DDraceNetwork - mapping

DDraceNetwork

DDraceNetwork / mapping

Here you can talk about mapping, ask mapping related questions or request new ratings for released maps

Between 2020-09-11 00:00:00Z and 2020-09-12 00:00:00Z

map releases are pretty constant for a long time

05:26

if we release the 13 maps now they wouldn’t be constant anymore because there aren’t another 13 maps to release next week

release 6 maps then

Wtf 200 maps in a month

2 maps per week is a pretty good rate imo

09:10

especially when its not holidays

09:11

maybe 3 if theres a solo or a dummy

We have alot of maps in testing right now and i feel like we will always have many maps there, if we only release 2 maps per week. Right now there are 13 maps ready for release and some other maps just need a last check to be ready, so releasing more maps at this time wouldn't be an issue if we look at the amount of maps we have. If these 13 maps were like t0 moderate-brutal maps, i would agree that only 2 releases per week is enough, but we have 4 novice maps and 3 dummy maps and a solo map there. I think we can release more than e.g. a novice map + a dummy map in a week xD

10:21

Holding back novice maps is also weird for me, i don't think typical novice players look on the releases anyways xD

New players don't care about the new maps, if they do, they wouldn't be playing multimap or maps like that all the time

10:40

We can be more consistent with map releases these days cause they are a lot of new players and there are some novices they can work with

Yes, on novice maps the only competition is getting a good time for good players, beginners don't really care. But for difficult maps it's also the competition of being the first one to complet it, so it makes sense to announce the release

Announcements are cool for the mappers (if they want to be there when the release happens).

1

Lets just make people wait 3 months for maps

14:25

Do they lose interest in the game and dont play at all

14:26

Many mappers would map more if there would be more releases

14:27

If I map now I have to wait A month for release that is so fucking stupid

thats so irrelevant

14:41

by far the biggest part of waiting time comes from testing

14:41

thats bloated with map

14:41

not ready map that arent released..

14:42

right now we are stacked with ready map but u cant realistically assume its always gonna be that way

14:43

even if we were to release every ready map right now u would wait X months before a release on ur new map because they are 40 other maps in testing (edited)

14:43

and rushing releases will potentially hinder next months' releases if we dont have enough new rdy maps to release

but it doesnt look like the amount of maps is going to get less is it?

idk?

14:59

weve had about 10 ready maps within the last week

14:59

which is a huge spike

14:59

how do u predict this will be consistent?

i feel like it wasnt only the last week. so maybe youre preparing for a recline of maps that might not come in the near future. maybe just adapt slightly to it and post a diverse selection of maps in a smaller timeframe

we already release more maps now than 1 month ago

15:02

doesnt mean we have to increase it like crazy just because there are a lot ready maps atm

just check the ready channels

15:03

there are literally 10 maps that got ready between 02/09 and 05/09

15:03

as for the past maps u can check the releases (edited)

we had similar cases in the past already

15:03

were there were a lot maps to release

15:03

then there were times where there were no maps to release

You can't compare to one month ago because on DDnet birthday we released around 15 maps

15:34

Maybe if we revoque some rules such as 1 map per mapper, and others stuff that people complain, we would have more testing maps. Some of them need a final look to be ready, so I don't see any problem with being more consistent

So what about releasing 3 maps per week until we only have like 5 maps left and then release 2 maps per week? What is even the problem about releasing 0 maps in one week? For me it doesn't seem like the players would get bored too much. I as a mapper can say that long testing times are kinda demotivating.

we release 3 per week

15:59

what’s demotivating for mappers is waiting for testers not release

3

Maybe both

16:08

https://www.change.org/removeonemaprule

Petition unterschreiben

remove 1 map per mapper rule

Remove 1 map per mapper? Wym by that

16:09

For the maps on the test rn?

Yeah mappers can only upload 1 map rn

what

16:11

ur literally lead tester

16:11

just remove it urself

I asked jao to remove it, he didn't want to

Welf is simp for both genders wtf

So what about releasing 3 maps per week until we only have like 5 maps left and then release 2 maps per week? What is even the problem about releasing 0 maps in one week? For me it doesn't seem like the players would get bored too much. I as a mapper can say that long testing times are kinda demotivating.

16:11

lol

16:12

map releases are made for players not to satisfy mappers wtf

16:12

we're not gonna release 0 maps per week just to have mappers wait 1 or 2 weeks less for their map to get released oO

wut

and also once a map is ready im pretty sure most mappers are happy because its validated

That's not was i was saying snail

thats kinda what u just wrote

Snail read it again

No

"i dont see any problem with releasing 0 map per week"

You misinterpreted me

16:12

Yeah

16:13

It's not a problem because most of the times the players play older maps anyways

16:13

It's not like we are out of content for that week

16:13

I also prefer to see all maps earlier

16:13

than having to wait 1 month until i can play a map on the server.

with that logic just release everything at once coz releases are useless

LOL

Yes the people affected by less rls are testers but since i believe its more about statisfying the players the rls amount doesnt matter

slippery slope

dont u think its better for players to have consistent 2 maps-per-week releases

you make a lot assumptions without backing them up

than having 2 weeks with 3 maps

16:14

and then 1 with 0

What assumptions am i making?

a lot

Well we don't have statistics at all and everybody is saying their opinion

me not

16:15

we had times where there were no releases

16:15

players werent happy

Just release shocktsunami, then ppl shouldn't be bored waiting new maps justatest

justatest

thats not an assumption

justatest

Wtf kenzo qlo callate

@Cristian

banhammer

justatest

rooEZSip

So did you ask everybody about the no releases @jao ? Where is your statistic

16:16

It's your personal impression from talking to a few players?

man even on this discord

16:16

ppl complain a lot

its my impression from the complaints i got lmao

about low release amount

16:17

obviously no release is gonna be worse

you think people complain because they are happy?

this discussion right here started

16:17

because of low release amount

16:17

doesnt that speak for itself on how no-release-at-all is gonna work

16:17

lol

I don't know, people have weird reasons to complain. If some people complain it doesn't say too much about the overall happiness. It's not a statistic, but an impression on a few indicators.

just merge all maps into one

lmao

I was suggesting a buffering system, that would try to not have too few releases.

you suggested the system in place

16:18

wtf

well ill quote myself

16:18

[6:14 PM] snail: dont u think its better for players to have consistent 2 maps-per-week releases [6:14 PM] snail: than having 2 weeks with 3 maps [6:14 PM] snail: and then 1 with 0

16:18

if u dont regulate releases ull end up with 0 release weeks

16:19

obviously if we consistently have 15 maps ready

16:19

we could add 1 more per week

I never said i was against regulating releases.

16:19

Stop this

but for now thats not the case

it will also generate unneccessary stress for testers

16:19

i know that feeling

wut

I talked about my personal opinion earlier, i didn't say that we should act based on that one. I said that after i already suggested that buffering thing. If we only have 2 maps ready, 1 release per week is fine and we shouldn't release 2 per week. I guess we all agree on that.

So what about releasing 3 maps per week until we only have like 5 maps left and then release 2 maps per week?

16:21

that kinda implies u wanna push more releases right now

16:21

coz we have lots of map

16:21

but then ur not seeing the long term picture

16:21

imo its too early to push more maps

16:22

we ve never had that many rdy maps, unless it stays that way for weeks its clearly not sth we can expect to be consistent

i think we can do 3 maps per week for now

1

16:23

it wont be bad for 2-3 weeks

16:23

after that we will still have enough for 2 per week

16:23

and then new maps will come anyways

agree with jao

what long term picture we survived months with 1 release

16:26

that had*

ye

16:26

but we dont wanna get back to that do we xd

yes

16:27

imo 1 map every 3 days is healthy

16:27

idk

y

when ddmax got released, was that 3 maps a day?

but remove 1 map per mapper rule

i think our current system is good

https://www.change.org/removeonemaprule

Petition unterschreiben

remove 1 map per mapper rule

16:28

signed

1 lame release in the middle of the week where no one has time and 1 good release at the weekend for everyone to enjoy

lol

1

monkaS

1

unterschreiben

1 lame release justatest

justatest

i got 3 maps for the lame releases ready hmu

which ready maps are lame justatest

justatest

piston released wednesday @louis justatest

justatest

>:(

justatest

i mean like solo or oldschool rooEZSip

rooEZSip

2

i finished the new insane map twice now, when release new t0 insane map justatest

justatest

I guess we can release 3 maps per week for more than 2-3 weeks, that's why i suggested a number like releasing 3 maps per week until we have 5 maps left (maybe another number). Let me give you an example about waiting times: Piston was uploaded on the 08/02 Piston was ready on the 08/05 Piston was released on the 09/09 This example is extreme because of the birthday event and the steam release i know. Some maps are easy to test when uploaded and are ready within a few weeks. Then the mappers wait for an additional month for the release. From what i see brutal+ (insane, hard dummy,solo) maps need more time in testing.

it doesnt deserve to be insane @Lexin justatest

justatest

oldschool and race are lame

having smth $ready > release

solo has way less playtime than normal maps (edited)

16:29

so for majority its lame

i finished the new insane map twice now, when release new t0 insane map justatest

justatest

@Lexin #freeshocktsunami

4

banhammer

1

rather focus on testing than releasing stuff cuz anything readied will get released one day

FeelsCopMan

1

16:30

rn we have a bunch of readied maps cuz theres a lot of novices that are super easy to test

Maybe many solo maps are just bad, so nobody plays those maps

@jao bcs the new solo maps are pretty lame and boring to run

16:30

atleast for me

justatest

when ddmax got released, was that 3 maps a day?

@Im 'corneum 5maps + other maps

wow

@Lexin thats what i said rooEZSip

rooEZSip

justatest

can we rls 1 oldschool everyday

16:31

konsti has probably 100 rdy

i feel like solo became super unpopular. maybe we hit the point where most things have been mapped already

100 cheatable oldschool maps justatest

justatest

100 funny team 0 maps

and probably no competition, since n9 tops everyone anyways

@Lexin Getspeed 3 very fun

3

feelsamazingman

2

16:33

feelsamazingman

16:33

Also starkiller rank1 not n9

yeah but even after a solo got released, i dont see a lot of players even giving it a shot

i see them

bcs recent solo maps always have weird mechanics

normal maps are way more fun

tunes suck

16:34

nobody likes them

solo is cool when u have a lot of speed, but for example jetpack is recently often used in tied spaces even tho its a super fast and fun mechanic

well i always had to got for solo and dummy bcs of shitty internet

feelsbadman

3

Many solo maps are just frustrating. Either weird parts or the maps are faily. I guess playing faily maps alone or with 2 players is not as fun as playing them t0.

i had to go for dummy cas i have no friends

troll

2

2

cuz hi_tler_gll ded

feelsbadman

feelsamazingman

its just too bored to play alone

@Lexin just make good maps on your own

Oldschool maps are super fun

old solo maps > new solo maps

i have a long list of oldschool maps to be released

i mapped a rly fun solo part for boonis map a few years ago, but it got lost feelsbadman

feelsbadman

@<BµmM> GetSpeed series best

old maps in general are more fun cus nowadays everyone wants to be as creative as they can

3

true

KISS

16:37

keep it short and simple!!!

16:37

KISS

if you map oldschool solo stuff it will probably be rejected for a lack of creativity. thats why all new ones are weird

I think creativity is a testing criterion

ok maybe not short

16:37

but simple

This testing criterion sucks

ye creativity shouldnt be a criteria

lots of people like playing without brain

ye

if the map is fun im gonna play it, fuck creativity

everyone on kog

troll

2

just look at t0 maps

I kind of love how when on KoG people complained about not realising more maps the simple answer was ~"we're not going to increase the amount of released maps per week, just to stay constant" and it was end of topic because they trust the staff about all decisions, and then, on DDNet the topic is brought back on surface every ~half year and goes for at least a day until people get bored discussing it with useless arguments...

Everything is ok as long u dont map "Creative" with tunes

16:39

lmao

16:40

They dont trust their stuff

16:40

Staff*

@Melio a famous cook actually said sth like that

I kind of love how when on KoG people complained about not realising more maps the simple answer was ~"we're not going to increase the amount of released maps per week, just to stay constant" and it was end of topic because they trust the staff about all decisions, and then, on DDNet the topic is brought back on surface every ~half year and goes for at least a day until people get bored discussing it with useless arguments...

@Soreu lol nope

some tunes are cool

kog player cucks

@Lexin xd really

They just know KoG is a dictatorship

16:40

Discussing is useless there

Kog is shit

6

real news

yeah, that new cooks often try weird crazy stuff, but you just gotta keep it simple

They wont even think about changing their minds

ich hab die scheiße im psychologie unterricht gelernt damals in der schule

16:41

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS-Prinzip

Das KISS-Prinzip (englisch Keep it simple, stupid) fordert, zu einem Problem eine möglichst einfache Lösung anzustreben.In seiner Grundaussage ähnelt das KISS-Prinzip stark der Aussage von Ockhams Rasiermesser: Wenn es mehrere Erklärungen für einen bestimmten Sachverhalt gibt,...

ban

3

1

kogsux

XD

banhammer

ive learned about that back in school

16:42

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle

KISS, an acronym for "keep it simple, stupid" or "keep it stupid simple", is a design principle noted by the U.S. Navy in 1960. The KISS principle states that most systems work best if they are kept simple rather than made complicated; therefore, simplicity should be a key goa...

16:43

und philosophie!

hat mich auch gewundert

#off-topic

österreich is halt anders xD

It's hard to make creative maps good, because learning a new feature and repeating the same shit again and again can be annoying. It has to somewhat feel good. When i tested Day Three we nerfed like all parts to make the map alot less frustrating and alot more fun.

16:46

I think good gameplay is much more important than creativity, but you can use creativity to make your gameplay good. (edited)

I think mostly its just about the flow

"Flow" is a weird criteria for me, because it's hard to understand for others, so when rating maps i would like to go more into detail.

balance

Now that makes more sense to me.

16:49

Flow can also be the conection of the parts or the preparation time a part needs.

i like either no brain maps or super brain maps

yes, eg. when i play a moderate map i just rush through it with my eyes closed

16:55

its the most fun

16:55

flow is important for that

16:56

and when you suddenly have a weird/counterintuitive tune zone that sucks

We are taking a look on balancing in map testing of course.

nah for me flow is not balance

Yeah i prefer tune zones in the whole map or like it was made in Sincera xD

16:56

What is flow for you?

what it says kinda, how well the parts fit together and if you can play "fluidly"

16:57

eg. what i just mentioned with a weird tune zone

16:57

thats a flow killer

16:58

flow is basically what drags u into the map and makes u lose focus of other stuff

I guess a super hard part in a rather easy map destroys the flow xD so balancing is a factor of flow

17:05

But i also think learning a new mechanic can be fun, you just have to make it in a good way. So i prefer tune zones, if they are used in the whole map instead of only in one part.

xd since when was creativity a big criteria

17:09

3/4 of the readied maps are like 0 creativity i bet

17:09

i dont think it matters as long as its not just copied from other maps

creativity is in the mapping rules xD

17:10

and some testers took it too serious imo

mappers are scared of their maps getting declined cus it's not "creative enough"

17:12

thats why some try to go omega 5head when creating maps recently (edited)

doubt mappers are scared

17:13

+ this is coming from a guy who's named 7 dummy maps in a row the same name

what

7

justatest

4

ok

17:13

? dont see the point of this now but sure

justatest

when caventure 5 or samsara 8

wut

lol

17:17

the samsara series is famous

17:17

why should he stop mapping it

when aim 17

justatest

when genericore 9

Idk

springlobe 4??? @Themix

GET SPEED 4 WHEN

feelsamazingman

1

SPRINGLOBE SUXXXXX

Multimap 2 when

no u

ITS JUST KOG BUT WITH DDNET MAPS SPRINKLED ON TOP

17:22

justatest

wtf springlobe series are best gores in life

facts

Multimap 2 when

@Animefan Yeah we're All waiting

justatest

6

springlobe series > all kog maps

since when samsara famous

17:27

?xd

Ok

GetSpeed 4 soon

Image attachment

samsara famous dummy map

since when samsara famous

@louis since 2015-04-16

wtf caventure and samsara made by same person justatest

justatest

its 1 star old dummy map ofc it has a lot of finishes

yeah same with multimap lol

well not rly since for a lot of ppl multimap was their first ever map

because its old

yeah but like its old old

?XD

like one of the first ddrace maps? is it not

17:33

or around that time

Image attachment

17:34

only two dummy maps have more finishes

louis is a zoomer he doesnt know what maps are good

ok r

melio is king of dummys maps

u cant rly talk abt finishes cuz easy maps always have more finishes

yes

heartcore II is famous but has like 3 finishes

its not famous lol

no its the old maps that have more finishes

its well known

nobody is playing heartcore 2

yeah old + easy

17:35

yeah cause its hard

17:35

ppl still know it tho

maybe 2p every year

ofc people play easy maps more than hard

ofc people know heartcore 2

17:35

since its one of the hardest maps

ya

17:36

why are we even talking about this

17:36

i think originally i said i dont think mappers are scared because of creativity rules in testing

because you said samsara wasnt famous

what

maybe scared was the wrong word, doesnt change the fact that ppl dont want their maps getting declined cus of lack of creativity

since when samsara famous

@louis .

yes its not like hall of fame shit imo

we can agree on that it's a personal thing

17:38

but w/e

maybe you dont like it

+ i mean if theres literally no creativity like a stronghold clone i dont think it should be released

but most people like it

ye maybe i enjoyed the first few samsaras

17:38

but for me i dont like playing similar maps all the time

yet i still get asked 20 times a day when the next samsara/caventure is coming

when piston 2

When caventure 55

well maybe others like that style but me no

So when epix 2

17:40

Or Kobra 6

When Push it 3

whats kobra 5

when stereotype 6 justatest

justatest

when simple world 4

never

When Simple Play 802

but you can give us another mine

17:43

nah xd

When Bronze Mine

simple world 1 and 2 are bad

17:43

simple world 3 is okay

Or Ruby Mine

gold mine was fine

17:43

and diamond mine is bad

hundemine

xd

troll

troll

troll

troll

17:51

Image attachment

maybe i should make generic maps so people like them feelsbadman

feelsbadman

justatest

Piston was funnny

louis when finish Getspeed 3

17:55

Piston shit map

rn

17:55

U

17:55

nvm

17:55

not rn then

heartcore II is famous but has like 3 finishes

@louis isn't famous wtf

Piston best map

ok i go getspeed 3

17:55

yes it is kenzoo kinda

what

1

wtf

1

feelsamazingman

piston was animation test rly

@louis only if you add noouin in the background of the map feelsamazingman

feelsamazingman

feelsamazingman

feelsamazingman

heartcore 1 was "famous", heartcore 2? not so much

They wont even think about changing their minds

@binbaldweg (bzw) justatest

justatest

justatest

fuck he saw it

@louis lmao samsara and caventure best dummy maps

19:02

Especially to get from noob to decent

19:02

I was always trying to beat my own time

19:03

So many people finished those maps more than once. If that is the case the map gets famous

but i think only caventure and samsara 1. after that the maps got weird

. ↑ 1 . → 3 . ↓ 2

feelsamazingman

4

yeah the style has changed over the years but i still get asked day in and day out by random peoplewhen the next map is gonna get released so i can assume they are still popular tbh caventure 1 isnt even that good, at this point i just think it's nostalgia or something (back then there was only really skychase and that purple dummy map that was played) if i would submit caventure 1 these days it would get declined 100% but things are different since the steam release now anyways (edited)

i sometimes have the feeling that players ask for maps to start a conversation, "when next map" is just better as "hi mapper" xD

its just a meme

@Im 'corneum when multiFAT 2

i already did xyz in 2x2 size but it sucks worse

20:29

xyzddrace

wtf diamond mine is good

its just a meme

@Im 'corneum it would be if it were the same people but its not

cav 1 is a great map, because you have the normal way and really hard speedrun methods

when samsara viii

its: "samsara viiiii when"

cartoon 2 when

not

also i have longer conversations with them, doesnt seem to troll

20:53

cav 1 is a great map, because you have the normal way and really hard speedrun methods

@Lexin isnt it just the one part where you drag your dummy thru the "solo" part and deepfly?

20:53

and the drag at the beginning

speedfly route turns map into just deepfly 2

u can skip almost every part in that map tho.. xd

Its good that nobody asks when HazelNoob brownbear

brownbear

lol Caventure would Definitely be released

22:00

Its a pretty good map

3

Exported 422 message(s)