DDraceNetwork - bugs

DDraceNetwork

Development / bugs

Report client & server bugs, especially but not limited to release candidates.

Between 2022-06-27 00:00:00Z and 2022-06-28 00:00:00Z

c0d3d3v

@cyberFighter @Ravie @Broso56 can you please retry with the new Release Candidate?

ok

09:03

works

after new beta update sometimes server messages do not show

12:18

for example solo unsolo message

ƤØŢĀŤ0Co

after new beta update sometimes server messages do not show

This is intended I think

12:44

https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/5416/commits/4ee11581678b7c17cbaa8fbe95d3ee0d5f495c7a

ew

you can see indicators on new hud

ƤØŢĀŤ0Co

after new beta update sometimes server messages do not show

"sometimes" xD that would be actually a bug. They should not be send anymore.

"on some servers" is probably more accurate. not all servers are running 16.2 version

murpi

https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/5416/commits/4ee11581678b7c17cbaa8fbe95d3ee0d5f495c7a

Wouldn't this be a step backwards for the newer player experience? They barely realize they have powerups to begin with.. I'm assuming it no longer tells people they have endless hook / jetpack etc.

20:13

And some maps are poorly designed to where you could get them without realizing it

thats a valid argument indeed

Skeith

And some maps are poorly designed to where you could get them without realizing it

you can vote on this https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/5510

Add player effect sound · Issue #5510 · ddnet/ddnet

On Discord someone requested to add a new sound for player effects. Since we do now nolonger send chat messages if a player effect changes there is no chat sound. (Effects like, solo, jetpack, ende...

How are they supposed to realize what these HUD icons are as well

its about icons are less inuitive

It shouldn't even really be a vote, I spend a lot of time with newer players and know they'd struggle with this

It is not a vote ... just a push

20:16

I mean... "raise your voice" ...

need better tutorial, that also explains hud stuff ^^

20:16

and ui

I see? I think it has to be more than a sound effect, the previous way it worked was definitely better, chat message telling you what you received (edited)

I did never like the chat messages

20:17

but popup/powerup animation would be interesting

Ya, we need a better tutorial that's actually forced on you if these changes were to stay

20:19

Should revert it asap imo until other systems are in place

bruh

20:19

players also did not notice powerups before...

20:19

they forget stuff

Yes, but why make it worse?

now they only have to look in top left corner

20:20

ez

They dont know the icon meanings

20:20

This decision had no thought at all

xD its the same icons that are used on maps

Noobs are ignorant to game mechanics, yes. That's how it usually goes

particle and sound should be good

20:21

id say its more noticable than a chat msg

They dont know the icon meanings

Maybe we could look at other games how they teach the players meanings of powerups

Sure, but revert asap until you can implement these things.

20:24

I strongly believe this change will make most new players extremely confused, and more likely to quit

If you would be right, sounds like they would less likely get addicted

Sounds good to me ^^ jk (edited)

Nice meme, but please take it seriously justatest

justatest

create a sound @Skeith and I add it

As I stated earlier, it needs to be a chat message for now

20:27

Nothing else explains these things, besides the wiki, and other players

@c0d3d3v u can use the vanilla dink sound for now and i will make one later

chat messages are server side... they can be turned on ever we want... so if we decide it was bad decision we can turn it back on... But I still believe it was good to turn it off.

@deen

20:27

It's not.

twinbop

freezebar is to divisive anyway xd

I've spent thousands of hours playing with new players and helping them, it definitely is not better this way

it has the potential to be better

It's only better for experienced players that get annoyed by chat messages

cant you make a more in depth tooltip or message in chat only for the first time someone picks one up

Some powerup-like particles when you get stuff like jp/endless sounds nice

Jupstar ✪

freezebar is to divisive anyway xd

Let it be the most divisive version for a long time

But it's not forever. In 4-8 weeks we will have certainly improvements. (edited)

I like the ideas of improving it, but removing information in general when it's already hard to figure shit out for newer players, is not the correct order.

20:37

Should be obvious

@deen should I revert to sending the powerup messages -.- and in the next version come up with something like https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/5510

louis

cant you make a more in depth tooltip or message in chat only for the first time someone picks one up

If this is possible along with other proposed changes, would probably be ideal.

20:44

But I still fear new players would miss it, and the issue of it most likely only being in English

20:46

The tutorial should've explained all powerups to new players, should probably make an improved one, or edit the current tutorial map and add a room to it. Who cares if it makes the map more annoying to speedrun.

dont think it needs to explain all of them since most starter maps don't use them

Well, it does have to, if we're planning on removing text-based information. Things aren't really intuitive in this game

not in the beginner tutorial

20:51

maybe a secondary advanced one

20:51

the tutorial is already long enough i fear

Most mmos have both. Design and text based fight console

Sure, but then it wouldn't be forced on players, unlike the current tutorial? I believe

Or rpgs

Right.

it could still be an option somewhere

But this game doesn't do a good job at either of those, and maps vary in quality. It's a very confusing game

20:54

We should definitely think more about how newer players will experience changes like this in the future

Jupstar ✪

Most mmos have both. Design and text based fight console

so you think sending the text is ok?

21:12

or making them client sided xD (edited)

I had the experience today, that i got into a teleporter and got like 4 powerups and didnt saw what i got. So i had to look on the hud and i just didnt know what i got exactly, the icons are too similar and i have to study them to tell them apart. At the end i figured one or two out and had to guess the other ones, wouldnt have happened with text i guess, so i agree on skeith opinion (edited)

Vy0x2

I had the experience today, that i got into a teleporter and got like 4 powerups and didnt saw what i got. So i had to look on the hud and i just didnt know what i got exactly, the icons are too similar and i have to study them to tell them apart. At the end i figured one or two out and had to guess the other ones, wouldnt have happened with text i guess, so i agree on skeith opinion (edited)

could you tell me what symbol it was?

Image attachment

Yea let me look up what map that was

The first two at the third and fourth row I think part of the problem is, that you dont know what powerup was added. You just see 6/7 icons and have to figure out what is new/what you got, you dont have this problem with text messages, but this may be get better with time

I guess it would be more obvious if new items blink for a moment or get shiny

21:33

the solo and no collision icons are very similar, yes

21:34

but have pretty much the same effects on a lot of parts xD

yea but also the endless icon, if you know it its obvious but if you see this for the first time or you have custom entities. My endless icon (in entities) is different (edited)

yes I guess turning the server messages back on, till we have a conclusion on this... is not to bad.

2

the messages are not that useful; they're not translated

21:49

a large part of the player base doesn't speak english

c0d3d3v

yes I guess turning the server messages back on, till we have a conclusion on this... is not to bad.

perhaps they should be generated locally

Skeith

I've spent thousands of hours playing with new players and helping them, it definitely is not better this way

most players don't understand english though, so what good are server text messages?

21:57

oh, heinrich said so too

They're still good for general gameplay, maps are very sloppy a lot of the time, you can get powerups without even realizing, and not everyone runs around with entities. The fact that you don't get a sound effect when acquiring powerups anymore is not good

22:00

And I'm sure most people know SOME English

they might just play dense, but I have had trouble communicating anything on some Asian servers

Ya, from experience I have to resort to using a translator for them sometimes

22:04

But using simplified english works a lot of the time

heinrich5991

perhaps they should be generated locally

I guess making them local would not be to hard, and also would make them easy translatable without us deploying a translation system for server messages

Sounds ideal, would be nice if the client was smart about not spamming it as well, I think it is to a degree, but I don't remember if it spams in the console still or not.

would probably spam the same way the server does it...

22:10

why should it not spam?

22:10

I thought you like them

Skeith

And I'm sure most people know SOME English

I meet a lot of ddnet players, that do not know any word in english. I used translators like deepl for comunication, in russia, chinese, korean...

Well, you don't really need to spam it, and I do like being alerted of the powerups. I'm just saying it could be smarter about it

what do you think would the "smart" way look like

Well, I'm no coder. But I'd prefer it to have a delay on resending it

but then you get not notified that you lost it

22:15

and got it back in seconds (edited)

Well, it's a quality of life thing, it would appeal to both sides. It makes more sense than just removing it because it's annoying

well, it's removed because it's a bad mechanic

How?

games don't usually communicate normal game state changes via text

Games don't usually require it I guess?

games design around it

22:17

find useful graphical representations for it

Maps aren't the same in this game, styles vary, clarity varies

22:17

You can't compare it to other games

why not?

It's not fair. Other games don't change

anyway, I also don't think text is a useful representation for game state

Each map is basically a new game, if you consider the graphics changing up. A lot of them have no indicator for certain tiles (edited)

maybe in some tutorial about how the icons work

visual indicator on the tee itself

22:21

justatest

I first thought it could be animated like this: 1. You get a powerup: Endless jumps -> a lot of (green) Plus + Particles spwan around you, indicating you got a good powerup or got a power upgrade -> particles fading away upwards, like smoke 2. you loose capability to hook other players -> a lot of (red) Minus - Particles spwan around you, indication you lost a powerup or got a power downgrade -> particles fading away upwards, like smoke But my 2. idea was to animate it like this: For every power up and power down there is a symbol (endless hook symbol form the hud + for power down the same symbol but corssed out? or maybe normal hook?) and if you get a power up that symbol pops up on you and fades away upwards... (edited)

This change feels like something to make if we accept that EVERYONE uses entities

I guess most players play with entities, at least the most old players

I don't

22:25

at least on bareable maps

I know not everyone uses entities, but a vast majority do

22:26

My point is, the text is somewhat required with how everything changes, it's doable if we can consistently see the tiles, and they're recognizable.

22:26

But they're not

22:26

And you don't

I think some maps would confuse me, even with entities to see the tiles. Some maps quickly give and remove your powerups after teleporting you.

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