DDraceNetwork - developer

DDraceNetwork

Development / developer

Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.tw/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories — IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet

Between 2021-03-02 00:00:00Z and 2021-03-03 00:00:00Z

https://gist.github.com/Learath2/c921f906b7c3952f8e3ff17c76d596a4 here it is, you can implement the Provider class however you want to check whatever you want

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o.o

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue closed: #3661 Consider removing console on windows as default setting

08:13

[ddnet:master] 2 new commits

c20b980 Don't allocate the windows console default - Jupeyy f78bbb5 Merge #3662 - bors[bot]

08:13

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #3662 Don't allocate the windows console default

It's extremely impressive how long the switch people managed to keep their exploit to dump the root key private

09:53

The longer they go the more intrigued I become about how they managed to get to it

@Learath2 nintendo switch?

09:58

good old consoles that dont encrypt the fcking cartridges

09:58

its a pain to emulate modern consoles

Yep, the 2 people on earth that managed to break it are finally going to make a write-up about it this year since the new switch doesn't use the same secure processor

i still play on the gba from time to time

I spent 2-3 weeks trying to dump that key just out of sheer jealousy

@Learath2 look at the accounts issue on github

is it konsti crying like a baby again or is it konsti insulting people again? if it's either of those I'd rather have breakfast first

@Learath2 btw, what do u think about implementing a proper UI for common commands

10:00

e.g show a proper UI table for top%

10:00

top5

10:00

and ranks

10:00

that is cached by the client

10:00

and u can open it

10:00

like TAB

We could, but it smells like a low impact feature for the work

feelsbadman

Learath2

is it konsti crying like a baby again or is it konsti insulting people again? if it's either of those I'd rather have breakfast first

nothing like that actually xd

I replied

10:05

Now is time for nutrients

monkalaugh

10:07

@Learath2 imagine encrypted whisper msgs that mods can read

10:07

cant

10:07

*

10:07

poggers

10:07

decentralized is the way

10:08

Several platforms implement refutations of Zooko's conjecture, including: Twister (which use Swartz' system with a bitcoin-like system), Blockstack (separate blockchain), Namecoin (separate blockchain), Monero OpenAlias[5] and Ethereum Name Service.

10:09

did u know there are decentralized domain names

Well if you trust us the whispers are already not readable by anyone except people with access to the server who can gdb or wireshark them out

secure meaningful and decentralized

10:09

https://unstoppabledomains.com/

Unstoppable Domains

Make your crypto currency payments simple and build decentralized websites. Purchase your blockchain domains today!

Notice all the refutations of Zooko's conjecture rely on some kind of blockchain

lets implement teechain then

Learath2

Well if you trust us the whispers are already not readable by anyone except people with access to the server who can gdb or wireshark them out

"trust us"

10:10

i dont want to trust u

yeah, me neither, that's why my main goal was keeping this decentralized

Image attachment

10:12

https://medium.com/@ugChainOfficial/ugchain-decentralized-game-account-system-44c43d9ce23b

ugChain — Decentralized Game Account System

What’s ugChain?

I theorised a couple semi-centralized solutions to this where ddnet would run an official phone book of sorts, it'd require some trust that we don't meddle with the phonebook (which is the problem they solve with blockchain btw) but meddling would be detectable on the client side for people they already know

10:12

I honestly don't want blockchain anywhere near teeworlds code

monkalaugh

10:12

i think it would be fun

10:13

but blockchain is a buzzword

10:13

we just want blocks of merkle trees

10:13

monkalaugh

btw for decentralised dns, how do they decide who owns a name? first come first serve?

@Learath2 https://handshake.org/

Decentralized certificate authority and naming

10:14

read more here

decentralized certificate authority sounds so much like an oxymoron to me

10:14

I'll take a look

monkalaugh

10:15

INTERNET NAME TRANSFERS USING COINS TO PREVENT SYBIL ATTACKS

10:15

xd

Like if someone is an "authority" it's by definition not decentralized, no?

Handshake uses a coin system for name registration. The Handshake coin (HNS) is the mechanism by which participants transfer, register, and update internet names. The community will be able to initiate auctions and place bids for top-level domains using HNS or trade their HNS as they see fit, with differing value per name.

10:15

Therefore, Handshake allocates the majority of its initial coins towards the FOSS community with absolutely no obligation attached, as it is this community most relevant with decentralized software and tools. The goal of the initial design was to account for all possible stakeholders. More info.

10:15

actually a cool project

10:16

Handshake's value is derived from its network of users. Metcalfe's Law asserts that an increase in userbase increases the value of the network (sub)exponentially. This means that allocation of value to potential developers and users of this system be a benefit to everyone, with network effect derived benefiting all users.

Hm, do you see at a quick glance how they handle initial registrations?

man monospace websites always look cool

I can see how it works out after that, but the initial registration would be what concerns me. Who decides the price of a domain? Who gets a domain? The first one to register it?

Handshake uses a coin system for name registration. The Handshake coin (HNS) is the mechanism by which participants transfer, register, and update internet names. The community will be able to initiate auctions and place bids for top-level domains using HNS or trade their HNS as they see fit, with differing value per name.

10:18

this?

10:18

the value price is decided by demand

10:18

as in with any auction

10:19

as is*

Feels like it would add some serious complexity to an otherwise simple solution. If you thinking of doing this for accounts

oh arch linux participates in this

10:20

https://handshake.org/grant-sponsors/

Decentralized certificate authority and naming

10:20

monkalaugh

Zodiac

Feels like it would add some serious complexity to an otherwise simple solution. If you thinking of doing this for accounts

Yes, this is rather difficult to hide complexity, which is when I sort of gave up on decentralized the first time I went implementing this

Zodiac

Feels like it would add some serious complexity to an otherwise simple solution. If you thinking of doing this for accounts

we can do it the cool way or the boring way

10:20

i rly dont want it to be centralized

10:20

to ddnet

10:21

but also other mods would need to implement support for this

10:21

i guess

At the end of the day, when we have a decentralized system we have asymmetric crypto, when you have asymmetric crypto you have massive keys which are impossible for humans to memorize

monkaS

Ryozuki

but also other mods would need to implement support for this

I theorised another idea similar to Kerberos where ddnet would be sort of an authentication provider and other mods can authenticate their players aswell

10:23

Could even let users authenticate each other if we get crafty

10:23

e.g. you authenticate with the provider to get a ticket proving who you are, you gimme the ticket, I get the ticket validated by the provider, now I know if you are who you say you are or not

10:25

I guess something like this could be less centralized, but proper decentralization really looks ugly for the users or relies on blockchain

Ryozuki

we can do it the cool way or the boring way

haha can certainly see why it is the boring way. If there is an easier solution for the sexy decentralized version then I am all for it. However, the system is centralized already by virtue that ddnet is the authority of records

Blockchain ranks when?

thats actually a good use case

Well technically not, there is no way to generate a "proof of finish"

well i wonder how any other party than ddnet can verify it

10:26

yea

10:26

xdd

Anyway I really want to discuss all this but it's either all transient on discord or extremely slow on github

well not like we reached any conclusion here

10:27

tho its true making it decentralized is more work

10:28

if we wanted to finish this fast we would just make a simple auth like webs do

Not only more work it's also a technically unsolved problem

10:28

except for blockchain, which I guess if we wanted we could piggyback off of another blockchain that's large enough to be secure

monkalaugh

10:28

litecoin

10:29

there is a game actually

10:29

that uses litecoin

10:29

and its a mmo

10:29

unlike 10 mins that btc has for transactions, litecoin has 2.5mins iirc

10:29

https://www.litebringer.com/

LiteBringer is a truly decentralized application and the first true Litecoin game. Level up RPG characters, trade with other players and earn real money!

Anyway, I can only do so much research on this myself. I read a couple dozen papers, I researched how all the authentication models work and how they ensure certain properties. I couldn't find one that looks like what we'd ideally want

10:30

I'm hoping we can talk on github and figure out what we all want and what we can compromise on to find a model that fits us

the problem here is that cryptographic keys dont allow easy human identification of someones name?

That and crypto keys are not recoverable

well i dont care much about the second

10:31

we cant also just have unique names

We'd need people to store a string of tokens like they do for wallets

how is that different from storing ur config

10:32

btw i think on steam u can use cloud storage for config

Well you lose your config, it's a bad day but not the end

we could save the key with that

10:32

for steam users

You lose your account key and you lose access to your ranks

well right now its not like ur ranks are truly urs either

10:33

its just simbolic

10:33

symbolic

I also think a local address book is a very weird concept for the users to understand

If there is no authority on names, you could technically friend a fake Aoe and you'd think he is Aoe

no

10:34

if u build a "web of trust"

10:34

like the gpg web says

I mean there is a reason we don't all use gpg signed/encrypted mail

its cuz ppl are windows normies that dont care

It's cuz it's not really that intuitive imo

feelsbadman

10:35

im sure there are programs

10:35

to easy manage gpg keys

10:35

thunderbird

10:35

allows it easily

10:36

if the ddnet client allows to easily manage this for dummies

You need some point of trust, in the gpg format it's a friend

i dont see the problem and how it is related to gpg being hard to use

10:36

the point of trust here would be discord

10:36

and admins

10:36

initially

10:36

and known ppl

It's not that gpg is hard to use, it's that the concept is rather slippery imo. The web of trust does not instill much trust in me at all

xd

Notice how you immediately went to a "central" authority (discord, the admins) instead of relying on the web of trust

i mean

10:38

to build the initial trust

10:38

we need discord

10:38

since meeting in person

Or how people that use gpg for mails usually have their websites host the public key

is a rather hard thing

Where you can rely on the DNS authority to verify who owns the key

if the dns authority disappears gg

10:38

and the dns authority here cant kow

10:39

know

10:39

for sure

10:39

who is who initially

10:39

its the same

10:39

u would add the records manually

Anyway, it's a definite possibility. It's just one I don't think the average gamer follows easily

trusting discord

10:42

gamers

monkalaugh

10:42

gamer moment

Ryozuki

if the dns authority disappears gg

This really would be an apocalypse scenario, but it's still recoverable because at the end of the day it's a physical entity that holds the root servers

10:43

We have the governments/government organizations acting as a central authority about who actually owns the root servers and we have a point to start building the trust again

I am prepared to be shot down for even suggesting this, but what are peoples thoughts on having a 15 minute focused discussion on certain Github Issues? Feels like we could save so much time if done over voice with all interested parties. Could use doodle to align times and discord to discuss. (edited)

are you a native english speaker?

11:00

imagine not being a native english speaker and having a rly technical discussion, well idk for u but i am much better at writing

Good point - I suppose it is dependent on how comfortable people are speaking English. The idea is though that it isn't about having technical and lengthy discussions. Most of the back/forth is figuring out people's perspectives and agreeing on objectives. E.G. for the /swap PR everyone's thinking isn't too far off but getting agreement on the specific penalty and best way of applying is taking time. (edited)

I mean the specific medium of discussion doesn’t really matter that much. Only that it’s real-time and we are all there at the same time. If people are more comfortable with text we can do it here too

11:33

But it’s usually the fact that we are not all at the same place at the same time

You are right. It is more of a timing issue than a text vs voice. Then I will change my suggestion with that in mind. What are people's thoughts on having a 15 minute focused discussion on certain Github issues? It can be done as a thread on discord but using doodle so that all interested parties can participate at a convenient time for everyone. (edited)

It’d be great if we could do something like this monthly or weekly even. I’m in for anything that helps progress

Even better, a weekly non-compulsory session. Can get through the more difficult discussions and align on bigger ideas. I don't want to be the new guy who sets meetings so will wait for others to give their thoughts as well. But if everyone's keen we can use something like Doodle to find a time that works for most.

Ryozuki

its cuz ppl are windows normies that dont care

wew

12:31

i feel offended

i want a command that send an emote every second that i can on/off

12:33

someone can do that for me ? (i dont know anything in cmd tw stuff)

sure

12:33

what mod

12:33

and you have to compile urself and i won't test xd

oh wait u meant client side? you could just bind a bind then (that would be your on/off switch). (edited)

12:53

make one bind that executes: bind mouse2 "+hook; emote 3" (ur "on" switch) and another one: bind mouse2 +hook (ur "off" switch) (edited)

12:54

assuming you have hook bound to mouse2

Astramast

i want a command that send an emote every second that i can on/off

Sounds rather annoying

shh, let social regulation do its thing

GutZuFusss

make one bind that executes: bind mouse2 "+hook; emote 3" (ur "on" switch) and another one: bind mouse2 +hook (ur "off" switch) (edited)

i cant bind the two on one key ? like a toggle..

Could someone please help me understand the database structure? Is there a wiki for it? I know there the SQL import at https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet but want to check if there are other tables. Specifically, looking for a table with the servers and associated country code.

@Zodiac there is no such table AFAIK. it's sv_sql_server_name in the config

16:16

@Learath2 not entirely sure what you mean by endlessly long, aD5nkOWIkP+0NiNdYTMtkpgkXG6ZTD5gOUzSozd6o0A= is a wireguard key. you still can't really expect anyone to memorize it

I was thinking of a non elliptic curve solution when I first envisioned it and those are much longer

16:21

But elliptic curves do indeed make it smaller

Zodiac

Could someone please help me understand the database structure? Is there a wiki for it? I know there the SQL import at https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet but want to check if there are other tables. Specifically, looking for a table with the servers and associated country code.

You can download the db and check it out

16:25

Maybe ill add the db structure info to the wiki when i have time

16:26

Btw u can view how a table is made by "show create table" or smth like that

16:26

In mysql

16:27

What are you trying to do?

Yeah thanks, I did and was helpful. I was just wondering whether there was another table specifically for DDNet captures your active servers, names and regions. Based on yours and heinrich's response there isn't

Ryozuki

What are you trying to do?

I'm trying to create a SQL statement similar to that of https://ddnet.tw/ranks/ger/ where you get the ranks by country. Looking around the code, I think it is generated as a script: https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet-scripts/blob/master/servers/scripts/ranks.py

Ah ye

16:29

Deen may know

Cool, will wait for his advice. I think I got it but there are a few edge cases that I might need help with.

@Zodiac Yeah, it's just the ranks.py and filters record_race by Server like "GER%"

I guessed as much. Thought the actual server name was used in the search but that makes things easier. I'm trying to get the same result from the server. Should be easier enough now to implement. Thanks

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #3666 HTTPS masters

We want HTTPS masters. That would make the server list load instantaneous. Basically replaces #1074, I think.

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue closed: #1074 Provide server info from https://ddnet\.tw in json format

ddnet

suggestion ddnet

ddnet

sometimes we need find the other side (from 2) before we go into ,i hope put a fast way for find it like writ /spec cp2

Image attachment

6

1

Tutorial vids in the game menu

could already be achived when my pr gets merged :troll:

Tutorial Tab in the game menu and friends menu

set_view in combination with eval_if and a community db could allow for ah well yikes only one cp bind we still miss variables or functions

19:12

@hussainx3 which cp2 tho? the first that is found? what is if cp2 is in two places in the map?

19:13

iterate throught them on every /spec cp2?

19:13

also would collide with spectating the player cp2

the general idea is good though, I think

yea sounds useful

19:14

might make it even more userfriendly by not taking a number?

but use the closes in tele and get the first out tele

19:15

client side tho? So a chat command is weird. Thats so weird in 0.6

19:15

0.7*

19:15

more a console cmd

https://twitter.com/FallGuysGame/status/1366811607213481985?s=20

Fall Guys 4041 🤖 SOON (@FallGuysGame)

HUGE NEWS! @Mediatonic are pleased to announce that we've joined the @EpicGames family! What does this mean? I'm glad you asked! FAQ: https://t.co/QpiEHemUca https://t.co/ZcGaoooljz

Retweets

1220

Likes

9282

20:56

cringefest

20:56

epic games doing their shit again

Best decision the developers could make tho

???'

did they sell out

dead game anyway

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