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DDraceNetwork
Development / developer
Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.tw/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories — IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet
Between 2021-07-07 00:00:00Z and 2021-07-08 00:00:00Z
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add the arrows in record demo pleasebanhammer
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cl_video_showdirection 1
heartw 2
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it's work nice
happy 1
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Did you know that data races are UB in >C11 and >C++11? Very interesting
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hussainx3
add the arrows in record demo pleasebanhammer
Skin
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minute
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Deleted User
Skin
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thanks
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@heinrich5991 thanks for the compose key recommendation, works great
03:19
ññ
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man i can't wrap my head around game engines networking solution
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what engine
03:28
work?
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they keep telling you to stuff both server and client logic in the same script
03:29
justatest
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lynn
work?
ye. unity
03:29
sounds like a small project lol
03:33
wait. wrong post
03:33
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yo guys, short question, jsut to understand it. Does ddnet have a ddos protection? and if not, whats the reason for? is it possble to help? with money coding/implementing or idk?
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2-3k $ per month might help xd
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TsFreddie
ur server?
10:37
looks like java xd
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Deleted User
ur server?
no
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im playing on german- you just say that as a guess or you know it?
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i meant tsfreddie 😄
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FreZZ7
im playing on german- you just say that as a guess or you know it?
but the 2-3k $ were for ur question xd
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Deleted User
but the 2-3k $ were for ur question xd
yeah, i know- so you guessing it or you know it?
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ddos protection is just insanly expensive
10:39
nothing u'll be able to affort
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yeah i know it isnt that cheap- but it might have been the problem to implement it- thanks bro
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:00:55Z
so many- dashes in the - sentence :D
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chillerdragon ever checked if the fps are actually lower? with a external tool dunno how to tag u
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:09:17Z
u did good
11:09
i also responded
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oh
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:10:00Z
element has a ping based on name like irc and tw chat
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ok, if u on linux and use mesa drivers u can just use GALLIUM_HUD=fps ./DDNet
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:11:59Z
@Deleted User: dont u belive me seeing that it performs bad with my eyes?
11:12
seems like i do not use mesa drivers
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is the client open source?
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:14:20Z
chillerbot-ux UserExperience based on DDraceNetwork, a mod of Teeworlds - chillerbot/chillerbot-ux
11:14
pls no ban .-.
11:15
do you see emojis tho
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:15:25Z
yes
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:15:32Z
🚎
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chillerdragon
yes
nice
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:15:43Z
image.png
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this bridge is really good
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:16:03Z
but no troll
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:16:13Z
reply sucks tho
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Knuski
nouis3
Pepega
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:16:31Z
i mean i think u can see mine but i can not see the replys from discord (@gerdoe)
this bridge is really good
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Stepfunn
Pepega
U
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chillerdragon
i mean i think u can see mine but i can not see the replys from discord (@gerdoe)
lol that reply xd
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"Based on DDNet which is based on DDrace which is based on Teeworlds." kek
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chillerdragon: seems to be same fps for me
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which is based on teewars which is based on teepop
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:18:17Z
@Deleted User: wat? did you run the client and test with dummy or what?
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which is based
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yes
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:18:31Z
@Deleted User: it sometimes happens after a few hours of runtime
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i toiggled between them
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:18:42Z
u wont catch that in 5mins
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ah thought its always xd
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:18:54Z
nah
11:19
also u on windows right?
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no
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:19:12Z
no?
11:19
since when
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since i replaced my nvidia card
11:19
which always crashed my linux system back then
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:19:35Z
dafok is teepop @gerdoe
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so dunno 3-4 years maybe
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:19:50Z
4 years!?
11:19
why was i so sure u use windows then?
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cool game by matricks
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i have windows installed, if a game doesnt run, but lately i can run all games on linux, thanks to more improvements in wine and dxvk 😄
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:20:35Z
@Deleted User: yea anyways i think my client is full of bugs the windows users report crashes ._. i run some valgrind but didnt find shit
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then i'd say windows is full of bugs
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:21:04Z
i also run my teeworlds in wine because the best bot clients are only compiled for windows
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:21:22Z
ah yes its probably windows not my client sure :D
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yes, just blame the others
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:21:49Z
ofc
11:21
always blame microfost
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chillerdragon
i also run my teeworlds in wine because the best bot clients are only compiled for windows
Holy what a Pepega
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best tactic... intels fault
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xd dejavu
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:22:40Z
@Deleted User: but i can recommend you switching to chillerbot-ux as main client anyway :D then u might spot the fps issue at some point
11:22
@Deleted User: has juicy features such as "goto_switch" and "goto_tele"
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i prefer to not use features, that are suspecious
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:23:41Z
axaxaxax
11:23
whats suspecious? :D
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sussy features
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chat bots
11:23
or afk bots
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:24:14Z
auto reply when afk such sus
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oh souly is proud user of cbux then
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well im not saying that ddnet doesnt allow it, i dunno what the rules are i just don't need such features, not worth it xd
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:25:32Z
u said u have 10k fps
11:25
sounds like u need a client that lowers it
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under certain circumstances xd
11:25
isnt ur client ddnet based anyway?
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:26:20Z
it also has totally non sus features like cl_remote_control
11:26
yea it is
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then i guess it can perform around the same level ^^
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cl_activate_mining
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:26:58Z
axaxax
11:27
mining comes soon(tm)
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quickly uninstalls
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TsFreddie
they keep telling you to stuff both server and client logic in the same script
this is the new prevalent way to do it, both in unity and unreal
👀 1
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i mean i get it
11:28
but it is still pretty annoying
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i dont like it
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nobody likes it
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but unreal still has c binds doesnt it?
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nothing better than not using any editor based game dev and take 1000 hours to do anything greenthing
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well i can probably still just code the network transport myself
11:29
but i don't think they would let me 👀
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TsFreddie
nobody likes it
Hm, I doubt that. I'm sure most developers enjoy having networking out of the box without having to think much about it
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Ryozuki
nothing better than not using any editor based game dev and take 1000 hours to do anything greenthing
>bevy
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gerdoe
>bevy
actually i love ecs based game engines
11:30
its the future, ez paralelism
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Learath2
Hm, I doubt that. I'm sure most developers enjoy having networking out of the box without having to think much about it
if you want to do p2p or host/clients yes
11:30
dedicated server stuff is a bit weird
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i heard unreal and unity kinda do it internally now too
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@TsFreddie unreal atleast has a way to build a dedicated server
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they are planning it
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mostl a headless client
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unity has it too
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its the future
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Ryozuki
actually i love ecs based game engines
still want to try it, but nothing comes up for game idea xd
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@gerdoe i wanted to do a zach-like game with teeworlds theme
11:31
i just have to start it
11:31
inb4 nobody knows zachtronics games feelsbadman
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just the "network layer" we were supposed to use doesn't like separating server/client code very much
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but i don't really want to ship server code in client as well.
11:32
if i don't care, putting both in the same script works just fine.
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waiting for godot to release 4.0 with vulkan and new cool stuff
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maybe not caring is the best solution some time.
11:32
godot is goodot
11:33
i miss it
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u can actually use rust with godot
11:33
xd
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or typescript
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@TsFreddie I have a solution for you, a genius one, so smart your mind will be blown
11:34
put ifdefs around the server code thinkaboutit
11:35
smart
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does c# hav ifdef
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unity has it
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a headless client is way too much overhead btw imo
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these solutions were mostly born out of convenience rather than performance
11:39
besides, hosting is mostly offloaded to game service providers
11:39
so in china it is pretty common to do the most convenient solution and let the provider deal with scaling
11:39
unless you're tencent
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everyone is tencent
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👀 i mean tencent itself
11:41
not the ones taking/giving money from/to them
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@TsFreddie u doing that ddnet clone in unity?
11:41
maybe
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atleast in unreal you can hook fairly low to implement your own networking
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i don't know why i said maybe, they didn't make me sign any NDA or anything
11:42
but boss is looking at me chatting with you guys sooooooo
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Learath2
atleast in unreal you can hook fairly low to implement your own networking
does it take lot of time to learn unreal? without the blueprint stuff
11:42
or do u have to actually use that
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and does it feel good to create the maps in their editor, or is a custom one like teeworld's one better to use?
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TsFreddie
but boss is looking at me chatting with you guys sooooooo
troll
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he's literally on the left of me
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Ryozuki
does it take lot of time to learn unreal? without the blueprint stuff
yes, it's a huge project
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yo boss of tsfreddie
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Ryozuki
or do u have to actually use that
I wouldn't avoid the blueprints, they make it much more fun
11:43
The idea is to make blueprint components out of C++
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Deleted User
and does it feel good to create the maps in their editor, or is a custom one like teeworld's one better to use?
small editor better but less functionality i suppose
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i only tested the godot web editor, but felt like a pain
11:44
but yeah its highly customizable ofc
11:44
so not comparable to blocky teeworlds
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:52:49Z
yo @Deleted User is int64_t on mac something else than on linux?
11:52
i get this on mac error: format specifies type 'long' but the argument has type 'long long' [-Werror,-Wformat] but the other way around on linux
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in what file
11:53
but its possible its different yes
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:53:13Z
in my haxclient
11:53
GitHub is where people build software. More than 65 million people use GitHub to discover, fork, and contribute to over 200 million projects.
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just replace all int64 with int64_t
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:53:40Z
i did
11:53
that caused the issue
11:53
maybe i gotta cast it to long then
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ah in printf
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:53:55Z
ye
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yeah thats a pain, but there are also std replacements for that
11:54
str_timeformat or smth has it
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:54:12Z
for what ?
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for %ld
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:54:21Z
ah
11:54
but if one is long and the other long long didnt we add possible bugs to the codebase?
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PRId64
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:54:46Z
seems like previously int64 was long long on every system
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#include <cinttypes>
11:54
yes
11:55
no it shouldnt bug, just always use standard
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:55:40Z
whats "PRId64"
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int64_t
11:56
the text replacement for printf
11:56
so instead of %ld use %" PRId64 " rest of string"
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:57:49Z
that looks even more messy than my long cast ;D
11:57
but you say thats the good style way?
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its the standard way, i wouldn't say its good xd
11:58
guess there is a reason c++ added streams, indepentent of, if they good either xD
11:59
i bet boost has some nice better solutions^^
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 11:59:24Z
ur a boost maximalist?
11:59
want it in ddnet? :D
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imo its just a better standard
12:00
but i rarely use it, used it in the past
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 12:00:55Z
yo btw how far is your svg render engine for tw? :p
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haha, i doubt we'll do it with pure SVGs, but as soon as we have game.svg i'll add support client side to load higher res pngs
12:01
UHD option basically
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 12:01:45Z
lame
12:01
but still cool
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@Deleted User what about https://abseil.io/
An open-source collection of core C++ library code
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 12:02:16Z
A collection of free to use and edit images for other art work. No actual game skins. - TeeworldsDB/images
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Ryozuki
@Deleted User what about https://abseil.io/
never heard of it 😄
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its google own impl of c++ std
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chillerdragon, 0.7 again?
12:02
still nice
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its probs way more perfomant too
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i'd really like to have all mapres too 😄
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 12:03:07Z
@Deleted User: i think jungle_doodads did not diff in 0.7
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Ryozuki
its probs way more perfomant too
ah yeah, i think i heard that exists, sounds good
12:03
performance best
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since in std u cant implement new found optimizations cuz MUH ABI STABLE!!!
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chillerdragon nice 😄
12:03
good read
12:04
Making std::regex faster (it is currently faster to launch PHP to execute a regex than it is to use std::regex
12:04
monkalaugh
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is the standard limiting the performance?
12:04
or is gcc/clangs impl just so bad xD
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its maintaining ABI stability what limits perfomance
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ah i see
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they cant implement new optimizations
12:05
the post i sent is gud
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yeah will read
12:05
as long its based on facts
12:05
and not biased
12:05
it shows the pros and cons
12:05
of both sides
12:06
there is a reason why google made abseil
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yeah but google also has weird code style rules
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i mean i can imagine there is alot of shit in std, question is how good are compilers to remove that
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u cant remove the shit
12:07
since some ppl rely on the quirks
12:07
it has
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yeah, but i mean like if gcc has a gcc c++ mode default
12:09
smth like that
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For example, std::string has a string_view conversion operator that I want to kill with fire, and that might be an ABI break which is not a source break - or an almost silent one-.
what? this operator is so useful 😄
12:24
if they want to remove something, they should get rid of that stream garbage finally
12:24
iostream and stuff
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the stream is the cout and cin stuff right
12:24
the worst part of C++ standard library
12:25
and also quite big one i think
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overloading the << and >> operator makes u able to do weird stuff
12:25
xd
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exactly 😄
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Comrade
and also quite big one i think
making standard library smaller is good for static linking
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just use lto
12:26
then all trash is gone xd
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hopefully
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i use rust and then all c++ is gone xd
12:26
monkalaugh
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ez af
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best solution 🙂
12:27
but C++ is still nice
12:27
i honestly dont want to do much with it rn
12:28
and im gonna try embedded rust when my STM32F3DISCOVERY arrives
12:28
poggers
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i heard even their indian C libs (no offense) are full of bugs (edited)
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whats that
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let's hope putting Rust on top of it won't make it even worse
12:30
development of base libs for modern microcontrollers is outsourced to India to keep the price low
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i dont need any C when using rust
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so you know
12:31
but Rust uses some C libs from ST, doesn't it?
12:31
that's nice
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what would be the point of using rust on top of c
12:32
the good thing is using rust directly
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it would be the fact that you can code your stuff in Rust instead of C, right? 😄
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https://github.com/japaric/f3 this is a lib someone made
12:34
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looks like even its dependencies are 100% Rust
12:37
nice job
12:37
this is a nice tool to create these libs https://github.com/rust-embedded/svd2rust
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so Rust features inline assembly probably
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there is an asm! macro
12:38
12:39
poggers
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security vs performance gonna be insteresting in future, especially bcs CPUs probably get closer to single threaded performance
12:40
guess a pure rust kernel vs linux would be really nice
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@Deleted User i think we should create the oficial ddnet binaries with some modern CPU features enabled
12:40
like stockfish does
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i think we should use lto and ofast
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hopefully software will finally get less crappy than hardware 😄
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this is how they present it
12:40
top to bottom for most perfomant
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yeah they can defs speedup alot of operations, especially string operations
12:41
but u know
12:41
we'll stuck with gl 1.x forever xd
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guess for the new instructions a new processor architecture would solve it
12:42
then we'd have something like a "new" standard
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i mean c'mon i just want to see if a better CISC processor could give more performance
12:43
x86 can't be it, and ARM is not really CISC(but also not really RISC either anymore :D)
12:45
i guess ARM's single thread performance comes mostly from the fact amd and intel designs x86 with hyperthreading /SMT in mind
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maybe games should find a way to not depend so much on single thread perf
12:45
ECS may do this
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sure, but sync is always overhead
12:45
physically
12:46
but maybe its worth it
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i mean 4-5 threads are common for games
12:46
i bet even ddnet uses more, just bcs the drivers use them internally
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but cpus nowadays have 12
12:46
or more
12:46
i wonder if they use all
12:46
i want to own a threadripper
12:46
even the name is cool
12:46
64 cores ez
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xD
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AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ 3990X Processor Graphics Model Discrete Graphics Card Required

of CPU Cores

64

of Threads

128
12:47
128 threads poggers
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yeah insane
12:47
getting closer to GPU core counts from 15 years ago xD
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Up to 4.3GHz
12:47
with boost
12:47
xd
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yeah but probs only on 2 cores xD
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how many cores does a modern gpu have
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i mean they dont really have cores in that sense
12:48
more like shading units
12:48
but dunno 4-5k
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do modern games do physics simulation inside the gpu?
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dunno
12:48
i think u can do it
12:48
with this
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probs not bcs latency
12:48
but we all know nvidia game physics dont we xd
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u can actually implement a physics engine usinhg compute shaders
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rtx 3090 has 10496 cuda units
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this is probs done in aaa games
12:49
So, I finally released a game that works completely on GPU. It used to hang in early access for a few months, now I fixed all bugs, finished the...
12:50
So, I finally released a game that works completely on GPU
12:50
xdd
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i mean its really cool
12:50
GPUs master race xd
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Checklist

  • [X] Tested the change ingame
  • [ ] Provided screenshots if it is a visual change
  • [ ] Tested in combination with possibly related configuration options
  • [ ] Written a unit test if it works standalone, system.c especially
  • [ ] Considered possible null pointers and out of bounds array indexing
  • [ ] Changed no physics that affect existing maps
  • [ ] Tested the change with [ASan+UBSan or valgrind's memcheck](https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/#using-addresssanitizer--undef...
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Looking at $ddos in #bot-cmds looks like most attacks today had very high outgoing packets per second. Is DDNet used in an amplification attack?
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Scrumplex
Looking at $ddos in #bot-cmds looks like most attacks today had very high outgoing packets per second. Is DDNet used in an amplification attack?
maybe look here https://ddnet.tw/stats/server/ probs better for a specific time range
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hmm just 10 MBps peak isn't really anything usable for an amplification attack (edited)
16:43
so the attackers arent even doing that
16:43
wtf is wrong with them
16:46
on the other hand GER2 had 100MBps peak (edited)
16:49
nvm those are also incoming traffic
16:49
why does the discord bot show outgoing?
16:49
16:50
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mhh yeah strange xd
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 18:39:30Z
@Deleted User: its not only client runtime. Reconnecting to the server fixed the fps too :)
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maybe its a bug in ur system xd
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chillerdragon BOT 2021-07-07 18:41:30Z
must be a linux kernel bug
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yeah lets blame linux
18:42
and intel
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both 3 lines
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you won't convince him to rename without the capital P
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p(P)ulsar
19:43
the capital p mapper huh (edited)
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hussainx3
😚
i generally like to have it a bit different, but probs would move Insane to the stars, minor stuff 😄
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it's simple thing and ,so much better 😦
20:05
but ok
20:05
idk you agree with me or not ww
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i think a better order of the components moving them into new lines would be better
20:06
so yes i generally agree 😄
heartw 1
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ok cool
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@TsFreddie did you tried this one?
21:01
for your srv?
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i got this errors with this way
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Deleted User
i got this errors with this way
nya
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what nya
21:13
what wrong 😄
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nya for fun'
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that doesn't help me 🙂
21:15
but nya if you want 😄
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Deleted User
i got this errors with this way
nya
Exported 424 message(s)