DDraceNetwork - off-topic

DDraceNetwork

DDraceNetwork / off-topic

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Between 2021-04-14 00:00:00Z and 2021-04-15 00:00:00Z

feed me

00:22

poggers

marry me

TsFreddie

marry me

no

no u

TsFreddie

marry me

wrong gender, sorry

@Learath2 found this on leddit

Image attachment

10s I would accept wholeheartedly

10:20

before I rooted out systemd from my system it just wouldn't halt at all

10:20

I had to halt it by hand using sysrq

DefaultTimeoutStopSec=2s

Average systemd fan: iT wOrKS oUT oF tHe B0x fOr EVeRyOne

it works out of the box for me

In my sample size of n=1 OpenRC works out of the box for me, and so does sysvinit and minit

10:42

Heck in this sample set systemd is the only init system that actually managed to break

why are so many people so religious about their init choices? (edited)

13:22

i mean systemd works very well for me. systemd timers are really nice. And networkd does it's job fairly well for me.

13:22

To make it work even better I use systemd services wherever possible so it's always aware whats running and whats not. That way there are next to no "waiting for process X to shutdown" as there are no shadow dependencies

13:24

I do think though that distros should lower the default kill timeout of systemd for desktop users. I mean you don't want to kill your database server because it took longer than 10 secs to shutdown. But I don't care if Steam refuses to exit

The best way to replace stuff like that is probably adding a compability layer just like XWayland for wayland to replace X if thats stable, the packets can slowly remove their X dependency or in this case systemd. But generally i think, if the facts speak for the other package, then it should used in some future

justatest

15:34

I feel dumb reading this conv

Scrumplex

i mean systemd works very well for me. systemd timers are really nice. And networkd does it's job fairly well for me.

I mean openrc works very well for me, cron has been around for a decade and is really nice. wpa-supplicant and dhclient already did these jobs very well and so did networkmanager before it got infected by systemd if you are a gui guy.

15:57

Replacing every function of an OS with one monolithic project is not only completely against the unix mentality, it also heavily undermines the soul of FOSS. Even if you don’t give a shit about either it’s still a horrible idea both maintenance and security-wise (edited)

Scrumplex

why are so many people so religious about their init choices? (edited)

I’m not religious about my choice of init system, I’m mostly on a crusade against projects such as systemd, gnome and whatever else the “free”desktop foundation shills for. I honestly don’t care if you use upstart or openrc or sysvinit or write your own. I’m against the bloated overreaching programs we willingly put into our computers giving up more and more of our freedoms

16:01

I actually wouldn’t even give a shit what you do with your freedom honestly, but it’s so poisonous that’s it’s destroying the entire ecosystem. When it starts to affect me is when I start to mind very much

Learath2

Replacing every function of an OS with one monolithic project is not only completely against the unix mentality, it also heavily undermines the soul of FOSS. Even if you don’t give a shit about either it’s still a horrible idea both maintenance and security-wise (edited)

but you don't have to use all the components of systemd. If you just look at what's enabled by default, you only get an init and a cron replacement. Use whatever network manager you like, use whatever dns resolver you like yada yada yada. So I don't understand how having one project that has solutions for all these problems is necessarily a bad thing

16:33

I mean you can use systemd-networkd, skip resolved entirely and use your another resolver (edited)

You obviously never tried to use pieces of systemd on their own

Learath2

You obviously never tried to use pieces of systemd on their own

well yeah. all of it needs systemd core and journald

16:34

That's valid criticism (edited)

16:34

But systemd does stuff different to other solutions which kind of justifies that (edited)

Did you know you cant even boot your computer without sytemd-udev, so lucky that the gentoo project took up maintaining evdev

Learath2

Did you know you cant even boot your computer without sytemd-udev, so lucky that the gentoo project took up maintaining evdev

Well udev itself is not really a systemd invention

Scrumplex

But systemd does stuff different to other solutions which kind of justifies that (edited)

This is the justification they use to replace your most used stuff one by one, then they tell you it’s optional then one day it’s not

systemd-udevd was just the first real maintained implementation

When systemd took on maintaining udev they promised they wouldnt attach it to systemd

16:35

Look how that turned out

Learath2

This is the justification they use to replace your most used stuff one by one, then they tell you it’s optional then one day it’s not

I dunno about that. I mean it's possible, but at it's core it's still a FOSS project. So if a majority of the userbase doesn't like the direction it can be forked or turned around upstream

Learath2

When systemd took on maintaining udev they promised they wouldnt attach it to systemd

you make it sound like a conspiracy

Scrumplex

I dunno about that. I mean it's possible, but at it's core it's still a FOSS project. So if a majority of the userbase doesn't like the direction it can be forked or turned around upstream

That’s how they fool you, you really think one could fork any part of systemd and have any success with it? The distro people gave up our and their freedoms in exchange for easier maintainance

@Learath2 Poetttering is not the only one working on systemd. There are enough contributors not sponsored by Red Hat. (edited)

Journalctl introduces a binary logging format, what for? Syslog worked for decades, I still run rsyslog completely fine

16:38

Every part of systemd reeks of lock-in, they are taking the vilest corporate strategies we’ve ever seen and just utilizing them one by one

Learath2

Journalctl introduces a binary logging format, what for? Syslog worked for decades, I still run rsyslog completely fine

Text is not the best solution for everything. That's why we need stuff like JSON to store data as text. But why go the extra mile and use JSON for an object-based logging system, which adds further complexity? Just go with binary I guesss (edited)

16:40

As long as the tools needed to read the files are widely available I don't really mind (edited)

E.g. they took a page out of microsofts playbook, they embraced a technology, they extended it with “proprietary capabilities”, they then they extinguished the project

16:41

Same with cgroups, these people had the audacity to post on the kernel mailing list asking for parts of systemd to be integrated with the kernel. Thankfully Linus is not completely insane

I dunno. To each their own. systemd solves more problems than it creates for me and that's why I prefer it for most use cases (edited)

Systemd solves exactly 0 new problems

16:42

It’s just a convenient package for distro maintainers that is using it’s position as the most widely used to absorb more and more

Scrumplex

Text is not the best solution for everything. That's why we need stuff like JSON to store data as text. But why go the extra mile and use JSON for an object-based logging system, which adds further complexity? Just go with binary I guesss (edited)

Json is still human readable is an extremely great reason to use it. Or use sqlite3 which is extremely stable and used by everyone, yet they created their own

sqlite has bad licensing tho

16:44

bad as in, no one can contribute (edited)

Scrumplex

but you don't have to use all the components of systemd. If you just look at what's enabled by default, you only get an init and a cron replacement. Use whatever network manager you like, use whatever dns resolver you like yada yada yada. So I don't understand how having one project that has solutions for all these problems is necessarily a bad thing

What is bad about all these being one project is tight integration, as things become more tightly integrated you lose the ability to swap parts. This will lead to an ecosystem where all the essential software needed to create a distro is created under one ideology in one repository, with a codebase so massive noone even understands. People claim to understand systemd services, there are some options (that are not even documented btw) that I’d bet you never even heard of unless you are a systemd developer

Scrumplex

bad as in, no one can contribute (edited)

There are many solutions to this problem, sqlite is one that came to mind but the actual solution is to leave logging to a dedicated logger

16:49

If you want to do sqlite you do sqlite, if I want text I do text

16:50

That’s the unix philosophy, do one thing and do it well. Rsyslog is a logger that does text logging only and it does it well

Since when is the UNIX philosophy the only good way of developing software? I mean I get it and it makes total sense for command line applications. But it already stops at graphical applications. I mean the kernel doesn't even follow the UNIX philosophy as it's monolithic. Clearly no one complains about that

16:52

I mean except for command line applications, how many other applications follow the UNIX philosophy (edited)

16:53

90% of the web is monolithic, same with most GUI applications

The kernel is most definitely not overreaching at all, but even that has been contested and microkernel architectures are actually getting much more popular

16:53

The web is not monolithic at all, nginx is a web server it handles http, you don’t see it trying to interpret php do you?

well yeah the software stack itself might not be monolithic. But as a user you don't really get the benefits of that, do you? (edited)

16:55

I mean I can't pipe my duckduckgo search results for "pie" into my Nextcloud and download all the images

The unix philosophy is a means to an end, the goal is to have small replaceable parts so we can all create the systems we want

16:55

If you don’t like the unix philosophy propose your own that achieves the same goal and we’ll all develop like that

How should that work with a graphical application? GTK is monolithic, Qt is monolithic

Scrumplex

How should that work with a graphical application? GTK is monolithic, Qt is monolithic

And I don’t like either

Learath2

If you don’t like the unix philosophy propose your own that achieves the same goal and we’ll all develop like that

well there are people way smarter than me that should do that. I just think that the UNIX philosophy made sense in it's context. But I don't think it can be applied to everything

It definitely doesn’t apply well to gui applications. But it definitely does to pieces of an OS as we’ve seen for what 2-3 decades now? The stack that people are currently saying doesn’t work well has powered the internet for as long as it existed

systemd's purpose is to manage your system. And it does that well. That way it still fits into the UNIX philosophy. At the end it's all a matter of definition. You might dislike systemd's role in the Linux space but there are many, less vocal, people out there who really enjoy managing their systems with it

Did sysvinit have it’s problems, YES. Is replacing it and the entirety of the software stack with a piece of software from a single vendor the solution, NO

If you want to use OpenRC or Runit or whatever, then sure. I don't mind. I just dislike how people talk about a FOSS project, as if it was the reincarnation of Steve Ballmer (edited)

You will never convince me that any part of systemd fits any definition of unix philosophy. It doesn’t do one thing by any sane definition of thing. Managing a system has many tasks, bundling them together is a bad faith argument.

17:00

I could say windows fits the unix philosophy because it’s one thing is to be an OS

Scrumplex

If you want to use OpenRC or Runit or whatever, then sure. I don't mind. I just dislike how people talk about a FOSS project, as if it was the reincarnation of Steve Ballmer (edited)

It’s much worse than Ballmer, Ballmer atleast was very clear about it’s goal to murder this idea of open source software. If there is one thing I hate more than corporate people is people lying through their teeth

I mean as I said. You can just use systemd as your /usr/bin/init and be done with it. The only thing it brings with is a cron-replacement, that actually does the job more reliably than cron.

Scrumplex

I mean as I said. You can just use systemd as your /usr/bin/init and be done with it. The only thing it brings with is a cron-replacement, that actually does the job more reliably than cron.

Actually, it also brings with it journalctl and udev which will pull in dbus

If you dont want journald, just change line 19 in /etc/systemd/system.conf to LogTarget=syslog and be done with it

17:05

Get rid of udevd with an alternative and that's gone too: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Init#Replacing_udev

17:06

And that's it. Now you got systemd only as your init, your syslog daemon of your choice and eudev or whatever.

So let me get this right, you are arguing that if I disable everything that I hate about systemd I’ll get something acceptable?

heck create your own package of systemd, that only packages the init. That way you don't event get the "bloat" on your hard disk

Learath2

So let me get this right, you are arguing that if I disable everything that I hate about systemd I’ll get something acceptable?

Well I assume that, as it can all be configured. It's not like /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-udevd is hardcoded into systemd's binary

17:09

it's just another service

I mean this is insane. I can also recompile emacs and remove all the bloat yes

17:10

Or I can also configure windows to launch into a cmd instead of the gui

TsFreddie

I feel dumb reading this conv

Don't worry. It's just Linux users arguing about their favourite software and environment. We all love each other. We just don't like the clothing choices of others

This is also completely beside my point, I still have alternatives that satisfy me

17:11

I don’t need to gut systemd

17:11

It’s absolutely destroying the ecosystem, try to install debian without systemd, or gnome without systemd.

17:11

Every single damn package will try to pull in libsystemd

Learath2

Or I can also configure windows to launch into a cmd instead of the gui

it's a matter of defaults. Distros decide what the default is. systemd upstream's defaults are only for development. There was a controversy about Google DNS being the fallback in resolved. The reason for that was, that it is just the default for developers. At the end it's the package maintainer's choice

In a couple years people will get bored of swimming against the current and we’ll be left with a single choice systemd

17:13

Then they will show us all how great tight integration is by tying all of it in a nice neat irreplaceable blackbox with a billion LoC. Impossible to audit, impossible to maintain

17:14

Then we’ll get a systemd foundation with cute donations from tech giants funding the dozens of developers needed to keep this sludge working

17:14

I know you’ll cry conspiracy, but it’s unavoidable. Those with capital will always do anything to make their sphere of influence bigger

As with any systemd argument this went on for very long. I would probably like to end it here, by saying that it fulfils my use case, as does OpenRC for your use case. (edited)

Hey I’m one of the few people remaining that cares about this stuff, so in a generation we’ll be in monolithic blackbox dreamland anyway, so no point in discussing this stuff. You’ll get what you want, I’ll die knowing I did my best to convince people this is a horrible idea

Scrumplex

As with any systemd argument this went on for very long. I would probably like to end it here, by saying that it fulfils my use case, as does OpenRC for your use case. (edited)

Sure, I’d just like to add that atleast I’m not shoving my own choice down peoples throats by the way of backroom influencing and corporate money

17:22

Funny how ryozuki didn’t show up for this one, he loves to defend systemd’s honor

I dunno. I always feel pissed off after internet arguments. I guess it's somewhat religious for me too

I will migrate to gentoo soon and try a systemd alternative PES_ElonMusk

PES_ElonMusk

17:34

Just need mangadex to be up again to read manga while compiling coffee

coffee

gentoo

power bills go brr

I’ve been reading Epictetus’ Discourses, stoicism really has some answers to not feel pissed after any argument

Learath2

Hey I’m one of the few people remaining that cares about this stuff, so in a generation we’ll be in monolithic blackbox dreamland anyway, so no point in discussing this stuff. You’ll get what you want, I’ll die knowing I did my best to convince people this is a horrible idea

So long as linus doesnt merge systemd into the kernel i think one can always avoid it

17:35

I actually dont love to defend systemd, i just like teasing u @Learath2

17:35

monkalaugh

Ryozuki

So long as linus doesnt merge systemd into the kernel i think one can always avoid it

I’m sure if the capital so desires linus can easily be moved out of linux

My linux religion is using a non normie distro with a twm and a anime bg + rust tools wherever you can

Just need to trigger the guy a bit and cancel him, he is already way too edgy. With their infinite pockets getting someone more amicable on top of the linux foundation isn’t too hard

Join my religion today

17:37

greenthing

Ryozuki

My linux religion is using a non normie distro with a twm and a anime bg + rust tools wherever you can

GNU coreutils is bloat i use Rust reimplementations /s

Ye

17:37

https://github.com/uutils/coreutils

uutils/coreutils

Cross-platform Rust rewrite of the GNU coreutils. Contribute to uutils/coreutils development by creating an account on GitHub.

I’ve actually spent some time looking at coreutils and they are indeed not the leanest things out there

17:38

There is much to learn from how bsds implement their libcs and coreutils

Learath2

I’ve actually spent some time looking at coreutils and they are indeed not the leanest things out there

but did you know GNU's implementation of yes is the fastest around?

17:38

https://www.reddit.com/r/unix/comments/6gxduc/how_is_gnu_yes_so_fast/ (edited)

r/unix - How is GNU yes so fast?

1,284 votes and 241 comments so far on Reddit

I wonder if gentoo lets me use this coreutils with ease

Ryozuki

I wonder if gentoo lets me use this coreutils with ease

Sure

I mean why wouldn't you want multiple gigabits of y\n per second

It’s a little annoying to replace coreutils iirc, but I did have it working with busybox

@Learath2 i wonder how hard is it to replace my root partition from arch to gentoo, it is inside lvm on luks

17:48

And i have a separste home volume (lvm)

17:48

xd

17:49

Luks -> lvm -> (root, home, swap)

17:49

coffee

nice discussion

Can be an interesting thing to do

Ryozuki

@Learath2 i wonder how hard is it to replace my root partition from arch to gentoo, it is inside lvm on luks

Shouldn’t be too hard, I’ve done this a couple times

Oh ans boot is outside unencrypted iirc

That’s even better

i think it's not possible to get rid of systemd just like it's not possible to get rid of GNU stuff because they both provide neat features that simply don't exist in their alternatives

17:54

some example: journalctl -u ssh -u lighttpd -u something -p info --since yesterday --until today i just don't want to go back syslog

Ryozuki

Oh ans boot is outside unencrypted iirc

Tho I suggest you try an install on a VM, gentoo setup is a little more involved than just any distro. It’s about the same time for me but I install debian with debootstrap aswell so I’m used to installing like this

Comrade

some example: journalctl -u ssh -u lighttpd -u something -p info --since yesterday --until today i just don't want to go back syslog

Sure, but nothing is stopping people from making something like this and just plugging it as the system logger in a traditional unix

17:55

Fwiw, I even had scripts that accomplished this same thing using text logs but I can see how that’s not a good solution for everyone

you even get pretty colored output with journalctl

journalctl is very slow for me. idk if that's because of my choice of file system

yes, it's slow when it gets really huge

@heinrich5991 check perf to see what’s slowing it?

haven't used perf yet, I guess I should learn it. so much stuff I don't know yet ^^

Comrade

you even get pretty colored output with journalctl

This is how they reel you in, pretty things are dangerous

TIL ls is dangerous

Learath2

This is how they reel you in, pretty things are dangerous

yes, but people just accept that because it's better for them

Discord is one huge example of a pretty-trap

ah yes, you're right

17:59

Electron trap

18:00

but web version is just fine

They only provide 2 new things in the messaging space, free hosting and a cute slick ui

Comrade

yes, but people just accept that because it's better for them

Is prettiness really “better”? It’s certainly nicer to look at, but does it really get you any benefits?

Learath2

This is how they reel you in, pretty things are dangerous

exa is not dangerous, in fact its safer than ls

18:02

and prettier

18:02

yoo

I personally just discard UI when deciding on software. (Mind you not UX) (edited)

https://github.com/ogham/exa

A modern replacement for ‘ls’. Contribute to ogham/exa development by creating an account on GitHub.

18:02

PepeA

Ryozuki

exa is not dangerous, in fact its safer than ls

For me the only important part of this is that it’s safer

18:03

Just saying prettiness can often be a big distraction when it comes to choosing software

@Learath2 https://fasterthanli.me/articles/i-want-off-mr-golangs-wild-ride

I want off Mr. Golang's Wild Ride - fasterthanli.me

My honeymoon with the Go language is extremely over. This article is going to have a different tone from what I've been posting the past year - it's a proper rant. And I alw...

18:04

i recommend you read this rly good blog post

18:04

it tells why rust did paths the right way

18:04

and how golang did such an awfull job

I used a bit of go, it wasnt that bad

18:04

I’ll read about it

i also recommend this blogger in general

18:05

he writes rly well made posts

Okay, I was too busy to cook today and I need to order food, what do I get?

learath always brings food when i talk about rust

18:06

pepehands

Sorry I’m starving, we can talk about rust later

18:06

I can even tell you some things I don’t like about it and you can call me a retard

18:06

Good times

PepeA

18:07

Image attachment

Learath2

Is prettiness really “better”? It’s certainly nicer to look at, but does it really get you any benefits?

well, it's usually not only about prettiness, but also about a lot of little details that make it just better (edited)

18:07

especially in systemd case

Comrade

well, it's usually not only about prettiness, but also about a lot of little details that make it just better (edited)

I'll be honest with you here, there was one single thing I liked about the 1 year of torture I've had with systemd

18:09

How well it worked within an initramfs

Image attachment

18:11

Image attachment

18:11

PepeA

18:11

golang

18:11

PepeA

Learath2

How well it worked within an initramfs

that's really the only thing?

18:12

you don't like its unified and simple syntax of all config files? or systemd-analyze? systemctl list-dependencies? systemctl list-timers?

18:12

so many lovely things

18:13

no wonder all mainstream distros just accept it even though it comes from suspicious RedHat

(edited)

Comrade

you don't like its unified and simple syntax of all config files? or systemd-analyze? systemctl list-dependencies? systemctl list-timers?

simple syntax at the cost of not actually understanding anything about how your boot sequence works

well, it got pretty complex, that's true

rc-status and just looking at the run levels gives me all the information I've ever needed anyway, and for list-timers we've had crontab -e since forever

Learath2

rc-status and just looking at the run levels gives me all the information I've ever needed anyway, and for list-timers we've had crontab -e since forever

list-timers does more than crontab -e though. Like seeing when the timer was last executed and when it will be next

1

Comrade

no wonder all mainstream distros just accept it even though it comes from suspicious RedHat

(edited)

All mainstream distros use it because it's easier to maintain when everyone and their mothers ship systemd services now. Using redhat and canonicals influence they made it pretty much impossible to have a distro that doesn't use systemd

Scrumplex

list-timers does more than crontab -e though. Like seeing when the timer was last executed and when it will be next

I'll let you in on a huge secret, my cron daemon can log if you can believe that

Learath2

I'll let you in on a huge secret, my cron daemon can log if you can believe that

does it support journald? /s

happy

1

you know funnily enough it does because they didn't go out of their way to change how logging is done in unix

I use both cron and systemd

18:38

But I prefer to create corresponding files in /etc/cron.d

18:38

Makes it less convoluted than filling a single file with many different things like with crontab -e

sure, either works, I even have user crons

18:40

user cron folders too even

18:40

cutting edge technology

Btw. What DE/WM are you all using. I am on Plasma since like forever and after I switched to Wayland a while back I can't stop looking at Sway

Okay, would you believe me I knew you used wayland the second we started speaking?

i never used systemd timers

18:41

crontab

PepeA

Learath2

Okay, would you believe me I knew you used wayland the second we started speaking?

tbh. no

my crontab sends me emails encrypted with gpg

I use i3 on laptop and bspwm on my desktop on just good old X

Btw. ddnet on Steam: Wayland, when (edited)

One day we'll hopefully get something better than X

18:42

They really should take a look at how macOS is doing things, it's actually very well engineered

last time i used wayland it was locked at 60fps and sucks when u have a 144hz monitor

I don't use wayland btw, if you want to adjust your heuristics

Ryozuki

last time i used wayland it was locked at 60fps and sucks when u have a 144hz monitor

which wayland? Wayland is just a protocol.

18:43

Wayland, the protocol, support mixed refresh rate

18:43

So does KWin/Wayland (edited)

18:43

(and also wlroots and GNOME probably) (edited)

iirc kde and gnome sucked, openbox got it right

18:43

but that was around 2018

18:43

xd

well there are a handful of implementations of wayland, only one of them usable

Learath2

well there are a handful of implementations of wayland, only one of them usable

wlroots and GNOME are pretty usable.

18:44

KWin is 70% there

18:44

Works for my day-to-day use

kwin already loses interest for me cuz it has win in its name

Learath2

Okay, would you believe me I knew you used wayland the second we started speaking?

how

thats a nono

18:44

BASED

lets use tty. windows bad

Scrumplex

how

idk, I can usually smell it on people

i3 best

18:44

soon ill make my own twm in rust

the i3 WINDOW manager?

18:45

tiling WINDOW manager?

It's just a feeling but maybe the way you speak? you sound like you'd enjoy shiny new stuff like wayland

Learath2

idk, I can usually smell it on people

I mean I am fairly active around there. (Various bug trackers, PRs/MRs here and there). I thought you have seen me sometime somewhere

rly?

18:45

first time i see you yoo

yoo

Learath2

It's just a feeling but maybe the way you speak? you sound like you'd enjoy shiny new stuff like wayland

I also use PipeWire btw

doesn't have network audio yet, right?

Ryozuki

first time i see you yoo

yoo

feelsbadman

with cron you can add new tasks easily because it's simple, but simplicity is not win-win always again, systemd timers give you some additional neat features that cron doesn't have, for example: https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.timer.html#RandomizedDelaySec=

Nah. I am not like an active contributor. I am just following various stuff around Wayland

u can do that with cron im sure

I mean SteamVR works on Wayland (as long as you use unmerged patches)

sleep $[RANDOM\%90]m ;

Ryozuki

u can do that with cron im sure

yes, with sleep $RANDOM, but that's....

heinrich5991

doesn't have network audio yet, right?

I mean you can probably do something with JACK in that corner

perl -le 'sleep rand 9000'

PipeWire implements JACK and PulseAudio

@Ryozuki didn't you get the memo? unless it's builtin it's SHIT

btw if u ever want to get a quick http server in any folder just do python -m http.server

yes

1

18:47

best trick known

18:48

yoo

I wish they would just put systemd-timers into the kernel, honestly really want ring0 access in my timers and builtin support for XDP

before i used php -S localhost

18:48

but php bad

18:48

BASED

variable refresh rate is coming soon to KWin/Wayland

18:49

btw. I don't have the hardware but IIRC X11 does not support mixed refresh rate right? Like having a 144Hz and 60Hz monitor, with both at their native refreshrate?

how does wayland or anything kwin handle 2 displays with different hz

I actually never checked who made/came up with wayland, the way it steals tasks from every other component on the display stack has a nasty smell for me

Ryozuki

how does wayland or anything kwin handle 2 displays with different hz

I think the applications are rendering at 144Hz if they are fully or partially displayed on a 144Hz output

18:50

But depends on the implementation i guess

btw, if you have 2 firefox open, one in the display with 60hz and another in 144hz it locks both to 60hz sadly

Learath2

I actually never checked who made/came up with wayland, the way it steals tasks from every other component on the display stack has a nasty smell for me

The only monolithic thing about Wayland is combining compositor and display server into one.

on X

18:51

but i think its a firefox thingy

Aha, another freedesktop project

Ryozuki

but i think its a firefox thingy

Firefox really sucks on Linux :(. Mozilla bad.

18:51

I mean I still use it

I got message from bot ....

Image attachment

But it's just to not use Chromium-based stuff

mozilla made rust initially, so mozilla good, the ceo of mozilla not good tho

it like never fails, I can smell a freedesktop project a mile away

Learath2

it like never fails, I can smell a freedesktop project a mile away

Freedesktop also bad?

idk what's wrong with it, but all their projects are very similar in idea

I mean X.Org is sponsored by FreeDesktop soooooo

I guess new management bad?

Learath2

I guess new management bad?

dunno. But apart from some licensing thingys I don't really mind

All the projects they sponsor/develop lately have been take 2 things that work, make it into one thing

as long as my xdg-open works on every desktop im happy

Learath2

All the projects they sponsor/develop lately have been take 2 things that work, make it into one thing

think_bot

18:53

Pulse + JACK = PipeWire

18:53

X11 + WM = Wayland

18:53

think_bot

well wayland also has a composer, no?

18:53

compositor*

WM = compositor in most cases (edited)

18:53

I mean are there WMs that do not also do the job of a compositor?

btw ublock works better on firefox

18:54

firefox helps with cname cloaking

18:54

chrome bad

Chrome very bad

tiling wms usually don't come with a compositor

Hmm, I'm unsure, what a "compositor" is. I mean does it need 3d workspace cube to be a compositor? dunno (edited)

18:55

I guess stuff like transparency/blur is also handled by a compositor so 90% of r/unixporn is using compositors

well i3 and bspwm don't provide off-screen buffers for applications, nor do they handle any transparency or blur

18:56

you usually use a separate compositor like compton or xcompmgr

Wayland is cool though. It's def. different. One key design difference is, that windows don't know about other windows. That way one application can't fuck up the windows of anotherr

18:58

Also: no one can spy on your desktop with a ffmpeg command via ssh, as it requires user confirmation on Wayland

Learath2

you usually use a separate compositor like compton or xcompmgr

comptom is no more, use picom

I don't use a compositor tbf

https://github.com/yshui/picom

A lightweight compositor for X11. Contribute to yshui/picom development by creating an account on GitHub.

Learath2

I don't use a compositor tbf

i do to see the anime girl behind my terminal

18:59

BASED

18:59

Hm, I wonder if I should put an anime girl in my background aswell

18:59

I usually always have it black

https://x.scrumplex.rocks/img/1618426748.png KWin asking me if Firefox is allowed to see my anime girl background (edited)

Embedded image

I'll have to review wayland

19:00

I haven't made a decision on it yet

time to check ur website

19:01

mom! im famous! people are clicking on my website

my ocd is triggered

19:01

u round only the top left

It's like a fancy business card

<noscript> Enable JavaScript for best experience. <style>.wrapper{padding-top:100px;padding-bottom:100px}body.scroll{padding-bottom:0}.main,.main.fadeIn{display:block!important;opacity:1;animation:none;top:initial;position:relative;transform:none}img[data-src]{display:none}.scroll-indicator{display:none}</style> </noscript>

19:01

monkalaugh

The site works 100% without JS

19:02

I just want the world to see my cool animations

19:02

I was once in a job interview where the interviewer had printed my website

your web looks better than mine, good job

19:02

i dont like those mainstream catchphrases and the hashtag but its good

I applaud you for making your page no-js

PES_SusThink

Image attachment

Learath2

I applaud you for making your page no-js

It has JS. It's just optional

Ryozuki

PES_SusThink

I added that like 5 years ago. so it stays that way >:( (edited)

I mean just the fact that you can see it without js

is it just a static web tho?

Ryozuki

is it just a static web tho?

yep

19:03

But pls dont look at the source code

19:03

you will puke

19:03

i will puke

19:03

we all will puke

19:03

because Node with get us all

19:03

WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE NODE

19:03

AAAA

A whole lot of websites now are just completely unusable without js because modern web development is all about react

https://edgarluque.com/ backed by rust and actix.rs, the top 2 fastest web framework

19:04

yoo

https://gitlab.com/Scrumplex/website (edited)

Sefa Eyeoglu / Website

Personal Website

19:04

using webpack and other stuff to generate the site once. and then just deploy the static html with my GitLab pipeline to my Arch Linux server

Are you turkish? That's a very turkish name

arch linux server

19:05

yoo

Learath2

Are you turkish? That's a very turkish name

Well my mother and grandparents are. I grew up in Germany though.

Ah

Ryozuki

arch linux server

even managed with Ansible

19:05

Arch Ansible and Podman

i need to learn ansible

I am still learning

my server is just full of stuff i throw in there

I think node is quite nice, honestly

Learath2

I think node is quite nice, honestly

npm is the horror (edited)

It's an actual good example of "it works"

to build my website you need soooooo many node modules

Learath2

It's an actual good example of "it works"

hehe read https://fasterthanli.me/articles/i-want-off-mr-golangs-wild-ride as i told u

19:06

it includes some nodejs

and like almost everyone has some deprecation warning or security vulnerability

well yes, but would you prefer never hearing about deprecations or vulns?

19:07

that's technically how it used to be

i only use node to install tailwindcss

I would rather not have a dependency tree that's higher than my family tree (edited)

19:08

I don't like that every package can choose it's favourite version of a dependency

Well sure, but would you prefer handling it by hand? I think node is about as good as it gets in this current ecosystem

Forcing all packages to roll along would be my preferred way

19:09

That way you won't get a dead Node project that still works, but uses age old deps

Anyway, node is very very far from ideal but it's one area I really can't do any better myself so I try not to complain much about it

Also: similar to pypi, npm is full of undiscovered malware (edited)

Now if you want to see something that's absolutely cancerous look no further than python

19:10

it is truly evil how awfully designed pythons modules are

Python is a nice language to prototype stuff or do very simple things

every single time I have worked with python I've wanted to just flat out die

but dont write actual software in Python goddammit

19:11

I mean your code might just stop working after a few python releases because they changed how class inheritance works or whatever

19:12

Btw. you need 276M of node_modules just to built my static website

I really need to learn more perl so I can completely rid my life of python

pacman -Rsc python leads to a removal of like 95% of all packages on my system (edited)

Scrumplex

Btw. you need 276M of node_modules just to built my static website

yeah it gets massive, they do optimize down quite well though, so that's good

306M after upgrading my dependencies

(edited)

still, it's better to waste some computing power only once during deployment of your website than wasting it every time someone visits the website

that's true

19:30

especially as the website is built by a shared runner in GitLab CI

and that's not some mobile device with limited performance and battery life for sure (edited)

i was pointing more at the fact that i dont lose any space on my server anyway

yes, even better

19:32

is that funny "is-even" library being used too?

19:33

https://www.npmjs.com/package/is-even

testing my bot justatest

justatest

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Terraria Official (@Terraria_Logic)

Terraria for smart fridges launches today! Visit the Terraria Community Forums for a complete list of models and specs! https://t.co/YMUB6whDIJ

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19:40

and ddnet?

3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPEvF8l9LDM kick the trolls my final message goodbye

change da world my final message. Goodbye

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