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DDraceNetwork
DDraceNetwork / general
This channel is for all Teeworlds/DDNet and related chat. Gameplay questions can be asked here as well rather than in #questions. Ingame screenshots and any other Teeworlds related media goes to #showroom.
Between 2020-09-09 00:00:00Z and 2020-09-10 00:00:00Z
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Some quite skilled player suggested me ingame before going to harder maps to train balancing on tee
00:08
Like for 1-2 minutes
00:08
Is it a good advice?
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I can't do that, and I can play easy brutal maps
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no
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@Deleted User I think just playing helps the most 😉
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But how to balance right? Like I overpress buttons and I can do it longer just by taking bigger speed and distance on the head
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Like even if it's not important it should look cool
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balancing on a tee is no easy feat
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it is easy with a bot
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advertising bots, yay
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u literally never need to balance on tees
00:30
except maybe in that lich king map
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I miss shorefire feelsbadman
00:41
He used to balance on my head PepeHands
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Does Anyone want to play Seagull?
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my ddrace keeps crashing every time i try to get on a heavy map like kobra i need help (im brazillian)
I have the same problem
(edited)
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Bomb | DerpDEX | Ambit Finance 2020-09-09 04:47:18Z
[insert a stupid racist joke]
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imagine being brazillian
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@xKLock @natchies are you out of memory? Can you try 14.6.2 from https://ddnet.tw/downloads/ ? (edited)
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Football anyone? We have 3 players
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2020-09-09 07:20:49Z
Shorefire was botting
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wtf
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it helps training to not overpress keys or press keys precisely, most nobos cant fall on a part like this without failing (edited)
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2020-09-09 08:18:07Z
I can even with kills
08:18
kek
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@Moderator Ger 1 - Novice. [D] Andrew12345 is blocking. We already kicked his main, but can't kick dummy
✅ 1
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2020-09-09 08:59:07Z
if u kick the main the dummy will be kicked too
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Then he may changed his main name to nickname with [D] prefix
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@Moderator TIC blocks on GER2 Kobra2
✅ 1
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Haha yh bcs im the one who was blocking
13:02
trying to do the map with some guys, random ppl start blocking
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I told you to stop yet you still continued to block them. You even left after killing them
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Yh bcs thats what they did to me too
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Legar even helped you twice
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if someone blocks u shouldnt block them back, instead call a mod
13:04
so they actually get banned and can't block people again
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well hasnt joined that discord yet, and playing for such a long time without mods didnt make me think about it
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2020-09-09 13:04:43Z
louis ur eyes are wrong poois
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Having mods for ddrace servers is new to me
13:05
Well its a good thing,
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2020-09-09 13:05:23Z
DDRace always had mods and its good as long they dont rule chat language
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Okay, never notices
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yeah unfornate you weren't aware, next time you can just ping moderators here
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what i did was abd
13:06
bad
13:06
i know but i got fed up with all these blockers
13:06
@murpi tell them im sorry, got a bit angry
heartw 3
👍 3
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Finally someone realising he was wrong and feeling sorry. Thnx! You are a example for others! 👍
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Kinda, i just know how it feels to get blocked on maps. On Kobra its really annoying bcs for some ppl thats a hard map
13:57
dont want any praise or smth similar, im a bad person
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@Vcturus Dont worry you will come back some day to those guys and block them harder than you ever imagined
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By the way isn't it too hard for players to report to discord? I mean I have a server and like 10% of players are agreed to join a discord server. 80% of those who agreed to try cannot make it. It's convinient to have players in discord but we forget that there are kids and people who are not tech-friendly.
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yes we should add the in-game command back like /report
👍 1
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can be abused, but also can be forced for anti a: busing (edited)
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couldn't we also just ip-ignore trolls who spam it
f4 1
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I don't think so
14:04
But there could be a constraint like: vote a to report
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Why dont add discord link into the client
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not everyone has discord tho
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or send report when more than 2-5 players reports
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nah we shouldn't have it on a vote to report
14:04
because even if there's only 1 report it should still be taken care of
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yeah, makes sense
or send report when more than 2-5 players reports
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@Nooback you just cannot imagine how weird is that someone should register in a social network just to write 1 message to mods. (edited)
14:05
You love discord and you like chatting here. Some folks don't have it.
14:05
And don't have a need for it.
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then why would they play tw
ww 2
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Tw is tw and discord is discord. It's not related. (edited)
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I mean
14:06
Who wants to report will use discord
14:07
other guys wont know about mod staff
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Come on, there are lot of players 9-12 years or players who are not tech savvy even a bit.
14:07
And this quest to report will take 10-20 minutes of their life. Most will stop on the first steps.
14:08
It's now like there is a deliberately made obstacle to make this a bueracratic hell.
14:08
We can make more obstacles like: verifying via telephone call or logging to forum first. But wtf? People come to a game to play not to go away from it and register in some service which they don't want to use.
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Come on, there are lot of players 9-12 years or players who are not tech savvy even a bit.
@Deleted User They wont know about some moderator thing
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@Vcturus Dont worry you will come back some day to those guys and block them harder than you ever imagined
@Nooback well, thats the reason i got banned for 30 minutes xD
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If they don't know about moderation then it is the same that it doesn't exist.
14:09
Which is even a bigger problem.
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well, thats the reason i got banned for 30 minutes xD
@Vcturus poor mods they ban for so long
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I tell you only 1 of 50 will register to report. Most will just drop the server/mod/ddnet/tw. (edited)
14:10
Especially if it is their first days in this universe.
14:10
They will just learn that this game is unfriendly and nobody will help them. (edited)
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we had discord mod reporting for a bit, but didn't have a good antispam feature for it
14:11
do you have ideas for that?
14:11
trolls just used it to spam mods
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But if there are 50 ppl in one server and one person is blocking others will notice too and think about reporting them here
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@Deleted User I didnt know about moderators etc. for 1 year playing
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@Nooback exactly. This is the same as the game is unmoderated at all.
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@heinrich5991 couldn't we just block IPs of trolls who spam it
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@louis no
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I mean we could try again
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I would spam it but when I need it I have ban?
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if u spam a report function u dont deserve to have it legit
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yep
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We can and could help to some extent. But it will add a job of monitoring and banning addresses and ranges.
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like the boy who cried wolf
👍 1
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maybe /report spam = ban for hours?
f3 2
14:15
and more "unfair" - report spam = disables report func for that ip, but louis did suggest it, why is it unreal?
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Countermeasures for report spamming could be: 1. Thresholding (2 players to actually report) 2. Aggregating reports (don't spam immediately with reports but aggregate them once a 10-30 minutes) 3. Allow to report only once per ip per day for all servers 4. Allow to report only if X minutes in game 5. Adding a bot which will randomly ask people nearby a reported player if they have troubles with this player (edited)
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5 is a report vote, very similar for simple vote (edited)
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Yes, but people just press F3 without thihnking
14:17
So if you ask a person which doesn't see anything he will just press F3 just in case
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Countermeasures for report spamming could be:
>
1. Thresholding (2 players to actually report) 2. Aggregating reports (don't spam immediately with reports but aggregate them once a 10-30 minutes) 3. Allow to report only once per ip per day for all servers 4. Allow to report only if X minutes in game 5. Adding a bot which will randomly ask people nearby a reported player if they have troubles with this player
@Deleted User wtf
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could just ratelimit reports too
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once per day
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i didn't reach f3's for real trolls very many times
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i mean, there's a small chance someone gets blocked every 5 seconds
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no one cared (edited)
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only X mins in game
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ok, 6. To report a player he should have hooked you last minute
f3 1
14:18
he dont need to hook to block
14:18
doesnt
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at least it will not be a complete random report spam
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@Deleted User the problem wasn't so much that wrong people were reported, but rather that people spammed reports
14:19
you can easily arrange for someone to hook you if you're set out to spam the report function
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7. don't really report first time but tell player he can use /team
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that sounds bad
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afk blocks exist too
feelsamazingman 2
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lying to the player
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@heinrich5991 that's true
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we can just use ratelimited reports and IP-banning report spammers from using it for a day or so
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Ok, we can do 3 category things to lower the load on mods 1. Limit players in their abilities to report (once per day, threshold etc) 2. Providing more info in the report like a screenshot/video and/or 20 last chat lines 3. Make an ~intellectual system which will score probability of a spam report (edited)
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8. disable reporting as mods are useless, even counterproductive often times
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@Schlops take your unproductive stuff elsewhere. you're not even trying to improve the situation
14:23
@Deleted User screenshot/video seems to be out of our capabilities
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my suggestion: ban more often. implement permaban.
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@Schlops permaban has technical difficulties: how do you permaban someone?
14:24
people's IP addresses change, there's no permanent identifier we can tie people to
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And also i think permabanning is kinda childish
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make an account system where players need to register, or use a hardware ID, or IP range ban
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@heinrich5991 why? ddnet code already allows screenshoting. Aws S3 file upload could be integrated relatively easy I think
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@Deleted User oh, you mean client-side. still hard
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stop stop stop
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@Schlops account system: people create a new account. hardware ID: impossible, can always be spoofed. IP range ban: collateral damage
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come on, it's just using aws sdk or http client
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maybe they can report on steam?
14:25
in overlay?
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@Deleted User the hard part is getting the video, not the uploading part
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demo maybe?
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a series of screenshots?
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@Deleted User by all means, try to implement it. I don't see it being easy
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how would that stop spam tho
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@heinrich5991 at least it's a little more effort to create an account. maybe use some open source recaptcha to make it even more time consuming
14:26
just my suggestions
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just because you have a series of screenshots doesn't block spammers
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I am not primarily C++ coder. I am just 3 months coding it 😄 (edited)
14:26
It's just ideas
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@Schlops you think a troll wouldn't spend 5 seconds to solve a captcha to ruin your day?
troll 1
troll 1
troll 1
troll 1
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I am ruby backend developer, I can code backend for you (edited)
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@Deleted User recording a video programmatically isn't something I've done before
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Ok, it's hard
14:27
But what's about a series of screenshots?
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autodemo -> report -> profit
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autodemos dont help with spam tho
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@gerdoe opening demos is rather hard
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and spam was the issue last time
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it's time and effort consuming
14:28
I mean mods still will spend their time just to know if everything is ok
14:29
opening a demo ~= logging to a server directly and see
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and after opening a demo you should login there anyway
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but yes, its still spending mods' time
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how many mods do we have anyway? and who are them?
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checkout members with @ Moderator role (edited)
14:30
6 are online now
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I don't think they would want to spend more than 10 minutes a day solving anything
14:30
am I right?
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and they definitely don't want to be noticed for obvious fake reports, repeatedly
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how to they login to a server anyway?
14:32
there are like ~300 ddnet server, right?
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directly
14:32
300?
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and they belong to different people
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press f2, you can log in there @Deleted User
14:32
they only log into official servers
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I mean how do they have access to it?
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mod rcon access
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if mods get spam reports they could do smth like f2 report_ban <ip>
👍 1
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how many are there official servers? I know rcon
14:33
maybe a bot could be implemented in discord which will automate something
14:34
like reporting to a channel then providing emoticon buttons to react it as fake or not
14:34
@heinrich5991 I don't have a silver bullet here obviously. Just small improvements could be made at their cost
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imagine all the trolls spamming rcon report
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I'd guess they'd even bind it to A & D keys
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well there arent many trolls
troll 2
troll 2
kekw 1
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spamprotect anyway works, isnt it?
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We can allow reporting once per day from one IP
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@gerdoe it works in chat, not console/rcon
14:36
once per day is just as useless as not having it at all
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why?
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+ router restart for fresh IP
14:36
or just update your VPS
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u can get blocked multiple times in an hour too (edited)
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we can add a second rule to allow 3 reports from a /24 network, 10 reports from /16 network (edited)
14:37
and also blacklist networks from reporting
14:37
even automaticaly
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@Deleted User next thing, someone has to implement it again. your solutions for ratelimiting sound useful, but they also need to be implemented
14:38
I'm wokring on other stuff right now, so it's not getting implemented by me
14:38
I can help someone do it
14:38
I agree that it would be a good idea
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@heinrich5991 I can help I think. I can make: 1. An http backend for aggregating reports (in ruby on rails) and a DB schema & host a prototype 2. A simple frontend that will allow configuration and reports log viewing (rails too) 3. A bot which will get reports from backend and post them into discord channel (python) and optionally report status of resolved report as spam/no spam back to backend so it could update rules to filter ip addressed 4. I can add command to ddnet code that will send http request on reporting along with some info. This is the hardest part for me, I don't know how to make it in a safe way in C++. (edited)
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I can make it easy to send off a http request in the server
14:43
(currently http isn't supported in the server)
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So this http code could be reused in the future for other things, right? Like integrating with custom stats system and so on.
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do you think we need a http backend? a discord bot would probably be better, because the mods are already there
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I am not sure we need an API backend and admin UI. It's just easy to do for me.
14:45
I hate debugging python bots.
14:45
is there some ruby discord framework for you?
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I've spent a day adding a simple functionality to it today.
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although ruby is pretty hard to install with package mangers, right? ^^
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Well... I think there is discord.rb
14:46
still I am used to think in APIs 😄
14:46
and to have a server which aggregate things
14:46
but maybe I am overengineering this dunno (edited)
14:47
But how a server will communicate with a bot then?
14:47
Econ is buggy
14:47
and log file is laggy
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disagree about log file, but http is probably a good idea, yes
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Also it would be a lot easier to test an API
14:48
Has anyone proposed a centralised registration system yet?
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small steps
14:48
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I mean for user accounts so user don't have to register on every server with a custom isolated reg system
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I thought we were doing reports ^^
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yeah. I just have a thought about a reg system which would require http too
14:49
to justificate even more an addition of http rest client to the server 😄
14:49
in a possible future ofc, not now
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@Deleted User how is econ buggy btw?
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Using shutdown in econ blocks the port, after server restart you can't connect to econ anymore
14:57
It's the same on DDNet server
14:57
Console doesn't opens sometimes after a server restart or a crash.
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@Moderator Orochimaru is blocking on DDNet GER2 - Multimap
✅ 1
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@Moderator Charesa is blocking on DDNet GER2- Multimap
✅ 1
15:24
But thats multimap everyday life xD
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well its a full srv
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@Deleted User you can base the modreport stuff on this PR: https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/2788
Pure_luck wants to experiment with mod reports on servers again.
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But thats multimap everyday life xD
This concerns me. Could it even be stopped?
15:35
I mean is this a consequence of absence of an easy to use reporting system or lack of human resources?
15:35
We will know it soon (c) I think. (edited)
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We already had mod reports, it was a mess even before the noobstorm
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but mostly due to spam?
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Y spam
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So the new one here will be a rate limiting system which will track spam reports and will temporary punish IP ranges. Right?
15:40
Or even just rate limit IP networks by their size (/24 /18 /16)
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last one was ratelimited too
15:40
didnt help
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they slowly spammed nasty stuff instead 😄 (edited)
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How exactly it was ratelimited?
15:40
And was the worst example of the case it didn't helped?
15:40
How much reports a day?
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do u think we made stats?
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@Deleted User I don't remember
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There wasn't one useful report in that channel by the time we decided to pull the plug
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I just remember that it was bad ^^
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It was long ago, right?
15:47
One useful is like last two by TIC? All others were spam?
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It was drowned by people with vpns spamming
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2020-09-09 15:49:24Z
someone dropping the accounts bomb justatest
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accounts will happen when I have more time to butt heads with the 3 people with really loud voices
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2020-09-09 15:50:45Z
accounts will never happen justatest
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Until then, I guess we are stuck in the dark ages
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2020-09-09 15:50:51Z
At least not forced ones
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@louis I could reserve one slot on all servers for mod
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or just start making 128 players support
15:59
64 players is old 😛
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We have 1000 players max for 300 servers
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ddnet had 1600 xd
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And most of servers are generic
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or just make one big server with multiple map hosting, pay one server with great specs
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And let's 90% of people have a high ping
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for each region?
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And let's 90% of people have a high ping
@Deleted User why high ping?
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Regions
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china and ger one big server
16:03
and leave other regions small servers
16:04
16:04
why just dont combine this two in one
16:05
and buy "better" server with "better" specs xd
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@m!ki we're buying servers to try out how they perform during attacks
16:06
for normal game play one much smaller server would easily be enough
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@deen how much this one costs per month?
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ger2 is probably around 25e
16:09
but germany is home to exceptionally cheap hosters
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@deen one reserved slot would help for full servers
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GER1 is a 65 € / month atm
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Falkenstein, RLP beste
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2020-09-09 16:17:43Z
i think its good to have different servers because some ddosers may not get enough money from their mommies to ddos all at same time
16:17
justatest
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@ᶰ°Konͧsti no? xd u saw yesterday, he kill one server, then goes to other one
16:29
isn't better to buy better protection for one server
16:29
than buying cheaper "protection" for other servers (edited)
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2020-09-09 16:30:35Z
u either buy a real expensive server or its useless
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well, depends this game is really vulnerable
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We looked into the protection options, if one of you has around 3000 euros per month per server lying around, feel free to contact us
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@ᶰ°Konͧsti do ur job
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@m!ki the next upgrade seems to cost >10x our current status
16:34
it doesn't really matter whether we run 1 or 2 servers at our current status
16:34
combining these won't yield benefits
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but then try to buy servers like bombay has they have pretty solid state
16:35
ovh
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they got lucky
16:35
we ordered a similar server and didn't get the same bandwidth
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yeah, that learath told me
16:36
that's weird
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GER1 is similar to the OVH server they have
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bombay is laggy af for me
16:37
ger2 is the best server in tw
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yes until ddoser comes xd
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konsti is the biggest fucking fake and troll
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2020-09-09 16:52:44Z
@cyberfighter imagine finishing with dummy kek
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u made me forget change nicknam
16:52
nickname
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2020-09-09 16:52:58Z
U
16:53
hi deen i would like to change temple of doom dummy rank to my main
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2020-09-09 16:54:04Z
dummy=real player
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dummy is just my slave
16:59
aka not real player
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On GER2 Novice (multimap 63/63 players), two players ("Orochimaru" and "niQ") are blocking a part of the map. (edited)
✅ 1
17:00
@Moderator
17:02
thanks!
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wasn't this like the 2nd time he got reported?
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might be 😄
17:07
thanks very much mods. You are heroes (edited)
17:07
I think they were trolling for a long time
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they arent heroes they are mods
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im a sheep
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u are troll
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murpi literally h4xing
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wasn't this like the 2nd time he got reported?
@murpi Orochimaru has been blocking on Multimap a couple days tho
angryduck 1
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2020-09-09 17:32:16Z
i just started mapping GetSpeed 4 justatest
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di dyou get the spped yet?
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2020-09-09 17:32:55Z
ofc
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how tf do u guys have 100m of temple of doom
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2020-09-09 17:38:03Z
hard map
17:38
Someone can make me a nouis moon please
17:38
As mapress
17:38
justatest
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ez map
17:38
u nub
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2020-09-09 17:38:32Z
i mean the normal moon with wide eyes
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nouin
kek 3
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@Moderator HawkSama and Orochimaru is blocking newbs at ger1 multimap
✅ 1
17:51
are*
17:55
thank louis
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Bomb | DerpDEX | Ambit Finance 2020-09-09 17:56:43Z
Piston is cool
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@Moderator I_AM_GOOD blocks on Ger2 Novice Kobra 2
✅ 1
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@Moderator Siema ger1 multi block
✅ 1
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What happened to old Ger 1 server? new ones suck ass
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New ones are actually Ger6
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yes i figured to ping
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Not sure if 6 already turned to 1
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new 1 is ger4 or ger6
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suck ass
20:08
greenthing
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6 i guess. The server is actually a lot better, but you are just further away from it.
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i have 6 ping(20 before) now, but its inconsistend as fuck
20:09
Mm
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@Moderator Coronavirus blocks on GER 2 Kobra 2
✅ 1
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@ScReeNy that's too bad. Old GER1 was cancelled because it kept getting nullrouted. so it was just down too much (edited)
tear 3
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2020-09-09 20:38:36Z
feelsbadman
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Next time I'll try another server in Frankfurt again
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what happened to snailx3? where is he?
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@snail
20:44
I don't get Discord
20:44
it's a privacy nightmare too
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dm snail
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@Schlops how so?
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They block you and ask for your phone number to "verify" and unlock as many services tend to do nowadays. But luckily you can write support that you don't need this protection and then they whitelist you and discord no longer asks for you phone number (edited)
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I don't remember Discord ever asking for my phone number
21:41
you sure you installed discord? xd
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2020-09-09 21:42:04Z
2factor mayve
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@Soreu maybe you had enough trackers enabled. it happens that discord locks you out of your account until you verify your phone number
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2020-09-09 21:43:39Z
nouis
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some dc servers require phone number verification if u put it in settings
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ᶰ°Konͧsti 2020-09-09 21:43:52Z
Bad servors
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teetactoe map is hugely broken on fun server for some reason
feelsbadman 3
22:20
70.04 KB
22:20
the tunes are broken which is fixed here but theres smth weird going on with all the switches
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Pls fix the tune zones on teectactoe
Exported 404 message(s)