DDraceNetwork - off-topic

DDraceNetwork

DDraceNetwork / off-topic

Any languages allowed

Between 2021-06-09 00:00:00Z and 2021-06-10 00:00:00Z

StiKipeT

Click to see attachment 🖼️

Embedded image

https://youtu.be/cUwVzAYui-Q @Learath2 monke

returns to monke

Tilki Selo

https://youtu.be/cUwVzAYui-Q @Learath2 monke

Based on True story FeelStrongMan

FeelStrongMan

1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP3wxNFnNbA

Battlefield Livestream: Countdown to Reveal Trailer

16:58

when i see the fucking pride flag

teeworlds is literally gay now lol

17:00

after all these years of saying that parts are gay

17:06

jow

So, what's the problem with being gay?

17:13

Everyone is welcome here, just tolerate each other

heartw

4

I don't understand why it is needed

17:20

Like changing the avatar

The fact that you all have adverse reactions to it is precisely why it was changed

17:21

it's obviously still problematic to be openly gay...

17:21

reflect on why it upsets you. turn that around

17:26

it's kind of like a test. does the flag still anger cis white guys? alright, we'll do another pride month next year and see if things change

Why do you specify "white" here

ok it wasn't needed to be honest

17:27

but that's typically the target audience lol

17:28

er, what we talk about in america at least

One thing I don't understand about pride month is why do people think literally everyone needs to support that

should we conditionally support abolishing slavery?

People told me this action asks everyone to support it

should we conditionally support women's rights?

17:31

can't expect everyone to support lgbtq people but it's supposed to remind people it's a problem

17:32

and it's very good at it apparently because it brings all the homophobes out of their echo chambers and into mainstream communication

17:32

I don't know if you were around for the chaos in general the day it was changed, but that's just a single, minor example among other larger examples

@916mate don't call for bans for groups of people here

xD

17:41

the irony

again this "mate" man sheesh

17:44

he do problem everywhere or what

lynn

I don't know if you were around for the chaos in general the day it was changed, but that's just a single, minor example among other larger examples

Yeah I saw some of it and there was a lot of bad and, as I think, wrong words said

17:54

But I just don't want to care about this and this reminder doesn't change anything in my mind or life

17:54

And probably the same is for a lot of other people

not the best attitude to have tbh, even if something doesn't affect you directly, are you not going to support the people it affects?

17:55

imagine if I was a man living in Mexico, and something was happening in Honduras

17:55

and I just said "well, that isn't happening to me, so I shouldn't care about it"

17:56

"also it's about mostly women, so I definitely shouldn't care"

I am not supporting nor going against lgbtq people

great, then you can probably ignore the server icon

17:57

if I was seeing a server with nazi icon and was neither against nor in favor of nazis, I'd probably say nothign

17:57

if I was against nazis, I'd probably annoy the server owners about it

Bomb | DerpDEX | Ambit Finance

I am not supporting nor going against lgbtq people

i really dislike this attitude many people have, by not supporting them you're just inactive in the problem, which indirectly goes against them

17:58

by "being neutral" you're just giving the offenders power lol

(wasn't me removing the message about me)

you can't force people to support gays, the least you can do is keep them neutral by not getting in their face

lol i was about to ask that

I don't see ddnet forcing people to support gays @Ravie

17:59

where did you get that?

I hate being labeled as the cis white guy. It literally speaks against almost everyone on this server and not even close to that amount are against LGBT. It is simply disrespectful to call anyone like that because u put them instantly in the position of the typical LGBT hater

oh i cant force anyone to do anything

lynn

i really dislike this attitude many people have, by not supporting them you're just inactive in the problem, which indirectly goes against them

On the other side, I was living my life without caring about it and now I have to, one more thing to think of. Why do I need it?

if ddnet were forcing people to support it, a lot of people would be out of the server already @Ravie

who said you have to care about it

@heinrich5991 not about ddnet, just responding to lynn who says neutral people are negative in some way

lol life is unpleasant, get used to it

I see @Ravie, sorry

there are a lot of things going on that you can turn a blind eye towards

18:01

complaining that you have to worry about a problem that affects other people is pretty entitled

thinking others have to care about your problem is also entitled tbh

why is it entitled

because it doesnt even affect you but you still are complaining about it

if you have enough problems with your own life you dont need to have others problems too

there are other problems in life than being gay, everyone has his problems

18:02

but I don't expect the society to care about my problems

all you have to do is not hate gay people it's not very hard

so that I already do :)

the messaging is about society creating the problem with gay people

if only everyone could be like that, simply let people be smh

but you said that others have to worry about it

18:03

if i have 1000 problems with my own life i dont need someone elses problems adding up to it

yes, in an ideal world everyone should worry about every issue that affects people, but there's just not enough time in the world to get to it all

18:03

we pick and choose things that we're vocal about, stand for, etc

in an ideal world nobody would care or have to care

but i think whether or not gay is bad is an extremely prolific and easy thing to remedy

18:04

compared to other world issues

18:04

a lot of it is rooted in religion

Knuski

I hate being labeled as the cis white guy. It literally speaks against almost everyone on this server and not even close to that amount are against LGBT. It is simply disrespectful to call anyone like that because u put them instantly in the position of the typical LGBT hater

you're right that "not even close to that amount are against LGBT" and I'm certainly not saying that, but personally that is the group that I have observed most in my life for having this sort of opinion, so I'm sorry that offends you but in all seriousness I didn't intend to imply they are the only problematic group, there are obviously others

18:07

i kinda regret saying it at all at this point but, it was what i observed

willing to own up to that as a mistake at this point, especially since i dont know anything about other parts of the world

gays are our brothers lol

I would first care about your own american goverment practicing proxy wars and caring batshit about lifes of people who are on the other side of the planet and die due to ur own self proclaimed world pacifism

20:06

The irony is rich on muricans

20:06

So fcking entitled (edited)

20:06

Virtue signaling at its best

not sure if assuming i don't care about that is better or worse than my assumption from before

the problem is not about being gay i think, just the "LGBT" community (not everyone, but somepeople) who annoyed everyone and being "extremist" who make that people hate them

shiro

he do problem everywhere or what

what

20:20

lgbtq = gay

no shit sherlock

shiro = gay

thanks didnt know

np

916mate

shiro = gay

actually no

I muted you now @916mate

monkaS

This is a really hard topic, our brain tricks us by making it hard to not generate some sort of identity or social relationship, which makes us living in bubbles of our own. And it's hard to accept that this all only happens in our brain, but it does, so freeing from that could be a way to archiving being more tollerant. It's just like, when you are in a situation and get mad, but then 2 days later you have to laugh about how useless it was Only problem is, that all ppl would have todo this at the same time to garantuee the freedomness of a single person. So wake me up in 2000 years to see how far we got ^^

assuming we make cryosleep work

So wake me up in 2000 years to see how far we got ^^ if u're alive justatest

justatest

related to my comment lol

didnt understand at first bcs my english actually sucks

20:25

but ye

o mb

Honestly we are all behaving just the same. Reverse roles and symbols and people would try to "cancel" it and maybe I would say "just ignore it" I'm trying to swallow the neutral pill now Because this is all useless anyway. It's not like anyone is going to change their mind lol

ignoring nazis did not make them go away in '33

20:37

you probably also discussed that to death in school

What do you mean?

"It's not like anyone is going to change their mind" in that case i suppose there should be just as many nazis as there were during the holocaust? or what about those who kept slaves? did they really never change their mind? (edited)

20:43

sure it's an extreme example, but it's the same mindset

the problem is

I meant right now here nobody is going to change their mind.

you are both not wrong

20:43

its the "next" generation

20:43

that might have solved the issue with that

20:43

its a long time process

Brainwashing?

no

20:44

understanding that a other human is just a human like you

for what it's worth this is a much better conversation than what was happening previously, which is at least a start

but yes in theory everyone can change, but imo thats the main problem, your brain wants social identity I've seen this so many times in life:

The one friend that does everything just to be part of your clique
The one guy from the clique you don't like, that is actually pretty cool, and you wonder what he likes about the others stuff like this

Idk I just realized there are many similarities between both extremes. It's literally just reversed. It's not my personal mission to convince you of my "truth" But the same goes for you.

but is tollerance not the mid?

20:50

not the other extreme

20:50

left extremists might want you to be a person you are not, right extremists might just exclude the persons

I think I have seen both reactions on both sides

not impossible

20:52

thats bcs there isnt really left or right

20:52

we are way too complex

20:52

with 18 i thought i saw all kinds of ppl

20:52

now i know im wrong

20:53

and its not even about politics

Yeah. You can't just call everyone with the"wrong" opinion stupid. There are smart and dumb people on both sides. You can reach the same conclusion in many ways. Gotta ask yourself what your opinion is based on

yes i agree with that, in my experience its like i said before, one goal to archive freeing from this is to accept that this only happens in our brain, bcs there wasnt a single person yet that survived without it. But i also dont want to be naive, it wont work just bcs i might do it

I think I'm gonna concentrate more on my personal life bcs honestly, most people around me are okay irl. Internet makes it look much worse I think

hm. the concept "both sides" is wrong, I think

20:59

there are a lot more opinions than 2

yes but i think i understand what he tries to say

20:59

acutally that even is a concept of tollerance

I think he's referring to "left wing" and "right wing", but there's a lot more. e.g. people advocating for the environment, etc.

heinrich5991

there are a lot more opinions than 2

Yes for sure but I wanted to get the point across.

and I don't think "all sides are the same"

21:01

I don't think in "environtalism" the same amount of people are murdered as from "right wing" people

21:03

so I do think there are some camps that are more dangerous than others

21:03

"everything is the same" is wrong IMO and harmful

I don't get it. I just wanted to say that the same kind of people can reach many different conclusions and they would not be necessarily wrong

hm, maybe I misunderstood you

21:04

I haven't read too closely, sorry

interesting yeah, that just shows how complex this is, bcs you could probably combine all combinations of sorts of possible orientations to different ppl. I bet there are ppl that hate all humans bcs we are destroying our nature. Guess its also bound alot to our emotions and experience in certain situations. If all your friends say lets beat these ppl there they insulted the forest it might not trigger as much as saying, these ppl are stealing our jobs... smth like that

im always curious about the justification of not supporting gay/trans people, besides religious reasons

21:10

idk it just doesnt make sense to me

why is religion a reason? xd

21:11

religions are actually an idea for moral

well a lot of conservative christians believe that being gay goes against the bible

bible is nothing special

but there are also a lot that don't acknowledge that part of the bible, which is even more confusing to me lol

its made by alot of ppl

21:11

its not made by jesus god or whatever they believe in

Christianity just kind of amazes me

21:12

i dont get how anyone thinks it holds up at all in modern times

yes it is strange, but bcs you weren't born into it, or might not experienced it

i was born into it

21:12

my family is christian

What you said but reversed. See?

i think ppl who follow voluntarily religion do so for fear of the nothingness of death

religion is definitely a spot where might can be abused easily

more of purpose in life

there are probably a lot more reasons @Ryozuki

21:13

e.g. simply community

i guess

i dont get how you can compare being gay to the massive holes in christian ideals @Im 'corneum

bcs especially in the past most ppl believe what the church said

it's not just "ez reverse it"

21:14

modern day christians have to say shit like "well not that part" about like a ton of text in the bible these days

I'm not referring to the idea but to the "not understanding" part

ah, so you're saying that the way that they do not understand my views is the same way that i do not understand them

21:15

or same difficulty maybe (edited)

heinrich5991

e.g. simply community

imo this is one of the biggest ones

21:16

i will admit it's similar to lgbt, in the way that there is an attraction to the community part of it

21:17

which sometimes results in people who are cishet that get really confused about gender/sexuality cus they thought they were in it or are still not sure

yeah but religion is more like:

We live bcs we have a creator and he gave us a "reason" or chance or whatever

Everything that builds up on this might be abusable, and then there come in alot of factors again

lynn

ah, so you're saying that the way that they do not understand my views is the same way that i do not understand them

Yeah. And the same way you don't want to be made fun of I also don't want that

21:18

But I know if I just told everyone what I believe here I would definitely get mocked

possible yes, just like the opposite

21:19

(in your words) XD

do you agree that there are some beliefs that should not be accepted? @Im 'corneum

Hard question.

21:20

I can't speak for everyone

really? I thought it'd be simple to generate an opinion that should not be accepted

21:20

e.g. @Im 'corneum is a bad person and deserves to get hanged.

21:20

and I'm willing to follow through on that belief

21:20

I'd call that an unacceptable opinion

I think being proud of what you believe in is important. Show it to the world to be debated, and stand on the things that you believe are true. I think through this eventually the most humanistic ideas will prevail and given enough time, our ideologies will converge on the most moral ones

21:21

I think hiding what you believe is detrimental, no matter what you believe or what you think people will react with

depends on the culture around you @lynn

How should I know what is most considerate of the world when half the world hides their ideas from me?

Ofc I would fight it if it came that far. But until then it's just a fact that humans are smart and I trust that most of them come to their conclusions in a way that makes alot of sense to them (edited)

I can't make guesses

if you'll get negative consequences for sharing your opinion, it doesn't seem like it's a good idea to share it

heinrich5991

if you'll get negative consequences for sharing your opinion, it doesn't seem like it's a good idea to share it

I have been debated, belittled, and threatened for my beliefs. but i still openly discuss them

21:22

i don't think this is a valid excuse most of the time

Since we are so philosophical today and I'm the math mystic in this chat, change my mind: Math is everything, and its endless We also don't have a free will, but just like we can't calculate the whole world without taking the whole world, everything can't calculate everything, but everything happens, bcs it's already certain that it happens

your opinion is one of the more accepted ones in society though

21:23

talking openly about it while being in russia doesn't seem like a good idea

true, but if I'm talking about it openly there is always that chance

21:24

all it takes is one person too, I don't see a difference (especially online) between 1 person angry with me and 10

@Deleted User may I suggest quantum mechanics? it says that it's impossible to measure the world exactly, it also postulates randomness

but only from point of our universe

Deleted User

Since we are so philosophical today and I'm the math mystic in this chat, change my mind: Math is everything, and its endless We also don't have a free will, but just like we can't calculate the whole world without taking the whole world, everything can't calculate everything, but everything happens, bcs it's already certain that it happens

yes i think ultimately the world is deterministic but we are not sophisticated enough in our methodologies to prove it

maybe its just something that happens outside of our scope

21:25

and isnt really undeterministic

probably will never happen also, but who knows

now that sounds a lot like stuff you cannot prove/disprove

that is true

I don't like talking about stuff that's just "fantasy"

heinrich5991

I don't like talking about stuff that's just "fantasy"

it's more just a thought exercise xD

21:26

not to be taken too seriously i guess

but for me "nothing" is the opposite of "something" so if there e.g. is a god, it exists and always did, bcs he couldn't come out of nothing So a god would just shift the problem away from humans, it doesnt answer it (edited)

Im 'corneum

Ofc I would fight it if it came that far. But until then it's just a fact that humans are smart and I trust that most of them come to their conclusions in a way that makes alot of sense to them (edited)

btw i respect your opinions on this, and im happy to hear you've taken a more neutral stance on things

and that's why i prefer to just think, that this whole concept is just our brain trying to find a reason for us, why we exist

it's at least better than assuming you were homophobic lol

I didn't change much of my opinions but I will try to act neutral because as I said earlier I don't see it as my personal mission to change your mind

21:29

Who am I to question you. So to say.

also "Ofc I would fight it if it came that far." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Africa much of africa outlaws homosexuality

LGBT rights in Africa

With the exception of South Africa and Cape Verde, lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) rights in Africa are limited in comparison to Western Europe and much of the Americas and Oceania. Out of the 54 states recognised by the United Nations or African Union or both, the International Gay and Lesbian Association stated in 2015 that homo...

21:30

i dont think you meant literally "fight" it, but just to show this lol

I was referring to Heinrich's example of hanging me

isn't life in prison or execution also bad though?

Idk what are you saying? If I find it okay what they do against gays? No

more about your response to it. i mean i dont claim im doing anything about it, but at least certainly i would not describe myself as "neutral" about this

21:33

and the fact that you said "no" leads me to believe you're less neutral than you believe

21:34

if your commitment to support ends with "they just shouldnt be jailed because of it" i think that's good enough for now

21:34

for anyone in this server really

I don't think it's right to kill people. But they somehow think it's okay and they are not all magically stupid (edited)

right there's a complicated culture probably behind it

Would be much easier to make fun of it. Right?

or possibly not culture, but political issues

21:35

make fun of being gay?

Make fun of everything I don't agree with

21:36

I'm sarcastic

xd

21:36

i was gonna say no one should, only debate it

21:38

but if everyone's attitude towards the icon (for those who are in slight support like yourself or completely neutral) chose to think "the icon didn't change because of me, it changed because maybe there are real homophobes in here that should be scrutinized" then we wouldn't have annoying mob reactions like that

21:38

it would just be like "ok, i know why this is here, but it doesnt matter to me" and there wouldn't be much of a reason to discuss it (unless you heavily support lgbt rights / heavily reject it) (edited)

Yes

21:40

So I overreacted because I saw the symbol of my childhood and youth paired with something I don't like and agree with

i of course am biased and i like having discussion with neutral folks anyway but, i rest my case xD

21:40

no that makes sense

Deleted User

Since we are so philosophical today and I'm the math mystic in this chat, change my mind: Math is everything, and its endless We also don't have a free will, but just like we can't calculate the whole world without taking the whole world, everything can't calculate everything, but everything happens, bcs it's already certain that it happens

math is not complete, and it cannot proof its consistency and its also not decidable (halting problem)

be gay be happy

Image attachment

Ryozuki

math is not complete, and it cannot proof its consistency and its also not decidable (halting problem)

proof for anything? just as less as i can proof it probably

i actually believe that everything we do is the consequence of a previous whole state of all particles

22:09

e.g its all already defined

that means nothing is timeless?

it makes sense from a programmers mind

22:10

xd

or time generally exists

i think we are going too far

22:10

monkalaugh

22:10

nothin exists

Deleted User

proof for anything? just as less as i can proof it probably

the stuff ryozuki said was actually proven

22:10

it's called "gödel's incompleteness theorem"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems

G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems

22:11

if u like videos i learned it from this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeQX2HjkcNo

Math Has a Fatal Flaw

22:11

rly well explained tbh

22:11

specially the peano arithmetic

i dont see what this proves in the context of what i said

Ryozuki

math is not complete, and it cannot proof its consistency and its also not decidable (halting problem)

to me it sounded like you're asking for a proof of @Ryozuki's statement

i actually more meant it like proof that this disproves me

ok someone gimme a quick rundown of what happened here

22:18

greenthing

@Ryozuki the video made an easily fixable mistake on the "there are more real numbers between 0 and 1 than natural numbers"

there are numbers between 0 and 1 with more than one decimal expansion

22:22

e.g. 0.1999999… and 0.2000000…

22:23

so differing in at least one digit from all other numbers in the list doesn't suffice

22:25

hm. maybe they did consider it

22:25

because they want to "roll back" a 9 to an 8 (edited)

22:26

nvm me ^^

Exported 280 message(s)