DDraceNetwork - developer

DDraceNetwork

Development / developer

Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.tw/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories — IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet

Between 2021-08-05 00:00:00Z and 2021-08-06 00:00:00Z

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #3995 Feature: Allow binding + create commands for editor functions

I understand the amount of work that would have to go into this, but here's a (mostly) complete list as a starting point. I didn't include commands for server/envelope settings since you have to use the UI most of the time anyway, and I used the command prefix edt_ for these but ed_ would be more ideal if it wasn't already in use. File menu:

edt_file_new
edt_file_load
edt_file_loadcurrentmap
edt_file_append
edt_file_save
edt_file_saveas
edt_file_savecopy
edt...

that took way longer than im willing to admit (edited)

isnt there already keyboard shortcuts for some of those

hardcoded, yes

00:08

the idea is to allow them to be bindable/configurable like everything else in the game lol

00:09

i love how user-focused this game is, and i just wanna increase the coverage of that

00:09

you could also do this for demos? but not sure how useful that would be

maybe but who would actually rebind the editor controls

00:15

wait oh

00:15

nobody would bind file menu but the other stuff would be nice yeah

also consider that i added commands for things that are not already bound to anything

1

00:19

it drives me crazy that there's no command to focus the tele/switch button

00:19

for ctrl-f

ed_ is already used for map editor so just use that instead of edt_ (edited)

hmm, support for uploading a map to a server in game

00:22

ed_ is for demos i thought

00:22

what is showkeys then

show the keys you press when you are in map editor

w a t

00:23

oh i see

00:23

nvm then

00:24

updated

00:24

also let me use the consoles in the editor ffs

00:25

:(

seriously guys make points clan

04:14

would be great and would be there meaning from use same clan+i guess ppl will stop play with same name

would be cool (edited)

should be make issue right? tee_thinking

tee_thinking

[ddnet-maps:master] 1 new commit

c2bd2ae A Fanxing - ddnet-maps

Needs accounts

2

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #3996 Make the country/type selection more intuitive

I watched a live stream where someone struggled with this, not knowing that right click has different functionality from left click, and had to manually click on each entry to remove them all except one.

Checklist

[x] Tested the change ingame
[ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
[ ] Tested in combination with possibly related configuration options
[ ] Written a unit test if it works standalone, system.c especially
[ ] Considered possible null pointers...

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #3997 Use upstream ui color constants

add text and outline color constants, fix reset after loading https://github.com/teeworlds/teeworlds/commit/f81eaa9d09c9c4066c05ccb8b55fbe09861c4e64 Use consistent text transparency https://github.com/teeworlds/teeworlds/commit/d28782d169f0d7831754ec8d7b5f616d658e8c3b One less undefined constant when stealing upstream code :)

Checklist

[X] Tested the change ingame
[ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
[ ] Tested in combination with possibly related configu...

[ddnet:master] 2 new commits

7dcca97 Revert "Fix client use-after-free reported by mmmds" - def- 1ee4f01 Merge #3992 - bors[bot]

14:39

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #3992 Revert "Fix client use-after-free reported by mmmds"

Why does the afk emote disappear after getting killed (or changing map) ? Was it simply forgotten or is it not easy to implement that it stays?

Knuski

Why does the afk emote disappear after getting killed (or changing map) ? Was it simply forgotten or is it not easy to implement that it stays?

changing map is not possible to determine since it's technically a reconnection

19:12

i think the reason getting killed resets afk is because it resets your entire player object and afk must be a part of it, probably better that way

1

19:13

otherwise afk status would have to be decoupled from player and moved to some connection level class with references to your tees (maybe that makes more sense actually?)

alright

client can send packet on connection that specifies if he will be afk

19:16

or just add argument to netmsg_info packet

Anime.pdf

client can send packet on connection that specifies if he will be afk

yeah i like this solution

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #3998 Improvement: Record ping more accurately

A player could disconnect during a lag spike and the server may be recorded as having high ping, making it harder for players to find later with sort and filter settings active. My suggestion is to store a player's ping every 30 seconds and keep the lowest value, or take the average if the differences are not significant.

@murpi let me know if i should amend it with anything or if that seems reasonable

21:20

like a maximum number of pings to track

21:20

probably 10

looks good

idk how long lag spikes can last though

21:21

but it should be resilient to favor previous ping storage over current higher ping

mm maybe you can just keep using disconnect ping, and compare against the last disconnect ping. if the new value is higher, take the average and store that. otherwise, store the new value

21:43

dumber system but much easier to reason with + nice automatic behavior

GitHub

Click to see attachment 🖼️

I dont get it

plus if you connected during 999 ping, well your average would be like 500 ping so it doesn't do anything

Anime.pdf

I dont get it

fixing the issue of storing lag spikes in server browser ping

21:45

for people who use sort/filter by ping

But u just see EUR AFR etc

not when you connect

Well actually im using old version so i see actual ping

lol

21:46

new version still shows ping. it just does it based on last ping (edited)

21:46

if you dont connect to a server it will show the region

So what is ur issue

let's say someone disconnects because of ddos

21:47

then in the browser, it shows the ddos ping

21:47

if someone has a max ping filter of 200

21:47

they will not see the server anymore

yes

this is not ideal

21:47

ping storage should be more resilient

21:47

to discrepancies in ping

21:48

i think taking the average is fine

Well, thats the problem of that region ping update monkaS

monkaS

maybe it pushes it down the list but not off your filter

21:48

but if you somehow had 999 ping when you disconnect it's still a terrible average

Anime.pdf

Well, thats the problem of that region ping update monkaS

monkaS

yea i agree, but there must be a workaround

21:49

maybe you do need a more sophisticated system like i mentioned

21:50

eh, actually this problem can be solved by having an option for clients to "trust" servers

21:50

and they always ask for ping even when not connecting

21:50

you can also have an option for auto-trusting servers when you connect once (edited)

I dont rly get the point of region pings cuz who will track every server ping and ddos ever ip he sees, like he dont even get nickname or smth pepeH

pepeH

Anime.pdf

I dont rly get the point of region pings cuz who will track every server ping and ddos ever ip he sees, like he dont even get nickname or smth pepeH

pepeH

doesn't matter, anyone in internet tab would get every single ip and that's so easy to ddos with

But thats only ip

21:51

U just get thousands of ips every second

21:51

Minute*

players are constantly querying the master server

21:52

i dont know the specifics on how the ddos works but i know it's because of how many ips there are + consistent connections

Ddos = a lot of packets from a lot of ips at same time

player ips

Well, smbd can just ddos masterbrowser and nobody would see any server

21:54

Like it was a year ago

21:54

Constantly clear browser (edited)

my point was that any registered server could see all player ips, and those ips could be used for ddos

registred server sends self info to master server and players parse that info and with old ping system - pings every server directly, someone who have server could look up recent pings and look for ips (edited)

wait you just gave me an idea

22:00

maybe it doesnt work though (edited)

22:01

it involves storage of IPs on master so i think it can't be done under privacy law

nouis

if we have the ability to classify region based on IP the same could be done for players

22:02

and then we could insert approximate ping for servers that have not been connected to

22:02

but maybe the server determination is more secure than player could be, and it wouldn't work as well

Actually i know nothing, forget what i said above just open code and see how it works. Good noght i goo sleep

meh we can just do something like "opt into geolocation for approximate ping values for new servers"

22:04

good night

Anime.pdf

Well, smbd can just ddos masterbrowser and nobody would see any server

with the new master that is also no longer possible as I understand it, since it is now cached behind cloudflare

@Patiga what do you think about the idea of averaging ping for client storage

22:08

bad because it's technically inaccurate? or helpful

22:09

i think it should always store the lowest value

22:09

unless there's a really old ping that is lower, and the new ping is consistently higher

hm

22:10

I have no idea about the code there, but averaging probably comes with its own problems

yeah like 999 ping

average > lowest ping

maybe it should just store high ping if it's consistent in the current session compared to last session

some people have jumpy pings so lowest ping would be less accurate

louis

average > lowest ping

okay but let's say you have 60 ping to a server and you disconnect in a ddos at 999 ping. then you have 500 ping and your filter makes it so you dont see it anymore

what do you mean with averaging btw, which data do you use?

there needs to be a threshold on when to average

do you take it each time you disconnect?

Patiga

what do you mean with averaging btw, which data do you use?

3 things, last disconnect ping, last average / lowest ping (however we decide), and transient ping

22:12

like whatever is recent

22:12

last disconnect ping should be favored if it is low

22:12

but if the new values are consistent, we have to consider that a player may have moved or changed internet service

cant you ignore outliers when calculating average

yes

22:12

but what is a good threshold?

22:13

what is normal deviation for inconsistent ping?

22:13

50? (edited)

idk maybe do mode then

I mean do we want to see servers that we left with a 999 ping?

ping has several nearby values for close fluctuations

22:14

i dont think mode can work

22:14

you have to "lump" pings together for average consideration

Patiga

I mean do we want to see servers that we left with a 999 ping?

i think most people will not want that, but there may be some that want

22:15

imo 999 ping is never really "accurate"

22:15

it may have been accurate when you left

22:15

but is it really accurate before you start playing again?

22:15

most likely not

i mean technically the ddos ping getting into average is accurate monkalaugh

monkalaugh

yes, but what about when you plan to connect again

22:15

and ddos is done

22:16

it's not accurate anymore (edited)

then itll average out later

but you cant see the server anymore because ping filter

dont use ping filter

this is not ideal xd

22:16

it should be resilient to wild fluctuations

I think smth like take the ping on disconnect and the ones in the last 5 secs and average them could be fine

yeah i have something like that in github

recent values, a bit of average

in the issue comment

22:17

last 16 pings, recorded every 30 seconds

22:17

then try to come to an average within an outlier threshold

22:17

average that with last disconnect ping

22:17

repeat

if u record every 30 seconds then i dont think u need disconnect pings

if you disconnect mid-collection just use all those values for the basis of your average

louis

if u record every 30 seconds then i dont think u need disconnect pings

disconnect ping is important for historic context

22:18

an average of 16 pings in 8 minutes is still inaccurate if the ddos lasts that long

22:18

honestly we might want to up it to 15 seconds

22:18

so 16 pings in 4 minutes

22:18

seems more realistic

lynn

then try to come to an average within an outlier threshold

imo this approach is too complicated. that doesn't sound intuitive for the user to me

i want to avoid using arbitrary things like thresholds

22:19

maybe if your ping was stable in a certain range it changes to the average

22:19

and that's the only criteria

22:20

but ddos ofc still affects this

imo if a server gets ddosed the client should see it as 999

22:20

only maybe the master server could detect ddos and send that info to the client

just sucks for people using ping filter

22:21

or never try to connect to a server again if it was ddossed and they just connect to top pings

Patiga

only maybe the master server could detect ddos and send that info to the client

here the master server could tell the client that this specific server isn't ddosed anymore, so reset your ping

hmm so like two values on the client

no, one

historic_ping and incidental_ping

22:22

well, we want to avoid ping queries without having to disconnect right?

22:22

so the client would have to remember the old ping

22:23

instead of it being fed from the master server

that would work too, but I think the current way, displaying it as the region, would work as well

ah i see

22:23

yeah that can work fine

both is good

i think having historic_ping and then if they are in game while ddos starts, the client is notified and it stores something in incidental

22:24

and master server can reply with "server is ok now" and it will remove incidental and use historic

22:25

having this at server level is way better btw

22:25

because we've completely solved the issue of confusing client connection for ddos

, historic ping could work really well, although I think it might also be really annoying/hard to get right

22:27

since its a value that you would need to adjust a lot with changing circumstances, you can't just write down one simple number and be happy

i mean you always put ping there unless the server tells you it's being ddosed

22:29

and then when you query master, the master server tells you if it's being ddosed a single time (edited)

22:29

and it either throws away incidental or keeps using it

22:30

sorry edited

but the 'current' ping is updated constantly, you contact the master server much less frequently

22:31

^ while you are connected to the server

22:31

-> since out of the server you can't update the ping

well doesn't the server communicate with master

22:32

and if it's able to tell if it's being ddosed it forwards that to the client

you mean the server can tell you it is being ddosed?

Patiga

only maybe the master server could detect ddos and send that info to the client

can't we do this

22:33

i guess the client would just ask the master server for this info periodically

yeah, although by the time you get that info from the master server, you will already be experiencing ddos ping

22:35

I'm not trying to say its impossible, only that this approach will have some complications to get it right

hmm yeah

22:50

i think it's better if the game server handles the request for all connected clients, and it does it frequently enough to record your incident ping before historic

22:50

and the server just broadcasts the ddos flag asap to all clients

22:53

im even wondering now if it would be better to keep a running average, and compress similar historic values as a single average value that's multiplied by some amount

22:54

brain working

22:58

ping = (ping * max(days since first connect, 30) + new ping) / (max(days since first connect, 30) + 1)

22:58

maybe 30 days max is too high (edited)

23:02

hmm i think i just thought of a great solution

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