DDraceNetwork - general

i wish teeworlds solo maps were more like mario maker maps

01:39

where you have to find out what to do instead of just do a bunch of well-timed jumps and crap

01:39

i mean a lot of mario maker maps are like that

01:39

what i'm saying is i wish teeworlds maps were less faily and long n boring and more 500 iq plays

01:40

so like instead of the stronghold maps

01:40

where its obvious what you do, just very faily

01:40

make them more difficult to find out but less faily so you actually have fun while playing

puzzle box

01:41

rocketiskey

ok

01:50

that's 2 maps

01:50

out of like

01:50

a lot

why does teeworlds frame drop whenever a discord overlay pops up

well those 2 maps are hard

how do i use tune layers

03:19

how do i make it slow motion wtf

03:25

can someone give me the command and things i needa do to make 1/4 speed or 1/8

Ask some pro at map making

03:26

Maybe @Im 'corneum

03:26

He is good

WHO HAS THE LIST OF ALL THE DUMMY COMPATIBLE MAPS

@louis you have to name this file like your map and have it in the same folder. the cfg is by kintaro tho

slow.cfg

803 bytes

thank u corneum ily

ask tester and community, when you try to share maps which you need to use your brain. All cry and told you that's gay @louis (edited)

@louis imo mario, teeworlds.. are games of speed, being slowed down to think about stuff is less fun and not the point of it

@Learath2 sup?

@deen figured it out

I should wait longer before replying more often, then problems might resolve themselves

thats how i deal with my life problems

my parents are still divorced because of me, why is it not working

Do we consider Just deep fly a 2p brutal now ?

@ƒirewave english please lol

13:49

oh nvm i get what you're saying

15:58

what are selected maps

good ones

@here why deep fly not working anymore

1

2

nerfed

that kinda destroys 1000 ranks no?

what maps (aside from dummy) need deepfly?

all maps that had deepfly before need it again

16:17

or unbeatable r1s

ye lol

16:17

thats obvious

could u list them here

yea ill do ur job

16:17

and search in +2k maps

if we now fix easy map, isnt the reason for the update in the first way gone anyway? go remove

fix easy map?

each*

we wont remove deepfly from all maps

16:42

and the change has other improvements as well

why you removed it tho? the other implementations are mostly seen negative as far as i know

well they remove inconsistencies

16:45

so they are positive objectively

what u mean with that, they fixing something right now? Well you shouldnt change gameplay if there is no reason to.

well there is a reason?

16:54

and it doesnt allow anything that wasnt possible before

it doesnt allow anything that wasnt possible before was the reason i accepted, but with disableing deepfly its now cause more problems than it fixes

on what maps does it cause a problem?

what about justdeepfly? id deepfly now entirely impossible?

well on all maps where deepfly is disabled now but possible before

should work on just deepfly

yea that one is fixed

@ScReeNy why?

unbeatable r1s

so on what maps did someone use deepfly for r1

i doubt that the dummyranks from today will stay

talking about non dummy maps obviously

possibly on any

why do you think so?

16:58

previously you needed to save/reload for that

No

16:58

you could do it

16:58

it was either jsut rly hard

but no one did

Or the mechanic not kn own

16:58

u just needed to hit one deephammer

16:58

for unbeatable r1

ive never seen anyone do deepfly with a real person in an actual run

i always try

did u get a r1 with that

idk

16:59

it might just speed up for 0.5s

i have 3 maps on my list that need deepfly right now

17:00

Heartcore
Handifly
Just Triple Fly

(edited)

what about yo'ci played with dummy

heatcore

17:00

i have countless in my mind

17:00

but idk all names

ah right yo ci too

17:00

can u say the ones u remember

this is way more effort

17:01

than enabling it

can you just give a few examples

justice 2

17:01

last part

heatcore as i said

17:02

basicly any hard map with deep

17:02

cause it was easier to finish before

tatooine

not looking after time

deep part near finish

that should count for easy too tbh

17:02

as noob i swapped in novice for deepfly

lol

cause i could rf

17:02

couldnt

because novices have rocketfly parts

idk could be

17:03

idk all maps

basically every hard map with deepfly

17:04

u just got a few examples

Caldera 2

17:07

Rema

17:07

every map beenfits from deepfly..

17:08

idk about you but with my mate i can hit 3-4 deepfly hits quite good

just every map that isnt dummy but has deepfreeze in it? you can easyly check all of them on ddnet.tw

or just all

tbh i see the problem only in hard ones, where u used to skip deep with save load and dummy

i was talking about maps that used deepfly for top runs

Caldera 2 Rema

17:13

Unbalanced needs fix cause dummy need rocket

need rocket?

tee shoots as deep with rocket on there (edited)

fixed in latest version

@jao a lot of caventure and samsara got r1 deepflyed

1

im talking about non dummy maps

this solution is so horrible

seems like banhammer has a whole new meaning now

Just deep fly is no longer a dummy Map ?

opinion: dummy is even MORE pointless now (edited)

some other dummy maps require the dummy to do stuff as well

but wasnt dummy the only way to deepfly

This is so bullshit jaop

17:28

you have no iudea

17:28

what u do

how is it bullshit

even enabling deepfly again

17:28

destroys the deeps

17:28

u have0 knowledge of game

17:28

literally

xd

lol

fuck off

its true

repentance needs

17:29

Deepfly

then tell me what’s wrong about what i said

im talking about the whole stuff

do u realize that im not responsible for the whole stuff

who is xd

why are u personally attacking jao while being a smartass about some shitty mechanics

then u all idiots

17:30

i always was fan of jao

show me a demo of u hitting 4 "deepfly hits" with ur mate (edited)

17:30

before the change

heinrichs pr

17:31

not mine

deen said he could do it with mw

heinrich doesnt even play ddnet, why he deciding such important stuff

Its possible with mousewheel

ye it is

17:31

but it wasnt known

17:31

nor used

tf

Pointless discussion, logs of changes and consequences should be printed somewhere on discord

mousewheel

and u needed to control the IDs

Yes but we are past that point snail

you are trying to fix justdeepfly and are destroying it by it again

17:31

such stupidity

no we arent @Ruh

17:31

he said he made ranks with it

Now you need to find a damage controll solution

how is justdeepfly destroyed

17:32

it’s not easier or harder now

and he said he could do it consistently enough to hit it 4 times with his mate even tho that thing was known by literally less than 10 players

if 2p works its easier

so im just curious to see that

2p is better wtf

snail but we cant revert it

u can save so much time

Even if the update is reverted everybody knows the trick now

what’s easier now

So its pointless

@Ruh its not about reverting it lol

17:32

its about preventing deepfly

1

17:32

because it breaks most deepfreeze part

"ye it is but it wasnt known nor used"

17:33

Why even say that then

17:33

Guess I saw it out of context

im not answering u anymore if u dont read properly what im saying

17:33

yeah

cba to read 300 messages

The fact that deepfly got disabled is not related to the new hammer system ?

heinrich made a mess and now snail and jao have to clean it up for him xdd

Eh some maps were commonly cheated with deepfly

17:34

But its a select few

17:34

This fix seems the best there is to me

i disabled it so we can decide what to do before its too late

and only with dummy

Thanks for using brain @jao

the main point is that nobody was aware of this mechanic and nobody was deepflying with something else than a dummy

you didnt even said that earlier

17:35

just tell me for list

17:35

ffs

Yeah unlucky move to make the community aware of it so I guess this solution is best for now

@ScReeNy Yeah not even saying why xd

well tbh the non-dummy deepfly should have been disabled prior to the change

That's why would be cool to have some logs with the reasons

17:36

And consequences

what?

what would be the difference if the community was casually using it before it got automated

Of thé the changes

how did that change anything about your reasoning

Because it's a good reason ?

idk what youre talking about now xd

Maybe so not every second person starts a whole argument over it here @jao

17:37

He wants a blog post style thing where you basically list all the reasons mentioned here in a pdf so not everybody talks shit here

Yes that's just common sense lol

#announcements

heinrich literally wrote a blog post about it

if they explained the update from yesterday in the update it wouldnt be such a deal too

which was posted here as well

Maybe you should link it

17:38

Mark it

17:38

Pin it

17:38

whatever

https://heinrich5991.github.io/blog/blog/one-tick-unfreeze

The Anatomy of a One Tick Unfreeze

I saw the deepfly bind the other day:

But that was the reasoning for the first patch

17:39

not the anti deepfly one

17:40

Also nobody who doesn't read #dev reads that blog

isnt the changelog in the client enought

1

17:41

is it too late or what

Changelog usually doesn't explain the thoughts behind them

17:42

And this one was very controversial I guess

17:42

so I understand @ScReeNy

i dont think the devs can know what will be controversal before actually changing it. do you remember when everyone lost their shit about emojis for the meme? who could have known that before and would write an essay about why he added it

17:43

i liked the emojis btw

Hmm, I am pretty sure they knew it was controversial though

17:44

It was pretty obvious

17:44

When I read the patch notes it merely took 5 seconds for me to figure out how to abuse this

17:44

And I am only 1 player

as someone said earlier, the devs arent really connected to the community

Too bad that thats normal for games I guess

17:44

Why can't we have patch testers if we already have map testers

1

Nah that's so wrong tho

17:45

Saw Heinrich and learath play a lot of times

17:45

They should know consequences

17:45

At least the most basic ones

Well they aren't the most experienced players though

17:45

You have to give them that

So they choose to still apply those changes

17:45

It's not ignorance, was a choice

They were aware its written in the post

This blog tells us why now

i think this changes really goes in depth. it wasnt obvious at all to think about dummy maps after that change.

And even if I'm for those changes to remain

17:46

Having public explanations is really important

Im asking again

17:46

Can we have something like patch testers?

you can do that already?

17:47

github is public

Stop playing blind

github is weird, i dont like it at all.

As if the whole community was going to search for that

17:47

They're just playing a game they like

search for what

Actually

Whatever idk how u can't understand what I'm saying

I m lost in space trying to use it

lol

17:48

because "that" is so self explanatory

Seems very confusing to me

So what are the chances deepfly is kept disabled and on what are you making this decision.

are github release before live ones ?

y

i wont lie for me this change had to be tested

17:53

i think i even mentioned it in here

17:54

but now it doesnt matter anymore its more important to decide the state of deepfly between 2 actual players

17:54

but ye in the future big changes should rly not be done without any public testing

Every mistake is an opportunity to learn x)

i guess lol

i think from now on deepfly just has to be considered in testing on 2player maps too

Yeah there were only very few maps commonly cheated with deepfly anyway

17:57

Like heartcore

is there any annoucement to see what changes?

https://heinrich5991.github.io/blog/blog/one-tick-unfreeze

The Anatomy of a One Tick Unfreeze

I saw the deepfly bind the other day:

@Ruh yes but as jao implied these maps are almost only very hard maps

17:58

so adding exceptions for a few insane maps sounds ok

17:58

pros will be aware of it anyway

Very true, since speedrunning doesnt matter you save and swap for deepfly

cant u just make it that u cant deepfly with actual 2 players, but u can with ur dummy?

wtf

so heartcore will stay the same

u instant hammer when you just hold hammer in freeze?

Yeah enable it on Just deepfly for the fun of it

that would give dummy an advantage

i think changes that make a race harder are a no go in speedrunning

it used to be this way

yeah but thats also why this fix has been made

server doesnt know whether a tee is your dummy or not

@<BµmM> ye

doesnt it make like 1k maps cheatable when you can instant hammerß

17:59

in freeze

17:59

lol

xd

you can make like super long chains

here we go again

its this a troll or a perfect example

lol

Thats why we need the blog post

18:00

xD

now he says he has an idea

@<BµmM> we talked about this and all cheats the past 2 days in like 1k + messages

18:00

Please stop

ah

18:00

xd

Best changes actually, i'm eager to see every new possible things that'll come along

pls dont change physics like this

2late bro

5years the game was super hard

So basically the only thing that remains from the patch are quality of life changes that make hammerhit maps a little easier if I am summing it up correctly

now its getting easier with every new version

wreong

@<BµmM> thats complete bs

also new skips

Ok pls stop arguing

list me the mechanics changes we've had the past years that made the game easier

again @<BµmM> it was possible before but rarely used. you could bind fire to the mousewheel and get alkot of inputs. they made it automated

there are so few

play with normal tw client 2 days and you will feel bad af lol

its obvious people getting better over time

@snail So basically the only thing that remains from the patch are quality of life changes that make hammerhit maps a little easier if I am summing it up correctly?

5 years ago i was already playing with ddrace client that had zoom and entities

18:02

and its all u need rly

i talk about "features" like deepfly or hook coll and stuff like that

@Im 'corneum then why dont make hookfly with dummy automatic? u can do it with binds as well

most ppl dont use hook coll

18:03

its literally irrelevant

Hook coll is great

on how people are getting better

a lot people use hook coll on edges (edited)

hook col ❤

people did even before hook coll

18:03

that just removes the random part of it

18:03

aka waiting 10 minutes

18:03

for the guy to hit the right angle

@Jesus Christ thats not the same and you know it

see all changes made it easier, which is okay for speedrunning. But making it harder is nonononono

almost the same

hookfly with dummy is the hardest shjit. why did you choose this trick to make a point

18:05

exaggerating is good thing to make a point

@Ruh holding hammer to instantly hit when getting hammered is pretty huge

18:06

its not just about hammerhit

The only thing that annoys me slightly is that getting 2 djs is insanely ez now

it was ez even before

I disagree

18:06

Not for mediocre players

once u had the timing u could make it 90% times

"Once you had the timing" - thats exactly what has been removed

18:07

Nothing to learn anymore

idk who but someone said you could have a bigger timeframe to use a gun in freeze. i think if you carefully implement that without actually being frozen then it could become a cool new trick with the same possibilities as now

the worst thing about it is easier chain and easier saving when u didnt have dj and was balancing on a freezed tee

18:08

now its ultra ez save, it was impossible back then

Chain is irrelevant

is that a bad thing tho

idk

The second part is SOMEWHAT true

and dont forget it got harder to make r1s and finish deep maps

maybe not

Very very rarely gonna be used

xd

18:08

im just not fan of making games easier

ye me neither

Why is it harder now ?

18:08

Same I absolutly hate it

but objectively i wouldnt say its a bad thing

But its so insignificant

cause no deepfly

On ascale

18:09

But u wouldnt deepfly almost all maps anyway?

anything in speedrunning is significant

What map would you deepfly with a fucking dummy to speedrun ?

and for finishing it is as well

18:09

doesnt have to be a dummy

?

18:10

But thats exactly what wasn't possible before

18:10

So it remains the same

it was it doesnt hat to be deepfly

18:10

just to speedfup

Now I don't even get what u are saying anymore

18:10

but doing that with another PLAYER?

18:10

On what map would you do that for a SPEEDRUN

i would always try it

18:11

why not try to get deep hit?

Why try?

cause it can speed up run

With odds that are astonishingly low

18:11

And give you on a hit +0.15 seconds

the first hit

18:12

is not that unoddish

18:12

and well

18:12

thats my points

18:12

it got harder

You know hammer while FROZEN is still possible yes?

18:12

Just not DEEP frozen

im talking bout deep

then I still cant imagine a situation where you'd use it in

18:12

And I probably finished like 80% of ddnet maps

okay i show a map

Trying to go for the hammers

18:14

Usually wastes more time

18:14

And since the odds are that low

didnt u read what i said

Nobody in speedrunning would use it

depends tbh

didnt u read what i said

?

@Ruh even tho u could be right on that specific scenario, sometimes u take the gamble to save few seconds and get r1

What are you refering to

18:15

Okay but its so unlikely

i looked 2min for that map, if its at start of map i always go for it

So unusuaö

18:15

l*

18:15

Yes

18:15

And its a hammer

@Ruh u know u will have to reset most of the time, but that one time u get it its an insane time

That if you do it

18:15

You lose time

18:15

And 99.9% you aren't gonna win anything

wtf

18:15

first hit deepfy 2pü

18:16

is not as hard as u think

Snail on what map do you get insane time

when the rank 1 is rly coimpetitive it can happen to be worth it

With deepfly

18:16

I cant think of a map

as i said in that specific scenario ur probably right

18:16

i mean in general

18:16

the logic of "its a gamble so ppl wont do it in speedruns" sounds wrong

The logic that already 2 hits have a chance of 0.01 % too

18:16

So only 1 hit

wtfff

Is unlikely

18:16

and wastes time

thats wrong af

So you'd only gamble at the end of a map

18:17

When you'd know you cant r1 othewise

or at the start

Im fine with that

18:17

Its never gonna happen

because restarting doesnt matter

True

with jc i just tested first hit for 20%

18:17

and using dj on it

18:17

saved MUCH

18:17

pluis

18:17

there is still the point making just finishing harder (edited)

ok how much time do you spend on a failed attempt ?

18:35

Like 1 second ?

18:35

How much do you win for a successful hit ?

18:36

2 - 3 seconds?

well in the map i showed you u barely loose any

18:36

and if its at a start u can go for perfect

And as I said speedrunning on 99.9% maps isn't even close for 1 second to be relevant

18:41

So you basically agree its almost never useful

what

18:41

that all doesnt even matter

18:41

imagine u have perfect run and have rank1 anyway

18:41

why not go for super perfect

Ok how many maps have a perfect run ?

doesnt matter

18:41

cause its harder now

??

18:41

Yeah

which is my point

Its equally hard for everybody

18:42

So it doesnt matter

18:42

Thanks

ofc it does

?????????????????????????????????

??????????????????

18:42

it was easier