DDraceNetwork - developer

u know how hook works when your mate is in solo but has super on? had that in normal play somehow. Could fix it with showothers. did u change anything?

@trml I don't really know how most of the prediction and antiping code works at all, but shouldn't it work perfectly with a dummy?

Just info: Sooth was just skipped by ScReeNy & Jesus Christ, to finish in 7 & 9 sec. They kinda explain how they did it in chat right now - 95.172.92.151:8324 (call me a snitch, but I always preferred true ranks that create competition) (edited)

@Soreu Thanks for info. It looks like they just used checkpoints and the map has ways to circumvent the checkpoints and go back to start. So they touched the last checkpoint in map, went back to start to reset their time (only works in team 0, one of the reasons we have team ranks), and finally teleport immediately to finish. This can be fixed in the map with having unskippable checkpoint resets, at least one right around the start line. This could also be fixed in code by resetting checkpoint when touching start line, but there might be some map that uses checkpoints even before start line? (probably not)

06:43

Money quote btw:

Cendren: this funny af haha I would love to see jao's reaction Jesus Christ: i just hope he wont delete

def-

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #1962 Introduce sv_reset_tele_checkpoint

to prevent skipping map with tele checkpoints in team 0. Would have to check how often this was used in actual finishes and those might have to be deleted.

Or just don't fix it it's very fun. Competitive Players dont care about team0 ranks anyways. It also takes a lot of planning and preparation for each map to execute skips like that. Overall it took us like 6h. Its not abusing any bug etc its just smart gameplay. (edited)

@deen we can probably go through the teehistorian files to see if anyone used tele cp to a cp > 0 after hitting the start tile

09:23

@ScReeNy it's an unbeatable rank at the top of the leaderboard

Didnt the team said we dont have to abandon each new mechanic we find? Also this has been done earlier on solo maps like nullptr solo together with starttile hitbox bug and probably on more maps but not to this extend. And its only unbeatable until there comes somebody with a new idea or better execution, thats how speedrunning works. We even asked for the rules of when a rank gets deleted before spending our time on there. And after that explanation our rank is legit.

Sure, weird mechanics are fine. But basically skipping the entire map is not.

So until which checkpoint can i go? can i skip 50% 75% 90%?

depends on every map. this is clearly too much

You just make people wait at finish to make it look legit, better be aware of what players do to your maps. Each month we do some iq skips but mods change the map while we play and reload or now change the game this game is just depressing

09:42

i know how i use my other bugs

You could also report it as a bug, then you don't have to worry about your rank being deleted later on when someone else discovers it.

Every speedrun leaderboard has rules

that isnt a bug for me

09:42

you are changing the rules constantly

09:42

how u like

Yes, every complex system needs to be able to adapt rules, since the rules at the start will have edge cases and holes

You and konsti literally make my blood boil, so I'll just stay out of it and cook some breakfast instead

1

@Learath2 enjoy

09:44

I can understand your frustration tbh, since I did the same things back on DDmaX, abusing bugs to get top ranks

3

Besides, we've always been deleting ranks in a very consistent manner, we delete them if the rank is no longer possible/significantly easier after a bug fix or a map change and we delete them if they are botted. I wonder who you asked the rules

jao himself

We should write these down and make sure staff only ever copy and paste it, with people going around trying to find loopholes

09:55

What did jao say the rule is?

Jesus Christ28.10.2019
@jao what is official statement about fixing and deleting cheated ranks? u always fix startline skips, and u dont fix oldschool maps right
what about brutals and others not startline skips, u fix like, over 90% skip or something?
is therre any rule? or is is situational and depends on a map
 
jao28.10.2019
im fixing cheats only on new maps
 
Jesus Christ28.10.2019
soo +1year is considered as an old map already?
 
jao28.10.2019
yea
 
Jesus Christ28.10.2019
cool

bors[bot]

[ddnet:master] 2 new commits

975a0bc Add help text for negative parameter for worst players - def- 501f106 Merge #1961 - bors[bot]

11:33

bors[bot]

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request closed: #1961 Add help text for negative parameter for worst players

You could consider this as fixing bugs instead of fixing the map

11:52

So since the rank became unbeatable this should also be deleted ofcourse

U can beat it, just think about it like solo map where even split seconds matter

I still dont believe you should call it a Bug, thats just how maps ever worked and were intended to work. It was just unpopular, because team 0 ranks dont matter competitive. Things like placing a tee in the whole map and dragging one tee through was always a way to have a better time in t0. Also its not like the Team ever cared if they create unbeatable ranks.

this should be fixed in the map

12:16

not with a setting

12:18

also this is more like a startline skip than a cheat

12:20

(ie you didnt play any part of the map for the rank as far as i understood) (edited)

does ranked even matter besides getting a ranked status?

well we finished the map a few times to get those ranks, so thats not quite true

im talking about the run with that you did the 0s finish

12:22

other runs obviously dont count towards that

nerf all 0s finishes

else you could justify startline skips as well

well the 2 tees did play all parts. And what counts is honor cellegen

no that logic doesnt work

honor or even care for doing that

12:24

i mean for prizes touraments would be intended to require a status and above

12:24

and if somebody donates to that, it would be a good idea to make it a reality

12:25

i mean tomorrow i'll go for my first job interview and if anything good happens, i can spare money to donate here

2

But i agree to the Point that this is more of a map fix. Since i dont think its a bug of game. One funny thing, while figuring the way out i started to belive to mapper planned on that everything was just too close fitting.

dude cellegen what are you talking xd

about making a competitive tourament with money prizes

12:33

:v

12:34

so ranked status has at least a meaning to it,

I think ranked especially teamrank has a meaning for a lot.

@jao would fixing it without a setting be possible?

12:47

(would e.g. make maps easier to test)

i dont think the current behavior should be changed

to fix it without a setting, all what would have to be done is simply putting CP2 on startline

12:59

in case of that specific map ofc

yea please do that great idea

how to include teeworlds sensitivite mouse to league of legends

3

before startline

lol u smart

lol

btw 4 tees per ip limit will stay forever?

i guess thats likley. Two people with one ip and dummys is kinda good limit imo. Or do you want less?

i wanna more

u could block whole servers easily then

13:20

if that would be removed

Having the startline be cp0 might be a nice idea, why not @jao?

imo its unnecessary to change this everywhere if only specific maps need it, and then it will probably also have unwanted side effects on other maps

13:25

so you’ll end up special casing maps or remapping them

would make many unbeatable ranks

(if you even notice that they need to be fixed)

always when u wanna fix some physics there is justice 2 screaming it would break the map

I love how it's always "would make many unbeatable ranks" but your unbeatable rank is okay

Fix it however you prefer @jao, I just don't really like adding more and more unique behaviour to the game to fix a couple maps

its not unbeatable

not beatable by regular means

maybe u should look up that word again

@Learath2 dont need any unique behavior to fix this

@ScReeNy no need to be salty, you cheated, you even knew what you did was "grey" at best, gratz on the run

13:31

It won't stay in the leaderboard under the current rules

yea i knew its grey thats why i asked before and am still betrayed of my rank. Thanks for calling it cheat and not bug. (edited)

if you wanted to be 100% sure you should have explained what you wanted to do

See you still have this attitude, hunting for nuances in my wording, you lot asked us 50 times about deleted ranks until you got the slight wording mistake you needed and went with it

i thought u meant that as a changing of your position by choosing to say cheat

Again, very impressive run, not touching the cp tiles doesn't look that easy on this map. It's not staying

13:34

I think it's both a mapper oversight and a bug. Mappers should be careful with their checkpoints

13:34

But crossing the start line, very obviously should reset your progress

why?

13:34

weapons dont reset either

I mean progress in the map, as in how far you are

i think its impossible to balance team0 ranks

As long as you are playing the map and your rank represents the time you spend on the map, I have no issue with how you get it

then dont delete my rank but change my time to 6h

You were completely free to just finish it with your actual rank of 6 hours

13:37

I didn't make you go all the way back to the startline

do you guys know if the player limit/ip was ever lower than 4?

13:38

cause i remember in like 2015 i couldn't play with my brother

Maybe we should have another leaderboard where we archive these ranks? any% runs are indeed interesting

13:39

Well not this kind as it's just a really long run that appears to be short. But with other runs like the old hc2 hammerfly around the map, it's decently fun to watch

that were easy times

we should have a leaderboard for people that help fix bugs instead of waisting our time

when i report bugs i get ignored and they get abused

what bug did you report that got ignored

nulltr.sg for example

what’s the bug there

you can skip first 2 parts by abusing cps and start tile hitbox

ah well too late to fix that now

There are maps where you get back to the startline with different cps

15:37

Also solo maps

15:38

unnecessary and might break something

F3

did u change any rocket physics recently?

There was that fix for binary, but that only applies to maps that need it

@Jesus Christ why?

@Learath2 yes, it should be able to do that. I actually had some code for that, but forgot about it for a while (and planned to fix some small things)

22:20

the only thing missing is to apply the input from the dummy