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DDraceNetwork
Development / developer
Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.tw/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories — IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet
Between 2022-05-01 00:00:00Z and 2022-05-02 00:00:00Z
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Cipy29
weird question: why does the 3-tile jump from x = .34 work from the first pillar but not from the 2nd pillar?
M Emile 2022-05-01 00:27:53Z
@Hav
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Nagi01 {LAN} 2022-05-01 01:17:14Z
now i can say i use arch btw
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Jeremy 2022-05-01 02:56:17Z
oh boy
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lynn 2022-05-01 04:09:57Z
is it possible to change the coordinates to integers with subpixel values
04:10
or is this not worthwhile
04:10
it would break existing maps that depend on floating point stuff maybe
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Learath2 2022-05-01 04:10:25Z
It would break a lot, no way
04:10
Also gpus don't really love integers, Jupstar might not enjoy it either
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lynn 2022-05-01 04:11:01Z
gotcha
04:11
that's very odd
04:11
but i guess it makes sense
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Learath2 2022-05-01 04:11:37Z
Which part is odd?
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lynn 2022-05-01 04:11:59Z
oh the GPU liking floats
04:12
sorry (edited)
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Learath2 2022-05-01 04:12:17Z
Ah, yeah, gpu people love their floats
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lynn 2022-05-01 04:12:59Z
qualitative logic or something idk
04:13
embracing imprecision
04:17
oh i had an idea
04:18
some play_sound command so you can even have audio cues for binds
04:18
or to quickly test your sounds in game maybe
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GitHub BOT 2022-05-01 04:30:20Z
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ddnet-maps
[ddnet-maps:master] 1 new commit
f50dca1 A Aimbot - ddnet-maps
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c0d3d3v
I'm sure you mean this as a joke. There is no real reason to encrypt ddnet chat xD but we could use some kind of DTLS to encrypt the complete ddnet communication to stop mitm attacks xD
Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 06:30:31Z
why should this be a joke? i find it inresponsible that we havent done it yet actually
06:30
every shitty static html site has encryption nowadays
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Learath2
Also gpus don't really love integers, Jupstar might not enjoy it either
Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 06:31:44Z
its not that i wouldnt enjoy better math than floats, but changing everything to ints is not an easy task and would defs require to drop gl 1.x
06:33
i mean in the end floats were invented to make real number math kinda possible. But inaccuracy ofc can suck, for graphical stuff its probs not that horrible since pixels are kinda a huge mathimatical limiation already
06:33
😄
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Learath2 2022-05-01 06:34:07Z
I thought you'd have performance concerns with using ints
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 06:35:42Z
i can not say if ints solve a problem for us. But i guess new hardware to handle fixed size floating point types would be at least cool
06:36
real double precision on GPUs is also cool, independent of if they'd fix smth for us
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chillerdragon BOT 2022-05-01 07:11:20Z
Ah Classic. But there is no place where I can check if this is the case right? (@deen)
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deen
ChillerDragon: Yes, there was a DoS attack, the hoster tried blocking it and probably (as always) blocked legitimate packets too
2022-04-30 21:22:58Z
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GitHub BOT 2022-05-01 07:12:12Z
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Jupeyy
[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #5056 New emote on join relies on UB
https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/blob/567aeb7d9eba07cb134421d469544e6ed0c2fb79/src/engine/client/client.cpp#L2115 https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/blob/567aeb7d9eba07cb134421d469544e6ed0c2fb79/src/engine/client/client.cpp#L2143 Dont use the same buffer as dest and source. @sjrc6
07:15
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Jupeyy
[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #5057 New Emote on join menu code should be merged with the wheel
I like this feature, but I don't understand why we need a new menu entry for it: If I want an emote from the emote wheel, i purposly click it anyway, so just save it here. If i missclicked I gonna repick a new one anyway I don't understand what problem the new menu solves. @sjrc6 maybe you can explain it to me, maybe I'm just stupid rn :D
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Jupstar ✪
why should this be a joke? i find it inresponsible that we havent done it yet actually
Ryozuki 2022-05-01 07:25:33Z
this is true
07:28
There is no real reason to encrypt ddnet chat
07:29
is something someone who doesnt value privacy would say
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Ryozuki 2022-05-01 07:40:46Z
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Chairn
@heinrich5991 how are the files supposed to be executed for #5017 ?
heinrich5991 2022-05-01 07:56:23Z
the scripts/generate_unicode_confusables_data.py script tells you where to get UnicodeData.txt and confusables.txt
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Ryozuki
There is no real reason to encrypt ddnet chat
heinrich5991 2022-05-01 07:56:58Z
encrypting ddnet chat without authenticating the encryption doesn't do much
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heinrich5991
encrypting ddnet chat without authenticating the encryption doesn't do much
Learath2 2022-05-01 08:00:32Z
It would prevent packet injection I guess
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heinrich5991 2022-05-01 08:03:08Z
hm? what do you mean?
08:03
it'd allow people to manually detect MITM if we displayed the session fingerprint somewhere
08:03
people usually don't do that though
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Learath2 2022-05-01 08:04:11Z
If we do dh kex, and use that to encrypt mitm can't inject anything into the connection, can it?
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heinrich5991 2022-05-01 08:04:20Z
it mitms the dh kex
08:05
you can fundamentally never be MITM free without a way to authenticate your peer out-of-band. the server in the middle can just chat with each of you and reencrypt everything
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Learath2 2022-05-01 08:06:17Z
I was thinking of injection after the connection got established
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heinrich5991 2022-05-01 08:06:30Z
ah yes, that's secure then
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GitHub BOT 2022-05-01 08:07:31Z
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sjrc6
[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #5058 Fix undefined behavior in default eyes string formating
https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/5057 stop using the same buffer as dest and source.

Checklist

  • [ ] Tested the change ingame
  • [ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
  • [ ] Tested in combination with possibly related configuration options
  • [ ] Written a unit test if it works standalone, system.c especially
  • [ ] Considered possible null pointers and out of bounds array indexing
  • [ ] Changed no physics that affect existing maps
  • [ ] Tested the change with...
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deen 2022-05-01 08:16:32Z
chillerdragon: only my emails 😄
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GitHub BOT 2022-05-01 08:33:34Z
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bors[bot]
[ddnet:master] 2 new commits
488b781 fix usage of undefined behavior for default eyes - sjrc6 3bed3be Merge #5058 - bors[bot]
08:33
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bors[bot]
[ddnet/ddnet] Issue closed: #5056 New emote on join relies on UB
08:33
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bors[bot]
[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #5058 Fix undefined behavior in default eyes string formating
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GitHub BOT 2022-05-01 08:58:44Z
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C0D3D3V
[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #5055 free all the dragger snap ids
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heinrich5991 2022-05-01 09:12:15Z
it seems that there are two different concepts tangled up in the console/logging
09:12
one is logging
09:12
the other is "responses to the command you just entered" (for rcon, chat commands)
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Learath2 2022-05-01 09:18:56Z
Yep, those two have been conjoined forever
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GitHub BOT 2022-05-01 09:18:59Z
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heinrich5991
[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #5059 Don't print the first "Waiting for score threads to complete"
Looks nicer IMO if you don't show the message if there's no actual waiting.

Checklist

  • [x] Tested the change ingame
  • [ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
  • [ ] Tested in combination with possibly related configuration options
  • [ ] Written a unit test if it works standalone, system.c especially
  • [ ] Considered possible null pointers and out of bounds array indexing
  • [ ] Changed no physics that affect existing maps
  • [ ] Tested the change with [ASan+UBSan or va...
09:19
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heinrich5991
[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #5060 Only output messages intended for chat to the user of a chat command
Fixes #5052. The problem seems to be that there are two different concepts tangled up in console/logging. One is actual logging as in other programs. The other is "responses to the user of the command that was just entered", like for rcon or chat commands. This issue isn't fixed by this commit.

Checklist

  • [x] Tested the change ingame
  • [ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
  • [ ] Tested in combination with possibly related configuration options
  • [ ] Written a un...
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 09:29:03Z
whats the reason if ping completly missing? geo ip lookup failed?
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heinrich5991 2022-05-01 09:32:12Z
that's a bug
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[quakenet] ChillerDragon BOT 2022-05-01 09:41:42Z
@deen where can i signup for that mailing list? hehe
09:42
so your hoster always sends you a mail when a new ddos is detected and he starts filtering?
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heinrich5991 2022-05-01 09:43:01Z
hetzner does that, at least
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[quakenet] ChillerDragon BOT 2022-05-01 09:43:05Z
i see
09:43
i am having such a hard time to find the motive behind the constant ddos over years thats why i am a bit skeptic if it is always ddos or something else we can maybe fix
09:44
"ddos" seems to be the goto excuse. I see it in game a lot when people just have a poor connection they immedetialy suspect beging ddosed -.-
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deen 2022-05-01 09:46:41Z
GER2 last week, every pike is an attack. For FRA it's harder to show since the hoster blocks them
Image attachment
09:46
spike*
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[quakenet] ChillerDragon BOT 2022-05-01 09:47:04Z
that is the unfiltered traffic?
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heinrich5991 2022-05-01 09:47:05Z
logarithmic scale!
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deen 2022-05-01 09:47:09Z
yes
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[quakenet] ChillerDragon BOT 2022-05-01 09:47:11Z
that wont be shown on the ddnet website?
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deen 2022-05-01 09:47:21Z
It's from https://ddnet.tw/stats/server/
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[quakenet] ChillerDragon BOT 2022-05-01 09:47:21Z
any chance to make this graph public?
09:47
a
09:47
ok nvm then
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heinrich5991 2022-05-01 09:47:31Z
https://ddnet.tw/stats/server/
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[quakenet] ChillerDragon BOT 2022-05-01 09:47:48Z
heinrich u still got wire?
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heinrich5991 2022-05-01 09:48:27Z
you and fokkonaut are my last contacts there. I don't open it regularly
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[quakenet] ChillerDragon BOT 2022-05-01 09:48:43Z
fokkonaut :D
09:48
i just slid in your dms i dont want to discuss this in public -.-
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Learath2 2022-05-01 09:49:17Z
Ooh secrets
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[quakenet] ChillerDragon BOT 2022-05-01 09:50:19Z
nudes
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fokkonaut 2022-05-01 09:52:57Z
xd
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GitHub BOT 2022-05-01 10:10:20Z
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bors[bot]
[ddnet:master] 2 new commits
23ef309 Don't print the first "Waiting for score threads to complete" - heinrich5991 ea0884f Merge #5059 - bors[bot]
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Jupstar ✪
every shitty static html site has encryption nowadays
c0d3d3v 2022-05-01 10:14:51Z
tls encription of a html side is e2s not e2e, so if you want to encrypt chat of a game e2e we would get attention of NSA soon
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heinrich5991 2022-05-01 10:15:23Z
no, that's not a problem
10:15
the NSA is not interested in a game just because it has e2e chat
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fokkonaut 2022-05-01 10:15:53Z
@heinrich5991 wouldnt it be cleaner to not log the chat responses anyways so instead of using Print() use SendChatTarget directly like its done in any other places. The old commands still have Print because thats probably from greyfox ddrace
10:16
the chat responses always fill the logs while it doesnt make sense imo
10:16
the messages from SendChat, also server messages sent to everyone get logged is right, as its shown to everyone
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heinrich5991 2022-05-01 10:20:13Z
SendChatTarget doesn't really make sense either, since it's more of a "respond to the person executing the command"
10:20
the same problem exists for rcon commands
10:20
anyway, with the PR, the chat responses are no longer in the logs
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GitHub BOT 2022-05-01 10:21:41Z
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Robyt3
[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #5061 Improve demo slice popup, minor refactoring of UI/menus
Improve demo slice popup:
  • add more margins
  • decrease font size of error message slightly
  • correct handling of all allowed UI scale values:
    • fix overlapping elements on some UI scales by laying out all CUIRects (except the buttons) from top to bottom
    • make New name: label scaled
Refactoring:
  • Use CUI::Margin instead of both HMargin and VMargin, when the margin value is identical.
  • Pass 0 instead of CUIRect pointer in some cases where the value is never used, i.e...
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heinrich5991
SendChatTarget doesn't really make sense either, since it's more of a "respond to the person executing the command"
fokkonaut 2022-05-01 10:22:41Z
isnt that what is wanted here? xd
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heinrich5991 2022-05-01 10:23:26Z
what is wanted is "respond to the person executing the command"
10:23
but SendChatTarget doesn't fit that description
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c0d3d3v
tls encription of a html side is e2s not e2e, so if you want to encrypt chat of a game e2e we would get attention of NSA soon
Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 10:25:48Z
lmao, do you fear the NSA? XD
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GitHub BOT 2022-05-01 10:28:40Z
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bors[bot]
[ddnet:master] 2 new commits
b20f160 Add logging macros log_{error,warn,info,debug,trace} - heinrich5991 68b6027 Merge #5037 - bors[bot]
10:28
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bors[bot]
[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #5037 Add logging macros `log_{error,warn,info,debug,trace}`
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heinrich5991
but SendChatTarget doesn't fit that description
fokkonaut 2022-05-01 10:28:58Z
why?
10:29
its sends a chat message output to the target being the executor of the command
10:29
xd
10:29
Print doesnt make sense here, since Print would be print to console (rcon, local, etc)
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Jupstar ✪
yes
gerdoe 2022-05-01 10:44:48Z
troll
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gerdoe
troll
Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 10:45:22Z
what do u have trouble with? 😄
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deen
GER2 last week, every pike is an attack. For FRA it's harder to show since the hoster blocks them
Nagi01 {LAN} 2022-05-01 10:46:40Z
hey, what do you guys use to generate this chart ?
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fokkonaut
its sends a chat message output to the target being the executor of the command
heinrich5991 2022-05-01 10:49:52Z
no, because you have to care about the fact that the command sends it to chat and need to track the caller yourself
10:50
this doesn't work generically, if you did that in an rcon command, the output would end up in the wrong place (the chat)
10:50
we'd need some way to do this response generically, in a way that works with rcon and chat, IMO
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GitHub BOT 2022-05-01 10:51:39Z
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Robyt3
[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #5062 UI scale breaks start menu
With UI scale below 100:
  • the aspect ratio of the images is incorrect
  • buttons move further down
  • size of buttons increases
With UI scale above 100:
  • text overlaps images
  • buttons move further up
  • size of buttons decreases
I'm don't think it's a good idea to apply the UI scale in every V/HSplit. This requires a bunch of fixes like / UI()->Scale() to split elements scale independent again. Relevant TODO: https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/blob/68b6027114207d7f61b4b57ed80a...
10:52
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bors[bot]
[ddnet:master] 5 new commits
e291a3a Move variable declaration - Robyt3 a1614e4 Use Margin instead of both VMargin and HMargin - Robyt3 f464247 Remove redundant parameters which are overridden later - Robyt3 cc9ed7e Add margins to demo slice popup, decrease error font size, UI scaling - Robyt3 21433f7 Merge #5061 - bors[bot]
10:52
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bors[bot]
[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #5061 Improve demo slice popup, minor refactoring of UI/menus
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Jupstar ✪
what do u have trouble with? 😄
gerdoe 2022-05-01 10:56:35Z
just walking around with idea of youtube like demo database site kekw
10:56
so current problem is demo render
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gerdoe
so current problem is demo render
Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 10:59:10Z
u can use the client in the web to render demos
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Jupstar ✪
u can use the client in the web to render demos
gerdoe 2022-05-01 11:00:01Z
kek nice
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 11:01:45Z
https://aliveclan.de/ddnettest/load_map.html here example maybe a client side cache for the ddnet data would be nice to add, so it doesnt always load it from the web dunno what the limits in javascript localstorage are or the databases
11:02
the "load demo" button can be replaced by a url parsing
11:02
u can also call javascript code directly in c++ with emscripten
11:03
that makes stuff really ez to comunicate
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[quakenet] ChillerDragon BOT 2022-05-01 11:51:21Z
i think localstorage in browser can be pretty high i remember some dude doing full blown database stuff in the client D
11:58
@Jupstar ✪ when ddnet electron app? for 1000000 fps... oh wait
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 11:58:30Z
we need -1 fps
11:58
then we overflow eventually
11:58
or underflow xd
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[quakenet] ChillerDragon BOT 2022-05-01 12:00:49Z
smart
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Ryozuki 2022-05-01 12:05:29Z
browsers have a indexdb
12:05
or smth like that
12:05
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/IndexedDB_API
IndexedDB API - Web APIs | MDN
IndexedDB is a low-level API for client-side storage of significant amounts of structured data, including files/blobs. This API uses indexes to enable high-performance searches of this data. While Web Storage is useful for storing smaller amounts of data, it is less useful for storing larger amounts of structured data. IndexedDB provides a solut...
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M Emile
@Hav
Cipy29 2022-05-01 12:44:45Z
Wut? Did you also run into that? xd
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Nagi01 {LAN}
hey, what do you guys use to generate this chart ?
deen 2022-05-01 13:03:01Z
RRD and some scripts https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet-scripts/tree/master/rrd as well as the raw serverstatus data from https://ddnet.tw/status/
ddnet-scripts/rrd at master · ddnet/ddnet-scripts
The magic scripts that make DDNet run. Contribute to ddnet/ddnet-scripts development by creating an account on GitHub.
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13:03
I wrote a bit about it here: https://hookrace.net/blog/server-statistics/
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GitHub BOT 2022-05-01 13:04:11Z
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def-
[ddnet-web:master] 1 new commit
64df45e Frontpage video - def-
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Nagi01 {LAN} 2022-05-01 13:06:07Z
ty, rrd looks very clean and suckless
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Ryozuki 2022-05-01 13:09:22Z
monkalaugh
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Voxel 2022-05-01 13:55:46Z
woah https://github.com/teeworlds/teeworlds/blob/5c5b54c8eb00ac70c4eb1bd09b74554a0c865bdc/datasrc%2Fgame.png
teeworlds/game.png at 5c5b54c8eb00ac70c4eb1bd09b74554a0c865bdc · te...
A retro multiplayer shooter. Contribute to teeworlds/teeworlds development by creating an account on GitHub.
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13:55
whats this weapon?
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 13:57:29Z
harpoon
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heinrich5991 2022-05-01 13:57:29Z
harpoon, I think
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Voxel 2022-05-01 13:57:49Z
interesting
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GitHub BOT 2022-05-01 14:10:46Z
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def-
[ddnet-web:master] 1 new commit
e39a83d No more GER1 - def-
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heinrich5991
harpoon, I think
nouaa 2022-05-01 14:54:36Z
what it does? something like a hook?
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louis 2022-05-01 14:55:04Z
yeah its like a hook
14:55
it can grab hearts and other weapons too
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nouaa 2022-05-01 14:56:00Z
poggers
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[quakenet] ChillerDragon BOT 2022-05-01 14:57:59Z
spawnblocker on 176.9.114.238:8331
14:58
sos
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c0d3d3v 2022-05-01 15:15:49Z
has someone an idea why we need IDs for snapshots? I have not read the complete code, but I have no clue yet why they are necessary or what they help with 😄 but they can be used to DOS the servers xD https://youtu.be/G3nVtdH0--Q (the DOS attack starts at 1:13) In the terminal I log the number of free snap ids sell also #5054 and #4723 (edited)
theUsername IsToL0ng
dos ddnet 2022 05 01 12 08 20
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DDNet BOT 2022-05-01 15:15:49Z
https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/5054 https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/4723
Crash in SnapNewItem · Issue #5054 · ddnet/ddnet
Core was generated by `./DDRace64-Server_sql -f servers/8322.cfg'. Program terminated with signal SIGILL, Illegal instruction. #0 dbg_break () at /home/teeworlds/src/master/src/base/system....
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Crash with failed dbg_assert: incorrect id · Issue #4723 · ddnet/dd...
Crash on CHN8, log is already deleted: Core was generated by `./DDRace64-Server_sql -f servers/8321.cfg'. Program terminated with signal SIGILL, Illegal instruction. #0 dbg_break () at /hom...
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 15:16:28Z
i wonder why we assert
15:16
but deen didnt really give me a real answer
15:16
all snapitems are checked for nullptr
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[quakenet] ChillerDragon BOT 2022-05-01 15:22:38Z
eeedits.....
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 15:23:25Z
improve quakenet and add edits xd
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GitHub BOT 2022-05-01 15:23:38Z
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bors[bot]
[ddnet:master] 3 new commits
4061069 Remove unused chat response variables - heinrich5991 d5f8bc2 Only output messages intended for chat to the user of a chat command - heinrich5991 1492768 Merge #5060 - bors[bot]
15:23
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bors[bot]
[ddnet/ddnet] Issue closed: #5052 Two team joining messages
15:23
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bors[bot]
[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #5060 Only output messages intended for chat to the user of a chat command
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Learath2
Also gpus don't really love integers, Jupstar might not enjoy it either
Chairn 2022-05-01 16:32:37Z
gpus loves integers
16:37
any cpu/gpu prefer integers over float
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 16:38:07Z
tho certain calculations are slower on ints
16:38
than flots
16:38
a
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Chairn 2022-05-01 16:38:14Z
floats are a mess to handle at the hardware level
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Jupstar ✪
tho certain calculations are slower on ints
Chairn 2022-05-01 16:38:24Z
which ones?
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 16:38:29Z
division for example
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Chairn 2022-05-01 16:38:39Z
for single precision yes
16:38
you still have a 23 bits division
16:39
for double, you have a 50 sth bits division, so better than 64 bits
16:39
but for instance, if we had to change all floats to integers in DDNet, 32 bits would be enough
16:39
with 16 bits integer part and 16 bits fractional part for fixed point
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 16:40:11Z
probs could work yeah
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Chairn 2022-05-01 16:40:52Z
well, we need roughly 5 or 6 bits for the fractional part due to a tile being 32 pixels
16:40
so 16 is more than enough (edited)
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 16:41:20Z
but 16 bits for integer part also means we have a strict maximum
16:41
1 tile is 32 units i think in the simulation part
16:41
so around 2048 tiles
16:42
or put that in the fractional part
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Jupstar ✪
but 16 bits for integer part also means we have a strict maximum
Chairn 2022-05-01 16:42:07Z
right now, maximum velocity is around 10k, maximum map size is around 4k ?
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 16:42:13Z
but would require a rewrite
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Chairn 2022-05-01 16:42:18Z
not really
16:42
sed -i 's/float/Q1616/g' **
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 16:42:39Z
xd
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Chairn 2022-05-01 16:42:46Z
just define a proper class with proper operator overload
16:42
i already have one
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Chairn
you still have a 23 bits division
Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 17:02:08Z
i would assume even a short would loose in division against double do u have some benchmarks?
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Ryozuki 2022-05-01 17:12:43Z
developers coding ddnet
Image attachment
gigachad 1
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Ryozuki
developers coding ddnet
kio 2022-05-01 17:20:27Z
yes
17:20
now
17:20
Graphics()->TextureSet(Graphics()->LoadTexture("imagesogay.png", IStorage::TYPE_ALL, CImageInfo::FORMAT_AUTO, 0));
17:20
why this show me a multicolor nothing? xd
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Ryozuki
developers coding ddnet
Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 17:23:40Z
i think i havent sit straighter than rn now after seeing this xD
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Jupstar ✪
i would assume even a short would loose in division against double do u have some benchmarks?
Chairn 2022-05-01 17:37:31Z
not really, but look at the operation itself
17:37
short division is 16 bits integer division
17:37
double division is complex operation
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 17:38:38Z
but i only trust numbers dxd
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Chairn 2022-05-01 17:38:39Z
lemme look at my old courses
17:39
in hardware design, its really clear
17:41
this is what i have in a course
17:41
1. handle special case for denormalized numbers
17:41
2. substract exponents and divide mantissas (integer division)
17:42
3. renormalize mantissa if it's lower than 1 and update exponent
17:42
if one of the number is denormalized, 3. has extra step to ensure the value of the result mantissa
17:43
4. truncate results and handle rounding
17:43
5. handle overflow or underflow
17:43
in the design itself, you see that floating point division is way more complex
17:44
as division is a quite complex and rare operation, hardware operators are not pipelined so they have poor throughput
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 17:44:48Z
but integer divisions are basically a loop
17:44
doesnt need to be faster
17:46
e.g. https://stackoverflow.com/a/41570985
Floating point vs integer calculations on modern hardware
I am doing some performance critical work in C++, and we are currently using integer calculations for problems that are inherently floating point because "its faster". This causes a whole lot of an...
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Chairn 2022-05-01 17:48:53Z
they don't give units ??
17:49
but i think you and i talk about 2 different thing
17:49
you're interested in throughput
17:49
i am interested in one operation time
17:49
i believe they have pipelined floating point operator while integers one are not and takes 5 full cycles
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 17:52:01Z
mh ok, i'd still like to see numbers, but yes its not 100% comparable per se the delay of the processing units might also take into account eventually
17:52
hard to say
17:52
maybe if u finished your module for teeworlds we can see
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Chairn 2022-05-01 17:52:47Z
im also looking for the number of execution unit
17:53
integers division is often single execution unit while floating point have multiple execution unit
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trml 2022-05-01 17:53:13Z
are there many divisions in the code (except by constant values)?
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Chairn 2022-05-01 17:53:29Z
as the core are OOO, they benefit more from the multiple execution units when performing integer operations
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trml
are there many divisions in the code (except by constant values)?
Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 17:54:08Z
i guess length math
17:54
and i dunno how exactly specific functions are implemented
17:54
sin, sqrt etc (edited)
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Chairn 2022-05-01 17:54:43Z
grep -rin '=.*/' | wc -l 1771
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 17:55:05Z
xd our grep pro
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Chairn 2022-05-01 17:55:07Z
floating point functions are often polynomes approximation
17:55
+ some table for faster initialization of first rounds
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 17:55:41Z
r u good in recursive regex, dunno if u call it like that but i basically need to find a string(i dunno the name but pattern) and match against that string
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Chairn 2022-05-01 17:55:43Z
looks like most division are by 32 😄
17:55
you can do that with python regex
17:56
you can match a string, and match only if it rematches later
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 17:58:08Z
i didnt find a solution for vscodium so guess i need to use an external tool ^^
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Chairn 2022-05-01 17:58:35Z
https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/microarchitectures/kaby_lake#Core develop execution unit
17:59
hum, doesn't say anything about floating point EU
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trml 2022-05-01 18:01:01Z
oh, nice. it seems most are by constants, but its probably used often for things like length/normalizing vectors yes
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Jupstar ✪
i didnt find a solution for vscodium so guess i need to use an external tool ^^
Ryozuki 2022-05-01 18:02:46Z
eh, vscodium uses ripgrep, written in rust iirc, it by default doesnt have backreferences and look arounds enabled so it performs in linear time
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 18:03:03Z
yes, i also never needed it 😄
18:03
in my whole life XD
18:03
but then everything changed
18:03
and the firenation begin to attack
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Chairn
hum, doesn't say anything about floating point EU
Chairn 2022-05-01 18:04:38Z
i believe it's actually 2 EU for floating point, and one for integer division
18:04
+ the fact that floating point operation are compiled into SSE2 and not x87
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 18:05:34Z
anyway fixed floating points math is interesting, so defs finish it if u have time
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Chairn 2022-05-01 18:06:20Z
oh, i never tried it, i just said i have already a class to do this that i developped for Arduino
18:06
because Arduino doesn't have floating point hardware, so it definitely helped in that case
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 18:07:06Z
then start xdd
18:07
rplace
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Chairn 2022-05-01 18:07:08Z
but it doesn"t have hardware divider either so it still relied on complex algorithm to perform the remaining division 😄
18:07
i think you meant :rnow: (edited)
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 18:07:42Z
soon™️
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Chairn 2022-05-01 18:08:59Z
as you can see here, looks like the division is pipelined https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/docs/intrinsics-guide/index.html#text=div&techs=SSE,SSE2&ig_expand=2734,2707,2689
18:09
throughput is lower than latency so it looks like they have between 2 to 3 stages divider
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 18:09:43Z
but if it can be pipelined its still an advantage tho
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Chairn 2022-05-01 18:09:50Z
it is 🙂
18:10
it is for desktop, not for embedded device (higher power consumption)
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 18:10:16Z
yeah 😄
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Chairn 2022-05-01 18:11:08Z
LOL, did they use excel to fill the tables 😄
18:11
Image attachment
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 18:11:37Z
November? XD
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Chairn 2022-05-01 18:11:44Z
11-14 seems to have been misinterpreted 😄
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 18:11:51Z
xD
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Ryozuki 2022-05-01 18:22:07Z
https://howtoprofessionallysay.akashrajpurohit.com/
How to professionally say
A guide for your daily "professional" interactions
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18:22
xd
18:27
https://developers.redhat.com/articles/2022/04/25/new-c-features-gcc-12#c__23_features
New C++ features in GCC 12 | Red Hat Developer
Version 12 of GCC implements much of the recent C++ standard, allows a number of previously prohibited constructs, and fixes some problematic behaviors.
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Ryozuki
https://developers.redhat.com/articles/2022/04/25/new-c-features-gcc-12#c__23_features
Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 18:30:08Z
LMAO
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Ryozuki 2022-05-01 18:30:22Z
WHAT?
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Jupstar ✪
i bet in c++20 u can do like auto(3) xd
Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 18:30:36Z
this
18:30
litteraly mentioned in the article
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Ryozuki 2022-05-01 18:30:51Z
Image attachment
18:30
lol
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 18:31:29Z
tho my context was templates
18:31
but bet that works too xd
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Ryozuki 2022-05-01 18:31:36Z
c++ adding rust syntax XDD
18:31
if consteval { }
18:31
(rust doesnt have () on ifs)
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 18:32:11Z
ah but this is special case
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Ryozuki 2022-05-01 18:32:15Z
ye
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 18:32:19Z
but yeah 😄
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Ryozuki 2022-05-01 18:32:21Z
its a good feature
18:32
c++ is actually quite advanced in const eval stuff
18:32
rust needs to catch up
18:33
Image attachment
18:33
lol u can now do this
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 18:33:54Z
but i'd assume a lot of cases are handled by higher optimization flags anyway arent they
18:34
tho function calls cannot be removed maybe
18:34
but ofast and lto doesnt care xd
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Ryozuki 2022-05-01 18:34:47Z
https://doc.rust-lang.org/reference/const_eval.html
Constant Evaluation - The Rust Reference
18:36
when enable c++23
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 18:36:50Z
xd
18:36
deen even upgraded to debian 10
18:37
thats already against the plan xD
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Ryozuki
Click to see attachment 🖼️
Nagi01 {LAN} 2022-05-01 18:40:25Z
lel interesting 😄
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Ryozuki 2022-05-01 18:40:42Z
xd
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Nagi01 {LAN} 2022-05-01 18:40:57Z
is there a palce where i can find every divisors for the teeworlds assets ?
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 18:41:15Z
content.py or smth (edited)
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Chairn 2022-05-01 18:41:52Z
woohoo, multidimensional [] !!
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 18:42:57Z
yes
18:43
kinda cool
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Jupstar ✪
content.py or smth (edited)
Nagi01 {LAN} 2022-05-01 18:44:06Z
ty, i check
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Ryozuki 2022-05-01 18:45:16Z
le this be reminded https://cor3ntin.github.io/posts/abi/
18:46
google kept supporting clang till the ABI breaking vote failed (aka we dont break the abi)
18:47
Image attachment
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 18:47:10Z
google still uses it for android tho
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Ryozuki 2022-05-01 18:47:40Z
dont they use https://abseil.io/
abseil / abseil.io
An open-source collection of core C++ library code
18:47
instead of the stdlib
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Jupstar ✪ 2022-05-01 18:48:03Z
internally?
18:48
maybe i dunno
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Ryozuki 2022-05-01 19:10:27Z
https://github.com/openmainframeproject/cobol-programming-course
GitHub - openmainframeproject/cobol-programming-course: Training ma...
Training materials and labs for a "Getting Started" level course on COBOL - GitHub - openmainframeproject/cobol-programming-course: Training materials and labs for a "Get...
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19:10
im gonna learn this and work in a boring bank
19:10
with good pay maybe
19:10
monkalaugh
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Chairn 2022-05-01 19:43:02Z
at the expense of your mental health monkalaugh
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Chairn
at the expense of your mental health monkalaugh
Ryozuki 2022-05-01 19:44:27Z
ill have rust therapy sessions at home while at it
19:44
greenthing
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Chairn 2022-05-01 19:45:27Z
or maybe you'll turn into a secessionist terrorrist
19:45
holding back all wiring to spanish people and sending them to catalonia
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Ryozuki 2022-05-01 19:45:46Z
monkaS
19:45
good idea
19:46
they already steal us
19:46
so i would be robin hood
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Chairn 2022-05-01 19:46:13Z
don't forget to get 1 cent off everytime 😄
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Ryozuki 2022-05-01 19:46:17Z
i would only take what was ours
19:46
BASED
19:47
i hope the rust job i applied goes through, the guy told me they always answer (whether u get chosen or not)
19:47
i have yet to get a reply
19:48
monkaS
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Chairn 2022-05-01 19:48:29Z
like when you create a class (dont know cobol), overload operator + and minus like that: c++ decimal operator+(const decimal& lhs, const decimal& rhs) { decimal res(lhs.i+rhs.i-0.01); myaccount.wire(0.01); return res; }
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Ryozuki
i hope the rust job i applied goes through, the guy told me they always answer (whether u get chosen or not)
Chairn 2022-05-01 19:48:54Z
that sounds like a physicist joke
19:49
i always reply, just in a non finite time
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Ryozuki 2022-05-01 19:49:24Z
xd
19:49
nah but he said it seriously, when we finished the interview
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Chairn
like when you create a class (dont know cobol), overload operator + and minus like that: c++ decimal operator+(const decimal& lhs, const decimal& rhs) { decimal res(lhs.i+rhs.i-0.01); myaccount.wire(0.01); return res; }
Ryozuki 2022-05-01 19:50:22Z
cobol is like screaming always
19:50
functions dont have arguments
19:50
rather they modify outside variables
19:50
xd
19:50
i have yet to start learning it tho
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Chairn 2022-05-01 19:50:57Z
tr 'a-z' 'A-Z' there you go
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Ryozuki 2022-05-01 19:52:17Z
Image attachment
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Chairn 2022-05-01 19:52:43Z
i like this wikipedia page with SCREAMING_SNAKE_CASE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_case
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Ryozuki 2022-05-01 19:53:06Z
Add the following to your awareness of COBOL. It is an absolute myth that you must be at least 50 years old to be good with COBOL. COBOL is incredibly easy to learn and understand. One of the many reasons financial institutions like COBOL is the fact that it is not necessary to be a programmer to read and understand the logic. This is important because critical business logic code is subject to audit. Auditors are not programmers. However, auditors are responsible for ensuring the business financial statements are presented fairly. It is COBOL processing that frequently results in the business ledger updates and subsequent financial statements.
19:53
interesting
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Chairn 2022-05-01 19:53:42Z
so it's more like descriptive language
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Ryozuki 2022-05-01 19:53:46Z
the "guetting started pdf" is 158 pages long
19:53
and looks well done
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Chairn 2022-05-01 19:53:54Z
kinda like original TeX
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Ryozuki 2022-05-01 19:53:56Z
time to truly learn cobol
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Ryozuki 2022-05-01 21:14:09Z
Image attachment
21:14
i++++
21:14
--i++++
21:15
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plsplsplslol 2022-05-01 21:17:18Z
i-=-i
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GitHub BOT 2022-05-01 21:26:10Z
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[ddnet-scripts:master] 1 new commit
03f2767 Update script: no more mysql libs from other repo - def-
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[ddnet-web:master] 1 new commit
8d683ed Add USA2 - def-
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[ddnet-web:master] 1 new commit
446932f Add USA2 - def-
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Ryozuki
Click to see attachment 🖼️
Chairn 2022-05-01 21:46:29Z
lol, does that legit compile? (edited)
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Ryozuki 2022-05-01 21:46:52Z
i havent tried
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Chairn
lol, does that legit compile? (edited)
heinrich5991 2022-05-01 22:13:59Z
no, doesn't seem to work: error: lvalue required as increment operand
22:14
(++i)++ works, though
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GitHub BOT 2022-05-01 22:26:04Z
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[ddnet-web:master] 1 new commit
78d6966 Add Australia (will run tomorrow) - def-
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