DDraceNetwork

why isnt there a speeder?

10:00

map is aurora and theres no way saving dummy

Probably not necessary on a5 Star map

map is 4 star, and the whole map is unfaily

map?

aurora

Not every map has to be unfaily in all ways, specially that one that it's 4 stars

theres pullers everywhere if you fail dummy gets dragged back

not every map is perfect

whats the point of this #bugs then

12:13

it wouldnt ruin the map if that edge would have been fixed

12:13

still the same

100% agree just fix old junky maps literally no one cares about their pReCioUs rAnK getting devalued

#bugs is foir client and server bugs

12:50

check the channel topic

I think it's still ok to fix maps that have really annoying parts like that

13:05

and a low strength speeder there shouldn't affect anything else. I'd apply it if some DDNet mod/tester sends a fixed version. @jao are you ok with that?

i wouldnt change it but im not active enough to decide it

its so dumb to fail there especially near the end of the map, the whole map doesnt really have a spot to fail

@ano https://i.imgur.com/2aLEHh7.png

13:10

13:11

oh jao already said it

2

We could rename the channel to software-bugs

client-bugs would be less confusing (edited)

but it's also about server-bugs

13:14

and I'd also appreciate reports about website bugs etc

an own category for bugs with channels for all

It’s not the end of the world if we get a couple map bugs too, who cares

16:42

I was playing some shitty long brutal map in team0 for 1.5 hours, then went AFK to smoke. When I came back players changed the map

16:42

is that even possible? If so - must be fixed

16:43

just losing my 1.5 hours run because I couldn't use my veto at that moment

16:43

maybe that's because I was considered as AFK and did not count as veto?

I think vetos are counted before afk, though not sure

isn't voting system always waits for all the vetos to vote?

16:44

I thought I was safe and gone afk for 5 mins

It should be, though I don't have the code in front of me right now, so no idea

if you're afk you lose your veto

COOL nice

otherwise afk people could just sit on each server and it would be impossible to change map anywhere

yes, and that should be solved in some other way

16:46

not sure what the way it is, but anyways...

16:47

do you really think I should constantly sit and play for 3+ hours on long map without going afk for 5 mins?

I understand the problem, but if you want a solution for it, we need to consider the other problems too

nobody said that's easy problem

Easiest would be to just increase the afk time to 10 min, but then lots of afks will lead to kick votes never succeeding and thus blockers have it easier

16:51

We could add an additional afk time for veto and set it to 20 min?

I thought about this

16:51

but then you can be still kicked out

It's still a bit annoying on the weak VPSes we use, because we don't have many servers there

16:52

If you played in team, we could auto-save you on map change, but you were in team 0

what if you want to go afk for long. Not sure if this is the same problem, may be shouldn't even be solved right now

16:52

but what about t0 saves?

Right, if people can't change map because of you, they'll kick you

auto-save sounds very cool

(some people)

16:53

t0 saves will not be implemented, broken on too many maps because of switches

what about t0 saves?

16:53

oh switches....

And it would be difficutl to define who is part of your "group"

no need to define

16:54

I mean just save one tee, add him some time for timer

ah

16:54

Yeah, then even worse with switches

when he loads - wait when his loading position is free then spawn him there

an additional veto afk time is something I can add and it would help a bit

Hm, why do we care about switches?

because you need them to play the maps

good question. How would it break?

you touched a switch 1 part ago, can't go back there, this switch opened a door in next part

oh, you mean when you load, but switches are gone already or something

16:55

that's not our problem then

Ah, there are switches with long lasting consequences yeah

if it does not lead to some speedrun abuses

With short ones I was thinking "user discretion"

but it leads to loading and you can't finish the map anymore

its ok

but with long ones, we can't really expect people to know everything about a map

then it's your problem. Please. Stop abandon features just beacause there are some rare ways when feature will not work (edited)

16:57

beacause right now it never works, 'cause there is no feature yet

16:57

if it would work at least for some maps its already better then nothing

16:57

in this particular case there is no that much maps with long lasting switches, so don't care about them

16:58

map will be unfinishable when saved in t0, doesn't matter

wtf t0 saves would lead to skips

16:59

solution is to not play long maps in t0

yeah, I'm afraid only about that

louis

solution is to not play long maps in t0

its not good solution

@louis would they? I thought about it for a minute or two but I couldn't figure out how I'd use it to skip anything

because I enter some hard and long map >> see some people playing in team 0 near the start >> I use my dummy to catch up with them >> we play together >> shit happens

Learath2

@louis would they? I thought about it for a minute or two but I couldn't figure out how I'd use it to skip anything

actually... They wouldn't

trust me it would

if it is skippable by using switches with save in t0 - it is skippable without saves in t0

u could /load on a stacked tee, free sg bug anywhere

you can't save here

17:01

physics is not affected

Ah, it would provide a way to get tees in one another yeah

you will load only when there is free space

u could t0 skip maps with more than 63 parts

lol

but I don't think there is anything you can do with it that you can't do with /spec

you can't load that fast

it's just an extra long /spec

imagine people /loading in the middle of a part, and it intercepts someone's drag part so they fall into kill

But /spec is disabled on most maps intentionally

Learath2

but I don't think there is anything you can do with it that you can't do with /spec

you can't touch other tees while loading!!!

Anyway, save/load in team 0 is a no-go I think

this load should wait until there is a free space on your load position

I'm implementing the longer veto afk timer

it's at least something

Yeah, save/load in t0 allows you to effectively /spec on all maps, while most maps disable it because it allows cheats

But I will probably get crucified for adding more configs

@deen I'll distract heinrich while you add the config

17:05

be quicc

haha

why didn't you make /spec wait until there is no one on the block you're specing at?

We didn't implement it, it's an old ddrace feature

then ez fix

17:06

but there is also a way to just stand afk on someone's /spec place

17:06

need to decide what to do in this situation

17:06

and there are already some maps are being made using /spec abuse

no need to fix it, just make sure new maps don't have skips with it

so I think it should be quickly implemented

theres nothing wrong with it otherwise

it breakes physics leading to some bugs and disabled /spec on most of maps

well not only tees inside eachother, /spec allows people to pass eachother in 1tile tunnels (edited)

I'm amazed how you always end up disabling cool features instead of fixing them

I don't like random tees appearing while I'm playing a part

17:09

even if they're not directly on my tile

/spec supposed to change strong

I'm amazed at how you always find a way to be annoyed, there are hundreds of people here that are perfectly fine with how spec and pause work

fix weak hooks then it's not needed anymore

We tried that multiple times

everyone is fine until you show them how it could be)

Fixing weak hooks disables "cool features" like parts that require a weaker hook, like maps that have shotgun runs

deen

We tried that multiple times

somehow a lot of players against this, but complain about weak bug anyways...

I added the veto afk time in https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/3405

No one complains about the weak bug. Weak and Strong hooks only come up when either a developer mentions them or @Skeith mentions them. People discuss for a while and remember that removing it breaks maps, so we don't remove it

fixing weak is much more serious feature to discuss, that's true (edited)