DDraceNetwork - developer

DDraceNetwork

Development / developer

Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.tw/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories — IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet

Between 2020-08-21 00:00:00Z and 2020-08-22 00:00:00Z

Why test servers are 6 people max?

we banned saavik @Pepe join now

kek

Hello I would like to report a bug, on my version of DDrace network the textures won't load and all I see is white squares, can I ask how I can fix this error to be able to play?

02:11

Could be related to my computer but still

I think I saw this error some days ago reported by someone else

02:16

@Learath2 are there any news on that one?

02:16

(didnt follow that bug)

@Lancer James Wolvern we don't know yet if we are able to fix it, because it seems its only a bug for GPUs that only support OpenGL 1.4 and lower you can use an very old DDNet version, DDNet 9.3, which can be found on ddnet.tw

Sorry I don't use open gl, is there a setting to open the game with OLD OPENGL on it? My computer is older than 2010

02:39

And doesn't use open gl

we use SDL2 which defaults to OpenGL 2.1, even tho setting older GL didn't gave any good results, atleast not for the other guy that tested it

02:40

but you can ofc try if you want

02:41

https://ddnet.tw/downloads/DDNet-nightly-win32.zip

02:41

in f1 you can then set gfx_opengl_major 1; gfx_opengl_minor 4; then restart

nice update

we can have so many more special characters now

Sooo it will fix?

have u tried

AHHHHH

06:47

Ohh

06:48

maybe its GL_GENERATE_MIPMAP

06:49

i really wonder what is the first version of ddnet that does not work @Lancer James Wolvern

06:50

bcs there were basically never changes in the old renderer except 2-3 small ones

Okay, I'll see if it worked

06:50

Wait do I download that version? I got it on steam

you dont need steam to run this game

06:50

https://ddnet.tw/downloads/

06:51

here you can try basically any version existed

06:51

e.g. 9.2 https://ddnet.tw/downloads/DDNet-9.2-win32.zip might work

Okay but what do I do? Why major open gl 4?

minor 4, major 1

06:51

bcs opengl 1.4

06:51

but nvm that, i probs wont work anyway

Oh, okay. Lemmie try that

ok ty

06:52

if it doesnt work test 9.2 and if that works we can slowly increase the version and see what does not work

06:52

thats the easiest method

Okay

06:53

Sounds good, thanks

06:53

So what do a type?

gfx_opengl_major 1; gfx_opengl_minor 4;

Oh crap! I can't press F1 on my computer

06:53

Is there another way to open the thing?

why cant u

you can click on config_directory.bat

u can bind another key to toggle_local_console

And it's due to it being a system key instead

06:54

And okay

do u have a fn key?

Function key?

yes

Yeah

do fn+f1

???? Why?

because thats what the fn key is for xd

Oh okay got it

using f1 key

Thanks

happy

No such command

what version did u download

06:57

9.2?

Idk

https://ddnet.tw/downloads/DDNet-nightly-win32.zip

06:57

this one?

I'll just get help tomorrow

well as you like, but easiest would be just test 9.2

06:59

if that works test ddnet 10, and if that works too its probs the texture create

07:04

@Deleted User hey, would it be possible to test ddnet 9.2 and ddnet 10 and see if they both work?

I could give it a shot

07:04

Later through

yeah maybe the other guy will help me that would be ok too, he has the same problem

sad,and ok

07:15

well if thats just mipmap problem ez fix xd

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #2619 Mipmap generation for OpenGL <= 1.5

!mipmap The textures that are white here have a resolution that is not a power of 2 in width. @axblk mentioned in https://github.com/teeworlds/teeworlds/pull/2432#issuecomment-578632541 that non power of two textures cannot generate mipmaps in OpenGL < 2.0 So the easiest would be just to disable mipmapping completly for these old contexts, because that only a few persons anyway(better than ad...

actually i just need a proper way to identify what context is created, i hope glGetString(GL_VERSION) will work for these drivers

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue closed: #2603 DDNet Steam version: Can't navigate through map editor using middle click (Needs confirmation)

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #2620 Old responses are shown in server browser

For example try refreshing Internet tab, then switching to LAN, sometimes some Internet servers show up. Try refreshing in DDNet tab twice quickly and some high ping locations are shown with ping 0 or low ping. Noticed this myself locally, got reminded today by Shyzo on Discord.

@Learath2 I think I found out what was causing the bug that blocked the update on the client (I had it a long time ago and u helped me with it) When I open ddnet from Windows search bar, I can't update When I open it directly from the app, I can It's probably some path thingy so I thought it might be the reason why Steam updates don't work sometimes for ppl

Oh, that could actually be possible

Korean improved, Japanese improved -- this is good so far, but it's hard to call Japanese typing 'functional' and Korean is still pretty difficult because of no 'preview typing' :( (edited)

12:48

When I type press space for suggestions in Japanese, there should be a pop up -- visual UI doesn't show up though it works, but can't see anything When I press return to select the suggestion, it shouldn't trigger the 'chat all' hotkey -- temporary for me is just to rebind the chat all key to something else (edited)

Japanese is completely broken on macOS

12:57

Pinyin for chinese works

12:57

Korean works

Some asked for Pinyin tab completion though

@Learath2 wow pretty crazy that Korean works on Mac

Surprisingly Chinese Handwriting is the best one so far

12:59

Japanese is completely broken though and idk why. The completion boxes are all over the place too, SDL2 just has shit support for macOS IME

And honestly, the new font is far, far better -- whoever updated the font knows what they're doing

@Pathos you can thank @TsFreddie

Ah we should be using SDL_SetTextInputRect to get the IME in the correct place (edited)

[ddnet-web:master] 1 new commit

88116be Update staff a bit - def-

Oh

oh?

@Learath2 that should be easy then

I was trying to fix the whole IME thing a couple weeks ago and it's actually a kinda interesting problem

I dont even know how it looks

There are many odd corner cases you'd never think of

13:19

Things like pressing f1 while chatting rules out any naive approach

13:20

You need to make sure SDL is in text editing mode as long as there is a text editing field active

13:20

But if you forget to get out of it, the input breaks

i've done that before

13:42

but created some problems

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #2621 Pinyin tab completion

Would requite a pinyin to unicode mapping, see https://unicode.org/reports/tr38/#Unihan.zip

@deen what's that for?

13:46

one pinyin may correspond to hundreds of unicode characters, plus unihan database is far from complete.

@TsFreddie so you can write "bei" and tab will match 北京 assuming there is a player with that name. Someone requested it

then do unicode to pinyin, not the other way around.

13:48

I have my own dataset for my own input method

13:49

https://github.com/xkjd27/rime_jd27c/blob/master/Lambda/ZiDB/%E9%80%9A%E5%B8%B8.txt

xkjd27/rime_jd27c

键道27C - 星空键道27键 Colemak 双形输入方案. Contribute to xkjd27/rime_jd27c development by creating an account on GitHub.

13:50

you can grep out the pinyin.

There should be a max ping in server filter by default, something like 150 maybe

actually. I can make a stripped version. so a pinyin only correspond to the common ones.

There should be a max ping in server filter by default, something like 150 maybe

@Ravie maybe dynamic, depending on how many servers you'll find

I would just go with the highest one that can still be considered playable

Well, I played dummy map on CHN server with ping 300 and finished the map w/o problems some time ago, so... "considered playable" is not so easily definable, especially with damn good antiping

https://pastebin.com/VU3gv12B

a 吖啊嗄腌锕阿ai 叆呆哀哎唉嗌嗳埃嫒挨捱暧欸毐爱瑷癌皑矮砹碍艾蔼锿隘霭...

Pastebin.com is the number one paste tool since 2002. Pastebin is a website where you can store text online for a set period of time.

Ah yes, I understand

well it'd be better if you create two buffers for every names, one for displaying, one for searching.

14:13

but that's too much work i suppose.

What is this supposed to be?

also this https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/530/commits

Full Asian IME support. by TsFreddie · Pull Request #530 · ddnet/dd...

From my c-client https://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=10838 Added on-the-spot style IME support described at here in SDL2 documents Note: Currently working perfectly with Windows and so...

14:16

it is reverted because it is incredibly broken. but it shows how we usually deal with editing states with cursors and stuff.

14:18

also SDL_SetTextInputRect doesn't work in fullscreen mode iirc.

Now that's disappointing

You hack sdl2

14:20

also sdl2 doesn't set ImmSetCandidateWindow. which is pretty useless

14:21

expose this, then you can render candidates in-game: https://github.com/spurious/SDL-mirror/blob/6b6170caf69b4189c9a9d14fca96e97f09bbcc41/src/video/windows/SDL_windowsvideo.h#L158

spurious/SDL-mirror

An unofficial, automated SDL2 and SDL1.2 HG mirror. - spurious/SDL-mirror

14:21

still, too much work.

IME support in SDL seems rather weak

14:23

the more I look at it the less appealing it looks

valve went pretty far with their IME supports for all their games

14:23

but still many IME doesn't work under their game

14:26

I really would like to help, but i'm crunching my thesis.

14:26

EeveeShy

so many chinese players but they dont come to this discord

14:26

i guess its blocked

you can login sometimes

14:27

not like they have a dedicated chinese server.

do most of them know english?

i'd say less than 2%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_mainland_China

List of websites blocked in mainland China

Many domain names are blocked in mainland China under the country's Internet censorship policy, which prevents users from accessing certain websites from within the country.This is a list of the most notable such blocked websites in the country. This page does not apply to Hon...

14:27

;)

this ime stuff and chinese characters looks like a pain, lucky to not be a programmer in a asian country

14:28

abc best

+1

watermeron

bluekitty

well, we can ignore other languages for the most part.

Wikipedia blocked haha

chinese developer doesn't usually do i10n anyway

At least on macOS IME SDL_SetTextInputRect seems to work in fullscreen

The Discord app is completely blocked by the "GFW" Great Firewall (of China)

14:30

sad :c

arent u in danger for chatting here

14:30

justatest

@Ryozuki Take one look at rendering arabic text and you'll love all asian IME

watch out ur kidney

Wikipedia blocked haha

@Ryozuki if a service is popular and allows user content (comments/articles) then it is blocked

@Ryozuki Take one look at rendering arabic text and you'll love all asian IME

@Learath2 yea reverse text rendering or weird stuff i dont want to see that in my life

but pretty much every services in existence have a chinese clone. so don't worry about it.

14:31

watermeron

they are doing "just fine"

whats the discord counterpart

14:32

maybe someone can create a community there

14:32

with resources and stuff

WeChat?

YY and QQ i guess. but those are way before discord tho.

what do u use instead of youtube?=

QQ was more of an ICQ clone I think

@Ryozuki if a service is popular and allows user content (comments/articles) then it is blocked

@TsFreddie ` Can't you chat also in teeworlds ._. ? justatest

justatest

bilibili?

5 years ago, youku, today, bilibili

@TsFreddie true, teeworlds has a chat justatest

justatest

14:33

ddracenetwork

so?

14:33

it's not popular nor well known

14:33

lol

ah

._.

14:33

FeelsBadMan

interesting stuff

How big do we need to get before they send us a mail to inform us that we need to hook a proprietary blob to our chat feature to ensure "peace"?

troll

they don't send you anything

14:34

you're just gone

14:34

see ya

@TsFreddie is it true you cannot display human related bones in video games

I guess with DPI they don't even need a blob

we should not display a human skull tee

14:34

justatest

but i'd say you should have at least a million users for the ppl "higher up" to notice

14:35

unless a screenshot of some "sensitive topic" is getting shared by thousands

someone make a racist map

more like you saying "free hongkong" in teeworlds, screenshot it, post it, get about a thousand "retweets" on some chinese socials.

Don't get us banned in china please

you'd be gone by the next day

It's nice to see new players

14:37

Even tho I can't communicate with them at all

but usually one persons "tweet" won't get noticed, so usually only the popular services gets banned

is this a controversial screenshot?

Image attachment

lol

I have talked to a few Chinese players, most of them use WeChat.

yes

14:38

but wechat is more like messenger than discord..

its good there is lots but sad u cant chat

Other services are blocked directly but since Wechat is apparently "safe" the government can't do anything about it

time to make a deep learning translator

well some of them are really stupid

builtin in ddnet

i'd rather not seeing them chat

I was considering learning some chinese, it really is the hardest language I've ever encountered

we can't easily pick up any latin languages too

14:40

don't feel too bad.

Korean and Japanese weren't this tough

+1

ghosty

we can read japanese if there's like a lot of kanji.

14:41

well a little bit

14:41

don't even need to learn anything

Tones are extraordinarily difficult for a westerner

I can read it a bit, but that's all I can do. After 5 minutes I always get a headache. xD

ha

In korean and japanese worst case you sound like a foreigner. Tone actually changes meaning in chinese

Chinese always sounds so evil compared to Japanese ._.

korean cool language poggies

poggies

pepeD

2

1

Tones are extraordinarily difficult for a westerner

@Learath2 I think the "tone" language feature in chinese is significantly holding back music / poetry .

14:44

but any lyrics or poetry done extremely right sounds like magic in chinese.

japanese AYAYA

so harry potter is an artist in china

greenthing

I imagine it'd be extremely hard to sing when you have to both use the correct tone and match the song tone

it's really hard to get a rhyme that doesn't sound like trash while still being coherent

PepeHmm

I imagine it'd be extremely hard to sing when you have to both use the correct tone and match the song tone

@Learath2 well that's the thing. we can only default to the first tone when singing

Is chinese rap a thing I wonder

@Learath2 yes its about how great china is XD

unless you incorporate the tone with your melody

14:46

that's like, hard af

14:47

Is chinese rap a thing I wonder

@Learath2 it is, some liked it, i hated it cuz it sounds so rough.

14:47

hiphop was a big thing for the past two years i think. i'm not a fan tho.

14:47

I don't like chinese songs anyway

14:48

but i just played to much games to enjoy "real music", i only listen to soundtracks and stuff, but that's just me

14:48

EeveeShy

I like listening to music in languages I don't understand at all

14:49

If you don't understand anything, it can't distract you from work

well me too

14:50

then i learned English and lots of songs are ruined.

yes

1

@deen db commands are delayed

15:32

by like 10 seconds

sounds like db down

Image attachment

15:33

map list bugged

15:34

scrolling does nothing

15:34

and no stars or info

15:34

(brutal srv)

15:34

8317 ger2

15:34

i guess its the db too

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #2622 No way to remove sqlservers

At least something like clear_sqlservers would be niceto have. Any thoughts from your side @Zwelf ?

@TsFreddie is it true you cannot display human related bones in video games

@Ryozuki (didn't see that) yes and no. it is not like it is strictly banned, just the companies hosting the game don't want troubles, then they just make everything extremely safe, so the services doesn't get taken down. (edited)

15:49

usually any "sensitive" offence will require the services to be shutdown for a fixed period of time, which is a huge financial loss for them. (edited)

15:52

then, government doesn't care about any graphical elements themselves, but ppl can file complains about any "violence"/"sexual" or "scam" content. As a conservative culture, usually the complainant wins, because the governments are supposed to satisfy the "general public including minors and disabled".

15:52

So companies don't want to risks any cool down period just because some jackass reported them.

15:55

But that's just how the gaming/video content works in china. political stuff doesn't work like that.

[ddnet-web:master] 1 new commit

c780070 add SukLuck - 12pm

@TsFreddie isn't the pinyin thing supposed to be something handled by the IME?

you mean the data i gave?

17:13

deen wants a chinese search using latin letters

@TsFreddie so you can write "bei" and tab will match 北京 assuming there is a player with that name. Someone requested it

@deen

17:13

oops, didn't mean to @ deen

17:13

sorry

17:14

and yes, it is usually handled by ime

But won't writing "bei" and hitting the complete button of your ime give you correct behaviour?

they can't see which bei they are typing

17:15

they might just turn off ime and use literally "bei" to search servers/players

Ah, we want this to work even if IME isn't there?

yes

hm, that might be rather costly

17:16

Anytime tab is hit for completion, we'd need to go through this massive table to check whether there is a tee with that name

@TsFreddie is working IME as good or is it needed above that?

or a name that starts with that character(pair)

@heinrich5991 cool pic :o

Image attachment

17:17

https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/idwlqu/rust_memory_container_cheatsheet_publish_on_github/

don't use tab completion tho

17:17

i usually create two buffers when a string appears, one for search one for display

17:18

like if you have a server named "北京 Server", you create another buffer that contains "bei jing Server" by looking up a unicode to pinyin map.

17:18

and search that one instead

17:19

that won't cover every case (mapping isn't 1:1 for both way), but for server name, that's plenty enough.

17:19

or just don't do it at all

17:20

lol

That's actually a decent idea

17:20

Instead of mapping the search string, we map the searched strings

if I want to do loose chinese search I use some library to get the actual pinyin of the words, but for a simple fix, a map will do

Is there a common library for that?

there are some for python

17:21

but you'll need to include a much larger dataset

17:21

not worth it

17:21

a unicode2pinyin map is already like 1m (edited)

17:22

thonk

if you want a true i10n experience. ICU is the go to, but that's about 25m of data.

17:23

but it even has the bidi class, which can be used to render Arabic and it's ligature stuff.

Wow, that's a massive dataset

some modern fonts might have ligature info baked in, i don't know whether freetype supports it or not.

Even 1M we should use something like an unordered_map to navigate this or maybe bsearch would cut it too

17:26

@TsFreddie I'm not very familiar with chinese characters, do they map to a single pinyin?

i suppose ICU handles data loading automatically.

17:26

no

17:26

乐 can be "le" or "yue"

So there is no way to be truly correct without doing a lot of inefficient searching

no

17:27

but our server names is fixed, we can just picked the common ones.

17:27

unless you want additional dataset

17:27

pinyin is usually based on context. 快乐 is "kuai le"，音乐 is "yin yue"

17:27

japanese is a whole other level

Even with the entire dataset it'd be quite inefficient to search through it, can't build the strings ahead of time

a entire word can have different pronunciation given it's sentence context.

17:28

chinese only need word context.

Yeah, japanese is extra fun

trie tree can deal with string sequence.

17:29

you can build the tree a head of the time and load the binary straight into memory

17:29

that's what most IME does

17:29

(chinese IME)

Ah, we could build a search tree per entry, that'd indeed be more efficient

japanese have MeCab library for tokenizer to determine sentence segmentation and context.

17:32

all of them are huge af.

Still a lot of work, though given a majority of our playerbase is chinese now, it might be a worthwhile QoL change

EeveeShy

Common kanji can have like a dozen readings, I can see how japanese would be even more painful

Image attachment

17:35

i think most common chinese and japanese IME are cloud based now.

17:35

since language are constantly evolving.

so many symbols but english does well with just 26 letters

17:36

nouis

one thing about chinese is if you never seen a word

17:36

you probably know what it means by just looking at it.

but a computer not

17:37

haha

unicode did tons of weird stuff for kanji

I must say, except for korean, asian languages really are not conducive to writing

i imagine writing to be so slow

17:37

sure it will look more compact

our sentence is shorter tho..

thats what i meant by my second sentence

chinese writing can be a art too.

it also looks more aesthethic

17:38

but its overcomplicated xd

i suck at them tho

eh

17:39

most writings can be art

it's not that complicate if you use them daily tbh

17:39

oh right

17:39

most writings can be art

@Ryozuki nvm i'm stupid

well

17:39

arabic to me looks rly ugly

17:39

tbh

17:39

xd

17:39

i dont know

17:40

how they can read that

I've been practicing writing japanese every other day, for like the last 6 months and I still can't write anything close to quickly

it all looks squashed down

@Ryozuki Arabic was the reason the ottoman empire had literacy rates of around 5%

justatest

not like chinese is just a bunch of drawing with no patterns.

Introduction of the latin alphabet skyrocketed it to around 60% almost instantly

ye

17:41

latin alphabet is genius tbh

17:41

arabic good thing are numbers

17:41

thats it

17:41

01234

17:41

@TsFreddie do u use numbers

17:41

troll

we actually

17:41

have our numbers

i also see, asians use like rly big dots

17:41

on sentences

17:41

it looks rly weird

17:41

and its not a filled dot

17:41

.

what?

maybe its something i seen

一二三四五 12345

u dont put a dot at the end of a sentence?

you mean period

17:43

it's just a different period..

ye

17:43

i find it curious

17:43

。

17:43

its this

yes

17:43

but what's curious about it

why not .

cuz we don't know about any foreign languages when it was invented? (edited)

I wouldn't mind having "。" as the end of a sentence。

it has its own padding on the right even

17:45

forced

what do you expect. we just give up our culture and just adopt Latin punctuations?

hey no need to be defensive

17:45

im just curious

dude

17:46

didn't mean to sound defensive

17:46

also the padding is because the old printing method

17:46

Image attachment

17:46

everything is a block

17:47

so does the punctuations.

But everything is aligned correctly with that, i like it

cool

17:47

oh

17:48

wait, so u dont have to type a space after u use that puntuation?

17:48

does chinese use spaces

we don't

@Ryozuki did you know that there are different arabic numerals in use today: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Arabic_numerals

Eastern Arabic numerals

The Eastern Arabic numerals (also called Arabic–Hindu numerals, Arabic Eastern numerals) are the symbols used to represent the Hindu–Arabic numeral system, in conjunction with the Arabic alphabet in the countries of the Mashriq (the east of the Arab world), the Arabian Peninsu...

but spacebar is post computer tho..

very funny

you don't think about spacebar when you write.

@TsFreddie not even for triggering the ime?

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #2623 MySQL enhance unreachable server situation

Might fix #2563

we do use spacebar

17:48

a lot

justatest

i'm just saying the punctuation padding have nothing to do with spacebar.

ah yea

17:49

日本語の同じ

spacebar is for confirming selection

日本語の同じ。

or some other stuff

damn, wanted to show punctuation, then fail twice

@heinrich5991 "Someone should implmeent this cleanly on the server side with a net message so that the client tells the server its preferred language" this should be easy to implement with a new netmsg right?

japanese have different comma than chinese

oh

17:50

、

Chinese use，

interesting

、

17:51

ah

@Ryozuki "cleanly" would probably let the client side handle it

we also have a punctuation to reference a title

17:51

《BOOK TITLE HERE》

@heinrich5991 wdym handle what

17:51

the server msg translation?

@TsFreddie you mean quotes?

17:52

@Ryozuki yes

17:52

but I don't know a good way to make that happen, right off the bat

we have quotes for, you know, “quotes”.

I mean german also has several types of quotes

some older quotation mark look like this「」

»hi there« „hi there” ‚hi there’

17:53

german quotes

but i think it was more common when we were writing vertically

@heinrich5991 maybe we could simply not send strings at all, just a new packet with a id, and arguments that the client uses to select the string it has saved and replace the arguments

17:53

but for announcements idk how

luckily we switched to horizontal way before computer is a thing.

luckily we switched to horizontal way before computer is a thing.

@TsFreddie I was just wondering, how it must've been like to switch

@TsFreddie are books left-to-right?

otherwise you'll need not only right to left mark, but also a 90 degree rotation mark

japanese books are top-to-bottom

i read manga

17:54

right to left

17:54

top bottom

most book are left to right now

interesting, so different from japanese?

modern japanese books are horizontal as well i believe

I don't think so

nvm they aren't

17:56

thought they'd switch since they must've been custom to horizontal writing by this point

ignored rip

http://turukamejujuan.com/images/uploads/2014/12/yomiuri_20141220_pdf1.pdf newspaper from 2014

17:57

(top to bottom)

but i thought i've seen some japanese exam written horizontally

they use both

17:58

websites are left-to-right

heinrich closet weeb

just differs by medium

tee_thinking

then they must really don't care about the direction

@heinrich5991 I've read a couple LTR japanese books, don't think all are TTB

not only left to right hori also right to left verti

17:59

i'd have so much trouble reading right to left chinese

Well read is an exaggeration, I sorta stared at the kanji and tried to decode it

well maybe not vertically now that i think about it

Since I know like only 400 kanji still

I believe the majority of the books I saw were top to bottom

17:59

just what I remember rn, harry potter is top-to-bottom

They were childrens books tho, maybe that changes sth

they might be in the progress of transitioning. lol

[ddnet-web:master] 1 new commit

68e836a stats/server update - def-

old people read TTB, new education switch to LTR

18:00

idk

18:00

just guessing

another :o

don't think so @TsFreddie

CHN6

@Ryozuki heinrich might be the only person I know learning japanese that doesn't have weebly motivations

thanks

sure sure

[ddnet-web:master] 1 new commit

1a3dc81 fix - def-

justatest

I wanted to learn japanese awhile back

rip ddnet ger

18:01

2020-2020

you have a head start @TsFreddie

ger4

18:01

*

knowing all the kanji

nah

a small one

18:01

but still

they sound different

18:01

entirely

I realize, but you can infer the meanings

i can recognize them sure

I don't know if you realize how hard it is to connect these stupid drawings to meanings

i mean i learned english..

i wanted to learn japanese cuz weeb, but im 2 lazy

18:02

never rly like learning real languages

18:02

liked

18:02

i learned german for 4 years

18:02

and i gave up

english classes are phasing out of chinese education, which is a shame (edited)

lucky i already know 2 quite complicated languages, spanish and catalan

@TsFreddie why are they being phased out?

idk

wtf

useless for local i guess

that would be insane here

seems like a competitive advantage for china to have people speak the two most popular languages

they still have it at elementary level i think

i doubt chinese will overtake western cultures, english is so much simpler to learn

but you can't learn english in a chinese environment like at all in class. it's pretty useless already anyway.

Asian languages with their chinese characters are srs near impossible to learn for westerners

the amount of time they spent designing scenarios just to cover the culture difference is insane.

Even at only 500 kanji I'm constantly either forgetting the meaning or the reading

i guess english is just everywhere, so people can pick up at least some of it easily.

Well also the fact that there is no "the" reading :D

so the education just dropped them

english is also way more simple than most latin based languages

english has stupid pronunciation though

written english sure

ye written english

18:07

i struggle with spoken english

18:07

cuz i never speak it tbh

18:07

i only write

English pronounciation rules are a head scratcher

I started to get some sense of it (i think

"Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo"

18:07

valid sentence

18:07

stupid english :D

but i've been aboard for 6 years already.

Problem is that there is no sense to it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo

Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo

"Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo" is a grammatically correct sentence in American English, often presented as an example of how homonyms and homophones can be used to create complicated linguistic constructs through lexical ambiguity. It has bee...

"Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo"

@Ryozuki that's not exclusive for english

18:08

we have this.

English words from different times in history have differing pronunciation

Image attachment

China has the lion poem

i see some ppl use hafta

18:08

instead of

18:08

have to

18:08

it sounds funny

valid article

18:08

every char sounds "shi"

does it have any meaning?

yes

They are shi in different tones though, right?

@TsFreddie https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ruize-rijmen/De_Chaos just in case you think english pronunciation makes sense, break the glass and read this poem

China has the lion poem

@Learath2 this

18:09

the lion poem

18:09

@TsFreddie https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ruize-rijmen/De_Chaos just in case you think english pronunciation makes sense, break the glass and read this poem

@heinrich5991 how about no

18:10

it's very funny, especially if you have someone that claims that english pronunciation makes sense

Neither, leisure, skein, receiver. ⁠Never guess—it is not safe; ⁠We say calves, valves, half, but Ralf!

18:10

lmao

I heard with simplified chinese dropping many characters the poem is uncomprehensible now

no it doesn't at all

russian only has this: "Косил косой косой косой"

what does it mean @gerdoe ?

I heard with simplified chinese dropping many characters the poem is uncomprehensible now

@Learath2 not the fault of simplified chinese (edited)

Though, through, plough, cough, hough, or tough?

18:11

justatest

just people doesn't talk like that anymore

oblique man mowed with oqblique braid

@TsFreddie can you still understand the meaning of the poem?

yes

dk how translate first word xd

i can read it

18:12

you'll need some ancient chinese knowledge

i can pronounce it quite good mentally

but that's been taught since first grade

but im sure when i speak it sucks

18:12

funny

But written in simplified chinese, does the meaning still get across?

ancient chinese are already being taught in simplified chinese

18:13

you'll just need to know which character is inferred to a newer glyph

Ah, interesting. I'd have thought there just wouldnt be enough characters and tones to map to

but most people don't even need to think of that

@heinrich5991 man with strabismus (lazy eyes) mowed down with oblique braid

if you are taught in trad chinese then yes, probably difficult to read

18:14

but we can't read ancient article in trad chinese too

18:14

at least no entirely

@Learath2 I heard that most of the trad→simplified mapping is according to rules concerning the radicals

but we can guess.

18:15

it's not hard to guess a character by it's shape

@gerdoe how does that even fit into the 4 words? ^^

18:15

oh

18:15

instrumental case

18:15

probably?

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue closed: #2563 sqlserver fallback doesn't work anymore

18:15

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #2623 MySQL enhance unreachable server situation

18:15

[ddnet:master] 3 new commits

a808ad5 Enhance SQL error reporting - Zwelf 3a30dfb Keep connecting to last reachable MySQL server - Zwelf b2ebcb4 Merge pull request #2623 from Zwelf/pr-mysql-enhance-unreachable-server-situation - def-

so

ngl traditional chinese is more authentic and beautiful to look at.

18:16

but i'm glad simplified chinese exists

Lermontov could make poema with deep thought in 100 words i guess xd

man – with strabismus (lazy eyes) – mowed down – with oblique braid

18:16

are these the words? @gerdoe

u can make poema with deep thoughts in few words in most langs prolly

with strabismus - man - mowed down - oblique - with braid (edited)

18:18

@Ryozuki just it would be hard to translate in 100 words

18:18

in english

thonk

also i have no idea why i have so much handling english grammar.

what

People who can speak both chinese and japanese are also very impressive to me

especially when i'm just typing

18:18

my brain can't keep up with my typing speed

same xd

Two languages with different semantics deceptively sharing an alphabet

do you need to translate mentally when writting english rn?

not rn

18:19

i don't think about chinese when typing anymore

yeah

18:19

same

18:19

feels always good

18:19

i even forget words in my language

@gerdoe that's five words, you're cheating somehow. your original russian sentence had 4

and only know them in english

but i've been abroad for 6 years

18:20

i actually quite like translation works. (edited)

18:20

it make me connect two languages more

u mean u like translating?

ye

@TsFreddie if you don't mind me asking, where do you live?

you mean right now?

Yeah

uk

lmao

oy twat!

18:21

xd

18:21

refined english

Ah, I see

i was in the US for the pass 5 years.

lazy eyed man is косой

what made you ask

I met a looot of foreigners from all over the world in London. I'd wager it's the most international city on earth

man with strabismus - mowed down - oblique - with braid

never been in london

@Learath2 uh, in barcelona u can see everything xD

@TsFreddie just wondering

its funny to see japanese ppl takiung pictures of stupid buildings

18:22

they are atracted

18:22

by some power

18:22

to them

uni is in edinburgh. and now its hard to go anywhere. and my flight back home is cancelled due to covid.

18:23

feelsbadman

18:23

plz send help

justatest

I baaaarely made it back to turkey before they closed the borders

lucky you

18:23

i mean i can technically go home

Came here for like a 10 day, see the parents thing. Been here for 6 months...

@Learath2 do u live with ur family there

but i can't afford the ticket..

18:24

i mean i can.

ah

but i don't want to

18:24

lol

Well if you don't want to go back, I guess it's fine?

I do

18:25

but a flight home would cost me about 3k~4k rn

Pounds? Geez

i can extend my accommodation lease by two months for 1k

18:25

so i took the extension

18:26

but if by december airport are still restricted then i'm fucked

That's a ridiculous price for a flight. Hope the prices settle down by december

i hope so too

@TsFreddie highfive, I also studied in edinburgh for some short time

how was it

quite nice

18:27

now with covid, all the societies are probably closed down?

the 1 year i've been here, they had a three month strike.

18:28

then the covid

18:28

and the school does things extremely slow

18:28

but i guess they are overloaded because it is quite difficult for them too.

18:28

but i don't like it that much.

18:29

i like my undergrad uni more

I liked it

18:29

they bought a lot of microsoft though, I liked my local uni's IT better

well at least informatic has its own IT structure

18:30

i'm guessing most of the players here are europeans?

yes,

,

18:31

bluekitty

watermeron

do most europeans know english? like just naturally.

18:33

or do you still need a education boost or actively learn it by yourself.

The further up north you go the better the english

Most countrys here have english been taught in school (edited)

@TsFreddie it's basically mandatory in germany from 3rd to 10th/12th grade

english is compulsory

In Italy there are very few people who speak english

in spain too

I haven't had much luck in spain or portugal either

it is mandatory in china for that level too

when ur 16, u can choose, german, french, latin most of times

you don't see many chinese have fluent english lol

Didn't meet a single person that can't speak english in germany, netherlands or denmark

you don't see many chinese have fluent english lol

@TsFreddie maybe because it's so different to your normal language

18:35

Didn't meet a single person that can't speak english in germany, netherlands or denmark

@Learath2 you didn't speak with enough old people then

Netherlands especially, they all speak incredible english, it's like their second native tongue

here old ppl dont know english too

@maggi323 Old people don't speak english anywhere anyway

but most zoomers do

I'd guess old dutch people can speak english. just a guess though

18:36

@TsFreddie to answer your question: english is a lot easier for germans than for chinese people

18:36

the languages are relatively close

@maggi323 Old people don't speak english anywhere anyway

@Learath2 I guess in english speaking countrys nouis

nouis

yeah, sometime i don't realize i was watching a dutch youtube channel untill way later

nouis

nouis

lol why is nouis

nouis

emote here

why not

nouis

[9:36 PM] heinrich5991: I'd guess old dutch people can speak english. just a guess thoughI wouldn't be surprised. A very old guy helped me very much at a train station in amsterdam once. He spoke better english than me

18:37

lol thanks discord

watermeron

asian ppl rly like cute emotes

tbh i can't really speak english well

greenthing

18:38

here its all pepe

18:38

poggers

justatest

Didn't meet a single person with decent english in japan or korea either

tbh i can't really speak english well

@TsFreddie but writing, and that's maybe even better

@Learath2 japan-english is the most funny thing ever

i can do conversations but chit chat is like a hard no

With the exception of a random turkish lass we met that spoke perfect english and japanese. Kinda odd

@Ryozuki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cute_culture

heinrich weeb!!

18:39

@Learath2 proof

18:39

justatest

かわいい〜

but i'm definitely capable of speaking english if i take my time.

Oh, the rabbits didn't get enough food, so they've got a hole in their stomach!

兎の腹が減った

{づﾟヮﾟ}づ

i don't like the feeling of wasting other people's time. so i can't help but rush through my sentence before my brain can form a proper sentence.

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

18:40

┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ)

Asian languages are also missing a couple essential sounds to speaking english, which makes it rather tough for them

rr

18:40

they say a L

that's accent for ya

reddit -> leddit

18:40

xddd

not much we can do about it

oh yea, english needs just one sound not present in german

Turkish is quite interesting in that aspect, we have quite a lot of the sounds required to learn most languages in our own native language

th

unless you hang out with natives 24/7 for years

18:41

which is unlikely

do you have th in turkish?

18:41

the english th

speaking of pronounciation

@heinrich5991 there is an analogue we use in words of arabic origin

interesting

i hate ppl insisting on trying to pronounce my name

tee-ess-freddie-rainbow

u dont have the sound tsss

18:42

?

like why do you even bother, just get on with our topic, and i told you just call me freddie

18:42

somebody still want to say my "real name"

18:42

like why?

in spanish tsss is like calling a cat

18:42

tss tss

18:42

idk

Ts is an abbreviation of my hometown

18:43

nothing special really

I usually just ask people what they like to be called and stick to that

and yes, i'm not trans

18:43

thanks for your concern

We never said you were

somebody still want to say my "real name"

@TsFreddie but that just makes me curious what it is, i'm sorry

yifei

18:44

but doesn't really matter here

18:45

in uni you have your name written on everything

Ask the uni to write it in chinese characters, no one will even know how to try pronounce it

doesn't sound too complicated, we had a chinese girl in our class (xiang xinji) and every teacher was like: what the hell

yifei is not

18:47

but you can't get the tones

tear

don't make us so curious. what hanzi?

romanized chinese name doesn't even have tone marks, you can't possibly guess how it is pronounced

hanzi? correct?

@heinrich5991 ذهب an interesting example would be

18:48

lol, random inline arabic really breaks discord

if you tell me the vowels, I can even pronounce it @Learath2

Old people still use the arabic word for gold

ذهب

i mean even if i type it it'll just looks like two pictures, what's the point

ذهب

18:48

how

dhahab

do u even recognize this

18:49

its so small

@Ryozuki I honestly have no idea, it's really impossible

watermeron

@TsFreddie they might resemble japanese kanji

亦非

18:49

doubt it

18:50

maybe 非, i don't know about 亦

亦 is I think みた

again, injustice?

また＊

I think in japanese

Yeah again

well not that far off

18:51

"might as well be extraordinary" is the full meaning of my name

far off, okay

and are you ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

but translating your guess to chinese is pretty close

18:52

well not translating

18:52

i mean i know what you mean

18:52

for each char

18:52

the word has a bit more context

18:53

like 非 can be anything negative or refutative

18:54

so injustice (not just) is pretty close to extraordinary (not ordinary)

18:54

EeveeShy

18:54

idk if i'm getting my point across.

yes, I understand

chinese hides lots of information between chars.

不过我还是不会说中文。

18:56

how does that translator work for chinese?

that's why chinese people tend speak english with euphemism. because they simply forgot to add back the detail

18:56

spot on

nice

but it's a pretty easy sentence tho. i wouldn't set it as a benchmark

18:57

you don't even need to change the sentence structure to translate that one

Teeworlds》是一款快节奏的侧滚式射击游戏。

不过 but 我 I 还是 still 不会 can't 说 speak 中文 chinese

18:58

是一款快节奏的横版射击游戏。

18:58

side-scrolling = horizontal

Image attachment

19:09

the lion poem is basically this but written by a modern writer.

thanks for the chat btw @TsFreddie. was interesting

was fun for me too

I always enjoy talking about languages

Everyone suddenly was a linguist

watched way too much tom scott videos

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #2624 Fix copy paste error

Sorry for slipping that in, just noticed it rereading the merge request #2623.

@deen @heinrich5991: it might be good to merge #2624 soon, if #2623 is already deployed

20:54

By the way, is there a reason that we separately add MySQL read and write servers?

20:55

Why don't we just add MySQL servers and use them for both reading and writing?

idk why we have that

20:58

if no one else knows, we can probably™ remove it

20:58

Zwelf: if we always add the exact same read/write servers, is this copy&paste error still a problem

20:58

?

No, should just work in this case.

ok, then I rate it as non-critical to roll out

[ddnet:master] 2 new commits

2cbbd90 Fix copy paste error - Zwelf 779a144 Merge #2624 - bors[bot]

21:03

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #2624 Fix copy paste error

@heinrich5991 Why do we have the velramp?

velramp is from vanilla

why did vanilla have it?

it multiplies a function to the horizontal speed to get the actual horizontal speed as seen on the map

21:05

it does that so that it's "harder to speed up, the more you speed up"

21:06

unfortunately, f(x)*x tends to 0 for x→infty

21:06

instead of being monotonically increasing

yeah, that's what was concerning me

hence we get the weird behavior we have

21:06

don't worry, maps use it extensively

if you go insanely fast, you don't move, right?

yes

21:07

maps usually use this behavior by placing lots of speeders

21:07

that will make you stop at a very specific point

Finally I understand, why you are getting slower after a certain point

then you can jump out of the speeders and let go of the direction key and you'll speed up again

Why do you speed up if you let go of the direction key?

21:08

Ah as your velocity falls you start to come back from infty

yes

21:09

actually 6000, as that's the max speed

I guess instead of this weird thing, friction should have been a function of velocity

Zwelf: The idea was to have a read-only cloned sql server for each location and only 1-2 main write servers. But we never used that I think, so feel free to remove it

21:11

Zwelf: I deployed 2624 now, thanks for the quick fix

@Learath2 there's no friction as long as you don't let go of movement keys

Oh, that sounds even weirder

(also leading to the funny effect that pressing no direction keys is usually the better option for decelerating, rather than pressing the opposite direction key)

These oddball physics decisions created great gameplay somehow, I wonder what matricks was thinking

I mean I agree with the no friction while moving part

21:14

this lets you keep speed you have

21:14

that feels great

21:15

the velramp thing could have been done in a way that the function would be monotonically increasing

21:15

but I guess the speeds were thought to be "unreachable"

I wouldn't have thought of "no friction while moving"

21:15

I probably would have implemented all of it kinda realistically, then played around with the coefficients

I wouldn't have thought of "no friction while moving"

neither would I have, before teeworlds, probably

Image attachment

21:45

any idea why on dummy connecting main tee sent message out of nowhere?

bug

whats that message supposed to do in the first place

detect a certain kind of bot, but it's a bug that it shows up in the client

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #2625 Save can get sent to wrong person if database is unreachable for long

Original saving player left the game already, new player joins and gets the save message. !unknown3 @Zwelf I heard you know about this already, right?

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue closed: #2618 Team rank doesn't get updated when mysql server is unreachable

22:25

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #2626 Update turkish language

100% translated. You may want add turkish support to steam page.

Exported 910 message(s)