DDraceNetwork - developer

DDraceNetwork

Development / developer

Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.tw/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories — IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet

Between 2022-06-22 00:00:00Z and 2022-06-23 00:00:00Z

does anyone here still use RSS feeds?

00:27

seems like in the last year Chrome for Android now has support (again) (edited)

00:27

i never used them but i kinda wanna make one for my stream for fun

ah

02:55

copilot has pricing now

Sadge

isn't Ninecloud on this server? i want to kindly yell at them for not using the standard library JSON implementation in Python

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #5385 Add libpng, remove pnglite 2

07:30

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #5473 error message when not compiled with vulkan

i didnt compile with vulkan on windows 11 msvc. qhen i selected vulkan ingame the game wouldnt start anymore. would be nice to have an error message or automatic switch to opengl.

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue closed: #3569 add "community skins" download option

f

yes, for const int^^

lol in C it is still the same

https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/refs/heads/main/docs/security/rust-toolchain.md

07:51

but it's not being shipped to users yet

ReiTW

lol in C it is still the same

m? what is still the same?

I mean, int or const int, it's still somewhere in the stack

08:04

so "a variable is an address in which you can find the value"

well its true what ryozuki said, compilers might optimize things by using direct constants

08:04

that are not in RAM

ReiTW

so "a variable is an address in which you can find the value"

ye unless its a const or a constified variable

08:04

i agreed with ryuzuki xd

@f a variable might be in a register or even never in memory at all

08:05

it's definitely not "always an address"

well i dont agree with that

08:05

you knew two things for a value contained somewhere

08:05

an address and the value inside that location

08:06

it is a dynamic memory such as ram or a static memory such a flip flop registry?

well, that's wrong

thats irrelevant

not all variables have main memory addresses, and not even all variables are stored somewhere

08:06

some are optimized out entirely

how to change the value of something

08:07

if its not contained anywhere?

08:07

where to store it after you change it?

the C compiler only has to produce code that works as-if it was executed

08:07

it doesn't actually have to perform the computation

08:08

(this isn't a theoretical concern, this is what actually happens)

even if you want to go deep down cpu architeture i dont agree with that

08:08

registries are memory locations that have addresses and you reference those in machine code

08:09

address is an information like another

08:09

variable = address + value (unless excpetions)

08:09

i see you like focussing on the expetions

08:09

but the general rule is this

okay, so you call registers a memory location as well

08:09

fine

08:09

and then call everything that doesn't work with your rule an exception

i mean im not talking about something i made up

Image attachment

okay, I can make any rule work with that

nah, the only expection i see

08:10

is an actual constant

08:10

written in machine code, inside the code

08:10

that has no memory location

08:11

but when you do var x = 4; now x must have a location somehwere

08:11

or it will be forgotten, like doing 5 + 5 without assignments

no, that's false

08:11

c++
int abc() {
    int i = 5;
    i += 10;
    if (i == 15) {
        return 0;
    } else {
        return 1;
    }
}

08:11

compile this with your favorite C compiler with optimizations

08:12

i will never have a memory location

there is a conceptual problem maybe thats why we are not understanding each others

08:13

i mean, cpu operates on local registry, if its not enough on local caches, if its not enough on main ram, if its not enough it swappes to hard drive

08:13

its the memory pyramid

I do know all that

so you say that something has an address only if it is in main memory??

08:13

why

I'm not arguing that right now

your code is so simple it can be run instantly on local registries

08:13

no need to use main memory

I'm saying in the above example, i is never in any kind of memory

so... that means your var i has no address?

it's not even in registers (edited)

f

your code is so simple it can be run instantly on local registries

His code is so simple it won't ever run

xD

It'll be completely optimized out

heinrich5991

I'm saying in the above example, i is never in any kind of memory

i is in a static memory based on flip flops

the variable i will never be in main memory and it will never be in a register

that is a cpu registry

no

oooh

i will never be in any register

https://godbolt.org/z/sehnMzo3r

Compiler Explorer - C++ (x86-64 clang 14.0.0)

// Type your code here, or load an example. int abc() { int i = 5; i += 10; if (i == 15) { return 0; } else { return 1; } }

so thats what im not getting

check this

i go

the assembly listing only has xor eax, eax

08:15

which is similar to return 0

08:15

so the assembly definitely doesn't contain anything about the variable i

xDDDD

08:15

i understand what you are saying

08:16

its because your code is so simple ye

this also happens in more complicated code

08:16

I chose a simple example to make it very clear

heinrich5991

the assembly listing only has xor eax, eax

don't forget the ret overwise it's not similar to return 0

the rule "all variables are manifested in memory or registers somewhen" is false

i understand compiler optimization things ye

but afaik xor eax, eax is better than mov eax, 0

in my view its because the compiler understood that's not a "real variable" sort to say

08:17

you just need it on the fly for local working then forget it

ReiTW

but afaik xor eax, eax is better than mov eax, 0

It's a performance thing about how the pipeline is organized iirc. I think I read something about it once but can't seem to dig it back up

but yeye i agree with you now thanks for clarification

@Learath2 for me if I remember

ReiTW

but afaik xor eax, eax is better than mov eax, 0

for one, its encoding is shorter

the instruction set is smaller

08:17

31 ed xor ebp,ebp

08:17

only 2 bytes

08:18

while mov eax, 0 would be of size 3

also, it's hardcoded into the CPU

not 3 sry

08:18

more

zeroing a register takes 0 cycles IIRC

but you see what I mean

because it's just a register renaming

@f btw saying registers have an address is a little out there. On most architectures you can't refer to them with a memory address for they wouldn't be even mapped into the memory

Learath2

@f btw saying registers have an address is a little out there. On most architectures you can't refer to them with a memory address for they wouldn't be even mapped into the memory

yes i meant the registry address

(registers are different from cache and main memory btw)

they are ye

08:20

referencing them its different ofc, they are organized differently

cache is supposed to be a invisible abstraction

08:20

whereas you have to use registers explicitly

I've seen some toy architectures messing around with address tags letting users address registers. But even then as far as C is concerned if you so much as suggest a compiler to store a variable in a register you are just not allowed to take the address of it, even if the compiler doesnt end up putting it in a register

Learath2

I've seen some toy architectures messing around with address tags letting users address registers. But even then as far as C is concerned if you so much as suggest a compiler to store a variable in a register you are just not allowed to take the address of it, even if the compiler doesnt end up putting it in a register

thats interesting

The standard rarely makes such a restriction, but in this case it's sort of justified since well there really are no real architectures that allow this

08:22

Anyway, too semantic of a discussion before breakfast. Need food

Learath2

Anyway, too semantic of a discussion before breakfast. Need food

hahah true

08:24

thats because you like to go in deep details to find exceptions to a general picture that, even if its a semplification, cannot be stated as fundamentally wrong

08:24

Image attachment

08:24

i mean this is how you represent variables, its like a pointer to an address that contains the value

08:24

it is always true? nope

08:25

but this picture is useful and its not wrong under an accpetable generalization

08:25

its like to say newton laws are wrong because it doesn't concieve relativity xd

I can't prove newton's laws wrong in my backyard

08:26

(maybe I can, but I don't know how)

08:26

I know how to prove this wrong

then prove me that also this is wrong xD

Image attachment

that has nothing to do with newton's mechanics? ^^

you said you could prove that

08:27

so i took something harder maybe? xd

I said I can't prove newton's laws wrong

ooh sorry misread

Depends on your goal I guess. Is programming a means to an end goal or your goal. If you are interested in learning a language well, it's imho in your best interest to keep your terminology and concepts as accurate as possible without going overly deep

Learath2

Depends on your goal I guess. Is programming a means to an end goal or your goal. If you are interested in learning a language well, it's imho in your best interest to keep your terminology and concepts as accurate as possible without going overly deep

its true it depends on the level of abstraction you are positioning

08:28

and thats important

you can talk about variables in the abstract machine I guess

because i could comment: dont talk about structured loops, they dont exist, only gotos

08:29

well they exist in a certain level of abstraction xd

but you sounded like you were talking about stuff that happens on the silicon

heinrich5991

but you sounded like you were talking about stuff that happens on the silicon

peole answered me talking about compiling optimizations

08:30

i followed that line of discussion cause im curious too about how the compile could change the abstraction in which the programmer is working on

08:30

and i learned something today thanks to you

08:30

but i still think thats correct

Image attachment

08:30

on a certain level of abastraction

08:30

its not conceptual wrong

what would go wrong if you replaced the last person pointing to 69 with 69 itself?

well i'd say if the compiler technically doesn't optimize anything it'd work, even for the example of @heinrich5991

Chillerdragon: are u there?

heinrich5991

you can talk about variables in the abstract machine I guess

This is what I'd think would be useful

heinrich5991

what would go wrong if you replaced the last person pointing to 69 with 69 itself?

not complete in my view, cause the int has an l-value and r-value (unless expetions)

08:32

the last picture say that int is the address that contains the actual number 69

No fair, you accuse us of being pedantic but you bring up l and r values

heinrich5991

what would go wrong if you replaced the last person pointing to 69 with 69 itself?

actually if you do the same than the int -> 69 to the others you have to add like 2 values each being the address of

Learath2

No fair, you accuse us of being pedantic but you bring up l and r values

i use jargon cause i know we understand eachothers XD i just meant address + value

might it be that you identify int with the location of the int instead of where its value is stored?

heinrich5991

might it be that you identify int with the location of the int instead of where its value is stored?

yes

so you always add one level of indirection over my model?

cause if i do a = &b;

08:34

im assigning the address not the value

08:34

i like to keep that information in the meme

yes, but I'm doing a = &b and not a = b

yes exactly

I'd associate int with the location where 69 is stored

the first you assign l-value, the second r-value

when doing &, I'd look where this location is

yes cause b its two things not just one

08:35

the address and the value

08:35

you can decide what to consider in expressions thanks to &

but ints can exist without being able to get their address taken

Assigning an l-value doesnt really make much sense. You can assign TO an l-value

Learath2

Assigning an l-value doesnt really make much sense. You can assign TO an l-value

you do that for pointers xd

(& refers to memory address exclusively, in all architectures that I know of)

heinrich5991

(& refers to memory address exclusively, in all architectures that I know of)

if you are gonna talk about how the compiler will change your logic

08:36

i agree with you 100% now

You're invited to talk on Matrix

You're invited to talk on Matrix

you got me understand that better than i did before

you can type register int x in C

08:36

you cannot take an address of this variable

08:37

even though the compiler might put this into main memory

08:37

it's still an l-value

interesting, i have to admit i never use register and im n ot an expert but

08:37

as i knew it is just a restriction to enforce safety somehow

You take the address of something it immediately becomes an r-value if we are talking C

like visiblity modificators in classes

You are using an abstract machine concept but trying to apply it to silicon, which is what is causing your problems imo

heinrich5991

you can type register int x in C

thus it has its l-value but the compiler will stop building if it detects you are using it

08:38

why you say that

I can still assign to it

i use the words l-value and r-value just for rapidity

that's most of what being an l-value is about

i intend address and value

for me, an l-value is something you can assign to

"Has an l-value" isn't really a thing. An expression can be an lvalue expression or an rvalue expression. There is no silicon equivalent of "expression"

and an r-value is a value you cannot assign to

heinrich5991

and an r-value is a value you cannot assign to

agree

Learath2

"Has an l-value" isn't really a thing. An expression can be an lvalue expression or an rvalue expression. There is no silicon equivalent of "expression"

dude i dont really understand you xD

08:40

there is no operations there are just electrical impulses that changes voltages

08:40

so? xd

08:40

i positioned myself on the abstraction layer that C creates for you

08:40

and i consider that as truth

08:41

as i consider linear time as a truth even if its not like that

f

dude i dont really understand you xD

Lvalue is a misnomer for address. Rvalue is a misnomer for value. They do not correspond

if you dont like the term address i can use "place in memory"

08:42

i dont see the mistake honestly

This is why I said terminology is very important if you want to learn a language or programming in general at this level. If you care about very pedantic things you'll need to learn very accurate terms for things

or at least that might explain why @Learath2 and I had strong opinions on it ^^

08:43

if we have different definitions, then it explains the misunderstanding

before trying to teach me how to learn something

08:43

let me understand why l-value and r-value i used wrongly

08:43

An lvalue (locator value) represents an object that occupies some identifiable location in memory (i.e. has an address). rvalues are defined by exclusion.

Aand there he goes on the defensive. I'm out. Food awaits

that's wikipedia, tell me what im missing

08:43

wtf dude im not going defensive

Learath2

Aand there he goes on the defensive. I'm out. Food awaits

hum?

maybe you went aggressive? xd

both sides: try to not psychologically analyze the other person

heinrich5991

hum?

[10:43 AM] f.: before trying to teach me how to learn something

I don't think this is conducive to a discussion and I don't have the energy for a hostile one, if you want to go on feel free. I don't feel like it today

i just meant to say that it would be more useful to me if you just tell me specifically what is wrong about what i said about l-values and r-values

08:45

that just saying i should learn how to use the technical terms better

I think l-value means "something that can be assigned to"

08:45

and r-value is the rest

heinrich5991

I think l-value means "something that can be assigned to"

i.e. an address as it says

08:46

someone calls l-value locator value

08:46

if there is something im missing id like to know more ^^

the l in l-value most certainly comes from "left"

yeye i know xd

An lvalue is an expression with object type. If you want a more layman form of it something that can be assigned to also works fine since that was actually how it was initially defined. If something can appear on the left side of an assignment it's an l-value

L-value: “l-value” refers to memory location which identifies an object. l-value may appear as either left hand or right hand side of an assignment operator(=).

08:48

whats wrong with this statement

int array[10];, array is an lvalue as it's an expression with object type, however it's not a modifiable l-value, so it can't appear on the LHS of an assignment

for now there is no "silicon" stuff involved

08:50

so i still dont understand

08:50

its something conceptual

08:50

l-value is the location, r-value is the value

08:50

i still dont understand whats wrong with this statement

An lvalue is a type of expression. It's not the address. It refers to an object, it doesn't say anything about whether it's in memory or in a register or whatever physical location it might be

i dont agree that its a type of expression

08:51

it can be used in an expression

08:51

its an operand

The standard is fairly clear on what an lvalue is

Image attachment

operands xD

*(int *)123 is an l-value

yes!

that is an expression

...

08:53

&a; is an expression

08:53

5; is an expression

08:53

what are we talking about here?

without the semicolon, yes

08:53

5; is a statement

08:53

5 is an expression

08:53

5 is an r-value

ok i see we are playing with words here

&a is an r-value

ok an expression without operators and just operands are still expressions

08:53

i can agree, so l-value even without operands is an expression

heinrich5991

&a is an r-value

This one is the one I think is causing confusion here

still doesnt make me understand what is wrong about my l-value r-value interpretations

*((int *)x + 5) is still an l-value

08:54

even though it contains "operands"

yes

heinrich5991

&a is an r-value

explain me this pls

08:55

maybe this is the thing

&a is an address, but it's an r-value. if you define l-value as address, then you get misled

why &a is r-value?

because I cannot assign to it

ooooooooooooooh w8 maybe im getting it

I cannot say &a = &b

By heinrich's easy definition, it can't appear on the left side, so it's not an l-value

okok maybe im understang better

08:56

it just depends on the position because ofc everything is just a number

08:56

so you say &a even if its the address it can be considered r-value inside an expression

&a is always an r-value, in every context

no w8 i still have a doubt

When you write &a you mean address of a which is just a normal value

&a is the r-value

08:58

but a is the l-value?

08:58

The unary & (address-of) operator requires an l-value as its operand. That is, &n is a valid expression only if n is an l-value. Thus, an expression such as &12 is an error. Again, 12 does not refer to an object, so it’s not addressable. For instance,

a is an lvalue, &a is an rvalue. Yep

okok ... but this brings me at the start xD

08:59

a has l-value and r-value

made a shit error just for u

08:59

test.cpp:11:11: error: cannot bind non-const lvalue reference of type ‘int*&’ to an rvalue of type ‘int*’
   11 |  PrintInt(&a);

ye xD

09:00

&a = p; // error: &a is an r-value

yes that would have been easier to do

@Learath2 ok maybe i understand

f

a has l-value and r-value

int a = 0;. a is an object. a is also an l-value. a has a value it's 0

&a : a is the l-value of this subexpression (edited)

09:03

and &a is the l-value of the entire expression

&a is the address, &a is an r-value

but a is an l-value

yes

09:04

the expression a is an l-value

yes yes i think i get it

09:05

its a composed expression so you have to treat l-values and r-values differently in every sub-expression

As you apply operators and functions, you can go from an l-value to an r-value. a is an l-value, we apply the & operator, we get &a an r-value, we apply the * operator, we get *a an l-value

f

yes yes i think i get it

Isn't that you by any chance?)

Image attachment

or we apply the sizeof operator, sizeof a and we get a r-value

yes i think im starting to get that this terminology is very related to expressions

09:07

its not a general thing about variables

Yes, that's all I ever wanted to say

Matodor

Isn't that you by any chance?)

doubt

so i should say that l-values are typically addresses and r-values are typically just values inside an expression

09:08

@Learath2 is this more correct?

Matodor

Isn't that you by any chance?)

nope xd but i probably stole the icon from him

09:08

i remembered changing the color

f

so i should say that l-values are typically addresses and r-values are typically just values inside an expression

l-values refer to objects, r-values don't. That's how I'd think about it

you should always add "inside expressions"

09:09

right?

Because when you say l-values are addresses, you get the issue of &a which is an r-value but is the address of a

yes thats what enlightned me

09:09

heinrich gets to the point quickly xd

f

you should always add "inside expressions"

Well normally it's implied. When you talk about something being an lvalue or an rvalue, you are always talking about an expression

yeye was just to be sure

09:10

i think im getting this better now

09:10

@Learath2 but do you agree with me that this is not silicon related stuff?

09:10

its an higher level concept as i see it

Well obviously, this is a concept of the abstract machine. That's why I was not sure why you were talking about silicon and lvalues

okok now i think thats clear

09:11

thank you^^

About the original meme, I'm not sure if you don't take anya pointing as meaning this is a pointer, then there is some truth to it

i still think the meme is right xD

09:12

at a certain level of abstraction

09:12

we were talking about the misuse of l-value and r-value terminology now

But I think anya should probably just not be pointing in the last frame and instead have a 69 on her forehead

i agree i should use address and values not a synonyms of that

Learath2

But I think anya should probably just not be pointing in the last frame and instead have a 69 on her forehead

yes thats probably a better representation

09:13

maybe she could "puke" the number xd

Or that

i dont like the second one pointing to "int"

09:13

thats not right for me

09:13

where is the value?

09:14

but ye, she should "contain" it, not poiting at it

09:14

what i didnt like most that int had no anya on it

09:14

why? its a variable like int*

[ddnet-web:master] 1 new commit

544784a Frontpage video - def-

int anya1 = 69; int *anya2 = &anya1; int **anya3 = &anya2 This is sort of the mental picture I'd have about the meme

anya?

Learath2

int anya1 = 69; int *anya2 = &anya1; int **anya3 = &anya2 This is sort of the mental picture I'd have about the meme

exactly

heinrich5991

anya?

a sad turd, thanks discord

09:17

Image attachment

@murpi for you

09:18

[ddnet-web:master] 1 new commit

2258939 Update translation stats - def-

09:20

[ddnet:16.2-rc3] 9 new commits

cf7570c Version 16.2 - def- f12f971 Update Korean translations by CHaBek - cwh7435 ec684f2 Added new translations + fixed current one - crqch 42f4d93 Fix Leak IP not visible - crqch 4bef015 Remove accidentally added double type - Robyt3 9933b3c Update comment - Robyt3 342b5b5 Fix editor value scrollers not working and panning being slow - Robyt3 48c4cfd Improve some german translations - Jupeyy be4ae02 Update Brazilian Portuguese translation (supersedes #5304) - def-

Damn i missed s interesting convo

10:01

I love how that meme sparked this tho

10:01

TOOBASED

Ryozuki

Damn i missed s interesting convo

You wouldn't like it, it was about C, very pedantic C at that

Yeah

10:15

Im still interested thi

10:15

Tho

10:16

All the l,r,pr values i alwsys gotta check up their definitions again and again

10:16

Its not something i actively think of when coding in c++ honestly xD

10:17

Learath2

Click to see attachment 🖼️

The face i make when i see another memory unsafety or race due to c++ usage

10:21

TOOBASED

@Ryozuki afaik C only has rvalues and lvalues

10:23

it's C++ that goes overboard

Ryozuki

Its not something i actively think of when coding in c++ honestly xD

Me neither, except when thinking about rvalue references and perfect forwarding. These concepts are more used when talking about C/C++ rather than coding

perfect forwarding?

std::forward

10:25

For when you do template magic

hmm, I guess I'm going to learn some C++ today

10:26

do you happen to know whether the thing std::forward does is automatic in rust?

https://eli.thegreenplace.net/2014/perfect-forwarding-and-universal-references-in-c this was one of the readings that made it click for me

heinrich5991

do you happen to know whether the thing std::forward does is automatic in rust?

I dont know rust remotely well enough to know if that applies

10:28

I think you get sane code in rust in similar situations without the need of something like std::forward

okay

10:31

okay, I think it's automatic in rust due to the way how moves are the default

10:31

c++
template <typename T1, typename T2>
void wrapper(T1 e1, T2 e2) {
    func(e1, e2);
}

10:31

this is the example that the article is saying 'obviously' doesn't work, but I think it's the correct way to write it in rust

I think so too but I can't say it with any certainty

murpi: bra

You're invited to talk on Matrix

You're invited to talk on Matrix

The result is the reference collapsing rule. The rule is very simple. & always wins. So & & is &, and so are && & and & &&. The only case where && emerges from collapsing is && &&. You can think of it as a logical-OR, with & being 1 and && being 0.

10:34

oh, TIL these reference collapsing rules

10:34

quite simple, even

thats for rust right?

no

ah

thanks, that article was quite clear

10:37

@Learath2 do you also have an article about move references?

rust auto derefs multple & to a single & iirc

if you use it in a place where & is acceptable but not &&&&…

yeah

I don't have a good model of move references

heinrich5991

@Learath2 do you also have an article about move references?

Move references as in rvalue references?

I mean && references, not & references

10:39

probably rvalue

10:39

do they behave as the actual value type inside the function?

Hm, I do remember I read a really nice blog on them but I can't seem to remember who wrote it

and only parameter passing is different?

https://www.cambus.net/clang-static-analyzer-and-the-z3-constraint-solver/

Clang Static Analyzer and the Z3 constraint solver

Notes on using the Z3 constraint solver with the Clang Static Analyzer

10:41

helps filter false positives

Z3 is fun, I'm impressed if they only get a 15x slowdown for larger programs. I co-wrote a paper a while ago using constraint solvers to find regressions: http://felsin9.de/nnis/pubs/ase2014.pdf

poggers

1

Couldn't find the blog post :/

10:52

@heinrich5991 rvalue references are lvalue expressions inside functions confusingly enough

so they behave like a bare parameter?

10:52

inside the function

(Or anywhere else, but you mostly use them in functions)

they also don't reference memory outside the function, do they?

heinrich5991

so they behave like a bare parameter?

Bare? Idk what that'd imply but yes they do act like any other parameter

well, a & reference parameter changes the variable that was passed if I change it inside the function

deen

Z3 is fun, I'm impressed if they only get a 15x slowdown for larger programs. I co-wrote a paper a while ago using constraint solvers to find regressions: http://felsin9.de/nnis/pubs/ase2014.pdf

Newer C version that runs online: https://formal.kastel.kit.edu/projects/improve/reve/

AIUI, the && reference behaves the same as no reference at all inside the function; the difference is that you cannot pass lvalues to it directly

ChillerDragon: I got dmed by someone with ur name on Discord, that wasn't you, right? (edited)

heinrich5991

AIUI, the && reference behaves the same as no reference at all inside the function; the difference is that you cannot pass lvalues to it directly

I don't think that's quite correct, an rvalue reference can reference outside the function afaik

@Learath2 so it's more like a reference, but you're allowed to move out of it?

12:14

hm no, I think I have to think about it some more

Can someone tell me if the line (void)pMsg; can be omitted or does it do anything? (edited)

Image attachment

12:32

I'm only wondering what it does or if it was there because of the old C age.

i think it does nothing

12:33

Casting to void is used to suppress compiler warnings. The Standard says in §5.2.9/4 says, Any expression can be explicitly converted to type “cv void.” The expression value is discarded.

12:33

maybe if pmsg was unused at some point in history this was added

Ah makes sense

12:34

Like this:

Image attachment

ye

thank you

https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-outage-on-june-21-2022/ @Ryozuki

Cloudflare outage on June 21, 2022

Today, June 21, 2022, Cloudflare suffered an outage that affected traffic in 19 of our data centers

good read

14:15

it also led me to read something else about their Quicksilver DB

Ye i read it yesterfay

Cloudflare is always on point with their blogposts

they posted it just some hours after it happened (edited)

14:16

they are also fast af

fast to serve, fast to fail, fast to tell the world about how they failed

14:17

honorable

i wonder

14:18

they are the reason half internet dies when they go down

14:18

centralization bad

agree

its like facebook

14:18

their engineers

but matrix sucks

tee_thinking

1

are top top notch

14:18

have u seen their blog posts?

14:18

but the corporation sucks

i haven't no

lynn

but matrix sucks

the protocol is super convoluted and not a great base for open communication

14:19

my friend probably has more details about it

14:20

it's a functional implementation of decentralized chatting but apparently not ideal

https://engineering.fb.com/2022/06/20/data-infrastructure/transparent-memory-offloading-more-memory-at-a-fraction-of-the-cost-and-power/

Transparent memory offloading: more memory at a fraction of the cos...

-Transparent memory offloading (TMO) is Meta’s data center solution for offering more memory at a fraction of the cost and power of existing technologies -In production since 2021, TMO saves 20 percent to 32 percent of memory per server across millions of servers in our data center fleet We are witnessing massive growth in the [...]Read More...

Ryozuki

centralization bad

centralization necessary to prevent ddos

14:20

rip

=[

i wonder

wait

Ryozuki

they are the reason half internet dies when they go down

Vali: Write that down, write that down

why does the tsin smile look wrong as a frown

14:21

but good as a smile

14:21

is this just psychology

vali should ddos cloudflare, they are a big company maybe they can get him into a jail cell

LMAO

vali would feel like someone poking to them

He can't because he does not have any power that could take down even 0.001% of their services

nice nick u got btw

troll

1

same message different words

he also lacks cuz of knowledge

@lynn could you give me some links to read up on criticism on the matrix protocol?

ill try to find some

Ryozuki

vali would feel like someone poking to them

we should donate, so he can afford bigger ddos

lmao (edited)

day 14 of remembering Learath is not 30

14:30

let's keep the streak going

i think learath is 24

14:31

im 22 btw

correct

14:31

@Patiga how old are you?

what we gonna do to this fat guys

Image attachment

wrong channel bro

#reports

14:32

also did you know that Patiga has a nice voice

14:32

uwu

I do not know if we changed something for building related to ASAN, but when I build using

CC=clang CXX=clang++ CXXFLAGS="-fsanitize=address,undefined -fsanitize-recover=address,undefined -fno-omit-frame-pointer" CFLAGS="-fsanitize=address,undefined -fsanitize-recover=address,undefined -fno-omit-frame-pointer" cmake -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Debug ..

make -j$(nproc) I get a lot of the following warnings: /usr/bin/ld.gold: warning: Cannot export local symbol '__asan_extra_spill_area'

@lynn I keep that information kinda private, sorry

LAME

:p

that's fair

asking someone ages

14:33

rude smh

you still have a nice voice sorry

14:33

doxxed i guess

happy

1

thanks ^^

i used to care alot about that, when i was 15 that is

c0d3d3v

I do not know if we changed something for building related to ASAN, but when I build using

CC=clang CXX=clang++ CXXFLAGS="-fsanitize=address,undefined -fsanitize-recover=address,undefined -fno-omit-frame-pointer" CFLAGS="-fsanitize=address,undefined -fsanitize-recover=address,undefined -fno-omit-frame-pointer" cmake -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Debug ..

make -j$(nproc) I get a lot of the following warnings: /usr/bin/ld.gold: warning: Cannot export local symbol '__asan_extra_spill_area'

At least I think I did not have these warnings before

14:39

Has someone in the last time also compiled with ASAN?

c0d3d3v

I do not know if we changed something for building related to ASAN, but when I build using

CC=clang CXX=clang++ CXXFLAGS="-fsanitize=address,undefined -fsanitize-recover=address,undefined -fno-omit-frame-pointer" CFLAGS="-fsanitize=address,undefined -fsanitize-recover=address,undefined -fno-omit-frame-pointer" cmake -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Debug ..

make -j$(nproc) I get a lot of the following warnings: /usr/bin/ld.gold: warning: Cannot export local symbol '__asan_extra_spill_area'

same

=================================================================
==14741==ERROR: LeakSanitizer: detected memory leaks

Direct leak of 216320 byte(s) in 3 object(s) allocated from:
    #0 0x4e11df  (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x4e11df)
    #1 0x56b9d5  (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x56b9d5)
    #2 0x54ab3a  (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x54ab3a)
    #3 0x9b63fb  (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x9b63fb)
    #4 0x9b2308  (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x9b2308)
    #5 0x1d9cb53  (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x1d9cb53)
    #6 0x7fa3b5532ead  (/usr/lib/libpthread.so.0+0x8ead)

Direct leak of 6240 byte(s) in 3 object(s) allocated from:
    #0 0x4e1387  (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x4e1387)
    #1 0x7fa3aaad1251  (/usr/lib64/dri/radeonsi_dri.so+0xbb5251)

Direct leak of 104 byte(s) in 1 object(s) allocated from:
    #0 0x4e1548  (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x4e1548)
    #1 0x7fa3b7af7a11  (/usr/lib/libSDL2-2.0.so.0+0x9da11)

SUMMARY: AddressSanitizer: 222664 byte(s) leaked in 7 allocation(s).

Hmm, i get this message when i close the game

15:14

uh

nori

=================================================================
==14741==ERROR: LeakSanitizer: detected memory leaks

Direct leak of 216320 byte(s) in 3 object(s) allocated from:
    #0 0x4e11df  (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x4e11df)
    #1 0x56b9d5  (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x56b9d5)
    #2 0x54ab3a  (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x54ab3a)
    #3 0x9b63fb  (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x9b63fb)
    #4 0x9b2308  (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x9b2308)
    #5 0x1d9cb53  (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x1d9cb53)
    #6 0x7fa3b5532ead  (/usr/lib/libpthread.so.0+0x8ead)

Direct leak of 6240 byte(s) in 3 object(s) allocated from:
    #0 0x4e1387  (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x4e1387)
    #1 0x7fa3aaad1251  (/usr/lib64/dri/radeonsi_dri.so+0xbb5251)

Direct leak of 104 byte(s) in 1 object(s) allocated from:
    #0 0x4e1548  (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x4e1548)
    #1 0x7fa3b7af7a11  (/usr/lib/libSDL2-2.0.so.0+0x9da11)

SUMMARY: AddressSanitizer: 222664 byte(s) leaked in 7 allocation(s).

Hmm, i get this message when i close the game

looks normal... we did not fix these for a while

LMAO

tho the debug symbols are missing... but I guess these are the normal leaks

ddnet bot just SHIT itself hard

c0d3d3v

tho the debug symbols are missing... but I guess these are the normal leaks

why is it missing? i add -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Debug

did you build in a clean diretory

yes

15:17

also -- Build type: Debug

I do not even get these leaks currently, but for me the log normaly contains code lines, and function names

15:23

like this

3.92 KB

15:26

memory is so hard to make right in C++ xD

thats why rust exists (edited)

1

15:27

BASED

bruh

true. I only wished Rust is more easily readable ^^

@c0d3d3v try with ld instead of gold

Image attachment

15:29

I hate that code in mobile looks white on dark mode

justatest

1

15:30

Unreadable

deen

@c0d3d3v try with ld instead of gold

is there an option to use ld?

-DFUSE_LD=ld

btw. I'm nearly finished with the requests heinrich had for https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/5210 ... (I hope) I only have to fix this heap-buffer-overflow xD Then we can finaly move DDNetCharacterDisplayInfo in DDNetCharacter

15:36

Took me way longer then I expected. My first idea hadn't worked out, and I needed to find out a lot more about our snap system.... But the solution I have now should be quite acceptable, if it works

But at least I have now a very good understanding of our snap-system (edited)

deen

-DFUSE_LD=ld

worked

does it fix the asan issues too or just compiler warnings?

15:40

I'm wondering if we should use ld again

15:40

all this LTO and ld stuff caused more problems than it solved

deen

does it fix the asan issues too or just compiler warnings?

for me asan also worked with the warning (at least it detected the heap-buffer-overflow and an other mem_copy error from me). But with ld there are no warnings.

15:42

and the output is the same

as before

15:43

only @nori had no debug symbols in the asan output, but I guess that is an other problem

:\

15:47

btw https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/blob/f8810aeef88fa907c4d035c198d3c50055acbaaf/ubsan.supp#L1, we don't use pnglite anymore right?

ddnet/ubsan.supp at f8810aeef88fa907c4d035c198d3c50055acbaaf · ddne...

DDraceNetwork, a cooperative racing mod of Teeworlds - ddnet/ubsan.supp at f8810aeef88fa907c4d035c198d3c50055acbaaf · ddnet/ddnet

CCharacter *pLocalChar = m_pClient->m_GameWorld.GetCharacterByID(m_pClient->m_Snap.m_LocalClientID); return null when use spec. but i need to get a variable for the local player, is it possible to do this during spec? (edited)

15:53

for this

Image attachment

c0d3d3v

only @nori had no debug symbols in the asan output, but I guess that is an other problem

@nori install llvm-symbolizer

15:56

if it's in $PATH, then the symbols should be automagically resolved

nori

btw https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/blob/f8810aeef88fa907c4d035c198d3c50055acbaaf/ubsan.supp#L1, we don't use pnglite anymore right?

yes, you can make a PR to remove this

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #5474 pnglite -> libpng in readme

Checklist

[ ] Tested the change ingame
[ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
[ ] Tested in combination with possibly related configuration options
[ ] Written a unit test if it works standalone, system.c especially
[ ] Considered possible null pointers and out of bounds array indexing
[ ] Changed no physics that affect existing maps
[ ] Tested the change with [ASan+UBSan or valgrind's memcheck](https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/#using-addresssanitizer--u...

deen

@nori install llvm-symbolizer

worked :) (edited)

16:00

=================================================================
==4866==ERROR: LeakSanitizer: detected memory leaks

Direct leak of 216320 byte(s) in 3 object(s) allocated from:
    #0 0x4e11df in malloc (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x4e11df)
    #1 0x56b9d5 in CCommandProcessorFragment_OpenGL2::Cmd_CreateBufferObject(CCommandBuffer::SCommand_CreateBufferObject const*) /home/arda/ddnet/src/engine/client/backend/opengl/backend_opengl.cpp:1901:25
    #2 0x54ab3a in CCommandProcessorFragment_OpenGL::RunCommand(CCommandBuffer::SCommand const*) /home/arda/ddnet/src/engine/client/backend/opengl/backend_opengl.cpp:1107:49
    #3 0x9b63fb in CCommandProcessor_SDL_GL::RunBuffer(CCommandBuffer*) /home/arda/ddnet/src/engine/client/backend_sdl.cpp:248:20
    #4 0x9b2308 in CGraphicsBackend_Threaded::ThreadFunc(void*) /home/arda/ddnet/src/engine/client/backend_sdl.cpp:77:25
    #5 0x1d9cb53 in thread_run(void*) /home/arda/ddnet/src/base/system.cpp:721:2
    #6 0x7ffaf5e76ead in start_thread /builddir/glibc-2.32/nptl/pthread_create.c:463:8

Direct leak of 6240 byte(s) in 3 object(s) allocated from:
    #0 0x4e1387 in calloc (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x4e1387)
    #1 0x7ffaeb3f8251  (/usr/lib64/dri/radeonsi_dri.so+0xbb5251)

Direct leak of 104 byte(s) in 1 object(s) allocated from:
    #0 0x4e1548 in realloc (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x4e1548)
    #1 0x7ffaf843ba11  (/usr/lib/libSDL2-2.0.so.0+0x9da11)

SUMMARY: AddressSanitizer: 222664 byte(s) leaked in 7 allocation(s).

16:00

this bot :d

I don't know who made this bot, but I think we don't need linking github issues with # . @Learath2 can you remove that from the bot?

16:02

It's the DDNet#9607 bot

[ddnet/ddnet-libs] New branch created: pr-drmingw-revert

16:05

[ddnet/ddnet-libs] Pull request opened: #29 Revert "Build our own drmingw with mingw"

This reverts commit 9138d1edd90f47c8c62bcab766fa072a72e895f2. Pastoer reported on Discord that this causes warnings when closing client: !Screenshot 2022-06-22 at 18 04 01

16:06

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #5475 Revert "Build our own drmingw with mingw"

Pastoer reported on Discord that this causes warnings when closing client: !Screenshot 2022-06-22 at 18 04 01

Checklist

[ ] Tested the change ingame
[ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
[ ] Tested in combination with possibly related configuration options
[ ] Written a unit test if it works standalone, system.c especially
[ ] Considered possible null poi...

#6

deen

I don't know who made this bot, but I think we don't need linking github issues with # . @Learath2 can you remove that from the bot?

I made it ;(

don't delete it

it's learn material for me

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #5476 Remove pnglite shift ubsan

Checklist

[ ] Tested the change ingame
[ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
[ ] Tested in combination with possibly related configuration options
[ ] Written a unit test if it works standalone, system.c especially
[ ] Considered possible null pointers and out of bounds array indexing
[ ] Changed no physics that affect existing maps
[ ] Tested the change with [ASan+UBSan or valgrind's memcheck](https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/#using-addresssanitizer--u...

Then maybe don't detect # numbers inside of monospace blocks?

σℓí♡

for this

this is only the predicted character. There is no prediction done when you spectate... so you have to use the real data.

16:37

You could use CCharacterCore *pCharacter = &m_pClient->m_aClients[ClientID].m_Predicted if you really nead a CCharacterCore and want the predicted data if available. Thats what I have done in the new hud. But if you do not need predicted data you should use the snap data in m_pClient->m_Snap, that contains most of data the client got from the server. (edited)

16:39

@σℓí♡ ^

[ddnet-libs:pr-discord-3.2.1] 1 new commit

2abbfed Upgrade Discord SDK to version 3.2.1 (includes macOS arm64) - def-

16:41

[ddnet/ddnet-libs] New branch created: pr-discord-3.2.1

16:41

[ddnet-libs:pr-discord-3.2.1] 1 new commit

8b64081 Upgrade Discord SDK to version 3.2.1 (includes macOS arm64) - def-

16:42

[ddnet/ddnet-libs] Pull request opened: #30 Upgrade Discord SDK to version 3.2.1 (includes macOS arm64)

16:43

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #5477 Upgrade Discord SDK to version 3.2.1 (incldues macOS arm64)

Checklist

[ ] Tested the change ingame
[ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
[ ] Tested in combination with possibly related configuration options
[ ] Written a unit test if it works standalone, system.c especially
[ ] Considered possible null pointers and out of bounds array indexing
[ ] Changed no physics that affect existing maps
[ ] Tested the change with [ASan+UBSan or valgrind's memcheck](https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/#using-addresssanitizer--u...

c0d3d3v

@σℓí♡ ^

i need m_StrongWeakID in CCharacter. Is it not possible to update this for someone who is even in spec? m_StrongWeakID update here

Image attachment

16:46

Image attachment

σℓí♡

i need m_StrongWeakID in CCharacter. Is it not possible to update this for someone who is even in spec? m_StrongWeakID update here

why would you want it in spec?

17:00

you can not hook anyone in spec

diff without spec and in spec (edited)

Image attachment

Image attachment

on ddnet server, you can get the m_StrongWeakID from the snap... in extended data. On other servers it is not possible

@murpi nah i did not dm you o.O

m_pClient->m_Snap->m_aCharacters[ClientID]->m_ExtendedData.m_StrongWeakID its availibe if m_pClient->m_Snap->m_aCharacters[ClientID]->m_HasExtendedData is true

ye

17:03

ty

17:03

i try it

You've got a faker then ^^

σℓí♡

diff without spec and in spec (edited)

I would not show m_StrongWeakID when you spectate... it is strange because you can not hook anyone and since it is invalid if you are able to pause... its unnecessary. But that is only my opinion (edited)

[ddnet:master] 2 new commits

0bfd10d Remove pnglite shift ubsan - ardadem 83479c8 Merge #5476 - bors[bot]

17:05

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #5476 Remove pnglite shift ubsan

c0d3d3v

I would not show m_StrongWeakID when you spectate... it is strange because you can not hook anyone and since it is invalid if you are able to pause... its unnecessary. But that is only my opinion (edited)

okay, anyway m_pClient->m_Snap.m_aCharacters[pPlayerInfo->m_ClientID].m_Strong update after exiting spec

yes

it's probably better to leave it like this already

I also wondered why it was done using the predicted data... but that is so, because on other servers you do not have extended data. You could try to implement it, and make a video so that we get a feeling for it if it is good.

c0d3d3v

I also wondered why it was done using the predicted data... but that is so, because on other servers you do not have extended data. You could try to implement it, and make a video so that we get a feeling for it if it is good.

I can try to do this, but I do not know how to update this variable during spec

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #5478 Game crashes when i join Back in Time 3

It happens sometimes when i join Back in Time 3 ``` /home/arda/ddnet/src/game/client/prediction/gameworld.cpp:147:20: runtime error: member access within address 0x61900144dd80 which does not point to an object of type 'CEntity' 0x61900144dd80: note: object has invalid vptr 00 00 00 00 2a 00 80 78 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 18 84 14 e8 ^~~~~~~ invalid vptr SUMMARY: UndefinedBehaviorSanitizer: undefined-...

σℓí♡

I can try to do this, but I do not know how to update this variable during spec

it is updated automaticly

18:15

@nori are you ardadem on github?

yes

are you really sure you are on latest master?

yes i am pretty sure :D

what does git log tell as last commit?

83479c8f51bb8031aec5efd9b0ac8c428f66bbaa

18:16

which is latest commit

mh did you build in a clean directory?

yes

18:19

i know how to build, it is still happening

18:19

just i can't get backtrace :\

nori

just i can't get backtrace :\

I will try to reproduce it

it happens me almost all the time :d easy to reproduce

nori

it happens me almost all the time :d easy to reproduce

probably a driver problem as in the issues Robyt3 linked

c0d3d3v

it is updated automaticly

After exit spec

σℓí♡

After exit spec

yes you do not get a new id while in spec

Then others press kill -> indicator dont display

@nori are you on wayland?

yes i am

nori

yes i am

I guess it is a wayland driver problem. I can join Back in Time 3 without problem

18:30

If I try it with your enviroment variables ... (edited)

4.48 KB

try only DDNET_DRIVER=GLES

nori

try only DDNET_DRIVER=GLES

works for me

18:32

no problem

no idea

18:33

@Jupstar ✪ you had wayland installed too right?

nori

no idea

if you have X11 you could try that... For me wayland does not work...

but i don't think it is driver related, it happens only in back in time 3

18:34

i can join too but with few tries

nori

but i don't think it is driver related, it happens only in back in time 3

It is probably only on that map because a lot of players where there and since it is a big map, some have huge numbers. -> so a lot of potential for overflows Does it also happen on a empty server with that map? (edited)

yes it happens on server with no players too

nori

but i don't think it is driver related, it happens only in back in time 3

its a very big map, there is also a big hill climb map, try that too. If the driver overflows some buffer it could overflow into the heap area used by our entites... so it could be the driver I think (edited)

18:40

I think it is Chill+Let's+Climb (2/3) (edited)

c0d3d3v

I think it is Chill+Let's+Climb (2/3) (edited)

it opened in a second without problem (edited)

nori

@Jupstar ✪ you had wayland installed too right?

yes but wayland also was the only thing that made problems with SDL2's surface detection for vulkan

18:51

but that was like half a year ago

18:51

i assume its fixed already

nori

83479c8f51bb8031aec5efd9b0ac8c428f66bbaa

is it same commit as in the issue? or a different?

c0d3d3v

if you have X11 you could try that... For me wayland does not work...

u simply didnt use a wayland session

18:56

"unable to init SDL video: wayland not available" it fails before it can even start

Jupstar ✪

is it same commit as in the issue? or a different?

I have the commit you said, yes

19:07

it is here

19:07

-,-

19:11

is it can be related to wayland @Jupstar ✪? but it fails on prediction code

nori

I have the commit you said, yes

how did u start ddnet?

nori

is it can be related to wayland @Jupstar ✪? but it fails on prediction code

yes the code is defs not from latest master

19:11

u somehow use an old client

do i need to take a video to proof it is from ddnet github :D

ok, but did you also run asan?

yes

but why would it not detect a memory corruption

19:12

the*

i mean i compiled with it

19:13

export CC=clang export CXX=clang++ export CXXFLAGS="-fsanitize=address,undefined -fsanitize-recover=address,undefined -fno-omit-frame-pointer" export CFLAGS="-fsanitize=address,undefined -fsanitize-recover=address,undefined -fno-omit-frame-pointer" make -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Debug ../

ok really weird then, i mean could be caused by a different thread maybe

19:14

so yeah maybe wayland somehow writes into ddnet ram

it is happening to me for a long time, i just didn't report it :D

could try valgrind

19:15

maybe it finds out more

19:15

valgrind --show-reachable=yes --show-possibly-lost=yes --error-limit=no --log-fd=2 --track-fds=yes --trace-children=yes --redzone-size=256 --leak-check=full --show-leak-kinds=all --track-origins=yes --verbose --log-file=valgrind-out.txt --fair-sched=yes ./DDNet

nori

=================================================================
==4866==ERROR: LeakSanitizer: detected memory leaks

Direct leak of 216320 byte(s) in 3 object(s) allocated from:
    #0 0x4e11df in malloc (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x4e11df)
    #1 0x56b9d5 in CCommandProcessorFragment_OpenGL2::Cmd_CreateBufferObject(CCommandBuffer::SCommand_CreateBufferObject const*) /home/arda/ddnet/src/engine/client/backend/opengl/backend_opengl.cpp:1901:25
    #2 0x54ab3a in CCommandProcessorFragment_OpenGL::RunCommand(CCommandBuffer::SCommand const*) /home/arda/ddnet/src/engine/client/backend/opengl/backend_opengl.cpp:1107:49
    #3 0x9b63fb in CCommandProcessor_SDL_GL::RunBuffer(CCommandBuffer*) /home/arda/ddnet/src/engine/client/backend_sdl.cpp:248:20
    #4 0x9b2308 in CGraphicsBackend_Threaded::ThreadFunc(void*) /home/arda/ddnet/src/engine/client/backend_sdl.cpp:77:25
    #5 0x1d9cb53 in thread_run(void*) /home/arda/ddnet/src/base/system.cpp:721:2
    #6 0x7ffaf5e76ead in start_thread /builddir/glibc-2.32/nptl/pthread_create.c:463:8

Direct leak of 6240 byte(s) in 3 object(s) allocated from:
    #0 0x4e1387 in calloc (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x4e1387)
    #1 0x7ffaeb3f8251  (/usr/lib64/dri/radeonsi_dri.so+0xbb5251)

Direct leak of 104 byte(s) in 1 object(s) allocated from:
    #0 0x4e1548 in realloc (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x4e1548)
    #1 0x7ffaf843ba11  (/usr/lib/libSDL2-2.0.so.0+0x9da11)

SUMMARY: AddressSanitizer: 222664 byte(s) leaked in 7 allocation(s).

@Jupstar ✪ did you also see it? i get it when i close the ddnet

that means u run opengl 2

19:16

or 3

it is opengl es

19:16

3 es

19:16

afaik

doubt

19:16

GLES 3 uses opengl 3.3 code

19:16

that shouldnt leak any memory™️

[2022-06-22 21:44:43][gfx]: GPU vendor: AMD [2022-06-22 21:44:43][gfx]: GPU renderer: AMD RENOIR (LLVM 12.0.1, DRM 3.42, 5.15.47_1) [2022-06-22 21:44:43][gfx]: GPU version: OpenGL ES 3.2 Mesa 22.1.1

:q

19:17

wrong window:p

xd

nori

[2022-06-22 21:44:43][gfx]: GPU vendor: AMD [2022-06-22 21:44:43][gfx]: GPU renderer: AMD RENOIR (LLVM 12.0.1, DRM 3.42, 5.15.47_1) [2022-06-22 21:44:43][gfx]: GPU version: OpenGL ES 3.2 Mesa 22.1.1

and it leaks with that?

nori

=================================================================
==4866==ERROR: LeakSanitizer: detected memory leaks

Direct leak of 216320 byte(s) in 3 object(s) allocated from:
    #0 0x4e11df in malloc (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x4e11df)
    #1 0x56b9d5 in CCommandProcessorFragment_OpenGL2::Cmd_CreateBufferObject(CCommandBuffer::SCommand_CreateBufferObject const*) /home/arda/ddnet/src/engine/client/backend/opengl/backend_opengl.cpp:1901:25
    #2 0x54ab3a in CCommandProcessorFragment_OpenGL::RunCommand(CCommandBuffer::SCommand const*) /home/arda/ddnet/src/engine/client/backend/opengl/backend_opengl.cpp:1107:49
    #3 0x9b63fb in CCommandProcessor_SDL_GL::RunBuffer(CCommandBuffer*) /home/arda/ddnet/src/engine/client/backend_sdl.cpp:248:20
    #4 0x9b2308 in CGraphicsBackend_Threaded::ThreadFunc(void*) /home/arda/ddnet/src/engine/client/backend_sdl.cpp:77:25
    #5 0x1d9cb53 in thread_run(void*) /home/arda/ddnet/src/base/system.cpp:721:2
    #6 0x7ffaf5e76ead in start_thread /builddir/glibc-2.32/nptl/pthread_create.c:463:8

Direct leak of 6240 byte(s) in 3 object(s) allocated from:
    #0 0x4e1387 in calloc (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x4e1387)
    #1 0x7ffaeb3f8251  (/usr/lib64/dri/radeonsi_dri.so+0xbb5251)

Direct leak of 104 byte(s) in 1 object(s) allocated from:
    #0 0x4e1548 in realloc (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x4e1548)
    #1 0x7ffaf843ba11  (/usr/lib/libSDL2-2.0.so.0+0x9da11)

SUMMARY: AddressSanitizer: 222664 byte(s) leaked in 7 allocation(s).

i get it yeah

nori: is this the line of code it crashed at? "pEnt->m_pParent->m_DestroyTick = GameTick();"

nori

i get it yeah

what does gl_major print in f1?

19:20

i honestly dont see how this is possible

19:20

all gles code is called CCommandProcessorFragment_OpenGL2ES

why do i have all the weirdest bugs xd

not CCommandProcessorFragment_OpenGL2

Jupstar ✪

all gles code is called CCommandProcessorFragment_OpenGL2ES

CCommandProcessorFragment_OpenGLES2

19:23

Image attachment

19:23

for me the code doesnt get called

19:23

i dont see how this should be different for u

@Jupstar ✪ i'll try again, maybe i didn't export the gles backend when i get this

u dont need to export it anymore btw

19:24

u can now just select GLES ingame

probably i didn't export it before, it was normal opengl

19:26

i get this now

=================================================================
==27217==ERROR: LeakSanitizer: detected memory leaks

Direct leak of 6240 byte(s) in 3 object(s) allocated from:
    #0 0x4e1387 in calloc (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x4e1387)
    #1 0x7eff73a46251  (/usr/lib64/dri/radeonsi_dri.so+0xbb5251)

Direct leak of 104 byte(s) in 1 object(s) allocated from:
    #0 0x4e1548 in realloc (/home/arda/ddnet/build/DDNet+0x4e1548)
    #1 0x7eff80a97a11  (/usr/lib/libSDL2-2.0.so.0+0x9da11)

SUMMARY: AddressSanitizer: 6344 byte(s) leaked in 4 allocation(s).

19:26

with gles

ok

19:27

the other bug, really weird, i really wonder what corrupts the memory

19:27

must be smth asan cant detect i assume

19:27

have u tried the valgrind?

trml

nori: is this the line of code it crashed at? "pEnt->m_pParent->m_DestroyTick = GameTick();"

how can i try it? by putting break here?

Jupstar ✪

have u tried the valgrind?

not yet

I meant the line of code in gameworld.cpp:147

i put breakpoint there

19:31

client closed again

Jupstar ✪

valgrind --show-reachable=yes --show-possibly-lost=yes --error-limit=no --log-fd=2 --track-fds=yes --trace-children=yes --redzone-size=256 --leak-check=full --show-leak-kinds=all --track-origins=yes --verbose --log-file=valgrind-out.txt --fair-sched=yes ./DDNet

trying this now

Jupstar ✪

valgrind --show-reachable=yes --show-possibly-lost=yes --error-limit=no --log-fd=2 --track-fds=yes --trace-children=yes --redzone-size=256 --leak-check=full --show-leak-kinds=all --track-origins=yes --verbose --log-file=valgrind-out.txt --fair-sched=yes ./DDNet

it didn't launch ddnet and print bunch of library and hex stuff, is it normal? :D

not really

19:37

it should start it normally(but very slow)

19:38

and then put everything in the file valgrind-output.txt

valgrind-out.txt

42.8 KB

another year

19:38

https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/vi7pre/rust_tops_stackoverflow_survey_2022_as_the_most/

r/rust - Rust tops StackOverflow Survey 2022 as the most loved lang...

414 votes and 51 comments so far on Reddit

ah arch and dbg symbols suck i guess? xd

19:39

dunno what it wants

nori

Click to see attachment 🖼️

ah but did u disable asan?

19:40

i think asan + valgrind wont work

no

19:40

same build

19:40

okay i just build it as debug release right?

can also use debug if its reproducable

19:41

but dunno, since u the only one its probs wayland anyway

ok it is starting

19:41

very slow

19:41

:D

but i have rdna2 now too, maybe i can see if it crashes for me too on wayland in the weekend

ye valgrind is rly slow

hardly moving the cursor

yeah its slow, but it works without compile dependencies

19:45

and finds all kind of stuff

19:45

even uninitialized stuff

takes eternity

cant u like connect ip

no i mean joining the server

19:56

ok it is happened i guess

19:56

==31109== LEAK SUMMARY: ==31109== definitely lost: 11,772 bytes in 260 blocks ==31109== indirectly lost: 0 bytes in 0 blocks ==31109== possibly lost: 3,130,503 bytes in 47,191 blocks ==31109== still reachable: 11,516,001 bytes in 3,660 blocks ==31109== suppressed: 0 bytes in 0 blocks ==31109== ==31109== ERROR SUMMARY: 237 errors from 231 contexts (suppressed: 2 from 2)

19:56

is it catch it

19:56

valgrind-out.txt

2.78 MB

3mb leak

how do you even read it xd

possibly lost: 3,130,503 bytes in 47,191 blocks

19:58

xd

19:58

how long did u run it?

19:59

i think leaks add up so the more u run it with valgrind the more u find

dunno 5-10 mins

@nori does it also crash with vulkan btw?

oh thats reasonable

 Conditional jump or move depends on uninitialised value(s)
==31109==    at 0xEA773E8: ???
==31109==    by 0xE286FBE: ???
==31109==    by 0xDEFD5E1: ???
==31109==    by 0xDEFD92A: ???
==31109==    by 0xE289067: ???
==31109==    by 0xE2891A4: ???
==31109==    by 0xE28C08D: ???
==31109==    by 0xE377511: ???
==31109==    by 0xE377B87: ???
==31109==    by 0xE3381F4: ???
==31109==    by 0xE50F6E4: ???
==31109==    by 0x165867: CCommandProcessorFragment_OpenGLES3::Cmd_Clear(CCommandBuffer::SCommand_Clear const*) (backend_opengl3.cpp:816)
==31109==  Uninitialised value was created by a heap allocation

But that's probably deep inside the driver

19:59

Conditional jump or move depends on uninitialised value(s)
==31109==    at 0xEA773E8: ???
==31109==    by 0xE286FBE: ???
==31109==    by 0xDEFD5E1: ???
==31109==    by 0xDEFEF1F: ???
==31109==    by 0xDEF3C1D: ???
==31109==    by 0xDEE6FFC: ???
==31109==    by 0x4FF6A8D: ??? (in /usr/lib/libSDL2-2.0.so.0.22.0)
==31109==    by 0x212CF4: CCommandProcessorFragment_SDL::Cmd_Swap(CCommandBuffer::SCommand_Swap const*) (backend_sdl.cpp:188)

same with this

radeonsi

Jupstar ✪

@nori does it also crash with vulkan btw?

i'll try

and the uninitialized value way created by wayland

20:00

was*

Robyt3

and the uninitialized value way created by wayland

How did yo ufigure that? From the call?

20:00

you*

yeah, at least that's what I assume from the callstack

20:02

but is this really related to all the crashes in RemoveEntity?

Jupstar ✪

@nori does it also crash with vulkan btw?

i can't choose vulkan, it is not saving after restart

20:03

can i launch it with env variable?

./DDNet "gfx_backend Vulkan"

[2022-06-22 23:04:31][sdl]: SDL version 2.0.22 (compiled = 2.0.22) [2022-06-22 23:04:31][gfx]: Created Vulkan 1.0 context. [2022-06-22 23:04:31][gfx]: unable to create window: Installed Vulkan doesn't implement the VK_KHR_surface extension [2022-06-22 23:04:31][sdl]: SDL version 2.0.22 (compiled = 2.0.22) [2022-06-22 23:04:31][gfx]: Created OpenGL 3.0 context.

20:05

it is switching to opengl?

lmao

20:06

i really hope this is a SDL limitation

20:06

bcs else wayland drivers are really hard behind xD

20:06

but i also had bugs with wayland vulkan last time i tried :/

oh ok solved

20:07

i haven't installed vulkan driver before :D

ah ok

20:07

weird that it even loads some other vulkan driver

20:07

but probably its just the stub of the vulkan loader

Image attachment

20:08

works great

20:08

:D

xd

20:08

at least half a screen works

happened on vulkan too

Jupstar ✪

at least half a screen works

xD

20:09

[2022-06-22 23:08:35][vulkan]: warning: requested presentation mode was not available. falling back to mailbox / fifo relaxed. [2022-06-22 23:08:35][vulkan]: vulkan error: The device surface format fetching failed. [2022-06-22 23:08:35][assert]: /home/arda/ddnet/src/engine/client/backend/vulkan/backend_vulkan.cpp(1129): The device surface format fetching failed. [1] 32221 illegal hardware instruction SDL_VIDEODRIVER=wayland ./DDNet

20:09

print this

20:09

i can join others severs

20:09

but not bit3

mhh ok

20:10

but i think i had the exact same issue on vulkan on wayland

20:10

tabbing in and out killed it

20:10

but not related to joining any map xD

wayland kek

i got backtrace on vulkan

20:13

13.38 KB

but is that really related to joining the map?

20:14

looks to me like u tabbed out and in

i can join others

InitVulkanSwapChain

20:14

it somehow recreates the swapchain

20:15

could try ./DDNet "dbg_gfx 4"

20:15

ah and wait

20:15

https://archlinux.org/packages/extra/x86_64/vulkan-validation-layers/

20:15

install these

ok i tried and it joined, next try crashed again

20:15

without tab out

20:16

Vulkan-ValidationLayers-1.3.204.1_1

20:16

these i guess

yeah

Jupstar ✪

install these

i did

20:16

now what

/DDNet "dbg_gfx 4" "gfx_backend Vulkan"

20:17

and dont show crashlog, just the terminal output should be enough

i had crash while opening the game too now xd

ok lets see

20:19

im on wayland now too

2.58 KB

20:20

[2022-06-22 23:20:19][vulkan]: allocated chunk of memory with size: 129601200 for frame 2 (staging buffer)
[2022-06-22 23:20:19][vulkan]: allocated chunk of memory with size: 129601200 for frame 2 (buffer)
[2022-06-22 23:20:19][vulkan]: allocated chunk of memory with size: 14862640 for frame 2 (staging buffer)
[2022-06-22 23:20:19][vulkan]: allocated chunk of memory with size: 14862640 for frame 2 (buffer)
[2022-06-22 23:20:19][vulkan]: allocated chunk of memory with size: 9778080 for frame 2 (staging buffer)
[2022-06-22 23:20:19][vulkan]: allocated chunk of memory with size: 9778080 for frame 2 (buffer)
[2022-06-22 23:20:19][vulkan]: recreating swap chain requested by acquire next image (prepare frame).
[2022-06-22 23:20:20][vulkan]: recreating swap chain.
[2022-06-22 23:20:20][vulkan]: warning: requested presentation mode was not available. falling back to mailbox / fifo relaxed.
[2022-06-22 23:20:20][vulkan]: minimal swap image count 4
[2022-06-22 23:20:20][vulkan_debug]: Validation Warning: [ UNASSIGNED-BestPractices-Error-Result ] Object 0: handle = 0x55bc2e50ff80, type = VK_OBJECT_TYPE_INSTANCE; | MessageID = 0x5f379b89 | vkGetPhysicalDeviceSurfaceFormatsKHR(): Returned error VK_ERROR_SURFACE_LOST_KHR.
[2022-06-22 23:20:20][vulkan]: vulkan error: The device surface format fetching failed.
[2022-06-22 23:20:20][assert]: /home/arda/ddnet/src/engine/client/backend/vulkan/backend_vulkan.cpp(1129): The device surface format fetching failed.
[1]    757 illegal hardware instruction  ./DDNet "dbg_gfx 4"

20:20

it is after crash

yeah i assume this is SDL2 or driver limitation, tho its weird the swapchain change is triggered for no sense "recreating swap chain requested by acquire next image (prepare frame)."

20:21

VK_ERROR_SURFACE_LOST_KHR is usually GPU crash

20:21

ah nice

20:21

for me it works

SDL_VIDEODRIVER=wayland used this right?

20:22

otherwise it is x11

SDL_VIDEODRIVER=wayland ./DDNet "dbg_gfx 4"

20:22

i hope its wayland, can i somehow check ingame?

don't think so :D

nori

Click to see attachment 🖼️

maybe if you see this xD

i can compare fps

20:23

wayland is usually a bit faster

input lag comparable too

i think xwayland is still on wayland

20:26

so both get input lag

20:26

but it does load x11 library apparently mhh

20:28

xD

20:28

xeyes

20:28

can detect it

20:28

so yes, was native wayland, no crashes for me on mesa (driver: 22.0.5)

20:28

u probs have 22.2

22.1.1

wtf is this resolution wayland reports xD

Image attachment

20:31

2048 xD, lets add all power of 2 resolutions xd

20:31

when i click on a small resolution it suddenly reports 8k resolutions xD wtf going on

20:31

its really buggy, just not crashing on back in times 3

20:32

it also crashes when i try to select them xD

i never had bugs with gles on wayland

20:32

only bit2

20:32

bit3*

but hear me out, im the first person on the planet with 8k 240hz

Image attachment

monkalaugh

1

justatest

1

20:33

yeah sry cant help, just accept xwayland for now if that runs better

20:33

maybe in 10 years wayland is king, then we all switch and are happy^^

Jupstar ✪

yeah sry cant help, just accept xwayland for now if that runs better

lol

20:33

:D

20:33

i am okay with trying yo join 5 times :D

20:34

it eventually joins

xD

@Jupstar ✪ did you try gles on wayland too?

20:35

vulkan itself already buggy

20:36

maybe it is triggering another thing :d

But vk worked for me ^^ can try tomorrow if i don't forget

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #5479 Updated french translation

Checklist

[ ] Tested the change ingame
[ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
[ ] Tested in combination with possibly related configuration options
[ ] Written a unit test if it works standalone, system.c especially
[ ] Considered possible null pointers and out of bounds array indexing
[ ] Changed no physics that affect existing maps
[ ] Tested the change with [ASan+UBSan or valgrind's memcheck](https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/#using-addresssanitizer--u...

@deen if we want to have https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/5210 in 16.2 should I rebase it on your 16.2 PR or on latest master?

master

21:56

make all PRs on master, I cherry-pick them to 16.2

ok

It should be extremely rare that we have to make a change on 16.2 but not on master

21:57

for example if we reworked an entire feature in master, but the old version in 16.2 has a small bug, we could make the fix directly on 16.2

21:57

16.2-devel is basically forked off of master, and will die at some point, never gets merged back into master

I see... I have mixed things up again

is there a way to get more verbose log than just ./DDNet?

[ddnet:master] 2 new commits

4e20de1 Updated french translation - Chairn 6055a7d Merge #5479 - bors[bot]

21:59

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #5479 Updated french translation

cauldron

is there a way to get more verbose log than just ./DDNet?

some messages are only displayed with the debug hud active [CTR + SHIFT + D]

cauldron

is there a way to get more verbose log than just ./DDNet?

what version are you on?

22:11

But ./DDNet "debug 1" might help

master branch from yesterday or few days ago. using debug 1 gave me a few [uuid] tagged logs with api calls or something

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #5480 Update spanish.txt

Checklist

[ ] Tested the change ingame
[ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
[ ] Tested in combination with possibly related configuration options
[ ] Written a unit test if it works standalone, system.c especially
[ ] Considered possible null pointers and out of bounds array indexing
[ ] Changed no physics that affect existing maps
[ ] Tested the change with [ASan+UBSan or valgrind's memcheck](https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/#using-addresssanitizer--u...

23:52

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #5481 Add Black as our Python formatter

Would be nice if we could use a formatter for python files, agree on project settings for the formatter and also add it to scripts/fix_style.py. There are two well known Python formatter: autopep8 and black. I would recommend black because I have good experiences with it, and I think black has the better default rules but both are good formatter, and we probably want to customize the formatting rules anyway.

well okay @Patiga my friend didn't have much to say and maybe their opinion has changed a bit but

matrix has vastly more heavy metadata handling through the server protocol compared to XMPP, which is a performance concern
as a protocol it's generally "heavier" than XMPP (didn't specify)
still better than Discord, and easier to onboard compared to XMPP
maybe XMPP is technically better but it lacks hype and devs

23:55

and the last sentiment they had was basically just

23:55

it exists, it's e2ee, and it's federated

23:55

so not much to complain about for now while it's the only reasonable one

23:57

i really like XMPP so im sad to see the last ambassador for it in my life kinda raise Matrix's hand in defeat

23:57

but hey that's life right

23:57

a new shiny protocol comes along and devs are like YOOOOO

thanks for checking up on it again!

23:59

I can understand that you like XMPP and are maybe not that hyped about Matrix

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