DDraceNetwork - developer

where is the file src/game/generated/server_data.cpp created?

09:18

https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/blob/master/CMakeLists.txt#L1370 is it here? or should it be created here already?

ddnet/ddnet

DDraceNetwork, a cooperative racing mod of Teeworlds - ddnet/ddnet

09:19

ah i guess its generated here https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/blob/master/CMakeLists.txt#L1300

ddnet/ddnet

DDraceNetwork, a cooperative racing mod of Teeworlds - ddnet/ddnet

https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/blob/c37dc660477566da5d54deacd3f8358acb850ecc/CMakeLists.txt#L1370

ddnet/ddnet

DDraceNetwork, a cooperative racing mod of Teeworlds - ddnet/ddnet

09:53

yes here

https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerAnimemes/comments/hv2e6z/a_very_old_meme_from_ace_attorney/

r/ProgrammerAnimemes - A very old meme from Ace Attorney

119 votes and 3 comments so far on Reddit

funny

Zoozti

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #2528 save/load saves who had strong/weak before now

which is a very bad behaviour. There are often parts that are MUCH harder with weak where u cant swap now. People which finished in the past and were able to swap weak/strong now have an unfair advantage because people cant do that anymore. I dont see the use of saving who has strong since there is a penalty already anyway. This must be reverted

delete strong/weak troll

U

heinrich5991

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue closed: #2528 save/load saves who had strong/weak before now

Yeah heinrich just ignore the community as u always do

1

@ᶰ°Konͧsti I can reopen the issue if you can discuss in a saner manner. I explicitly warned you. feel free to edit your comment and I can reopen

I didnt use rude language

you said something must be done. that's obviously not true. you can say that you want something done instead

And its not even worth an isse because there cant be a discussion about reverting a completely unfair change to the gameplay

15:09

If it was never possible from beginning it would be ok, but changing it after 6 years how can u Come to such an idea

what was the reason for this change

Zwelf thought its a nice idea and heinrich just added it

idk, I won't discuss it with people only talking in absolutes

15:10

@noby

im just asking lol

idk, I won't discuss it with people only talking in absolutes

@heinrich5991 Thats an absolute

yup. about whom I talk to

15:11

@noby yes, I'm answering that I haven't looked into it yet

https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/commit/f2b5abb1fba696e24e33cefb1b46532f0a4fbe05 this i assume?

Konsti seems to think so

If i report a game breaking exploit and say it MUST BE FIXED quick heinrich would ignore it

15:13

how can one not understand the Problem with this pr

15:13

Ask any player and they all tell u thats bad

we didn't get that far (discussing the PR)

15:14

(by we I mean Konsti and me)

u didnt discuss it when adding it

15:14

So why u want a discussion now?

I don't want to have a discussion with you right now, see above

Me neither cuz its not worth a discussion

k

isnt it making some old ranks unbeatable

ur only problem is the player who opened the issue, not the issue or the language itself

15:16

No it doesnt

15:16

It just makes maps harder

15:17

Which is unfair and even noby understands who dont play DDRace

skist

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #2529 revert #2424?

Saving weak and strong on the tees seems kinda unfair for me because players could swap it in the past. Sometimes you come to a part that will be really hard if you got weak, for example rocketfly or dragging down a deepfreezed tee. Solutions can be adding /spec by default or going back to the old behaviour of saving with weak and strong.

Lol I wondered why saving to swap weak/strong didnt work anymore

16:13

Strange "fixes" these last few weeks with the giving random words as a save and now with saving who has weak and strong

I think when it comes to such gameplay related decisions its wise to listen to skilled long time players like konsti

ur only problem is the player who opened the issue, not the issue or the language itself

@ᶰ°Konͧsti no, u look like a complete retard here

16:56

lets be honest

I'm just glad no one noticed that before the random words thing you could finish infinite times with one save near the finish line on a day with ddos

16:59

I vote we revert f2b5abb1 people have been using it for a long time and we don't have an alternative for it

i think there should be a better alternative

i vote not reverting it just to piss konsti

@Ryozuki please

With 2 person teams, maybe. With n person saves, there is no good way to decide on the tee order except loading as is

saving adds one minute to the time right? i doubt u can not take a rank one in the current state then

btw, discuss on github to have forum-style discussion @Learath2

Didn't you nuke Konsti's issue?

17:02

I guess we could talk on the other one

there's a new one

probs his second account

idc, it was civil

Ask any player and they all tell u thats bad

@ᶰ°Konͧsti any player around your circle*

17:05

it was such a big problem that you are the only and first to complain here btw

I know the perfect fix for this, let's remove strong hook

1

weak hook?

well yes, but removing either will just leave one hook strength

He'll cry regardless, so I support that idea poggers

hm maybe save/load abuse could be embraced. add a server message:

Did you know: you can switch positions and change which tees have strong/weak hook, by renaming and changing the strong/weak order inbetween saving and loading.

add /spec to that map, it will make new r1 possible, but its better than the other way around, not making new r1 possible

yes, please remove weak hook, it's the most cursed thing ever

2

if you do that there will be more than a konsti coming here i think

17:11

idk everyone always cries that he has weak hook, if everyone has strong hook then nobody will cry

I put 20$ on Wombat being the second one to complain after Konsti if we remove weak hook

Safest fix would be to make it somehow toggleable

you're new here, huh?

and taking care of weak hook in maps is just the worst thing ever

u can fix the konsti complain by adding spec to that map

17:12

p simple

u can fix konsti complaining by not listening to konsti

best

reverting f2b5abb1 is easier than having a pink rat trolling on servers just to annoy us

We had the discussion with deleting weak hook already and its a complicated things

17:14

stop trolling

ur the one trolling

ur

i thought the problem wasnt that its complicated just that it might break some maps

is there even a single part that works with weak and not strong? (except some stupid floating point crap part)

and that there was no easy way to find which maps it affects

save/load being fixed doesnt break maps, it only makes some "harder"

17:14

u can fix that by adding spec on that map

17:15

nobody maps around the idea of save loading

Anyway, we removed a gameplay option without giving an alternative and unless we find a good alternative we should revert it

1

There actually is a normal part that only works with weak xd

the alternative is to add spec to the map

wouldn't it be simply great if all parts... just worked?

spec can be abused on certain parts, so you have to look through maps to make sure you can't

what is an example of a part that only works with weak hook

a rocketfly map is a 2 team map

17:15

i doubt ucan abuse

17:16

spec

u cant just delete weak hook. Either u fix it "wrong" and still have all the other weak physics left but cant really figure out who has the real strong now or you fix the complete physic and will have the game broken because things like speedfly, hammerrun etc wont work anymore

No way to find all maps that would need spec and no way to know what kind of cheats Konsti can come up with spec on some maps

konsti

this here for example only works with weak

u can delete weak hook and give all strong, look at kog

konsti the one who complains about this useless stuff

17:16

can tell the maps

@Knuski how so? isn't it a basic ddmax part

@noby you don't really do speedflys or shotgun runs on kog

o

kog is simple

17:17

ddnet is not

@Knuski are you coming from the left or right?

remove kog tab

from the left

17:17

Hook is too strong to allow the tee to go past the corner up

@Ravie i played it today and well yes it is but the thing is that there shouldnt be freeze at the third tile either but there is freeze at the third so it only works with weak (edited)

ohh

@Learath2 from left

u can delete weak hook and give all strong, look at kog

@noby Its not a thing that can go for DDNet, weak is a deep physic that is the basic for a lot physics

I never thought about that type of part being impossible with strong hook, I noticed I sometimes struggle with them, it would make sense that it's a strong / weak issue. Is it actually impossible with strong though?

@Skeith just tested it out, yes

@Knuski I did it with strong but it's a bit tricky

Very common part too

works though, so map not broken

so that map requires a way to switch weak/strong?

if ur not touching the actual weak physics but giving strong hook for all u need at least and indicator who has the real strong

weakstrong.map

703 bytes

well but u still need to make things differently then which is kinda bad @Ravie

@Ravie lies, show demo

Speedfly is a main weak physic

if ur not touching the actual weak physics but giving strong hook for all u need at least and indicator who has the real strong

@ᶰ°Konͧsti i cant find the sense in this, if u have everyone strong hook weak doesnt exist

ok sec need to record one

Nah ryooki ur wrong

1

how

17:20

explain it

We already had strong hook on DDNet

17:21

It didnt fix the other weak physics, only the hook but u cant tell who has real strong now

if everyone has strong there is no real or fake strong

first stage at 2long, needs weak hook would be surprised if not, make recording

that sounds like it wasnt fixed correctly

@Ryozuki the trouble occurs when you collide

if u fix it correctly things like speedfly wont work anymore

you have another ordering problem there

Bouncing behaviour is part of weak and strong

Just shows how stupid this bug is, people aren't 100% sure if certain things are possible / impossible with it. Really fucks with the integrity of the game. Shit just feels random

Skeith ur playing like 1 year u know nothing

LOL

The game isnt random

@ᶰ°Konͧsti stop that

I've been playing for 11 years though

stop belittling people

Yea go watching over any word i say but let the others insult xD

remove_weak.demo

44.92 KB

I smell hypocrite

ez pz

@ᶰ°Konͧsti dont worry, heinrich already pmed me about how i talk too

@ᶰ°Konͧsti PM me about it, I'll handle it

Nobody gonna download this demo and paste it and open client without knowing what to see

It shows strong hook working for that type of part

@Ravie well okay but u have to keep in mind that that shouldnt be a problem and many ppl wont even think about doing smth like that

still, I proved my point

@Ravie does it make that type of part feel worse though? Does it take a more specific timing?

it works

and it also slows u down in a run

you need to hammer when he starts moving away

17:25

for a little boost (edited)

I'm guessing you need to let them unfreeze?

17:26

I don't remember if it's possible when there's freeze there, I don't remember if there's any like that

but this rules out this part for "not working with weak"

17:26

show me another one

I don't believe so

that's insanely more difficult though, like unbalanced more difficult

there was some type of flying with two tees that someone tried and it wouldnt work on fng bcs all had strong

but it doesn't break the maps, would some one ancient ddmax move be enough to stop progress on ddnet?

dont remember exactly what it was but maybe thats an example

So it requires the tee to hammer right as they're moving away? The other way works no matter when you time it, from what I can tell. So it'd feel worse

17:27

(Weak hook)

also someone could just fix maps with this move and remove one freeze

17:27

just an idea

@Skeith do u remember i think u were there

Hm? You mean with murpi? I think everything worked fine?

@Ravie that would be the best solution probably

hmm i thought there was 1 thing yall couldnt do without weak

@Skeith hammer is not needed

and yes

@Ravie it's a stupidly common part

well if we miss some then someone will report them

17:30

and it's not like it makes the maps impossible to finish

Another point was, a mechanic actually required it.. Involving shotgun

17:31

Or multiple

17:31

Which is the bigger issue

besides if it's such a common move then there is definitely some map(s) where you have strong there with no way to switch

17:31

unless you do /save fuckery, knonsti

As i said if ur giving strong hook to all but not touching the bouncing physics u should have an indicator that shows who got real strong / weak

then fix it properly

I think the idea was to give no one a weak hook, but that might be a good idea, just making weak hook not as weak?

17:33

If everything else would still work

that could be even worse

@heinrich5991 https://zaiste.net/posts/shell-commands-rust/ cool stuff

Rewritten in Rust: Modern Alternatives of Command-Line Tools · zais...

Rewritten in Rust: Modern Alternatives of Command-Line Tools

but even fixing weak hook hammerfly would be a step forward

Ravie u cannot fix it properly xD

17:34

unless u want like every map broken because speedfly wont work anymore or shotgunrun especially on old maps

speedfly only needs one hook, that being strong

fix weak plz

there are like what? 2000 maps? you can't just make such a big change and "assume" every map is still playable. the decisions have to be quite well thought through. the fact that you can't switch weak and strong anymore is already concerning

lol wtf how is speedfly broken if u fix strong/weak

@ReD surely there's no map that got through testing where you need a /load/save cycle to finish?

@ReD well if there is any issue and someone finds it then he will likely report it

@heinrich5991 yes there is

???

or they wont know thats the reason they cant do the part and just think the map is too hard and give up

i think pentamine there is a part that is veeeery difficult with weak where you have to do some insane shotgun snipes

17:37

and if u have strong u literally just hold hook

17:37

ive used save/load twice there

17:38

to switch out

speedfly only needs one hook, that being strong

@Ravie w r o n g

@louis many parts are significantly more difficult with weak

Speedfly is not related to the hook but to The bouncing

delete maps which need weak hook and remove weak hook

17:39

it's bad

wrong you can do speedfly without even touching

lol wtf

17:39

yeah

17:39

u dont need the bounce for speedfly

Its still releated to the bouncing

Pretty sure murpi was doing speedfly perfectly fine on noby's server that has only strong hook

ye im on kog and it seems to work fine

noby server has strong hook just like KoG

17:41

but they still have weak physics

well strong/weak is technically fixed on these servers? or is there something else

@louis this part?

Yes Kog and fng have strong hook for all just like DDNet had years ago

17:42

For a short time

yes

but it doesnt fix the weak physics u need in DDRace

17:44

@louis but you can go back and swap to let strong go left here

Maybe u can there but not everywhere. The start of the discussion was to be able to swap weak and strong by save and load again

@ᶰ°Konͧsti well then the question is which parts are now broken

@ᶰ°Konͧsti there's no need for that if weak is removed

@ReD if u dont know that its easier w strong then u wouldnt go back

17:56

also i think its sg and laser so sg is required to go left

@ᶰ°Konͧsti there's no need for that if weak is removed

@Ravie Wrong?XD

what wrong?

17:56

there's no need to switch if everyone has strong

I just showed why fix dont work

"the difficulty of this part is an arrow if you happen to have weak" that's seems just like a mapping mistake then fix map bei either making arrows speed 3 or adding turnoffentities arrow to say strong goes left

1

its just an example of how strong/weak can affect how a part is done

Speedfly is related to bouncing even when u dont touch because a strong tee would fly up faster and bounce against the upper tee which stops the speedfly

18:00

Tees have Something like a gravity in a speedfly

if map hasnt strong/weak necessity make variable like sv_strong_only 1

18:07

idk

18:09

if ddnet will have new idea related for physics, it will should mark old maps for "old physics" (edited)

If having only one hook strength breaks too many things, when why not just allowing spec on every map by default?

18:16

Whoever plays for longer is more annoyed by the fact spec isn't enabled, than by the fact it is

18:16

and to make it more annoying right now, there are some map series in which only specific ones allow specing

@Soreu it doesn't really have anything to do with /spec. you could have a command that allows you to give strong

18:17

/spec has other side effects

Yes, but that's overcomplicating with another annoying cmd to remember

why? no one would use spec anymore

can we at least have a tile that gives you strong or weak

2

spec have the advantages of temporarily not blocking someone else

pls no

if we allow /spec on all maps, it will be easier to do stuff with tees being into each other and shotgun

it would be useful if used right

8:17 PM] Soreu: spec have the advantages of temporarily not blocking someone else

yes, and of enabling cheating

18:18

you can e.g. push someone out

18:18

if two people land close to freeze edge

then fix sg-to-the-space bug? or otherwise, make map setting to disallow spec >.>

@Ravie that would simply mess up the strong/weak order for the following parts

having the tee in freeze hammer immediately also broke several things & maps, yet it is kept as it have more pros than cons

in teamforced maps it would be useful

18:19

just add a strong hook tile after each part

@Soreu that was always possible

@Soreu what did it broke?

if two people land close to freeze edge

@heinrich5991 that one is even more useful kek

would the strong hook tile make the tees switch weak/strong

18:20

or literally give strong to any tee that entered

@Soreu the change did not allow hammering in freeze, was possible before

18:20

it only made it easier

@Soreu that was always possible

@heinrich5991 it was not possible to stack 10 tees in freeze and make them hammer at the same time (well only technically)

@Animefan it was very possible

ppl will be blocking others to get the strong hook tile justatest

@Animefan we tried. unlocked scroll wheel, 100%

@noby i think would kinda do the /spec effect on the tee that touches it (without disappearing)

ohh interesting

then fix sg-to-the-space bug? or otherwise, make map setting to disallow spec >.>

@Soreu Its used in some maps and maps has already been cheated with it

strong hook tile could have even more funny effects in team of more than 2 players

or make this just a bind, giving strong without disappearing

yes, that might be possible

so you don't have to enable spec in maps

https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/2529#issuecomment-667267197

revert #2424? · Issue #2529 · ddnet/ddnet

Saving weak and strong on the tees seems kinda unfair for me because players could swap it in the past. Sometimes you come to a part that will be really hard if you got weak, for example rocketfly ...

Also i dont need spec to do shotgun bug anywhere in the map, there are ways to do it anyway xD

with ninja

No

pinkrat

when someone does the command what would it do, give them strong on which tees

Its possible on every map

unsolo tile, no collision tile

@noby everyone

18:24

eh

18:24

give them weak on everyone

18:24

like /spec

yeah

ahh

Let's say we have 2 players - top one drags bottom one thru the part. Top one uses /GetStrongHook, and in middle of the part the bottom one uses same command - hook physics changing during hookingm

same effect as spec/unspec but always keep collision

@Ravie its possible on any map that contains shotgun on any place

hm im worried a command like that could be used in the middle of tees interacting with eachother and bug out or smth

@ᶰ°Konͧsti Now you got me curious :p

would it work to just despawn and respawn the character on the same tick

18:25

to give it weak on all

@louis same

@noby remember that save bug

@noby or just reorder the character list, yes

that was despawning and respawning on same tick i think xd

no, what save bug

@louis it would be the same as spec so you can't do it in air or while being hooked

it was a while ago where u could avoid wep cooldown

18:26

oh yeah that would probably work then

I still feel like spec is the easiest solution >.> pushing someone by unspecing rather won't be extremely useful. And the sg bug - pink troll rat already said that spec is not needed for it, so...

18:28

even if Konsti is lying, I'd rather trust him anyway due to his experience in that topic justatest

just ban shotgun

@Soreu we don't need to look for the easiest solution code-wise

18:29

and the problem is really there

18:29

it'd change gameplay I think

say you have a map where you need to switch strong hook around, you simply can't use sg in that map

make the sg shoot bullets again like it does in vanilla

3

@heinrich5991 I didn't think code-wise, rather trying not to overcomplicate it for players and use already available solutions known by playerbase

I have the feeling that people using /save/load to swap weak and strong are sufficiently invested in the game

@Soreu wut. im not aware about how to overlay tees anywhere. i would guess that you need some setup, maybe reverse speedfly or smth. i dont think that is reason enough to allow spec+sg cheesing on all sg maps

We could enable spec by default for any map in future except the mapper puts spec off in server settings (ChillerDragon thonkery

)

Fixing things related to available options seems more reasonable than introducing new things, especially since lately there were a lot of additional options added

which?

18:32

which were added recently?

new commands & options for existing ones

18:35

#2472

https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/2472

Add function to show health and armor in nameplates. (mainly for se...

The effect is as follows: use cl_nameplates_ha to switch on-off. (default is off) use cl_nameplates_ha_size to adjust size of health and armor nameplates. Mainly for server-side-recorded demos. ...

#2390

eh, that's not ddnet related

https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/2390

Support cl_show_hook_coll_own/other 2 to always show (fixes #2383) ...

hook collision, without broadcasting to other players. Removed cl_show_hook_coll_always in return Renamed cl_video_showhookcollother to cl_video_show_hook_coll_other for consistency

that's also not gameplay related

18:36

it's not something you have to know to play the game

yeah, heinrich asks for new serverside/gameplay options

Then the last one of which I know is making freeze hammers easier

one thing i remembered is teleport by weapons

and about maps it broke - I think one was @Ravie 's

@Soreu it did not change what's possible

18:37

we were able to reproduce it before the fix, too

18:37

100%

18:37

with a unlocked scroll wheel

what does unlocked mean

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dap5lEuS5uM

Mouse

@noby I guess similar to how I broke your server with touchpad

hahaha

18:39

ravie yeah but i think most people who use scrollwheel with that bind

18:39

can break it in the same way lol

but not as good xd

The main argument for the new hammer was that they said the hammer is random or luck which is wrong, it was a learnable skill

18:40

Nobody would use mousewheel bind in a hammerfly

new hammer allows great parts

it would be interesting to see what an 'unlocked' scrollwheel does compared to ur touchpad and the mice ive tested

and huge cheats

1

we tried it, it worked in hammerfly @ᶰ°Konͧsti

new hammer breaks a lotta parts too lol

@ᶰ°Konͧsti i started to use it, it was actually quite ez to use

but its fine

@ᶰ°Konͧsti no new cheats were enabled

because its a huge improvement in many aspects

we tested it beforehand

oh yeah u could technically cheat w/out it i guess

@heinrich5991 yes it works but nobody would really do it in the moment ur going to fail. It was a big skill to hit the timed hammer and now isnt

The argument that unlocked scroll wheel allows you to hammer 100% of the time is a perfect reason to make that hammer change imo.

if something like that introduces new exploits wouldnt they likely be obscure things that only happen in really specific situations? seems hard to test this

Good aim allows u to hit the enemy anyway so we can place an aimbot in the client

@noby well, we also understood the code

18:42

it allows you to hammer if you do it in exactly the moment you get unfrozen

@ᶰ°Konͧsti yes they would, it is 100% consistent. why wouldnt they. while you can definitely practice that, you wont get to 100%

Thats the point of a skill

18:43

That its not possible 100%

understanding the code definitely helps yeah but arent most exploits found by players ingame

it also allowed people on bad connections to do deepfly

exactly, so having a way that gives you 100% kinda defeats the purpose of the skill

which is a good thing

90% of people that argues against Konsti here either doesnt speedrun or they dont play the game a lot to see how much stuff will actually break

no

konsti doesnt speedrun xd

konsti just exploits

1

Since u disabled deepfly by default on all maps

also a lot of ppl in this channel are pretty experienced w/ the game so i wouldn't say that lol

I didn't disable that @ᶰ°Konͧsti

Even on maps were it was possible before

that was other people

I was against it, but majority prevailed

now u know the feeling feelsbadman

speedruns usually find unique ways to do map that other people wont even think about doing

+i do speedrun sometimes

18:45

Like my last r1

Deepfly breaks too much shit, disabling it on all was a good choice

Exploiting is just more fun

unique ways to do map that other people wont

like exploiting

1

4

1

Disabling deepfly on all maps broke topranks

18:46

that u cant beat anymore

18:47

ik its enabled ok Skychase for example but not on all maps that had this

was it ever officially reported because something that makes old ranks unbeatable doesnt sound like it would be accepted from what ive heard so far (edited)

Hey, I dont seem to be able to add proper SecurityToken support for ddnet clients for my 0.7 server. Here is where I added all of it, but in the current state it looks like I am just ignoring the tokens and ddnet clients seem to have unsecured connections, my server is currently beeing flooded.

20:53

https://github.com/fokkonaut/F-DDrace/commit/f8e3d0d5283cc46542c550ecfb875fcfe0a8ec36#diff-8be0b73182ebc28e83f65ab6d3335e90

20:54

maybe someone can look at this/ fix it? i really dont understand all of that

I think the token checking should take place here: https://github.com/fokkonaut/F-DDrace/blob/95a6b85b37c4af3e02c9f9ccd7e8007fb6855af0/src/engine/shared/network_server.cpp#L194-L204

fokkonaut/F-DDrace

F-DDrace is a server mod for Teeworlds 0.7 developed by fokkonaut. - fokkonaut/F-DDrace

22:36

hm

22:37

actually no, I don't quite understand

22:43

ah, one problem is that you save information about a 0.6 client after they send you NET_CTRLMSG_CONNECT