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DDraceNetwork
Development / developer
Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.tw/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories — IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet
Between 2022-03-03 00:00:00Z and 2022-03-04 00:00:00Z
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63d45f5 Add Persian server and mods - def-
justatest 2
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463bcb8 Update frontpage video - def-
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raiders alt acc
Hey @r2d2!~, have you and DDNet Staff talked about getting ur mapping tool into the DDNet Client? And is there a full release planned?
the tool is written in C# and for Windows (even tho i dunno if it couldn't be used in other OS), so it is unlikely that it will be added
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+ what's the point if ddnet includes a map editor also
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Jupstar ✪
the tool is written in C# and for Windows (even tho i dunno if it couldn't be used in other OS), so it is unlikely that it will be added
Mono can maybe run it
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but it also uses d3d11
08:17
also the license dont match, but still very impressive editor
08:17
our editor is pretty bad xD
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Jupstar ✪
our editor is pretty bad xD
Have you taken a look at editor2 on 0.7? I quite like it. I wonder if we should try to get it into ddnet
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yeah it defs an improvement, but this editor from r2d2 still looks better imo
08:19
it's missing some features, but just looks cleaner
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Learath2
Have you taken a look at editor2 on 0.7? I quite like it. I wonder if we should try to get it into ddnet
If you did end up getting a new editor into ddnet, would that completely override the current editor, or would that be an optional thing where you can switch between new and old? The intuitive answer is that it'd override it, but I feel like my people wouldn't like that since people got very used to the current editor over the years, and humans don't tend to like change. By the way I haven't seen editor2, so i don't even know if it's really similar to the current one, I'm just genuinely interested how this would be done
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its relativly similar
08:26
just new ideas, that are intuitive, and some style changes
👍 1
thumb2 1
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And most importantly code that is much better structured imo
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@bencie
08:29
this is for example a nice feature
08:29
select tiles to mirror them
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Learath2
Have you taken a look at editor2 on 0.7? I quite like it. I wonder if we should try to get it into ddnet
also get the new tee customizer
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Ah yeah, looks pretty clean!
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The UI is supposed to get a teeworlds makeover btw. It's just easier to prototype like this
08:30
But I quite like this design so if we add it to ddnet maybe we keep this?
08:31
The old roundy design of tw is imo a bit outdated anyway :F
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the rounds have to get abit sharper and more consistant (edited)
08:31
to fit the todays popular design language
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Not gonna lie when i tried out the teeditor, i felt very lost and you'd of course need to use it for a while to get used to it. But i feel like not every would bother to learn a differently structured editor if it did override the current one (I'm mostly referring to teeditor here, not editor2 since judging by your screenshot it's extremely close to what we currently have, looks really clean).
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i havent used teeeditor, since i dont have a microsoft store, only freedom store 😛 No but seriously. It kinda looks very similar to me to the ddnet's one (from structure). Are the shortcuts / controls so different=
08:34
08:34
i mean this basically is just ddnet editor with a way better interface
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it has a way more effecient and accessible work flow
08:35
this editor should be the one new mappers are going to use
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Iza
the rounds have to get abit sharper and more consistant (edited)
yeah if you zoom into this interface of teeeditor, you see roundings are only sometimes used, and then it always fits (e.g. the active map TAB) teeworlds uses roundings inside of other roundings, and that just looks bad af xD
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Learath2
Mono can maybe run it
its greast to have a 500mb depedency to run ur program
08:39
c# sux
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Cellegen | HU 2022-03-03 08:43:50Z
idc 500mb or more, the future is now nerd (edited)
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in what universe is c# the future xD
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cringe
08:50
i should write the editor in rust using the twmap from patiga but im 2 lazy
08:50
and im making my own os rn
08:50
BASED
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make editor-os
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@Jupstar ✪ a microkernel to run only ddnet
🤣 1
08:51
with maximum perfomance
08:51
imagine it xd
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soon ™️
08:52
imagine not being bound on time
08:52
would be an epic project xD
08:53
egui: an easy-to-use immediate mode GUI in Rust that runs on both web and native - GitHub - emilk/egui: egui: an easy-to-use immediate mode GUI in Rust that runs on both web and native
08:53
dope
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learath knows that electron is the future xd
08:55
hi I wrote a small calculator download size 2GB RAM usage 8GB
08:56
@Ryozuki how big is Ryo-OS? under 1MB? XD
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Jupstar ✪
hi I wrote a small calculator download size 2GB RAM usage 8GB
pepeW
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chillerdragon BOT 2022-03-03 08:59:14Z
Eee im confused send c++ brain
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We are so on the wrong timeline
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@Jupstar ✪ the image is 103k with the bootloader
08:59
48k without
08:59
or something like that
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nice
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30k stripped
09:00
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chillerdragon BOT 2022-03-03 09:00:15Z
((CGameControllerMymod *)pSelf->GameServer()->m_pController)->myfunc();I created a gamecontroller with some custom function and then from gamecontroller.cpp i call this boi and even tho i never created an instance of CGameControllerMymod since my sv_gametype is dm myfunc() is still run?!
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depends is it virtual function?
09:00
then probs not
09:00
else it might be run, but UB
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chillerdragon BOT 2022-03-03 09:01:00Z
no
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just dont do this xD
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chillerdragon BOT 2022-03-03 09:01:08Z
fakin UB
09:01
yea i guess
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@Jupstar ✪ i even have a testing setup
09:01
the guide is rly good
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Ryozuki
PepeA
boot time is also smth i don't like in modern OS, but no idea what exactly causes them to be so slow 😄
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(tests using qemu)
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bro i also want to start, sounds really funny xxd
09:02
09:02
i can catch stack overflows
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chillerdragon BOT 2022-03-03 09:02:15Z
creating os such a hype these days
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bcs there is still big potential in OS
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chillerdragon
creating os such a hype these days
its because u can learn a lot
09:02
about how ur kernel works
09:02
its actually rly interesting
09:03
i learnt about interrupts
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Jupstar ✪
boot time is also smth i don't like in modern OS, but no idea what exactly causes them to be so slow 😄
Hm, they are pretty fast tho, windows boots quite quickly from an ssd
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@Jupstar ✪ my boot time is long due to me having to type the password to decrypt
09:03
monkalaugh
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i mean like, why is it not basically isntant
09:03
from cold boot
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mine kinda is
09:04
i dont have a gui login so
09:04
its even faster
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i dunno i see a wall of text for like 2 seconds before it switches to GUI
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Well I guess you could boot to a less than operational state much quicker if you wanted. It's just that some services take time, hw takes time to initialize
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❯ systemd-analyze Startup finished in 11.021s (firmware) + 2.739s (loader) + 11.370s (kernel) + 3.266s (userspace) = 28.397s graphical.target reached after 3.266s in userspace
09:05
hm
09:05
i reached graphical after 3s
09:05
i guess thats what counts x d
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Learath2
Well I guess you could boot to a less than operational state much quicker if you wanted. It's just that some services take time, hw takes time to initialize
ok but why does it take so long tho? we litteraly have the speed of light on our side + why doesn't it happen async
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With parallelized service starts, an uncompressed initramfs, non encrypted fs, I can boot into single user within about 10s
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@Jupstar ✪ its probs limited by the disk
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chillerdragon BOT 2022-03-03 09:06:35Z
#include "stdio.h" class IGameController { }; class CDefaultGameController : public IGameController { }; class CCustomGameController : public IGameController { public: void custom() { puts("foo"); } }; int main() { IGameController *pController = new CDefaultGameController(); ((CCustomGameController *)pController)->custom(); return 0; }it prints "foo" just fine? :D no warnings nothing xd
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i dunno, but if i'd write an OS, i'd pack all drivers and firmware and stuff into one block of disk space and load it at once( or in chunks ) but not like 1k files on its own and then spam all threads i have to initialize all hardware as soon as possible xd
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Jupstar ✪
ok but why does it take so long tho? we litteraly have the speed of light on our side + why doesn't it happen async
I think for windows it's that they want to boot up into a mostly operational state. So graphics needs to be initialized, core services already started
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@Learath2 ads services too
09:08
monkalaugh
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i just wonder where the bottleneck really is @Learath2 I mean the SSD i have can read like 4GB/s all other components should be faster
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tracking services...up gogogo!
09:08
fuckyousnail
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yeah for windows its ok, they need the time to upload the telemetry xd
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Jupstar ✪
i just wonder where the bottleneck really is @Learath2 I mean the SSD i have can read like 4GB/s all other components should be faster
Well first of all that 4GB/s is probably a particular kind of reading, possibly a large block with optimal block size
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i accept that xd
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Learath2
Well first of all that 4GB/s is probably a particular kind of reading, possibly a large block with optimal block size
yeah but i that's what i'd care about on my OS
09:10
e.g. lets say you update your system: I'd say it's ok that this takes 5 seconds longer to make a nice chunk for the boot sequence, instead of increasing the boot sequence 😄
09:10
i dunno, i cannot really imagine it cannot be improved by a lot
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chillerdragon BOT 2022-03-03 09:10:47Z
g++ is less strict that clang huh?
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/dev/nvme0n1: Timing cached reads: 52912 MB in 2.00 seconds = 26518.07 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 4862 MB in 3.00 seconds = 1620.41 MB/sec
09:10
greenthing
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chillerdragon BOT 2022-03-03 09:11:02Z
$ g++ cast.cpp $ clang cast.cpp /usr/bin/ld: /tmp/cast-2d52b0.o: in function `main': cast.cpp:(.text+0x15): undefined reference to `operator new(unsigned long)' clang-13: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see invocation)
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Jupstar ✪
e.g. lets say you update your system: I'd say it's ok that this takes 5 seconds longer to make a nice chunk for the boot sequence, instead of increasing the boot sequence 😄
You could, but then it's ugly 😄 You'd have to create a bootchunk from the fs that is humanfriendly
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chillerdragon BOT 2022-03-03 09:11:46Z
Ah no its clang++
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performance is all that matters, the rest has to be handled by user friendly tools
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Then you need to keep that up to date, and it's not really modular so you break something you might have some problems
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chillerdragon BOT 2022-03-03 09:12:06Z
wait both and g++ and clang++ do not complain @Jupstar ✪ u sure its UB ? i mean it looks like but it works -.-
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yes
09:12
run it with ubsan
09:12
and it will hate u
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chillerdragon BOT 2022-03-03 09:12:30Z
xd
09:12
oke
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Jupstar ✪
performance is all that matters, the rest has to be handled by user friendly tools
I prefer my OS to be serviceable by the simplest of tools. User friendly blob managers need not apply
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external tools can still give you all user friendlyness you need
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Regedit on windows vs vim to edit my /etc/grub.cfg, I'll take vim all day
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then vim needs an auto extension
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regedit aPES2_VomitAttack
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that can e.g. read binary files
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Jupstar ✪
external tools can still give you all user friendlyness you need
What happens when the user friendly tool has a bug? How am I supposed to work with this blob of binary data?
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auto converts it to text
09:14
well then update the tool xD
09:14
if vim is buggy you doomed too
09:14
that's not really an excuse imo
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The bug broke my boot sequence because your bootblob broke, what am I supposed to do now?
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vim broke your config file, what are you supposed to do now?
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chillerdragon BOT 2022-03-03 09:15:02Z
$ clang++ -fsanitize=address,undefined -fsanitize-recover=address,undefined -fno-omit-frame-pointer cast.cpp $ ./cast foo $ UBSAN_OPTIONS=log_path=./SAN:print_stacktrace=1:halt_on_errors=0 ASAN_OPTIONS=log_path=./SAN:print_stacktrace=1:check_initialization_order=1:detect_leaks=1:halt_on_errors=0 ./cast foolike this?
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use vi
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i just mean, sure you can always argument with bugs
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chillerdragon BOT 2022-03-03 09:15:18Z
use echo
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I use any of the billion text editors that aren't currently broken
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but everything can be buggy
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chillerdragon BOT 2022-03-03 09:15:28Z
mv ~/.vimrc vimrc
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then write 1 billion tools xD
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I can boot into any single live cd and it'll have the tool to fix my system
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yes, the tool can be updated on your live CD
09:15
good point xd
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I can fix it from the uefi console even, text files are that simple to use
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chillerdragon BOT 2022-03-03 09:16:07Z
@Jupstar ✪: ubsan no cry
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then your function is not from that class
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chillerdragon BOT 2022-03-03 09:16:26Z
?xd
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or your function does not call any member from that class
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chillerdragon BOT 2022-03-03 09:16:42Z
but still
09:16
isnt it calling an instance method without object?
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i'd say it should complain
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chillerdragon BOT 2022-03-03 09:17:04Z
so do i
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e.g. dynamic_cast should throw
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Jupstar ✪
yes, the tool can be updated on your live CD
no they can't be, it's a cd-r
09:18
and sorry no internet
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i mean you can update your live CD, have different version of the tool
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don't have a cd burner anymore
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xD
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@Learath2 live cd is just a general term
09:18
u can use it on usb
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well with new OS comes new stuff, but you would have to argument against 1990 Learath then
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No I only have a single cd-r, I don't have a disk burner, I don't have internet. I can still fix a traditional linux system
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not 2020 where 1 billion text editors already exists
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Learath2
No I only have a single cd-r, I don't have a disk burner, I don't have internet. I can still fix a traditional linux system
can u tho
09:19
if its rly broken
09:19
u usually need a live cd
09:19
cuz u cant fix while mounted
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Ofc, go ahead make a mistake in your grub cfg, you can still boot using the grub console
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monkalaugh grub console
09:19
but what if my grub is broken
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As long as you have a kernel on the boot partition you can boot to, you are fine
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and it doesnt even show grub
09:20
having a live cd is the best backup
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My point is a binary blob with shiny tools is annoying to work with
09:21
Because nothing except the shiny tool can be used
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@Jupstar ✪ how often do u even boot ur pc
09:21
i only do it once a day
09:21
xd
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Why is it that every time I start my day discussing anything with any of you here I spend the rest of the day annoyed?
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I'm so moving arguing with electron worshippers to the night so I can just sleep on it
09:23
Fellas is it even an actual computer if it doesn't have 128gb of ram and 2tb of vram?
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@Learath2 move on from electron use https://github.com/lapce/lapce
Lightning-fast and Powerful Code Editor written in Rust - GitHub - lapce/lapce: Lightning-fast and Powerful Code Editor written in Rust
09:24
made 100% with rust
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I personally boot my computer and just move everything onto a ramdisk so it's faster
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Ryozuki
i only do it once a day
my point is, when i write an OS that gives 30% more FPS in CSGO, boots faster, generally is faster more efficient Then this is the future OS
09:24
performance is key xd
09:24
the avarage user doesnt care about system admin problems
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Your obsession with marginal performance improvements beyond human comprehension annoys me so much that I want to move to a midwestern state and become a puritan so I don't have to interact with you anymore
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like i care what you think
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performance is everything, that simple
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@Jupstar ✪ when will u own a quantum computer
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if it improves my FPS, lets start xd
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im sure if there was a gaming oriented os that had 100% compatibility with games everyone would use it
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Most people also want reliability, would you use a computer that boots only 10% of the time but gives you a 10% improvement of performance when it does manage to boot?
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i think you a bit pessimistic
09:27
why would it boot less of the time, just bcs it uses binary instead of text configs
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A lot of people also value fidelity, would you play your games at 720p? It would give you more performance?
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if software would be so buggy then rip xD
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No your arguments is that "Performance is everything". Ofc it's not, that's an insane proposition
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Learath2
A lot of people also value fidelity, would you play your games at 720p? It would give you more performance?
well ofc i mean depending on your needs, if you play battle field raytracing you also want 8k if possible
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Or I'm sending a rover to mars, is performance everything there?
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but to reach 8k raytracing you need more efficient design
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Learath2
Or I'm sending a rover to mars, is performance everything there?
why not
09:29
more performance doesn't imply less reliability
09:29
that's a weird thinking tbh
09:29
i dont say write everything in assembly
09:29
i want to make clear, a better design, can be better
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we should start by ditching x86
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More performance doesn't imply less reliability, but your proposition is that nothing except performance matters
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and designing a modern instruction set
09:30
remove all backwards compatibility stuff thats holds us down
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that's one example, x86 could die if a new generation gives same FPS (on current games); while giving more FPS on newer titles, then ppl would accept it xd (edited)
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Learath2
More performance doesn't imply less reliability, but your proposition is that nothing except performance matters
then let me resphrase it a design that is faster, but doesnt increase complexity in a way that you need to do unsafe operation or switch the coding language, should always be used, bcs it wins in the long run xd
09:32
since my new OS would use a language similar to rust, i'd only allow that rust like lnaguage
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That's not a rephrasing, that's a whole new argument, but sure
kek 1
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So this new design, has 0 drawbacks of ANY form, for ANY use, only performs better, yes, people would prefer it
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glad we came to a understanding
09:34
greenthing
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but that would include that binary config files are OK for me, as long there is a tool that can parse it for example 😄
09:34
so there is a drawback
09:34
vim either needs an extension or cant be used
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There is always a drawback, but since it's not one you care about you can just discard it
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but in 1990 someone also wrote vim to parse a text file
09:35
its nothing to special in my thinking
09:35
in 20 years nobody will care, just as we dont care now xd
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Who cares about the people that administer systems? The average user doesn't care
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yea
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neither the bosses
09:35
until something doesnt work
09:35
have u visited r/sysadmin
09:35
its hilairous
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but the good thing about open source is, that there will be ppl writing better and better tools
09:36
bcs system admins team up
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No everything always works @Ryozuki we already established all drawbacks that jupstar doesn't consider drawbacks aren't drawbacks
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bcs they are pissed xd
09:36
i am just not so pessimistic xD
09:36
sure it takes time to settle
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You just want something for the sake of wanting it. There is no reason to trade human-readability of config files for a marginal improvement in parsing it the 1 time it's read at boot
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well that's your opinion
09:38
i simply disagree
09:38
human readable are non
09:38
only the tools that parses them make it readable
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[quakenet] ChillerDragon BOT 2022-03-03 09:38:32Z
cast.cpp:22:9: error: cannot ‘dynamic_cast’ ‘pController’ (of type ‘class IGameController’) to type ‘class CCustomGameController’ (source type is not polymorphic)
09:38
22 | dynamic_cast<CCustomGameController*>(pController)->custom();
09:38
that sounds reasonable
09:38
or did i cast wrong?
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Jupstar ✪
human readable are non
?
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none*
09:39
a text file itself is not more readable
09:39
you need a graphic unit to make it readable
09:39
vim also reads the file somehow
09:39
not like its just there
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The text file, without any processing beyond decoding is completely human readable
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a binary too, just in a hex editor
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chillerdragon i think u need virtual
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A binary file, especially the kind you'd consider since you want better performance, would not necessarily be human readable at all
09:41
Even in a hex editor
09:41
Numbers would probably all be in little endian
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why tho, binary files are also read somehow so you just need to know about that structure that reads it
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Don't need field names either since the structure is predetermined
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many hex editors even allow making structs to automatically parse it
09:43
but now that you say it, a light compression could make sense too
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Text editors literally perform a single decoding operation. You are telling me hex editors have advanced features
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will add it to my never starting todo list
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Jupstar ✪
but now that you say it, a light compression could make sense too
No, don't be silly. You want everything uncompressed and everything in ram
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bcs text is also saved as binary in the end xD
09:44
so whats the point
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Learath2
No, don't be silly. You want everything uncompressed and everything in ram
yeah, but the SSD might be slower than the uncompressing
09:44
need benchmarks to confirm
09:44
in RAM it can be uncompressed ofc
09:44
i have the 32gb ram
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No, trade boot performance with runtime performance
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ah btw, binary configs need less RAM xd
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Get more ram and at boot put everything in there
09:45
run the whole database in ram
09:45
SAP
09:45
ditch hard disks
09:45
embrace ram
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i dunno the sweatspot at this point, so cannot say what i'd trade
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Jupstar ✪
ah btw, binary configs need less RAM xd
Not necessarily, you can read it in chunks and just shove it inside the struct, so not even at read-time it doesn't necessarily need more ram
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but text is rather large on disk
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Learath2
Not necessarily, you can read it in chunks and just shove it inside the struct, so not even at read-time it doesn't necessarily need more ram
yeah but that defs makes it slower xD
09:46
performance everything, even for that useless tool xDD (jk)
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Not really, buffered readers read at optimal-ish chunk sizes
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anyway, i just want new stuff, new ideas, 1 trillion FPS, instant loading times then i can die in peace
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I want new stuff, 200~ fps, reasonable loading times
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but can you then die in peace? xD
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Ryozuki
run the whole database in ram
I wonder if you can run ram in raid0
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i want unlimited fps
09:49
im sure someday we will reach a point where talking about fps is meaningless
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dont be arrogant
09:49
xd
09:49
i doubt that tbh
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i dont
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if you want smth like sword art online
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Jupstar ✪
but can you then die in peace? xD
No I will never be in peace, neither will you. We'll only get shitty old ideas because of licensing agreements, 60 fps because everything is optimized for console, meh loading times
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it has to be on pair with real world
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if moores law keeps appliying
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Learath2
No I will never be in peace, neither will you. We'll only get shitty old ideas because of licensing agreements, 60 fps because everything is optimized for console, meh loading times
true :c
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Learath2
No I will never be in peace, neither will you. We'll only get shitty old ideas because of licensing agreements, 60 fps because everything is optimized for console, meh loading times
the 60fps lock due to consoles
09:50
is the worst nightmare
09:50
waiting for elden ring mod to unlock fps
09:51
but then u cant enjoy multiplayer
09:51
cuz stupid anticheat
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It's so annoying for high refresh rate monitor people
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Ryozuki
if moores law keeps appliying
the problem is really that we probs about to hit the limit of transitor sizes in the next years
09:52
then we can still optimize the offset between them and other hardware components
09:52
but i guess in like 20 years we need a completly new idea
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@Jupstar ✪ what about making the cpu itself bigger
09:52
US-based startup Cerebras Systems has unveiled the world's largest single silicon-based processor, the Cerebras Wafer Scale Engine. The chip is the world's first trillion-transistor processor comprising 1.2 trillion transistors, 400,000 AI-optimised cores and 18 GB of memory. The chip, made especially to enhance the development work of AI, has 5...
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so you want a planet to simulate a virtual world (a planet) ? 😄
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i bet this happens some day
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if we advance to the next step of civilization
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yeah 😄
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first we need to utilize the whole sun power
09:53
build a dyson sphere
09:53
A Dyson sphere is a hypothetical megastructure that completely encompasses a star and captures a large percentage of its solar power output. The concept is a thought experiment that attempts to explain how a spacefaring civilization would meet its energy requirements once those requirements exceed what can be generated from the home planet's res...
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yeah would be amazing
09:54
i really wonder if we dont get replaced by robots before doing this
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A matrioshka brain is a hypothetical megastructure of immense computational capacity powered by a Dyson sphere. It was proposed in 1997 by Robert J. Bradbury (1956–2011). It is an example of a class-B stellar engine, employing the entire energy output of a star to drive computer systems. This concept derives its name from the nesting Russian ma...
09:54
we need this
09:54
its all thought out
09:54
already
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i mean what is more likely? That we find the secret to inteligence or that we build such huge stuff?
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that we build this
09:54
i doubt we will find anything
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hard to say :d
09:54
maybe we are too arrogant thinking humans are smth special
09:55
and are actually already pretty close
09:55
or we are completly far away
09:55
maybe we cannot even solve it in 3 dimensions
09:55
who knows
09:55
i dont think its about solving it
09:55
its more about logistics
09:55
to build this
09:55
we would need full earth cooperation
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oh i meant intelligence 😄
09:55
but yeah
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maybe we'll not build it in this solar system
09:56
maybe other systems are better for this purpose
09:56
closer big planets to sun or stuff like that
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No need to figure out anything about intelligence
09:57
No need for AI or singularity either. We should just everything to the guy who came up with Electron
09:57
Currently as we speak, discord is using 7 cores of my cpu, to do something. I'm eagerly awaiting it's result
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true, he is the genius of the 21th century
09:57
no computer can ever beat him
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It'll probably tell me the key to FTL travel
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Jupstar ✪
maybe other systems are better for this purpose
we need this to go to other systems
09:58
to become a spacefearing civilization
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faring*
09:58
heinrich v2
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We probably will never make it out of this system
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interesting video
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yeah i watch them all
09:59
only good yt channel xd
09:59
well 3blue1brown and veritasium and vsauce
09:59
the only yt content i consume
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We've already reached the great filter, discovery of nukes is what leads to the death of all civilizations
10:00
Putin will turn all of us into goo
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its the only content where you don't feel like you know its wasted time anyway 😄
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Learath2
We've already reached the great filter, discovery of nukes is what leads to the death of all civilizations
that's actually not that unlikely, needs just one really clever, insane guy
10:00
( i mean building it your own )
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@Jupstar ✪ we might not even exist
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yes
10:01
about it
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you only exist in my head 😄
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Learath is just my conscience, telling me to stop xd
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In the metaphysics of identity, the Ship of Theseus is a thought experiment that raises the question of whether an object that has had all of its components replaced remains fundamentally the same object. The concept is one of the oldest in Western philosophy, having been discussed by Heraclitus and Plato by c. 500–400 BC.
10:01
monkaS
10:04
my philosophy teacher was really a legend
10:05
we always talked about such stuff, in 7th grade already
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rip to the ppl that selected religion instead of philosophy in school (if they had the choice) (edited)
10:08
i liked philosophy too
10:08
but sadly politics plan to remove it
10:08
they dont want critical thinking
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wtf
10:08
arent you like living in spain
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thought spain is actually pretty progressive
10:09
xd
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Jupstar ✪
thought spain is actually pretty progressive
i think there was a right wing party
10:10
when they removed it
10:10
idk
10:10
they actually removed it
10:10
there is a "left" wing party rn
10:11
more like center-right (edited)
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well religions die out in EU countries anyway. i dunno what they hope for
10:12
right now it is optional
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good example is poland, younger ppl more and more dont care about it anymore, even tho generally it has high traditions country-wide
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but they want to remove it
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GO ON THE STREET XD
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Do we keep statistics on how many players on our servers are using the latest DDNet version and how many are using outdated versions or other clients?
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Learath2
No need for AI or singularity either. We should just everything to the guy who came up with Electron
true true CLOWNpepega
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c0d3d3v
Do we keep statistics on how many players on our servers are using the latest DDNet version and how many are using outdated versions or other clients?
not really, but steam says how many ppl are playing: Server browser player count - steam player count = potentially outdated clients the steam players should be all up to date
11:34
maybe teehistorian knows about it, dunno else ask noby
11:34
he probs collects it
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@Jupstar ✪ I am currently coding a map renderer and have trouble with colors. I haven't really found help in the ddnet source, so I mostly just tested what works with a bit of research. If I understand correctly, for example, the vertex colors of the quads need to be converted into the srgb color space, so I take rgb to the power of 2.2 and for the alpha I found that 1. - (1. - alpha)^2.2 does the job. when I sample the color for the quad from the texture, it appears that I only have to convert the alpha, not the rgb values. from experimenting it seemed like I then just need to multiply those colors together, however, that doesn't work yet. before I dive deeper into more experimenting, do you happen to know the magic formulars for the colors? ^^
11:42
I'm programming with webgpu and use vulkan as the backend
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@Jupstar ✪ ddnet client sends a user agent with version iirc to the https master
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Ryozuki
@Jupstar ✪ ddnet client sends a user agent with version iirc to the https master
do we collect it?
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Patiga
@Jupstar ✪ I am currently coding a map renderer and have trouble with colors. I haven't really found help in the ddnet source, so I mostly just tested what works with a bit of research. If I understand correctly, for example, the vertex colors of the quads need to be converted into the srgb color space, so I take rgb to the power of 2.2 and for the alpha I found that 1. - (1. - alpha)^2.2 does the job. when I sample the color for the quad from the texture, it appears that I only have to convert the alpha, not the rgb values. from experimenting it seemed like I then just need to multiply those colors together, however, that doesn't work yet. before I dive deeper into more experimenting, do you happen to know the magic formulars for the colors? ^^
i used UNORM for colors in my vulkan backend
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i think logs also store version
11:43
i remember deen showing stats
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Jupstar ✪
i used UNORM for colors in my vulkan backend
ooh, so depending on the textureformat I choose the color calculations are different?
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ok didnt know ryo
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the tutorial made me use a function that chooses the format automatically, so I didn't really think it should have an effect and assumed its just something that happens in the background
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Patiga
the tutorial made me use a function that chooses the format automatically, so I didn't really think it should have an effect and assumed its just something that happens in the background
yeah SRGB should not be mixed, maybe some GPUs can handle it, but it's probs easier you stick to UNORM. Also there is linear color space vs non linear. I use this for framebuffer FindFormat.format == VK_FORMAT_B8G8R8A8_UNORM && FindFormat.colorSpace == VK_COLOR_SPACE_SRGB_NONLINEAR_KHR and VK_FORMAT_R8G8B8A8_UNORM for the textures
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damn glad I asked you, struggled with that for a few hours. Thanks for the help :)
13:08
actually true
13:08
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c0d3d3v
Do we keep statistics on how many players on our servers are using the latest DDNet version and how many are using outdated versions or other clients?
not really, to my knowledge. I can take snapshots, here's one from GER2 right now: $ echo status > *.fifo $ grep "dnsbl=white" *.log|sed -e "s/.*client=\([^ ]*\) .*/\1/" | sort | uniq -c | sort -n 1 0.7:15050 1 13022 1 14001 1 15032 1 15054 1 15060 1 15070 2 10034 2 15011 2 15012 2 15062 2 15080 3 15040 4 15024 4 15090 5 0.7:-1 5 15013 13 15081 173 15091
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the https could report also the client version
13:13
when it is done
13:13
apart from skin and other stuff
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As requested here, I have assigned static values to the SV_TEAM enum and added a few "useful" comments https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/4737#discussion_r810549223 If these are too much or you want me to adjust something, feel free to comment.

Checklist

  • [x] Tested the change ingame
  • [ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
  • [ ] Tested in combination with possibly related configuration options
  • [ ] Written a unit test if it works standalone, system.c especially
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deen
not really, to my knowledge. I can take snapshots, here's one from GER2 right now: $ echo status > *.fifo $ grep "dnsbl=white" *.log|sed -e "s/.*client=\([^ ]*\) .*/\1/" | sort | uniq -c | sort -n 1 0.7:15050 1 13022 1 14001 1 15032 1 15054 1 15060 1 15070 2 10034 2 15011 2 15012 2 15062 2 15080 3 15040 4 15024 4 15090 5 0.7:-1 5 15013 13 15081 173 15091
Current player versions on all official servers: 1 11080 1 12001 1 12060 1 13002 1 13565 1 14001 1 902 2 0.7:15050 2 10034 2 12091 2 13001 2 13097 2 14071 2 15023 3 12092 3 13022 3 14010 3 15011 3 15025 3 15444 4 15012 5 20000 6 14051 6 15024 6 15032 6 15060 8 15040 10 14032 11 15013 16 15005 23 15062 23 15090 24 15054 51 0.7:-1 58 15070 61 15080 111 15081 3874 15091
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14:41
More 0.7 players than I expected, nice work @Learath2 with the compat layer
14:42
And apparently no one using 0.6 vanilla anymore if my script is correct
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@Jupstar ✪ nice I removed everything srgb related and now explicitly use unorm and everything looks perfect now :)
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nice, is that tool already finished?
14:42
web gpu with vulkan sounds very interesting
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not yet, so far I have map rendering without envelopes and without group clipping, wanna finish that up
14:43
after that I also want to extend it into a full tw/ddnet renderer
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super cool
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ah and I still need to do mipmapping
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demo viewer would be great so you can upload your demos and send people the link
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maybe we can also just build the client with web asm
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thanks! :) its really interesting working with the gpu for once ^^
14:44
yea I hope that will work mostly out-of-the-box with webgpu
14:45
though I'm writing it in rust, so not really compatible with the ddnet source :d
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what will the map renderer be used for?
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map renderer on its own probably not for much, maybe another map viewer for the web
14:49
or maybe to get a picture of the entire map with correct coloring, don't think such a thing exists yet
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ohhh. makes sense
14:51
will it have working Anim values, unlike the default map view in the ddnet website? (edited)
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should hopefully work, haven't yet implemented envelopes though
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do you write it with buffering btw? or just teeworlds 0.6 style? 😄
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haven't really looked into the any teeworlds code and I'm still new to gpu stuff
14:54
wdym with buffering? ^^
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like load the whole map into VRAM
14:55
isntead of sending it to the GPU per frame
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ah I put the tilemaps and the quads into gpu buffers
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deen
More 0.7 players than I expected, nice work @Learath2 with the compat layer
Nice to see it actually used
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nice
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not per-frame, once at the start
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now i am interested how you did it 😄
14:56
like the javascript thing?
14:56
or self invented?
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no idea what that javascript thing is ^^
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ok, so completly self written? nice nice 😄
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Jupstar ✪
@bencie
could you send me a link to this? really wanna try it out now 👀
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bencie
could you send me a link to this? really wanna try it out now 👀
i just compiled the 0.7 editor branch
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@Jupstar ✪ haven't published nor decided on a license yet, but I can send you the current shaders in pm if you like
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bencie
could you send me a link to this? really wanna try it out now 👀
you could just fork 0.7 tw and remove the -Werror flag so github builds it for you 😄
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Patiga
@Jupstar ✪ haven't published nor decided on a license yet, but I can send you the current shaders in pm if you like
i can wait, wont it be a website anyway?
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yeah, I'm consideren agpl though
14:59
*considering
15:00
and I mean it being webgpu means that it can just as well be used in a client
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0.8 client
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@Patiga is it made un rust?
15:04
wgpu?
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Safe and portable GPU abstraction in Rust, implementing WebGPU API. - GitHub - gfx-rs/wgpu: Safe and portable GPU abstraction in Rust, implementing WebGPU API.
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Patiga
and I mean it being webgpu means that it can just as well be used in a client
its a api based on webgpu but it can run natively too btw
15:06
it just abstracts away vulkan/opengl
15:06
its rly nice
15:06
most game engines use it
15:06
(rust ones)
15:06
wgpu is a cross-platform, safe, pure-rust graphics api. It runs natively on Vulkan, Metal, D3D12, D3D11, and OpenGLES; and on top of WebGPU on wasm.
15:07
the next step is building a editor on top of that renderer
15:07
PepeA
15:07
all with AGPL license
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can i make fake ping in my own server?
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all hail stallman
15:08
15:08
damn the bg looks bad on dark
15:08
15:08
BASED
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Salmonιa
can i make fake ping in my own server?
I'm used to playing with a high delay and I'm very unused to playing without it.
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real freedom is having no copyright at all 😛
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@Jupstar ✪ booo
15:08
real freedom are the 4 stallman freedoms
15:09
A program is “free software” if the program’s users have the four essential freedoms:
>
The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose. The freedom to study how the program works, and change it so it does your computing as you wish. Access to the source code is a precondition for this. The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor. The freedom to distribute copies of your modified versions to others. By doing this you can give the whole community a chance to benefit from your changes. Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
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DDNET (roblox voice) ITS FREE!
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cc0 best
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cc0 is free software
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when you dead your copyright freedom doesnt help you
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but it doesnt enforce freedom
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see
15:11
enforce xd
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its paradoxal but required
15:11
you ensure everyone has freedom
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i know why it exists, but i dont see humans in 200 years care about such stuff
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eda6ef8 SV_TEAM enum was labeled - C0D3D3V 300cdf8 Merge #4776 - bors[bot]
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Jupstar ✪
i know why it exists, but i dont see humans in 200 years care about such stuff
humans in 200 years wont probably exist at this rate
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xD
15:12
tru story
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Wohoo
Very nice @c0d3d3v, thank you. There is another variable that needs enum to be self documenting: (GameServer()->m_apPlayers[i]->m_ShowOthers == 2) (edited)
@c0d3d3v @deen should I open an issue about this? Since I cannot actively code it from myself, for some time
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Wohoo
@c0d3d3v @deen should I open an issue about this? Since I cannot actively code it from myself, for some time
xD I can turn it into an enum too 😄 sorry I did not saw your last answer... I have here generally no overview in discord 😄 too many messages, if I'm not directly notified I will potentially not read it. You can also write me directly next time, then I see it.
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deen
Current player versions on all official servers: 1 11080 1 12001 1 12060 1 13002 1 13565 1 14001 1 902 2 0.7:15050 2 10034 2 12091 2 13001 2 13097 2 14071 2 15023 3 12092 3 13022 3 14010 3 15011 3 15025 3 15444 4 15012 5 20000 6 14051 6 15024 6 15032 6 15060 8 15040 10 14032 11 15013 16 15005 23 15062 23 15090 24 15054 51 0.7:-1 58 15070 61 15080 111 15081 3874 15091
what's version 20000? Some people from the future 😄 ?
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raiders alt acc
Hey @r2d2!~, have you and DDNet Staff talked about getting ur mapping tool into the DDNet Client? And is there a full release planned?
Hello @raiders alt acc! So far, I have only asked the DDNet administration to help distribute the editor for testing. A number of people have responded, some of whom have run into some bugs. This is already a good thing. But, it seems to me that this is not enough to get the editor into a workable state. It just doesn't make sense to make maps for vanilla. That's what vanilla is, it's mostly standard maps that get played. Therefore, yes. In the near future, I'll fix the bugs that have already been discovered and start adding DDNet functionality. About the timing I can not say, but I think closer to the end of next month release (presumably with DDNet functionality). Or maybe even earlier 🙂
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The player count is overlapping the heart in some cases, maybe put it to the right? !teeworlds_GRo6fMRGqZ
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Old: New:

Checklist

  • [x] Tested the change ingame
  • [x] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
  • [ ] Tested in combination with possibly related configuration options
  • [ ] Written a unit test if it works standalone, system.c especially
  • [ ] Considered possible null pointers and out of bounds array indexing
  • [ ] Changed no physics that affect existing maps
  • [ ] Tested the change with [ASan+UBSan or valgrind's memcheck](https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/#using-addre...
19:36
weird
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Ryozuki
Click to see attachment 🖼️
there are multiple ways to rename your interface, I use this https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Network_configuration#Change_interface_name
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wooosh
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hi, can someone tell me where the colors are defined for ctf in the code? so the one team is red and the other one blue? sorry, I know it's not a ddnet feature / related. (edited)
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tee colors
21:46
?
21:49
DDraceNetwork, a cooperative racing mod of Teeworlds - ddnet/gameclient.cpp at master · ddnet/ddnet
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chillerdragon BOT 2022-03-03 21:58:24Z
video_4e29ee9.mp4 video_4e29ee9.mp4
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21:58
I just realized some ddnet solo maps are super mobile friendly. Maybe thats a chance for a whole new playerbase :D
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This just improves the readability of the code. Also like my last enum I don't know if src/game/gamecore.h is the best place for the enum, but I think it fits in well. A question about this, maybe one can answer me without much research. It is about the technical part. Why does /showothers only affect dummy or player but cl_show_others affects both.

Checklist

  • [x] Tested the change ingame
  • [ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
  • [ ] Tested in combination wi...
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To what extent are we actually in contact with skins.tw? Have we ever considered to take over the service including costs. So that we can use the database as a standard skin source. Or rather, we have asked whether we can use the database as a standard source without taking over. Was there any talk about whether we want that at all?
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I like that the ddnet database is moderated and doesnt have low quality skins like skins dot tw, i think there were conversations about the quality requirements months/years ago
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Yes, I can understand that. If we would take over the service, our own moderators could do that. At the moment, the submissions are probably also moderated, to what extent their definition of quality matches ours is of course unclear. But if this has already been discussed, I don't want to start all over again. Since skins.tw is not opensource either, I don't have high hopes that they would cooperate. (edited)
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chillerdragon BOT 2022-03-03 23:04:09Z
Wait what?
23:04
Isn’t skins.tw former Teeskins? Did they closed their source?
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Ah I did not knew that but this repo seems to be dead, only your mirror exists
23:19
Teeworlds Assets Database. Teeskins has one repository available. Follow their code on GitHub.
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not in touch with skins.tw, we don't want to host all skins
23:35
and we shouldn't try to absorb every TW related project 😄
23:53
8ddd53a add enum for ShowOthers value - C0D3D3V 7de0651 Merge #4779 - bors[bot]
Exported 561 message(s)