DDraceNetwork - off-topic

DDraceNetwork

DDraceNetwork / off-topic

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Between 2022-10-20 00:00:00Z and 2022-10-21 00:00:00Z

now everything's fine ._.

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xD asking on Quaver chat if it's a osu!mania clone be like

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15:17

When u can visit it on a casual day

15:17

greenthing

scrumplex

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kinda hard to disagree with Lenny, everyone is everyone

15:26

if you start a list, you'll 100% miss some...

15:26

and nobody would read the list anyway

yeah but "Your "everyone" is not everyone's "everyone""

15:32

I think at this point we are playing with the language

Everyone doesn't mean everyone is a new level of mental gymnastics

sjw everyone != normal everyone

CoCs suck

15:48

They move useful discussion from smart people into pointless wars

15:48

Just be nice

2

If you've lost me you are doing something wrong. I'm like woke, I get called a sjw clown regularly

And often people most involved on CoCs are not even part of the dev/community i tell u

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every possible thing in existence

@Scrumplex https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/252358080522747904/1032674523922837575 and following messages

gerdoe

scrumplex

scrumplex

gerdoe

scrumplex

the idea behind the CoC is to protect minorities. Saying "everyone" has vastly different meanings depending on where you are from

17:28

especially if some people start calling other people "subhumans" or whatever

Honestly though I also know the intention of the guy removing that exposition sentence. No sane person without bad intentions would ever touch a CoC with a 60ft pole. It's a political minefield

I am not really the spokesperson of the Contributor Covenant, but the only people that are really negatively impacted by it are intolerant people (edited)

17:29

And many experienced community managers and moderators have told me that tolerating the intolerance will invite more introlerance

This is true-ish. There is really no downside to contributor covenant. I just dont see much of an upside either

Learath2

This is true-ish. There is really no downside to contributor covenant. I just dont see much of an upside either

In any case. Nuking a project because you didn't like the CoC is dumb

No it's not just dumb. It's flat out batshit insane

In any case. I didn't really come here to discuss the topics I had been dealing with since Monday

17:38

I haven't used Steam, YouTube or streaming platforms since all of this happened :|

what happened

louis

what happened

Have you heard of PolyMC?

no

It's a Minecraft launcher

17:39

Me and some other people were maintaining it

17:40

The owner of the GitHub org and Discord went crazy, kicked out all developers, because he "wanted to free polymc from leftoid queer ideology" or something like that

17:41

Fun fact: that guy has pushed a total of 30 commits to the repo ever since it was forked from another launcher at the end of last year

17:41

(Many of those were README changes)

17:41

The only reason he was admin/owner was, that he created the initial fork together with someone else

that is an L

17:42

he thinks he has power lol

Yeah

cant you start a v2 or smth?

So the kicked maintainers (me and the others) have forked PolyMC

17:42

Now we got 3x the Discord members

17:42

and the GitHub repos are more active than ever basically

nice lol

We were mentioned in multiple news articles

17:43

even Mojang staff tweeted about the situation

17:43

https://www.pcgamer.com/minecraft-launcher-project-spins-out-of-control-after-dev-hijacks-it-to-fight-leftist-queer-ideology/

Minecraft launcher project spins out of control after dev hijacks i...

The hijacker purged all other devs but now insists everything is fine, actually.

17:43

https://www.ign.com/articles/hijacking-of-popular-minecraft-launcher-by-rogue-developer-raises-malware-fears

Hijacking of Popular Minecraft Launcher by Rogue Developer Raises M...

PolyMC, a third-party Minecraft launcher, has been the subject of a hostile takeover after the owner revoked access from contributors, raising fears that the launcher may be unsafe.

17:43

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/10/if-you-use-polymc-for-minecraft-you-should-switch-away-now/

If you use PolyMC for Minecraft you should switch away now

Unfortunately, it seems a developer on the Minecraft launcher PolyMC went completely rogue and so for your own safety, you should remove PolyMC from all systems.

17:43

https://twitter.com/search?q=PolyMC (edited)

Scrumplex

I haven't used Steam, YouTube or streaming platforms since all of this happened :|

Yeah, these people get pretty agressive. Which is why I wouldn't touch a CoC issue with a 60ft pole

Scrumplex

the idea behind the CoC is to protect minorities. Saying "everyone" has vastly different meanings depending on where you are from

that's why people use dictionnaries as common ground

poggers2

1

Chairn

that's why people use dictionnaries as common ground

yeah but there are different dictionaries depending on where you are from

17:57

like let's be honest: There is no use in shortening a CoC as no one is going to read it anyway

well, english is the base language, so i guess oxford dictionary is a good start

at least that's my experience after managing a Discord server with 120 boosts

Scrumplex

like let's be honest: There is no use in shortening a CoC as no one is going to read it anyway

then there is no point in having a coc

Chairn

then there is no point in having a coc

well no one reads laws

17:57

yet we have laws

Scrumplex

like let's be honest: There is no use in shortening a CoC as no one is going to read it anyway

If you take that approach there is no point to having a CoC at all. Which is kinda where I stand

Scrumplex

well no one reads laws

i do?

17:58

jurist do all the day

Chairn

jurist do all the day

yes

17:58

and so do community managers (reading CoCs) (edited)

I am confused so the community managers wouldn't know that everyone is everyone? (edited)

I am not saying that CoCs are a must, but if you are working in an environment where there are known miniorities that are being discriminated against then a CoC is a good idea

17:59

because CoCs give moderators a basis to punish people

18:00

Like no court can punish you, if your crime wasn't deemed a crime by some kind of rulebook

18:00

be it a law or previous ruling

how about no mention of those at all? do you have any experience with such approach?

yes

18:00

it doesnt work

too bad

People will start accusing mods that they ban people "for no reason"

18:00

just because "someone made a joke"

Harrassment is harrassment. Why does a certain type of harrassment need to be specifically mentioned anyway?

Learath2

Harrassment is harrassment. Why does a certain type of harrassment need to be specifically mentioned anyway?

that's not what Contributor Covenant focuses on

18:02

The main idea is highlighting what not to do

18:02

because even stuff deemed fine by most people isnt really fine

18:02

Good example: Chinese social credit memes

18:02

I know some Chinese people and they don't like that meme (edited)

At what point does a subgroups dislikes become disallowed for the entire group? A lot of humor is at the expense of some group or the other

Learath2

At what point does a subgroups dislikes become disallowed for the entire group? A lot of humor is at the expense of some group or the other

It's a fine line to walk

18:04

and at the end that's the responsibility of the mods (edited)

If 10% of a population dislikes something, should there be a law to disallow that thing? Idk I don't think this is how society should operate

Learath2

If 10% of a population dislikes something, should there be a law to disallow that thing? Idk I don't think this is how society should operate

But those 10% should maybe think about that thing

18:06

Is it really funny?

Scrumplex

It's a fine line to walk

Anyway, you didn't want to discuss this. Feel free to just stop at any point

Or are we discriminating people, as they will not participate in our society because of these jokes (edited)

18:06

Like minorities often stay minorities, because of discrimination

18:06

So if we want to stop discrimination we need to point out those issues

18:07

just a blanket "everyone" and "all harrassment" isn't enough

Scrumplex

Is it really funny?

Some people call me a roach. I don't find it particularly funny, but I don't really believe there needs to be a rule to protect me from it

I think there is a difference between making fun of minorities and calling people bad things

18:09

Like people arent calling you are a roach, because you are one of those people that have a 2 in their name

Scrumplex

I think there is a difference between making fun of minorities and calling people bad things

There is a difference in the nuance, but should there really be any difference in the punishment?

Learath2

There is a difference in the nuance, but should there really be any difference in the punishment?

no

18:09

if you are insulting people in public you should be punished

18:09

but if you are insulting a group of people, it should be more severe

If two people are insulting eachother and neither particularly care about the other getting punished by some third party. Should there still be punishment?

Scrumplex

if you are insulting people in public you should be punished

FUCK YOU ASSHOLE where is my punishment

banhammer

3

Scrumplex

Like people arent calling you are a roach, because you are one of those people that have a 2 in their name

isn't that racism?

Learath2

If two people are insulting eachother and neither particularly care about the other getting punished by some third party. Should there still be punishment?

they shouldn't do that in public in the first place

Jupstar ✪

FUCK YOU ASSHOLE where is my punishment

f3

18:11

there is nuance yes (edited)

I do get you in some sense and I don't get you in some other. I guess I just might have been online way too long

Jupstar ✪

FUCK YOU ASSHOLE where is my punishment

no u

18:14

tthere's your punishment

lol

18:14

Thing is

18:14

We are dealing with actual bad people right now over at our Discord

18:14

People who directly attack particular groups

Just ban them?

1

we do

18:15

We would do without the CoC as well

This isn’t a court of law. You don’t need to cite a part of the CoC to ban someone

18:15

You just right-click, and ban

I guess you could say the CoC has a symbolic meaning

18:16

New people can look at the project and see the CoC and be sure that we will try to keep them safe in our community spaces

Scrumplex

I guess you could say the CoC has a symbolic meaning

Yes, this is what I gather aswell. It’s more a political statement more than anything imo. Either way at the end of the day it’s the mods enforcing the rules whose values will be reflected onto the community

18:17

Anyway, was just curious how you felt about it that’s all

Yeah CoC aren't a taboo topic for me

18:18

Because no CoC is perfect

18:19

To be honest, I wouldn't mind if I could just work on developing the project itself instead of doing moderation on the side

No set of rules is ever complete. The more we make it rigorous the more the trolls look for loopholes. I’m more of a spirit of the law kinda person

18:20

When the rulebook says “don’t be an ass” it’s quite clear what the underlying intention was. No it doesn’t mean don’t be an ass to everyone that you consider human. It means don’t be an ass to everyone

Learath2

When the rulebook says “don’t be an ass” it’s quite clear what the underlying intention was. No it doesn’t mean don’t be an ass to everyone that you consider human. It means don’t be an ass to everyone

do you think someone who has been harassed before will deem this as "enough"

Isn't the end result the same (a ban) so isn't it the same "enough"?

Mr.Gh0s7

Isn't the end result the same (a ban) so isn't it the same "enough"?

No this isn't about moderation

18:22

this is about someone who was harassed because of their gender or something reading the CoC of a project

18:22

will they be comfortable joining the server?

Scrumplex

do you think someone who has been harassed before will deem this as "enough"

If they don’t think my enforcement of it is adequate they can let me know or just leave if they don’t like the community. Communities are optional things. If you don’t like the heads of the community and their understanding of “don’t be an ass” then you probably don’t want to be there to begin with.

18:23

Atleast that’s my position on it. If I feel uncomfortable somewhere, or don’t trust that the leaders will keep me safe, I just leave

Learath2

Atleast that’s my position on it. If I feel uncomfortable somewhere, or don’t trust that the leaders will keep me safe, I just leave

but you have places to go to

18:23

not everyone does

Wym? There are thousands of open source projects out there

The Minecraft community is probably pretty safe generally

18:24

but some Linux communities are

18:24

"concerning"

Learath2

Wym? There are thousands of open source projects out there

Yeah but this isn't just about FOSS

18:24

Like there are only a handful of minecraft launchers with vastly different feature sets (edited)

Well do you really have to contribute to a community that you think is a toxic cesspool?

Learath2

Well do you really have to contribute to a community that you think is a toxic cesspool?

Most CoC don't just apply to the bug tracker

18:25

Most apply to all channels

18:25

i.e. Discord servers

18:26

IRC channels

18:26

whatever

I guess I’m just too dense. I really just don’t interact with communities I don’t like. I use the tool and I move on. E.g. the zig community, absolute cesspool, but the language is interesting to me. I just use it as a tool and don’t contribute anything. Their loss honestly

18:28

Eh, who am I to judge. If people feel safer with a CoC they feel safer with a CoC. Doesn’t really matter what I think

tbh a CoC makes me nervous bcs of the time I've spend in fng I've became naturally trolly so I fear that I will break it even tho that wasn't my intention

Just don’t be discriminatory and they’ll usually let slight agression slide has been my experience in projects with CoC’s

18:32

If it’s hard not to be discriminatory with your language, you kinda have a bigger problem

well it's not much of a problem since I am only involved with ddnet and somewhat with godot kek

kek

Let’s add a CoC to ddnet, @Ryozuki would love it

f3

troll

oh shit

18:35

i missed a convo while at gym

18:35

CoCs are cancerous (edited)

18:35

just be nice

Ryozuki

i missed a convo while at gym

Don’t go to gym, you are a programmer…

or a redditor

Learath2

Don’t go to gym, you are a programmer…

well gym is going pretty well i would say

Stop before you lose your connection to anime and Rust

and Dota

imagine being a gigachad that likes rust an anime

18:36

thats the goal

Ryozuki

just be nice

I don't really want to start any controversies. But the DDnet community doesn't have a track record of being nice (edited)

gigachad

<-- Ryozuki's goal

@Learath2 i recommend u go to the gym, at first its tiring, then it becomes routine, then u feel bad if u dont go, and then u wanna go and not miss it

Not saying that a CoC will magically fix that

its a weird adventure

18:37

this has been me for a year and half

pepecry

<-- Ryo when no anime or Rust

Ryozuki

@Learath2 i recommend u go to the gym, at first its tiring, then it becomes routine, then u feel bad if u dont go, and then u wanna go and not miss it

I workout at home every other day. I just have too much social anxiety for commercial gyms

also it rly boosts ur mood, and self confidence

18:38

not gonna lie

Scrumplex

Not saying that a CoC will magically fix that

CoC fixes everything

Learath2

I workout at home every other day. I just have too much social anxiety for commercial gyms

i was also anxious of going to gyms first

monkalaugh

but u learn to not care

Cellegen

CoC fixes everything

you talking about Clash of Clans right? /j (edited)

justatest

Scrumplex

I don't really want to start any controversies. But the DDnet community doesn't have a track record of being nice (edited)

ddnet doesnt need a coc

18:39

it needs a cock!

Even @Cellegen initials are Clash Royale

or a cuc

Ryozuki

it needs a cock!

There is no boosting my mood or my self confidence. All that awaits me is a lonely death in front of a computer. I’ve recently come to terms with it

Learath2

There is no boosting my mood or my self confidence. All that awaits me is a lonely death in front of a computer. I’ve recently come to terms with it

it boosts it

18:39

but it takes a while

18:40

i would say afte 4-6 months

18:40

u start to notice it

18:40

specially if u see urself improve

18:40

thats the biggest

It’s snake oil. If it didn’t boost your mood yet you didn’t do it for long enough. A never arriving promise, don’t fall for it @Ryozuki

gym rocks if you have company around you

??

18:41

my mood is at its highest atm

18:41

i cant wait to go to gym again tomorrow

Maybe it’s from the gym, maybe it’s from the food, maybe it’s from the dota. You can never know

idk

18:41

but as long as it works im happy

lea trolling

I’m just joking around. I’m sure it works just fine

but im not a gym bro btw

18:42

i see funny people iin the gym

18:42

with funny shirts

18:42

"muscles for life"

18:42

type of thing

18:42

i also seen people with rly big shoulders and no legs (edited)

18:42

and the other way around

18:42

the world truly is big

Indeed it is

like some ppl got cannons for legs

18:43

and nothing up

18:43

xd

that kinda sounds like skill issue (edited)

they just love their legs

like a fetish or smth? xd

i wonder

they are baller

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19:47

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justatest

4

Scrumplex

The owner of the GitHub org and Discord went crazy, kicked out all developers, because he "wanted to free polymc from leftoid queer ideology" or something like that

btw did he say exactly this, i heard that "leftoid queer ideolog"ists are spreading false information about him to make things even worse

Ryozuki

CoCs are cancerous (edited)

as always truth is 3 word wide

gerdoe

btw did he say exactly this, i heard that "leftoid queer ideolog"ists are spreading false information about him to make things even worse

The owner basically did not participate in development, so they don't know the codebase well or at all

Scrumplex

The owner basically did not participate in development, so they don't know the codebase well or at all

didn't he make like fundament of this project

They also don't know how to maintain the metadata service (i.e. push Minecraft and mod loader updates)

gerdoe

didn't he make like fundament of this project

No

22:06

The project was forked from another project

22:06

He mainly did Ctrl+F and replaced the name of the old launcher with PolyMC

22:07

Basically everything else from that point on was mostly handled by other people including me

btw any reason to have project with such owner of repo

gerdoe

btw any reason to have project with such owner of repo

Well we didn't know that this would happen

22:08

We also couldn't do much about it

22:08

Like there can only be one PolyMC

why?

22:08

old polymc vs maintained polymc

Yeah but it would just confuse users

now theyre confused a bit more justatest

justatest

We just forked PolyMC and renamed it to Prism

22:09

From my point of view PolyMC was effectively renamed to Prism, because everything that made up PolyMC left together with us (the maintainers) (edited)

22:10

The currently existing PolyMC is a barely functioning mess with developers who don't know how to handle the project

22:11

And I am not lying here. All of this crap happened on Monday evening and we at Prism Launcher have built up everything from scratch within 48h

lmfao

Like set up all the internet services, set up the website, finished WIP features

good job ngl

And PolyMC didn't do anything

prism is a bad name imho

i can't even express it huh

polymc name is better than multimc too

its great job

Yeah PolyMC was a great name

22:14

At least now we fit in with the other FOSS Minecraft launchers with the logo

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22:15

(Unwritten rule that every Minecraft launcher must be some kind of hexagon)

nfts

22:23

justatest

@Learath2 i found you

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22:42

BASED

sus

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