DDraceNetwork - developer

DDraceNetwork

Development / developer

Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.tw/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories — IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet

Between 2021-08-29 00:00:00Z and 2021-08-30 00:00:00Z

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue closed: #4113 DDNet client crashes

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue closed: #3695 Random client crash with projectiles

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #4124 Fix specchar transparency and move spec-char to character snap (fixes #4123, #3816)

Fixes spec-char being rendered with transparency leading in almost invisible spec chars, aswell as moves spec-char to the character snap serverside.

Checklist

[ ] Tested the change ingame
[ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
[ ] Tested in combination with possibly related configuration options
[ ] Written a unit test if it works standalone, system.c especially
[ ] Considered possible null pointers and out of bounds array indexing
[ ] Changed no physics t...

Anime.pdf

@Matodor go make mLife

YES!

@deen can you add my server to DDNet tab? Would be cool, as fng or infclass is there too and my server is getting heavily faked, this would ensure its my server because of the tick symbol.

03:22

I asked this a long time ago already, and I think my server is trustful enough to be there (somehow maybe? xd)

remove the thing that makes lol go into i like turtles

03:44

troll

no u

03:52

xd

03:52

Its an artifact

03:52

from many years ago, from XXLDDRace

03:52

Or, even before that

03:53

Also, whats your problem with turtles?

sus

[ddnet-maps:master] 1 new commit

2a691a7 A Impel Down - ddnet-maps

https://github.com/nigels-com/glew/pull/216 Noice

Extend GLEW API to support glewContextInit - GL without implied GLX...

For Issue #172 Documentation needs updating

07:19

Finally merged

murpi

@Deleted User I've heard you've been working on some kind of system similar to our skin database, but for community skins? (less strict rules)

Nobody wants to write the website part I think. So rip

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue reopened: #4113 DDNet client crashes

oh @Anime.pdf for gctf bridge i just took ddnet and added the 5lines diff that is gctf :D and voila i got a bridged 64p gctf server

monkaS

08:13

Well

08:13

Im dumb

08:13

I was looking for vanilla weapons

08:13

But i firgot that gctf only need grenade

08:13

bluestripe

smort

yea vanilla weapons are way more work. If you want a bridge with vanilla weapons F-DDrace is your best fit but its closed src now sadly .-.what do you need it for btw? @Anime.pdf

for.... gamemode

10:34

with sixup and 64 players

10:34

but vanilla weapons

10:34

i saw @gerdoe's 2xp. Its ddnet but with vanilla weapons

10:34

https://github.com/tw-2xp/2xp

GitHub - tw-2xp/2xp: DDNet-based Teeworlds Panic-like mod.

DDNet-based Teeworlds Panic-like mod. Contribute to tw-2xp/2xp development by creating an account on GitHub.

10:34

looks good

i didn't finish vanilla weapons support

feelsbadman

actually i didn't even start troll

troll

gerdoe

actually i didn't even start troll

troll

justatest

which gamemode im curisous tell me more

gerdoe

i didn't finish vanilla weapons support

i did

yeah :D

11:03

@Anime.pdf lurk in TsFreddie's github profile :p

gerdoe

yeah :D

how about fork my stuff and just make your mod and contribute back any interface

11:03

i need it lol

i did too many refactoring shit in my repo

oof

i don't want to repeat that experience xd

then i guess not

11:04

lol

11:04

sooo

11:04

@Anime.pdf your turn

11:04

xd

TsFreddie

@Anime.pdf your turn

monkalaugh

but ye, i have all vanilla gamemode and weapons finished

11:06

it's probably a pretty good starting point if you want to make pvp mod with sixup/ddnet support

11:07

but the server config is totally different from regular teeworlds, and the weapon system need some getting used to if you are used to modding entities to make weapons.

Worth making a branch with just that tho (vanilla weapons in ddnet)

i probably won't make any sense. you'll have to recode a lot of ddnet features just to get vanilla weapons. since some ddnet features use the same entities (e.g. shotgun bullets)

12:00

it*

12:01

and there will be tons of disagreement on how vanilla weapons should behave in a ddrace setting.

12:02

so it'd be better just to let people fork out and nuke ddrace and make their own.

why it have 2 same lines

Image attachment

It's not the same

isnt it?

12:44

oh well yeah there are + and -

12:44

sry i didnt notice

bruh

13:14

If ground check was broken the whole time that would be hella funny

It sadly is for bigger entities, I need proper collision handling for entities larger than a block or so

entity larger than a block justatest

justatest

get box2D(

TsFreddie

get box2D(

xd

https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/293493549758939136/877382394062209064

I saw that, but i dont think its required just for a bigger entity

13:22

its super cool tho

you are super cool as well

TsFreddie

you are super cool as well

monkalaugh

TsFreddie

you are super cool as well

you are mean :(

monkaS

13:55

i'm sorry

lol

Deleted User

Nobody wants to write the website part I think. So rip

I see, thats unfortunate :/

i use https://skins.tee.world/ for download url

well the annoying part is these creator packs and skin packs, if you dont want to zip them on fly

is it possible

15:54

to make a AI, that find a map if you draw it a map layout

15:55

like when you can't remember a map's name but you do remember how it looked like kek

kek

Anime.pdf

why it have 2 same lines

This is so unreadable though, it's normal that you were confused

man my sleep schedule is messed up even when i have to work. it is annoying.

justatest

1

16:21

also huge moth is gross

justatest

1

16:21

16:21

VOICE REVEAL?? ok I go back to my hibernation

voice reveal

16:24

do you like it

TsFreddie

Click to see attachment 🖼️

im more impressed by that other animal on the window

he's on the outside

16:24

so he's fine

yeah but casually chillin on ur window

i think wall lizard are harmless too

never seen a wall lizard xd

xd

we have some lizards near, but they are fcking shy

feelsamazingman

1

it's pretty common here, and we see it in our home all the time

its american spy

16:26

poor moth btw

16:26

grilled, do you also eat them? xd

but now the buildings are constructed better with better sanitation it's less common to see them at home.

16:26

but they still chilling on the windows tho

i see

Deleted User

grilled, do you also eat them? xd

no

16:27

i didn't even want to pick it up. oof

16:27

i just grabbed a bag and lift the cardboard below and dumped it in

16:28

now it's in the trash

i cant kill animals, not even insects <.<

TsFreddie

do you like it

yes

i also have that electric shit

16:44

best

i kinda miss teeworlds but it's been nice to focus on myself

https://smcameron.github.io/space-nerds-in-space/

16:47

real nerd shit here

16:47

look the video

16:47

thats dedication right there

16:48

One computer runs the central server simulation of the game's universe. Each player's computer acts as a station on a simulated spaceship. There are stations for Navigation, Weapons, Engineering, Communications, Damage Control, and the "Main View", an out-the-window 3d rendering. Multiple starships each with their own team may connect to the server for bridge-vs-bridge combat, or for cooperative play. Additionally, a game master may inject and control various NPC ships into the game to entertain the players, and scenarios may be constructed with a Lua based scripting API.

16:48

xd

16:48

insane

i reorganized my TODO list into issues, then i realize it was hell

16:50

https://github.com/TeeworldsCN/ddnet-pvp/issues

Issues · TeeworldsCN/ddnet-pvp

DDNet based server designed for PvP. Contribute to TeeworldsCN/ddnet-pvp development by creating an account on GitHub.

what tf is ddnet-pvp

16:58

DDNet based server designed for PvP

just a vanilla server

like ddnet with weapons

using ddnet code base

oh thats brilliant

with multiple room support (like /team)

poggers

^ now i think that feature is a huge mistake and make everything more complicated than it needs to be lol

17:00

but you can host dm and ctf in the same server which is neat, but i still haven't got multiple maps working. so you either host it with all ctf5 or make a mega map that can be switched.

17:01

monkaS

@Anime.pdf also the CGameController is actually pretty capable now, so you can code a mod in one class. and please help us if you feel like using it as base code

TsFreddie

monkaS

@Anime.pdf also the CGameController is actually pretty capable now, so you can code a mod in one class. and please help us if you feel like using it as base code

i will merge half of ur mode into mine monkalaugh

monkalaugh

yoink

17:02

the project only support zCatch and instagib on top of vanilla modes as an example

city mod

17:02

monkalaugh

i have fng coded in a private repo so i can tell if the interface is good enough (and it is, at least for fng)

17:04

i don't know exactly what city mod does

17:04

but i would imagine you need to override player's clans and stuff?

sit here, do money

17:04

thats all

TsFreddie

but i would imagine you need to override player's clans and stuff?

yay cserver stuff xd

gerdoe

sit here, do money

if it is just that then it is probably doable with one class

with one variable kek

kek

gerdoe

yay cserver stuff xd

for that i've planned some CPlayer's methods for overriding name/clan and skins, so the CServer will keep the original name/clan unless you want to set it directly of course.

17:06

also there's https://github.com/TeeworldsCN/ddnet-pvp/issues/37 planned if you want to fake a tee/player

[feat] Allow gamecontroller to override character snapshots · Issue...

e.g. in a "among-us" type of gamemode, a player can be teleported into a mini-game area while other players can still see the teleported player in the overworld doing their &q...

17:11

the project needs a better name too lol

nice. I briefly tried something like this starting from vanilla, but I got caught up in too much refactoring

17:31

Take this method for example. The generic implementation could just return false and the specific implementation be in CGameControllerSurvival.

Image attachment

@Ryozuki soo

17:32

what about rusty jam

Robyt3

Take this method for example. The generic implementation could just return false and the specific implementation be in CGameControllerSurvival.

justatest

we just should use ec/ecs justatest

justatest

i didnt do anything xd

Then I had GameControllerSurvival and ~Teamplay and ended up with the diamond inheritance problem ..

Ryozuki

i didnt do anything xd

:pepepopo:

monkalaugh

inojelis tried to show us submissions

17:33

but idk xd

i don't even remember if i've dealt with that

this jam didnt bring something new here

TsFreddie

i don't even remember if i've dealt with that

you still have some IsSurvival and IsTeamplay checks mixed in the gamecontroller, but I think refactoring everything out might be impossible

all devs used bevy (unless one person with his own framework)

well bevy is good

well he couldn't show half of games bcs he uses linux kek

kek

?

17:35

bevy works better on linux

17:35

xd

gerdoe

inojelis tried to show us submissions

this

idk who this guy is

xd

17:36

Image attachment

Robyt3

you still have some IsSurvival and IsTeamplay checks mixed in the gamecontroller, but I think refactoring everything out might be impossible

probably, i think i was going into it with the idea of "everything was how it was" and if you need to redo anything you just override it.

i was in the team whop did this https://itch.io/jam/rusty-jam/rate/1175554

Rate Murder-User Dungeon by Sheepyhead, cdsupina, NightlySide for R...

Made for Rusty Jam 2021! Available for Windows, Linux

17:36

but i didnt do anything

17:36

i was kinda busy and lost motivation xd

lul

btw he probs couldnt play it cuz he has a old kernel

17:37

if u compile on a newer kernel

17:37

sometimes old kernels cant play it

17:37

or smth like that

no mud works perfectly on his machine

17:37

another not xd

xd

I hope we can get vanilla source code going into that direction, so modders don't have to modify vanilla files, making future merges harder

@Robyt3 did u convince oy?

17:38

oy is anti modders

era of lua-bindings justatest

justatest

noo lua pls

17:38

just organized c++

17:38

i rly hate lua scripting for games

Ryozuki

oy is anti modders

anti? I thought it's more like "we don't care about mods"

17:39

but that's not exactly supportive either

he hates ddnet

17:39

xd

17:39

he says it killed teeworlds

17:39

xd

oof

he is right in this point

well we kinda did

not at all

17:39

lot of ppl discovered this game thanks to ddnet

17:40

its just that pvp fun ends pretty quickly

17:40

no replay value

ddnet killed 0.6 vanilla :pepepopo:

what killed vanilla is decades of same players playing

17:40

and noobs not being able to compete

17:40

u cant have fun

17:40

but for me, it justy gets boring real fast

17:40

fng is the only fun pvp for me

capgame pushes good dose of adrenaline in your organism

17:41

dm 1o1 is boring yeah

play teesmash monkalaugh

monkalaugh

but ctf games

well i just really want a server that is easier to work with and just works for both vanilla and ddnet.

2

^

then there might be a mod bloom again for all.

17:41

that's a huge might tho

justatest

1

i wonder

17:42

the people doing this rework are the ones that will prob mod something of quality

17:42

ur wasting ur time on making it mod friendly

17:42

instead of making a mod urself

gerdoe

era of lua-bindings justatest

justatest

also since i'm coding almost everything a call in gamecontroller lua binding is probably gonna be trivial for ddnet-pvp

if it's generic and modfriendly like "ddnet-pvp" then it would be useful for making your own mods in any case

feelsbadman

kog-lvl based on ddnet-pvp

https://mun-lang.org/

Mun, a programming language empowering creation through iteration.

17:43

the future

17:43

of scripting languages

but I'm too uncreative to create my own mods feelsbadman

feelsbadman

Ryozuki

instead of making a mod urself

well the goal is to replace every mod we host in twcn with this

robyt3 try to do something with necro's code xd

so modding is gonna start really soon

maybe you'll have some ideas while discovering it

the necro guy who was making an external editor?

i think infclass actually

17:45

iirc

17:45

oh ye, map merger for envelope hacks. adding that to my TODO list lol

fng boring after a while too

17:56

same map 24/7

justatest

infclass best pvp

i'm glad chn players don't complain about map change in fng tbh

how can i fucking fix the /16 players max in the server list?

Image attachment

use ddnet's server info

how would we know how to fix the leaked source code of a closed source mod?

kek

oof

17:58

didn't know

Learath2

how would we know how to fix the leaked source code of a closed source mod?

its not the real "blockworlds" code, and btw the mod is based on ddnet

very old ddnet by the looks of it

louis

infclass best pvp

if only someone is still maintaining that with bugfixes and more classes(?)

Learath2

very old ddnet by the looks of it

this server still use bam so yes

there are some chinese modders on the rise who just tweaked some tuning values and change a weapon spread and call it a new mods. which is kinda underwhelming.

https://github.com/ultralight-ux/Ultralight rewrite our UX with html

GitHub - ultralight-ux/Ultralight: Next-generation HTML renderer fo...

Next-generation HTML renderer for apps and games. Contribute to ultralight-ux/Ultralight development by creating an account on GitHub.

18:01

monkalaugh

18:02

its not even open source xd

but they are getting all the attentions in chn communities as the master modder guys. so i guess they are doing something for the "players" at least.

lol

18:02

master coder hacking the matrix

18:02

call the gov this guy is dangerous

meanwhile we are just struggling coming out with new ideas. and they are like "haha 6 spread grenades go brrrrr" and apparently that was enough to get some of the players entertained for a while

18:04

kek

have they tried teesmash? monkalaugh

monkalaugh

18:04

u could host it, its fun monkalaugh

monkalaugh

but it is annoying when someone see a modded gores server and just spammed my dm to "report a cheater"

18:04

kek

Ryozuki

have they tried teesmash? monkalaugh

monkalaugh

we did, but they probably haven't

feelsbadman

but we don't need to do anything

feelsbadman

Image attachment

one of the master hacker guy hosted every mods he can find in chn (edited)

18:06

they will get to it eventually

send him this https://github.com/timazuki/TeeSmash

i believed he already hosted one

18:08

but i cant find it anymore

18:08

weird

Image attachment

but he did get kicked for distributing bot clients. maybe he rqed

think_bot

i swear there were like 20 servers with his prefix which just so happens to look like ours.

18:10

Image attachment

18:10

now there are only two it seems

teeworlds.cn (edited)

18:11

justatest

teeworlds.tw

Deleted User

teeworlds.tw

monkalaugh

now i'm just asking for ddos ain't i

18:12

justatest

18:13

i should setup cdn for the whole site actually

18:13

since it is entirely made of SPA, so it is static

18:17

btw does anyone want this domain: teel.ink

18:17

got it for free, and i have no use for it

url shortener

is there a open source one that i can just setup and use?

@Ryozuki has one i think

its not that short but it is short enough i guess

18:19

my personal domain is one character shorter.

https://github.com/YOURLS/YOURLS

GitHub - YOURLS/YOURLS:

Your Own URL Shortener

Your Own URL Shortener. Contribute to YOURLS/YOURLS development by creating an account on GitHub.

https://github.com/edg-l/shorust

GitHub - edg-l/shorust: A simple url shortener server made in rust.

A simple url shortener server made in rust. Contribute to edg-l/shorust development by creating an account on GitHub.

lol thats a good name

in rust

18:21

xdd

rust is cool

and by ryozuki, so you have direct support

also i love that teeworlds devs have made basically every service in existence.

18:23

does sqlite means everything is in memory?

18:23

justatest

no but it has a simple database

18:23

e.g. no mysql server required

how does sqlite works

it's just one file

Ryozuki

the necro guy who was making an external editor?

he actually did moddable map format

but you can also load the database into memory

i know. but how does it read it

fread

18:25

xd

sqlite uses a B-tree to store the data on disk

justatest

1

so it can seek the an entry out of the entire database file?

https://www.sqlite.org/arch.html

every file based db i've used for node (that aren't sqlite) just load everything in memory

18:26

justatest

it also puts some "Page cache" on top of the B-trees

18:27

so it works block-based

i see. that's cool

18:28

i've never looked up how sqlite works.

TsFreddie

also i love that teeworlds devs have made basically every service in existence.

monkalaugh

18:31

@TsFreddie https://noby.world/

Url shortener | Shorust

A url shortener made with rustlang.

18:31

a liv eexample

18:31

of shorust

18:31

in use

more than 200 usages of "goto" in some sqlite-files justatest

justatest

justatest

1

Ryozuki

@TsFreddie https://noby.world/

then i guess teel.ink is better than that one

if u give the domain i can host it

Robyt3

more than 200 usages of "goto" in some sqlite-files justatest

justatest

oh one of the few, that use goto

i dmed u ip

my teachers never allowed it, when we wrote qbasic xD

cuz ddosers look here

i can probably host it but sure why not free myself from the burden

18:33

kek

18:34

setting it up rn

there is even a comment explaining that this code is explicitly unstructured and that usage of goto results in 1.5% performance increase greenthing

greenthing

xd

uff, i wonder if thats really the case

18:35

over higher performance flags

iirc @Learath2 is pro goto at well

according to "valgrind --tool=cachegrind"

*optimization

18:35

ok, when they that tryhard that it might be right xD

Here o/

1

hi

18:38

they still use formating strings(sqlite3_snprintf) where is the 0.001% perf increase by not using it xd

I like how sqlite doesn't compromise to the pleas of the modern era

18:40

"Use just 5 extra kb of memory lol", "It's just a .1% performance increase"

18:40

Say no to this propaganda by the business people that want their deadlines met

18:41

I also love how the factorio people operate, the optimizations they come up with that don't even matter on modern hardware are astonishing

modern hardware best tho

18:42

at some point they always come back to performance

18:42

opengl -> vulkan

I think someone shared this here https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-333, just look at this beauty

what

18:44

why

18:45

they should port it to snes

18:45

justatest

modern hardware has largely made quality software engineering like this obsolete

If there is any team working on a modern team that could code for the snes it's probably this lot

18:46

s/modern team/modern game/

18:47

I did some gameboy assembly for a while, it's a whole lot of problem solving getting things to fit in there

https://twitter.com/reduzio/status/1431304207139737604?s=19

Juan Linietsky (@reduzio)

I mentioned it before, but the core of Godot before 4 is that of an ancient engine designed for systems with a couple megabytes of ram and a single core. Huge amounts of the codebase were rewritten (and will continue to be rewritten during 4.x lifetime) to modernize it..

Likes

277

I mostly wrote patches for games though, so even more cramped

also sega remade sonic colors ultimate in godot is kinda insane

Hm, they are targetting modern platforms, I think godot is a very rational choice here, not as rigid as other engines

18:52

I bet it'd be more expensive to get someone to port the original engine, whatever that was

but sega already has a hedgehog engine that already runs on modern platforms with GIs and stuff.

a new service is born

18:53

https://teel.ink/

Url shortener | Shorust

A url shortener made with rustlang.

aConfetti

1

ZhongliConfetti_Wilock

1

nice

Hm, if they do indeed have their own their choice of godot becomes more interesting

https://teel.ink/YlMss0

ye i think they had their own hedgehog engine since sonic unleashed

18:55

maybe the remake is offloaded to a third party company that has godot experience.

18:55

TsFreddie

ye i think they had their own hedgehog engine since sonic unleashed

Maybe they wanted a more direct port and the assets of the original proved incompatible with the more modern engine?

Ryozuki

https://teel.ink/YlMss0

https://teel.ink/V1PllM justatest

justatest

I hope someone from sega does tell us why

oh shit i should delete the old db

idk. how imcompatible would it be for them to just remake every assets for godot tho.

ah no

18:57

it should work

https://teel.ink/SnEN6G

gerdoe

https://teel.ink/V1PllM justatest

justatest

abuse this generator to get /twitter

xd

xd

its too clever

i could provide a small invite only mail service if someone had a cool teeish domain too

18:58

xd

18:59

cuz discord reads redirects

18:59

u have to use <>

or remove the overview

18:59

preview

https://teel.ink/SwTU8u

TsFreddie

idk. how imcompatible would it be for them to just remake every assets for godot tho.

I assume it's much easier to get godot to load the original assets

they just read them in blender and then ez xd

Ryozuki

https://teel.ink/SwTU8u

scam links go brrr

19:01

https://teel.ink/8knZzV

@deen can we just release a mini version without whats left in the milestone and shift them, or no time?

what cool stuff did you made into ddnet this time

i am just annoyed by win7 users who have problems with their tilemaps xD

19:07

i made the fallback a bit safer

ic

but we also have some new fancy features xd

troll

1

19:08

colored consoles xD

can you port 0.7's text edit? k thx.

can you port ddnet text render

19:08

k thx

justatest

happy

i lost

Embedded image

ew

19:09

windows

by blade

19:09

blood*

19:09

bloodwod

did u add colors

19:10

on linux

19:10

we got

19:10

true color

if only i made the text thing 7 years ago

masterrace

Embedded image

19:10

yes

instead of virgin ansi

true color best

19:10

the cyan is my default

19:10

so ignore that

does it work well

19:10

on

19:10

non color

19:10

tty

it works on kterminal and xterm and stuff

19:10

the linux default only has 256bit

19:10

colors*

19:10

xd

Is ddnets textrenderer better than vanillas anyway? I thought we just had some extra caching stuff using the fact that we have gl3.3

yes cuz jupstar made it greenthing

greenthing

well there are differences

and if only i know text input in sdl2 isn't that complicated in 2013

text input is defs better on vanilla xD

we still gotta add this

19:11

https://harfbuzz.github.io/

HarfBuzz Manual: HarfBuzz Manual

HarfBuzz HarfBuzz is a text shaping library. Using the HarfBuzz library allows programs to convert a sequence of Unicode input into properly formatted and positioned glyph output—for any writing system and language. The canonical source-code tree is available at github.com/harfbuzz/harfbuzz. See for release tarballs.

but the ime calls are also annoying, on android the always open the keyboard xD

The damn TEXTEDITING stuff

what text input

Ryozuki

https://harfbuzz.github.io/

how does that even integrate btw, is that a math library?

19:12

or does it also implement gpu rendering?

@Deleted User https://harfbuzz.github.io/why-do-i-need-a-shaping-engine.html

I spent HOURS, HOURS of excruciating debugging, deep into appkit and xlib

@Deleted User

Image attachment

19:12

TLDR

TsFreddie

what text input

the ime stuff

It is absolutely impossible to get it all right without redoing major parts of the teeworlds input code

Ryozuki

@Deleted User

dude, they should just learn english

XD

19:13

yes

vanilla's ime support is pretty good already (for windows)

I do have a plan to do it correctly, but haven't had the time to try it out yet

oh wait they haven't merged it

Other languages involve marks and accents that need to be rendered in specific positions relative a base character. For instance, the Moldovan language includes the Cyrillic letter "zhe" (ж) with a breve accent, like so: "ӂ".

19:14

Some fonts will provide this character as a single zhe-with-breve glyph, but other fonts will not and, instead, will expect the rendering engine to form the character by superimposing the separate "ж" and "˘" glyphs.

its funny how english is somehow also ez for computers

TsFreddie

oh wait they haven't merged it

How did you end up managing the textediting state inside sdl?

unlike many other languages

ye

and i doubt its just bcs america invented most software

english is the perfect fit for computers

19:14

imagine having to type multiple characters to form one

19:14

e.g asian langs

Learath2

How did you end up managing the textediting state inside sdl?

justatest

dont know what you are talking about

Ryozuki

english is the perfect fit for computers

I'm guessing the computer would be fine with any language with a glyphcount < 255

give me a KISS: keep it simple, stupid

yeah

btw teeworlds was made following KISS

troll

xd

@Learath2 i think in sdl2 u do text edit start text edit stop give string

TsFreddie

justatest

dont know what you are talking about

Most of the weird ime bugs we have is caused by us not using sdls textediting state correctly

does sdl2 has problem with SDL_StartTextEditing

@Deleted User btw harfbuzz also handles RTL

19:16

imagine reading right to left

19:16

insane

yeah, just makes it even more complicated xd

Deleted User

@Learath2 i think in sdl2 u do text edit start text edit stop give string

You do textedit start, you start getting text input events, you then do textedit stop

i could live with it, if all languages would be like it

هاها أنت مستجد

19:17

monkalaugh

discord cant

i wonder how they recognize this stuff

so teeworlds doesnt need

its rly small

robert refactored almost everything so vanilla now tracks active text input cursor

TsFreddie

does sdl2 has problem with SDL_StartTextEditing

On macOS with pressandholdime sdls text editing gets very very confused

Image attachment

Learath2

On macOS with pressandholdime sdls text editing gets very very confused

whats pressandholdime

when i see this i get demotivated to work on it xD

xd

This kind of ime to add accents to a character

Image attachment

19:20

is that even a standard ime thing

19:20

or does windows has a similar one

its fancy javascript

The way this works is completely incompatible with how sdl does textediting, you will first get a standard e then you'll get a ë event

or is it something android

TsFreddie

or does windows has a similar one

I haven't seen it anywhere else, but it's default on macOS

Learath2

The way this works is completely incompatible with how sdl does textediting, you will first get a standard e then you'll get a ë event

with nothing in between?

19:21

i only did text edit for windows, and windows's ime event is fairly standard even tho it is broken for some third party ime.

Nope, nothing, the actual events from macOS include a "replacement range" telling you what range this new piece of text replaced, but sdls event doesn't include this information so they need to drop it

Learath2

Nope, nothing, the actual events from macOS include a "replacement range" telling you what range this new piece of text replaced, but sdls event doesn't include this information so they need to drop it

do you know if the sys event get into sdl?

It does, I even made an experimental patch to add a new event to sdl to support this kind of ime

have you tried just let sdl2 pass every system event to you

19:23

without patching it

https://github.com/libsdl-org/SDL/issues/3622 if one day mr ryan c gordon would take a look at the issues

macOS ApplePressAndHold IME · Issue #3622 · libsdl-org/SDL

This bug report was migrated from our old Bugzilla tracker. Reported in version: HG 2.1 Reported for operating system, platform: macOS 10.15, x86_64 Comments on the original bug report: On 2020-04-...

:/

19:24

sdl is so unfinished under windows and macos

19:25

valve only cares about linux xD

well ime just doesn't work on linux most of the time anyway

yeah i dont just mean ime

Learath2

It does, I even made an experimental patch to add a new event to sdl to support this kind of ime

like have you tried to get the replacerange event with SDL_EventState(SDL_SYSWMEVENT, SDL_ENABLE);

Um I don't think this event is passed through like that, the way sdl does textinput on macOS is a tad weird, they create a fake CoreText input field (it's on the top left by default so you get that weird ime bug), it's not an event but a callback

19:29

that is indeed weird

SDL could however "forge" a fake wm event from it to pass through, which could be helpful

TsFreddie

that is indeed weird

I think they took the idea from a minecraft mod that enables IME usage by using the same trick

~~well apple should've just provide ime events~~

@TsFreddie couldn't we just set a bool everytick on Input() to signal IME is need, and if that bool is not set deactivate IME again, and just store the current string in the CInput class and render it over the text input boxes?

apple should just expose the internals of appkit so we don't have to use stupid hacks like this, just let us interface directly with the text input engine

we need a focus unfocus event, would be really cleaner UI thing

vanilla has that

19:30

just port it

focus, or the one i said

well not focus unfocus, its a cursor stack iirc

ok, and how does SDL suggest IME stuff? or does it require to run ddnet in windowed mode, bcs its rendered by windows?

i rendered ime window in teeworlds

but how did you get the suggestions

and just pulled the candidate list from windows myself

like in the screen of learath

19:32

ok

suggestions come from windows API

ye. sdl doesn't give you anything

annoying already xd

but you can still get it from windows

yeah but then it wont work on macos

19:34

or some other stuff

macos already draws candidate window just fine

android just shows the virtual keyboard, thats ez af

we don't take over wm on macos i think.

19:35

the candidate window will just draw in the place that we told sdl

19:36

but there are some canvas/window chord thing.

@Deleted User its weird given how many ppl depend on sdl

19:36

but u know most companies probs dont share their patches

19:36

greedy bastards

xD

19:36

i just often read that they use SDL for the linux port

19:36

and have other stuff for windows

19:36

e.g. csgo

valve engine uses sdl

19:37

the source engine

and just forget about linux. ime isn't a thing on most linux wm. imes are just frameworks hacked onto the wm. (edited)

none work good?

Image attachment

yep

19:37

none

make one

19:38

the spirit of linux

19:38

not even google pinyin?

19:38

it has google in its name

19:38

must be good kek

ibus is obslete on wayland. fcitx is just broken

kek

Fcitx5?

kek (edited)

i still use them

19:39

but they just dont talk

https://github.com/fcitx/fcitx5

GitHub - fcitx/fcitx5: maybe a new fcitx.

maybe a new fcitx. Contribute to fcitx/fcitx5 development by creating an account on GitHub.

19:39

i looks in active dev

19:39

3 days ago last commit

TsFreddie

the candidate window will just draw in the place that we told sdl

um, only if we are borderless or windowed, otherwise the ime can't render anything over us, except in windows with their wonky blend mode

i thought macos doesn't have fullscreen mode anymore

19:41

but it's probably not sdl's fault that apple doesn't give you candidates. and i don't even know if apple has a standard for implementing a candidate list.

kek

I think SDL can do fullscreen now

19:42

Ours is broken though, so i'm not sure

~~also most users are on windows anyway~~

TsFreddie

but it's probably not sdl's fault that apple doesn't give you candidates. and i don't even know if apple has a standard for implementing a candidate list.

I think only windows gives you candidates btw

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/inputmethodkit

19:43

this should give you the candidates

Not so quick, that only helps you implement a server, not interface with that server

justatest

1

i think even valve didn't implement candidate list beyond windows.

TsFreddie

does sqlite means everything is in memory?

you can open a in memory db with :memory: as path

and they should so we can just steal it

I did develop an awful hack to extract candidates from imkit (root only and you need SIP disabled)

truly a hack

19:46

@Learath2 does sdl give you any info about the fake Textfield thing?

Nope, it's completely opaque to the user

oof

19:46

i would hope you can just grab the field and factory a "event" system.

Setting the IME spot actually moves the secret textfield over

is the backend to the info. api available to see?

19:47

i always wanted to make a cool modern frontend maybe i can with that

19:47

and heavy caching

You can create an event off of it, no problem, but I need to learn how they want it implemented

Ryozuki

is the backend to the info. api available to see?

Hm, I think it's in ddnet-web, not sure though

ddnet-web should only be the static part

19:48

i guess it doesnt

Image attachment

19:49

but this is cool tho

19:49

can we just have it kek

kek

https://github.com/libsdl-org/SDL/blob/6f684f674e1c91777d6bca6e2a49c478c4d5c401/src/video/cocoa/SDL_cocoakeyboard.m here you can see the weird thing they do for macOS

19:51

I think apples interface is just way too invasive, why do you need to know whether I have marked text, just tell me the input and I'll handle it

justatest

19:52

maybe in the name of privacy

good project to learn svelte

19:52

the reactjs killer

so one day they'll notify user whether a field is active and disable your keyboard if you don't click allow

19:52

kek

19:54

so apps can't turn your input into text. and they'll send scrambled mess keyevent for game apps.

19:54

so no app can log your keys

@Robyt3 if you find a way to get access to the imkcontroller through some api lmk btw, I looked for a while but I kinda gave up on it

I don't even own any apple device so that's probably not going to happen kek

kek

(my awful hack was to just extract the address of the imkcontroller with a debugger and setting a global variable in my program

)

does ddnet work with other keyboard layout btw?

19:59

vanilla using keycodes justatest

justatest

https://www.logcg.com/en/archives/2902.html

macOS keyboard event intercepted three ways | R0uter's Blog

Under normal circumstances，You do not need to know the contents。 In rare cases，Your app might need to get the user presses the button information，Such as the ones released to develop an input method。Only then can you provide candidates to the user。 How to create an input method under macOS，我在Swift 使用 InputMethodKit

19:59

does this make any sense

20:00

also i can't remove preview on mobile

um, the english is a bit suspect but there might be interesting info in there

the ariecle is written in chinese

20:01

idk where did the english version come from

But we don't want lower level events, but access to a middle layer, I will read, see if there is any trick used there that might get me access to the IMKit

20:04

I don't even know who I would ask for this kind of information btw, macOS is so closed

tbh getting candidatelist is probably not so important on macos. i feel like the wm adds a lot less input delay than windows.

The only reason I want the candidatelist is so we can just have one unified way to handle imes that way

well good luck talking to ibus or fcitx i guess

Let's add frida to ddnet, we can dynamically insert code into fcitx and ibus to extract it

candidatelist is also overrated

lets add frida

Image attachment

i've been trying so hard to live without one

20:10

but my brain isn't large enough to remember all my encoding for characters

Well I don't think there are any humans smart enough for that

and i probably can if i move to a shape based ime. but i don't even know how to write a lot of characters so kek

kek

20:12

maybe i should get back and practice hand writing just so i can type without a candidatelist

how do shape based imes work? radicals?

ye

20:12

Image attachment

20:13

you cant read it but it should be pretty obvious what it does

林 so this would be SS?

probably

20:14

i didnt learn this

I see the idea though, that's cute but I wonder if it's how most people think while writing

SSY

20:15

probably not

20:15

its a bit different than writing

20:15

especially on this ime

20:16

i have no idea where the Y came from but i just looked it up and it was SSY

20:16

my own ime currently is a sound-shape one where i type sound first and type one or two storkes to narrow it down

I bet it's to overcome some ambiguity, maybe it's possible to combine two glyphs in two different ways in some cases

森林

That's not really ambiguous though, SS vs SSS

禁

20:18

婪

20:18

麻

20:18

idk

20:19

none of these would make the Y nessasary. maybe it's some rules that i'm missing

20:19

i can barely keep up with my own ime already tho

唄 vs 員 Here is the one that came to my mind

20:20

Not sure if both exist in chinese though

呗员

20:20

similar enough

20:21

for my sound-shape ime it is ez cuz they sound different anyway

TsFreddie

呗员

Can you look up the combination for these?

KMY

20:22

KM

20:22

respectively

Y is like move it to the right in my mind now and the default compositing mode is top to bottom

maybe its a rule thing

20:25

ok its a short code thing

20:25

so every char has a structure code at the end

20:25

and they just decided that you can ignore the last code for 员

20:26

probably because it is more common

20:27

mine is BWO and FGO

20:27

ez

20:27

but longer code overall tho

When will the east upgrade to a computer friendly alphabet?

kek

20:29

Image attachment

Maybe take the korean route? They still have cool glyphs but the rules allow for typing easily

is chinese actually the only language (in use) that is solely designed by shape?

20:30

like we just do not have a "alphabet"

20:31

like you can't just break down a kanji into several pieces. a kanji is the smallest unit in chinese.

20:32

and you have to remember most of them if you want to read a book.

20:32

justatest

I don't think I've seen another language like it

20:33

Hindu and arabic are also very difficult for computers but for different reasons, there are glyphs there, it's just hard to combine them

and we can't just make a system for us to import english word without nuking the meaning for some kanjis and just stuff them together to make a sound.

20:35

kek

imagine reading a book with only kanjis

20:35

one of my friend who lives in japan think japanese are less likely to learn kanjis as well

20:37

when we were making jp translations for ddnet he even suggested breaking down some of the common kanjis cuz nobody use them anymore.

20:37

but we did keep some of them just be cause otherwise they were too long

hm there is this single unicode letter in arabic but seems it is a combination of others just made into one for ease of use ﷽

it is stacked

20:39

i think it is supposed to be a pretty long character

20:39

but some font just stacks it to make it more like one character

It is very wide on my computer but stacked on mobile indeed

Learath2

hm there is this single unicode letter in arabic but seems it is a combination of others just made into one for ease of use ﷽

if I copy that into firefox it becomes squashed into a rectangle

Arabic as far as I'm aware has an alphabet

https://youtu.be/cnMWoupwH6s

Reading the longest killfeed (In pixel-length) (yet!)

TsFreddie

and we can't just make a system for us to import english word without nuking the meaning for some kanjis and just stuff them together to make a sound.

Why not just use the latin alphabet at that point anyway?

20:42

The people should be fairly familiar with the glyphs and have some idea of the sounds from using pinyin

Learath2

Why not just use the latin alphabet at that point anyway?

because "normal people" who don't know english need a way to say it

Hm. Well that is an issue maybe you should borrow katakana

kek

exactly

20:44

because we just don't have that

20:45

fun fact: pinyin and zhuyin are actually a modern invention. imagine how chinese education works before these. (edited)

seems like chinese is actually the last one in real use: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logogram

In a written language, a logogram or logograph is a written character that represents a word or morpheme. Chinese characters (pronounced hanzi in Mandarin, kanji in Japanese, hanja in Korean and Hán tự in Vietnamese) are generally logograms, as are many hieroglyphic and cuneiform characters. The use of logograms in writing is called logography, ...

i find it very hard to wrap around why u need so many symbols when english does with 23

yeah, every other script moved away from logograms, usually thousands of years ago

Very interesting that it stuck around so long in china, a country decently connected to the rest of the world through trade

20:48

Maybe when long distance trading became a thing it was already too late to change

i think they have a system back then, because you learn to speak before reading, they can just map what you can speak into characters. and now you at least know how to read the characters you've spoken.

20:49

so i think ancient chinese books marks chars with two common characters where you would combine the two sounds

So you need some bootstrapping as a child to learn the common characters

well most people can't read back then anyway.

20:51

i think one of my grandfather actually can't read.

I mean it's no surprise, these extremely complex scripts have led to very low literacy rates consistently

Embedded image

20:53

we were arabs lol

20:53

xd

now it's pretty hard to not read tho

20:53

kek

20:53

education and computers came a long way for china

20:56

btw, it is really weird now that a lot of thing i just physically can not say in Chinese and i have to struggle a bit to find a alternative.

tech stuff?

people usually complains when people back from abroad mix too much english when speaking.

20:58

but it is sometime difficult to say it in actual chinese justatest

justatest

Ryozuki

tech stuff?

a quick example that i can think of is schedule.

21:00

i mean i know how to express "let me check my schedule" in chinese now. but the first time it came up it is weird that i just can not say it directly.

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #4125 Error building on Mac

i get this error building on mac 10.11, i have Xcode 8.2.1, i replaced my username with "USER": `[ 4%] Building CXX object CMakeFiles/engine-shared.dir/src/engine/shared/console.cpp.o In file included from /Users/USER/lab/ddnet/ddnet/src/engine/shared/console.cpp:5: /Users/USER/lab/ddnet/ddnet/src/base/color.h:161:18: error: inline declaration of 'color_cast' follows non-inline definition inline ColorHSLA color_cast(const ColorRGBA &rgb) ^ /Users/USER/l...

do you guys use the expression where you repeat a word for emphasis? or it is a american thing

usually mo

21:10

no

21:10

x

21:10

d

not very often I would say

like "i just saw a mouse on my table, a mouse mouse".

21:11

like saying it's an actual mouse.

21:11

justatest

yeah

maybe it's a american thing.

american Ts (edited)

i accidentally used that in chinese once and got my family confused.

21:12

justatest

21:12

and air quoting. bad habits

air quoting?

are there equivalent quotation marks in chinese?

“”

""

21:13

hm

it's the same are yours

21:13

almost

21:15

but chinese people don't know what air quoting is. actually we just don't gesture when we talk at all. i just got used to talking like a american i guess.

21:15

justatest

The word repeats aren't really a thing in any other language I'm familiar with

21:16

Haven't heard it in italian, french or turkish

Robyt3

are there equivalent quotation marks in chinese?

i think chinese's punctuations are almost 1 one to one to english ones. apart from the title marks

I've never seen word repeats being used in german, but I think it would be understood (edited)

It would be understood in turkish aswell, but you'd sound like a badly translated movie

@TsFreddie Epizeuxis

《book/song title here》

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epizeuxis

In rhetoric, epizeuxis is the repetition of a word or phrase in immediate succession, typically within the same sentence, for vehemence or emphasis. A closely related rhetorical device is diacope, which involves word repetition that is broken up by a single intervening word, or a small number of intervening words.As a rhetorical device, epizeux...

oh also think quotation marks are modernized

ur quotation marks are weird

old chinese probably use what japanese are using

Ryozuki

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epizeuxis

Hm, the "mouse mouse" thing is probably not what's in this article

「like these」

Air quotes did get adopted by turkish people rather quickly though, so we have those now

German is also weird: „Gänsefüßchen“

@Learath2 oh

21:19

maybe its this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrastive_focus_reduplication

Contrastive focus reduplication

Contrastive focus reduplication, also called contrastive reduplication, identical constituent compounding, lexical cloning, or the double construction, is a type of syntactic reduplication found in some languages. Doubling a word or phrase – such as "do you like-like him?" – can indicate that the prototypical meaning of the repeated word or phra...

spanish people be like we need two exclamation marks

In English

>

Contrastive focus reduplication is a form of motivated redundancy.[5] It is primarily employed as a form of repair in order to reinforce a speaker's true intended meaning.[4][2]

totally different naming sense for those two terms xD

@TsFreddie it actually makes some kind of sense, so u know where the question stats

21:20

Hola, ¿Como estas?

21:20

starts*

21:21

well i guess

also it looks cool

21:21

xd

Ryozuki

maybe its this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrastive_focus_reduplication

This looks closer

Diacope is "Bond. James Bond." — James Bond

Languages require sarcasm punctuation in the age of internet

21:21

Sarcasm is quite hard to get across

yes put \s or reddit is offended

you fat\s (edited)

21:21

bruh xd

was it /s

21:22

or \s

21:22

xd

habr-users use /s

i love the name

21:22

"Contrastive focus reduplication"

21:22

so complicated

21:22

makes u look smart

you even can call it CFR

apparently some ethiopic languages have an irony mark, heh TIL

"I'm up, I'm just not up up."

21:22

monkalaugh

wtf

21:24

chinese has a stop mark

21:24

i haven't seen it being used for like ever

Stop mark? Like a period?

.

、

21:26

it's probably more common in speech scripts

21:27

like if you are listing things, in a speech it make sense to stop in between you listing the things.

。、japanese has them too, I see them fairly often too, but I bet it relates a lot to the media

most people just use comma for that now (edited)

Manga doesn't have much punctuation except ! as most sentences stand alone

bruh i just realize i might be bad at chinese

Learath2

Manga doesn't have much punctuation except ! as most sentences stand alone

do u read raw manga?

21:30

ur more weeb than me

Not much, mostly since I can't read that well yet and it's just not enjoyable

bluekitty

I can only read children's books with furigana as it's a lot of pain to keep checking the readings for letters

21:32

I can get a sense of the meaning by looking at it though, just can't really read

tbh if i got the hiragana remembered. i can probably just sound out the meaning plus reading the kanjis to get it.

Well you can get a very general idea I guess

probably.

21:34

i was a weeb too afterall

味噌汁, can you take a gander at this maybe? What does it look like to someone that can read chinese?

dude

21:35

we literally call it 味噌

21:35

it's a imported word so we just import the entire kanji of course (unlike english)

21:36

miso soup btw

21:36

forgot to actually answer

Hm, I picked something too common

monkaS

泥棒

21:36

this makes no sense in chinese

do u learn all the thousand symbols or are the tricks to it

but i do know what it means (edited)

xdd

Image attachment

dorobou

Ryozuki

do u learn all the thousand symbols or are the tricks to it

are you asking me or learath

u

idk

21:37

justatest

Altogether there are over 50,000 characters, though a comprehensive modern dictionary will rarely list over 20,000 in use. An educated Chinese person will know about 8,000 characters, but you will only need about 2-3,000 to be able to read a newspaper.

he is a cheater, born with the glyphs in his blood

its more like you learn the first 3000.

2k is insane already to me xd

21:38

i guess i should see them as words

and the rest is guess and confirm

we probs know thousand of words

you probably know 8k to 10k english words or more if you are not native

we mere mortals adopt a lot of cheats to help memorize, most people use absurd stories

a recent study by the people at testyourvocab.com who say that most adult native-speakers of English have a vocabulary of 20,000-35,000 words.

Learath2

we mere mortals adopt a lot of cheats to help memorize, most people use absurd stories

can't relate

i cant use stories

21:40

like those phrases

21:40

cuz i dont remember them

21:40

xd

@Fluffy keep it to #off-topic

Sadly my selfie got deleted

kinda weird tho

21:40

came out of nowhere

@Learath2 somebody needs to develope on it (edited)

did u even read the channel description

i think thats literally inserting yourself into a convo

xdd

21:41

i think its just a weirdo seeking attetion

Ryozuki

like those phrases

Did you try? It works fairly well for me

also sending selfies into a logged channel is bold

kek

How I want a drink, alcoholic of course, after the heavy lectures involving quantum mechanics. All of thy geometry, Herr Planck, is fairly hard...: 3.14159265358979323846264...

21:42

??

21:42

i dont know

21:42

xd

21:42

https://www.ict4us.com/mnemonics/en_pi_onthouden.htm

Mnemonic: Sentences to remember Pi

Mnemonics: Math: Sentences to remember Pi

21:42

I took a quick glimpsing at bright stars far north. (3.)1415926535

21:42

???

21:42

xd

every digit in chinese is one syllable

21:43

which is super handy for numbers

21:43

ngl

chinese ppl spam numbers

吐 is just "mouth" + "soil". The kanji has the meaning "spit". Some make a lot of sense like this one

does it tho justatest

justatest

monkaS

I mean just imagine a guy spitting on the ground

oh i thought you are imagining putting soil in your mouth so you have to spit it out or something

21:45

justatest

monkaS

Heh, whichever you can imagine more clearly works the best

cuz when i see 土 i don't think of ground at all

21:46

it's just dirt for me

Well where do you chinese people keep your dirt? on the sky?

21:47

fair enough

21:47

also 士

十

士 is gentleman, no idea what it'd be in chinese

士 is just a person

I chose to remember that one as a pictogram, it somewhy looks like a persons upper torso to me, someone with very broad shoulders

士土十王干上田口

人 is person in japanese, it's way too common so I don't really have a story for it

TsFreddie

士土十王干上田口

"gentleman", "soil", "ten", "king", "dry", "above", "rice field", "mouth" the ones with low stroke count aren't that much trouble imho, very easy to read

21:51

I need to zoom in like 40% on japanese sites so I can make out the damn kanji

xd

pro

21:52

does japanese has kanjis for numbers

21:52

一?

21:52

壹？

我不酷，因为我不会说中文。弗雷迪出去了

it's probably not common

TsFreddie

一?

一二三四五六七八九十

i think they even have chinese pronunciation for these?

Deleted User

我不酷，因为我不会说中文。弗雷迪出去了

i think the german slang wasnt translated correctly xd

like do they say chi instead of nana for 七

TsFreddie

i think they even have chinese pronunciation for these?

"ichi", "ni", "san", "yon", "go", "roku", "nana", "hachi", "kyuu", "jyuu" would be the normal readings

21:56

but in some constructs they do use the chinese readings, e.g. when saying seventh you say "shichi"

weird

21:57

Image attachment

21:58

numbers in english is so long

365879

21:58

not too long

Japanese has a dire need for deduping, 3 alphabets, 3 ways to read numbers

21:59

have you played rhythm docter

22:00

they used chinese for beat hints so it is one syllable per beat.

hm, I don't play many rhythm games, I only played osu for a while

22:01

oh and a bit of muse dash

rhythm docter is a one key rhythm game which is new

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