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DDraceNetwork
Development / developer
Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.tw/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories — IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet
Between 2020-09-25 00:00:00Z and 2020-09-26 00:00:00Z
00:14
woah
00:14
00:15
a 4 year old change of mine caused it.
05:57
712e9e9 stop disabling textinput during connecting - TsFreddie 32c77fa Merge #2920 - bors[bot]
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@deen of course reload doesn't log out me, but i reboot server manually after server manipulations my words sound stupidly, just thought that auto-login by server would be great
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@deen interesting but does not seems to be related. When I start glx_gears I can minimize it any amount of times and it will not hang and also it quits in instant. Also that mesa bug is fixed for that guy, but his factorio still hangs.
06:50
Ok, as it seems it only affects me. I will make a shortcut that will send couple of SIGKILLs to a process. I hope that will help it.
06:52
P.S. teeworlds uses the same technologies I think (SDL + GL) but it exits nicely. (edited)
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Anyway if it only affects me, consider it the lowest priority for now please. Happily I can debug most things with a 0.7 client.
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my words sound stupidly, just thought that auto-login by server would be great
I was thinking about how to make auto-login a safe way for such circumstances (you reload a server). I think that a solution would be to mimic a web world's thing: cookies. A client could store a blob of encrypted data that server pushes to him after a successful authentication and give a server next time before the auth. That cookie could contain an encrypted client id, some random value to increase cryptography strength and a time when client authenticated last time. This way server don't have to store client sessions or any state on it as it can take it from a client and be sure it gets a valid one and check if it has to be expired.
(edited)
07:19
Prevent cookie-stealing will be easier in tw world than in web. A cookie should be given only to the server which created it (as in web world), a client will check if that's a right server by it's ip. I think it will be sufficiently safe.
07:22
binding rcon_login (nice that we have such command) to a key is not safe. One accidentally could press it being on a malicious server
07:23
a simpler solution would be a server-based autologin, a list of commands that will execute once a client connects to a server
07:26
off course rcon_login autologin script is simpler than cookies, but if we would have a central auth system one could make a non-encrypted, but signed cookie from auth center that every server could check to authenticate a non-admin user too (edited)
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[quakenet] MalwareTele BOT 2020-09-25 07:50:10Z
hi
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[quakenet] MalwareTheTele BOT 2020-09-25 07:57:27Z
hi
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@Deleted User Or set password in you config with password <pw> like I have - but the current problem is that this password is autofilled in textfield when you join pw-protected server, but you're still seeing the enter-password-box and have to hit enter to join, instead of joining immediately if the password is correct
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@Deleted User my guess is that it might be related to the graphics things we do. You could bisect it if you really want to find the cause
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also client does remember last-used-password, so on actual rejoin you don't have to re-type it, but still have to confirm that you want to join
08:15
@deen could that ↑ be changed to immediate join?
08:17
We intentionally don't do that because it was used to steal ddnet nuclear server passwords and leak our tournament maps
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the problem is that client remembers password, then you join to another server and client automatically sends it
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and doing it only for localhost servers?
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why u password localhost
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So what is your setting on gfx_resizable then @Deleted User (edited)
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that way it's your server anyway
08:20
@Ryozuki because I don't want everyone to join it when it's registered, only the ppl I invite
08:21
and it's easier to register it & tell them to look for a server name than sending them ip
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just don't sv_register it and give people the ip? That's what I do
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@deen you mean git bisect? I could if that will help
08:21
I just not sure if that's my desktop env-related or DDNet code related
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@Deleted User Not sure about how important it is. Could be a driver bug on your side, could be a potential DDNet problem that only you notice
08:21
so your choice
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Anyway it feels an easy task that I can do. I will bisect
08:23
oh.... OH
08:23
I don't know why but it's closing instantly now for the first time
08:23
So what is your setting on gfx_resizable then @Deleted User
@Deleted User
08:23
Lol
08:24
I've added gfx_resizable 0 but it's deleted from a config after I start DDNet and exit it
08:24
maybe it's deleting options with 0 value?
08:24
Yes default values
08:24
It's fine then
08:25
No, it's not affecting atm. I can set it to 0 or 1 and it doesn't make it freeze on exit
08:25
I don't know the reason of it
08:25
But our SDL code seems to break quite a lot of setups
08:25
Next time DDNet will start freezing on exit I will bisect
08:25
Leave it to zero tho
08:25
done
08:26
What setting will maximise the probability of a problem?
08:26
I want to investigate next time
08:27
But our SDL code seems to break quite a lot of setups
Then it's not just me. I will try bisect next time to get more info.
08:27
Well setting it to one will cause minimize and maximize to send resize events. Which caused trouble on some de
08:27
oh... it's here again. I've switched to fullscreen
08:27
Well on windows it doesn't seem to grab the window.. Different problem
08:28
Though the last time it was there in a windowed mode too
08:28
I hate so much that it grabs an input. I cannot make partial screenshots
08:28
even in windowed mode
08:28
any option to prevent it from grabbing an input?
08:29
also I would like to move a window to have more than one instance visible
08:30
Dunno, just don't hit the in game screen
08:30
You mean aim for the header?
08:30
Yes xd
08:31
Ok, it will be tricky to make DDNet to lose focus. But I will try
08:33
I have stable freezes on exit now. Will bisect
08:33
gfx_resizable doesn't affect it (edited)
08:35
well... it simpler, I've deleted settings_ddnet.cfg and problem gone
08:35
it's some setting in it
08:35
I will diff & bisect a config then
08:37
It's a V-sync option
08:37
It doesn't make teeworlds hang when set
08:41
The problem was there at least 6 months ago
08:41
For some reason building older versions is failing now
08:46
Any tips on what I am doing wrong? git checkout 12.0 cd build cmake .. make clean make -j 12 result: error: ‘offset_ptr’ does not name a type; did you mean ‘offset_ptr32’?
08:46
Maybe I should use an older gcc version?
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DDNet 11.0 builds ok, problem was there 2 years ago
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[quakenet] deen BOT 2020-09-25 09:03:59Z
oh, I assumed it'sa new bug, too bad then
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Cannot build older versions. I have bam 0.4.0 but it seems that it need older SDL
09:19
anyway I can just uncheck V-Sync
09:24
My problem is solved and you have slightly more info on it. Thanks
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@Deleted User We used to have inp_grab 0, but I think we removed that. I usually press F1 to lose focus, but then you can't screenshot still
09:28
@Deleted User so maybe it's just caused by SDL2? You could try DDNet from https://ddnet.tw/downloads which was the last SDL1.2 version
09:28
DDNet 9*
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DDNet 9.3.1 still have this problem
09:47
both teeworlds 0.7 and 0.6 doesn't have it
09:49
8.1.1 has it too
09:50
6.6.8 has it
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[quakenet] deen BOT 2020-09-25 09:50:58Z
so apparently it's something we've been doing differently for a while :D
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4.8.4 does not have it
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[quakenet] deen BOT 2020-09-25 09:51:53Z
this is becoming software archeology :D
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4.8.4 doesn't have it 4.9.3 has it
09:54
no builds in between though
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[quakenet] deen BOT 2020-09-25 09:55:33Z
Do you have fifo console turned on? that was added in 4.9
09:55
[Client+Server] Threaded logger output for fewer lags could also be related
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too bad there were no docker in 2014
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[quakenet] deen BOT 2020-09-25 09:56:06Z
Oh, 4.9 switched to settings_ddnet.cfg, maybe it's just your settings that are wrong
09:56
so 4.8 used Teeworlds' settings.cfg
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I've check/uncheced V-sync in 4.8 and 4.9 (edited)
09:56
just to be sure
09:59
it's not fifo console, turned it off
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[quakenet] deen BOT 2020-09-25 09:59:50Z
could be something else in settings, try removing settings_ddnet.cfg and replacing it with settings.cfg
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ok, so next time I will be in a mood for archeology I will make a docker image to build that
10:00
I can remove all setting I guess
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[quakenet] deen BOT 2020-09-25 10:00:13Z
that's not the same
10:00
removing all will put them to ddnet defaults, using Teeworlds' settings.cfg will use Teeworlds' settings
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I need teeworlds06 settings right?
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[quakenet] deen BOT 2020-09-25 10:01:11Z
no, the existing ones probably work
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weird, removed all settings, then started teeworlds06 first, then ddnet 4.9 and now it exits properly regardless of V-Sync settings
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[quakenet] deen BOT 2020-09-25 10:02:47Z
ha, so it's some setting!
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I've removed old config :C
10:03
so I cannot tell what was wrong now
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[quakenet] deen BOT 2020-09-25 10:03:21Z
should've told you to make a backup .D
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I've thought about it
10:03
but haven't enough patience to that moment 😄
10:04
weird that I've removed config before and it didn't helped
10:04
for some reason newer DDNet makes it with something in it that make it buggy
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[quakenet] deen BOT 2020-09-25 10:04:29Z
that means we have some new default that causes the problem for you I guess
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I will try to reproduce it
10:05
Yeah! it's newer default
10:05
*defaults
10:05
4.9.4 made bad default too
10:06
4.9.3
10:06
oh noes
10:06
4.8.3 default are affected too
10:10
can someone give me their settings_ddnet.cfg?
10:11
I think that archaeology will not give me any more info.
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[quakenet] SnowFox BOT 2020-09-25 10:20:59Z
Hello world. I was casually looking at an Intel die and noticed... it looks like a DDNet map. Thoughts? The bottom section. https://techgage.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Intel-Xeon-E7-v2-Die.jpg
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Make this into a map pls
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[quakenet] SnowFox BOT 2020-09-25 10:22:02Z
Almost tempting..
10:22
Learath2: so you see it too?
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[quakenet] Learath2 BOT 2020-09-25 10:23:12Z
yep def
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$decline too repetitive
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[quakenet] SnowFox BOT 2020-09-25 10:27:09Z
Heh
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This is infc_infiltration map
10:29
oh... liquidators
10:29
10:29
Intel obviously stolen our design
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intels is obviously superior, what is this single core, with non-local cache?
10:30
someone skipped their microprocessor design class
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[quakenet] SnowFox BOT 2020-09-25 10:30:53Z
Meanwhile I wasn't looking for Intel. Looking for RISC-V dies.
10:31
Much better designs there
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I wish risc v would become more popular
10:32
x86 is just such an awful ISA
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[quakenet] SnowFox BOT 2020-09-25 10:32:36Z
Everyone with a modern nVidia GPU has many RISC-V cores. Also lots of Western Digital SSDs and high speed NICs with builtin compute.
10:33
But yes, it'd be much better if we users could use it as our main desktops, laptops, servers, and phones. Not just as raspberry pi replacements. Though this is certainly nice too.
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Yeah, it's not too uncommon in high performance embedded applications
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Even ARM is a better ISA imho. x86 is just unreadable
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[quakenet] SnowFox BOT 2020-09-25 10:35:13Z
better than x86**
10:35
x86 is just a nightmare
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I guess it's not a bar too high 😄
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I've heard someone told a guy who was defending x86 instruction set as "not as bad" that he has a Stockholm Syndrome
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[quakenet] SnowFox BOT 2020-09-25 10:38:50Z
Sounds fair
10:49
10:49
greenthing
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this guy has great talks
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Christopher Domas is god
10:50
x86 god xd
10:50
this one is good too
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Yeah, the memory sinkhole 😄
10:50
And he has a great one about fuzzing the ISA too iirc
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@Learath2 thats the first i sent
10:58
he found undocumentet instructions
10:59
hardware backdoor
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It doesn't even matter as intel have IMU which is exactly that bad
11:02
and afaik AMD have something like that too
11:03
also every modern cellular phone in the world have a separate linux machine in the communication modules which in fact manage consumer CPU and have full access to it's registeres and memory
11:04
but you probably already knew about that
11:04
it's not a backdoor, it's a main entry
11:04
I prefer to look at this as user is using a backdoor to access "his" computer or phone which is not his
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did u see the video?
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no
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you should
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Is that about IMU or something else?
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this has nothing to do with mobile phones
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I mean I know that my system has IMU and this is separate computer that have access to everything in my system and I don't have acess to it
11:07
IMU is not about phones too
11:07
The Intel Management Engine (ME), also known as the Intel Manageability Engine, is an autonomous subsystem that has been incorporated in virtually all of Intel's processor chipsets since 2008. It is located in the Platform Controller Hub of modern Intel motherboards. The Intel...
11:07
but it resembles me of comm_cpu -> cpu relationship in mobile phones which is like that too
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i dont remember him saying anything about IMU
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This is a different idea
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yeah right
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you rly should watch the video
11:07
this guy is another thing
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my point is if you have IMU you don't have to bother about security or privacy, you don't own the system
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"you dont have to bother"
11:08
weak mentality
11:08
shut down curiosity just because x exists
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@Ryozuki iirc he has another talk on just the fuzzing aspect
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yeah, if your system is designed to overcome your privacy then flaws in protection of security doesn't matter much
11:09
one thing is when a criminal beat you on the street, that should be dealed with as it's a crime
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IME is one big conspiracy theory. I don't think it's likely that not one person leaked this secret entrance
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if police do the same nothing you can do, that's the way your country works
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@Learath2 he also made that compiler using only mov instructions iirc
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so if you have IMU in your system, it doesn't matter much what other accidental treats to your privacy manufaturer has added
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The single instruction C compiler. Contribute to xoreaxeaxeax/movfuscator development by creating an account on GitHub.
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as he intentionally added a front-door
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a genius
11:11
IME is one big conspiracy theory. I don't think it's likely that not one person leaked this secret entrance
@Learath2 agree
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I've made evolutionary programming once based on 1 instruction agents. It was fun
11:12
Though I wasn't been able to replicate whitepaper results
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Also this kind of veeery low level backdoor is hardly ever useful. You need an active attack as you neither have much processing power in these small cores nor do you have much storage to store the data you gather
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mov + xor is not the same as "made from movs"
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It's extremely hard to extract anything meaningful from the millions of instructions going through the multiple cores
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millions or billions
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@Learath2 are you serious? IME have it's separate access to network and you cannot firewall it on OS level. Time doesn't matter if something malicious and remote controlled will get into IMU code which is rather possible. Some manufacturers don't even lock IMU fw
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It's extremely hard to extract anything meaningful from the millions of instructions going through the multiple cores
That's not the way hacking works I think.
11:14
IMU just can load any code to memory and tell CPU to run it.
11:15
IMU have full unrestricted access to CPU and memory and peripheral. See wiki link above
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I can give you a couple million instructions I ran on my computer and you tell me what my password is
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and CPU cannot control it or even tell if IMU intervened it
11:16
why anyone wants your password?
11:16
if he have full access to your PC memory and CPU already
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It takes a very smart person to do anything with the instruction stream, or the memory
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wdym? C++ exploits are not that smart. They just injects a payload and then CPU runs it
11:17
yes it requires a hacker to be smarter than average person, right
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You inject the payload into the relevant application, you know the context
11:18
When you are on such a low level, there is no context
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but you don't have to inspect instruction stream with IMU, you can just tell CPU run a payload
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What would you get the CPU to run?
11:19
There is no do_steal_data instruction there, nor any way for you to even refer to the data
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ok, I see. not a treat to you
11:19
*threat
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No concept of ATA, no concept of kernel, no concept of processes, nor memory mappings
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a kernel module will be enough I guess
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You don't know where the kernel is, nor what kernel it is
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but it's nice that you feel safe
11:20
that's why IMU is not banned I think
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The concern with the IME is that it can't be audited, which leads to security vulns often
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most people think that's it's safe to have a separate CPU they don't control in their system with full access (even greater than supervisor has) to everything (edited)
11:21
I don't know why this idea does not scare people
11:21
mostly I think it's because they think "I am a smart person and I would not write a hack for it in a month"
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If you watch that talk ryozuki linked, the guy managed to get access even more complete than the IME. Yet he didn't create a practical attack with it, except for a couple toy examples
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which leads them to think nobody can or will be interested
11:22
yeah, all those vulnerabilities even meltdown ones are not too practical
11:23
but having IMU in your system is a different thing, it's more like having a robot arm that can press keys on your keyboard to download and run anything it need
11:23
but I see you don't think it's dangerous or practical
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Look, I'd prefer it if it wasn't there, but it's far beyond the capabilities of anyone that would care to hack me
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ok
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If a government level entity wants something from me, they can just send cops and given I'm not a CIA operative I'd tell them everything they want to know before they snap my arm off
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IMU firmware can be updated from OS if it's not locked by manufacturer
11:24
and it mostly is not locked
11:25
it's not a gov thing
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troll 1
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yeah, universal argument on everything
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If such a backdoor is used by manufacturers, it would have been leaked. So if such a backdoor exists, it has to be available to a very small select group of people
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anyway, I've shared my concerns to raise awareness. If you don't imagine how bad it is, then nothing I can do there
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IME also has integrity checks, so not like you can goof around with it, it doesn't run anything intel doesn't sign
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@Learath2 and these select master genious prob have the skill to hack u on a higher level easily too
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Again the concern is that it's not very secure. Many people bypassed the integrity check
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IME also has integrity checks, so not like you can goof around with it, it doesn't run anything intel doesn't sign
There are articles on how poorly access control is implemented. Don't rely on those integrity checks.
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@Ryozuki yeah, it's far easier to just freeze the server/computer as is and extract the bytes of memory
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And I've read articles which show how easy to overcome most of countermeasures in IMU to use your firmware if it's not fully locked with fuses.
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@Deleted User I'm fairly certain not a single case of remote replacement of the IME firmware happened
11:29
All the attacks I've read required physical access
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What do you mean by physical access?
11:29
Firmware of IME is updated from OS, not by attaching wires to a chip.
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I mean having either access to a physical terminal that is already logged in as root, or a remote terminal logged in as root
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So if one compromise a system with not locked IMU and will infect it and lock it one will never know that it is still there running.
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I don't see what you gain by replacing my ME firmware when you already have root
11:30
A kernel patch/module is far more powerful than a ME firmware replacement
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Because if you infect IMU it will work even if you will wipe your OS and install another one.
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I guess, but I'd never know they got in either way. Not like I wipe my OS every day
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So not knowing that you're infected feels safe?
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Though, if I was doing something VERY shady, like selling thermonuclear devices to the chinese, I'd use a riscv board
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make ur own cpu
11:32
monkalaugh
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You can, the riscv architecture is open
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Ok, I see. You don't have anything to hide.
11:33
It's common I guess.
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That's a common misconception
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Beats any talk about privacy all the time.
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It's not that I don't have anything to hide. It's that the things I want to hide are already secure from the people that'd want to get access to them.
11:35
I honestly do not believe that a single person/group powerful enough to have access to an IME 0day would use it to see what kind of porn I watch or my credit card details
11:35
its more probs against goverments
11:36
what trump does
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As I said, if I had something to hide that was actually this critical, I'd indeed use something much more secure than an off the shelf intel processor
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I'd probably use something like a c64 I guess
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@Learath2 do u know if stallman said something about propietary hardware
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I think I heard him talk/write about free hardware, don't remember anything about proprietary hardware and it's evils specifically
11:38
ohh
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Yeah, I'd encrypt everything on some old ass computer, only ever let already encrypted stuff on my insecure computer
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Thus, the concept we really need is that of a free hardware design.
11:39
i guess riscv is good then
11:39
the raspberry pi?
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I love risc v, if only it had enough performance for desktop computing
11:40
Raspi uses an arm core, haven't read much on the security of arm but it's definitely very proprietary hardware
11:41
hardware that respects ur freedom
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Freedom comes at the cost of performance in this decade, sadly 😦
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hardware-wise probably
11:42
software-wise maybe not
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Security vs convenience as usual
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not even stallman went full stallman iirc
11:42
monkalaugh
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e.g. I have not seen any "freedom oriented" wifi adapter that supports high performance 802.11k roaming
11:43
So your very secure laptop will roam wifi like it's 2008
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I think ISA doesn't matter all that much nowadays. Nearly no one writes in assembly, existing compilers do all the heavy lifting from software side. And on the hardware side something similar happened with translation of ISA to micro operations, so most of Intel's CPU engineers probably don't have to deal with x86-64. And the translation doesn't take that much space on the die.
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One stallman at 99% of stallman is ok. But 1kk of 1% stallmans are much better.
11:43
I just want people to shift their awareness and habbits a little bit.
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@deen but wouldn't it be nice to actually be able to reason about the assembly that's written? I think even the compilers would get much better with a clean ISA
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So next time they choose something they will +1% to probability to make a better choice towards individual and thus collective privacy.
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(except for sane guarantees like memory consistency)
11:45
@Learath2 sure, but is it worth the effort of rewriting things?
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@deen The compilers can do the heavy lifting in this case too
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yeah, but considering how many x86-64 compilers there are, quite some work porting them all
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how much?
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and people using intrinsics for vectoring will have to rewrite too
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I think it's 4 of them in 99% of cases.
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Yeah vectoring is a large concern
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I think there needs to be some other factor to switch to another ISA, other than being "more sane"
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@Learath2 what is vectoring?
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I've seen a start of a video. It's about rowhammer, right? (edited)
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@deen yeah, which is why I doubt we'll ever get a sane ISA
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Ah i see
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There is even motivation to stay with these arcane closed architectures for the current major vendors
11:50
They get to hide their secrets in the massive mess that is x86/arm, they get to keep their advantage of being one of the few people to know how to implement these architectures
11:50
An open ISA with a fixed instruction length makes it trivial for new players to start working on designs
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No one can implement another x86 CPU anyway, only Intel, AMD and Via have the license
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Who even sold the license?
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Must have been some internal deal between these 3 companies
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Oligopoly gang rise up
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I mean AMD was always Intel clone CPUs in the start, and Intel was happy to adopt their amd64
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IA64 had some cute features
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yes cute
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But backwards compatibility always wins
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not always, it's actual only for some period
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Besides if IA64 had taken hold, we'd be in much worse shape with intel being a monopoly instead of there being an oligopoly
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do you build for x86 now or have you dropped support?
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An illusion of choice is better than no choice 😄
11:57
@Deleted User we do for windows, not for linux iirc
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are there many games with cpus w/o x64 support?
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@Learath2 do u think if a new architecture was made nowadays would be faster or is there some kind of limit rn
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yeah, linux marketing politicy on x64 is weird (edited)
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@Ryozuki Not by much, as deen said, translation is rarely ever a bottleneck
11:58
A fixed length ISA does make it absolutely trivial to fetch an instruction though
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@Deleted User we build for x86 still
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Currently fetching an x86 instruction is actually quite tough. You can take a look at Domas' talk on fuzzing, it shows how many disassemblers actually sometimes disagree on how a set of bytes should be disassembled
11:59
With a fixed length, you just fetch e.g. 4 bytes and that's it
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is Moore's law true btw
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I can even read simpler sections of PowerPC bytecode with just a table
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@Ryozuki depends on who you ask
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what does that mean
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I never quite understood why they called it a "Law"
12:01
Isn't it more like a hypothesis? Not like there is any proof for it
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The ones who are deep in the matter will see that some method is slowing down and can't scale into the future, so they assume moore's law will stop
12:01
but some new technology often comes along and gives better scaling
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(even with infinite precision, we can only etch transistors so fine before they start not behaving like transistors)
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The physical limits to transistor scaling have been reached due to source-to-drain leakage, limited gate metals and limited options for channel material. Other approaches are being investigated, which do not rely on physical scaling. These include the spin state of electron spintronics, tunnel junctions, and advanced confinement of channel materials via nano-wire geometry.[108] Spin-based logic and memory options are being developed actively in labs.[109][110]
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So I guess if you think of a processor in the conventional way of an etched silicon die, I think we are doomed 😄
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spin based logic
12:03
gotta search what that is
12:04
Spintronics (a portmanteau meaning spin transport electronics), also known as spin electronics, is the study of the intrinsic spin of the electron and its associated magnetic moment, in addition to its fundamental electronic charge, in solid-state devices. The field of spintro...
12:04
i guess
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It's a rather tough problem to put binary logic in terms of electron spin though, so I wouldn't expect much to come of it for many years
12:06
Jim Keller is such a good presenter
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What I find more interesting is how much more efficient you can make computation, might also correlate a bit with scaling CPUs further down. The currently known theoretical limit (Landauer's principle) says that only deleting bits has to cost, reversible calculations can be done for free. And we're still quite far from that limit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landauer%27s_principle
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Biological computing research shows that biological material has superior information density and energy efficiency compared to silicon-based computing
12:06
lmao
12:07
i see
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@deen though it is one massive challange to get close to these fundamental limits
12:10
I sometimes wonder, how much more computation power do we realistically need
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Scientific laws or laws of science are statements, based on repeated experiments or observations, that describe or predict a range of natural phenomena. The term law has diverse usage in many cases (approximate, accurate, broad, or narrow) across all fields of natural science ...
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it makes sense to call it law
12:12
by reading the first paragraph
12:12
atleast to me
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Yeah, I thought predictions wouldn't constitute laws
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im still waiting for github to add dark mode
12:18
i wonder whats preventing them to do so
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Eh the dark mode userscript works great for me
12:24
I kinda gave up on github ever adding one 😄
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Userscripts are great but I'd prefer discord to actually hide blocked user's messages from me without need to install greasemonkey in my browser.
12:25
Just another justification to install greasemonkey ^ 😄
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I really pray'd hard for discord to die off, but it just never did 😦
12:26
Now discord is one huge privacy violation
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Why? Discord is the best in terms of privacy. I can get here with VPN on and with all privacy scripts and not get banned.
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Imagine a company providing free communication, video/audio/text with servers all around the world, with barely any advertising at all. I wonder who is the product
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People who cannot defend themselves. At least discords allow me to do that.
12:27
For example telegram and sky don't allow me.
12:27
*skype
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You can try. You get to hide who you are from discord sure, but it doesn't really care who exactly are you
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That's good?
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Even the statistics are valuable
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Nice. At least this is the last place like that where one can enter without giving a mobile phone number.
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Not only that, I've read a very interesting paper on analysis of writing patterns. They managed to identify the owners of completely anonymized chats in a pool of 1000 people with very good accuracy
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10 bits of identifying information is not much
12:29
and it's not related to discord
12:30
statistical attack on your wording style can be executed anywhere
12:30
and there is no evidence discord is doing it and other don't
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Interesting that this much more common form of privacy breach is of no concern to you but a fringe IME attack with only a handful capable parties on earth concerns you?
12:33
You are one interesting person, I'll give you that
monkalaugh 1
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@Deleted User did your vpn get banned connecting to official ddnet game servers btw?
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no
12:38
But I don't play DDRace or block
12:38
I play CTF and infClass only
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IME is evil but if you use mainboard with non-Intel network card, IME has no access to network and becomes harmless
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Interesting that this much more common form of privacy breach is of no concern to you
It concerns me too.
12:39
But there is a difference on impact: full control on my system and just 10 bits of identifying information that I have voluntary given.
12:39
@Comrade IME has control over memory and host CPU isn't it?
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I don't think it's harmless then.
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@Comrade even very extended tests on the IME with a firewall inbetween didn't detect any traffic from it for years. If it is smuggling information out, it's doing it bits/bytes at a time, extracting the data at the hops, with major collaboration from thousands of providers
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It's like having a brain parasite without access to moving a finger on your left foot then.
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it is harmless, because even with full memory access it can't do anything useful without crashing your OS
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Tell it to exploit writers all over the globe.
12:41
There are userspace exploits and kernel ones. And they work well.
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but IME firmware is almost always older than your kernel (edited)
12:42
exploits usually don't work this way
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@Comrade you can mount active attacks with it, I've only read of one where they used an external computer to analyze the instruction stream and inject instructions to execute a kernel exploit
12:42
I've seen another one with writing memory markers into the ram, to extract information. Again required an external computer to do the analysis
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external computer
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Ok, give me access to all IME in the world and given my morals will be ok with it I will find a way to make a framework to detect what kernel version runs on the host machine and to inject the right kernel module to it.
12:43
You only need to be motivated and a business plan to use it.
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I will give you access to a computer I'll connect to the network if you want
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Nothing impossible here.
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You can have as much time as you want to exploit it
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I will not gain from your computer.
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but nobody has remote access to your IME
12:43
it's just locked down in your computer
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I'll put 1000e of bitcoins on it?
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But if I will be IME exploit writer I could think how to monetise so many backdoors.
12:44
You will not put them.
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@Comrade if anyone does it's intel
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Intel can magically bypass all those NATs and firewalls? 😄
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@Comrade they can sneak in bits/bytes of information to it if providers cooperate
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you think IME adds some additional data to your network traffic?
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I don't, but it's the only feasible way to mount this global conspiracy without a soul actually being able to prove it
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IME is definitely a bad thing, but its offline version (consumer-grade hardware) can't be exploited without full access to the target computer
12:47
so exploiting IME is quite pointless
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Except for a backdoor you can persist over system reinstallations
12:48
but you don't need IME for that 😄
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You could indeed flash the bios too
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UEFI is far enough and easier to do such thing
12:48
some manufactures even do that
12:48
"legally" 😄
12:49
but they don't care about Linux, so we are in safe
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If I was thinking of hacking an iranian nuclear plant, I would probably look into an IME exploit though
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Intel can magically bypass all those NATs and firewalls
why one needs to traversal nat for outbound connection?
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Firewalls would be the concern there
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The spacing between rank time & skin is kinda small in cases of more players on server
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You probably would never get an entire packet out of a properly configured network with a firewall
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@Learath2 just do port scan of iranian IP ranges and use some SSH with default login 😄
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or the time is off completely, not sure
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@Soreu time looks completely off, I wonder what went wrong there
12:50
Will investigate
12:51
it's off also with less players actually
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Lol, sorry guys, but 0.7 teeworlds is affected by this mortning archaeological bug too 😄
12:52
I've deleted it's settings too and with defaults it's as buggy
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The fact that we are missing proper text centering is very sad
12:52
You need to rene
12:52
You need to render the text 4 times to get it center 😄
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proper text rendering is always big fun 😄
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@TsFreddie made a really nice rework for 0.7 which finally introduces proper text rendering to teeworlds
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Ah I see the issue, huh how did that go unnoticed so long
13:06
13:06
This is how it's supposed to look like I think
13:06
(except the red rect I used for debugging)
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how will it look with longer times?
13:09
like 100 or 1000 min?
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We reserve enough for 00:00:0
13:10
Always
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At least ddnet is not crashes on 4-lines multiline broadcast ad 0.7 did.
13:10
*as
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I think 0 is the widest digit
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it looks to be set on left instead of middle, so one more digit should fit
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don't enable ids in scoreboard justatest
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why?
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Lol we reserve enough for 00:00:0 but we don't even format the times that way
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We only do %02d:%02d
13:14
Should I add the hours while at it?
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I guess, wouldn't hurt
13:16
While we're at weird time formats. The timer at top's deciseconds seem to be totally wrong 😄
13:16
I think we should just remove them
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Where do I make the moderator complaint?
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[quakenet] ChillerDragon BOT 2020-09-25 13:19:25Z
u dont
13:19
staff is untouchable
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Don't listen to the weirdo from irc
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[quakenet] ChillerDragon BOT 2020-09-25 13:19:59Z
oof
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Just DM any admin about staff complaints
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I think .me' reported this to me 7 years ago and I've been noticing that they're wrong since then. Time to remove I guess, they don't seem useful anyway.
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It wouldn't be a problem to post a video recording link to the forum ?
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[quakenet] ChillerDragon BOT 2020-09-25 13:21:22Z
it would
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for proof
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[quakenet] ChillerDragon BOT 2020-09-25 13:21:38Z
because public staff complaint is actually not very welcome on ddnet
13:21
its silly ik
13:21
just switch to bbnet there is no staff
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There also seem to be a problem with our auto reconnect code, it crashes after a while :/
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[quakenet] ChillerDragon BOT 2020-09-25 13:22:19Z
like clientcrash?
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[quakenet] ChillerDragon BOT 2020-09-25 13:22:30Z
:/
13:22
maybe i shouldnt have downgraded that fast
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hi @murpi
darkHug 1
banhammer 1
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@ABOO message an admin directly via dms
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Hm, doesn't look as well as I thought it would
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@Learath2 that should be right-aligned, not left
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dm snail
13:28
monkalaugh
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I'll handle it from the forum
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Public staff complaints are not appreciated on the forum either
13:29
Hm the padding is also way off on the 64p version of the scoreboard, I wonder why
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then where do i complain
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You DM an admin as I and 3 other people told you now
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Or u get banned
13:30
Like me monkalaugh
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Why kid
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You DM an admin as I and 3 other people told you now
@Learath2 understood thank you
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@Saiborg 's game freezes even more often on Multeasymap, around spawn :f
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Guess the padding needs to scale down for the 64p one for some reason
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literally 5 freezes and force restarts in less than 3 mins
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Froze again now xD Im taking a break
13:32
Always at the same spot
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you got screenshot again maybe?
13:33
how is it always in same spots
13:33
like wtf
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Is it forbidden to swear in the game
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no, but i can get one... im sure it will freeze in same spot again.. 1 min xD
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@Saiborg with entities? Anything special you're doing?
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@ABOO type /rules after joining any DDNet's server
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@deen Yeah entities. Well it freezes when i try to jump over the first obstale in multieasymap
13:34
just a few places though
13:35
at the beginning
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try without entitites overlay enabled
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moderator takes sides I blocked the kid who did block she banned me ,did nothing to her
13:37
ım not speak english translate make
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@ABOO please write that in a DM to an admin and not publicly
13:37
and especially not in #developer channel
13:39
Its always this spot it freezes at... as you can see, i can climb through the other ones
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oh, you have a background map enabled in entities, that might be related
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How is this?
13:42
I can try centering it aswell
13:43
I think it looks kinda odd with the heading left aligned, maybe I should center/right align the heading instead?
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@deen Oh can that be the reason? Ill try without it
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when reconnecting after server was full: [2020-09-25 15:39:34][client]: offline error='This server is full' Source and destination overlap in strncpy(0xd3328e2, 0xd3328e2, 255) at 0x483DFDC: strncpy (vg_replace_strmem.c:550) by 0x249180: str_copy (system.c:2328) by 0x27E1F5: CClient::Connect(char const, char const) (client.cpp:707) by 0x287864: CClient::Update() (client.cpp:2914) by 0x28891B: CClient::Run() (client.cpp:3216) by 0x28EDEC: main (client.cpp:4309)
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That was a quick fix 😄
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@Saiborg would be interesting to know, yes
13:44
@Learath2 i was searching for @Saiborg 's bug with valgrind and happened upon this randomly. Is that what you saw before?
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I would guess so
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@Learath2 looks fine to me
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I'll double check after I commit the scoreboard thing
13:45
You think it's fine with the heading left aligned and the time right aligned?
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I tried with %current% and still freezes... will try without anything
13:47
Seems to work if i dont have any BG at all 🙂
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@Learath2 yeah
13:47
@Saiborg thanks, will try to reproduce with background
13:47
never used that feature before
13:48
@deen I take that back, froze again :/
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ok, too bad
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I think it have something to do with the hardware though. This game has never frozen on my desktop, only laptop
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Ah, might be needing too much power
13:50
You can try setting cl_refresh_rate 480 and gfx_refresh_rate 120
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would be cool if the hook collision line would work with hook tele
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I think I like right aligned better
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Yes, but the problem is there can be multiple teles and the server randomly decides which out-tele is used
13:53
looks fine @Learath2
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ah right
13:53
tele isnt actually random tho.
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@Learath2 now check id's in scoreboard darkAyaya
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i mean not completely
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@deen want to get this very bg so it would be most accurate tests? xd
13:55
bg was irrelevant
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@murpi should work just fine, we just pretend the name has the id in that case
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@Learath2 It's not alligned with the name column if you enable id's, just looks weird
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@murpi Huh, I'll take a look, it looked fine though I think
14:00
clang-format nuked a bit of my change
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Should I go through and clang-format all of DDNet code base?
14:01
the main problem with that is cherry-picking stuff from TW and other mods cherry-picking from us
14:01
(but same problem with the current slow reformatting)
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Huh, IDs add some odd padding, I'll fix that too, thanks @murpi
14:02
@deen I think we should just go thru with it, though let's wait for heinrich
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I think heinrich agreed with it
14:04
We still have some large changes in drafts, they will get conflicts
14:05
but not so hard to fix with formatting
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@Learath2 some tune params are wrong in 0.7. Especially player_collision, player_hook and jetpack_speed
14:08
when I set player_collision it set's player_hook in tw 0.7 (edited)
14:08
and when I set player_hook it sets nothing
14:08
so player_collision is always 5.0
14:09
I've tried to remove all conditionals from code for faketunes but it didn't helped
14:10
everything is fine with a ddnet client
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laser_damage was removed in 0.7
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Hm, long names overlap so hard on the smaller scoreboards
14:10
I don't think I can fix it
14:10
I'll just stop for now
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@redix so I should skip laser_damage tune for 0.7 client and it could fix that
14:11
I will try, thanks
14:12
yeah, laser damage is set to 5.0 so this makes sense
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@deen Tried it, and working so far. Will report if i get any more freeze 🙂
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@Learath2 maybe add a threshold how long names can be displayed, if it exceeds the treshhold it will just "..." e.g WWWWWW...
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@Saiborg glad to hear. this means your hardware is unstable unfortunately. probably a power supply or cpu/gpu issue
14:14
other games might also get bugs when they need lots of resources
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Hmm alright, thanks 🙂
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You said swearing was not forbidden
14:17
chat mute got it
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It's working. Wait for a PR
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How is this game?
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thanks @redix !
14:19
Should I make a bugfix branch in ddnet repo for a PR or I don't have such permissions and should do a fork first?
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I wonder if this should get a more generic solution
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How to invoke a clang beautifier? (bonus: on a block in vscode)
14:35
or is this not strict as other lines use the same style too?
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I think there was an extension for vscode, I don't remember tho. I don't use it personally
14:36
What you want is to run our fix_style python script, that only fixes the parts you touched
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should I reset last commit to make them into a stage first?
14:37
it seems I need that
14:38
--base HEAD~
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isn't it makes the same thing as git reset HEAD~
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I mean python scripts/fix_style.py --base HEAD~
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murpi is blocker moderator
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ah
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@ABOO stop offtopic
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@murpi y u block?
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no proof
BAN 1
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Lol, that's almost an admission of guilt. I'll remove murpi from mod
justatest 2
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Imagine being moderator just to be able to block with impunity.
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pls no I did nuffing
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no proof you did nothing
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im just a sheep waiting in spec, eating grass and llistening to complaints 24/7 on multimap ismesad
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waiting to block?
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Ur not sheep. Am 🐑
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girls do block murpi:I did not see sorry men block murpi:come here
ww 1
14:49
cringe
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@Learath2 fake sheep
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DeathSinger
14:50
?
14:50
There is a video recording
14:51
speeches came out video
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Anyway, very off-topic
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#off-topic
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e7d830a bugfix: laser_damage was removed from tunes of 0.7 protocol - pure-luck-999 3cd0f30 laser_damage bugfix styling - pure-luck-999 f63f693 Merge #2925 - bors[bot]
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I think I'll redo the scoreboard
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Does anyone have any requests they want to see done about the scoreboard while I rewrite it?
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what do you want to change?
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Nothing
15:00
I want it to be clean 😄
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@Learath2 more info 😄
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i'm ok with how it looks atm
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supplemental fields
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I'll have it resize more fluidly too, so things actually fit
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but it will be hard I think
15:01
I'd liked to add some text fields to the score table. But it's highly optional
15:01
I use clan table right now for that
15:02
and add I to clan name for iZombie (initial one)
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8cdc406 Don't str_copy into string itself - def- 32c3cba Fix scoreboard alignment issues - Learath2 5f6ba34 Merge #2923 #2924 - bors[bot]
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ah nevermind
15:03
it's fine as it is
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Is MySQL support stable?
15:11
can i use it instead of SQLite?
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It should be fairly stable, though it might take a while for you to understand the way it's set up
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morning
15:14
what did i miss
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I am using SQLite in teeworlds already for my custom queries. And I know how to deploy MySQL. (edited)
15:16
@TsFreddie intel is using IME but that's not a problem. We should make teeworlds on a Risc-V machine. murpi is banned for blocking. I've had my first PR merged into ddnet 😉 (edited)
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We didn't settle on the IME thing that discussion could have went either way still
15:55
Time to delay all prs till octobe for hacktoberfest
15:55
monkalaugh
15:55
October*
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woah
16:48
diff city
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Diff so large it broke my phone
16:51
Had to restart it
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every time i open any file on github on my phone the browser hang
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imagine reviewing 30k line changes tho
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Who adds skins to skindb?
17:20
Or: how do I add custom X-skin there?
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You can't add skins. I don't know who adds them now though. There used to be a skindb crew adding/removing stuff
18:34
Not sure if any of them are still around 😄
18:37
Okay, I've again started coding too many things at a time
18:37
I'll finish up the integrity check thing first
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@Learath2 I'd guess right now it would be Ravie, Louis and me, since we're cleaning up the DB
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Not sure if any of them are still around 😄
@Learath2 I'm still here, just that skin section is pretty quiet these days 🙁
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I'd wanted to upload there some skins with X-flag for my server only
20:47
(they will not be suitable for other servers I guess)
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I reviewed it with git diff in command line, blazing fast compared to github
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reviewed the clang-format?
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yeah, but still got some problems, need to fix some includes in system.c
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can you remove the formatting in hash_libtomcrypt.c?
21:10
it's imported from elsewhere
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sure, I only excluded external directory for now
21:15
Should I move it to external? I feel like everything outside of external should follow our formatting
21:15
hm, but it's not really external, just adapted
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I guess you can also not exclude it
21:20
it's adapted, as you say
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9f9ccac Create ALLOW_X_SKINS game info flag - def- 00b6636 Allow zooming on city mod - def- 9ab8de5 fix clang-format - def- f2386d5 Address reviewer comments - def- c6ade7e Merge #2917 - bors[bot]
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what is x_skins?
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skins prefixed with x_
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only for MOD type skins?
21:35
eh, got it
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they are by default ignored by the client
21:36
and in the future mods can specify ALLOWX_SKINS to tell the client that it should show skins with x
21:36
mods can use that to send some skins to client that we would not consider tee-ish or appropriate for regular playing
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can be x_skins downloaded from server?
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from skin db
21:37
so the mod author would have to submit their skins to our skin db
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hm nice idea
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it's for pure_luck's infection mod
21:37
or was requested by him at least
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thats nice, then i can create colored ninja without teamflag
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@Deleted User for what mod?
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4 teams fng
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@Deleted User Soreu, louis, Ravie
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@deen could you try BreakConstructorInitializers: AfterColon to fix the ultra long line in CDemoEdit::CDemoEdit?
22:11
seems to match the before style better, anyway, e.g. in http.cpp
22:17
also video.cpp
22:18
in src/engine/server/databases/connection.cpp, the string literals' indentation should be fixed by putting the indentation into the string literal
22:19
put a few spaces into the beginning of each string literal that should be indented
22:21
AlignEscapedNewlines: DontAlign
22:21
pelase
22:27
the } while of do-while bothers me, but the option to fix that only comes in clang-format 12
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yeah, one line enums can also only be done with cf12
22:28
the colon helps
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the colon?
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BreakConstructorInitializers: AfterColo
22:28
n
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ah
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but seems to increase the diff size
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hm interesting
22:29
I guess I only saw this style in the diff because the other style didn't get changed
22:29
still tending to AfterColon, works better to not create long lines
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thanks for fixing the includes btw, that was probably a pain
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wasn't too bad
22:32
we could look into using something like iwyu, but i had bad experiences, needed lots of fine-tuning
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ah, interesting tool
22:33
probably needs to be aware about system headers though
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where it cannot assume that what's there currently is also available on all other systems
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pushed again
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crapnet.cpp has misaligned comment after reformatting
22:40
I made it through!
22:41
just 50k lines of unified diff
22:41
i used git diff -w and just skimmed
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in the beginning I was more diligent until I realized that vim showed me that I was at 5%
22:42
we don't really need the scripts/fix_style.py anymore, do we?
22:43
now that simply every file can be formatted
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how should people fix the broken formatting that they introduce? just run clang-format on the entire dir?
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maybe I'll write a script that runs clang-format on the entire dir
22:43
lemme do that now
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but it's faster to run it only on changed files
22:43
so I adapted fix_style to do that
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but it was a source of confusion, it's hard to pass the correct arguments to fix_style
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true, would probably be easier
22:44
but takes a few seconds
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maybe I'll make it look at the last ten commits?
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hm, no, that seems too random
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by default
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let's just change fix_style.py to look at all files?
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okay
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I can do that since I changed it around anyway
22:45
if that's ok for you
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it's fine
22:45
maybe keep the dry-run parameter for CI
22:46
hm, actually I'm probably going to sleep 😄
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good night, thanks for resurrecting the clang-format PR
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I think you have permissions to push on my PR, or you could merge it and make a new PR to change it
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ok
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i have fixed all that you wrote
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including crapnet?
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well, I just removed the comment's indentation
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yep, that's good
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the alternative would be // clang-format off
22:47
but didn't want that
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nah
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demo still has issues right?
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not for that
22:48
@deen great, thank you 🙂
22:48
I'll probably merge the PR then and make a new one
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I can try to fix some conflicts in other PRs tomorrow morning
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f11679a Implement censoring words on server - def- 8b399ba Merge #2861 - bors[bot]
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we just hit 3 000 000 teehistorian files 🙂
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