow the master, walk with the master, see through the master, become the master.

yeah master branch

change master to "ddnet dev"

19:10

xd

ddnet server coding is easy until you don't need any external resources xd

19:11

so you should mess up with client

Learath2

Supplement it with accounts so you can make it extra annoying for banned people to evade

i see you're pro account

19:12

btw are accounts still being discussed or is it settled?

I'm not only pro account, I'm pro annoying accounts as well, add multiple layers of verification

accounts are always discussed xd

19:13

but never done

Learath2

I'm not only pro account, I'm pro annoying accounts as well, add multiple layers of verification

yess that would be so good

its a move for ddnet 2 (written in rust^tm)

19:13

!rust

@Ryozuki

I imagine a day where you can set a server +m<n> where n is the level required to chat, 0 only requiring an account, 1 requiring a verified email, 2 requiring linked steam, 3 requiring verified phone

4 requiring a ddnet code contribution

But it's all a dream, we are too privacy conscious to ever do phone verification

5 praying to stallman

19:15

6 using gentoo

19:15

7 asserting rust over C

My true dream is governments letting us do zero-knowledge real person verification. That would be soo, soo good

Learath2

But it's all a dream, we are too privacy conscious to ever do phone verification

how to store any sensitive personal information tho

Learath2

My true dream is governments letting us do zero-knowledge real person verification. That would be soo, soo good

Use a bot client, bye banned forever. If you want to get back in you write a 300 word essay apologizing to all members of the community

i mean data leaks every day from different spots of our planet

Learath2

Use a bot client, bye banned forever. If you want to get back in you write a 300 word essay apologizing to all members of the community

its so hard it seems

gerdoe

i mean data leaks every day from different spots of our planet

happening*

btw how did the last attempt to implement accounts fail?

but alas, it's all a dream, zero-knowledge real person verifications are not a thing and I'm the only one that thinks they aren't draconian

Learath2

but alas, it's all a dream, zero-knowledge real person verifications are not a thing and I'm the only one that thinks they aren't draconian

its possible

19:19

with a goverment backend ofc

Iza

btw how did the last attempt to implement accounts fail?

I think deen wanted to make a simple account system with ddnet2 but people wanted too much from ddnet2 in exchange for letting us have accounts

Learath2

I imagine a day where you can set a server +m<n> where n is the level required to chat, 0 only requiring an account, 1 requiring a verified email, 2 requiring linked steam, 3 requiring verified phone

usually it's the other way around, at least at the hardware level

Learath2

I think deen wanted to make a simple account system with ddnet2 but people wanted too much from ddnet2 in exchange for letting us have accounts

how about we make implementing an account system, not ddnet2

19:20

its just ddnet with accounts, no further discussion needed

like 0 is machine level, you can do absolutely everything, 1 is os level, 3 is user level

Iza

how about we make implementing an account system, not ddnet2

The old guard wants cake in exchange for their ranks not being moved to their new accounts

Chairn

like 0 is machine level, you can do absolutely everything, 1 is os level, 3 is user level

thats the rings

Learath2

I think deen wanted to make a simple account system with ddnet2 but people wanted too much from ddnet2 in exchange for letting us have accounts

couldve just not taken all the advice as features that we want immediately, but just take it slowly, implement a basic account system and the build upon it from the ideas given by the community

actually, i'd be ok to reset everything as long as old ranks are still accessible somewhere

im also okay with it as long as i can flaunt i was in the old days

i just hit 10k points and i also would be okay with a reset

or this

Chairn

actually, i'd be ok to reset everything as long as old ranks are still accessible somewhere

You don't have enough ranks to matter, are you even r1 in an insane? Opinion rejected

i used to though

19:22

i think i was r1 on Hellcore for some time

Get it back and we can talk about it

i was r1 on arabic nights

19:22

someone stole it

if you reset ranks first, i can get it back faster *taps head*

Learath2

You don't have enough ranks to matter, are you even r1 in an insane? Opinion rejected

how many ranks btw? im not even in top100 points anymore

reseting might give me motivation to play more actually

can i get a bonus due to my old ddnet age?

19:25

this year, on 28th of july will mark my 10th anniversary

Chairn

actually, i'd be ok to reset everything as long as old ranks are still accessible somewhere

+1, publish demos all declined accepted maps and ranks xd

19:26

some kind of heinrich's archive

demos will take huge space

19:26

my folder is already 15+GB

19:26

11.9GB of demos

theyre easily compressed

19:26

but not in ddnet sizes tho

Learath2

this sort of protection is pointless for an opensource game, it's just a single line to edit out in the code, trivially bypassed, and old clients won't even support it

btw when i think about it, if the bot client would have the line removed, it would just exposed themselves this way

like how

19:27

client-side protection is no gain

Chairn

11.9GB of demos

compress

Chairn

how many ranks btw? im not even in top100 points anymore

Idk, you need to ask the current r1 holders if they consider your opinion valid

with lzma

ok, zip 9 reduces demos size by 75%

server-side protection is too hard to since all inputs are known

zip bad

sorry, im on windows only

oof

Chairn

sorry, im on windows only

7z

zstd probably better

dont talk to me or my kids

def-

[ddnet-web:master] 1 new commit

e1f2c7a Remove GER10 from stats - def-

What happens to ger10 stats?

Iza

btw when i think about it, if the bot client would have the line removed, it would just exposed themselves this way

that's really pointless, open-source or not

21:32

the program asks the operating system for the mac address, I'm sure there are plenty of "mac address spoofers" out there that lie to the program on behalf of you

heinrich5991

the program asks the operating system for the mac address, I'm sure there are plenty of "mac address spoofers" out there that lie to the program on behalf of you

i'm thinking about how many of the botters would actually do that, when half of them dont even change their ingame name when evading

Iza

i'm thinking about how many of the botters would actually do that, when half of them dont even change their ingame name when evading

once you start banning for it, every one of them

they would need to have a good amount of knowledge about what ddnet is sending to the server, and on top of that, how to spoof their mac address

21:40

and speaking from my experience, not alot of them have a good amount of knowledge

which they get from the cheat developer

21:41

if they don't know a lot, you can simply IP ban them

most of them know one thing, and its to restart the router for a new ip address tho

21:41

i mean, everyone knows that

yes, and why do they know it?

21:41

because they need it to evade a ban

21:42

if you somehow manage the impossible task of transferring the mac address of the network card to the ddnet server, guess what everyone will learn?

21:42

the same way people learn how to change their IP address

21:42

I mean, it might be a good teaching opportunity, I guess

how are they going to be able to pinpoint on what exactly exposed them?

21:43

what if they think they're ip range banned

21:43

or what if they think, the antibot system detected them again

because it just takes a single person to figure that out

21:44

and then distribute that knowledge with the cheat client

there's alot of rather obvious stuff that the bot users and bot devs dont know yet. I'd take the chance to add a new fingerprint factor and see what happens

because we aren't autobanning for it

21:46

ok, onto more practical factors

21:46

1) the mac address thing will just be spoofed by bot clients directly

i didnt suggest autoban for it, just additional server info that can get dumped for the mods

2) this has privacy implications that I don't think we should shoulder

21:47

just by discussing it here, people are going to know about it when we add it

heinrich5991

1) the mac address thing will just be spoofed by bot clients directly

maybe with that, they will unknowingly create a pattern which is detectable for us

21:48

it could happen

heinrich5991

2) this has privacy implications that I don't think we should shoulder

i dont see mac address much of a privacy breach

21:48

its a randomized number depending on your hardware

21:48

and drivers

it's constant for a single person

21:49

not dependent on your drivers, only on your hardware (edited)

heinrich5991

it's constant for a single person

the moderators already get much more privacy breaching information besides mac address

we're already in breach of the gdpr, let's make it worse?

21:50

I don't get that argument

i dont get why mac address would be a privacy breach, it doesn't correlate to any location, personal info or anything else

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/what-is-personal-data/can-we-identify-an-individual-indirectly/

Can we identify an individual indirectly from the information we ha...

21:52

If an individual can be identified from that MAC address, or other information in the possession of the network operator (the business, in this example), then the data is personal data. Additionally, even if the business does not know the name of the individual, using a MAC address (or other unique identifier) to track a device with the purpose of singling out that individual or treating them differently means the data is also personal data.

im not an expert on the uk gdpr, i just made a suggestion that would make some things much easier for moderators

thanks for making that suggestion

21:55

I tried responding why I think it's an unworkable idea on multiple layers

alright understood

21:57

i saw some other game had mac address tracking, thats why i thought of it

21:58

and they're much bigger than ddnet, i don't know how they're compliant with the gdpr

Iza

i saw some other game had mac address tracking, thats why i thought of it

the new hip thing is to take the serial number of the hdd, hash it together with the cpu model and the gpu model

Learath2

the new hip thing is to take the serial number of the hdd, hash it together with the cpu model and the gpu model

so i guess that's bypassing the gdpr?

Iza

so i guess that's bypassing the gdpr?

No, big companies just make you sign an EULA letting them handle that data, under gdpr you can store that kind of data if the user lets you

22:05

you just have to follow a couple formalities like guaranteeing that you'll delete them if requested by the user and some other things I don't remember

ohh yeah i see

22:09

but i guess ddnet wouldnt like such things

22:09

to have an eula

Even then, something like this can only work for us if we disallow all old clients (won't happen the pro players would sooner send a pipebomb to our houses) and we try to only allow the ddnet.org/steam versions of the pre-built cliend (won't happen @Ryozuki will curse us with a prayer to stallman)

alright alright i get it, mac address wont be a thing

22:25

or any unique identifier for the ddnet client

s/cliend/client/

Iza

or any unique identifier for the ddnet client

Be not saddened, it honestly really wouldn't last long except against the naivest of players, authors of popular bot clients seem to follow our work on antibot/ban measures quite closely, it'd take a couple minutes for them to patch it out

22:28

I think some form of accounts should be our target as any form will help a lot with both moderation and new feature possibilities

Learath2

Be not saddened, it honestly really wouldn't last long except against the naivest of players, authors of popular bot clients seem to follow our work on antibot/ban measures quite closely, it'd take a couple minutes for them to patch it out

yea i guess thats the inevitable truth

Learath2

I think some form of accounts should be our target as any form will help a lot with both moderation and new feature possibilities

yes, an account system is long due

22:35

we would just need to discuss the specifics as a community on it

22:36

and for it not to be cancelled like last time