DDraceNetwork - mapping

02:10

what do you think about that noobfilter ?

looks like you'll hit freeze if you don't have perfect start

ye thats why i only left the 2 good hooking blocks

02:13

wait

02:13

i will make a demo

02:16

@Chairn

02:16

i think its fair

dunno, looks too "tight"

02:20

like this its very free

02:20

honestly

02:20

maybe its good for a noobfilter

ok so

02:50

what yall think of my first part ?

@Chairn

03:14

i posted at 4:20

03:15

u can give ur opinion :)

uh, hard fly

03:16

but aled into kill tile?

03:16

i gave a bit more space

Chairn

but aled into kill tile?

if u aled right, u dont fall in killtile

well, im too noob for normal aled already

i tough u were strong

03:19

maybe i should do the start a bit less difficult

03:20

so its not like Mult0map

its too tight fs

fs ?

for sure

ah

03:27

ok i will space it all

03:27

btw

03:27

we all agree that the little 1-block spots are doable ?

03:27

right ?

with dummy yes, with a real player, harder

03:29

so not sure you should advantage already advantaged dummy players

03:30

the idea is to have a hard and fast way, and a easier but long way

03:30

i think that will always advantage dummy players

Chairn

so not sure you should advantage already advantaged dummy players

but is that really a bad thing ?

ye

03:36

dummies in t0 are annoyinf

louis

dummies in t0 are annoyinf

then giving them another way to go wipe them out of the melee

03:52

wich is great

03:52

they will annoy themselves

04:18

ok now its way bigger

plantknight skip greenthing

(edited)

yep

04:21

thing is

04:21

im bad with dummy

04:21

so i guess i will finish the map to get testers

05:43

this works and i love it

11:51

2

11:51

smh

11:52

smh x2

11:53

11:54

smh x3

11:55

the dj edge reminder is very oddly mapped in entities, and it's not consistent at all

11:55

11:56

its is placed so that the reminder comes up if you miss jumping off the platform

and dj quickly instead

oh i know what it does

11:56

hence "dj edge reminder"

11:57

so for the first two, there is 3 tiles of space before cp is restored to the normal one

11:57

for the last one, there is 2 tiles, but you are supposed to get speed for this section?

11:58

wouldn't this be the opposite? xD

11:58

anyway, there is a much cleaner way to do this

they seem pretty identical, no? seem like nits

11:59

what is the pillar of normal cps right of the 'special' cp for again?

12:00

could add some more too like the above

12:00

the extra pillar is really unnecessary imo.

12:00

it would often cause people who dj mega late to never see the reminder at all

12:01

the way i see it at least

12:01

although im not sure anyone has a reaction time that bad

ah, the idea is probably that if you jump mega late, you will probably understand yourself that you are not jumping right

12:01

and its less probable that it is something the person will do again

12:02

and it might be annoying

in that case we can still put a pillar like the original design but it should at least be mapped cleaner

12:02

shouldnt need more than this

I think you make it sound much more dramatic than it is ^^

in fact the excess CP to the right is probably unnecessary too

12:03

pointless not to fix it, it's representative of the ddnet community and should be a clean map

12:05

normal maps that no player past 100 hours will ever see is ridiculed for having a single freeze corner missing but the tutorial that literally every player will see has more lax criteria xD

@lynn the tutorial works really well with new players, that's what it was designed for

im just suggesting improvements to it, they aren't necessary changes but i expect the tutorial map to be held to the same standards of any map that would be tested normally

no, you're not just "suggesting improvements"

12:19

[2:03 PM] lynn: pointless not to fix it, it's representative of the ddnet community and should be a clean map

what's wrong with that?

12:20

am i wrong?

it's not just suggesting improvements

i could send a patched version in like 2 minutes

how are those problems?

no one would double-take if someone pointed out these things in normal testing channels

12:22

suddenly because it's ddnet's prized tutorial "it's fine"

well, ddnet's tutorial was extensively tested on new players

12:24

changes would need to go through that as well

it depends who tests the map, I for one put my attention towards more important things than little inconsistencies in entities or design

inconsistencies in entities

12:24

ayep

12:24

but that's what people do in testing havent u seen xD

12:25

people flip out when a corner is missing

I have, and I think it's not the best way

i apologize for wanting the entities to be cleaner on the eventually-most played map

12:27

i will shut up forever about it

12:27

3 different discord role colors saying no i think i take the L here

12:28

again everything i ever bring up is met with swift rejection

@lynn I agree the cp in wall could be fixed, but see nothing wrong with the rest

even the most inoccuous thing such as this xD

12:28

im not even a mod anymore

12:28

give me a break

Ravie

@lynn I agree the cp in wall could be fixed, but see nothing wrong with the rest

you dont think the last set should match the others?

12:28

or have the other 2 be walls of cp as well?

12:29

either 2x2 the last one or make them all walls

I don't think it has to match if it works the same

not sure why they're 2-wide either

I would like this change, and I think the others too and didn't really read the things as rejections. would you mind sending a map with your proposed changes?

it doesnt need the change

12:29

it looks nicer

Patiga

I would like this change, and I think the others too and didn't really read the things as rejections. would you mind sending a map with your proposed changes?

I'd generally be wary of gameplay changes tbh, the tutorial really was tested a lot. the non-gameplay changes are fine (cps in walls)

changing how many cps there are doesnt change gameplay

12:30

it changes what the map looks like in entities

Patiga

I would like this change, and I think the others too and didn't really read the things as rejections. would you mind sending a map with your proposed changes?

nope because if ive learned anything in all my time trying to do anything for this game it's that you'll waste your time

12:31

i tried to patch multeasymap to be less blocker-friendly (edited)

12:31

i spent a ton of time working on different revisions

12:31

i thought people were happy with the idea

12:31

it was rejected

12:32

i was a mod then and im not a mod now, neither route works

well it does change how the fallback teleporter is triggered, I wouldn't really argue that but if we could see that it works as well or better (and probably also have the original mappers look over it) I'd personally be fine with improving the look of the map in entities

fallback teleporter is entirely dictated by the length of the bottom CP

12:32

not the wall

12:32

if it has even just 1 tile thick walls its doing the job

12:32

that CP is for running right not drifting back left

12:34

EVEN IF (and i am being extremely conservative here) you managed to bisect the behavior where a thicker wall would result in getting the cp still, there is no way with your falling speed that you're going to miss the CP on the bottom. not if you hook, cant dj, nothing

12:34

it literally does not change gameplay

12:34

idk why i even have to go down this rabbit hole xD

if you want to do that and the map creator agrees, it's fine

i see no decent way to facilitate changes to the map, since it didn't have a testing channel, correct? or at least it was not public

change the map, contact the creator and come back afterwards, I guess

i dont know their dm but if i dm them then it's a whole thing where no one knows if i said anything or they said anything back etc

12:36

been burned many times

12:37

would prefer they respond here

12:37

@unique_2 @Alisa are these the mappers?

yes

12:38

I don't know if they want to be contacted here, though

i will pick the one with a profile picture and dm them

12:41

dmed

for visibility, this is my version of the tutorial. it is free of entity bugs, connects left CP43 tiles with the hookable tiles near it, and makes the following change to the dj reminder:

12:58

Tutorial.map

1.03 MB

12:59

I know I said I wasn't gonna map it, but honestly this will be my last try to do anything ddnet-related xd

13:02

i didnt make this change since it's extremely picky but typically CTO tiles for freeze parts have 3 unfreeze tiles near them, but this one uses 4

13:02

again extremely extremely picky but could match the others

@lynn btw you realize tutorial players won't find out about entities for a while? justatest

missing the point here

13:05

i suppose all novice maps can have entity bugs in them now

clean entities are always nice, and if they already know of entities its even nicer

lynn

i suppose all novice maps can have entity bugs in them now

I wouldn't say those are entities bugs, just really nitpicky stuff that doesn't matter

i would get an example of an "entity bug" in testing but i self-banned myself from entering those things

13:07

an entity bug is when extra tiles are stacked on top of each other when they have no purpose in gameplay

13:07

saying "I wouldn't say those are entities bugs" is just false

13:08

or else the definition has swept up from under me

I meant the cp shape, I already said that the ones in walls can be fixed

how could i know what specific thing you were referring to? im not a mind reader

13:08

i changed a lot

13:09

i agree about the CP shape, doesnt matter but the rest of them connect

13:09

6am need to sleep or else my day will be gone

I'm fine with removing unneeded totele and making the airjump reminders consistent. Iirc there was a small graphics bug somewhere, might as well fix that, I'll see if I can still find it and upload the map here in a bit. As was said here, this will absolutely not affect the experience of new players, so we can argue if it's enough to warrant patching the map. Personally I'm undecided for the moment. I definitely don't want to make it a regular occurance that the tutorial map has to be redownloaded. (edited)

we could discuss other changes until we're confident it won't need to be changed again, maybe give it a day?

With the UI changes, we need another version anyways.

13:58

We delayed that because we didn't know how final those were, but eventually this will have to be changed.

14:01

Are the UI changes final now?

no, the freeze bar will look a little different in the next update and there might also be other small changes

Then we'll wait a bit more. Any other cosmetic issues we can also fix with that version.

thanks for your reply :D