DDraceNetwork - developer

DDraceNetwork

Development / developer

Development discussion. Logged to https://ddnet.tw/irclogs/ Connected with DDNet's IRC channel, Matrix room and GitHub repositories — IRC: #ddnet on Quakenet | Matrix: #ddnet-developer:matrix.org GitHub: https://github.com/ddnet

Between 2018-10-24 00:00:00Z and 2018-10-25 00:00:00Z

Sound awesome, will wait for this moment

@Deleted User would be fine for game core

05:48

lua is pretty damn fast, even without the support of huge companies behind it

just no, no scriptlanguage is fast

07:10

lua isnt even faster than javascript

ofc all scripting languages are way slower than "real" languages like c/c++ but the question is whether it actually affects the execution of the program

the problem is. the gamecore is part of the game loop, so it drastically effects execution (edited)

oh i guess i didnt see context.. if its running 50x/sec for every tee then it likely would affect execution lol

not only that, how would the interpolation work? e.g. destroying terrain with a rocket.. that would need to be handled with the lua scripts aswell

07:13

and then its every frame

https://youtu.be/MYsy_2sjO6Y?t=62

MineTee Mod [H-Client v2.1]

07:14

are u talking about a mod like this?

well the mod doesnt matter, it's more of a "how would the client know what to calculate without making it script too" probably heinrich thinks more like the gamecore changes only velocity etc. and these values are then interpolated/handled like now so basically only a small physic change that doesnt create alot of possibilities anyway. Still that would effect execution, bcs lua is easily 30-40 times slower than c (edited)

oh well in that case yeah i dont think replacing the core game elements with lua would help .. for any reason.. and it would also likely make it slower yes

a vm would deffs fit better, but even that is still 2x slower probs. It's actually a matter of, if it's worth it, but e.g. as i said a switch from the server, telling the client to use a scrippted core or smth. would give more controll to a possible mod, so not that bad. Still teeworlds deffs has other problems than supporting gamechanging mods xD

theres already alot of stuff possible with default client in the way of modding, so ye i think for now people can download custom clients if they want huge changes to a mod like the minetee one

yeah, i still miss a pokemon teeworlds mod, normally everything has a pokemon mod

07:26

atleast we have some race maps with pokemon pics on it xD

never played pokemon i miss working master-servers more than that xd

haha

07:28

well too sad we still depend on vanilla soo much, heinrich probs would have fixed so much already :/

rly? what would be fixed by now if it werent for the need to support vanilla

a http master server, would atleast block alot of the ddos i guess

why couldnt this be added anyway? vanilla servers would register to normal masters, ddnet servers would register to both

well true, if ddnet makes another tab for mods that support this protocol, defenitelly possible i'd say, but this goes too deep in the direction of ddnet admins, they can explain you why probably (edited)

07:31

maybe bcs it's still not fixing vanilla shit xD

ddnet already has its own master server tho lol, they even have a whole separate section for only ddnet servers so it wouldnt seem so strange to me if they added "servers with http master support" to that tab or something

07:31

ye but lol cant fix someone elses game

but isnt your problem that your fng server doesnt appear anywhere? how does it help a ddnet exclusive master server exists (edited)

07:32

i meant for all ofc

well ive had players everyday even since the attacks but yeah noticeably fewer players and some ppl say they cant see it except in favorites

07:33

and i figured because my server is ddnet based i could update it to include whatever http support ddnet adds

yeah, that's why it probs wouldn't be a bad first step, if 0.7.1 doesnt add this xDDDD

07:34

but if oy keeps up his work, vanilla can definetelly catch up a bit, and then it wouldn't be a bad time to just add 0.7.1 compability

ye it would be nice, if nothing else i want antiping in 0.7 its by far the best feature on ddnet

mhh, a real antiping would probs be nice

07:36

not with the 20ms tick offset

yeah but even the ddnet antiping is beter than nothing imo

indeed

wait what do u mean 20 ms offset?

1000/50

ive always wondered about ways to possibly improve antiping

i mean the ticks

ik a tick is 20ms but

07:37

why is it 1 tick late

well in theory it can

07:37

or nearly

07:38

basically if your packet comes 1 microsecond too late ;~;

is this why antiping looks "jumpy"

nah that's a matter of the ping

07:39

100ms can't predict AD movement

07:39

e.g. pressing both keys whole time xD

07:39

100 ms <- ping

i play with 120ping always and i think antiping does a pretty good job tbf

07:39

maybe its different for precise movemnts

07:40

also totally irrelevant but do u understand what IntraGameTick is for? o_o

yeah, but it's like, do you feel a difference in 60hz and 144hz. you just notice it's not perfect xD

07:40

it's the interpolation

never used 144hz lul

it feels insanly better imo

its more like noticing the difference between vsync and no vsync, i cant see it but i can feel it

i have 144hz

intra is like the millseconds you have passed since the last tick

u cant go back to 60hz peasant

ikr xd

ah thats what i thought thx

07:41

@Ryozuki

its not that expensive

07:41

well idk

well theoretically you won't be much better between 100hz and 200hz in a game like teeworlds, since its only 50 ticks anyway. tho i think our brain is much better, when it has realistic movements, independend of the reaction it could make

the way ive heard it explained is that higher fps makes it more likely that the game has a new frame drawn by the time the monitor refreshes because frames arent generated at a consistent rate

07:43

so even if it only refreshes/ticks 50-60x/sec having higher fps can still make a difference

yes, in the end we could basically discuss, can you feel the difference of 1ms.. and then i would say, we might be able to see it indeed, but that probably isn't game breaking for anyone. actually an interesting topic, bcs ppl always say "we can't do this and that", and 10 years later they are like. dude who says 1ms is no difference xD

well i dont think its possible to see 1ms difference

as ryo basically said, once 144hz you never want 60hz again, because then u on the other side

but it is definitely possible to feel it

the dark side

07:47

yeah

07:47

talking about time is really time consuming :/

⏳

1

1

Pretty late but I'm sure you can get away with having a huge portion of the game loop in lua. Love2D works pretty well and if you ever encounter a performance issue (interpolations) you can offload it to native code with a bridge like React Native has. A VM running optimized bytecode I doubt you could tell apart from benchmarking it.

11:33

Native/scripted hybrid solutions are getting more and more common nowadays and a lot of the performance issues with them are getting solved.

11:34

Regarding improving anti ping, can anyone even read the anti ping code?

Dumb question xd

where is the antiping code anyway

wtf

11:53

A developer ASK for that

11:53

Pls remove dev group

@Bojidar Marinov use search function :)

13:04

i believe in gameclient.cpp but im not sure

last time I heard it was spread all over the place

@Deleted User what do you base your reasoning on?

13:17

I also had that phase where I thought that every script language must be horribly slow

They are pretty darn slow, but doesn't mean they aren't useful or they aren't suitable for anything

[quakenet] <breton> i use ddnet client and all ddnet servers are listed for me

14:37

[quakenet] <breton> while the "internet" tab with usual tw is down

14:37

[quakenet] <breton> can i get my server with infclass to the list of ddnet servers?

Just put them in ur favorite

[quakenet] <breton> but others won't do so

14:39

[quakenet] <breton> when i said "my server" i meant "a server that i host"

ikr

14:41

well if ur server isn't a ddnet server i guess they can't make this

@heinrich5991 a real time application where performance matters.. Like in games, there is no argument for performance of script languages vs compiled stuff doesn't matter. Sure it seems like nobody needs his 6k fps in teeworlds, but in the end partially implementing scripts will easily kill 1k of that frames. Script languages are good when they have a single task, because ez to use and debug

Nobody needs 5k fps in any game. We could just render a black screen at a couple thousand fps aswell. We cut from the fps to add things to the game

16:46

AAA games take this all the way to the end where they optimise games to run at no lower then a certain fps target and anything after that is free ball

16:46

Especially on consoles like the PS3 where they optimise to exactly 30fps

16:47

As long as the game looks fluent for everyone it doesn't matter

we dont need more pfs, we need stabilized fps

1

this is it no joke

17:06

frame times are the problem

17:06

microstutter and stuff like that is the worst for a APM game

17:12

@heinrich5991 LUA vs JS in various alogs https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/faster/lua-node.html C vs JS in various algos https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/faster/gcc-node.html even if they specific algorithms, they wouldnt perform much better in other scenarios (edited)

Lua vs Node js - Which programs are faster? | Computer Language ...

Lua Node js - Which programs are faster?

C gcc vs Node js - Which programs are faster? | Computer Languag...

C gcc Node js - Which programs are faster?

@Deleted User lua is heavily used in many games without problems that I'm aware of

17:53

e.g. check out factorio

but factorio or what ever is probs a simulation

hm?

its a simulation game isnt it?

17:56

but not an action game like teeworlds (edited)

PathosEthosLogos

[ddnet/ddnet-scripts] Issue opened: #11 readme.md file?

Will there be any documentation?

19:17

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #1358 Telegun-blocker should be a telegun-activator

It makes more sense to specifically activate telegun on tiles than to specifically deactivate it.

As a player it's easier to find flashy spots than to find plain ones
The common usage of the feature seem to be parts that work by teleporting to specific spots. To cheat-proof them, everything else needs to be blocked off. This requires way more tiles than activating those specific spots.
Same goes for parts that work by teleporting to other tees or the air (with laser)
The tile ma...

19:24

[ddnet-web:master] 1 new commit

94004b4 Add NoHack2Win as DDRace mod - 12pm

19:25

[ddnet-web:master] 1 new commit

2652188 Oops - 12pm

@Deleted User Factorio is a game

19:26

not a simulation

19:27

a really good game, with so many features

@Ryozuki using > you can produce quotes on github

i see

@Deleted User well... a simulation game ofc

20:12

It'S NOT A SIMULATION

20:12

GAME

20:12

dude

20:12

its a simulation game

20:12

did you ever play it? (edited)

20:12

i googled

20:12

play it

20:12

why should wikipedia lie

20:12

you won't say it's a simulation game

20:12

tell me what does it simulate

20:13

NOTHING

20:13

well some work processes it seems

20:13

yeah clicking 3 times to add items in a machine is simulating

>Factorio is a real-time strategy video game in development by Wube Software.

technically, all games are simulation (edited)

>Categories: […] Construction and management simulation games […]

20:14

so the evidence is kinda mixed

well anyway

20:14

@heinrich5991 I've already played it, I don't know why they think it's a simulation game

20:15

i would say event based scripting is ok, like you finish a quest and some script does some things. but i wouldn't add it to the physics in an action game

20:15

i doubt factorio needs as good fps as tw or csgo (edited)

20:16

if you like to add it to any game do as you want. i just wouldn't like to see it in teeworlds

20:16

factorio = ❤

20:16

+ mods

20:16

= <3<3<3

20:16

@Deleted User u nub u play solo

20:16

hahaha u have no friends

20:16

xD

20:17

I HAve fRienDs

20:17

explain me the word FRIENDS

20:17

!!

20:17

caughed

20:17

Image attachment

20:17

this is a friend

20:17

xD

20:18

he said me he isnt ur friend

20:18

let me ASK HIM, cuz of u I'll have to annoy him while he's coding (edited)

20:19

he said ye i'm his friand

screen or obvious fake (edited)

@Deleted User give us a proof!

20:23

Image attachment

20:23

TAKE DAT

20:23

That's gay as fuck

xD

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #1359 Make teleporting to tees with telegun more reasonable

Currently you will always be ported to the middle (?) of the tee, no matter where you hit it. Imo this behaviour doesn't feel right, especially since it shoots you out of the tee. Instead it should be the same as with tiles, i.e. teleport to where you hit the tee. I don't know if Pharice 2 uses the current behaviour, might break the map.

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #1360 Add an option to keep movement when teleporting with telegun

This would make the feature more dynamic and probably enable cool new parts, especially for solo maps. Not sure what the best implementation would be tho.

[ddnet/ddnet] Issue opened: #1361 Telegun laser should act based on the last tile it bounced off

Currently it seems like it doesn't teleport if it hit a telegun-blocker during its lifetime. Imo it should always teleport as long as the last tile it hit was a non-blocked one/telegun-activator.

docker for windows is seriously such a mess....

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