DDraceNetwork - developer

DDraceNetwork

Development / developer

Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.tw/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories — IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet

Between 2020-07-18 00:00:00Z and 2020-07-19 00:00:00Z

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #2516 Bug: Ninja slash would cross unsolo tiles without triggering unsolo

This leads to failure in some maps for example moderate minion TELE 5. Haven't test if solo can be skipped as well.

^ I think same happens for checkpoints

05:31

but not 100% sure

ninja skips tiles

i think it can skip all cept kill and blocks

That behaviour is known and used in many maps

I'm quite sure it is more bugged than it was before, but will test it when I'm back home

its not bugged

06:20

Its kinda straight

06:20

you can skip any unsolid tile except kill and only 1 block wide

lol since when? You cannot skip multiple stoppers using ninja anymore? Doesnt that break maps?

I guess nothing of the behaviour is changed if i read this correctly

Hey, I found some inconsisten naming schemes within the editor. In the tooltip it states "Flip brush horizontal" and the button at the top uses X/X. When you use this option the tile will be flipped in horizontal DIRECTION. But when you turn Info on, it will be asigned with a V (for vertical), stating the LINE it was mirorred on. Imo you should decide for one of the two options instead of using both, since it's confusing.

Image attachment

@ChillerDragon no, stoppers still can be skipped no matter how much

08:16

but tiles that have a gameoption on them only one tile wide as always

https://matklad.github.io//2020/07/15/two-beautiful-programs.html

Two Beautiful Rust Programs

This is a short ad of a Rust programming language targeting experienced C++ developers.Being an ad, it will only whet your appetite, consult other resources ...

1

Image attachment

12:14

rust protects you from things u dont even know

careful, you might wake people up

yeah

12:15

lets not wake learath justatest

justatest

12:18

@heinrich5991 https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/hswzps/readable_function_composition/

r/rust - Readable function composition

50 votes and 14 comments so far on Reddit

12:18

look this

12:18

u can compose functions

12:18

kinda cool

oh, closures are no longer voldemort types? ^^

12:21

I like #![feature(type_alias_impl_trait)]

12:22

it used to be the case that closures have a type that cannot be named

12:22

but this seems to fix that

:o

but alas, it's not stable yet

cloudflare makes monopoly

12:52

then we get unstable services

@fokkonaut where did you get the coala skins from? https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/1218

added skin prefix by fokkonaut · Pull Request #1218 · ddnet/ddnet

not sure, from the forum maybe

and the santa skins

15:58

ok

i think too

Am woken up

17:22

If size of vector doesnt change no need to invalidate iterators, if you are a dimwit that can't read the documentation for the container you use, I guess the rust compiler will save you from your idiocy

17:23

Let me look at the second beautiful example of the rust compiler showing off how it's smarter than the programmer

17:27

Ah the second one is indeed cute, if you haven't heard of shared_ptr or atomics

17:32

I sure.the marketing method of antagonizing their potential users and calling people who do perfectly sane things idiots in blogposts will help a lot with the growth

17:32

s/I/I'm/

did you actually read the post

17:48

If any of these constraints is broken, the compiler rejects the code. There’s no need for std::shared_ptr just to defensively make sure that the memory isn’t freed under your feet.

17:48

this is the point

"just to" that is the point to using shared_ptr

ur so mad i find it funny

I'm not mad, I'm just interested in why everyone is so interested in taking random claims as is without any exposition

17:50

Honestly, you could code in brainfuck for all I care

rust is coming to the linux tree

17:51

btw

That,'s great to hear, it can mature in the driver tree for a while

https://www.zdnet.com/article/programming-languages-now-rust-project-looks-for-a-way-into-the-linux-kernel/

Programming languages: Now Rust project looks for a way into the Li...

The Rust programming language gets a nod of approval from Linux creator Linus Torvalds.

17:57

"If building Rustic interfaces within the kernel requires some additional language features, we should see what enhancements to the language would best serve those requirements,"

17:57

thats great

17:58

the good thing about a community driven and evolving language

That's the most clickbait summary I've seen but yeah. I read about it on the mailing list

and actually the title is incorrect

17:59

linux wants to pull rust, rust never tried to push it

It'd be nice to see if rusts community will try to evolve the language so it fits well into the kernel code

ARM also donated to rust

18:00

to make arm toolchain tier 1

How much support from rust is needed anyway? LLVM is doing the assembling

https://github.com/raw-bin/rfcs/blob/promote-aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu-to-tier-1/text/0000-promote-aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu-to-tier1.md

RFCs for changes to Rust. Contribute to raw-bin/rfcs development by creating an account on GitHub.

18:05

i think rust just neeeded this

18:05

"All necessary supporting infrastructure, including dedicated hardware, to build and run the Rust compiler and compiler tests reliably must be available openly."

18:05

to make it a tier 1

18:05

thus the donation helped

18:05

they donated this https://www.packet.com/cloud/servers/c2-large-arm/

Based on Ampere's eMag processor, this server doesn't fail to impress.

32 fast cores meet 128GB of RAM in our latest

Ah so corporate support kinda deal

18:06

Honestly I'd be surprised if rust had trouble compiling to any llvm target

18:08

Oh, I wonder how arm is doing in server hw these days. Their fixed width ISA and thumb mode could actually give nice benefits

@Learath2 what do you think about ECS in game engines

18:10

i see it works like treating the ECS as a database, you query components from a entity you have

18:10

idk if its worth this overhead

18:10

it helps organize things tho

18:11

also the systems help with threading i guess

Hm, I don't have a preference really. I think with how bad compilers are with devirtualization ECS might have better performance than inheritence approaches

imagine tw with ecs

18:12

xD

That's how I would have coded it probably

me too

18:12

after discovering ecs

But I don't have a strong preference, inheritance can also look cute

thanks to this https://amethyst.rs/ i learnt how it works

Amethyst - The open source, data-driven game engine

Amethyst - The open source, data-driven game engine

18:14

actually, systems would make the code cleaner in tw, you wouldnt need 100 points to other components (e.g the client)

18:14

points -> pointers

That is our failure honestly

xD

I actually generated a map of pointers between classes and was looking to eliminate some links to make the hierarchy more pyramidlike

18:15

Than got distracted with massive ddos so worked on network code

Embedded image

18:16

ddos kiddos

18:16

im surprised the tournament went rly well

Embedded image

what means red?

Honestly been a long time since I generated it, don't quite remember

the cool thing about rust is that you can do it without shared ptr and the compiler will yell at you when you break some invariant so that it is no longer allowed

18:19

i.e. the rust code doesn't contain the unneeded atomic reference counting, but will not break when one modifies it

You can achieve minimum cost in both languages, rust just seems to make it easier to minimize it, which is nice

and it is sufficient to locally understand the code when one changes it

@heinrich5991

Image attachment

18:22

did u know about this?

18:23

matching with tuples

18:23

rly cool

yes, I know matching with tuples

https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/hp6guz/what_feature_of_rust_is_used_very_often_by/

r/rust - What feature of Rust is used very often by experienced pro...

263 votes and 190 comments so far on Reddit

18:23

interesting thread

indeed useful, but that is a fizzbuzz

18:23

the opposite of interesting

poggers

18:24

that implementation is nice tho

not IMO

18:25

too indirect

Image attachment

check out rocket if you like this

i already use rocket

18:25

it will also come to stable

ah nice

1.45 rlsed

how do you like it?

18:25

I never wrote a project in that framework

i love the request guards

18:26

i didnt use it much tho, no ideas

Rocket looked nice

my bad rust code

Image attachment

I'd probably use go for most of that kind of work, it looks far more suitable

go is nice

18:28

but i feel it kinda lacks a mature and good framework

18:28

i dont feel satisfied

18:28

rocker makes it a joy

18:29

i didnt find that in go

Yeah, that's why I've been waiting on looking at go

18:29

It honestly looks like the only language where concurrency is a first class feature of the language

https://pastebin.com/Dr0bdj9n

[Go] func (a *ItemController) create(c echo.Context) error { cc :...

18:31

look how many times i check err != nil

18:31

xD

18:31

its a bit sad

Well I'm a huge fan of the old pattern

18:34

I'm all for checking and handling errors asap

rust also helps you with this IMO

18:34

https://heinrich5991.de/teeworlds/ddnet/2020-07-18-ddnet-skins.csv

18:34

     31 "added by fokkonaut, “from forums”"
     30 Whis
     17 Teeworlds
     15 Ravie
     12 eb3580f257da9f74864fb3e10fe7a8fbe7cd668e
     11 Moby Dog
      3 Miper
      1 ghost
      1 fe789f3b788486be9545486ac999a98b75d05922
      1 e5a2f5412e6783021549aa776e56b7a5149c6f5c
      1 e3559581b2e0c3ebe8ec690a038c801e340a3027
      1 chew
      1 btd
      1 a8ad349ed81d4d839afbd3abc6852da0743276f2
      1 Why
      1 Patwo.*
      1 Obst (9e3cd7836969ee2a90515e84361d6b61f71a4a91)
      1 Aoe
      1 7a5935d298e112aef1b1d20d1a8e9d18b9d66dff
      1 0549e1ef62e6a8eb8589fb8e3f4a76a498d4f360

whats this?

our current skin situation

Exception pattern seems nice but losing locality in your errors makes them very hard to actually handle, hence everyone else and their mothers suggest you die on most exceptions

skin authors

18:35

now we need to find at least Whis, Ravie, Moby Dog, perhaps Miper

Image attachment

18:36

xD

Whis on this discord is not the correct whis, right?

18:36

Ravie is here, at least

18:36

Moby Dog I can probably reach

18:37

so whis is the most problematic

just trace the ddos ips troll

troll

Not sure who whis is, tbf. The name is roughly familiar but the whis here seems to be associated with vali, which I don't remember whis being a ddosing dickweed

whis made lot of skins

I think he stopped playing(?)

18:38

I remember playing ddrace with a whis

Fireball-Teeworlds

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #2517 Fix sixup players not making sounds when hooking others

I've restructured the code to make it easier to read. There are two differences in it's behavior: 1. Hook sounds coming from sixup players are now only muted for the player themselves (using a mask) instead of being muted for everyone. This fixes at least one cause for #2508. 2. Mask for COREEVENT_GROUND_JUMP is now using Asker parameter to TeamMask(). I believe it was originally an oversight that this mask was different from the others. But the difference is barely noticeable: one...

Idk who the new guy is but I like his commits

you reviewing it?

Yep

a secret tw agent

Being back from vacation is so depressing

feelsbadman

forum is a gold mine

18:44

I'm ryozuki with another acc, because i got banned for... meh.

xdd

18:44

i was 15

18:44

dont look

I broke forum search apparently

18:45

can someone try to search for "coala" in the forums?

Purge ryozuki logs

xD

I need to finish my bowl of soup before doing anything

forum search is slow

ah got it

18:46

https://forum.ddnet.tw/viewtopic.php?t=5967

18:46

by manually going through all topcis in the skins category

18:47

     30 Whis
     17 Teeworlds
     16 forsaken (https://forum.ddnet.tw/viewtopic.php?t=5932)
     15 Ravie
     15 DanilBest (https://forum.ddnet.tw/viewtopic.php?t=5967)
     12 eb3580f257da9f74864fb3e10fe7a8fbe7cd668e
     11 Moby Dog
      3 Miper
      1 ghost
      1 fe789f3b788486be9545486ac999a98b75d05922
      1 e5a2f5412e6783021549aa776e56b7a5149c6f5c
      1 e3559581b2e0c3ebe8ec690a038c801e340a3027
      1 chew
      1 btd
      1 a8ad349ed81d4d839afbd3abc6852da0743276f2
      1 Why
      1 Patwo.*
      1 Obst (9e3cd7836969ee2a90515e84361d6b61f71a4a91)
      1 Aoe
      1 7a5935d298e112aef1b1d20d1a8e9d18b9d66dff
      1 0549e1ef62e6a8eb8589fb8e3f4a76a498d4f360

18:47

new list

18:48

also need Zerodin for Kobra 4 and TyxpekCZ for Goo!, although these are probably more replaceable

The maps we probably dont even need to ship, I guess it makes it easier to launch a server

yall should ship with a tutorial to mapping map

18:53

or a map with some info on how to work with a server

looks like CGC is super class

would be good to have a map, doesn't have to be Kobra 4

18:58

a ddnet map, preferably

Konsti let us CC0 all his maps, if only he didnt only make brutals

i have a solo map and a brutal map

19:01

the solo map is kinda good but not easy for a noob

19:02

https://ddnet.tw/maps/Gorou

19:02

greenthing

how about "gold mine" (<BµmM>) https://ddnet.tw/maps/Gold-32-Mine or "seasons" (Knight :3) https://ddnet.tw/maps/Seasons

do you have contact info of the latter?

no

I made a moderate and a novice map but no rls feelsbadman

feelsbadman

if you can contact hi_leute_gll

19:03

he probs can direct you

19:03

to knight

19:03

or maybe not

19:03

u

@ᶰ°Konͧsti no

konstitroll

stop trol

<BµmM> should be easily reachable on this discord

hi leute always tried to destroy DDNet

19:04

He bad

no

You can't say the r word anymore it's 2020

@<BµmM> trol

rword

im a retard

you can't directly insult people

19:05

whether you use retard, nigger, shit, fuck or what ever isn't relevant

omg

19:05

heinrich said the n word

19:05

justatest

justatest

5

Screenshotted

19:05

kek

kek

kek

kek

justatest

The fbi is coming for you @heinrich5991

justatest

3

reacting to urself

justatest

1

And the discordcops will shut us down, stop this risky speech

It already happened in ZDF

discord moderators also are nationalists

@heinrich5991 u must have a hard time playing dota 2

19:07

its a insult shithole

19:07

i include myself tho

19:07

lots of mothers fucked

@heinrich5991 I wonder how used are whis' skins

justatest

literally 90% of skins are made by whis

19:08

Even mine

@Ryozuki there's a mute functions for people abusing the chat

@ᶰ°Konͧsti this whis in this sv is troll right

its Whis

atlas by whis

troll1

3

zombouis

3

troll

2

also beast by his

atlas is gone

not

19:08

atlas was doubled

several people are typing

One been deleted

I wonder if valve would license us atlas

@heinrich5991 some companies grant you the permission to use some stuff tho

19:10

https://odinlaw.com/how-to-add-easter-eggs-to-your-game-legally/#:~:text=Overall%2C%20the%20concept%20of%20Easter,more%20likely%20an%20acceptable%20reference.

How to add Easter eggs to your game legally - Odin Law and Media

There's a fine line with copyright infringement and trademarks when it comes to Easter eggs in video games.

some quite popular ones were by whis

Overall, the concept of Easter eggs are legal. But it can be easy to infringe on copyright or trademarks depending on how an Easter egg is implemented. If a developer has its own creation and its own design that mimics an existing mechanic or reference in another game, it’s more likely an acceptable reference. If it references the developer’s own prior works, it’s even more likely acceptable. If a developer extracts an exact model of an asset in another game or clearly recreates its existing design, the developer may be infringing on copyrights of the original creator. Developers cannot and should not copy and paste another’s work. Period.

19:10

can the skin be considered a easter egg?

probably not

19:10

it's not just some one-off animation somewhere in the client

i build easter eggs in any of my maps

there is a map

19:11

with a anime image

19:11

xD

Theres a map with Osama bin laden image lmfao

19:12

Tunak tunak tun

https://ddnet.tw/mappreview/?map=Ghoul

19:13

xD

19:13

well

so

19:14

delete ghoul troll

troll

main priority: find a way to contact whis

19:15

ah

19:15

did he play as =whis= maybe?

19:16

is this server's CuBe =CuBe=, anyone know htis?

@deen we need the hugest Designer

19:16

Im friends with Whis

19:17

feelsamazingman

@thamasky are you =CuBe=? was whis in your clan, do you have contact info?

yes its cube

19:17

@heinrich5991 @deen is real Whis xD

please stop that… :/

?

19:18

Hes is Definitely real

unless you actually believe that the whis in this server made the skins that are shipped in ddnet client, please take your offtopic stuff somewhere else

dude

19:19

Im not trolling

okay, sorry

19:19

I was assuming you were

Im friends with Whis and this guy is the real Whis, at least he is having the design skills

since when does your whis play?

Whis wasnt playing for a long time

its probably the real whis

i think heinrich doesnt believe it because he assumes the "new" Whis would be a ddoser and racist feelsbadman

feelsbadman

thats true too

but is the real one tho xd maybe he didnt behave like that in the old times

Maybe he just grew to be a racist ddoser? People change in odd ways

I wonder why im friends with him

19:41

konstitroll

@heinrich5991 AFAIK, Knight :3 and hi_leute_gll are no longer active at all, so there's probably no way to contact them. Unless @Melio knows anything more... And by the way, why do you need it for? All skins & maps are going to get licensed finally?

at least the ones we ship with the client

20:59

I'm in favor of licensing the rest of the maps as well, but the priority is on the stuff we ship with the client

Bixes is alive

21:18

how to officially give cc0

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #2518 Clarify licensing of existing skins

https://heinrich5991.de/teeworlds/ddnet/2020-08-18-skins.csv Generated by cat skins.csv | xsv select author | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn.

[ ] 30 Whis
[ ] 17 Teeworlds
[ ] 16 forsaken (https://forum.ddnet.tw/viewtopic.php?t=5932)
[ ] 15 Ravie
[ ] 15 DanilBest (https://forum.ddnet.tw/viewtopic.php?t=5967)
[ ] 12 eb3580f257da9f74864fb3e10fe7a8fbe7cd668e
[ ] 11 Moby Dog
[ ] 3 Miper
[ ] 1 ghost
[ ] 1 fe789f3b788486be954...

21:28

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #2519 Clarify licensing of existing maps

Incomplete list, only if the author contacts us for now.

?

@ᶰ°Konͧsti okay, we can make it official now if you want

21:29

allow me to clarify the difference between CC-BY and CC0 quickly

21:30

CC0 means that anyone can take your map and create a new version of it without crediting you

21:31

CC-BY means that anyone can create a new map out of yours but has to credit you

21:31

personally, I'd probably go for CC-BY for my maps, but you're ofc free to choose

ok in this case i give CC-BY

DuMoH is also known under the nick locr1d if that helps. Either he is the author of https://ddnet.tw/skins/index.php?search=DuMoH or knows who created it

honestly the client skins could use some cleaning up, can delete all the ugly unfitting ones (edited)

dude heinrich

21:33

why are u again bringing this up

oh and by the way miper has been posting on teeworlds forum a bit not long ago

check #admin @jao

5

21:35

because of steam launch

what has konsti have to do with steam launch

im against license but i think giving CC-BY is the same thing were doing tight now

nothing, @ᶰ°Konͧsti wanted to do it by himself

so how is it related to #admin

licensing maps and included custom mapres seems like a good idea but sadly I don't think most people would care

that is not, I thought you were referring to the rest

big discussion incoming

21:37

xd

yeah @heinrich5991 why are you trying to license maps? did you torture Konsti in a CIA blacksite to let us license his maps?

how can u be so persistent and annoying about it

i just want to pretend myself from doing Aoe move "IM RAGING DELET MY MAPS"

lol

1

I mean it is a well known fact that all mappers do indeed hate licensing, they are all hasedic

I think anyone who put enough effort into his maps would like to have some control over how it gets used

jao could just add rule "by publishing your map to testing section you give all rights about it do DDNet" xd

discussion was finished last time, now he comes again and creates issues about it

I only created an issue about the skins

21:40

and then only for konsti so that we remember it

because steam wouldn't release the client with the copyrighted skins

I explicitly said "Incomplete list, only if the author contacts us for now."

i dont care about skins

you know turns out, corporations care about licensing

21:40

honestly, who would have thought

why are you so against licensing maps? the only downside I see is that people simply wouldn't care and do whatever they want anyway

I certainly didn't spend like 4 hours trying to argue that having licenses to things we publish is better than not having it

Maybe it happens that DDNet becomes popular on Some way and we get problems with licenses? xd

imagine maptesting when you have to check if any of the parts might be stolen from one of like 1k+ maps

u dont have

@Animefan it's not our responsibility if people infringe other peoples licenses

man u dont have to license our maps for steam

21:43

or are u going to restrict steam clients to ddnet servers

21:43

so there is no way people can end up on unlicensed maps

Yeah yeah whatever, licenses are the work of devil

good that u agree

I'll go have a sip of holy water to cleanse my tongue of this evil

i dont get it

21:44

we had this discussion already

21:44

and u still start it another time

Yes, you said it's annoying to mappers, we said we'll make it simple, you said we can't

21:44

discussion had

there is nothing simple about licenses

Beef between two admins

21:45

LETS GO

idc but if u gonna go for it i give it

u dont even know what u opted into

21:45

what im saying

Are you sure Konsti, god forbid, we might do unthinkable things to your map, like releasing it without credit

i said at last

no one knows what licenses you want to make mappers accept unless u are a lawyer

CC-BY

Then we can't even not give credit

21:47

I honestly want to die every time you say this

unless u are a lawyer

u want to believe everything is that easy

i think credit is important, changing to the maps might be ok

why is there a 1000 line faq about the license then

I see myself raging when heinrich changes physics and my maps wont work anymore

Because people might ask questions, god forbid

With CC-BY u can fix it without me Saying f4

Apparently you don't and you can't possibly understand the implications of CC-BY without having a law degree

facts

xd

You are not a lawyer either, how are you so confident?

i am somewhat of a lawyer myself

because there is a reason why lawyers exist

It's absolutely batshit insane to think one can't understand anything without having a degree in it. Especially when the entire point is for this to be approachable for the layperson

if law was so easy there wouldnt be need for lawyers

im jao

What do you need? For me to hire a lawyer?

change my mind

You are Konsti

21:51

Changed your mind

i will trust a lawyer

Fine I'll get one, which fucking country do you want one in and the fuck do you want him to say?

Maybe "Trafalgar Law" is a lawyer

but i wont trust heinrich

21:52

especially since hes kinda hypocritical

Maybe "Welf" is a lawyer

lmao

Whatever, heinrich = devil. Country? What do you need verified?

jao is the best testing Admin

Heinrich is not devil :(

i trust heinrich

there are some maps with copyrighted images from other games btw, for example that mario map

I honestly can't believe how you can delude yourself into thinking the dozens of actual lawyers that write these licenses don't know shit about copyright law and are just tricking everyone that uses these licenses

ye exaclty

21:55

i think u cant even legally license maps

21:56

if they contain tilesets or other maps

Like it's all fun and games, a bunch of lawyers sitting around in a room giggling at how they are fucking all the artists over

I wouldn't mind licensing all custom tilesets in my maps in a way that people have to state if they made changes

unless the other tilesets or maps have a compatible license

What is the endgame? Just waiting until enough people use the license so they can activate their trap card "loophole" and stealing everyones art?

Which part of the Adding licenses, especially if the map/skin creator decides himelf, is not harmful at all, yet not having it might be problem in the unknown yet events in future you don't get? Even Konsti got it without problems (no offence & notroll)

konsti didnt get anything

21:58

he just did it because heinrich said it

Yeah, konsti got scammed by me and heinrich

I didn't say he should license his maps

21:58

that is wrong @jao

u could have told him anything

even if that's true, it's not your business nor your reponsibility to say that he decided for license randomly

big yeet, I'll sell his maps on the somalian black market with this license

he did it because u talked about it

21:58

but he didnt collect info about what he was doing

konsti got Paid for saying all this

ofc he decided for it randomly

21:59

if heinrich told him another license he would have accepted it too

konsti is clearly too stupid to understand how a basic license works and is just saying things

1

Well, just to add some logs to the fire: I already decided how my map & skin should be licensed. And so, I want to see those licenses added.

He was looking to do it with CC0, heinrich told him the options, he chose CC-BY instead

heinrich told him the cc0 too

but obv I was DMing him in the background to make our case look better

last time

yeet

22:00

What an absolute joke... I'm still waiting on which country you want the lawyer in

22:00

Or do I need to get one in every country?

would germany suffice for you?

22:01

given that this is where we're from?

I'd say we should get licenses for the tilemaps we can too, but seeing how you react to the maps, I'm scared to even propose that

yea get the lawyer

22:02

ask if its legal to license maps that contain other tilesets or parts of other maps that dont have compatible licenses

is germany fine?

y

Imagine spending money because jao decided this is a great hill to die on

jao why do you want a lawyer, you dont have liability in this

only deen probs

22:03

just stop this ridiculous hate towards heinrich

u are the ones who dont want to accept it lol

licensing maps is common sense, the CC-BY licenses are human readable, they are project made for this

22:04

so stop this bullshit

[1:04 AM] jao: u are the ones who dont want to accept it lol

22:04

The fact that you unanimously decided this is a bad idea?

@Learath2 how can you allow 1 admin to gatekeep something so important

so u think its normal to start a discussion again and again after its done because the result isnt ur opinion?

"its done"? whats done

if its so important why has no one cared about it for 7 years

Result? What result @jao ? Everytime you swoop in and say we aren't lawyers and say discussion is over

if its so important why dont u license old maps or remove them

because we werent on a platform such as steam were there can be legal issues

that argument is hypocritical

its common sense

What discussion even, it's only us trying to appease you, for hours at end and you just saying no

@Learath2 the result was that u couldnt answer my questions and stopped responding

why do we even try to appease him? just lets do it

the thing is steam cares about licenses and maps that ddnet releases as official are ddnet's responsibility

this guy is to ego to accept anything right now

if steam cares about licenses then u have to only allow ddnet servers for steam client

22:07

otherwise any random server can put illegal maps up

omg

We are responsible for what we publish

22:07

What some random server publishes isn't our concern

we dont ship ddnet servers with the configuration of ddracenetwork, we ship only a server and client executable along with some skins

u ship ddnet client to steam

22:08

not our ddnet srv

tell us

22:08

whats so wrong

22:08

about licensing the map

22:08

go ahead

22:08

this is ridiculous

It's not worse than what we have right now

ive said my opinion last time already

the map licensing is not directly related to steam (except for the two maps we ship with the client)

tell me

22:09

i dont remember it

22:09

go

whats an illegal map

yes

22:09

i agree that u have to license the maps in the client

we can license the maps on released on ddnet too

22:09

there is no pejorative

you can do anything

22:09

but u dont have to

22:10

and its not important af like u make it look like

your mindset is the one i hate most

22:10

stall in ur life

22:10

it's important for some people

22:10

just because u dont care

22:10

ur just ego

if its so important then why havent u done it 7 years ago

22:11

ur ego

BECAUSE WE DIDN'T THINK ABOUT IT

this excuse

why didnt u think about it

Because most of us aren't 17yo anymore

Hi im too dumb to decide

projects grow

I kind of laugh at how 4 ppl have to explain to one guy why this is important, like explaining it to him even matters

@Soreu it kinda does when he can just stop us from doing it

it wasn't done 7 years ago because ddnet wasn't going on steam 7 years ago

if he wasnt in care of map testing i would just make him go

22:13

we should probs search someone else

put someone else for map testing

wesmart

3

22:13

one of the testers

@Learath2 how he can stop you, if you are responsible for the code, servers, and so on. Unless I'm missing some point that he has legal rights to block everything due to getting console rights on the servers

I'll just go to sleep, tired of arguing. I'll try contacting a german lawyer that specialises in copyright law tomorrow and hope he'll give me a discount

and that

if its so important then why havent u done it 7 years ago

dumbest argument ever

he's an admin and we don't want to push forward for something that someone disagrees with so vehemently

22:15

my take

Either way, you ain't forcing anyone to add the licenses. You are ASKING to do so

and ur argument to remove me because i disagree with u is good? XD

22:15

what about respecting someones opinion

says you

22:15

who just because someone says x u directly disagree

@Soreu we work as a team, can't really go ahead when people are objecting as it takes all of us to run this thing

i gave u arguments for my opinion

u still havent provided proper arguments

Respecting someone's opinion is one thing, being completely close-minded about specific subjects is another, when you don't even get the arguments presented by others

if i think those arguments make sense, whats wrong about it?

tell me your arguments

So did we, which you dismissed the entirety of because we aren't lawyers

im not completely close minded

tell me your arguments

why do u want to force me to change my opinion

22:16

u want to change my opinion based on what u believe

22:16

i want the same

tell me your arguments

big discussion incoming

@ᶰ°Konͧsti

so thats it

22:17

no arguments at all

sry that ping was accidently Learath xd

this is a community driven project, you can't be here without wanting to even bend over a bit for others

[1:11 AM] jao: if its so important then why havent u done it 7 years ago

this is a recurring one

[1:05 AM] jao: if its so important why dont u license old maps or remove them

this is another one

[12:51 AM] jao: if law was so easy there wouldnt be need for lawyers

this is the last one I remember

I'd go get popcorn, but it's tiring to even read all that so ima just go play something until the senseless discussion of not adding licenses is hopefully over...

why not bend for me

22:18

when did u ever bend for someone

i bended for ddnet lot of times

22:18

specially coding

i remember last time when u talked shit about lady saavik when she didnt like a thing in ur feature

honestly this disgusts me that 1 person can do this

where did u bend then

i bended by adding options

u make it personal because i dont agree

because U AIN'T BENDING, when other members of your admin team wants same thing and you're the one that doesn't agree with them. You do have your point, ok, but in this case and bending it should be done towards majority >.>

@jao didn't he completely abandon it because you and saavik didn't like it?

to make it like how she wanted

i think that the decision is headed to jao cuz hes a responsible admin and also responsible for the complete map testing xd

dont give me bullshit

and he added like 5 options before giving up

yeah

22:19

1 feature

22:19

was completly abandoned

22:20

showing weapons when frozen

good feature

such a crazy feature

22:20

xD

22:20

@ᶰ°Konͧsti jao gatekeeped it

wtf why was it not added

so his bending is insulting others and then abonding it

see

also he bended af to also include suggestions by me, even though he thought these were totally useless ones (and later community decided even further ones)

i knew it was a good feature

wtf why was it not added

@plsplsplslol

so that's not going to get added @Ryozuki ?

...but i'm out, gn & have fun

@Ravie jao and saavik were crazy about it not being added

actually just know the weapon numbers ez

well I had my own idea for it but I can respect that the person actually making it wants it a different way

https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/2307

add client capabilites and show weapon on freeze by edg-l · Pull Re...

cl_show_ninja 1 cl_ninja_particles 1 cl_show_ninja 0 cl_ninja_particles 1 cl_show_ninja 0 cl_ninja_particles 0 cl_show_ninja 1 cl_ninja_particles 0 With the feature disabled (cl_show_weapon_fre...

22:21

here is how it looked

22:22

look the amount of options

disabling ninja particles would actually be sick

22:22

and hiding the sword

HMM

back to map licensing

22:23

we should do it

show ninja skin and real weapon

@Learath2 map releases are handled with django?

22:23

we can just force it there

you can disable ninja particles thru image editing but it makes some maps unplayable

nouis

8

nouis

8

nouis

8

nouis

7

extremenouis

7

penouis

7

duh

7

duh

7

poois

7

siuol

7

poundis

7

doumbis

6

banouis

6

and announce it

@Ryozuki it's trivial to implement it

22:23

not going forward with it before we all reach an agreement though

so he will gatekeep this forever with his only argument being "if its so important why..."

22:23

im done

22:24

i go watch anime

banhammer

1

have fun

Neither will anyone else, no one wants to be the one that kills ddnet

lmfao these huge trolls reacting on a nouis message

rip ddnet

Im not a troll

Hey maybe deen will make an executive decision to nuke ddnet

u reacted too

U

@Learath2 he did that

22:24

idk if u were here

I was, more lurking back then though

wait deen is the head honcho right

banouis

6

nouis

5

nouis

5

nouis

5

penouis

5

nouis

5

extremenouis

5

duh

5

duh

5

rect1840

5

poundis

5

deen is the best thing ever happened to tw

ye without deen we would have nothing at all

@ᶰ°Konͧsti plsnomorereactionspam

2

1

1

1

1

wat

@Learath2 u can disable external emojis

22:25

@Learath2 no more trolls

it's making my script have a seizure

Im only reacting one single time

i think ddnet should become a public company

nouis

6

Its plsplsplstroll

no u

what script

nobyisthebiggesttroll

5

ddracenetwork is not trademarked, someone could steal the name ez

@noby some statistics thing I'm trying out

is it open src

onby is ur gores Assistent tool os?

troll

4

@Ryozuki File trademark in Catalonia

flag_spain

3

no

can u make?

@noby nope, it's just an experiment

what does it do

Training a neural network to act like the average ddnet discord member

hahaha

so why is reaction spam bad troll

troll

It always wants to say justatest

justatest

for some reason though

justatest

5

because :justatest:

I think I have a bug somewhere

when ur finished u should make it into an account and nobody will notice

nouis

3

maybe the account name is louis and its been an ongoing experiment

justatest

justatest

nouis

3

22:30

no its probably cellegen

lol

1

nouis

3

hey @Ravie, while you're here btw

can u give license?

22:31

troll

quite a few skins in the ddnet client are from you

22:31

(15)

@heinrich5991 how many by Whis?

30

lmao

@ᶰ°Konͧsti ur license

license_konsti.txt

38 bytes

Is he r1?

yes

22:32

check out https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/2518 @ᶰ°Konͧsti

Clarify licensing of existing skins · Issue #2518 · ddnet/ddnet

https://heinrich5991.de/teeworlds/ddnet/2020-08-18-skins.csv Generated by cat skins.csv | xsv select author | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn. 30 Whis 17 Teeworlds: zlib (https://github.com/teeworlds/tee...

22:33

@Ravie did you already make your mind up whether and how you'd license your skins?

I ask Whis for license but hes gone sleep 1h ago

thanks @ᶰ°Konͧsti

those old cat skins are terrible but I think saying to remove them would be selfish, I don't really care what happens with them

aoe skins were famous back then, but nowadays i dont see ppl with them

Sleep is for the weaks

isn't it like afternoon where you live

indeed

22:35

18:35

22:36

but im awake at 2am too justatest

justatest

they removed aoe Skins from ddnet

22:36

Right?

Image attachment

22:38

wtf is with these names

nouis

3

@louis aoe made personal skins

22:38

00 is a dirty trick

22:38

to list them first

22:38

on he client

22:38

the*

its so bloat

nouis

3

22:40

should change name or remove

nouis

3

those aren't in the client

can we add bot skin by @eNJi to default skins?

yea but having it in database is stupid

nouis

3

like you

whos gonna use a skin with someone elses name on it

nouis

4

22:41

u

nouis

4

uis

1

nouis new player, doesnt know bandana times

22:41

feelsbadman

banana times

aMu legend

konsti legend

konstitroll

3

@eNJi gib skin license so @heinrich5991 add it to default DDNet client feelsamazingman

feelsamazingman

my body belongs to him

https://forum.ddnet.tw/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6772

22:44

yeeeamazing

what if the

emoji is copyrighted

poggers

2

justatest

2

monkaS

2

invert colours monkaS

monkaS

what if Ravie is right MonkaS

MonkaS

what about gB times?

What about donating for the bestest mom in the world

True

they're open source :0

did she get problems during corona? I mean could u still pay it

22:48

@Pepe

theres no copyright on that skin i didnt even put my name in the corner, so its by anonymous kek

kek

https://twemoji.twitter.com/

Twitter’s open source emoji has you covered for all your project's emoji needs. With support for the latest Unicode emoji specification, featuring 2,685 emojis, and all for free.

22:50

you just need to put a mention

so Syltoox png is os?

yes

poggers

22:50

as long as he adds credit

also it was made in cracked photoshop justatest

justatest

(edited)

nobody needs to know that

22:52

delete msg

no u

Its best skin

Corona wasnt a big deal to her, she still has her therapies and so

22:53

it made harder for me to work tho

22:53

and get money

22:53

thats why i requested again

Hope she being alive till 120years

thanks

heartw

22:57

i hope that as soon as i get out of this situation, ill try to give back that money tho

hearts

hd_konsti1

GWaobloChildPepeCry

22:57

no

22:57

I donated for her life i dont want it back

justatest

youll never find out that i did

HR_MonkaFast

now kiss

‍❤️‍

‍

@Ravie it'd be cool if you could license your skins under either CC-BY-SA, CC-BY or CC0 BY means that others have to credit you when they share the skin. SA (share alike) means that if someone else modifies the skin, they also have to give permission to share etc.

don't really care about getting credit for them

23:08

(in fact I'd rather nobody knows I made them xD)

CC0 is without mandatory credit

@heinrich5991 how far is the rls on steam?

23:09

Do you know that?

yeah that's fine, how do I make it official?

can u even rls on steam?

23:12

didnt they change something

@Trafalgar Law release is currently uncertain

@heinrich5991 @deen wants to give license

@Ravie either write here or on github that you release your skins as CC0. note that you also have the x_spec skin, but CC0 would be fine for that as well (but you can also do something else there if you want)

use them if you want, you have all my permissions for it (CC-BY) @heinrich5991

feelsamazingman

3

cool, thank you @deen

3

Why are we doing the licensing thing? I really don't care what people do with my stuff on the internet as long as they are not being dicks. People know I don't mind and I won't sue them. I always took teeworlds stuff be it code or assets and used/modified it. I knew the creator wouldn't mind, often they were long gone and I wouldn't be able to ask them anyways. If we're putting of a few maps under non-restrictive licenses we are indirectly acknowleding that all other maps are copyrighted.

all of my skins currently included in ddnet client (kitties and x_spec) are licensed under CC0

@timakro maps fall under copyright whether we acknowledge it or not. we're probably not going to go over all past maps and check with their authors, and rather the lack of takedown requests as permission to host them. we were made aware of some of the copyright problems by trying to publish on steam, so we're working to get everything we ship with the client properly licensed and perhaps also future maps

Only a few maps like Kobra are shipped with the client

yes, two

23:34

Kobra 3 and Goo!

23:34

https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/2519 is only about mappers who contacted us about map licenses

Clarify licensing of existing maps · Issue #2519 · ddnet/ddnet

Incomplete list, only if the author contacts us for now. Konsti: CC-BY (via Discord) Generic Fly GetSpeed GetSpeed2 GetSpeed 3 Not Adrenaline 6 Intercepter Shockwave Soreu SorGores 1: CC-BY (via Gi...

CC-BY matches my "don't be a dick" philosophy, so hereby my maps are under CC-BY (can't speak for my co-mappers). But I don't believe bringing up licensing is a good idea for the teeworlds community. I understand that it's necessary for steam, but for everything not concerning the steam release if it was for me I would just not touch on the subject. (edited)

23:41

@heinrich5991 <-

ah, thanks

Im not the only mapper of Not Adrenaline 6

23:43

Silex is the main mapper and me and and stormphoenix are comapper

oops, didn't read properly

23:43

thanks for the note

@timakro why is not a good idea?

oh come one @Ryozuki

23:49

we had this discussion five times already ^^

i seriously still dont know why

do you really want to start another one ^^

i want to know

But I don't believe bringing up licensing is a good idea for the teeworlds community.

23:49

I think that summarizes it

23:50

because people will think about licenses and that can lead to outcomes timakro doesn't like

Yeah I might have stated my opinion on that before, I don't remember :D

not sure, but we had a discussion similar to this like 5 times in the last weeks ^^

23:52

not with you though

i still havent seen a proepr argument tho

Exported 756 message(s)