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DDraceNetwork
Development / developer
Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.tw/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories — IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet
Between 2021-03-13 00:00:00Z and 2021-03-14 00:00:00Z
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GitHub BOT 2021-03-13 01:03:09Z
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l-ouis
[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #3702 scoreboard blank box
!image This block is usually blank on ddrace servers, maybe don't display it if it's blank?
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GitHub BOT 2021-03-13 05:33:20Z
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ddnet-maps
[ddnet-maps:master] 1 new commit
a81a3e5 M Goldshire - ddnet-maps
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Index 2021-03-13 08:47:36Z
meh.. please NO account system, its not tw anymore with registration ! :<
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GitHub BOT 2021-03-13 09:04:40Z
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def-
[ddnet-web:master] 1 new commit
be32ddd GER4, JAP2, SGP2 - def-
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 11:38:38Z
Anyone online want to give their thoughts on this PR: https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/3654 I'm hoping to code/complete the feature later today. I think the suggestion by kamillentee might be the right approach. (edited)
Added swap functionality to server client: by houseme-kyle · Pull R...
Added a new chat command /swap based on the discussion in the associated issue: #1103 Swaps the character&#39;s position with another tee using the existing Save/Load functionality. Restriction...
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GitHub BOT 2021-03-13 12:02:48Z
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def-
[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #3703 master server issue -> keeps choosing same master server
Instead the server should loop over the available ones.
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 15:33:54Z
https://kornel.ski/rust-c-speed something that resonates with me, as I'm currently writing almost-C for https master servers
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Learath2 2021-03-13 15:57:08Z
Why not rust?
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 15:57:17Z
eh, client part
15:57
server part is rust
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Learath2 2021-03-13 15:57:30Z
Ah, I see 😛
15:57
I would have went with python to prototype and c++ to implement
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 15:57:56Z
hm. server part is rust + nginx right now
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 15:58:02Z
i see lot of rust posts ppl saying x program in rust is slower than xi n java, and it was what to_lowercase does lot of unicode stuff, they just had to change it to make_ascii_lowercase
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Ryozuki
i see lot of rust posts ppl saying x program in rust is slower than xi n java, and it was what to_lowercase does lot of unicode stuff, they just had to change it to make_ascii_lowercase
Learath2 2021-03-13 15:58:28Z
Most of these kinds of benchmarks suffer from the same silliness
15:58
I saw one where they were sorting vectors and the C++ one was creating a copy of the vector after every swap...
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 15:59:13Z
oh and also the writer thing
15:59
if they dont wrap the writer in a bufwriter it flushes byte by byte
15:59
so they made the program slower than the python one
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 15:59:56Z
it can be said that this is unexpected and can lead to programs being slower in rust than in C/Python/Java
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:00:17Z
rusts likes things being explicit than implicit
16:00
actually in java u have to wrap the filewriter in a buffered writer too
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Learath2 2021-03-13 16:00:32Z
Well I have one piece of advice, don’t use languages that you are not familiar with
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:00:34Z
so its not something uncommon
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:00:35Z
libc automatically switches between line buffering/block buffering depending on output redirection
16:00
that can be nice for performance 🙂
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Learath2 2021-03-13 16:00:59Z
Not like the languages are made for kindergartners
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:01:11Z
PrintWriter out = new PrintWriter(new BufferedWriter(new FileWriter("foo.out")));
16:01
xd
16:01
fcking java
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Learath2
Not like the languages are made for kindergartners
Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:01:30Z
yeah
16:01
but they always come to the reddit rust
16:01
crying
16:01
"gottem!!!"
16:01
like they rly try hard to prove rust is nto perfomant
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:02:12Z
are you maybe talking about "children"? kindergarteners are people who oversee children (at least in german)
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:02:28Z
kinder
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Ryozuki
like they rly try hard to prove rust is nto perfomant
Learath2 2021-03-13 16:02:33Z
Well they are looking in the wrong place. Rusts shortcomings sre very well documented
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:02:35Z
they come to the rust subreddit for advice, nothing wrong with that IMO
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:02:35Z
i know kinder is kid due to the chocalte egg
16:02
chocolate egg
16:02
iirc
16:02
Image attachment
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heinrich5991
are you maybe talking about "children"? kindergarteners are people who oversee children (at least in german)
Learath2 2021-03-13 16:02:56Z
Hm, in english a kindergartner would be someone attending as a child. I think
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:02:57Z
xdddd
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:02:58Z
the rust subreddit explicitly encourages asking questions
16:03
hm interesting
16:03
false friends and all
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:03:27Z
i guess a kindergartener would be the one taking care
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Learath2 2021-03-13 16:03:28Z
String formatting is a great place to poke at rust or the binary size
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:03:32Z
kinder-garten means "garden for children"
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Learath2
String formatting is a great place to poke at rust or the binary size
Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:03:51Z
the blog also says something, c programs have 30mb of std lib already in the system
16:03
so they tend to be smaller
16:03
but its a bit misleading
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:04:29Z
> ls -lh /usr/lib/libc-2.32.so -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 2.1M Oct 14 19:00 /usr/lib/libc-2.32.so*
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Learath2 2021-03-13 16:04:30Z
I never checked in rust but with C you can pretty much not link to libc at all if you prefer
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:04:40Z
no 30MB
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:04:41Z
Image attachment
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Learath2 2021-03-13 16:04:50Z
Or link statically with an already tiny one like ulibc or musl and let LTO rip
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:05:05Z
yes, works for rust, too, but formatting is hard to avoid
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:05:30Z
one thing i found useful is the include_bytes! macro
16:05
so useful to test stuff
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Learath2 2021-03-13 16:05:50Z
I remember reading a blog post with someone doing rust on embedded. He had to get rid of error handling in most places to not pull in fmt
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:05:58Z
https://github.com/edg-l/teestatus/blob/master/src/server_v2.rs#L189
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:06:07Z
error handling or panics?
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Learath2 2021-03-13 16:06:14Z
Aah panics it was, yes
16:06
I think he managed to get it to print out a static string at the end tho
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:06:44Z
@Ryozuki use permalinks. press y before copying the link 🙂
16:06
https://github.com/edg-l/teestatus/blob/bf009dcc65a95ebaf057ab9800275d63bea043d5/src/server_v2.rs#L189
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:07:45Z
🧐
16:08
fn parse_main<S: AsRef<[u8]>>(data: &'a S) monkalaugh
16:09
AsRef magic
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:09:50Z
that leads to monomorphisation costs unless you immediately call another function without the type parameter
16:10
fn parse_main_inner(data: &'a [u8]) -> …
16:10
(the function will be duplicated for each type you call it with in the final executable)
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:10:42Z
👀
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Learath2 2021-03-13 16:10:51Z
Did you see the new function syntax for C++? I never saw it in the wild even tho it’s been in since C++11
16:11
I wonder why the return type at the end took off so much
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:11:06Z
you mean the auto -> ?
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Learath2 2021-03-13 16:11:14Z
Yep
16:11
Every new language has that syntax now
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:11:27Z
it's easier to parse and easier to grep for, I like it
16:11
and it's also the syntax in maths
16:12
easier to parse as in that you need a less complex automaton to recognize it
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Learath2 2021-03-13 16:12:23Z
It’s easier for the compiler but I’m so used to spotting it at the start of the line
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:12:49Z
it's really nice I can grep for functions in rust via 'fn function_name'
16:13
in C I have to hope that they follow the "return type on separate line" coding convention
16:13
wireshark follows it
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Learath2 2021-03-13 16:14:13Z
That looks weird to me, I usually just grep for / function_name(.*)$/
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:14:26Z
that also gets calls
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Learath2 2021-03-13 16:14:29Z
Discord ate my backslashes 😛
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:14:42Z
@heinrich5991 https://github.com/edg-l/teestatus/blob/7a077f13110acf8d72614a3dd6d0b55b35069c8d/src/server.rs#L160 i always keep in mind what you said about accepting [u8] instead of vecs, you think that recommendation is applicable here still? i need to modify the contents of those buffers btw
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heinrich5991
that also gets calls
Learath2 2021-03-13 16:14:44Z
I personally don’t mind
16:14
But I can see it being an issue in a massive codebase
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:15:11Z
well
16:15
the buffers should already have the size needed
16:15
so maybe using u8 is better
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:15:34Z
take &mut [Vec<u8>] ?
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:16:00Z
what about the inner vec
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:16:05Z
the Vec -> &[] conversion only applies unconditionally for the outermost layer
16:16
okay, even there, unconditionally is wrong. if you need to call functions like push or reserve, take a vec there
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:17:00Z
no i dont need
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:17:04Z
hm
16:17
you could take a single buffer 🙂
16:17
and split off as much as you need each time
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:17:37Z
i made this a zero copy parser, it saves the recv content in the buffer and returns a view of that content as a ServerInfo struct
16:17
i needed 2 buffers due to the more packet
16:17
maybe a single buffer is better
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:17:55Z
take a &mut [u8]
16:18
you can split it with split_mut_at (or similar) after receiving the first packet
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Learath2 2021-03-13 16:19:08Z
Hm, being zero-copy means it can’t work on architectures that can’t do unaligned access, right?
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:19:25Z
zero copy probably means "copy the ints"?
16:19
here
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:19:32Z
ah yea
16:19
the ints are copied i guess
16:19
its not fully zero copy
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Learath2 2021-03-13 16:19:48Z
Makes sense
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:19:50Z
the strings are not copied tho
16:20
which theorically is most of the content?
16:20
maybe it doesnt make sense to make this 0 copy
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Learath2 2021-03-13 16:20:24Z
What if a string is unaligned? Does that fail at compilation even?
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:21:15Z
"no unaligned access" on platforms means "the standard method of getting integers only works on aligned addresses"
16:21
(this always refers to "all platforms that I know")
16:21
strings (as character arrays) can still be unaligned
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:21:44Z
A string slice (&str) is made of bytes (u8), and a byte slice (&[u8]) is made of bytes, so this function converts between the two. Not all byte slices are valid string slices, however: &str requires that it is valid UTF-8. from_utf8() checks to ensure that the bytes are valid UTF-8, and then does the conversion.
16:21
idk im not rly informed about this align stuff
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:21:56Z
you can still have unaligned ints, but need different methos of accessing them
16:22
in rust you'd probably make a new type "unaligned int" that has a value function (edited)
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heinrich5991
strings (as character arrays) can still be unaligned
Learath2 2021-03-13 16:22:25Z
Well ofc there is a way, I bet LLVM can even do the shift for you on such platforms
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heinrich5991
you can split it with split_mut_at (or similar) after receiving the first packet
Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:23:11Z
oh i get it now
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Learath2 2021-03-13 16:23:14Z
But accessing an int should be no different to accessing a char
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:23:26Z
right now i do a little hack in the parser tho
16:23
i check if its the end by checking if there are
16:23
consecutive \0
16:23
2*
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:23:52Z
ouch 😄
16:23
can't you pass a slice?
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:24:00Z
Image attachment
16:24
its cuz i found it rly simple with nom
16:24
xd
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:24:27Z
nom probably supports "many_until_eof" or similar
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:24:28Z
its a bit sad the packet doesnt tell u how many players are there
16:24
in the current packet
16:24
but the buffer is filled with lot of \0
16:24
because i use a bigger packet than what its filled
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:24:58Z
no, because you ignore the recv return value
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:25:02Z
true
16:25
xd
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:25:04Z
@Learath2 @heinrich5991 need your input here 🙂 https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/3411
Accounts · Issue #3411 · ddnet/ddnet
If anyone wants to summarize the discussion, feel free to. I just wanted to create the issue now.
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:25:06Z
ok ill check that
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:25:53Z
@Zodiac such a rush 😛 I saw it, can I take a day or so to form my opinion? ^^
16:25
I like the idea
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:26:35Z
i got a new theme for my neovim, this time is the ayu dark theme poggers
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:26:49Z
haha I am bored and want to be productive. Blocked on /swap and accounts.
16:27
I'll look at my feature list and see if there is something else I can do
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:27:48Z
sorry. this is such a "we're doing a change and will be stuck with it forever" PR, so I don't want to do stupid mistakes
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:29:40Z
definitly dont call it /otp
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:29:40Z
Yeah fair enough and if we did rush it we wouldn't have gotten the latest idea. I'll look at something different
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:30:21Z
@heinrich5991 do you want the verification to be a code or a clickable link?
16:30
in the email
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:30:54Z
I have not thought about this
16:30
clickable link is less friction
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:31:06Z
i have yet to hear what deen thinks about all of this too
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:31:07Z
code might be less susceptible to phishing
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:31:09Z
I have given it some thought but couldn't think of a simple way to feed back to the client (edited)
16:32
Email -> website -> master server -> client but will need a way to know which client to send to
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:32:27Z
@heinrich5991 have you thought about putting all this auth commands behind https?
16:32
emails are sensitive data afterall
16:32
a command is not encrypted
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:33:13Z
I'm in favor of not doing this until we get an encrypted connection, but I hadn't publicly said so yet because I thought you rather want accounts than more delays ^^
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:33:35Z
Thought you were working on the HTTPS part?
16:33
Team effort 😄
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:33:57Z
i wonder why u meantion master servers in the accounts issue
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:33:59Z
I'm working on the https server list, this isn't quite related to accounts, I think
16:34
the client can already speak HTTPS, that's no problem
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:34:46Z
@heinrich5991 should the auth server-side stuff be on its own "microservice" too?
16:34
and then servers talk to it or something?
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:35:20Z
I don't know much about that, it's probably better if others design that part
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:35:20Z
I think it could be
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:35:23Z
^
16:35
an HTTPS endpoint would be nice, idc how it's implemented
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:36:02Z
monkalaugh
16:36
time to push rust into ddnet monkalaugh
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:36:14Z
From the server side, it is rather straight forward. Never connected via a CPP client before
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:36:42Z
I can help you with that, for me the server side isn't as straightforward
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:36:48Z
I was going to suggest creating the backend accounts API in C#
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:36:53Z
ew
16:36
never
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:36:54Z
only did that in python so far, and only small projects 😄
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:36:54Z
** waits for uproar 😄
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:37:24Z
languages we already use in ddnet: C, C++, Python (and nim)
16:37
it would be best if it was one of those 😉
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:37:36Z
feelsbadman
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:37:59Z
it would be best, it's not a strict requirement
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:38:09Z
There is so much hate for C# due the legacy. NET Core is open-source and has so much built-in functionality. Could create the BE accounts system in a day
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:38:10Z
it's just that every dependency makes it harder to deploy 😉
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:38:34Z
Python isn't a bad alternative
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:38:38Z
c# reminds me of M$$ and u can just use java if u go that way
16:38
python being dynamic doesnt appeal to me
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:38:58Z
C# isn't a bad language. I don't know how friction less it runs on linux. do you use it on linux @Zodiac?
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:39:02Z
Also has a lot of support and could allow for a quick solid implementation
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:39:16Z
@heinrich5991 to use c# on linux u have to install 300mb software called mono
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:39:18Z
@heinrich5991 it is multi-platform
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:39:23Z
"multi platform"
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:39:24Z
I know it's multiplatform
16:39
using C on windows is also a PITA
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:39:47Z
We host our C# apps on linux (edited)
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:39:53Z
ah
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:40:01Z
Cheaper 😄
16:40
Anyway, just a thought. The solution needs to be decided first.
16:40
I knew it wouldn't be a popular one.
16:40
I think python is also a strong option. Been meaning to learn the ins-outs of it as well
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:41:14Z
thats so boring
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:41:48Z
Telemetry is enabled by default but can be disabled by setting environment variable DOTNET_CLI_TELEMETRY_OPTOUT=1.
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:42:00Z
monkalaugh
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:42:19Z
my rust/c++/c/python compiler/interpreter doesn't come with telemetry
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:42:21Z
Boring often means easier 🙂
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:42:29Z
not rly
16:42
i dont like how python scales due to it being dynamic typed
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:42:57Z
@Learath2 know how I can get a std::shared_ptr of my own class?
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:43:01Z
and nobody rly uses type hints
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:43:31Z
I basically want to define a method on std::shared_ptr<CMyType> so I can pass myself to antoher thread
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:43:32Z
Yeah I can't speak much about Python.
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:43:34Z
we can use the fearless concurrency of rust instead of the nobo python GIL monkalaugh
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:43:54Z
python would probably scale by using multiple processes there
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:44:07Z
if u want something easy i would use golang before python
16:44
u can learn go in 1 day
16:44
but rust is the best
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:44:26Z
C# has Tasks which pretty much gives concurrency out of the box
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:44:38Z
\(T)/
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:44:50Z
Issue free
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heinrich5991
@Learath2 know how I can get a std::shared_ptr of my own class?
Learath2 2021-03-13 16:44:52Z
You can just make_shared no?
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:45:10Z
@Zodiac u can get data races in c# right?
16:45
greenthing
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:45:19Z
I have a function ::SpawnTask()
16:45
that wants to pass itself to a thread
16:45
so I kind of want to ensure that my own class lives as long as the thread
16:46
the easiest way would be to already be behind a std::shared_ptr, so I could just clone that
16:46
I don't know if I can formulate that in C++ though
16:46
(or rust, for that matter)
16:47
hm, then again I'm accessing engine, and I can't guarantee that lives long enough
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:47:29Z
The framework handles most of the complexity and protects against most of that. Can't remember the last time I had a race condition. But anyways, I am not meaning to come out as C# is the best language. Just that it gets some unnecessary hate due to the pre .NET Core days.
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:47:30Z
ouch, bolting on concurrency on top of our code works badly
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:47:53Z
I have also heard good things about RUST - just haven't used it myself
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:49:40Z
well i talk about it here nearly every other day monkalaugh
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:50:30Z
I'm going to put // Just pretend `this` and its `m_pEngine` live longer than the thread. there and call it a day
😅 1
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:50:41Z
monkaS
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GitHub BOT 2021-03-13 16:52:51Z
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Boti891
[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #3704 [Idea] Quick Chats, Tutorials, Friends Menu
Add a Menu Option Where You Can Manage Friends, Tutorial Tab Somewhere with animations and explaining stuff, ingame tab like the news for vids and other creations, Quick Chats something like rocket league has. make more stuff translateable in the language.txt files specially the quick chats would be nice to communicate with people who dont know the language you speaking, a game tab where you can share gameskins binds and etc..
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Boti. 2021-03-13 16:53:04Z
have fun with it
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:53:05Z
@Zodiac u mentioned dota 2 in the github right?
16:53
actually dota 2 community resembles this one a lot
16:53
its all made up of old players
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:53:38Z
we have a lot of new players
16:53
maybe not on discord
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:54:28Z
btw the strong vote got more than 80 votes iirc
16:54
thats way more than the usual ppl chatting here
16:54
Image attachment
16:55
same here
16:55
there is definitly looking here and they dont talk
16:55
ppl*
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:55:43Z
Yeah, there definitely are parallels. The same issues/danger could be had if Valve used /r/dota2 is its decision maker (edited)
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:56:07Z
actually valve does a lot of things r/dota2 mentions
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:56:38Z
They do use it as a source but not as the deciding vote
16:57
There are a number of times the subreddit was heavily against a decision made by Valve
16:57
They just represent a portion of a larger community
16:57
Like @heinrich5991 said there are lots of new players. Just not on discord
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:58:08Z
#join-leave
16:58
there is quite lot of ppl joining everyday
16:58
they just dont talk
16:58
which is quite normal
16:58
blending in a discord is not easy
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:58:43Z
Joining and being active participant are two different things
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 16:58:44Z
we had 2000 players yesterday. this discord has a member count of 5000
16:59
I don't think more than 1000 of these had a discord account joined in this server
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:59:20Z
if they are interested they would
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:59:22Z
Especially the asian countries
16:59
Discord is banned in China
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:59:31Z
well china is a different matter
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:59:36Z
Which actually is our largest community
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:59:38Z
i rly dislike the barrier
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 16:59:47Z
There is also a language barrier
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 16:59:47Z
i literally know nothing of whats happening there
16:59
ye
16:59
sad
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 17:00:30Z
All I am saying is that there is a likelihood that the feedback we rely on is bias towards skilled players and certain demographics
17:00
It is something to be aware of. Doesn't mean to disregard the input
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 17:01:24Z
its ppl who played this game for years, they rly like this game, disregarding the input would be rly bad imho
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 17:02:18Z
Completely agreed 🙂 It is very important to listen to the feedback. The difference is to not make it the only channel/decider.
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 17:02:25Z
there are lot of games that have this type of "hidden mechanic" (strong weak hook) in this case, and learning those mechanics makes you a better player
17:02
its also a sense of effort
17:02
i rly dont want it removed
17:03
also the strong weak hook on novice you wont care most of the time
17:03
unless you optimize for top ranks
17:03
it matters most on edgehook maps and other brutal maps
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 17:04:17Z
There are parts that are a lot easier if you so happen to have strong. /spec and /unspecing isn't a skill but rather a knowledge barrier.
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 17:04:34Z
and nothing wrong with a knowledge barrier
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 17:04:38Z
hm
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 17:04:39Z
you can do that novice part
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 17:04:47Z
knowledge barrier doesn't seem useful to me
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 17:04:56Z
its only normal to expect players to be more invested the more they go into harder maps
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 17:05:12Z
yes, removing things you have to know sounds good to me though
17:05
all else being equal
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 17:05:35Z
i dont like removing things you have to know
17:05
it removes depth
17:05
a depth that lot of players love
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 17:05:45Z
It is a knowledge barrier for the sake of it and creates a bad user experience
17:06
The alternative would be to have a very obvious indicator of who has strong/weak, then a clear method to /spec.
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 17:06:12Z
if you create hints that tell you that /spec exists and that it can be used for changing weak/strong, then that removes a knowledge barrier
17:06
I see absolutely nothing wrong with that
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 17:06:32Z
well i wasnt talking about spec tbh
17:06
there are maps without it
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Cristian 2021-03-13 17:06:46Z
Embedded image
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 17:06:47Z
and u have to plan the strong weak partsa beforehand if u want to optimize it
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Cristian 2021-03-13 17:06:48Z
BROKEN @Zodiac
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 17:07:09Z
hmm. UNK?
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 17:07:14Z
UNK means unknown
17:07
country
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 17:07:20Z
@Cristian thanks Kenzoo - will look into it. What server and map is this?
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Cristian 2021-03-13 17:07:47Z
its block chilean srv
17:07
idk why its unk
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 17:08:18Z
maybe block servers don't have server location configured
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Ryozuki
and u have to plan the strong weak partsa beforehand if u want to optimize it
Zodiac 2021-03-13 17:12:58Z
But can you see how this might be an example of favouring advanced players at the expense of new players? The situation that it benefits advanced players is minimal where most of the time it is an unnecessary extra. Where the avg player/new players unknowingly have a worse experience or find parts harder. What I am trying to get at is that we have a natural bias to older players, which we need to be aware of. To give an hypothetical. What if there a "Newbies Encouraged! " WhatsApp group and we used that to make decision on strong/weak. Do you think the same decision would have been made?
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 17:13:24Z
they dont find parts harder in novice
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 17:13:42Z
Or moderate
17:13
I played teeworlds for 2 years and didn't know about strong
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 17:13:56Z
i dont think it matters much in moderato too
17:13
moderate
17:14
until the high end
17:14
and there is when u should already know about this
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 17:14:15Z
Hammer flying is easier if the person on the top has strong
17:14
It allows you to fall down slower
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heinrich5991
so I kind of want to ensure that my own class lives as long as the thread
Learath2 2021-03-13 17:14:37Z
As long as a class that lives long enough holds a shared ptr to your class it'll live long enough. Idk which part you are having trouble with
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 17:14:37Z
hammer flying with weak in novices doesnt matter
17:14
its more useful to control the going down
17:14
which i never seen was needed in novice
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 17:15:00Z
I am not trying to make this about strong 🙂
17:15
I am using that as an example
17:15
In this hypothetical can we assume Strong creates a worse experience for new players
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 17:15:33Z
no
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Zodiac 2021-03-13 17:15:41Z
😅
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louis 2021-03-13 17:17:16Z
weak sucks remove it
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jao 2021-03-13 17:19:33Z
remove strong
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GitHub BOT 2021-03-13 17:19:57Z
Author icon
edg-l
[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #3705 Using a uppercase character in a searchbox puts the caret in a wrong position
!image
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 17:24:08Z
@heinrich5991 is the mysqlcpp connector removed already on 15.3.2?
17:24
gotta know so i can update the arch aur
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deen 2021-03-13 17:34:26Z
no
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Astramast 2021-03-13 19:30:56Z
so
19:31
i want a command that bind a key so it emote at a certain frequence a certain emote (smthing like 1time/s) (edited)
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jao 2021-03-13 19:31:56Z
not possible
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jao
not possible
Astramast 2021-03-13 19:33:26Z
D: sadness is huge
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bubliman 2021-03-13 19:56:10Z
@Astramast just do bind key emote [number 1-16] the emotes will be spammed depending on what setting the server uses (edited)
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bubliman
@Astramast just do bind key emote [number 1-16] the emotes will be spammed depending on what setting the server uses (edited)
Astramast 2021-03-13 20:36:17Z
no but i dont want to spam like 300 emotes/s
20:36
i want like 1/s or smthing
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bubliman 2021-03-13 21:21:44Z
Would be amazing, Teeworlds is open source, so u can code it if u want 🙂
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SPYRES 2021-03-13 21:22:25Z
we need dota's high five in teeworlds. id love that xD
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 21:40:33Z
@Learath2 for ping calculation, should a server be able (with a fallback provided by the master server) to select a country? or should the master server have sole control over this?
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Learath2 2021-03-13 21:52:11Z
Idk how you intend to do ping
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 21:59:15Z
wanted to do ping estimates based on geolocation
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Learath2 2021-03-13 22:29:22Z
Hm, I think the master controls that
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deen 2021-03-13 22:31:25Z
Nim made it into a major tech news website, but maybe not with the best topic 😄 https://www.zdnet.com/article/this-malware-was-written-in-an-unusual-programming-language-to-stop-it-from-being-detected/
This malware was written in an unusual programming language to stop...
NimzaLoader malware is unusual because it's written in a programming language rarely used by cyber criminals - which could make it harder to detect and defend against.
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 22:33:26Z
"unusual"
22:33
monkalaugh
22:34
https://roy.marples.name/archives/dhcpcd-discuss/0003457.html
22:34
feelsbadman
22:36
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26449179
elvis70
Dhcpcd Will Need a New Maintainer
Footer icon Hacker News • 2021-03-13 19:24:51Z
22:36
actually true comments
22:36
im sure this software runs in millions of servers yet no one knows this guy who is about to be gone..
22:36
ppl only care about tv ppl feelsbadman
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plsplsplslol 2021-03-13 22:45:28Z
deen helps make malware programming language monkalaugh
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deen 2021-03-13 22:47:56Z
I haven't helped with Nim for years now
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 22:48:25Z
i find it funny that most ppl dont know where the test sv password "nimrocks" comes from monkalaugh
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heinrich5991 2021-03-13 23:02:33Z
leaks
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Ryozuki 2021-03-13 23:05:53Z
@heinrich5991 #📌info
Exported 373 message(s)