DDraceNetwork - developer

DDraceNetwork

Development / developer

Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.tw/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories — IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet

Between 2021-02-17 00:00:00Z and 2021-02-18 00:00:00Z

@Ryozuki i mean i posted this pic about you months ago

ah thats where i know it from

ah i dont remember

ChillerDragon:

12:32

go wire

What was the command to stop ignore clantag on friendlist?

16:36

Ok got it

does someone know how the internet works? :D i have a 10mbit connection and i wonder if i should upgrade. I do not mind waiting a bit longer on a git clone i just care about smooth tw expirience but I assume that is unrelated to the bandwith. Is that correct?

yeah 10mbit should be enough

16:58

cable internet has disadvantages DSL and fiber are probs more stable ping jitter wise

16:59

tho in the end it can also be related to the nodes the packet go through

yea i thought so thanks

17:00

still do not know the difference between cable DSL and fiber should probably look it up thought its all the same

is ur upload also 10mb

17:02

fiber has insanely way lower latency and allows for bigger speeds

17:02

DSL is copper

17:02

fiber runs through light

why would fiber have lower latency

copper is just as fast

my upload is 1

maybe even a bit faster

wat

also, most DSL connections end in a fiber spreader anyway

chiller ur upload speed is the bottleneck

its only from the next thing in ur street to ur house

the issue with "cable" is that it's usually a shared segment btw

1mbit should be enough tho

i need more than 1mbit to send tw packets?

so you're not 'alone' on your link

@Ryozuki the main reason why fiber is "better" is efficiency

maybe if u only used tw in ur whole internet and dont have any other app

i currently have a few lag spikes but those to not get better or worse when i for example watch a yt video

1mb may be engough

17:04

but i doubt

17:05

i experienced 10mb adsl with 0.5mb upload speed

well i assumed no other apps ofc

it was horrible

17:05

switch to fiber asap

ChillerDragon: how many machines are on your network?

fiber probs has better routing too

including wifi clients

since its newer installation

my test laptop and i also connected my phone to watch videos and stresstest

17:05

thats it

fiber always needs to be converted to electricity and then back in order to do anything with it routing-wise

i should have fiber i think

17:06

its not that i can choose

those conversions aren't instantaneous

most internet websites allow u to put a address

17:06

to check

the only thing i could do is pay more and get more up and down bandwith

here actually fiber is cheaper than dsl

fiber doesn't run at full speed of light

ChillerDragon: no roomies or girlfriends or hidden machines pulling windows updates etc at all?

no

17:06

empty flat with a router and a laptop

and does it happen with any tw server (of about equal ping)?

also ouch for pointing out that im single

hey i left open the possibility of a boyfriend

fiber goes at around 70-80% of speed of light, depends of the fiber type, the quality of the cable etc.. Issue with adsl is copper corrosion

well the light refracts inside the cable so its not straight

fiber goes at the speed of light in fiber

@Ryozuki monomode goes straight in theory

well i guess

Ryozuki

fiber has insanely way lower latency and allows for bigger speeds

The latency actually is mostly the same in most european cities as the cabinets themselves are usually connected with fiber already. Only the last run is on copper

i dont know much

17:08

i jsut did 10 min research

17:08

xd

fstd no

17:09

it has a % of speed, not at full speed of light

when i had adsl i didnt have 1ms when doing the speedtest

ReiTW: do by 'full speed of light' you mean the speed of light in fiber or the speed of light in a vacuum?

in fiber

what causes the extra delay then?

yea not very pleasing to test on this device fstd

Well thats an oxymoron, by definition light goes 100% the speed of light in fiber in fiber

monkaS

well you understood me, it doesn't go at full speed of light because of the refraction index

maybe it's because light go straight but cable go ~~~

cable go brrr

that too

17:11

especially with construction equipment involved

yea i guess i will not upgrade if this should/could work and try to save some monthly coin

ReiTW: actually i didn't understand you

is fiber actually more costly to u chiller?

17:12

here is not the case

I’d pay alot to upgrade from 50m copper to fiber

ReiTW: you acknowledge that there is a difference between c_0 and c_fiber

idk about the fiber thingy

@Ryozuki in germany fiber is like non existent xD

i do not think i can choose that

xd

(whch is due to its refractive index)

in spain actually its everywhere

17:13

the only good thing

fstd: sure, that's what I say

Torino has 90% fiber coverage nowadays, my building is in the unlucky 10% that only gets fibre to the cabinet

@Ryozuki the only thing i can change is buy more bandwith

ReiTW: then you should notice that you're applying the refractive index twice

Ryozuki

in spain actually its everywhere

Full ftth or with copper/twisted pair for the last stretch?

@Learath2 u could create a house anywhere outside germany and still get fiber before me

17:14

i bet

ReiTW: you should probably forget the notion of a "full speed of light", that's counterproductive and misleading

monkalaugh

Image attachment

there's just "the speed of light in $medium"

@Ryozuki i'm more jealous about ur upload xD

17:15

well not rly lol fstd, you only take the value of the speed of light in a vacuum and divide it by the refraction index of the material

17:15

i'd love to have (almost) symmetrical down/up

its usually simmetrical

Yeah, and at the end the result is: it doesn't go at th e same speed, sure it's not the same environment

fstd: technically we could do full speed of light communication in space between satellites

ReiTW: so that way we arrive at c_fiber, right?

17:15

now you're saying the speed of light in fiber is slower than c_fiber.

17:16

find the flaw

I'm only saying that speed of light depends of the refraction index xdd, what's difficult to understand, I'm studying networking and telecommunication at school

bbl

(c_fiber already accounts for the refractive index)

ReiTW: then we're not in disagreement

17:17

(you did say something different though)

17:17

q@*ChillerDragon ty

(So saying light travels slower than c_fiber in fiber due to the refractive index of the material is an oxymoron)

no q :D

I mentionned the refraction index btw, so I didn't say smth different

thats was typo :D

17:18

ong troll

fiber travels at the light of speed.

Wait that’s illegal

do you guys know how i can find out of i have fiber?

ReiTW: maybe re-read the conversation then. anyway if you're studying telecommunications, it's even more important that you don't use terminology like "the full speed of light"

im pretty sure i have it but idk

try to cut your cable

ChillerDragon: look at your wall socket?

4head

Chiller ask your provider. 10M is very well within the capabilities of copper even copper all the way from the dslam

its 3 long holes

chiller most internet websites allow u to search ur address

ChillerDragon do u know ur modem?

and check

modem is in my router right? its some fritzbox

ChillerDragon: usually it's either a normal-ass telephone connctor, or something that resembles a network cable plug

then just login it

3 long holes sounds..weird

no network cable

fstd: well it's still usable, i'm always bad to explain, if I use it it's to mention the speed of light in vacuum

im in jupstar :D

17:21

it says DSL

ok

ReiTW: let's call it c0, that's shorter anyway

17:21

bbl

yeah c0 is fine too

If it says dsl it’s at the very least not FTTH

what does bbl mean

So atleast the last stretch is copper which limits you to about 100 mbit depending on how close the cabinet is, the condition of the copper and whether the cabinet itself is connected with fiber

maybe a rat ate urcopper

17:23

monkalaugh

justatest

17:23

haha

corrosion plays with the quality of the link

17:24

for adsl etc..

does fiber degrade over time?

i get 225 / 45 with DSL, and probs never will get more xd

Well everything degrades at some rate

ofc

well i mean in a way that matters

With fiber it should be completely negligible though

plastic degrades, but it takes millions

https://zillyhuhn.com/cs/.1613582684.png thats the thing fstd :D

Embedded image

Atleast in your lifetime ;P

Well with fiber you have more problems when it's about a site under construction, someone digging & cutting a cable

Yeah splicing together fibre optic connections is not easy

or if a rat eats ur cable

poggers

but if it's well done there's some things used to tell that if they dig more there's cables below

17:26

Don't really remember what are those, I think it's some sort of grids

i bet in spain they dont do that

17:26

they just put it 30cm in the ground

Already happened here that a cable got cut here at my job

at mine too

here not

17:27

and they did construction not long ago

17:27

catalonia grade cable best

or some idiot bends it 90 degrees

We lost the chile server for such a long time when they severed a fibre

ChillerDragon: that's a normal-ass telephone socket, aka TAE (Telefonanschlusseinheit)

I think at one time the entirety of south america had major internet outages when they severed a major link to america during construction

(which doesn't mean they still run analog telephony on it)

lmao

They phased it out in north italy mostly. Phones are also thru some new digital thing, never looked into it tho

17:30

Who even uses a home phone anymore

everyone who has a business

yeah the largest carrier in germany has too (not sure about others)

17:31

no more DSL splitter required

17:31

and with VDSL2 and vectoring you get north of 200 Mbit/s

17:31

i think supervectoring is the new hip thing in the DSL world

north?

You need to be very lucky to be close enough to get anywhere close to that usually, no?

jao

north?

Idk why but southern italy seems to still rock analog telephony

yeah true, i think the max speed is only over 100m or so

17:32

let's check

hey dev i have error with compile like that how fixed it xD? https://prnt.sc/zvnn6s

Embedded image

Learath2

You need to be very lucky to be close enough to get anywhere close to that usually, no?

i do get 225 with supervectoring

17:32

i can also look up the length wait

maybe they dont want to invest

fstd: well normally the distance depends of the frequency used

Wow 225m jeez

Learath2: Huawai sez 300 Mbit/s within 300m

so could it be fiber fstd ?

ReiTW: DSL modems typically evaluate the line, called training

17:33

ChillerDragon: no

17:33

well

17:33

not from your home anyway

oh scam i think i was told its fiber

probably fiber starting from the box at the street

300m is much better than I expected, they really got nice improvements

xd

Squeezing the last bit of performance from the ancient lines

but it's not like copper is bad

17:34

or fiber necessarily FaStEr BeCoZ LiGhT fAsT

well it says 269 meters, but dunno if thats correct xd

Image attachment

@WhiteKitty you forgot to implement a function you declared in the class CServer

the signals through copper are about the same speed, maybe evena bit faster

ah yes german text

Learath2

@WhiteKitty you forgot to implement a function you declared in the class CServer

should i do it in src/engine/server.h?

fstd: yeah the issue with copper is that the lines are ancient and you might aswell lay fiber if you bother digging it out

17:35

And you can do far north of 300Mbit on a single fibre

how can u get so much

idk probably too expensive, i mean you'd have to rewire every house

on dsl

@WhiteKitty well idk where you declared it

and terminate, install equipment maybe

jao

how can u get so much

Apparently supervectoring, I didn’t know it was that good either

in my city they do that

17:36

in 10 years u need it anyways

Learath2

Apparently supervectoring, I didn’t know it was that good either

tbh its just telekoms approach to get the last bit of money out of DSL xd

90 if i allow for more errors

and they dont get money for old cables

fstd: turkey started rewiring all the way into the apartment in 2015, but they slowed it waaaaaay down when the turkish economy went to shit

shame

17:38

my street actuallygot some fiber runs last year

17:38

but they didn't do the houses

17:38

i guess you could pay it out of your own pocket if you really want teh gigabits

In france fiber is still in deployment, just people in countryside doesn't have the luck for now But some countries decided to deploy 5G in countryside first to get more clients

but well, i only max out my connection when torrenting anyway, and i don't torrent that much

here they did do it in the house for 200€ or so

17:38

instead of 20k

and 80 Mbit/s seems plenty

17:39

knowing what 33.6 kbit/s felt like, even more so

I asked in turkey they quoted me around 9k€ for a fiber run right now

jao

instead of 20k

wow thats cheap. i looked it up, and it costs around 10k, if i could convince my neighbours its like 1k per neighbour or smth xd

y

The other solution is to petition all the neighbours, collect signatures and you get free fiber, within 10 years...

and u have to make a deal for 2 years

17:40

after that u can change isp

17:40

but they did it in every street thats why it was so cheap

@jao at 200€ I’d guess the fiber is already in your street so you need a shorter run

nope

17:42

they had to do the entire village

Oh or maybe government funds some of it, that could also work, oooor huge demand maybe could cover the cost

both

The problem running anything underground is it’s major disruption, so no one really wants to do it unless $$$ ;P

and a lot competition here

17:43

4 isps doing it

17:43

in some streets they put 2 different cables from 2 isps

17:43

because the first 2 years the isps have exlusive use for the cable

Learath2: there's actually a nice rather new method, one sec

Mh that’s nice. In italy we get 2 major players + 4 isps running on the other 2s lines

17:44

Actually 3 major players but 1 of them owns the entirety of the last stretch so they make life hell for the competition

17:45

Privatization of telecommunications is the most retarded decision a government can make

Learath2: can't find the vid, but the general idea is that they have a small vehicle with the cable spool, and the vehicle has a mill of sorts in front of it, and a glue/resin dispenser at the rear. they'd drive along the curb, cutting a slot in it, putting the cable in, and sealing it back up in one go

17:45

which is far cheaper becoz no real digging

Ah running the cable un the curb sounds like a great idea

17:46

I guess the tradeoff is that the cable is in a more vulnerable position, right?

isnt there a min height u have to do

yeah but i've rarely seen a broken curb. but what they probably had to engineer around was trapped moisture expanding when it's freezing

17:48

which some soft cable sheath should deal with tho

didnt they put bigger empty tubes in the ground first so when theres some new technology they can just use them again instead of digging again?

no

wtf

17:51

is it activated already jao?

i guess in a perfect world that would have been done :)

im pretty sure they did it in my area

in the real world they probably chose the smallest pipes and tubings they can get away with becoz short-term savings

how would u get the cable through it

17:51

its heavy and the tube isnt straight

you feed something more maneuverable first

u cant bend it easily

and use that to pull the real cable

17:52

if you're fancy you send a robot vehicle down the tube :)

17:52

good luck

they just push the cable through.

i mean that works for plumbers in hella filthy clogged pipes

did they dig open every meter overground??

no

17:53

they make 2 holes and shoot between them

17:53

and then pull the cable

17:53

but u cant do that for long distances

yea ik

every 20m u need a hole

17:53

and u cant go in circles

oh, right, there's the feed-a-light-pilot-string-with-air-drafts way

is the company WEMAG jao?

no

meh

17:55

all manual labour is done here and everyone is just waiting for activation.

17:55

but they dont say anything

maybe they need to patch the cables

but its been about 2 months now

it takes a while

I wonder if the pull-cord technique would work for the massive underground cables too

with strong hook ye

I guess the cord would have to be very thick so when you pull the tension doesn’t break it if it snags

18:10

In other news, I just successfully calculated the jacobian for a quadruple integral. I have never done anything so painful by hand in my life

18:10

Well I guess it’s the jacobian of the bijection for the change of variables but all the same, absolute pain

i said

18:53

@Learath2's mind

18:56

i mean heinrich5991's mind

18:57

fine, i'll do it myself.

fstd: I'll play one, was cooking :P

cool

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #3629 /rank isn't working on LAN server

Reported by Logunix on Discord @Zwelf any idea?

I think this wasn't an issue with old chat?

Image attachment

Exported 323 message(s)