DDraceNetwork - developer

Forgot my laptop in italy, so I guess no http masters this year :P

Wait what?

07:03

@ChillerDragon

I'll be in turkey for 1-2 months, with no laptop

Buy a new one

I will if my father is willing to pay the price of my stupidity

A new laptop isn't in my own budget :P

No need for a super laptop

@Learath2 use ur smartphone, ssh into ddnet and code there

07:06

lmao

07:06

Coding on a phone sounds horrible, never say such things again

i seen ppl do it

07:07

on reddit

Oh no, I cant ssh to my server on a new laptop

07:07

Fuk

well if u can get a big device better

I did it

07:07

But pretty hard xd

its easier if u have a portable keyboard

Especially on a such small screen

07:08

Yeah

Atleast I have coffee and food

muhondo

Oh nice

I was so planning to code the next 2 hours

But

i need to find something to code in ddnet

How did u forget ur laptot even? xd

@Ryozuki discord rich presence?

@Learath2 they dont ship linux libs and the sdk is closed source

@archimede67 i woke up late, so I rushed out the gate

Ahha xd

if i could have a reference linux app

What do you wanna do with discord rich presence ?

show ur race time, team and map

Oh yeah

If we partner with discord we could add "join game" button aswell

are you at a airport rn?

This would be pretty cool to have

But no discord gamesdk for linux

Sure?

@Im 'corneum I'm in another italian city

hmm

Its a 2 hour round trip

07:13

So if I go back for it I miss my flite

if you scream allahu akbar at the top of your lungs in a crowded area i pay u a new laptop

So not worth getting detained

07:14

I need to be studying anyway, better no laptop

Lmao

07:14

Are u ok @Im 'corneum ?

Stupid math analysis 2 is ridiculously hard

Analysis

how far would u go learath

In my school everyone hates math analysis

@Im 'corneum I wouldnt go far at all, my father is a softie

is he with u

@archimede67 only thing good about analysis is that they shorten it as MAnal

@Learath2 these are all windows lib right

@Im 'corneum no, but he is the one thats going to pay for a new laptop

07:17

@Ryozuki dylib is macOS

foken shit

Bundle is cocoa iirc also osx

07:18

.lib is windows

@Learath2

So stupid that they have libraries at all

07:19

They should have used a socket like everyone else

yeah

07:20

im sure the socket is used in the sdk

07:20

but its closed source

I guess I'll browse reddit for 2 hours

shit companies

@Ryozuki hmm could also be using shared memory under the hood

im not doing this if its windows only

07:20

stallman wouldnt be happy

:D

Old discord sdk did have linux support

07:22

Maybe they'll stop being dickheads and port the new sdk over aswell

old sdk was also open source

07:22

a sdk not being open source

07:22

is retarded

Well the whole platform is closed source

07:23

I really dont approve of discord, only reason i use it is peer pressure

m2

07:24

lets go to irc

See one thing irc is horrible at is mobile

07:24

No good irc clients on mobile

07:25

And I think it'd be pretty hard to code a battery efficient one

omg

07:25

nimda is not giving me voice

07:25

i cant chat on ddnet irc

07:26

@heinrich5991 i think nimda broke

07:26

@Learath2 i dont think so

def-

[ddnet-scripts:master] 1 new commit

361a5c9 Update ddnet-setup - Dennis Felsing

unless u use electron

Nimda has been broken for long

has ddnet updated to debian 10?

07:27

yes

Well the protocol requires you to reply to pings on irc @Ryozuki

except Brazil failed because the hoster is providing a broken image that fails to boot after upgrading to Debian 10

Not really background friendly

nice

@deen what was broken with the image btw?

and the hoster just told me that they will not fix it and we should switch to their most expensive "cloud" offering instead

uhh

doesn't boot anymore, I can't see anything, even on VNC

is there lot of ppl in brazil sv

They claim they see " relocation error: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libnss_files.so.2: symbol __libc_readline_unlocked, version GLIBC_PRIVATE not defined in file libc.so.6 with link time reference", but I'm not sure where

What a shitty service

well its brazil

07:29

xd

I'm not even sure what kind of a VPS this is, maybe something OpenVZ based

does anyone here have a rpi4

In South Africa I also couldn't reboot, opened a ticket and they literally fixed it in 2 min

@Ryozuki I'm thinking of getting one for a media center kinda thing

im also planning on getting one

07:30

u can choose 1 2 or 4 gb ram

I'll make the older rpi a magic mirror as soon as I learn how to wood

@Learath2 i just bought a brand new expensive tv and found out it only has 100 Mbit/s ethernet, so no luck streaming high quality content...

Wow what a letdown, is it an 2019 model?

100 mb in 2019

2018, but they still do the same in their 2019 model

Yeah not having a gigabit port in an 2019 model would be sad

07:32

Even in 2018 a non gigabit ethernet port was uncommon

So now I have to move my router/wifi access point through half the apartment because their wifi antenna is also shitty and that's the only way to get a stable connection

today my upload is slow troll

I'd return it to be honest with you

07:33

Oh actually @deen try a chromecast ultra

07:34

I'm very pleased with mine

@Learath2 do u even watch tv

wait

07:34

fast.com is powered by netflix? xd

yes

@Ryozuki I cast netflix, youtube, twitch and anime to tv :P

the trick is that fast.com uses the same servers as netflix so the isp can't throttle netflix without throttling the speed test

Also have spotify permanently on

@Learath2 u live alone righty

07:35

i wouldnt watch anime in my tv xd

it looks like its broken for me xd

07:35

it shows 240 Kbps

@Ryozuki I live alone ye

good internet

and isn't moving

One of the benefits of living alone is you no longer need to be concerned with what others think of what you are watching

whereas speedtest.net i have 100 Mbps for both upload and download

@Learath2 hi captain obvius

07:36

I mean took me a while to notice

@Learath2 well i dont have to pay my internet

07:36

nor the apartment

07:36

Well technically I dont pay either my parents do

Atleast as long as I'm studying

07:37

so u will study until 30

I could, but I'd feel bad

lmao

I dont think I'll bother with a masters degree tbh

07:38

I'm already getting bored of bachelors

Some companies require Masters though even you'll never use anything you learned there

@Learath2

@deen does it usually matter what kinda masters? Could go for a mba

07:42

@Ryozuki RIP

07:42

I found a dumbass asking around our exam question for algorithms and programming in ##C

07:43

We get to fix our code after the exam and submit the working version

We usually have requirements like "University degree (Bachelor or Master) in computer science, physics, mathematics, or comparable"

Horrible

I guess it depends on what you apply to though

I guess I'll have to do a masters

Nah

@Learath2 they don't send your laptop to turkey by package post?

I dont even know what I want to work as nowadays

07:46

@n000b it's in my house, locked, I dont really know how I could get it posted to me

07:46

@deen how did you decide?

Your house in Italy

how did I decide what?

I wanted to do gamedev but those people are overworked to death, web/app development is an easy job search but I think I'd get bored in a week

I just pretended we still have a Diplom, which was basically Bachelor + Master, so just kept going

07:48

@Learath2 so go for systems development?

What does a systems development person do? What kind of systems are we talking about? :P

@Learath2 look at this

@deen I meant as in how did you decide what to do after your degree

07:51

@Ryozuki l m a o, fukin windows

I did a cycling trip and camped close to Walldorf, which reminded me that SAP is headquartered there, so I decided to apply. 2 weeks later I had a job offer

Sounds about like what I heard from others

07:54

It seems that these things just happen on their own

and they convinced me that they're doing cool stuff. Modern C++, high performance code, working together closely with Intel etc to try out new hardware and optimize for it, generating code at runtime for the execution engine etc

07:54

lots of fun stuff to get lost in for a few years

07:55

not as boring as I imagined initially

That actually does sound fun, some kind of c++ jit?

and competent colleagues, I think about half of them have a PhD

I cant even imagine working through a phd

We have a C++-template based DSL that is embedded into the regular C++ code that we translate into our own LLVM-based language on the customer site

07:56

so that we can optimize their queries better

You were doing database stuff right?

yeah, it's the HANA db

I never thought about it, but do databases really require such high performance?

Well, our customers already buy dozens of TBs of RAM so they can hold their entire business data in memory, so I guess they want performance

lol

07:59

using ram as storage

07:59

we're an in-memory db, so yeah

Yeah ram is blazing fast

07:59

I dont think even the best ssds come close

ofc not

Intel has some NVM storage which sits inbetween RAM and SSDs in performance

i got a nvme ssd

that's something different

Yeah uses like 8 lanes of pcie

:o

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-volatile_memory

Non-volatile memory

Non-volatile memory (NVM) or non-volatile storage is a type of computer memory that can retrieve stored information even after having been power cycled. In contrast, volatile memory needs constant power in order to retain data. Examples of non-volatile memory include read-onl...

Talking about optane right?

ah i see

Yeah, I guess they renamed it to Optane.

wait so your are working at SAP @deen ? And its FUN c++ ?! le nice

I mean C++ is still crazy, but you can use it more reasonably, for example no explicit new/delete, no C strings etc

No explicit new? How else do you do allocations? Only smart pointers?

exactly

09:20

and RAII

Smart pointers are so cool, very low overhead

if the code contains new, you can forget the delete

09:21

but if you use RAII or a unique_ptr you can't

Never really used RAII with anything

And we use C++17, but have our custom STL implementation with extra features

You really do live on the bleeding edge :D

09:26

I'm barely caught up with C++14

we even have some experimental features implemented and usable that are planned for C++2a

Do you also write proposals for the c++ standards commitee?

Nope, unfortunately we don't have anyone there I think

09:29

I guess since we're not really bound to what the STL does anyway

I guess having your own stl is nice

09:30

Is it closed source?

yeah, and not really useful outside of our use case

@ChillerDragon e.g. the team masks

@fokkonaut said it was even easier to support vanilla than ddnet client and i dont thinnk we have to support all old ddnet versions we can tell them to update for betert expierence

It was ofc easier to support vanilla

how do those masks work? are they like these bit masks having one bit for every tee?

Vanilla has no features

09:54

Yeah they are bitmasks per tee and per team

09:54

Thats why there are max 64 teams

I see

I wonder how fokkonaut handled those, I'm guessing arrays but that would be a hit to performance

09:57

And a lot of ram usage

09:57

Maybe bitfields

do we even need more than 64 teams? I dont think so

Well one team per tee is what we need so every tee can have a team

fro what? for solo?

At the very least half max clients so people can dummy

im fine with 128 slots

09:59

and 64 teams

Still need larger bitfields anyway

for what cases?

10:00

can we use two masks?

There is also a mask per tee in teams

10:00

Each team has a mask that indicates which tees are in said team

isnt a long long 128 or something like that

Not guaranteed to be

maybe a lib?

wait, you're adding 128 players?

thinking about it

Why not 256?

10:02

:D

maybe 128 is easier xd

Maybe a lib? Dont need a lib c++ has bitfields

no for 128

Yeah might aswell go for 256 while at it

i remember sqlite had some own datatypes

gcc and clang provide __int128_t

Yeah but is that portable enough for our taste? Dont think we use compiler specifics anywhere

If we're just using them as a bitfield don't really need it

10:03

can just use an array of uint64_ts

Yeah but makes the indexing weird

10:04

Accessing it directly is undefined behaviour as you arent allowed to shift > CHAR_BIT * sizeof(type)

There is a 128players branch already btw: https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/commits/128players

ddnet/ddnet

DDraceNetwork, a cooperative racing mod of Teeworlds - ddnet/ddnet

Accessing as a big int I mean

https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/commit/c5a191cfeb1cce72bf0b8f411bb8dfbcb0fcdac7 and https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/commit/919066e89f94cd8450caf6ce09c179d35650fb75

Working with 256 players · ddnet/ddnet@c5a191c

scoreboard · ddnet/ddnet@919066e

10:06

looks like I didn't do that much :D

The scoreboard prolly becomes a mess with more then 64

yea

I need my glasses to read 64 at native resolution :P

xxd

10:08

i mean who bothers to read all names in 128 servers anayways maybe set a max of 64

I'm not sure if you can get away with staying single-threaded

10:09

64 players already puts some CPUs above 50%, both client and server

Client can just clip a little, should help with the performance

at this point just do unlimited player numbers

10:12

bit masks aren't really used IIRC

For server, yeah itd be tough for our weak servers

add some "policies" or whatever to call them instead

10:12

e.g. NOT_CLIENT(id), TEAM(nr), EVERYONE

Unlimited players would be a lot of work with hard to predict performance

10:13

Lots of arrays of size MAX_CLIENT to change to vectors

10:13

Would mean adding a whole lot of stl code into the codebase

that's more performant than arrays, probably

feel free to add stl code

e.g. we're wasting a shitton of memory in the server browser because we pretend every server has 64 clients

I highly doubt that the vectors are more performant then arrays

10:14

More memory efficient sure

10:14

At best they can match arrays in performance

they can be better because they know how large they are and we don't need to allocate so much memory

10:16

okay, not a lot by todays standards, but roughly 25MB are wasted in the server browser because we use arrays and not vector

10:16

(or a heap)

As I said, they are surely better in memory footprint

and thus better in performance, if stuff fits better together

Learath2: but then you end up caching lots of useless memory and that hurts performance

Also maybe O(1) insertions depending on implementation

10:18

@heinrich5991 hmm I wouldnt really call a lower memory footprint better performance

see deen's message

I'm really skeptical that the bad cache performance is that significant, with these things you generally never know until you try

you were the one who called out vectors having bad performance

10:19

(i.e. you were starting the cycle count competition)

I didnt say they had bad performance, I said I doubt they perform better then arrays

10:21

E.g. I didnt state anything with any certainty, if I had evidence I'd call them out, as I dont I just state my hypothesis

oh okay, sorry ^^

And I base it on the fact that arrays are just blocks of memory we access directly while vectors are bound to have some stl overhead

stl has little (no?) overhead over malloc

10:22

afk lunch

I can at the very least imagine an extra comparison to check bounds of a vector

use [] instead of at() and you get no bounds check

If we are comparing cycles that is

10:25

Oh great, I got off at the wrong station

haha #dev too interesting

Hate the stupid metro in milan skipping stops when it feels like it

1

10:26

I mean they do announce it in italian, but I dont speak much italian let alone conductor italian

10:32

I guess I'll start looking at laptops

10:33

I sent that message like hours ago

10:33

Thanks mobile discord

the laptop one?

10:33

you mean discord messed up ther order of messages? or am i not getting the context here? xd

Discord didnt just mess up the order, i guess it had some exponential backoff, so it completely forgot about that message

XD

im late

11:16

c++20 best

11:16

spaceship operator

11:16

<=>

11:16

xd

1

Spaceship operator is sth i've been looking for for a long time

is it my botclient or your new sys that make my client lighttheme all the time @Learath2 ? :c

No idea wym

11:56

TIL there is nfc in passports

you can put your passport in the microwave and turn it on for a few seconds. Then you get to act suprised at the airport when they wonder why it's not scanning anymore and instead you get a 2 hour questionning for free :)

i will buy the new .dev domain to be cool

The machine readable stripe still would scan deen

12:49

But i guess itd be a redflag that the chip is fucked with no visible cracks

This is the story I was referring to btw: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/08/14/germans-are-so-scared-of-surveillance-they-microwave-their-id-cards/

ardadem

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #1811 Colored namespace for afk or paused players

This will be very very offtopic

13:45

But wtf is wrong with european people? Why cant they use toilets properly?

ur mixing something up with india

Seriously havent seen a single clean public bathroom in europe

ah wait they dotn have any toilets

I mean still better then turkey, but as the peak of civilization they should know better

i dont think europe is the peak civilisation

@Learath2 you are in italy right

13:48

when i went to rome, i found the city to be really really dirty

13:48

and so i hoped i came back to barcelona all days

@Ryozuki rn ye, but ive been all around eu

look at korea and japan. arent japans toilets known for being extravagant (edited)

Japans shittiest toilet was better then the toilet at my house

japan toilet has a stream of water going upwards ur ass

13:48

to clean it

13:48

lmao

thats just a bidet

nono

13:49

its a toilet

13:49

trust me

have u been in France

Korea too, fuckin train station toilet so clean you could sleep on it

idk im not really far into the toilet lore

@Im 'corneum they got all sort of tech

13:49

in their toilet

this is urs

@Im 'corneum asian countries use a toilet+bidet combination

13:49

this

13:49

they clean ur ass

13:49

xdd

lmao

do they make you gay and want to watch anime?

sure

in my life i encoutered 2 fully shat on, like absoulutely destroyed toilets. but i think the pictures are nsfw

Havent experienced such side effects

13:52

In highschool there was a guy that shat on the floor for a week straight

13:52

We never found out who it was

it looked lik ethe person couldnt hold it any longer and just opened the door and shat in the rough direction of the toilet

xdd

that sounds like the guy who didi it posted it on 4chan later as a greentext learath xd

Its the only interesting story i have from highschool thatd be worthy of greentexting

nothing like that happened at our school. one teacher got crazy and it was rumored she went into a mental hospital so the director came into every class and said it wasnt so. still seems kinda fishy to me (edited)

:D

typical philosopher teacher

We had teachers smoking with kids on lunch break

what age

Very illegal to smoke on school premises

bcs thats normal at my school too

13:56

but were all 18+

Highschoolers obv

13:56

Not 18+

ok

lmao

Its hot as shit and they are making us wait in a bus with no ac...

13:57

I hate this airport but it costs 70€ extra to fly out of the other one

take off your shirt sexy

13:59

Inb4 they deny my boarding coz no shirt

are male nipples illegal?

Female nipples arent illegal either

14:01

Being topless is inappropriate wear for a plane

just write somethign a NPC would say on your chest and if you get kicked off the airplane the media is on your side so you can fly for free and the airport director gets hanged publicly

Besides the airline reserves the right to deny you boarding for any reason as long as they refund you

wdym by NPC

Atleast in eu

sjw?

dont u know the npc meme

no

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqqwTgk8ri0

Prince of Zimbabwe

Orange Man Bad!

orange man bad means china bad?

no thats just a thing a NPC would say

14:03

for example

weird meme

14:03

i dont get it

14:03

murican politics

then i have sad news

14:04

ur a npc

wat

Trump is orange

14:04

Because of all the artificial tan

im not into murican politics*

14:04

xd

14:05

i just know that trump doesnt know what a dog is

14:05

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2018/01/does-donald-trump-know-what-a-dog-is-a-twitter-inv.html

Does Donald Trump Know What a Dog Is? A Paste Investigation

A serious look at whether our president understands the concept of 'dog.'

Aaand I get the old ladies next to me

14:09

They'll talk all the way to istanbul :(

14:11

All around meh day

just sleep

14:11

like drink 20 coffees less an hour and youre getting tired

I have too much coffee in my blood to sleep rn :/

take a sleeping pill

I wish, they dont give em otc in italy

14:13

You need a prescription

or use your chloroform for yourself this time xd

Shhh dont tell everyone

14:14

Did you know that knocking someone out with chloroform is ridiculously uneffective?

14:14

Especially through chloroform vapours from the lung

oh tell me more while i sign up on the fbi whistleblower website

It'd take 5-6 minutes to knock someone out

14:15

You'd have a better chance with hypoxia if you are strong enough

why is it hard to get sleeping pills. or why are they dangerous

They are apparently addictive

huh

Apparently they can cause the brain to stop regulating the sleep cycle properly and start relying on the drug

14:17

(More insomnia, more drugs, repeat)

arent there dealers on the airport

What kinda moron would deal drugs near an airport?

14:18

Its chock full of LEOs

who would buy drugs on an airport

ye that was dumb

lot of ppl

xd

no one would

maybe i meixed it up with train stations

coffee shop

i think if there ever was dealers on airports it stopped after 9/11

@Learath2 what I did is, I only added serverside support for 256p (even 512 and so on works, but gets laggy at about 300 if i remember correct). I have 64 teams only atm and what made this whole thing so complicated for me was that I wanted to have normal IDs to send to the client if there are <= 64 players. so the fakesnap stuff gets activated for ddnet clients whenever the client reaches 65 players OR there is one player with the ID over 63, so for example if there are 65 players and some disconnect but not the one with IP 64 or 65. With that, the ddnet client sees correct IDs and correct pausing in scoreboard until >64 players. I fixed the last crashbug for that some days ago (it made the client crash sometimes when you connect a dummy at >64 players)

16:17

I can make a pul request to support this, client support can come later

16:19

Then, old ddnet clients (all under version x) will get this, and new clients not, because they obviously support 256

16:20

One thing is ofc the teams, but we could disable teams on 256p servers for now, and only make some server 256. Then we can play Stronghold or some other maps on it

That is a good idea

An old lady told me about the energy in the universe

What do you mean

CLIENT CRASH

17:05

ALERT

17:05

i connected my dummy (i wanted) on stronghold 3 and my client crashed

17:05

was far

17:08

luckily timeout protection is on

fokkonaut

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #1812 Client crash on dummy connect

I was on Stronghold 3 and connected my dummy, before I even saw the view of the dummy the client crashed. When I entered the server, the dummy was there.

fokkonaut

[ddnet/ddnet] Pull request opened: #1813 Add support for 256 players

This will support 256 players on one server. The teams are still limited up to 63. Vanilla client is supported. When we finally have client support for 256 players, someone needs to set VERSION_DDNET_256_PLAYERS to that exact version, because the "system" that is used for then older DDNet clients will not be used. The system is, that until we reach the 65th player everything is the same as before. But once the server reaches 65 players, the FakeSnap is getting activated and the client will...

@fokkonaut i added 256 player support server side to my fng2 server, and i can tell you, you are missing quite a few things, e.g. the eventhandler has a flag that is limited to 64players, bcs of 64 bit, so you need a datatype that handles 256bit

Which would that be?

u need to create an own

19:53

256 bit doesnt exist in cpp standard

Ok then I will probably have no clue xd

u can also change the whole implementation, away from the flags

19:59

i hope its clear that 256 also uses much more CPU server side and client side, but if u only want it for ur own business ok ;D

Go up in this channel, it is discussed

20:00

For the DDNet servers

@deen could you as a hotfix disable teams on the tourney servers? So we have at least 64 slots. And the teamers can play on all the other servers

you should remove your dummy if you care about this

huh?

your dummy is blocking 1 slot?

my dummy is in t0

20:18

nd activly playing

but blocking a slot for someone

please dont troll

chiller always plays with dummy

I’m serious

20:19

if you care so much about blocked slots, then let someone have your dummy’s slot

true

i want to maximise the team size i am playing with

20:20

and most people want that

a real player can take over

i understand what you mean

20:20

and i can understand that it can be seen as unfair that i as one human block 2 slots

20:21

but that dummy is still worth more than a team player who could also play in his team on another server instead

what if its not a team player?

and it’s still selfish to block a slot with a dummy while complaining about teams blocking slots

yes it is selfish

20:22

but another topic

20:22

i would prefer 32 active players and 32 dummys in team 0 over 50 players in team 0 and 10 players in team

this isn't logical

why?

32 active players over 50 active players?

20:24

this is dumb

it is about playing with the biggest amount of tees possible

yeah but no

20:24

you are not playing with 32 useless tees

you are never playing with so many tees anyways

dummys arent useless lol

they are useless as long as u play with ur main

20:25

with other tees

there will never be 63 tees around you

we all play together tho @jao

20:25

in different groups

20:25

but if you dont kill you see most of the groups over time

ye but not together really

if its less groups you spend more time alone

Agreed disable dummy on maps like stronghold, back in time etc.

21:27

Those people are causing the stupids fails and then claim it wasn't their fault.

you can't disable dummies

@fokkonaut mh i'd like to see some serious benchmarks tho(frame consitency etc.), 256 is much more, weaker pcs will get to their limit, but qoute me where someone said 256 is no problem, i can't find it^^

i have never said its no problem

22:01

I just said they discussed to put it into ddnet

ah ok