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DDraceNetwork
Development / developer
Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.tw/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories β€” IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet
Between 2021-08-25 00:00:00Z and 2021-08-26 00:00:00Z
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[quakenet] Ryozuki BOT 2021-08-25 08:46:03Z
ChillerDragon so did u abandon matrix? i also think its quite bloated
08:46
nothing beats the simplicity of irc
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i think he quoted typical signal users, didnt he? xd
09:27
or is he serious xd
09:28
however "matrix is bad enough to be widley adopted πŸ˜„" this is gold, bcs way too true
09:28
generally spoken
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thats quite the good quote
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well @deen SDL2 has ANGLE support directly, if you want to risk it, i can setup the code for it(just need to ship the angle dlls) https://github.com/libsdl-org/SDL/blob/main/include/SDL_hints.h#L916 Probably would require some testing, e.g. if we could default to dx 11 backend, and see what happens on computers that don't support dx 11, if ANGLE can just report it I cannot hide the fact that directx is just integrated million times better than opengl under windows, and that i'm annoyed by all our work arounds, yes .. that raelly annoys me xd (edited)
Simple Directmedia Layer. Contribute to libsdl-org/SDL development by creating an account on GitHub.
09:49
and maybe ppl will complain about performance regressions no idea zink and OpenGLonDirectX12 also only have around 60% performance
09:49
i doubt angle is written so much better
09:49
but maybe it finally fixes the problems with Intel, bcs the GLonDX12 works on Intel
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this doesnt affect my glorious linux perfomance right?
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ofc not xD
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i wouldnt shoot into my own leg xd
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chillerdragon disable zoom on your gctf server
11:07
also on 0.6 there is no sound of flag capture
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A kid I tutored for a while took his C exam, look at the gem he brought me from the exam: int a = 5, b = 10; printf("%d %d", b, a -= (b = (a += b) - b)); What is the output?
12:36
Imagine being a professor, hired at an university and having this in your exam
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The output is "-2: Please put your code into a readable format"
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Where -2 is the code review that prevents submitting
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I mean the entire thing is also UB, so that could indeed be the output gcc decides on
12:43
A friend of his apparently got a gem of a question too char[] str = { 65, 77, 23, 67 }; int len = strlen(str);...
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ELI5 why are ddos attacks so hard to deal with
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Imagine ten thousand people beating you with bats wearing masks
13:06
What are you going to do about it? They are wearing masks so you can't identify any of them to report them. Nor can you reasonably fight back against ten thousand people. So your only option is to hire security, which costs a lot
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what are the defenses taken by more expensive servers?
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They either a) Pay for massive connections b) Pay people with massive connections to filter the traffic before it ever gets to them
13:09
Oh or c) Are people that have massive connections because they are their own ISP, like google or amazon
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Learath2
A friend of his apparently got a gem of a question too char[] str = { 65, 77, 23, 67 }; int len = strlen(str);...
cs exams always ask the dumbest questions
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Oh and there is one last option, if you are a large corporation actually losing money from the ddos the police will actually care about your report because police is there for only one reason: it's not protecting citizens or enforcing law, it's to protect capital
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can't you somehow block the ip addresses of the ddosing computers?
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They don't use a single ip, they use thousands, and they are faking those ips while at it
13:16
that's the first d in ddos: distributed, it's a small amount of traffic coming from thousands of different ips amounting to a lot of traffic
13:16
we do during tournaments and stuff agressively firewall sometimes, only allowing packets from people already in the server
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but eventually they run out of computers no?
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they don't use multiple computers, they just fake that the traffic is coming from different computers
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but aren't those fake computers identifiable somehow? or something idk xd
13:17
also why isn't that allowing packets from ppl already in the server a good solution?
13:17
cause u can no longer connect to the server or something?
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well first of all no new players can ever connect, second is a problem we have mostly solved but it used to be that they used to collect players ips and faked those so our firewall wouldn't catch much
13:18
s/used to collect/collected/
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so basically it's impossible to solve without a server capable of handling large number of requests?
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atleast not solve it as in how it's not a problem in most AAA games
13:21
they just pay the exorbitant fees and get their traffic filtered
13:24
(btw it's not us spreading our funds too thin or anything, the sum total ddnet has spent on infrastructure over the years is not enough to get 1 month of filtered traffic)
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so the people that sell the traffic filtering have to stay up to date with the ip addresses the attacks usually come from?
13:25
or do you know vaguely how they filter ?
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Well they employ a variety of techniques that they don't always share, but they do indeed keep track of the uses of an ip address, but it's not that fact that helps them
13:27
They have MASSIVE networks, to the tune of dozens of tbps going all around the world. They get so much information to work with. They track packet origins and destinations e.g.
13:28
If a packet from ip 1.2.3.4 is entering the network at a different node than usual they know it's possible that it's a dirty packet with a fake origin
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would an account system for ddnet help with the ddosing? like as a detterent at least/too much work for the not highly motivated attackers?
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Not really
13:32
These people are usually just motivated by annoying others, at best they wouldn't care what happens to their account at worst they would get even more angry and ddos more
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but you'd need to make many accounts right?
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Not really, there is nothing about accounts that would stop them from sending packets
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well what identifiable information about the transmitter is transmitted with these packages
13:35
only the ip address?
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There are some very very tiny hints in there that I'd rather not say, but the main thing is indeed the ip
13:37
and remember the ip doesn't identify the attacker in this case, it's just some random ip picked by the attacker
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can't you associate those things with an account?
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you could keep track of it, sure but the problem is that our connection gets overwhelmed by packets, to be able to filter an attack you need to have a connection bigger than the attack
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you can't ignore the packets? or just the action of looking at a packet takes enough time for the server to get unresponsive with enough packets?
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It needs to arrive at the server first, then we need to inspect it, then we need to decide whether to ignore it. The problem is not all the packets will even arrive at the server. The hoster will drop all the packets over our allowance
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louis
cs exams always ask the dumbest questions
I don't mind dumb, I draw the line at wrong though...
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but everyone needs to do the same process of inspection and deciding what to do, so why isn't everything on the internet ddosed? just cause the bad guys don't have the numbers in other cases?
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Most services are easier to protect, websites don't need to deal with spoofed (fake ip) traffic because a spoofed connection won't get past the TCP 4-way handshake and hosters have good firewalls against TCP attacks
13:46
Games are very hard to protect
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hard to protect because of how responsive they need to be to packets?
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Well sort of, since they have to be responsive they usually use UDP which only specialized firewalls can filter well, but that's not the whole reason, it's usually that games have very different protocols, so there is no one firewall fits all
13:49
Very popular games are supported by these specialized firewall vendors, so a csgo server is easier to protect than a teeworlds server since no firewall vendor supports our protocol
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Οƒβ„“Γ­β™‘ 2021-08-25 13:49:47Z
here are the main changes, not including minor ones?
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yours will be displayed
13:50
if you mean that
13:50
this is just, what is left
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Learath2
A kid I tutored for a while took his C exam, look at the gem he brought me from the exam: int a = 5, b = 10; printf("%d %d", b, a -= (b = (a += b) - b)); What is the output?
i wonder whats the point of this, whats trying to make u learn
13:50
because isnt at the end the reason do u do this: to learn
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Οƒβ„“Γ­β™‘
here are the main changes, not including minor ones?
all updates since the last versions are displayed normally (edited)
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Ryozuki
i wonder whats the point of this, whats trying to make u learn
It's trying to gauge whether you know precedence rules I guess? It's entirely wrong because there are no sequence points in there
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i love how they put effort in the least important stuff imho
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Anyway, @Cipy29 this is waay past ELI5 and I still need to get some studying done today, so I'll take my leave o/
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i wouldnt focus on language quirks rather on generic programming concepts
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Ryozuki
i wouldnt focus on language quirks rather on generic programming concepts
Especially in a programming101 class. I would totally have a simpler question like this illustrating UB though
13:52
(in a second year class though)
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Learath2
Anyway, @Cipy29 this is waay past ELI5 and I still need to get some studying done today, so I'll take my leave o/
haha ok πŸ™‚ thanks for talking to me πŸ˜„
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Deleted User
all updates since the last versions are displayed normally (edited)
Οƒβ„“Γ­β™‘ 2021-08-25 14:02:49Z
There are more significant changes there, and such small ones as #3971 are not needed there, right?
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I think it should fix #3925. Previously, the game stopped due to the fact that it was possible to turn on the selection by a random click, but if you disable the quick edit flags, then the selectio...
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@heinrich5991 91.10.52.220:8312 faking my server
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Οƒβ„“Γ­β™‘
There are more significant changes there, and such small ones as #3971 are not needed there, right?
The milestone was made so we knew what we wanted to finish up before release, it's not meant to have all issues in there. The changelog will correctly include all changes
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Οƒβ„“Γ­β™‘
There are more significant changes there, and such small ones as #3971 are not needed there, right?
yeah but normally all changes are just shown https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/compare/15.5-devel...master all from 20.june
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fokkonaut
@heinrich5991 91.10.52.220:8312 faking my server
heinrich is away for a while more, you can ask dune as he is the only other person with access
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Οƒβ„“Γ­β™‘ 2021-08-25 14:06:02Z
Aah, now I understand, thanks guys:)
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He is trying to steal account/rcon data via a proxy
14:08
reported to dune aswell now
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we really should get in challange auth or asymmetric crypto soon so they can't mitm
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i think its more like he is just trying to grab ips to make people timeout
14:15
yea he grabs ips with it
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yeah and he actually fakes a kog server too lmao
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Boti.
yeah and he actually fakes a kog server too lmao
greenthing
14:54
someone will be owner of many kog accounts
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fokkonaut
He is trying to steal account/rcon data via a proxy
I can proof that he stole several account information and changed passwords and removed money from accounts.
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i think his name is known, go to police, nothing else you can do
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the police is not concerned with teeworldsmoney
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i know :/
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when new release?
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when you tell me why everyone has to introduce their own new annoying build system
15:37
who
15:38
for google angle
15:38
so it defs cannot be compiled with mingw, sucks
15:38
i tried to use the once from firefox, but they somehow dont work with SDL XD
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15:38
was this the xkcd? xd
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^^
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15:40
xddd
15:40
i found it funny
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lol i could swear this is like 10 years old and i saw it on some computer science tournament in school time xd
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fokkonaut
I can proof that he stole several account information and changed passwords and removed money from accounts.
Big trolltroll
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-08-25 16:51:48Z
Thanks for the feedback i created issues and will fix it soon(tm) https://github.com/ZillyNade/ddnet-gctf/issues (@gerdoe)
also on 0.6 there is no sound of flag capture
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Obsidian – A knowledge base that works on local Markdown files.
17:30
looks cool
17:30
a good tool for making a "personal wiki"
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Ρ†Ρ‰Ρ„
17:42
woah that's sick*
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Does Teeworlds/DDNet have support for JSON
17:49
?
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src/engine/external/json-parser
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Much appreciated! Now just gotta figure out how to use that bad boi
17:57
Huh, there's only a parser, not a serializer?
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Π΄Π³ΠΊΠ» Π°Ρ‰ΠΊ ddnet-info.json
18:05
there you can find json-serde
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Sorry, where?
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no json serializer in ddnet i think, just parser. why?
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then what's the case of use ddnet-info.json in cfg directory?
18:17
just don't get it
18:18
parser means it can read the ddnet-info json file
18:18
its a file downloaded by the client btw
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Blade
Huh, there's only a parser, not a serializer?
Teeworlds has CJsonWriter (src/engine/shared/jsonwriter.h). You could port it to DDNet if you like.
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My C++ skills are fairly limited currently πŸ˜…
18:25
Actually, that doesn't seem to have any dependencies on other files, so it might be fairly easy?
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yes. for good measure you should also port the tests as well
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Might not do that, considering this is for testing only
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Ryozuki
its a file downloaded by the client btw
aah
18:39
makes sense
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-08-25 18:51:52Z
porting cjsonwriter from teeworlds to ddnet is easy iv done it while trying to port the skin system which is not that easy :D
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I mean, I think I ported it, but when joining the server (which calls CJsonWriter) the server just crashes, no logs, no anything
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use debugger πŸ€ͺ
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Debugger is borked
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good old dbg_msg("debug", "here 123")
justatest 3
happy 1
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